Presidential Debate Mark III

446 comments on “Presidential Debate Mark III”

1. Totally agreed in principle, but how technologically feasible are those solutions at the moment?

   I profess to know less than I’d like about the topic but it seems that all, save those who are strictly opposed to nuclear energy, agree that safety measures across the board have come a long, long way since the last reactors built here in the US.

   In the end, there are groups that outright refuse to let the rest of the world find out about these solutions, because they’ll never stand for them, regardless.

2. I really didn’t understand McCain’s bit about putting vets to work as teachers without certification. It just kind of slipped out there and I haven’t really seen anyone talking about it. In no way does it make sense to me to take people who’ve just been in a war zone and may be suffering from PTSD in a room full of rowdy kids without any sort of training or certification. Why would we loosen requirements for teachers at a time when we need to strengthen them? Why would a soldier be automatically qualified? If anyone can explain this as anything other than complete BS and an attempt to appeal to vets please enlighten me.

   First let’s ramp down the automatic assumption that vets are likely to have mental problems. If I had to hazard a guess I would say that a random member of the military would be several orders of magnitude better fit for the classroom than someone randomly picked from a crowd.

   I would base this in part on my experience here. We have something called lateral entry. basically it lets people with life experience teach while they take classes on how to teach.

   Now you may be wondering “Isn’t that kind of backwards…I mean, if the guy or gal is doing a goodjob teaching why do they need to take classes on how to do a good job teaching?” And right you would be. In fact, the reason we lose so many of the lateral entry people is that they get sick of the hoops they have to jump through, up to and including the madness of having to student teach after they have already had 3+ years of actual teaching. The whole point of student teaching is to introduce you to an actual classroom experience. Kind of dumb to have a guy teaching two classes and then having to run off and “student teach” two other classes. It’s like hiring a surgeon and then after a few years demanding they be a part time intern when they aren’t running the neurology clinic.

   So if McCain’s idea is to make it easier for vets to get into the profession, good call. Those people tend to have good discipline, organization and attitude. Despite the stereotype they seem no more likely to snap in class than a regular person. Even less likely, in my experience. It’s unlikely a bunch of surely teens are going to scare them.

   Now if he’s just saying let them in with no training in their subject…that doesn’t make sense. But Tim, back me up here, do you think the “teaching” classes you took were wroth the trouble? I learned more in the first week of student teaching than I ever learned in a classroom being told what it would be like (though I did enjoy some of my classes on a purely intellectual level).

3. Actually, I haven’t taken any “teaching” classes per se. Lots of professional development and lots of working with mentors at whatever school I was working at at the time, but working in independent schools I didn’t have to take the classes in question.

   Of the friends of mine who did, however, many of them felt that they were not generally worth the trouble, for exactly the reasons you just said. Personally, I think it would be an interesting idea to have a few of those classes AFTER you’ve taught for a few months or a year, so that you can apply specific situations to the theoretical constructs you’re discussing.

   TWL

4. Actually, I haven’t taken any “teaching” classes per se. Lots of professional development and lots of working with mentors at whatever school I was working at at the time, but working in independent schools I didn’t have to take the classes in question.

   Of the friends of mine who did, however, many of them felt that they were not generally worth the trouble, for exactly the reasons you just said. Personally, I think it would be an interesting idea to have a few of those classes AFTER you’ve taught for a few months or a year, so that you can apply specific situations to the theoretical constructs you’re discussing.

   TWL

5. Wasn’t able to comment before now because I was watching the recap on CNN after the debate ended, and then the Colbert Report, and then I needed to sleep. But I’m here now, supporting Kathleen!

   Kathleen: 9:11 Can we stop talking about Joe the Plumber? How many times has McCain said Joe the Plumber? (Yes folks it is the new My Friends)

   I just got to that point and I was thinking “you poor, poor woman. You’re going to have to sit through a lot more talk about Joe!”

   9:19 He got the Planetarium in again. That projector is a great over simplification of what that object was.

   I’m sick of hearing about it too. When he started talking about that I went “oh my GOD!”

   9:28 Obama better get a handle on this quick and there he goes. McCain doesn’t sound happy about what he is saying either. Just don’t say that you started it.

   It would be true, though. What the hëll is McCain’s problem re. the town hall meetings, could somebody explain that to me? As I understand it, he said “hey, let’s do some town hall meetings instead of the usual stuff.” Obama first responded “sure.” Then he said “sorry, I changed my mind.” Then McCain said “he changed his MIND? That BÃSTÃRÐ! Okay, now it’s ON and we show him no mercy!!!” This makes no sense to me, and if anybody could explain why McCain considers it such a horrible offense for Obama to not do town hall meetings (plural) with him, I’d appreciate it.

