Thus far the blogging of the VP debate drew comments faster and more furiously than the Presidential debate. Let’s see what happens this time around. As always, I’m watching the broadcast on PBS. Comments below the cut line.
9:02: ” I have selected a long list of excellent questions that will not be answered…”
9:03: McCain in a red tie, Obama in a blue tie. Perfect.
9:03: Obama goes for the attack early.
9:05: I’m being reminded of the Underpants gnomes from “South Park.” “Step One, Bailout. Step two…(deafening silence). Step three: Profit!”
9:06: Huh? Energy independence? Uhm…okay.
9:07: I’m waiting for McCain to sit down on the step next to the guy. Maybe ask him to sit in his lap.
9:08: And McCain goes for a joke! It’s a missed bunt.
9:09: Here’s the problem: McCain is talking about wall Street cronyism, yet he has plenty of Wall Street lobbyists on his staff.
9:10: Obama continues on the attack. He’s trying to bait McCain into blowing his temper, get scolding, etc. It’s a gambit; if it doesn’t work, if McCain doesn’t respond to the attacks, Obama going to look as if he’s endlessly carping.
9:12: The questioner is looking for specifics. Let’s see if he gets them. And now McCain fires back at Obama, referring to “cronies.” Obama is going to have to spend time defending himself rather than getting specific.
9:14: Smart. Obama speaks to the question first rather than responding to McCain’s charges.
9:15: And yet politicians ARE pointing fingers.
9:18: How do we trust you? Good question.
9:19: This could wind up being a major question because Obama tends to be a history and facts wonk while McCain does better in connecting with people on an emotional level, and trust is an emotional question.
9:20: This would have been the question for Obama to talk about hardscrabble roots or some such, the notion that “I’ve known hard times, I’m on your side.”
9:21: No, he has NOT been a consistent reformer. He has been consistently self serving. Read the Rolling Stones article.
9:22: They’re both blowing this opportunity. This is the kind of question that Bill Clinton would have knocked out of the park. Say what you will about Clinton, but he has tremendous personal charisma and you would have seen it on display for this question.
9:24: he could work on all three at once? NOW he can multi task? He couldn’t even campaign and work on the economy at the same time.
9:25: Every time he says, “My friends” I keep flashing back to “The Music Man” doing “Trouble.”
9:26: Yeah, but JFK had to die to give us the impetus to get to the moon.
9:27: Brokaw is trying his best to rein them in for time.
9:29: That air force tanker was actually a pork barrel project that he managed to push past through Carter’s objections. And there was a lawsuit involved as well because of European involvement that made its construction unfair competition for Americans.
9:30: OBAMA mentioned 9/11 first? Cripes.
9:31: Still, the comment about going out and shopping “not being the kind of call to service we were looking for” is kind of funny.
9:32: Clean coal technology is a myth. Unless there’s a new scientific breakthrough, it’s never going to happen.
9:33 If Bush says Wall Street got drunk, I’d take his word for it. With his history, he’d know.
9:34 I wonder if either of them will talk about putting Wall street on a 12 step program.
9:35: Obama should say, “I know Senator Obama worked with Herbert Hoover and knew Herbert Hoover, but I assure you I’m no Herbert Hoover.”
9:37: I keep waiting for them to follow the “West Wing” format and basically say, “Screw the rules, we’re just going to talk back and forth.”
9:38: Social security is the third rail of politics. If they talk about reforming it, they’re in trouble. “The straight talk express lost a wheel.” Nice. I’m sure he was waiting for the opportunity to use it.
9:40: Obama is steering the question away from what Brokaw said.
9:41: I’LL answer the question. Oh, snap.
9:41: Oh God, another frakking commission.
9:42: Look at the record? Keating 5.
9:43: McCain tries to distance himself from the Bush administration. Smart. Let’s see if Obama tries to tie him right back to it. Meantime he follows the West Wing scenario, advocating nuclear fuel just as Vinick did. Again, let’s hope a nuclear meltdown doesn’t happen to keep the scenario going.
