…a Mafia wiseguy called “Joe the Plumber” is saying, “I’m gonna have t’get a new f*ckin'” nickname…”
PAD
319 comments on “And somewhere at this very moment…”
Actaully she did.
Ahh, well then. I guess I’ll go find a brick wall to go along with the broken record. 😛
Savion Glover is awesome. I’m kicking myself now for not thinking of him myself.
Savion Glover is awesome. I’m kicking myself now for not thinking of him myself.
I didn’t say I was knocking Xanadu, Jerry. It’s actually one of my favorite really awful movies — at one point I had a taped-on-air copy of it and Flash Gordon on the same tape for perfect brain-meltiness.
Terrible movie. Still a fun viewing. Awesome, awesome soundtrack. I need to get a workable copy of it for my daughter, since she (a) likes dance and (b) won’t notice at this age that the lead male can’t act worth beans. 🙂
Save the lactose-intolerant diapers for someone who really deserves them. Sarah Palin comes to mind…
And he couldn’t act even better in The Warriors. That’s a fun movie when you’re brain is on low power alert.
Bill Mulligan, I didn’t realize they were talking about an alleged incident on Tuesday of this week. I was referring to an incident earlier this month where Palin was accusing Obama of consorting with domestic terrorists, and a man in the crowd most definitely said “kill him!” It was on videotape, it was unmistakable, and it was all over the news. Search YouTube if you doubt me.
Oh I don’t doubt you—but wasn’t the “kill him!” in that clip being directed at Bill Ayers, not Obama? Not that I approve of yelling out “Kill him” at anyone, even people who I disagree with politically. That’s one of the differences between me and Mr Ayers.
But just for the record, since this is the meme that many, including some on this board have championed–is there any evidence of people at McCain/Palin rallies actually calling for death to Obama? Or is this just more conventional wisdom that we don’t need to check up on?
Ok, look at this–i was ready to make a prediction that Obama would get 55% of the vote to Mccain’s 44% (with 1% reserved for those confused Democrats who will somehow end up voting for Buchanan again) but Gallup is out now with a poll that has it Obama 49, McCain 47. WTF???
I find that incredibly hard to believe. This is North Carolina and I’d say form what I’ve seen and heard there is a lot of enthusiasm among Obama voters and little among McCain voters. More Obama signs than McCain signs. More Obama ads than McCain ads. I’ve been contacted by the Obama people to help with the campaign (and was given the strong impression that they got my name from this blog, in which case–Hi guys!). They seem to have a formidible ground game going on. And this is an iffy state at best for him. I can only imagine how solid it is in some of the friendlier states.
This morning I read that irish bookies are already paying out for bets on Obama, convinced that it’s all over (I find that hard to swallow, but should I ever develop a gambling addiction I’m definitely getting an Irish bookie.). There are articles on the planned victory party for Obama. There is talk of what his first 100 days will be like. I mean, it’s been total fait accompli. And then by the end of the day it’s suddenly been within the margin of error?
I don’t buy it. Maybe the Obama people should tone back the victory talk until the votes are counted but i can’t believe this thing is really that close. Does anyone?
Bill Mulligan, I didn’t realize they were talking about an alleged incident on Tuesday of this week. I was referring to an incident earlier this month where Palin was accusing Obama of consorting with domestic terrorists, and a man in the crowd most definitely said “kill him!” It was on videotape, it was unmistakable, and it was all over the news. Search YouTube if you doubt me.
Oh I don’t doubt you—but wasn’t the “kill him!” in that clip being directed at Bill Ayers, not Obama? Not that I approve of yelling out “Kill him” at anyone, even people who I disagree with politically. That’s one of the differences between me and Mr Ayers.
But just for the record, since this is the meme that many, including some on this board have championed–is there any evidence of people at McCain/Palin rallies actually calling for death to Obama? Or is this just more conventional wisdom that we don’t need to check up on?
Ok, look at this–i was ready to make a prediction that Obama would get 55% of the vote to Mccain’s 44% (with 1% reserved for those confused Democrats who will somehow end up voting for Buchanan again) but Gallup is out now with a poll that has it Obama 49, McCain 47. WTF???
I find that incredibly hard to believe. This is North Carolina and I’d say form what I’ve seen and heard there is a lot of enthusiasm among Obama voters and little among McCain voters. More Obama signs than McCain signs. More Obama ads than McCain ads. I’ve been contacted by the Obama people to help with the campaign (and was given the strong impression that they got my name from this blog, in which case–Hi guys!). They seem to have a formidible ground game going on. And this is an iffy state at best for him. I can only imagine how solid it is in some of the friendlier states.
This morning I read that irish bookies are already paying out for bets on Obama, convinced that it’s all over (I find that hard to swallow, but should I ever develop a gambling addiction I’m definitely getting an Irish bookie.). There are articles on the planned victory party for Obama. There is talk of what his first 100 days will be like. I mean, it’s been total fait accompli. And then by the end of the day it’s suddenly been within the margin of error?
I don’t buy it. Maybe the Obama people should tone back the victory talk until the votes are counted but i can’t believe this thing is really that close. Does anyone?
Jason, just FYI — I posted the same link upthread about four hours ago. 🙂
TWL
To be fair, Alyson, that may not actually have been a remark based on race.
Yes, Alyson, because Jerry would know. He was very vocal about how his concerns Obama’s campaign would be race-based were dispelled when McCain accused him of doing just that — for Obama using the dollar-bill allegory McCain himself introduced a month earlier.
Jerry retracted his own concerns Obama’s campaign would be race-based so unambiguously, text by him saying so is burned into my monitor. He’s not being selectively fair.
To be fair, Alyson, that may not actually have been a remark based on race.
Yes, Alyson, because Jerry would know. He was very vocal about how his concerns Obama’s campaign would be race-based were dispelled when McCain accused him of doing just that — for Obama using the dollar-bill allegory McCain himself introduced a month earlier.
Jerry retracted his own concerns Obama’s campaign would be race-based so unambiguously, text by him saying so is burned into my monitor. He’s not being selectively fair.