   There was also the public financing thing. And yeah, if McCain thought it wasn’t cool for Obama to say he would accept public financing and then go the opposite route, I agree that it’s not cool. But even that isn’t justification for the way McCain’s been attacking him.

   10:27 McCain blinking like crazy.

   I noticed that too. There was also some rolling of the eyes and some loud sighs, and if those things hurt Gore then they can’t be good for McCain. While McCain never blew up, he looked VERY unhappy throughout much the of the debate. The man has issues.

   He seemed petulant at points.

   That’s John McCain.

   Best moments of the night, IMO, was when McCain was talking about the importance of fighting autism and Obama started his response by saying that fighting autism is very important, but it costs money, and McCain’s “spending freeze” idea would make it impossible to fight autism. Right there, McCain threw a fastball right down the middle of the plate for Obama and Obama knocked it out of the park.

   The other moment I liked, and had to laugh at, came after McCain brought up the fine. He’s been very annoying, the way he keeps asking “what’s the fine gonna be? We still haven’t heard about that fine. I wonder if Senator Obama will tell us what he’s going to fine people.” When Obama talked to Joe and said “here’s what your fine’s gonna be: zero,” McCain’s response was priceless. “ZERO???” He looked totally astonished, with some upset mixed in. That’s not a Presidential look, not even close to one. I loved that moment.

   I also noticed that there were times when Obama did what Adam-Troy Castro suggested in the McCainism thread here: when McCain talked about something, he shook his head sadly. I thought that was effective.

6. Wasn’t able to comment before now because I was watching the recap on CNN after the debate ended, and then the Colbert Report, and then I needed to sleep. But I’m here now, supporting Kathleen!

   Kathleen: 9:11 Can we stop talking about Joe the Plumber? How many times has McCain said Joe the Plumber? (Yes folks it is the new My Friends)

   I just got to that point and I was thinking “you poor, poor woman. You’re going to have to sit through a lot more talk about Joe!”

   9:19 He got the Planetarium in again. That projector is a great over simplification of what that object was.

   I’m sick of hearing about it too. When he started talking about that I went “oh my GOD!”

   9:28 Obama better get a handle on this quick and there he goes. McCain doesn’t sound happy about what he is saying either. Just don’t say that you started it.

   It would be true, though. What the hëll is McCain’s problem re. the town hall meetings, could somebody explain that to me? As I understand it, he said “hey, let’s do some town hall meetings instead of the usual stuff.” Obama first responded “sure.” Then he said “sorry, I changed my mind.” Then McCain said “he changed his MIND? That BÃSTÃRÐ! Okay, now it’s ON and we show him no mercy!!!” This makes no sense to me, and if anybody could explain why McCain considers it such a horrible offense for Obama to not do town hall meetings (plural) with him, I’d appreciate it.

   There was also the public financing thing. And yeah, if McCain thought it wasn’t cool for Obama to say he would accept public financing and then go the opposite route, I agree that it’s not cool. But even that isn’t justification for the way McCain’s been attacking him.

   10:27 McCain blinking like crazy.

   I noticed that too. There was also some rolling of the eyes and some loud sighs, and if those things hurt Gore then they can’t be good for McCain. While McCain never blew up, he looked VERY unhappy throughout much the of the debate. The man has issues.

   He seemed petulant at points.

   That’s John McCain.

   Best moments of the night, IMO, was when McCain was talking about the importance of fighting autism and Obama started his response by saying that fighting autism is very important, but it costs money, and McCain’s “spending freeze” idea would make it impossible to fight autism. Right there, McCain threw a fastball right down the middle of the plate for Obama and Obama knocked it out of the park.

   The other moment I liked, and had to laugh at, came after McCain brought up the fine. He’s been very annoying, the way he keeps asking “what’s the fine gonna be? We still haven’t heard about that fine. I wonder if Senator Obama will tell us what he’s going to fine people.” When Obama talked to Joe and said “here’s what your fine’s gonna be: zero,” McCain’s response was priceless. “ZERO???” He looked totally astonished, with some upset mixed in. That’s not a Presidential look, not even close to one. I loved that moment.

   I also noticed that there were times when Obama did what Adam-Troy Castro suggested in the McCainism thread here: when McCain talked about something, he shook his head sadly. I thought that was effective.

7. 10:25 And he is bring in Autism again for what purpose?

   Because McCain doesn’t know the difference between Autism and Down Syndrome, and thinks because Trig has Downs she can now be an expert.