9:45: Is EVERYTHING one of the biggest challenges of our time?
9:46: YES! Obama finally hits the nail in talking about the fact that McCain has been there for so long and hasn’t accomplished any of the things he talks about.
9:47: God, I just wish that Brokaw would just say, “Look, do you guys just want to toss the rules? Because if you do, let’s take the gloves off and go and I will go ‘Meet the Press’ on both of you.”
9:51: No. the health care in the congress is one of the most generous policies ever. They have all the stuff that we have slowly lost over the years due to the insurance companies.
9:52: Notice that Obama is no longer (a) stuttering at the start of questions and (b) saying “Senator McCain is absolutely right” about anything.
9:53: Why does no one point out that $5000 won’t get you health insurance?
9:54: cross-state insurance won’t work. NY people can’t go flocking to Ohio for health insurance, because in many states the state governments supplement the medical programs (the HIP program, for instance, is supplemented by state taxpayer money.) If the state governments see people flooding in from other states whose taxes aren’t going into the pot, how likely are they to continue supplementing the programs?
9:56: Oooo. Obama finally brings the personal aspect in.
9:57: Hah! He brought up McCain voting against children’s healthcare. I was wondering if he would.
9:58: Obama just stepped in something and he knows it. Biden’s from Delaware.
9:59: Obama can use this question as a major opportunity to link McCain to Bush when it comes to damaging our ability to act as peacemakers.
10:01: Obama was wrong about the surge. And McCain was wrong about every aspect of the war.
10:02: Not really answering the question, but he’s jabbing back at McCain at least.
10:03: 79 comments on this thread thus far. As of this time during the VP debate we had over 200.
10:05: I agree with McCain: It requires a cool hand at the tiller. Unfortunately his is anything BUT a cool hand. That’s the problem.
10:07: “Your young men and women are my first priority right after our nation’s security.” Which would make them your…second priority.
10:09: Except the problem is that more troops in Afghanistan will likely not lead to much except more deaths of civilians which is going to pìšš øff the people there and further inflame hostility toward us.
10:11: Actually it’s “speak softly and carry a big stick,” which is a West African saying that Roosevelt quoted.
10:13: YES! YES! And notice he said “speaking softly, ” the correct quote.
10:15; And we’re back to McCain’s secret plan to get bin Laden. He keep saying that. He has a secret plan. Has he shared this plan with anyone?
10:16: Brokaw is going to give Saturday night Live a field day.
10:18: Oh my God, McCain said that Obama was correct about something. Is that a first?
10:19: McCain’s right, I doubt we’ll have another cold war with Russia.
10:20: We’ve been SHOWING moral support for Georgia. It didn’t mean jack.
10:21: Yes. Obama jumps on the moral support opening. The question is, where do we get the money to provide financial support. And Obama already said the first thing he would cut would be money designed for foreign support.
10:22: As opposed to anticipating something AFTER it happens?
10;23: Gee, I would have thought McCain says Yes.
10:25: Ooooooo. the Jewish vote is listening carefully.
10:26: Aw, c’mon, are we back to the preconditions thing?
10:27: So Obama is basically saying that we want to take steps to make sure Israel isn’t attacked by Iran. Which is fine. But WHAT IF IT IS? That’s the question. If the steps fail, what then?
10:29: He never answered the question.
10:30: Obama deflects the zen question with humor and switches to his stump speech.
10:31: I could see McCain saying, “I don’t know how we will survive if Obama is elected, and I intend to never have to learn it.”
10:34: Except the great honor of his life was to put himself first. Again, read the RS articles.
CONCLUSION: I think both of them got good shots in. To my mind, Obama gave the better performance, albeit narrowly, but I’ve no idea if anyone who is undecided would have been swayed one way or the other.
• 
This is what I get for not paying attention. I thought the comment I responded to above was from you, Jason. Otherwise, would not have bothered.
