…a Mafia wiseguy called “Joe the Plumber” is saying, “I’m gonna have t’get a new f*ckin'” nickname…”
PAD
319 comments on “And somewhere at this very moment…”
As far as I know, Jason, it’s a Southern US thing. Fried chicken and watermelon were specifically Southern food back in the bad old days, and for some reason African-Americans became associated with them. I believe that collared greens are also in that group as well.
I don’t know the exact reason, but that’s how the bigoted cookie crumbled.
Of course, I’m Canadian as well so I may well be way off-base, and this is just my understanding.
Can anyone actually explain the fried chicken and watermelon thing to me?
I think a lot of it was from advertising–you can find all kinds of antique posters and ads that have characters in blackface eating watermelon. Some of the all black movies and shorts also used watermelon and fried chicken and rolling dice as basically shorthand for black. Since these things almost never get shown any more the source has been lost to most.
(Sidenote to Jerry–your turn! heh.)
Can anyone actually explain the fried chicken and watermelon thing to me?
I think a lot of it was from advertising–you can find all kinds of antique posters and ads that have characters in blackface eating watermelon. Some of the all black movies and shorts also used watermelon and fried chicken and rolling dice as basically shorthand for black. Since these things almost never get shown any more the source has been lost to most.
(Sidenote to Jerry–your turn! heh.)
How did these particular delicious foods become a racist symbol?
What’s “delicious” is an experience to a privileged ethnicity, but is portrayed as a commodity for people who don’t know any better. Like they get the kind of unwholesome stock-trading-floor excitement out of it.
If you lock-in the stereotyping, the racist is just going to switch the stereotype around and deny the racism, not unlike the shinebox scene in Goodfellas. Who the hëll kills a guy for referring to a shinebox, right?
How did these particular delicious foods become a racist symbol?
What’s “delicious” is an experience to a privileged ethnicity, but is portrayed as a commodity for people who don’t know any better. Like they get the kind of unwholesome stock-trading-floor excitement out of it.
If you lock-in the stereotyping, the racist is just going to switch the stereotype around and deny the racism, not unlike the shinebox scene in Goodfellas. Who the hëll kills a guy for referring to a shinebox, right?
I’m also definitively “amused” at that woman’s logical progression of “What kind of bill would bear Obama’s face? A food stamp!” and then she insists, “But I didn’t see anything wrong with it, because I’m not a racist!”
ALL ABOARD THE FAIL TRAIN!
Listen, lady, when your black colleague is shielding her teenage daughter’s eyes from your choice of imagery, that’s not a good sign.
I wonder if fried chicken took off in the South because the cooking process creates a layer of oil and grease that offers some protection against decay (important in the days before refrigerators. Similarly, Southern ice tea has enough sugar to wipe out any bacteria, as well as your pancreas. And chitlens are so nasty that even fungi flee at the sight of them.
I wonder if fried chicken took off in the South because the cooking process creates a layer of oil and grease that offers some protection against decay (important in the days before refrigerators. Similarly, Southern ice tea has enough sugar to wipe out any bacteria, as well as your pancreas. And chitlens are so nasty that even fungi flee at the sight of them.
Chitlins I actually do know the origin of. The white people ate most of the meat on a pig, but wouldn’t touch the intestines. They left it for the slaves, who fried it up into chitlins. So all conotations with chitlins are earned, since it was litterally the stuff that slaves ate because their owners considered themselves too good for it.
Chitlins I actually do know the origin of. The white people ate most of the meat on a pig, but wouldn’t touch the intestines. They left it for the slaves, who fried it up into chitlins. So all conotations with chitlins are earned, since it was litterally the stuff that slaves ate because their owners considered themselves too good for it.
Chitlins are one of those foods that taste better than they smell. They smell exactly like boiled sneakers. You might say “Right, smart guy, like you know what a boiled sneaker would smell like.” Well, I do. And it’s just like chitlins.
Keep in mind that the fact that chitlins taste better than what one might expect from the odor is in no way an endorsement. Also, a lot of hot sauce helps. In fact, with enough hot sauce even a boiled sneaker can probably be palatable.
Chitlins are one of those foods that taste better than they smell. They smell exactly like boiled sneakers. You might say “Right, smart guy, like you know what a boiled sneaker would smell like.” Well, I do. And it’s just like chitlins.
Keep in mind that the fact that chitlins taste better than what one might expect from the odor is in no way an endorsement. Also, a lot of hot sauce helps. In fact, with enough hot sauce even a boiled sneaker can probably be palatable.
“They smell exactly like boiled sneakers.”
No, there are no sneakers in the world that smell that bad when boiled.
(Sidenote to Jerry–your turn! heh.)
I hate you too, Bill.
“They smell exactly like boiled sneakers.”
No, there are no sneakers in the world that smell that bad when boiled.