   Palin’s sister has a child with autism. that doesn’t make her an expert but I don’t think he was confusing autism and Down Syndrome.

   Kudzu, believe it or not, tastes great.

   i didn’t believe it but you are correct, apparently (haven’t actually checked it out and I think the growing season is ending. I’ll test out the young leaves come spring). Well, at least i know if the global economy collapses I’ll be able to eat. Sorry for those of you in areas without invasive biological species. Have fun with all the cannibalism.

8. Jasonk: Just watched the Daily show. is that what Peter talks like when he’s not at conventions? scary 😉

   I felt bad for both John Stewart and Richard Lewis. I felt bad for John because, obviously, it was uncomfortable for him. I felt bad for Lewis because I know that he’s not always like that (he wasn’t like that the last time he was on the show), and if he watches footage of himself on the show today then he’s going to be embarassed as hëll.

   What the hëll was going on with him? Did he snort a lot of coke before going out there? Is he just so upset about the election that he regularly loses it like that? Whatever the reason was, it was really sad and painful to watch.

9. Jasonk: Just watched the Daily show. is that what Peter talks like when he’s not at conventions? scary 😉

   I felt bad for both John Stewart and Richard Lewis. I felt bad for John because, obviously, it was uncomfortable for him. I felt bad for Lewis because I know that he’s not always like that (he wasn’t like that the last time he was on the show), and if he watches footage of himself on the show today then he’s going to be embarassed as hëll.

   What the hëll was going on with him? Did he snort a lot of coke before going out there? Is he just so upset about the election that he regularly loses it like that? Whatever the reason was, it was really sad and painful to watch.

10. There are several perfectly-sound methods for disposing of nuclear waste – like sealing it in ceramic and dumping it in a subduction zone – which are Not Allowed because people who know nothing go all twitchy when the word “nuclear” comes up. (Had Congress actually been willing to fund a real surface-to-orbit cargo system, and NASA not caved politically, giving us the Shuttle, we could just dump it in the Sun or put it on a Solar escape trajectory…)

    I have to agree with Jerry Pournelle on this (and there’s darn little I agree with Pournelle on!) – we don’t necessarily want to get rid of those “wastes”. Remember that until Ford’s development of cheap cars, gasoline was a waste product of kerosene production – Ford selected it as his fuel because it had the necessary energy density, and was cheap (the controlling factor on almost all matters pertaining to the construction of the Tin Lizzy). I also liked Pournelle’s idea for storage – cast the materials into concrete blocks, then built a sheet-metal shelter for them, say around Frenchman Flats (can’t complain about residual radiation there – used to be a nuclear-bomb test site!), surround the site with a triple fence at a safe distance, and every ten feet or so, put signs in multiple languages, reading “IF YOU CROSS THIS FENCE, YOU WILL DIE.” The security is self-enforcing…

    Glad I turned the debate off early, and didn’t catch McCain claiming that Palin was some sort of expert on autism, or I’d have been throwing things. Look, I have Asperger’s Syndrome, my daughter has classic Kanner’s autism – and none of this means any of my family members have the first freaking CLUE of what autism is, or how best to deal with it (with the exception of my mother – my sister is also autistic). I have had considerable experience with people with varying degrees of Down’s Syndrome, including an old family friend, and I can assure you that Down’s =/= autism, in any way, shape, or form.

    Sorry, I’m a bit touchy on that subject…

11. There are several perfectly-sound methods for disposing of nuclear waste – like sealing it in ceramic and dumping it in a subduction zone – which are Not Allowed because people who know nothing go all twitchy when the word “nuclear” comes up. (Had Congress actually been willing to fund a real surface-to-orbit cargo system, and NASA not caved politically, giving us the Shuttle, we could just dump it in the Sun or put it on a Solar escape trajectory…)

    I have to agree with Jerry Pournelle on this (and there’s darn little I agree with Pournelle on!) – we don’t necessarily want to get rid of those “wastes”. Remember that until Ford’s development of cheap cars, gasoline was a waste product of kerosene production – Ford selected it as his fuel because it had the necessary energy density, and was cheap (the controlling factor on almost all matters pertaining to the construction of the Tin Lizzy). I also liked Pournelle’s idea for storage – cast the materials into concrete blocks, then built a sheet-metal shelter for them, say around Frenchman Flats (can’t complain about residual radiation there – used to be a nuclear-bomb test site!), surround the site with a triple fence at a safe distance, and every ten feet or so, put signs in multiple languages, reading “IF YOU CROSS THIS FENCE, YOU WILL DIE.” The security is self-enforcing…

    Glad I turned the debate off early, and didn’t catch McCain claiming that Palin was some sort of expert on autism, or I’d have been throwing things. Look, I have Asperger’s Syndrome, my daughter has classic Kanner’s autism – and none of this means any of my family members have the first freaking CLUE of what autism is, or how best to deal with it (with the exception of my mother – my sister is also autistic). I have had considerable experience with people with varying degrees of Down’s Syndrome, including an old family friend, and I can assure you that Down’s =/= autism, in any way, shape, or form.