You know, Joe the Plumber (and the business he works for) couldn’t PAY for this amount of national (and international) advertising. 🙂 Yes, it’ getting a run here too.
You know, Joe the Plumber (and the business he works for) couldn’t PAY for this amount of national (and international) advertising. 🙂 Yes, it’ getting a run here too.
Maybe the Obama people should tone back the victory talk until the votes are counted…
They’re trying. I’m not good enough at HTML coding to know how to link this properly, but the story is headlined, “Front-runner Obama cautions against overconfidence”:
Maybe the Obama people should tone back the victory talk until the votes are counted…
They’re trying. I’m not good enough at HTML coding to know how to link this properly, but the story is headlined, “Front-runner Obama cautions against overconfidence”:
Yeah, but with the details that are coming out neither he nor his boss are likely very happy with the attention. No license to practice, lies about union membership, back taxes owed, etc.
Jonathan (the other one),
Yeah, they’ve been sending emails out all day. I subscribe to a number of mailings from both campaigns and several parties. The Obama and DNC emails today are twice what all the others have been combined and every one of them has been a warning to not slow down or rest just because the finish line and the win are within sight.
Megan: “You know, Joe the Plumber (and the business he works for) couldn’t PAY for this amount of national (and international) advertising. :-)”
It turns out that he would be better off without the advertising. Joe the Plumber doesn’t have a license, so now the Toledo Plumbing Board of Control is considering whether or not to sanction him and his boss.
Also, he won’t be buying that business any time soon. Apparently it’s only something he’s talked casually about with his boss and he only made $40,000 in 2006. Plus, the annual revenue of that business is $100,000, with the taxable income being much less. So one way or another, Obama’s tax plan would actually lower Joe the Plumber’s taxes.
The more I learn about this guy, the worse I feel for defending him.
Megan: “You know, Joe the Plumber (and the business he works for) couldn’t PAY for this amount of national (and international) advertising. :-)”
It turns out that he would be better off without the advertising. Joe the Plumber doesn’t have a license, so now the Toledo Plumbing Board of Control is considering whether or not to sanction him and his boss.
Also, he won’t be buying that business any time soon. Apparently it’s only something he’s talked casually about with his boss and he only made $40,000 in 2006. Plus, the annual revenue of that business is $100,000, with the taxable income being much less. So one way or another, Obama’s tax plan would actually lower Joe the Plumber’s taxes.
The more I learn about this guy, the worse I feel for defending him.
Not being familiar with your tax system, how much tax would Joe have to pay on $40,000 pa?
Not being familiar with your tax system, how much tax would Joe have to pay on $40,000 pa?
Joe the plumber isn’t a licensed plumber. He works for a 2-man plumbing company which consists of the owner and Joe. Joe doesn’t make $250,000 a year. He hopes to buy the plumbing business in the future and possibly someday make that much money.
Right now?…he is a lackey.
And today, I spoke with an acquaintance who works at the gas station where Joe buys his gasoline…and possibly his cigarettes and beer, but that is just speculation based on my observation that too many cartons of cigarettes and cases of beer are sold at gas stations.
Joe the plumber isn’t a licensed plumber. He works for a 2-man plumbing company which consists of the owner and Joe. Joe doesn’t make $250,000 a year. He hopes to buy the plumbing business in the future and possibly someday make that much money.
Right now?…he is a lackey.
And today, I spoke with an acquaintance who works at the gas station where Joe buys his gasoline…and possibly his cigarettes and beer, but that is just speculation based on my observation that too many cartons of cigarettes and cases of beer are sold at gas stations.
Not being familiar with your tax system, how much tax would Joe have to pay on $40,000 pa?
Depending on the state taxes it could be in the 30-35% range.
Lackey or apprentice?
Lackey or apprentice?
Megan, it all depends on whether one has deductions or not. There is a standard deduction given for each account, or there are deductions that can be taken if you itemize the deductions. Those include taxes paid to the state and local governments, medical bills in excess of 7% of your gross, interest on your house loan, and several other things. Then there is a deduction for yourself and every person listed as a dependent on the form.
I just happen to have last years tax “Forms & Instructions” booklet within reach. Standard deduction is $5350, leaving 34,650. Then $3400 for a single person, leaving $31,250. Going to the back of the booklet, checking the chart shows taxes to be paid of $4239. That’s about 10.6%.
Megan, it all depends on whether one has deductions or not. There is a standard deduction given for each account, or there are deductions that can be taken if you itemize the deductions. Those include taxes paid to the state and local governments, medical bills in excess of 7% of your gross, interest on your house loan, and several other things. Then there is a deduction for yourself and every person listed as a dependent on the form.
I just happen to have last years tax “Forms & Instructions” booklet within reach. Standard deduction is $5350, leaving 34,650. Then $3400 for a single person, leaving $31,250. Going to the back of the booklet, checking the chart shows taxes to be paid of $4239. That’s about 10.6%.
Jerry Chandler wrote: “if they remembered the fad of Riverdance.”
Or Riverborg, as the case may be.
Jerry also wrote “Now, if the speaker was really old they might think of Shirley Temple, but I doubt that she’d pop into many people’s minds when the topic was politics.”
Unless they know her as Ambassador Shirley Temple Black rather than the cute little child star of the 1930s.
Rick
Actaully she did. Saw it live on the cable news today. And she added “Jane the Plumber” to the family when she did it.
Why Jane? I mean, if he were Ðìçk the Plumber, then Jane wold make sense. But his name’s Joe! Am I the only one who remembers there really WAS a famous “Josephine the Plumber?”
PAD
Actaully she did. Saw it live on the cable news today. And she added “Jane the Plumber” to the family when she did it.
Why Jane? I mean, if he were Ðìçk the Plumber, then Jane wold make sense. But his name’s Joe! Am I the only one who remembers there really WAS a famous “Josephine the Plumber?”
PAD
That’s about 10.6%.
That would be a nicer number to deal with. Adding up state, fed, payroll and other various bits (not counting savings bonds deductions) I pay about a 29% tax rate.
That’s about 10.6%.
That would be a nicer number to deal with. Adding up state, fed, payroll and other various bits (not counting savings bonds deductions) I pay about a 29% tax rate.