(Sidenote to Jerry–your turn! heh.)
I hate you too, Bill.
I’m with my cousin whose response to the whole Joe the Plumber thing was that she “wants to know what Bob the Builder thinks.”
I’m with my cousin whose response to the whole Joe the Plumber thing was that she “wants to know what Bob the Builder thinks.”
I’m with my cousin whose response to the whole Joe the Plumber thing was that she “wants to know what Bob the Builder thinks.”
I’m with my cousin whose response to the whole Joe the Plumber thing was that she “wants to know what Bob the Builder thinks.”
I’m with my cousin whose response to the whole Joe the Plumber thing was that she “wants to know what Bob the Builder thinks.”
“Can anyone actually explain the fried chicken and watermelon thing to me?” “I don’t know either.”
Jason and Megan,
It has a lot to do with the images that were created in the late decades of the 1800s and early decades of the 1900s meant to portray blacks as simple minded and beneath the level of whites in America. For a long time there the many of the visual depictions of blacks involved people in blackface acting like simpletons and the food of choice for these depictions was fried chicken and (especially) watermelon. I’m not sure how those got chosen to be used to the degree they were, but they were the ones that got the most play.
And, of course, blacks being depicted as less intelligent and less mannered than white; they were almost never shown eating watermelons without burying their faces deeply into it, sending juice and seeds everywhere and covering themselves in it before pulling their heads up and giving the type over-exaggerated smile that the blackface makeup was designed for.
After a very short while these things became symbols and shorthand in the language of bigots to demean and degrade blacks as a race. It still exists today in older, Southern white circles as evidenced a few years back from when an older white golfer remarked to the press that while Tiger Woods was playing their tournament he could “come on up to the big house” and have some “fried chicken and watermelon” while using a very insulting tone of voice.
“Can anyone actually explain the fried chicken and watermelon thing to me?” “I don’t know either.”
Jason and Megan,
It has a lot to do with the images that were created in the late decades of the 1800s and early decades of the 1900s meant to portray blacks as simple minded and beneath the level of whites in America. For a long time there the many of the visual depictions of blacks involved people in blackface acting like simpletons and the food of choice for these depictions was fried chicken and (especially) watermelon. I’m not sure how those got chosen to be used to the degree they were, but they were the ones that got the most play.
And, of course, blacks being depicted as less intelligent and less mannered than white; they were almost never shown eating watermelons without burying their faces deeply into it, sending juice and seeds everywhere and covering themselves in it before pulling their heads up and giving the type over-exaggerated smile that the blackface makeup was designed for.
After a very short while these things became symbols and shorthand in the language of bigots to demean and degrade blacks as a race. It still exists today in older, Southern white circles as evidenced a few years back from when an older white golfer remarked to the press that while Tiger Woods was playing their tournament he could “come on up to the big house” and have some “fried chicken and watermelon” while using a very insulting tone of voice.
I think the chicken thing came about because slaves were allowed to raise chickens but not other farm animals. Similarly, watermellon might have been something that slaves were allowed to grow on their own since it’s a low maintanance crop that would not interfere with the labor they were forced to do.
So watermellon and chicken might have made perfect sense to people back in the day as overt references to slavery, a link that would be missed today.
I think the chicken thing came about because slaves were allowed to raise chickens but not other farm animals. Similarly, watermellon might have been something that slaves were allowed to grow on their own since it’s a low maintanance crop that would not interfere with the labor they were forced to do.
So watermellon and chicken might have made perfect sense to people back in the day as overt references to slavery, a link that would be missed today.
or a non-Faux version that Obama’s people are waiting till the day before the election to release LOL
I’ve seen a couple of things today about “Joe the Plumber” which included his last name and mentioned that he doesn’t appear to be registered to vote.
Apparently he is; apparently they had identified him incorrectly as someone with the same or similar last name.
Must have been registered by ACORN. DASTARDLY LEFTIST PLOT TO DESTROY THE FABRIC OF THIS COUNTRY!
I’ve seen a couple of things today about “Joe the Plumber” which included his last name and mentioned that he doesn’t appear to be registered to vote.
Apparently he is; apparently they had identified him incorrectly as someone with the same or similar last name.
Must have been registered by ACORN. DASTARDLY LEFTIST PLOT TO DESTROY THE FABRIC OF THIS COUNTRY!
Okay, I checked with my wife, who (a) is black, and (b) has a degree in Cross-Cultural Studies. She tells me that fried chicken became associated with blacks because the high-falutin’ masters in the Big House thought chicken was a “country food”, and thus beneath them; the slaves and sharecroppers fried the chicken because it kept longer that way.
As for watermelon, it was widely grown in the region, and occasionally would disappear from a field (most likely in the care of a preteen lad). Of course, everyone knew that them there darkies was all natural thieves, so they musta tooken it!