    Sorry, I’m a bit touchy on that subject…

12. Rob, I saw Richard Lewis on Countdown the other day and he was *exactly* the same.

    I think he’s just really, really worked up about this election and he knows that no TV show he goes on is going to give him the 3 hours that he wants to talk about it. So he tries to cram as much as possible into the six minutes they will give him and he ends up looking maniacal. Obviously he’d be more effective if he actually composed his thoughts and slowed down enough to deliver them clearly, but I suspect that anyone who tells him that won’t get through. He’s probably too worked up to even understand what he’s doing.

    The funny part is, there really is no point. Perhaps he’s doing interviews like this elsewhere, but preaching against McCain on Countdown and the Daily Show is preaching to the choir.

13. Rob, I saw Richard Lewis on Countdown the other day and he was *exactly* the same.

    I think he’s just really, really worked up about this election and he knows that no TV show he goes on is going to give him the 3 hours that he wants to talk about it. So he tries to cram as much as possible into the six minutes they will give him and he ends up looking maniacal. Obviously he’d be more effective if he actually composed his thoughts and slowed down enough to deliver them clearly, but I suspect that anyone who tells him that won’t get through. He’s probably too worked up to even understand what he’s doing.

    The funny part is, there really is no point. Perhaps he’s doing interviews like this elsewhere, but preaching against McCain on Countdown and the Daily Show is preaching to the choir.

14. Palin’s sister has a child with autism. that doesn’t make her an expert but I don’t think he was confusing autism and Down Syndrome.

    Fair enough.

    But didn’t also say that Palin has more experience with special needs kids than almost any american he’s ever known? or something to that effect?

    She’s had a special needs child for 5 months at most knew about it for another 7 months before giving bith that he had downs. If that, and a neice is autistic. If that’s the level of expertise than this is the only person John McCain has ever known who has experience with special needs kids.

15. Down’s syndrome runs the gamut in abilities, and while it doesn’t equal autism, autism can occur in Down’s, and believe me, you don’t want that. I worked with a kid like that for 6 years. He had caring parents, but he was institutionalized with very good reasons.

    Tim Lynch: I think a lot of the gen-ed courses are far more rigmarole than they’re worth much of the time.

    You ain’t kidding! I sat through hours of teaching philosophy classes that bordered on lunacy, and when I got to the real world, was told, Oh, that’s not how it works. I went into the SpEd classes with a bachelors and three years as an acting teacher with hard-core kids, and not one of those classes pertained in the least to my class – the only thing you learn is about the nice kid who tries hard but still can’t read. I will never forget the face of the student next to me on hearing her future students might not be toilet trained, or might pinch, when I was used to dodging flying chairs and feces. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall at her student teachings! I really think if they cut out half the BS and replaced it with classroom experience, or at least real-world experience, we’d have teachers who were far better prepared.

16. Down’s syndrome runs the gamut in abilities, and while it doesn’t equal autism, autism can occur in Down’s, and believe me, you don’t want that. I worked with a kid like that for 6 years. He had caring parents, but he was institutionalized with very good reasons.

    Tim Lynch: I think a lot of the gen-ed courses are far more rigmarole than they’re worth much of the time.

    You ain’t kidding! I sat through hours of teaching philosophy classes that bordered on lunacy, and when I got to the real world, was told, Oh, that’s not how it works. I went into the SpEd classes with a bachelors and three years as an acting teacher with hard-core kids, and not one of those classes pertained in the least to my class – the only thing you learn is about the nice kid who tries hard but still can’t read. I will never forget the face of the student next to me on hearing her future students might not be toilet trained, or might pinch, when I was used to dodging flying chairs and feces. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall at her student teachings! I really think if they cut out half the BS and replaced it with classroom experience, or at least real-world experience, we’d have teachers who were far better prepared.

17. On the teacher certification issue, why would Soldiers be a special case? That’s what is confusing about what McCain said, why would we fast track vets getting to be teachers, as opposed to anyone else?

18. On the teacher certification issue, why would Soldiers be a special case? That’s what is confusing about what McCain said, why would we fast track vets getting to be teachers, as opposed to anyone else?

19. I’ve no idea why soldiers would be a special case, but maybe McCain feels some affinity for them. He was a POW, you know.