Actually from Jason this time–
JFK also wasn’t as good at debates as he was at speeches. People who listened to the Nixon debate on the radio said Nixon won. It was the visuals of JFK vs. Nixon that put Kennedy over the top, which is pretty much true for these recent debates, also.
true, but at least that debate was interesting. This last one was deadly dull. The first one wasn’t all that memorable either. Plot them on a graph and my projections indicate that the next one may actually cause brain embolisms.
The one thing I would not have predicted from an Obama/McCain matchup was that it would put me to sleep.
Today Gallup has Obama ahead by 10 nationally 51/41:
gallup.com/poll/election2008.aspx
I got $50 that says he breaks a 10 on Gallup in the last week of the election — or wins the election by more than 10 — which means gaining ground in the swing states. Loser donates to the CBLDF. I think Obama will only benefit as the campaign goes on. He could peak at 20 the Tuesday-report before, and if he sinks back to 10 and never breaks it, I lose. Find a rich patron; I don’t care.
Today Gallup has Obama ahead by 10 nationally 51/41:
gallup.com/poll/election2008.aspx
I got $50 that says he breaks a 10 on Gallup in the last week of the election — or wins the election by more than 10 — which means gaining ground in the swing states. Loser donates to the CBLDF. I think Obama will only benefit as the campaign goes on. He could peak at 20 the Tuesday-report before, and if he sinks back to 10 and never breaks it, I lose. Find a rich patron; I don’t care.
I’m sure you’ve seen it, but I’ve had the TV off and this is just hitting my inbox now.
“Sarah Palin, the US Republican vice presidential candidate, is found guilty of abuse of power after ethics probe by Alaska legislature.”
I’m sure you’ve seen it, but I’ve had the TV off and this is just hitting my inbox now.
“Sarah Palin, the US Republican vice presidential candidate, is found guilty of abuse of power after ethics probe by Alaska legislature.”
McCain ened up actually getting his pride back and corrected one of his Rally’s crowd when they started booing and heckling Obama, and got Booed himself!
And this just in, Sarah “wilma flintstone” Palin is indeed guilty of abusing her authority.
McCain ened up actually getting his pride back and corrected one of his Rally’s crowd when they started booing and heckling Obama, and got Booed himself!
And this just in, Sarah “wilma flintstone” Palin is indeed guilty of abusing her authority.
Specifically, Jerry, while the probe found she abused her power it also found that no laws were broken. Look for both sides to claim victory on that one.
And I just saw some of the footage Nivek alludes to. Well done, Senator McCain — we’ve started to dial back on the really scary part of all this.
Specifically, Jerry, while the probe found she abused her power it also found that no laws were broken. Look for both sides to claim victory on that one.
And I just saw some of the footage Nivek alludes to. Well done, Senator McCain — we’ve started to dial back on the really scary part of all this.
I haven’t seen the ads for McCain or for Obama. Other than last weekend at a motel, I haven’t watched television since May or so. 2 hours of Mythbusters got me pretty stoked, though, especially watching Carrie blow up šhìŧ.
Hmmm. While both sides may claim victory based on the troopergate report, the important thing is how independents/undecideds will feel about it. The last week or so McCain has been attacking Obama’s character. This report certainly raises more questions about the GOP ticket which is not such a good think when you are behind in the polls.
Hmmm. While both sides may claim victory based on the troopergate report, the important thing is how independents/undecideds will feel about it. The last week or so McCain has been attacking Obama’s character. This report certainly raises more questions about the GOP ticket which is not such a good think when you are behind in the polls.
Tim Lynch: “Look for both sides to claim victory on that one.”
All other things being equal, this would be a non-event. But all other things are not equal. This is taking McCain and Palin off-message at a time when they cannot afford it. Given that they’ve been struggling to even find a message, even the littlest setbacks become damaging like a pebble propelled by hurricane-force winds.
I think at this point it’s not a question of whether Obama wins but by how much. God help him. I’m going to vote for the man but even I fear that he’s unprepared for what awaits. Obama is better than McCain but that’s setting the bar low. We need something better then the best of two mediocre candidates — we need a giant of a leader. I pray Obama can grow into the role, and swiftly.