And thus does a stereotype grow, and make a very nice, well-brought-up young lady nervous about eating some of her favorite foods in public…
Okay, I checked with my wife, who (a) is black, and (b) has a degree in Cross-Cultural Studies. She tells me that fried chicken became associated with blacks because the high-falutin’ masters in the Big House thought chicken was a “country food”, and thus beneath them; the slaves and sharecroppers fried the chicken because it kept longer that way.
As for watermelon, it was widely grown in the region, and occasionally would disappear from a field (most likely in the care of a preteen lad). Of course, everyone knew that them there darkies was all natural thieves, so they musta tooken it!
And thus does a stereotype grow, and make a very nice, well-brought-up young lady nervous about eating some of her favorite foods in public…
Everyone seems to be talking about the various “Kill him” quotes. The Palinism that gets me is where people were yelling during a speech, which she took as a protest. She talked about how the soldiers were fighting so they could protest. What were the “protestors” yelling?
“LOUDER!”
They couldn’t hear her. Which people behind her told her, yet she still kept on…
“Or a fan of Brigadoon which absolutely rules.”
I knew we were friends for a good reason.
Oh, and Tim–Don’t mock Flash. Or I’ll do what Jerry threatened to do, but remember–Brian’s seven now. They’ve been fermenting!!
Everyone seems to be talking about the various “Kill him” quotes. The Palinism that gets me is where people were yelling during a speech, which she took as a protest. She talked about how the soldiers were fighting so they could protest. What were the “protestors” yelling?
“LOUDER!”
They couldn’t hear her. Which people behind her told her, yet she still kept on…
“Or a fan of Brigadoon which absolutely rules.”
I knew we were friends for a good reason.
Oh, and Tim–Don’t mock Flash. Or I’ll do what Jerry threatened to do, but remember–Brian’s seven now. They’ve been fermenting!!
Right, right. Because after “The Godfather,” “Godfather Part II,” “Godfather Part III”, “Goodfellas,” “Married to the Mob,” “The Sopranos,” “Analyze This,” “Analyze That,” not to mention countless real life trials involving criminals with similar nicknames, the “stereotype” was this close to dying off. And then I make a joke and suddenly it gains new life.
Please.
PAD
No, by all means keep perpetuating a stereotype and go a step further by acting indignant when you’re called on it. It speaks volumes.
mister_pj, it was a joke. It was obviously a joke and it was not an offensive one. You’re coming across as oversensitive.
mister_pj, it was a joke. It was obviously a joke and it was not an offensive one. You’re coming across as oversensitive.
The Sopranos was a documentary.
The Sopranos was a documentary.
mister pj, on what grounds is this perpetuating a stereotype? Tony is not an exclusively Italian name. Nothing in PAD’s post was specifically Italian. The Mob does exist. They do tend to have colorful nicknames.
Unless one takes any and all references to the Mafia as being aimed at Italians…in which case who is exactly perpetuating a stereotype???
mister pj, on what grounds is this perpetuating a stereotype? Tony is not an exclusively Italian name. Nothing in PAD’s post was specifically Italian. The Mob does exist. They do tend to have colorful nicknames.
Unless one takes any and all references to the Mafia as being aimed at Italians…in which case who is exactly perpetuating a stereotype???
I’m not expressing indignation. That would require my being angry. I’m not angry because the accusation is too absurd to get angry over.
I just think you’re just being ridiculous. And you can stop sending me private e-mails about this as well. If you want to press your case, do it here, but don’t waste my time or clutter my e-mail box with this PC nonsense.
PAD
I’m not expressing indignation. That would require my being angry. I’m not angry because the accusation is too absurd to get angry over.
I just think you’re just being ridiculous. And you can stop sending me private e-mails about this as well. If you want to press your case, do it here, but don’t waste my time or clutter my e-mail box with this PC nonsense.
PAD
Oversensitive, I like that.
Let me tell… you can be Polish and be on the receiving of a Polish joke, or Jewish and be on receiving end of a Jewish joke, or Irish, or Black or Spanish or any other ethnicity. Tell me when it’s YOU or YOUR ETHNIC GROUP if you still find it funny.
Maybe it’s not offensive to someone who isn’t of Italian descent but, this whole Italians=Mafia thing is a load of crap.
I pulled this off of Wikipedia:
To this day, Italian Americans are frequently associated with organized crime, and New York in the minds of many Americans, largely due to pervasive media stereotyping, a number of popular gangster movies (such as The Godfather and Goodfellas) and television series such as The Sopranos. A Zogby International survey revealed that 78 percent of teenagers 13 to 18 associated Italian Americans with either criminal activity or blue-collar work. A survey by the Response Analysis Corporation reported that 74 percent of adult Americans believe most Italian Americans have “some connection” to organized crime.