20. I’ve no idea why soldiers would be a special case, but maybe McCain feels some affinity for them. He was a POW, you know.

21. I’ve no idea why soldiers would be a special case, but maybe McCain feels some affinity for them. He was a POW, you know.

    Really? I hadn’t heard He should be doing more to put that story out there.

    PAD

22. I just want to say one thing about Joe the Plumber.

    Joe is a guy who disagrees with Obama, but went to his rally and politely asked him about an issue. Even though a lot of us might disagree with Joe on some things, I respect that he’s trying to get all the facts and judge things for himself. That’s the kind of person I don’t mind having a disagreement with.

23. I just want to say one thing about Joe the Plumber.

    Joe is a guy who disagrees with Obama, but went to his rally and politely asked him about an issue. Even though a lot of us might disagree with Joe on some things, I respect that he’s trying to get all the facts and judge things for himself. That’s the kind of person I don’t mind having a disagreement with.

24. 9:52 Point for McCain for pointing out that Obama has never been to South America. Has Bush?

    And points back to Obama by going into detail about the situation in Colombia, why he opposed the legislation in question, and referencing a similar situation with another South American country. Not only did he effectively rebut McCain’s accusation of not knowing what was going on in the South America, he presented himself as more knowledgeable than the man who brought up the topic. McCain is quite clearly taken aback at Obama’s perspicacity and alacrity.

25. 9:52 Point for McCain for pointing out that Obama has never been to South America. Has Bush?

    And points back to Obama by going into detail about the situation in Colombia, why he opposed the legislation in question, and referencing a similar situation with another South American country. Not only did he effectively rebut McCain’s accusation of not knowing what was going on in the South America, he presented himself as more knowledgeable than the man who brought up the topic. McCain is quite clearly taken aback at Obama’s perspicacity and alacrity.

26. Yeah, as a parent of children on the Autism Spectrum, I screamed profanities at the TV when McCain invoked Autism in support of his campaign. My wife pointed out that our children were still awake, and that if I couldn’t control my language, I’d not be able to continue watching the debate. 🙂

27. Yeah, as a parent of children on the Autism Spectrum, I screamed profanities at the TV when McCain invoked Autism in support of his campaign. My wife pointed out that our children were still awake, and that if I couldn’t control my language, I’d not be able to continue watching the debate. 🙂

28. All through the debate last night I was thinking “wow, this guy doesn’t want to spend money on ANYthing. Except the military. And the war in Iraq.”

    The situation right now is bad. McCain seems to feel that any solution which would require anybody to pay more in taxes (even guys making over a quarter million bucks annually, like our plumber friend) is unacceptable.

    He talked about Obama throwing money at the problem. In my book, throwing money at the problem is better than doing nothing about the problem. You spend money to try and solve it. If that doesn’t work, you spend money on trying a different solution.

    There are some things which are WORTH spending money on. Finding new sources of energy. Education. Health care. It’s a choice between not getting any improvement in any of these areas, or having some people pay more taxes. It should be a no-brainer…right?

    Jason M. Bryant: Rob, I saw Richard Lewis on Countdown the other day and he was *exactly* the same.

    Wow.

    Okay, I understand why he’d want to talk a lot about this stuff, but last night he was jumping from subject to subject to subject (often in the same breath) and it was hard to follow what he was saying. I got some of it…like “hey, I can see Catalina from where I live, I should run for Governor of Catalina” and I knew that was a reference to Palin and Russia being visible from Alaska…and when he said this whole thing is a joke, he’s right…but mostly he was all over the place. Often I had no idea WHAT he was talking about.

    And for the love of God, man, it’s an interview, not a monologue. Let John talk a little bit.

29. All through the debate last night I was thinking “wow, this guy doesn’t want to spend money on ANYthing. Except the military. And the war in Iraq.”

    The situation right now is bad. McCain seems to feel that any solution which would require anybody to pay more in taxes (even guys making over a quarter million bucks annually, like our plumber friend) is unacceptable.

    He talked about Obama throwing money at the problem. In my book, throwing money at the problem is better than doing nothing about the problem. You spend money to try and solve it. If that doesn’t work, you spend money on trying a different solution.

    There are some things which are WORTH spending money on. Finding new sources of energy. Education. Health care. It’s a choice between not getting any improvement in any of these areas, or having some people pay more taxes. It should be a no-brainer…right?

    Jason M. Bryant: Rob, I saw Richard Lewis on Countdown the other day and he was *exactly* the same.

    Wow.