Now, if he happens to itemize deductions, his deduction will be more, meaning less taxes. In addition, I don’t know how many deductions he has, or if he has other household income. So the rest of this is pure speculation.
For instance, working in Toledo costs him 1.5% off the top. And I think he city of residence adds another 0.5% (most cities in this area do have city tax). The State of Ohio takes around 8% (I think it is 7.8, but not sure.). So that’s 10% off the top, $4000. If he has a home loan, he might be paying $500 a month, of which 90% is interest. That would be another $5400. So that makes the itemized deductions $10,400, lowering the taxable income to $39,600. If he has wife and 2 kids, he gets 4 x $3400 ($13,600) off that amount, which now brings him down to $26,000. Tax on $26,000 for “Married, Filing Jointly” is $3132, which is about 7.8%.
Notes for prior post: deduction level for medical expenses is the amount must be above 7.5%.
And that I figured the tax for the prior post as a single man. Correcting for being married, but no kids, another $3400 off, taxable amount is $27,850. Taxes are $3783, which is 9.5%.
Now, if he happens to itemize deductions, his deduction will be more, meaning less taxes. In addition, I don’t know how many deductions he has, or if he has other household income. So the rest of this is pure speculation.
For instance, working in Toledo costs him 1.5% off the top. And I think he city of residence adds another 0.5% (most cities in this area do have city tax). The State of Ohio takes around 8% (I think it is 7.8, but not sure.). So that’s 10% off the top, $4000. If he has a home loan, he might be paying $500 a month, of which 90% is interest. That would be another $5400. So that makes the itemized deductions $10,400, lowering the taxable income to $39,600. If he has wife and 2 kids, he gets 4 x $3400 ($13,600) off that amount, which now brings him down to $26,000. Tax on $26,000 for “Married, Filing Jointly” is $3132, which is about 7.8%.
Notes for prior post: deduction level for medical expenses is the amount must be above 7.5%.
And that I figured the tax for the prior post as a single man. Correcting for being married, but no kids, another $3400 off, taxable amount is $27,850. Taxes are $3783, which is 9.5%.
Oh I don’t doubt you—but wasn’t the “kill him!” in that clip being directed at Bill Ayers, not Obama?
That is up for debate.
But then, some right-wingers (not you, Bill) would dispute that any of this stuff is directed at Ayers, even the reported racial comments.
But there is still the video on YouTube, which I previously posted the link for, from a McCain rally in Albuquerque. McCain is talking and then immediately after he says “Who is Barack Obama”, you can hear a guy yelling what sounds like, imo, “Kill him”.
Immediately after the yelling, McCain screws his face up like he isn’t very amused with what the guy yelled, but he never disputed it.
But apparently, according to some, there’s nothing to investigate here because they guy *obviously* isn’t saying “Kill him”. It really seems like some are just looking for any excuse to make it look like they’re not standing at the edge of the cliff with the rest the nut jobs.
And I see another error I made in the second post, but I think you get the ballpark figure.
10% federal, 8% state, 2% local = 20%, but part of the state and local are also deducted if you itemize.
State tax here in Michigan is 4.1%, there are very few cities that charge local tax, and houses cost about twice as much as in Toledo and surrounding areas, where Joe lives, so the interest on the home loan is about twice as much. Basically, if you don’t have a home loan or TONS of medical expenses, you can’t itemize the deductions.
The tax rate for those below the median income (the income where half the country is above and below) is actually pretty low, but then again, you don’t really have much either. I think median income per household is $46,000 or so.
And I see another error I made in the second post, but I think you get the ballpark figure.
10% federal, 8% state, 2% local = 20%, but part of the state and local are also deducted if you itemize.
State tax here in Michigan is 4.1%, there are very few cities that charge local tax, and houses cost about twice as much as in Toledo and surrounding areas, where Joe lives, so the interest on the home loan is about twice as much. Basically, if you don’t have a home loan or TONS of medical expenses, you can’t itemize the deductions.
The tax rate for those below the median income (the income where half the country is above and below) is actually pretty low, but then again, you don’t really have much either. I think median income per household is $46,000 or so.
Lackey is actually a harsh word for someone I don’t know, so let’s change it to employee.
To be an apprentice requires thousands of hours of actual work, plus nearly a thousand hours of school. But I think you can also get a tradesperson card by working at that trade for 8 years under the supervision of a licensed tradesperson, which is what Joe is attempting. If Joe’s boss isn’t licensed, Joe might not qualify.
That would be most unfortunate, because even though Joe is going to vote wrong, I believe every honest person deserves to try to find a good way to make a living.
Bill Mulligan: “Oh I don’t doubt you—but wasn’t the ‘kill him!’ in that clip being directed at Bill Ayers, not Obama?”
The person shouted out “kill him!” The “him” was never made explicit. I don’t believe the shouter was identified, either. Who he was referring to is unknown. But it’s troubling no matter who the shouter had in mind.
Bill Mulligan: “But just for the record, since this is the meme that many, including some on this board have championed–is there any evidence of people at McCain/Palin rallies actually calling for death to Obama? Or is this just more conventional wisdom that we don’t need to check up on?”
Someone at a Palin rally shouted “kill him” in response to Palin’s unabashed attempt to incite the crowd by linking Obama to terrorism committed when he was a young child. There have been other documented incidents where McCain supporters displayed anger that was somewhat less intense but nevertheless troubling. In fact, the problem was getting so far out of hand that McCain himself was forced to begin backing away from his own rhetoric.
As for “conventional wisdom” no one needs to check up on — well, if no one is checking up on it then how did you find out the story about the Scranton incident discredited? (Pssst, Bill — you read about it in the news.)
============================================
It seems that McCain’s repeated references to Joe the Plumber are creating yet another unproductive distraction. I’m beginning to feel sorry for McCain — he and his campaign handlers can’t seem to do ANYTHING right.
It seems that McCain’s repeated references to Joe the Plumber are creating yet another unproductive distraction. I’m beginning to feel sorry for McCain — he and his campaign handlers can’t seem to do ANYTHING right.