It has nothing to do with being over sensitive as much as being tired of this bullsh*t and finally calling people on it.
mister_pj: Tell me when it’s YOU or YOUR ETHNIC GROUP if you still find it funny.
PAD didn’t make a joke about an ethnic group. He made a joke about the mafia.
You’re the one insulting Italian Americans by implying that any comment about the mafia is a comment about Italian Americans.
THAT is why oversensitivity (PC bûllšhìŧ) is bad.
mister_pj: Tell me when it’s YOU or YOUR ETHNIC GROUP if you still find it funny.
PAD didn’t make a joke about an ethnic group. He made a joke about the mafia.
You’re the one insulting Italian Americans by implying that any comment about the mafia is a comment about Italian Americans.
THAT is why oversensitivity (PC bûllšhìŧ) is bad.
“Let me tell… you can be Polish and be on the receiving of a Polish joke, or Jewish and be on receiving end of a Jewish joke, or Irish, or Black or Spanish or any other ethnicity. Tell me when it’s YOU or YOUR ETHNIC GROUP if you still find it funny.”
“To this day, Italian Americans are frequently associated with organized crime, and New York in the minds of many Americans,”
I think it is necessary to distinguish between two issues here.
First, popular culture in general traffics in stereotypes of Italians, Irish, blacks, Germans, hispanics, arabs, Jews, asians, rednecks etc. in jokes, movies, TV etc. But these stereotypes are usually not malicious, and I don’t think the writers and artists who use them actually think that all members of the group in question actually fit the stereotype, nor do they use them in order to say anything about a whole group. Stereotypes by there very nature are an exaggeration, a focusing on one aspect to the point of absurdity.
Yet, if we look at the Wikipedia quote, it would seem that too many people take these stereotypes and apply them without the ability to distinguish between the stereotype and reality.
What does that mean?
“Let me tell… you can be Polish and be on the receiving of a Polish joke, or Jewish and be on receiving end of a Jewish joke, or Irish, or Black or Spanish or any other ethnicity. Tell me when it’s YOU or YOUR ETHNIC GROUP if you still find it funny.”
“To this day, Italian Americans are frequently associated with organized crime, and New York in the minds of many Americans,”
I think it is necessary to distinguish between two issues here.
First, popular culture in general traffics in stereotypes of Italians, Irish, blacks, Germans, hispanics, arabs, Jews, asians, rednecks etc. in jokes, movies, TV etc. But these stereotypes are usually not malicious, and I don’t think the writers and artists who use them actually think that all members of the group in question actually fit the stereotype, nor do they use them in order to say anything about a whole group. Stereotypes by there very nature are an exaggeration, a focusing on one aspect to the point of absurdity.
Yet, if we look at the Wikipedia quote, it would seem that too many people take these stereotypes and apply them without the ability to distinguish between the stereotype and reality.
What does that mean?
And, of course, Joe is such a stereotypically Italian name…
PJ, you may be unaware of this, but most of this country’s minorities have, at one point or another in their assimilation into the Coll- er, I mean the American Melting Pot, had associations with organized crime. The Irish gangs in New York were pretty much overthrown by the Mafia; the Triads are still in evidence on the US West Coast; fortunately for us all, the Bloods and Crips fell to fighting among themselves before they could become much of a force on the national crime scene.
“Joe the Plumber” could in fact be a member of almost any of these organizations (“Joe” seems an unlikely name for a Triad member). It is only your own hypersensitivity that insists this is a slur against Italians. Way to perpetuate a stereotype, mister_pj.
And, of course, Joe is such a stereotypically Italian name…
PJ, you may be unaware of this, but most of this country’s minorities have, at one point or another in their assimilation into the Coll- er, I mean the American Melting Pot, had associations with organized crime. The Irish gangs in New York were pretty much overthrown by the Mafia; the Triads are still in evidence on the US West Coast; fortunately for us all, the Bloods and Crips fell to fighting among themselves before they could become much of a force on the national crime scene.
“Joe the Plumber” could in fact be a member of almost any of these organizations (“Joe” seems an unlikely name for a Triad member). It is only your own hypersensitivity that insists this is a slur against Italians. Way to perpetuate a stereotype, mister_pj.
Okay…
Let’s say for the sake of argument I’m misreading things.
Mmmm?
Interesting then the examples that were pulled up, don’t you think:
Right, right. Because after “The Godfather,” “Godfather Part II,” “Godfather Part III”, “Goodfellas,” “Married to the Mob,” “The Sopranos,” “Analyze This,” “Analyze That,” not to mention countless real life trials involving criminals with similar nicknames, the “stereotype” was this close to dying off. And then I make a joke and suddenly it gains new life.
All those movies that were used as examples? They’re about Laotians, Swedes and Namabians?
Oh!
Before it becomes an issue, in my haste I misspelled Namibia. No slight against Namibians was intended.
Oh!