Now that I think of it, I also hope that all of us can rise to the challenge. Since the death of my maternal grandfather I’ve wondered if I, who grew up comfortably middle class without ever knowing true hardship, could rise to challenges of the magnitude that my grandfather met and overcame during the Great Depression and World War II. As the economic crisis continues to deepen, the possibility that I could similarly be tested seems increasingly less remote.
The report did say that the law was broken.
It said that firing Monegan did not break the law, but the pressure that was put on Monegan before the firing was a violation of Alaska ethics laws.
The McCain Campaign has already declared victory. They’ve said that they were vindicated by the part that said the firing was legal, but that the rest of it was desperate reaching to find fault.
The report did say that the law was broken.
It said that firing Monegan did not break the law, but the pressure that was put on Monegan before the firing was a violation of Alaska ethics laws.
The McCain Campaign has already declared victory. They’ve said that they were vindicated by the part that said the firing was legal, but that the rest of it was desperate reaching to find fault.
That….was a mistake. (Well, that and the clown suits). For an internal matter that was brought up before Palin’s nomination and where the vote was 12-0 on a committee that was a majority Republican….I think they just pìššëd øff the Alaskan folks mightily. If McCain doesn’t win, there’s a chance at an impeachment call…
That….was a mistake. (Well, that and the clown suits). For an internal matter that was brought up before Palin’s nomination and where the vote was 12-0 on a committee that was a majority Republican….I think they just pìššëd øff the Alaskan folks mightily. If McCain doesn’t win, there’s a chance at an impeachment call…
Was the vote really 12-0 against her? I’ve read that they voted 12-0 to make the report public (except for a few bits), but I haven’t been able to find anything that gave the actual vote on the findings.
Was the vote really 12-0 against her? I’ve read that they voted 12-0 to make the report public (except for a few bits), but I haven’t been able to find anything that gave the actual vote on the findings.
Tim Lynch said: “Well done, Senator McCain — we’ve started to dial back on the really scary part of all this.”
I heard the clip on the radio this evening. McCain corrected some ignorant woman who said she wouldn’t (or couldn’t?) vote for Obama because he was “Arab.” Apparently, this woman has no knowledge of geography (his father was from Kenya; his mother from Kansas, neither of which is in the area of the world once called Arabia); and apparently she thinks “Arab” refers to a religious background, rather than a cultural one. That religion being Islam. Not all Arabs are Muslim, just as not all Muslims are Arab.
And Obama is neither. Not that facts would likely matter to that woman. She strikes me as the kind that believes her religion– or more properly her religious sect– is the only true one. In short, if she were Protestant and Obama Catholic (or vice versa), then he wouldn’t be a “true” Christian. This would probably be true of any potential candidate who didn’t fit her world view, not just Obama.
By the way, I’ve actually encountered people who’ve used the phrase “Christians and Catholics.” What? Do these idiots think Catholics worship the Vorlon God Booji?
It’s good that McCain– in essence– stood up for Obama to this woman, but it’s a bit pathetic that people believe the various lies and half truths floating around out there. Wouldn’t surprise me if someone who got suckered into believing a lie about McCain back in 2000 and then vowed not to be so quick to believe something without making sure subsequently fell for a lie about Obama (or any of the other candidates this election season).
What do you think the odds are that this woman didn’t bother to do the slightest bit of research concerning Obama’s background, and just took what she heard or read at face value?
I really hope the election isn’t decided by people like this woman McCain encountered– people who vote (or don’t vote) based on ignorance, misinformation or out-and-out lies. Hopefully enough people will go to the polls who are concerned about important issues, like the state of the economy, and how to fix it. I hope people vote for the candidate they believe can move the country forward, not against the candidate they consider the bogeyman.
I’ve lost a lot of respect for John McCain over the years, but he’s earned a modicum of respect for his words tonight.
‘Course, I’d have respected him a lot more if he’d reined in Palin or kept her from making ludicrous comparisons between Obama and Ayers, who’d committed his crimes when Obama was a child, living thousands of miles away.