    Okay, I understand why he’d want to talk a lot about this stuff, but last night he was jumping from subject to subject to subject (often in the same breath) and it was hard to follow what he was saying. I got some of it…like “hey, I can see Catalina from where I live, I should run for Governor of Catalina” and I knew that was a reference to Palin and Russia being visible from Alaska…and when he said this whole thing is a joke, he’s right…but mostly he was all over the place. Often I had no idea WHAT he was talking about.

    And for the love of God, man, it’s an interview, not a monologue. Let John talk a little bit.

30. “There are some things which are WORTH spending money on. Finding new sources of energy. Education. Health care. It’s a choice between not getting any improvement in any of these areas, or having some people pay more taxes. It should be a no-brainer…right?”

    Wrong.

    To some Americans, it’s a ideological, almost religious matter. Anything that might look like socialism is outrageous. It’s funny that McCain is still coming across as a extreme free market kind of a guy, even after the finantial crisis caused by excessive deregulation. Old habits die hard, apparently.

    Sometimes it seems like the Republicans’s solution to everything is to give the rich all the breaks, and then just wait for the good stuff to “trickle down” to the poor, as it should according to the holy doctrine of the free market.

    But there are polls that say that average Americans are starting to think that this trickle down business is bûllšhìŧ. And that is one of the reasons Obama is ahead.

31. “There are some things which are WORTH spending money on. Finding new sources of energy. Education. Health care. It’s a choice between not getting any improvement in any of these areas, or having some people pay more taxes. It should be a no-brainer…right?”

    Wrong.

    To some Americans, it’s a ideological, almost religious matter. Anything that might look like socialism is outrageous. It’s funny that McCain is still coming across as a extreme free market kind of a guy, even after the finantial crisis caused by excessive deregulation. Old habits die hard, apparently.

    Sometimes it seems like the Republicans’s solution to everything is to give the rich all the breaks, and then just wait for the good stuff to “trickle down” to the poor, as it should according to the holy doctrine of the free market.

    But there are polls that say that average Americans are starting to think that this trickle down business is bûllšhìŧ. And that is one of the reasons Obama is ahead.

32. He’s on the drugs again…

    Rush Limbaugh: “David Brooks said Obama is a mountain. The Fox All-Stars have all talked about how cool Obama is. I don’t see cool; I see cold. I see somebody who’s not really human, who’s devoid of passion or feelings. Obama is a programmed robot. He just wants to win. He’s like a Stepford husband. He’s really a cold customer.”

    “McCain won the debate, but the Drive-Bys (even Fred Barnes and the “Fox News All-Stars”) deny reality. These people and Katie Couric and Anne Kornblut aren’t America. Joe and Josephine the Plumbers are America.”

    “There’s a lot of pressure to stand out in your post-debate analysis, and if you happen to be a conservative media elitist, one of the greatest ways to stand out is to rip your own party, candidate, and ideology so the Drive-Bys notice you. If you work at the NY Times and Fox News, well, there’s a balancing act there, too.”

    Wow… So now, in Rush’s world, even Fox News is anti-McCain, anti-Conservative and pro-Obama.

    Kids, THIS ^ is your brain on drugs. Get the picture?

33. You know, they have a box on the tax form asking if you want to donate a dollar to the Presidential campaign. Why can’t they have that for, say, a list of 10 different major government funded projects? I would gladly pay an extra $5 in taxes if I knew it WAS going to the space program, if it WAS going to fund medical care for uninsured children, if it WAS going to improve education, if it WAS going to buy armor for the troops, etc, and not thrown into a general fund where my project gets 10 cents and the pork takes 90% of the haul. That is, above and beyond the regular budget.

    Kind of like a bakesale, without the calories and risk of allergies.

34. You know, they have a box on the tax form asking if you want to donate a dollar to the Presidential campaign. Why can’t they have that for, say, a list of 10 different major government funded projects? I would gladly pay an extra $5 in taxes if I knew it WAS going to the space program, if it WAS going to fund medical care for uninsured children, if it WAS going to improve education, if it WAS going to buy armor for the troops, etc, and not thrown into a general fund where my project gets 10 cents and the pork takes 90% of the haul. That is, above and beyond the regular budget.

    Kind of like a bakesale, without the calories and risk of allergies.

35. Very well said, Susan. I’d love the same thing.

36. Very well said, Susan. I’d love the same thing.

37. Posted by Alyson Miers

    When that day comes I’m totally going into the kudzu farming business, using my never fail 3 step kudzu farming technique…

    Actually, you know what, that sounds like a plan!

    Dudes, I didn’t know you could get biofuel from kudzu! That šhìŧ may yet save the world!