But they’re gonna try. The latest is a sad as it is funny. McCain and Palin are pushing “Joe the Plumber” hard to the crowds and making him a big deal. Okay, that’s sorta fair if Joe doesn’t mind it that much. But the fun thing is that, duh, anything that’s new and unkown is going to be checked with a fine tooth comb by the media. The cast their eyes towards Joe and have found out a lot of stuff that Joe likely didn’t want to get out and that makes Joe a much less powerful tool for mcCain and his camp.
The McCain answer?
His people and his supporters in the media are talking about how the Dems and the evil drive-by media are attacking, smeering belittling Joe and by extension attacking the hardworking common man.
(Rolls eyes yet again.)
It seems that McCain’s repeated references to Joe the Plumber are creating yet another unproductive distraction. I’m beginning to feel sorry for McCain — he and his campaign handlers can’t seem to do ANYTHING right.
But they’re gonna try. The latest is a sad as it is funny. McCain and Palin are pushing “Joe the Plumber” hard to the crowds and making him a big deal. Okay, that’s sorta fair if Joe doesn’t mind it that much. But the fun thing is that, duh, anything that’s new and unkown is going to be checked with a fine tooth comb by the media. The cast their eyes towards Joe and have found out a lot of stuff that Joe likely didn’t want to get out and that makes Joe a much less powerful tool for mcCain and his camp.
The McCain answer?
His people and his supporters in the media are talking about how the Dems and the evil drive-by media are attacking, smeering belittling Joe and by extension attacking the hardworking common man.
(Rolls eyes yet again.)
He can’t be called an apprentice. He never did an apprenticeship, and he isn’t doing one now. He’s an unlicensed guy who does plumbing.
As for the tap-dancing remark…there is just something about the image of Sammy Davis, Jr. tap-dancing that, when compared with Obama answering questions, simply sets off my oh-no-he-di’nt alarm. (“Why did he need to go and bring up Sammy Davis, Jr.? BECAUSE HE’S BLACK, GET IT?”) For some reason the image of Gregory Hines doesn’t quite push the same button. He didn’t really need to name a specific dancer; the metaphor of tap-dancing around the question was stupid enough.
Meanwhile, Joe Unlicensed also waxes culture-warrior about how Obama “speaks so well.” As Chris Rock pointed out, “he speaks so well” isn’t what you say about a serious political candidate. That’s what you say about a retarded child, and nobody talks about white politicians that way. Until this afternoon, I was certain that Wurzelbacher’s appearance must have been a coincidence, and I didn’t agree with the people suggesting that he’s a plant, but after I saw his own words, I really have to wonder. He talks about Obama in exactly the way McCain/Palin would like us to hear, and he’s related to Charles Keating. If I found out that McCain called up Sam Wurzelbacher and instructed him to “go ask That One some tougher questions,” it wouldn’t surprise me in the least.
Not that I’m going to bet money on it, but…with the way this campaign’s been going, it really wouldn’t surprise me.
He can’t be called an apprentice. He never did an apprenticeship, and he isn’t doing one now. He’s an unlicensed guy who does plumbing.
As for the tap-dancing remark…there is just something about the image of Sammy Davis, Jr. tap-dancing that, when compared with Obama answering questions, simply sets off my oh-no-he-di’nt alarm. (“Why did he need to go and bring up Sammy Davis, Jr.? BECAUSE HE’S BLACK, GET IT?”) For some reason the image of Gregory Hines doesn’t quite push the same button. He didn’t really need to name a specific dancer; the metaphor of tap-dancing around the question was stupid enough.
Meanwhile, Joe Unlicensed also waxes culture-warrior about how Obama “speaks so well.” As Chris Rock pointed out, “he speaks so well” isn’t what you say about a serious political candidate. That’s what you say about a retarded child, and nobody talks about white politicians that way. Until this afternoon, I was certain that Wurzelbacher’s appearance must have been a coincidence, and I didn’t agree with the people suggesting that he’s a plant, but after I saw his own words, I really have to wonder. He talks about Obama in exactly the way McCain/Palin would like us to hear, and he’s related to Charles Keating. If I found out that McCain called up Sam Wurzelbacher and instructed him to “go ask That One some tougher questions,” it wouldn’t surprise me in the least.
Not that I’m going to bet money on it, but…with the way this campaign’s been going, it really wouldn’t surprise me.
I can’t imagine Joe the Plumber being a plant. He didn’t actually say anything all that interesting when he talked to Obama. The only reason that moment got any play at all is because Obama used the phrase, “Spread the wealth around.” That phrase has a lot of negative conotations and it wasn’t a great choice of words from Obama.
And again, Joe is related to Charles Keating, something McCain doesn’t want back in the news. I know that “lack of vetting” doesn’t rule something out with the McCain campaign, but it does make it a little less likely.
I can’t imagine Joe the Plumber being a plant. He didn’t actually say anything all that interesting when he talked to Obama. The only reason that moment got any play at all is because Obama used the phrase, “Spread the wealth around.” That phrase has a lot of negative conotations and it wasn’t a great choice of words from Obama.
And again, Joe is related to Charles Keating, something McCain doesn’t want back in the news. I know that “lack of vetting” doesn’t rule something out with the McCain campaign, but it does make it a little less likely.
Alyson: (“Why did he need to go and bring up Sammy Davis, Jr.? BECAUSE HE’S BLACK, GET IT?”)
Yeah, or he just doesn’t know a lot about tap dancing and named one of the more famous tap dancers in his lifetime.
As Chris Rock pointed out, “he speaks so well” isn’t what you say about a serious political candidate.
Joe Biden: “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” Biden said. “I mean, that’s a storybook, man.” http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/31/biden.obama/
• 
Actaully she did.
Ahh, well then. I guess I’ll go find a brick wall to go along with the broken record. 😛
Savion Glover is awesome. I’m kicking myself now for not thinking of him myself.
Savion Glover is awesome. I’m kicking myself now for not thinking of him myself.
I didn’t say I was knocking Xanadu, Jerry. It’s actually one of my favorite really awful movies — at one point I had a taped-on-air copy of it and Flash Gordon on the same tape for perfect brain-meltiness.