As to the debates, I’ve watched all of them, just to hear what the candidates had to say. I’ve already made up my mind who I’m voting for (Bill and Opus! O.K., not really. Gracie Allen! No, not really, either), but I wanted to see what the candidates discussed and how they comported themselves in the debates. ‘Course Supernatural took precedence over the vice presidential debate.
Rick
Tim Lynch said: “Well done, Senator McCain — we’ve started to dial back on the really scary part of all this.”
I heard the clip on the radio this evening. McCain corrected some ignorant woman who said she wouldn’t (or couldn’t?) vote for Obama because he was “Arab.” Apparently, this woman has no knowledge of geography (his father was from Kenya; his mother from Kansas, neither of which is in the area of the world once called Arabia); and apparently she thinks “Arab” refers to a religious background, rather than a cultural one. That religion being Islam. Not all Arabs are Muslim, just as not all Muslims are Arab.
And Obama is neither. Not that facts would likely matter to that woman. She strikes me as the kind that believes her religion– or more properly her religious sect– is the only true one. In short, if she were Protestant and Obama Catholic (or vice versa), then he wouldn’t be a “true” Christian. This would probably be true of any potential candidate who didn’t fit her world view, not just Obama.
By the way, I’ve actually encountered people who’ve used the phrase “Christians and Catholics.” What? Do these idiots think Catholics worship the Vorlon God Booji?
It’s good that McCain– in essence– stood up for Obama to this woman, but it’s a bit pathetic that people believe the various lies and half truths floating around out there. Wouldn’t surprise me if someone who got suckered into believing a lie about McCain back in 2000 and then vowed not to be so quick to believe something without making sure subsequently fell for a lie about Obama (or any of the other candidates this election season).
What do you think the odds are that this woman didn’t bother to do the slightest bit of research concerning Obama’s background, and just took what she heard or read at face value?
I really hope the election isn’t decided by people like this woman McCain encountered– people who vote (or don’t vote) based on ignorance, misinformation or out-and-out lies. Hopefully enough people will go to the polls who are concerned about important issues, like the state of the economy, and how to fix it. I hope people vote for the candidate they believe can move the country forward, not against the candidate they consider the bogeyman.
I’ve lost a lot of respect for John McCain over the years, but he’s earned a modicum of respect for his words tonight.
‘Course, I’d have respected him a lot more if he’d reined in Palin or kept her from making ludicrous comparisons between Obama and Ayers, who’d committed his crimes when Obama was a child, living thousands of miles away.
As to the debates, I’ve watched all of them, just to hear what the candidates had to say. I’ve already made up my mind who I’m voting for (Bill and Opus! O.K., not really. Gracie Allen! No, not really, either), but I wanted to see what the candidates discussed and how they comported themselves in the debates. ‘Course Supernatural took precedence over the vice presidential debate.
Rick
Interesting. The report was released in the Friday evening “dump” news cycle. Also, while the vote was 12-0 in favor of releasing the report, the conclusions weren’t unanimous according to ABC.
Besides, the report didn’t say anything that someone with a little common sense couldn’t have figured out on their own:
1) She acted within her authority to fire the commissioner.
2) While not the sole factor in her decision, the fact that her ex-brother-in-law was not fired was likely a contributing factor in her decision.
Duh.
We’ll never know more than this. Only Palin can tell you her thought processes, and she’s not going to say anything more about it. Plus, anything less than a mea culpa would not satisfy the left, anyway.
Rick: “I heard the clip on the radio this evening. McCain corrected some ignorant woman who said she wouldn’t (or couldn’t?) vote for Obama because he was “Arab.” Apparently, this woman has no knowledge of geography (his father was from Kenya; his mother from Kansas, neither of which is in the area of the world once called Arabia); and apparently she thinks “Arab” refers to a religious background, rather than a cultural one. That religion being Islam. Not all Arabs are Muslim, just as not all Muslims are Arab.”