    Notice i said “once they get the bugs into it” – biomass like kudzu is not a very efficient source yet; but they are working on (and, if i’ve read the mnost recent articles correctly, ought to be able to start actual production with in a few years) microbes that digest the cellulose in the biomass feedstock (like the bugs that live in a cow’s tummy) into fermentable sugars. There’s a fair amount of sugars in kudzu already, but not enough.

    I have to disagree with the kudzu-farming method espoused in the previous post – the proper technique is:

    1. Buy land south of Virginia.
    2. Do nothing
    3. Harvest kudzu.

    Posted by Jerry Chandler

    Bill Mulligan: “Sanford North Carolina will be the energy capital of the world!”

    And a source of great salad fixings. Kudzu, believe it or not, tastes great.

    Kudzu tempura is supposed to be very good.

    (Hint: When picking Kudzu for salad; it really helps to know the difference between kudzu and poison ivy.)

    Yeah. See: http://xkcd.com/443/

    Posted by Jonathan (the other one)

    I have to agree with Jerry Pournelle on this (and there’s darn little I agree with Pournelle on!)

    Me, too. Though i do recall that at one SF WorldCon, when i finally discovered the identity of the only other person in the audience who was asking the members of the “Libertarian Space Panel” questions they didn’t want to answer, it was Pournelle…

    we don’t necessarily want to get rid of those “wastes”. Remember that until Ford’s development of cheap cars, gasoline was a waste product of kerosene production – Ford selected it as his fuel because it had the necessary energy density, and was cheap (the controlling factor on almost all matters pertaining to the construction of the Tin Lizzy).

    Acutally, it was also available because it was used for dry-cleaning, apparently. Bill Mauldin and his older brother had a Model T that would run fine on kerosene once it was warmed up, so they’d start it on gasolins and after a few minutes switch over to kerosene…

    I also liked Pournelle’s idea for storage – cast the materials into concrete blocks, then built a sheet-metal shelter for them, say around Frenchman Flats (can’t complain about residual radiation there – used to be a nuclear-bomb test site!), surround the site with a triple fence at a safe distance, and every ten feet or so, put signs in multiple languages, reading “IF YOU CROSS THIS FENCE, YOU WILL DIE.” The security is self-enforcing…

    I like that one too, actually. I would still prefer vitrification to concrete, because solid blocks of ceramic are less likely to allow Bad Things to leach out into groundwater…

38. Posted by Alyson Miers

    When that day comes I’m totally going into the kudzu farming business, using my never fail 3 step kudzu farming technique…

    Actually, you know what, that sounds like a plan!

    Dudes, I didn’t know you could get biofuel from kudzu! That šhìŧ may yet save the world!

    Notice i said “once they get the bugs into it” – biomass like kudzu is not a very efficient source yet; but they are working on (and, if i’ve read the mnost recent articles correctly, ought to be able to start actual production with in a few years) microbes that digest the cellulose in the biomass feedstock (like the bugs that live in a cow’s tummy) into fermentable sugars. There’s a fair amount of sugars in kudzu already, but not enough.

    I have to disagree with the kudzu-farming method espoused in the previous post – the proper technique is:

    1. Buy land south of Virginia.
    2. Do nothing
    3. Harvest kudzu.

    Posted by Jerry Chandler

    Bill Mulligan: “Sanford North Carolina will be the energy capital of the world!”

    And a source of great salad fixings. Kudzu, believe it or not, tastes great.

    Kudzu tempura is supposed to be very good.

    (Hint: When picking Kudzu for salad; it really helps to know the difference between kudzu and poison ivy.)

    Yeah. See: http://xkcd.com/443/

    Posted by Jonathan (the other one)

    I have to agree with Jerry Pournelle on this (and there’s darn little I agree with Pournelle on!)

    Me, too. Though i do recall that at one SF WorldCon, when i finally discovered the identity of the only other person in the audience who was asking the members of the “Libertarian Space Panel” questions they didn’t want to answer, it was Pournelle…

    we don’t necessarily want to get rid of those “wastes”. Remember that until Ford’s development of cheap cars, gasoline was a waste product of kerosene production – Ford selected it as his fuel because it had the necessary energy density, and was cheap (the controlling factor on almost all matters pertaining to the construction of the Tin Lizzy).