Terrible movie. Still a fun viewing. Awesome, awesome soundtrack. I need to get a workable copy of it for my daughter, since she (a) likes dance and (b) won’t notice at this age that the lead male can’t act worth beans. 🙂
Save the lactose-intolerant diapers for someone who really deserves them. Sarah Palin comes to mind…
TWL
Tim,
http://www.deepdiscount.com/viewproduct.htm?productId=39886770
The full movie on DVD with a bonus CD of the complete soundtrack for $8.86 & free shipping.
Oh, and if their out right now then look here.
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=7640227&style=movie
Costs a bit more, but the shipping is fast as hëll.
Oh, and if they’re out right now then look here.
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=7640227&style=movie
Costs a bit more, but the shipping is fast as hëll.
Buy “Xanadu” on dvd for your daughter then. We have a copy, my husband used to be an O. N-J tragic.
BTW who cared that the leading man couldn’t act! I know I didn’t when I saw the movie as a teen/early 20s girl.
Now it looks like Joe the Plumber is related to Charles Keating. That’s not something McCain wanted to bring back into the news.
http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/10/15/joe-the-plumber-wurzelbacher-related-to-charles-keating-oops/
BTW who cared that the leading man couldn’t act!
And he couldn’t act even better in The Warriors. That’s a fun movie when you’re brain is on low power alert.
Bill Mulligan, I didn’t realize they were talking about an alleged incident on Tuesday of this week. I was referring to an incident earlier this month where Palin was accusing Obama of consorting with domestic terrorists, and a man in the crowd most definitely said “kill him!” It was on videotape, it was unmistakable, and it was all over the news. Search YouTube if you doubt me.
Oh I don’t doubt you—but wasn’t the “kill him!” in that clip being directed at Bill Ayers, not Obama? Not that I approve of yelling out “Kill him” at anyone, even people who I disagree with politically. That’s one of the differences between me and Mr Ayers.
But just for the record, since this is the meme that many, including some on this board have championed–is there any evidence of people at McCain/Palin rallies actually calling for death to Obama? Or is this just more conventional wisdom that we don’t need to check up on?
Ok, look at this–i was ready to make a prediction that Obama would get 55% of the vote to Mccain’s 44% (with 1% reserved for those confused Democrats who will somehow end up voting for Buchanan again) but Gallup is out now with a poll that has it Obama 49, McCain 47. WTF???
I find that incredibly hard to believe. This is North Carolina and I’d say form what I’ve seen and heard there is a lot of enthusiasm among Obama voters and little among McCain voters. More Obama signs than McCain signs. More Obama ads than McCain ads. I’ve been contacted by the Obama people to help with the campaign (and was given the strong impression that they got my name from this blog, in which case–Hi guys!). They seem to have a formidible ground game going on. And this is an iffy state at best for him. I can only imagine how solid it is in some of the friendlier states.
This morning I read that irish bookies are already paying out for bets on Obama, convinced that it’s all over (I find that hard to swallow, but should I ever develop a gambling addiction I’m definitely getting an Irish bookie.). There are articles on the planned victory party for Obama. There is talk of what his first 100 days will be like. I mean, it’s been total fait accompli. And then by the end of the day it’s suddenly been within the margin of error?
I don’t buy it. Maybe the Obama people should tone back the victory talk until the votes are counted but i can’t believe this thing is really that close. Does anyone?
Bill Mulligan, I didn’t realize they were talking about an alleged incident on Tuesday of this week. I was referring to an incident earlier this month where Palin was accusing Obama of consorting with domestic terrorists, and a man in the crowd most definitely said “kill him!” It was on videotape, it was unmistakable, and it was all over the news. Search YouTube if you doubt me.
Oh I don’t doubt you—but wasn’t the “kill him!” in that clip being directed at Bill Ayers, not Obama? Not that I approve of yelling out “Kill him” at anyone, even people who I disagree with politically. That’s one of the differences between me and Mr Ayers.
But just for the record, since this is the meme that many, including some on this board have championed–is there any evidence of people at McCain/Palin rallies actually calling for death to Obama? Or is this just more conventional wisdom that we don’t need to check up on?
Ok, look at this–i was ready to make a prediction that Obama would get 55% of the vote to Mccain’s 44% (with 1% reserved for those confused Democrats who will somehow end up voting for Buchanan again) but Gallup is out now with a poll that has it Obama 49, McCain 47. WTF???
I find that incredibly hard to believe. This is North Carolina and I’d say form what I’ve seen and heard there is a lot of enthusiasm among Obama voters and little among McCain voters. More Obama signs than McCain signs. More Obama ads than McCain ads. I’ve been contacted by the Obama people to help with the campaign (and was given the strong impression that they got my name from this blog, in which case–Hi guys!). They seem to have a formidible ground game going on. And this is an iffy state at best for him. I can only imagine how solid it is in some of the friendlier states.
This morning I read that irish bookies are already paying out for bets on Obama, convinced that it’s all over (I find that hard to swallow, but should I ever develop a gambling addiction I’m definitely getting an Irish bookie.). There are articles on the planned victory party for Obama. There is talk of what his first 100 days will be like. I mean, it’s been total fait accompli. And then by the end of the day it’s suddenly been within the margin of error?
I don’t buy it. Maybe the Obama people should tone back the victory talk until the votes are counted but i can’t believe this thing is really that close. Does anyone?
Jason, just FYI — I posted the same link upthread about four hours ago. 🙂
TWL
Yes, Alyson, because Jerry would know. He was very vocal about how his concerns Obama’s campaign would be race-based were dispelled when McCain accused him of doing just that — for Obama using the dollar-bill allegory McCain himself introduced a month earlier.
Jerry retracted his own concerns Obama’s campaign would be race-based so unambiguously, text by him saying so is burned into my monitor. He’s not being selectively fair.
Yes, Alyson, because Jerry would know. He was very vocal about how his concerns Obama’s campaign would be race-based were dispelled when McCain accused him of doing just that — for Obama using the dollar-bill allegory McCain himself introduced a month earlier.