Sorry to nitpick, but Arabs don’t come from Arabia. Arabs live in north Africa and the middle east as a whole. But of course you’re right about the important part. Not al Arabs are Muslims, and not all Muslims are Arabs, and Obama is neither.
The Republicans seem to really be scaring themselves about Obama in the last few days, turning him into this boogyman in their minds.
Rick: “I heard the clip on the radio this evening. McCain corrected some ignorant woman who said she wouldn’t (or couldn’t?) vote for Obama because he was “Arab.” Apparently, this woman has no knowledge of geography (his father was from Kenya; his mother from Kansas, neither of which is in the area of the world once called Arabia); and apparently she thinks “Arab” refers to a religious background, rather than a cultural one. That religion being Islam. Not all Arabs are Muslim, just as not all Muslims are Arab.”
Sorry to nitpick, but Arabs don’t come from Arabia. Arabs live in north Africa and the middle east as a whole. But of course you’re right about the important part. Not al Arabs are Muslims, and not all Muslims are Arabs, and Obama is neither.
The Republicans seem to really be scaring themselves about Obama in the last few days, turning him into this boogyman in their minds.
By the way, I’ve actually encountered people who’ve used the phrase “Christians and Catholics.”
They’re the sort of folks who hand out Jack Chick comics on Halloween and then wonder why they have to spend the next day cleaning the eggs and shaving cream off their house.
By the way, I’ve actually encountered people who’ve used the phrase “Christians and Catholics.”
They’re the sort of folks who hand out Jack Chick comics on Halloween and then wonder why they have to spend the next day cleaning the eggs and shaving cream off their house.
That….was a mistake. (Well, that and the clown suits). For an internal matter that was brought up before Palin’s nomination and where the vote was 12-0 on a committee that was a majority Republican….I think they just pìššëd øff the Alaskan folks mightily. If McCain doesn’t win, there’s a chance at an impeachment call…
That….was a mistake. (Well, that and the clown suits). For an internal matter that was brought up before Palin’s nomination and where the vote was 12-0 on a committee that was a majority Republican….I think they just pìššëd øff the Alaskan folks mightily. If McCain doesn’t win, there’s a chance at an impeachment call…
Rick Keating: “By the way, I’ve actually encountered people who’ve used the phrase “Christians and Catholics.” What? Do these idiots think Catholics worship the Vorlon God Booji?”
No, it means that they grew up in an area where the division between Catholics and the rest of the faith was less about a few disagreements and more about absolute hatred. I grew up in an area in Virginia where there were (and still are actually) a number of “Christian” churches where they preach the “fact” that the Catholics all but destroyed Christianity. Hëll, I left organized religion behind a long time ago and I still catch myself making that distinction from time to time.
My wife Jenn was raised Catholic and, as her family moved from place to place, she was exposed to Catholic churches where marrying outside of the faith was frowned on almost to the levels that you’d find amongst many in the Orthodox Jewish community. Fortunately for me she and her parents didn’t have that issue themselves.
I can’t recall what part of the country you’ve mentioned growing up in Rick, but I can tell you that, in the South at least, there are quite a few churches on both sides of the argument that hold that view. You’re just running into a lot of people that, even if they don’t hold this prejudice themselves, grew up in areas around it and had the idea drilled into them just by sheer repitition.
Bill Mulligan : “They’re the sort of folks who hand out Jack Chick comics on Halloween and then wonder why they have to spend the next day cleaning the eggs and shaving cream off their house.”
Eggs and shaving cream?!? Jeez, dude, you let ’em off really easy in your neck of the woods. People didn’t like the results of that kind of “treat” where I grew up. We were in an area where a short walk through the woods from where the “rural” neighborhoods were would put you in a farm field with all of the… ammunition… that one might expect to find where farm animals were.
Rick Keating: “By the way, I’ve actually encountered people who’ve used the phrase “Christians and Catholics.” What? Do these idiots think Catholics worship the Vorlon God Booji?”