Before it becomes an issue, in my haste I misspelled Namibia. No slight against Namibians was intended.
Do you find all these movies and TV shows offensive toward Italians?
• 
As far as I know, Jason, it’s a Southern US thing. Fried chicken and watermelon were specifically Southern food back in the bad old days, and for some reason African-Americans became associated with them. I believe that collared greens are also in that group as well.
I don’t know the exact reason, but that’s how the bigoted cookie crumbled.
Of course, I’m Canadian as well so I may well be way off-base, and this is just my understanding.
Can anyone actually explain the fried chicken and watermelon thing to me?
I think a lot of it was from advertising–you can find all kinds of antique posters and ads that have characters in blackface eating watermelon. Some of the all black movies and shorts also used watermelon and fried chicken and rolling dice as basically shorthand for black. Since these things almost never get shown any more the source has been lost to most.
(Sidenote to Jerry–your turn! heh.)
Can anyone actually explain the fried chicken and watermelon thing to me?
I think a lot of it was from advertising–you can find all kinds of antique posters and ads that have characters in blackface eating watermelon. Some of the all black movies and shorts also used watermelon and fried chicken and rolling dice as basically shorthand for black. Since these things almost never get shown any more the source has been lost to most.
(Sidenote to Jerry–your turn! heh.)
What’s “delicious” is an experience to a privileged ethnicity, but is portrayed as a commodity for people who don’t know any better. Like they get the kind of unwholesome stock-trading-floor excitement out of it.
If you lock-in the stereotyping, the racist is just going to switch the stereotype around and deny the racism, not unlike the shinebox scene in Goodfellas. Who the hëll kills a guy for referring to a shinebox, right?
What’s “delicious” is an experience to a privileged ethnicity, but is portrayed as a commodity for people who don’t know any better. Like they get the kind of unwholesome stock-trading-floor excitement out of it.
If you lock-in the stereotyping, the racist is just going to switch the stereotype around and deny the racism, not unlike the shinebox scene in Goodfellas. Who the hëll kills a guy for referring to a shinebox, right?
I’m also definitively “amused” at that woman’s logical progression of “What kind of bill would bear Obama’s face? A food stamp!” and then she insists, “But I didn’t see anything wrong with it, because I’m not a racist!”
ALL ABOARD THE FAIL TRAIN!
Listen, lady, when your black colleague is shielding her teenage daughter’s eyes from your choice of imagery, that’s not a good sign.
I wonder if fried chicken took off in the South because the cooking process creates a layer of oil and grease that offers some protection against decay (important in the days before refrigerators. Similarly, Southern ice tea has enough sugar to wipe out any bacteria, as well as your pancreas. And chitlens are so nasty that even fungi flee at the sight of them.
I wonder if fried chicken took off in the South because the cooking process creates a layer of oil and grease that offers some protection against decay (important in the days before refrigerators. Similarly, Southern ice tea has enough sugar to wipe out any bacteria, as well as your pancreas. And chitlens are so nasty that even fungi flee at the sight of them.
Chitlins I actually do know the origin of. The white people ate most of the meat on a pig, but wouldn’t touch the intestines. They left it for the slaves, who fried it up into chitlins. So all conotations with chitlins are earned, since it was litterally the stuff that slaves ate because their owners considered themselves too good for it.
Chitlins I actually do know the origin of. The white people ate most of the meat on a pig, but wouldn’t touch the intestines. They left it for the slaves, who fried it up into chitlins. So all conotations with chitlins are earned, since it was litterally the stuff that slaves ate because their owners considered themselves too good for it.
Chitlins are one of those foods that taste better than they smell. They smell exactly like boiled sneakers. You might say “Right, smart guy, like you know what a boiled sneaker would smell like.” Well, I do. And it’s just like chitlins.
Keep in mind that the fact that chitlins taste better than what one might expect from the odor is in no way an endorsement. Also, a lot of hot sauce helps. In fact, with enough hot sauce even a boiled sneaker can probably be palatable.
Chitlins are one of those foods that taste better than they smell. They smell exactly like boiled sneakers. You might say “Right, smart guy, like you know what a boiled sneaker would smell like.” Well, I do. And it’s just like chitlins.
Keep in mind that the fact that chitlins taste better than what one might expect from the odor is in no way an endorsement. Also, a lot of hot sauce helps. In fact, with enough hot sauce even a boiled sneaker can probably be palatable.
“They smell exactly like boiled sneakers.”
No, there are no sneakers in the world that smell that bad when boiled.
(Sidenote to Jerry–your turn! heh.)
I hate you too, Bill.
“They smell exactly like boiled sneakers.”
No, there are no sneakers in the world that smell that bad when boiled.
(Sidenote to Jerry–your turn! heh.)
I hate you too, Bill.
I’m with my cousin whose response to the whole Joe the Plumber thing was that she “wants to know what Bob the Builder thinks.”