Jerry retracted his own concerns Obama’s campaign would be race-based so unambiguously, text by him saying so is burned into my monitor. He’s not being selectively fair.
You know, Joe the Plumber (and the business he works for) couldn’t PAY for this amount of national (and international) advertising. 🙂 Yes, it’ getting a run here too.
You know, Joe the Plumber (and the business he works for) couldn’t PAY for this amount of national (and international) advertising. 🙂 Yes, it’ getting a run here too.
Maybe the Obama people should tone back the victory talk until the votes are counted…
They’re trying. I’m not good enough at HTML coding to know how to link this properly, but the story is headlined, “Front-runner Obama cautions against overconfidence”:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/16/campaign.wrap/index.html
Maybe the Obama people should tone back the victory talk until the votes are counted…
They’re trying. I’m not good enough at HTML coding to know how to link this properly, but the story is headlined, “Front-runner Obama cautions against overconfidence”:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/16/campaign.wrap/index.html
Megan,
Yeah, but with the details that are coming out neither he nor his boss are likely very happy with the attention. No license to practice, lies about union membership, back taxes owed, etc.
Jonathan (the other one),
Yeah, they’ve been sending emails out all day. I subscribe to a number of mailings from both campaigns and several parties. The Obama and DNC emails today are twice what all the others have been combined and every one of them has been a warning to not slow down or rest just because the finish line and the win are within sight.
Megan: “You know, Joe the Plumber (and the business he works for) couldn’t PAY for this amount of national (and international) advertising. :-)”
It turns out that he would be better off without the advertising. Joe the Plumber doesn’t have a license, so now the Toledo Plumbing Board of Control is considering whether or not to sanction him and his boss.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27221645/
Also, he won’t be buying that business any time soon. Apparently it’s only something he’s talked casually about with his boss and he only made $40,000 in 2006. Plus, the annual revenue of that business is $100,000, with the taxable income being much less. So one way or another, Obama’s tax plan would actually lower Joe the Plumber’s taxes.
The more I learn about this guy, the worse I feel for defending him.
Megan: “You know, Joe the Plumber (and the business he works for) couldn’t PAY for this amount of national (and international) advertising. :-)”
It turns out that he would be better off without the advertising. Joe the Plumber doesn’t have a license, so now the Toledo Plumbing Board of Control is considering whether or not to sanction him and his boss.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27221645/
Also, he won’t be buying that business any time soon. Apparently it’s only something he’s talked casually about with his boss and he only made $40,000 in 2006. Plus, the annual revenue of that business is $100,000, with the taxable income being much less. So one way or another, Obama’s tax plan would actually lower Joe the Plumber’s taxes.
The more I learn about this guy, the worse I feel for defending him.
Not being familiar with your tax system, how much tax would Joe have to pay on $40,000 pa?
Not being familiar with your tax system, how much tax would Joe have to pay on $40,000 pa?
Joe the plumber isn’t a licensed plumber. He works for a 2-man plumbing company which consists of the owner and Joe. Joe doesn’t make $250,000 a year. He hopes to buy the plumbing business in the future and possibly someday make that much money.
Right now?…he is a lackey.
And today, I spoke with an acquaintance who works at the gas station where Joe buys his gasoline…and possibly his cigarettes and beer, but that is just speculation based on my observation that too many cartons of cigarettes and cases of beer are sold at gas stations.
Joe the plumber isn’t a licensed plumber. He works for a 2-man plumbing company which consists of the owner and Joe. Joe doesn’t make $250,000 a year. He hopes to buy the plumbing business in the future and possibly someday make that much money.
Right now?…he is a lackey.
And today, I spoke with an acquaintance who works at the gas station where Joe buys his gasoline…and possibly his cigarettes and beer, but that is just speculation based on my observation that too many cartons of cigarettes and cases of beer are sold at gas stations.
Not being familiar with your tax system, how much tax would Joe have to pay on $40,000 pa?
Depending on the state taxes it could be in the 30-35% range.
Lackey or apprentice?
Lackey or apprentice?
Megan, it all depends on whether one has deductions or not. There is a standard deduction given for each account, or there are deductions that can be taken if you itemize the deductions. Those include taxes paid to the state and local governments, medical bills in excess of 7% of your gross, interest on your house loan, and several other things. Then there is a deduction for yourself and every person listed as a dependent on the form.
I just happen to have last years tax “Forms & Instructions” booklet within reach. Standard deduction is $5350, leaving 34,650. Then $3400 for a single person, leaving $31,250. Going to the back of the booklet, checking the chart shows taxes to be paid of $4239. That’s about 10.6%.
Megan, it all depends on whether one has deductions or not. There is a standard deduction given for each account, or there are deductions that can be taken if you itemize the deductions. Those include taxes paid to the state and local governments, medical bills in excess of 7% of your gross, interest on your house loan, and several other things. Then there is a deduction for yourself and every person listed as a dependent on the form.
I just happen to have last years tax “Forms & Instructions” booklet within reach. Standard deduction is $5350, leaving 34,650. Then $3400 for a single person, leaving $31,250. Going to the back of the booklet, checking the chart shows taxes to be paid of $4239. That’s about 10.6%.
Jerry Chandler wrote: “if they remembered the fad of Riverdance.”
Or Riverborg, as the case may be.
Jerry also wrote “Now, if the speaker was really old they might think of Shirley Temple, but I doubt that she’d pop into many people’s minds when the topic was politics.”
Unless they know her as Ambassador Shirley Temple Black rather than the cute little child star of the 1930s.
Rick
Actaully she did. Saw it live on the cable news today. And she added “Jane the Plumber” to the family when she did it.
Why Jane? I mean, if he were Ðìçk the Plumber, then Jane wold make sense. But his name’s Joe! Am I the only one who remembers there really WAS a famous “Josephine the Plumber?”
PAD
Actaully she did. Saw it live on the cable news today. And she added “Jane the Plumber” to the family when she did it.
Why Jane? I mean, if he were Ðìçk the Plumber, then Jane wold make sense. But his name’s Joe! Am I the only one who remembers there really WAS a famous “Josephine the Plumber?”