No, it means that they grew up in an area where the division between Catholics and the rest of the faith was less about a few disagreements and more about absolute hatred. I grew up in an area in Virginia where there were (and still are actually) a number of “Christian” churches where they preach the “fact” that the Catholics all but destroyed Christianity. Hëll, I left organized religion behind a long time ago and I still catch myself making that distinction from time to time.
My wife Jenn was raised Catholic and, as her family moved from place to place, she was exposed to Catholic churches where marrying outside of the faith was frowned on almost to the levels that you’d find amongst many in the Orthodox Jewish community. Fortunately for me she and her parents didn’t have that issue themselves.
I can’t recall what part of the country you’ve mentioned growing up in Rick, but I can tell you that, in the South at least, there are quite a few churches on both sides of the argument that hold that view. You’re just running into a lot of people that, even if they don’t hold this prejudice themselves, grew up in areas around it and had the idea drilled into them just by sheer repitition.
Bill Mulligan : “They’re the sort of folks who hand out Jack Chick comics on Halloween and then wonder why they have to spend the next day cleaning the eggs and shaving cream off their house.”
Eggs and shaving cream?!? Jeez, dude, you let ’em off really easy in your neck of the woods. People didn’t like the results of that kind of “treat” where I grew up. We were in an area where a short walk through the woods from where the “rural” neighborhoods were would put you in a farm field with all of the… ammunition… that one might expect to find where farm animals were.
People have commented on the disturbing similarities between these last McCain rallies and KKK ralies. It’s scary, but honestly, I don’t think it’s a racial matter.
It may have some components of racial prejudice, but I think the crux of the question is that the radical social conservatives that have been energized by the GOP these last few years would accept a black candidate, as long as he held the same rural, Christian values they do.
It’s a matter of culture, not race.
It’s both, Rene. At a Friday rally a woman told John McCain that she thought Obama was an Arab. He took the microphone back from her and said that Obama wasn’t.
This whole campaign of “Who is the real Obama?” is the kind of thing that has been used against Black politicians for decades. The implication is that they’re unknown, that they’re not one of us.
The culture stuff is definitely there too. But these days a lot of the people still willing to go to McCain rallies are crazies, and they are crazy in more ways than just culture fear.
It’s both, Rene. At a Friday rally a woman told John McCain that she thought Obama was an Arab. He took the microphone back from her and said that Obama wasn’t.
This whole campaign of “Who is the real Obama?” is the kind of thing that has been used against Black politicians for decades. The implication is that they’re unknown, that they’re not one of us.
The culture stuff is definitely there too. But these days a lot of the people still willing to go to McCain rallies are crazies, and they are crazy in more ways than just culture fear.
One more thing about Palin’s investigation.
The Anchorage Daily News (adn.com) has a video interviewing several of the legislators who voted to release the report. Palin and the McCain Campaign are claiming these people are partisan witch hunters, but the video shows that they are as far from that as possible. They make it clear that the *report* says she broke the law, but that isn’t universally agreed upon by the panel at all. In fact, even some of the ones who think there was a violation are not eager to call it significant.
I think this was never significant. She went too far in trying to defend her sister, something that the vast majority of America would have let go easily. If she had admitted it and moved on, this would not have gotten so much attention and it wouldn’t be a big deal. Instead they’ve created this huge attempt at a cover up that has generated 10 times as much negative news as the investigation itself.
One more thing about Palin’s investigation.
The Anchorage Daily News (adn.com) has a video interviewing several of the legislators who voted to release the report. Palin and the McCain Campaign are claiming these people are partisan witch hunters, but the video shows that they are as far from that as possible. They make it clear that the *report* says she broke the law, but that isn’t universally agreed upon by the panel at all. In fact, even some of the ones who think there was a violation are not eager to call it significant.
I think this was never significant. She went too far in trying to defend her sister, something that the vast majority of America would have let go easily. If she had admitted it and moved on, this would not have gotten so much attention and it wouldn’t be a big deal. Instead they’ve created this huge attempt at a cover up that has generated 10 times as much negative news as the investigation itself.