I’m with my cousin whose response to the whole Joe the Plumber thing was that she “wants to know what Bob the Builder thinks.”
I’m with my cousin whose response to the whole Joe the Plumber thing was that she “wants to know what Bob the Builder thinks.”
I’m with my cousin whose response to the whole Joe the Plumber thing was that she “wants to know what Bob the Builder thinks.”
I’m with my cousin whose response to the whole Joe the Plumber thing was that she “wants to know what Bob the Builder thinks.”
“Can anyone actually explain the fried chicken and watermelon thing to me?”
“I don’t know either.”
Jason and Megan,
It has a lot to do with the images that were created in the late decades of the 1800s and early decades of the 1900s meant to portray blacks as simple minded and beneath the level of whites in America. For a long time there the many of the visual depictions of blacks involved people in blackface acting like simpletons and the food of choice for these depictions was fried chicken and (especially) watermelon. I’m not sure how those got chosen to be used to the degree they were, but they were the ones that got the most play.
And, of course, blacks being depicted as less intelligent and less mannered than white; they were almost never shown eating watermelons without burying their faces deeply into it, sending juice and seeds everywhere and covering themselves in it before pulling their heads up and giving the type over-exaggerated smile that the blackface makeup was designed for.
After a very short while these things became symbols and shorthand in the language of bigots to demean and degrade blacks as a race. It still exists today in older, Southern white circles as evidenced a few years back from when an older white golfer remarked to the press that while Tiger Woods was playing their tournament he could “come on up to the big house” and have some “fried chicken and watermelon” while using a very insulting tone of voice.
“Can anyone actually explain the fried chicken and watermelon thing to me?”
“I don’t know either.”
Jason and Megan,
It has a lot to do with the images that were created in the late decades of the 1800s and early decades of the 1900s meant to portray blacks as simple minded and beneath the level of whites in America. For a long time there the many of the visual depictions of blacks involved people in blackface acting like simpletons and the food of choice for these depictions was fried chicken and (especially) watermelon. I’m not sure how those got chosen to be used to the degree they were, but they were the ones that got the most play.
And, of course, blacks being depicted as less intelligent and less mannered than white; they were almost never shown eating watermelons without burying their faces deeply into it, sending juice and seeds everywhere and covering themselves in it before pulling their heads up and giving the type over-exaggerated smile that the blackface makeup was designed for.
After a very short while these things became symbols and shorthand in the language of bigots to demean and degrade blacks as a race. It still exists today in older, Southern white circles as evidenced a few years back from when an older white golfer remarked to the press that while Tiger Woods was playing their tournament he could “come on up to the big house” and have some “fried chicken and watermelon” while using a very insulting tone of voice.
I think the chicken thing came about because slaves were allowed to raise chickens but not other farm animals. Similarly, watermellon might have been something that slaves were allowed to grow on their own since it’s a low maintanance crop that would not interfere with the labor they were forced to do.
So watermellon and chicken might have made perfect sense to people back in the day as overt references to slavery, a link that would be missed today.
I think the chicken thing came about because slaves were allowed to raise chickens but not other farm animals. Similarly, watermellon might have been something that slaves were allowed to grow on their own since it’s a low maintanance crop that would not interfere with the labor they were forced to do.
So watermellon and chicken might have made perfect sense to people back in the day as overt references to slavery, a link that would be missed today.
or a non-Faux version that Obama’s people are waiting till the day before the election to release LOL
I’ve seen a couple of things today about “Joe the Plumber” which included his last name and mentioned that he doesn’t appear to be registered to vote.
Apparently he is; apparently they had identified him incorrectly as someone with the same or similar last name.
Must have been registered by ACORN. DASTARDLY LEFTIST PLOT TO DESTROY THE FABRIC OF THIS COUNTRY!
I’ve seen a couple of things today about “Joe the Plumber” which included his last name and mentioned that he doesn’t appear to be registered to vote.
Apparently he is; apparently they had identified him incorrectly as someone with the same or similar last name.
Must have been registered by ACORN. DASTARDLY LEFTIST PLOT TO DESTROY THE FABRIC OF THIS COUNTRY!
Okay, I checked with my wife, who (a) is black, and (b) has a degree in Cross-Cultural Studies. She tells me that fried chicken became associated with blacks because the high-falutin’ masters in the Big House thought chicken was a “country food”, and thus beneath them; the slaves and sharecroppers fried the chicken because it kept longer that way.
As for watermelon, it was widely grown in the region, and occasionally would disappear from a field (most likely in the care of a preteen lad). Of course, everyone knew that them there darkies was all natural thieves, so they musta tooken it!