PAD
That’s about 10.6%.
That would be a nicer number to deal with. Adding up state, fed, payroll and other various bits (not counting savings bonds deductions) I pay about a 29% tax rate.
That’s about 10.6%.
That would be a nicer number to deal with. Adding up state, fed, payroll and other various bits (not counting savings bonds deductions) I pay about a 29% tax rate.
Now, if he happens to itemize deductions, his deduction will be more, meaning less taxes. In addition, I don’t know how many deductions he has, or if he has other household income. So the rest of this is pure speculation.
For instance, working in Toledo costs him 1.5% off the top. And I think he city of residence adds another 0.5% (most cities in this area do have city tax). The State of Ohio takes around 8% (I think it is 7.8, but not sure.). So that’s 10% off the top, $4000. If he has a home loan, he might be paying $500 a month, of which 90% is interest. That would be another $5400. So that makes the itemized deductions $10,400, lowering the taxable income to $39,600. If he has wife and 2 kids, he gets 4 x $3400 ($13,600) off that amount, which now brings him down to $26,000. Tax on $26,000 for “Married, Filing Jointly” is $3132, which is about 7.8%.
Notes for prior post: deduction level for medical expenses is the amount must be above 7.5%.
And that I figured the tax for the prior post as a single man. Correcting for being married, but no kids, another $3400 off, taxable amount is $27,850. Taxes are $3783, which is 9.5%.
Now, if he happens to itemize deductions, his deduction will be more, meaning less taxes. In addition, I don’t know how many deductions he has, or if he has other household income. So the rest of this is pure speculation.
For instance, working in Toledo costs him 1.5% off the top. And I think he city of residence adds another 0.5% (most cities in this area do have city tax). The State of Ohio takes around 8% (I think it is 7.8, but not sure.). So that’s 10% off the top, $4000. If he has a home loan, he might be paying $500 a month, of which 90% is interest. That would be another $5400. So that makes the itemized deductions $10,400, lowering the taxable income to $39,600. If he has wife and 2 kids, he gets 4 x $3400 ($13,600) off that amount, which now brings him down to $26,000. Tax on $26,000 for “Married, Filing Jointly” is $3132, which is about 7.8%.
Notes for prior post: deduction level for medical expenses is the amount must be above 7.5%.
And that I figured the tax for the prior post as a single man. Correcting for being married, but no kids, another $3400 off, taxable amount is $27,850. Taxes are $3783, which is 9.5%.
Oh I don’t doubt you—but wasn’t the “kill him!” in that clip being directed at Bill Ayers, not Obama?
That is up for debate.
But then, some right-wingers (not you, Bill) would dispute that any of this stuff is directed at Ayers, even the reported racial comments.
But there is still the video on YouTube, which I previously posted the link for, from a McCain rally in Albuquerque. McCain is talking and then immediately after he says “Who is Barack Obama”, you can hear a guy yelling what sounds like, imo, “Kill him”.
Immediately after the yelling, McCain screws his face up like he isn’t very amused with what the guy yelled, but he never disputed it.
But apparently, according to some, there’s nothing to investigate here because they guy *obviously* isn’t saying “Kill him”. It really seems like some are just looking for any excuse to make it look like they’re not standing at the edge of the cliff with the rest the nut jobs.
And I see another error I made in the second post, but I think you get the ballpark figure.
10% federal, 8% state, 2% local = 20%, but part of the state and local are also deducted if you itemize.
State tax here in Michigan is 4.1%, there are very few cities that charge local tax, and houses cost about twice as much as in Toledo and surrounding areas, where Joe lives, so the interest on the home loan is about twice as much. Basically, if you don’t have a home loan or TONS of medical expenses, you can’t itemize the deductions.
The tax rate for those below the median income (the income where half the country is above and below) is actually pretty low, but then again, you don’t really have much either. I think median income per household is $46,000 or so.
And I see another error I made in the second post, but I think you get the ballpark figure.
10% federal, 8% state, 2% local = 20%, but part of the state and local are also deducted if you itemize.
State tax here in Michigan is 4.1%, there are very few cities that charge local tax, and houses cost about twice as much as in Toledo and surrounding areas, where Joe lives, so the interest on the home loan is about twice as much. Basically, if you don’t have a home loan or TONS of medical expenses, you can’t itemize the deductions.
The tax rate for those below the median income (the income where half the country is above and below) is actually pretty low, but then again, you don’t really have much either. I think median income per household is $46,000 or so.
Lackey is actually a harsh word for someone I don’t know, so let’s change it to employee.
To be an apprentice requires thousands of hours of actual work, plus nearly a thousand hours of school. But I think you can also get a tradesperson card by working at that trade for 8 years under the supervision of a licensed tradesperson, which is what Joe is attempting. If Joe’s boss isn’t licensed, Joe might not qualify.
That would be most unfortunate, because even though Joe is going to vote wrong, I believe every honest person deserves to try to find a good way to make a living.
Bill Mulligan: “Oh I don’t doubt you—but wasn’t the ‘kill him!’ in that clip being directed at Bill Ayers, not Obama?”
The person shouted out “kill him!” The “him” was never made explicit. I don’t believe the shouter was identified, either. Who he was referring to is unknown. But it’s troubling no matter who the shouter had in mind.
Bill Mulligan: “But just for the record, since this is the meme that many, including some on this board have championed–is there any evidence of people at McCain/Palin rallies actually calling for death to Obama? Or is this just more conventional wisdom that we don’t need to check up on?”
Someone at a Palin rally shouted “kill him” in response to Palin’s unabashed attempt to incite the crowd by linking Obama to terrorism committed when he was a young child. There have been other documented incidents where McCain supporters displayed anger that was somewhat less intense but nevertheless troubling. In fact, the problem was getting so far out of hand that McCain himself was forced to begin backing away from his own rhetoric.
As for “conventional wisdom” no one needs to check up on — well, if no one is checking up on it then how did you find out the story about the Scranton incident discredited? (Pssst, Bill — you read about it in the news.)