    Acutally, it was also available because it was used for dry-cleaning, apparently. Bill Mauldin and his older brother had a Model T that would run fine on kerosene once it was warmed up, so they’d start it on gasolins and after a few minutes switch over to kerosene…

    I also liked Pournelle’s idea for storage – cast the materials into concrete blocks, then built a sheet-metal shelter for them, say around Frenchman Flats (can’t complain about residual radiation there – used to be a nuclear-bomb test site!), surround the site with a triple fence at a safe distance, and every ten feet or so, put signs in multiple languages, reading “IF YOU CROSS THIS FENCE, YOU WILL DIE.” The security is self-enforcing…

    I like that one too, actually. I would still prefer vitrification to concrete, because solid blocks of ceramic are less likely to allow Bad Things to leach out into groundwater…

39. Joe the plumber isn’t a licensed plumber. He works for a 2-man plumbing company which consists of the owner and Joe. Joe doesn’t make $250,000 a year. He hopes to buy the plumbing business in the future and possibly someday make that much money.

    Right now?…he is a lackey.

40. I also liked Pournelle’s idea for storage – cast the materials into concrete blocks, then built a sheet-metal shelter for them, say around Frenchman Flats (can’t complain about residual radiation there – used to be a nuclear-bomb test site!), surround the site with a triple fence at a safe distance, and every ten feet or so, put signs in multiple languages, reading “IF YOU CROSS THIS FENCE, YOU WILL DIE.” The security is self-enforcing…

    I like that one too, actually. I would still prefer vitrification to concrete, because solid blocks of ceramic are less likely to allow Bad Things to leach out into groundwater…

    I recall a Discovery Channel video once that talked about the problem with the signs–what happens when, as has always happened, the language changes to the point where future people no longer understand what the signs mean? they were hiring poets and artists to try to some up with some Universal Sign of Extreme Badness. Not so easy. In some alternate civilization Mr Yuck could be the equivalent of “have nice day”.

41. I also liked Pournelle’s idea for storage – cast the materials into concrete blocks, then built a sheet-metal shelter for them, say around Frenchman Flats (can’t complain about residual radiation there – used to be a nuclear-bomb test site!), surround the site with a triple fence at a safe distance, and every ten feet or so, put signs in multiple languages, reading “IF YOU CROSS THIS FENCE, YOU WILL DIE.” The security is self-enforcing…

    I like that one too, actually. I would still prefer vitrification to concrete, because solid blocks of ceramic are less likely to allow Bad Things to leach out into groundwater…

    I recall a Discovery Channel video once that talked about the problem with the signs–what happens when, as has always happened, the language changes to the point where future people no longer understand what the signs mean? they were hiring poets and artists to try to some up with some Universal Sign of Extreme Badness. Not so easy. In some alternate civilization Mr Yuck could be the equivalent of “have nice day”.

42. Hey, if they can’t be bothered to update the signs once every century or so, I guess they’d have to learn the hard way….

    😉

43. Hey, if they can’t be bothered to update the signs once every century or so, I guess they’d have to learn the hard way….

    😉

44. This is my favorite article on real-world self-sufficient alternative fuels that could render us independent, AND be better for the environment. They’ve updated the article a few times, as the project progresses. It’s my understanding that they do have a plant up and running, one in Penns. and one in Italy, I believe. The large-scale start-up costs were double the projected, but it IS working as planned. Once they get all the kinks out, this is truly amazing. And solves so many pollution issues. I’m hoping they’ll do another update soon.

    http://discovermagazine.com/2003/may/featoil/?searchterm=alternative%20fuels

45. Susan, the process has not worked out nearly as well as they’d hoped.

    The plant in Penn was just a pilot plant, a small scale test. At this point (five years later) the plant in Italy hasn’t happened and their only plant is in Missouri. That plant isn’t even running at full production accourding to their homepage, and the oil they produce is selling for several times the original estimate, costing $80 a barrel by 2005. They’re only making money through government subsidies.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerisation

    I was estremely hopeful about that technology when it was announced a few years ago, but so far they haven’t been able to come close to their promises. I still hope they will someday.

46. Susan, the process has not worked out nearly as well as they’d hoped.

    The plant in Penn was just a pilot plant, a small scale test. At this point (five years later) the plant in Italy hasn’t happened and their only plant is in Missouri. That plant isn’t even running at full production accourding to their homepage, and the oil they produce is selling for several times the original estimate, costing $80 a barrel by 2005. They’re only making money through government subsidies.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerisation

    I was estremely hopeful about that technology when it was announced a few years ago, but so far they haven’t been able to come close to their promises. I still hope they will someday.

47. What a shame. Still, $80 a barrel is way less than $125, and it still eats up pollution. Here’s a place some of that campaign promise money could go.

48. What a shame. Still, $80 a barrel is way less than $125, and it still eats up pollution. Here’s a place some of that campaign promise money could go.

49. Uh, oil is currently selling for $70 a barrel.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12400801/

50. Uh, oil is currently selling for $70 a barrel.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12400801/