And thus does a stereotype grow, and make a very nice, well-brought-up young lady nervous about eating some of her favorite foods in public…
Okay, I checked with my wife, who (a) is black, and (b) has a degree in Cross-Cultural Studies. She tells me that fried chicken became associated with blacks because the high-falutin’ masters in the Big House thought chicken was a “country food”, and thus beneath them; the slaves and sharecroppers fried the chicken because it kept longer that way.
As for watermelon, it was widely grown in the region, and occasionally would disappear from a field (most likely in the care of a preteen lad). Of course, everyone knew that them there darkies was all natural thieves, so they musta tooken it!
And thus does a stereotype grow, and make a very nice, well-brought-up young lady nervous about eating some of her favorite foods in public…
Everyone seems to be talking about the various “Kill him” quotes. The Palinism that gets me is where people were yelling during a speech, which she took as a protest. She talked about how the soldiers were fighting so they could protest. What were the “protestors” yelling?
“LOUDER!”
They couldn’t hear her. Which people behind her told her, yet she still kept on…
“Or a fan of Brigadoon which absolutely rules.”
I knew we were friends for a good reason.
Oh, and Tim–Don’t mock Flash. Or I’ll do what Jerry threatened to do, but remember–Brian’s seven now. They’ve been fermenting!!
Everyone seems to be talking about the various “Kill him” quotes. The Palinism that gets me is where people were yelling during a speech, which she took as a protest. She talked about how the soldiers were fighting so they could protest. What were the “protestors” yelling?
“LOUDER!”
They couldn’t hear her. Which people behind her told her, yet she still kept on…
“Or a fan of Brigadoon which absolutely rules.”
I knew we were friends for a good reason.
Oh, and Tim–Don’t mock Flash. Or I’ll do what Jerry threatened to do, but remember–Brian’s seven now. They’ve been fermenting!!
Right, right. Because after “The Godfather,” “Godfather Part II,” “Godfather Part III”, “Goodfellas,” “Married to the Mob,” “The Sopranos,” “Analyze This,” “Analyze That,” not to mention countless real life trials involving criminals with similar nicknames, the “stereotype” was this close to dying off. And then I make a joke and suddenly it gains new life.
Please.
PAD
No, by all means keep perpetuating a stereotype and go a step further by acting indignant when you’re called on it. It speaks volumes.
mister_pj, it was a joke. It was obviously a joke and it was not an offensive one. You’re coming across as oversensitive.
mister_pj, it was a joke. It was obviously a joke and it was not an offensive one. You’re coming across as oversensitive.
The Sopranos was a documentary.
The Sopranos was a documentary.
mister pj, on what grounds is this perpetuating a stereotype? Tony is not an exclusively Italian name. Nothing in PAD’s post was specifically Italian. The Mob does exist. They do tend to have colorful nicknames.
Unless one takes any and all references to the Mafia as being aimed at Italians…in which case who is exactly perpetuating a stereotype???
mister pj, on what grounds is this perpetuating a stereotype? Tony is not an exclusively Italian name. Nothing in PAD’s post was specifically Italian. The Mob does exist. They do tend to have colorful nicknames.
Unless one takes any and all references to the Mafia as being aimed at Italians…in which case who is exactly perpetuating a stereotype???
I’m not expressing indignation. That would require my being angry. I’m not angry because the accusation is too absurd to get angry over.
I just think you’re just being ridiculous. And you can stop sending me private e-mails about this as well. If you want to press your case, do it here, but don’t waste my time or clutter my e-mail box with this PC nonsense.
PAD
I’m not expressing indignation. That would require my being angry. I’m not angry because the accusation is too absurd to get angry over.
I just think you’re just being ridiculous. And you can stop sending me private e-mails about this as well. If you want to press your case, do it here, but don’t waste my time or clutter my e-mail box with this PC nonsense.
PAD
Oversensitive, I like that.
Let me tell… you can be Polish and be on the receiving of a Polish joke, or Jewish and be on receiving end of a Jewish joke, or Irish, or Black or Spanish or any other ethnicity. Tell me when it’s YOU or YOUR ETHNIC GROUP if you still find it funny.
Maybe it’s not offensive to someone who isn’t of Italian descent but, this whole Italians=Mafia thing is a load of crap.
I pulled this off of Wikipedia:
To this day, Italian Americans are frequently associated with organized crime, and New York in the minds of many Americans, largely due to pervasive media stereotyping, a number of popular gangster movies (such as The Godfather and Goodfellas) and television series such as The Sopranos. A Zogby International survey revealed that 78 percent of teenagers 13 to 18 associated Italian Americans with either criminal activity or blue-collar work. A survey by the Response Analysis Corporation reported that 74 percent of adult Americans believe most Italian Americans have “some connection” to organized crime.
It has nothing to do with being over sensitive as much as being tired of this bullsh*t and finally calling people on it.
mister_pj: Tell me when it’s YOU or YOUR ETHNIC GROUP if you still find it funny.