============================================
It seems that McCain’s repeated references to Joe the Plumber are creating yet another unproductive distraction. I’m beginning to feel sorry for McCain — he and his campaign handlers can’t seem to do ANYTHING right.
It seems that McCain’s repeated references to Joe the Plumber are creating yet another unproductive distraction. I’m beginning to feel sorry for McCain — he and his campaign handlers can’t seem to do ANYTHING right.
But they’re gonna try. The latest is a sad as it is funny. McCain and Palin are pushing “Joe the Plumber” hard to the crowds and making him a big deal. Okay, that’s sorta fair if Joe doesn’t mind it that much. But the fun thing is that, duh, anything that’s new and unkown is going to be checked with a fine tooth comb by the media. The cast their eyes towards Joe and have found out a lot of stuff that Joe likely didn’t want to get out and that makes Joe a much less powerful tool for mcCain and his camp.
The McCain answer?
His people and his supporters in the media are talking about how the Dems and the evil drive-by media are attacking, smeering belittling Joe and by extension attacking the hardworking common man.
(Rolls eyes yet again.)
It seems that McCain’s repeated references to Joe the Plumber are creating yet another unproductive distraction. I’m beginning to feel sorry for McCain — he and his campaign handlers can’t seem to do ANYTHING right.
But they’re gonna try. The latest is a sad as it is funny. McCain and Palin are pushing “Joe the Plumber” hard to the crowds and making him a big deal. Okay, that’s sorta fair if Joe doesn’t mind it that much. But the fun thing is that, duh, anything that’s new and unkown is going to be checked with a fine tooth comb by the media. The cast their eyes towards Joe and have found out a lot of stuff that Joe likely didn’t want to get out and that makes Joe a much less powerful tool for mcCain and his camp.
The McCain answer?
His people and his supporters in the media are talking about how the Dems and the evil drive-by media are attacking, smeering belittling Joe and by extension attacking the hardworking common man.
(Rolls eyes yet again.)
He can’t be called an apprentice. He never did an apprenticeship, and he isn’t doing one now. He’s an unlicensed guy who does plumbing.
As for the tap-dancing remark…there is just something about the image of Sammy Davis, Jr. tap-dancing that, when compared with Obama answering questions, simply sets off my oh-no-he-di’nt alarm. (“Why did he need to go and bring up Sammy Davis, Jr.? BECAUSE HE’S BLACK, GET IT?”) For some reason the image of Gregory Hines doesn’t quite push the same button. He didn’t really need to name a specific dancer; the metaphor of tap-dancing around the question was stupid enough.
Meanwhile, Joe Unlicensed also waxes culture-warrior about how Obama “speaks so well.” As Chris Rock pointed out, “he speaks so well” isn’t what you say about a serious political candidate. That’s what you say about a retarded child, and nobody talks about white politicians that way. Until this afternoon, I was certain that Wurzelbacher’s appearance must have been a coincidence, and I didn’t agree with the people suggesting that he’s a plant, but after I saw his own words, I really have to wonder. He talks about Obama in exactly the way McCain/Palin would like us to hear, and he’s related to Charles Keating. If I found out that McCain called up Sam Wurzelbacher and instructed him to “go ask That One some tougher questions,” it wouldn’t surprise me in the least.
Not that I’m going to bet money on it, but…with the way this campaign’s been going, it really wouldn’t surprise me.
He can’t be called an apprentice. He never did an apprenticeship, and he isn’t doing one now. He’s an unlicensed guy who does plumbing.
As for the tap-dancing remark…there is just something about the image of Sammy Davis, Jr. tap-dancing that, when compared with Obama answering questions, simply sets off my oh-no-he-di’nt alarm. (“Why did he need to go and bring up Sammy Davis, Jr.? BECAUSE HE’S BLACK, GET IT?”) For some reason the image of Gregory Hines doesn’t quite push the same button. He didn’t really need to name a specific dancer; the metaphor of tap-dancing around the question was stupid enough.
Meanwhile, Joe Unlicensed also waxes culture-warrior about how Obama “speaks so well.” As Chris Rock pointed out, “he speaks so well” isn’t what you say about a serious political candidate. That’s what you say about a retarded child, and nobody talks about white politicians that way. Until this afternoon, I was certain that Wurzelbacher’s appearance must have been a coincidence, and I didn’t agree with the people suggesting that he’s a plant, but after I saw his own words, I really have to wonder. He talks about Obama in exactly the way McCain/Palin would like us to hear, and he’s related to Charles Keating. If I found out that McCain called up Sam Wurzelbacher and instructed him to “go ask That One some tougher questions,” it wouldn’t surprise me in the least.
Not that I’m going to bet money on it, but…with the way this campaign’s been going, it really wouldn’t surprise me.
I can’t imagine Joe the Plumber being a plant. He didn’t actually say anything all that interesting when he talked to Obama. The only reason that moment got any play at all is because Obama used the phrase, “Spread the wealth around.” That phrase has a lot of negative conotations and it wasn’t a great choice of words from Obama.
And again, Joe is related to Charles Keating, something McCain doesn’t want back in the news. I know that “lack of vetting” doesn’t rule something out with the McCain campaign, but it does make it a little less likely.
I can’t imagine Joe the Plumber being a plant. He didn’t actually say anything all that interesting when he talked to Obama. The only reason that moment got any play at all is because Obama used the phrase, “Spread the wealth around.” That phrase has a lot of negative conotations and it wasn’t a great choice of words from Obama.
And again, Joe is related to Charles Keating, something McCain doesn’t want back in the news. I know that “lack of vetting” doesn’t rule something out with the McCain campaign, but it does make it a little less likely.
Alyson: (“Why did he need to go and bring up Sammy Davis, Jr.? BECAUSE HE’S BLACK, GET IT?”)
Yeah, or he just doesn’t know a lot about tap dancing and named one of the more famous tap dancers in his lifetime.
As Chris Rock pointed out, “he speaks so well” isn’t what you say about a serious political candidate.
Joe Biden: “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” Biden said. “I mean, that’s a storybook, man.”
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/31/biden.obama/
Yep, that Joe Biden really is a bášŧárd.