PAD didn’t make a joke about an ethnic group. He made a joke about the mafia.
You’re the one insulting Italian Americans by implying that any comment about the mafia is a comment about Italian Americans.
THAT is why oversensitivity (PC bûllšhìŧ) is bad.
mister_pj: Tell me when it’s YOU or YOUR ETHNIC GROUP if you still find it funny.
PAD didn’t make a joke about an ethnic group. He made a joke about the mafia.
You’re the one insulting Italian Americans by implying that any comment about the mafia is a comment about Italian Americans.
THAT is why oversensitivity (PC bûllšhìŧ) is bad.
“Let me tell… you can be Polish and be on the receiving of a Polish joke, or Jewish and be on receiving end of a Jewish joke, or Irish, or Black or Spanish or any other ethnicity. Tell me when it’s YOU or YOUR ETHNIC GROUP if you still find it funny.”
“To this day, Italian Americans are frequently associated with organized crime, and New York in the minds of many Americans,”
I think it is necessary to distinguish between two issues here.
First, popular culture in general traffics in stereotypes of Italians, Irish, blacks, Germans, hispanics, arabs, Jews, asians, rednecks etc. in jokes, movies, TV etc. But these stereotypes are usually not malicious, and I don’t think the writers and artists who use them actually think that all members of the group in question actually fit the stereotype, nor do they use them in order to say anything about a whole group. Stereotypes by there very nature are an exaggeration, a focusing on one aspect to the point of absurdity.
Yet, if we look at the Wikipedia quote, it would seem that too many people take these stereotypes and apply them without the ability to distinguish between the stereotype and reality.
What does that mean?
“Let me tell… you can be Polish and be on the receiving of a Polish joke, or Jewish and be on receiving end of a Jewish joke, or Irish, or Black or Spanish or any other ethnicity. Tell me when it’s YOU or YOUR ETHNIC GROUP if you still find it funny.”
“To this day, Italian Americans are frequently associated with organized crime, and New York in the minds of many Americans,”
I think it is necessary to distinguish between two issues here.
First, popular culture in general traffics in stereotypes of Italians, Irish, blacks, Germans, hispanics, arabs, Jews, asians, rednecks etc. in jokes, movies, TV etc. But these stereotypes are usually not malicious, and I don’t think the writers and artists who use them actually think that all members of the group in question actually fit the stereotype, nor do they use them in order to say anything about a whole group. Stereotypes by there very nature are an exaggeration, a focusing on one aspect to the point of absurdity.
Yet, if we look at the Wikipedia quote, it would seem that too many people take these stereotypes and apply them without the ability to distinguish between the stereotype and reality.
What does that mean?
And, of course, Joe is such a stereotypically Italian name…
PJ, you may be unaware of this, but most of this country’s minorities have, at one point or another in their assimilation into the Coll- er, I mean the American Melting Pot, had associations with organized crime. The Irish gangs in New York were pretty much overthrown by the Mafia; the Triads are still in evidence on the US West Coast; fortunately for us all, the Bloods and Crips fell to fighting among themselves before they could become much of a force on the national crime scene.
“Joe the Plumber” could in fact be a member of almost any of these organizations (“Joe” seems an unlikely name for a Triad member). It is only your own hypersensitivity that insists this is a slur against Italians. Way to perpetuate a stereotype, mister_pj.
And, of course, Joe is such a stereotypically Italian name…
PJ, you may be unaware of this, but most of this country’s minorities have, at one point or another in their assimilation into the Coll- er, I mean the American Melting Pot, had associations with organized crime. The Irish gangs in New York were pretty much overthrown by the Mafia; the Triads are still in evidence on the US West Coast; fortunately for us all, the Bloods and Crips fell to fighting among themselves before they could become much of a force on the national crime scene.
“Joe the Plumber” could in fact be a member of almost any of these organizations (“Joe” seems an unlikely name for a Triad member). It is only your own hypersensitivity that insists this is a slur against Italians. Way to perpetuate a stereotype, mister_pj.
Okay…
Let’s say for the sake of argument I’m misreading things.
Mmmm?
Interesting then the examples that were pulled up, don’t you think:
Right, right. Because after “The Godfather,” “Godfather Part II,” “Godfather Part III”, “Goodfellas,” “Married to the Mob,” “The Sopranos,” “Analyze This,” “Analyze That,” not to mention countless real life trials involving criminals with similar nicknames, the “stereotype” was this close to dying off. And then I make a joke and suddenly it gains new life.
All those movies that were used as examples? They’re about Laotians, Swedes and Namabians?
Oh!
Before it becomes an issue, in my haste I misspelled Namibia. No slight against Namibians was intended.
Oh!
Before it becomes an issue, in my haste I misspelled Namibia. No slight against Namibians was intended.
Do you find all these movies and TV shows offensive toward Italians?