Jerry,
I grew up in metro Detroit, with a few years in Chicago. I’m well aware of the Protestants Vs. Catholic divide, especially where it concerns the Irish. But both sides know the other’s beliefs involve the worship of Jesus. Those who say “Christians and Catholics” imply that Catholics don’t worship Jesus, that they have no connection with Christianity.
The people I’ve encountered who’ve used this phrase are members of various churches who come to the paper wanting to put an announcement in about some church event or other. It may be that some of these individuals and/or their churches have Southern roots.
Micha,
My understanding is that what used to be called Arabia is what we know call the Middle East (or at least the Middle East contains a large part of it).
Rick
Jerry,
I grew up in metro Detroit, with a few years in Chicago. I’m well aware of the Protestants Vs. Catholic divide, especially where it concerns the Irish. But both sides know the other’s beliefs involve the worship of Jesus. Those who say “Christians and Catholics” imply that Catholics don’t worship Jesus, that they have no connection with Christianity.
The people I’ve encountered who’ve used this phrase are members of various churches who come to the paper wanting to put an announcement in about some church event or other. It may be that some of these individuals and/or their churches have Southern roots.
Micha,
My understanding is that what used to be called Arabia is what we know call the Middle East (or at least the Middle East contains a large part of it).
Rick
“My understanding is that what used to be called Arabia is what we know call the Middle East (or at least the Middle East contains a large part of it).”
No. Arabia is just the peninsula between the red sea and the Persian gulf. Most of that area is Saudi-arabia, the rest is Yemen and a bunch of emirates. The rest of the middle east is not Arabia. The Arab world spreads from Mauritania to Iraq and the Sudan to the south.
It’s amazing that the divisions of the reformation are stil kept alive. I thought the organizations of Christian sects put away their differences to oppose secularism.
“marrying outside of the faith was frowned on almost to the levels that you’d find amongst many in the Orthodox Jewish community”
Orthodox Judaism opposes interfaith marriage without exception. After all, many aspects of the Jewish religion exist in order to ensure that Jews keep their seperate identity rather than assimilate and vannish. But today the majority of Jews are not that religious or at least not orthodox, so they accept interfaith marriage, although it seems there are some non-orthodox Jews that are concerned at the effect of interfaith marriages on the continuation of the Jewish people as a group. But it seems to me they have no choice but to accept the phenomenon too even if they complain about it.
“My understanding is that what used to be called Arabia is what we know call the Middle East (or at least the Middle East contains a large part of it).”
No. Arabia is just the peninsula between the red sea and the Persian gulf. Most of that area is Saudi-arabia, the rest is Yemen and a bunch of emirates. The rest of the middle east is not Arabia. The Arab world spreads from Mauritania to Iraq and the Sudan to the south.
It’s amazing that the divisions of the reformation are stil kept alive. I thought the organizations of Christian sects put away their differences to oppose secularism.
“marrying outside of the faith was frowned on almost to the levels that you’d find amongst many in the Orthodox Jewish community”
Orthodox Judaism opposes interfaith marriage without exception. After all, many aspects of the Jewish religion exist in order to ensure that Jews keep their seperate identity rather than assimilate and vannish. But today the majority of Jews are not that religious or at least not orthodox, so they accept interfaith marriage, although it seems there are some non-orthodox Jews that are concerned at the effect of interfaith marriages on the continuation of the Jewish people as a group. But it seems to me they have no choice but to accept the phenomenon too even if they complain about it.
Rick Keating: “Those who say “Christians and Catholics” imply that Catholics don’t worship Jesus, that they have no connection with Christianity.”
And, to some degree, that’s what they believe. There are people in this country to this very day who will tell you point blank that Catholics are not true Christians and are thus not Christian. They’ll tell you that in the same way that some here have state that Pat Robertson or whatever fill-in-the-blank conservative right “religious leader” you’d care to name wasn’t a real Christian.
Rick, the biggest problem that you’re gonna have with this is that you’re trying to look at this with something like a rational eye. Don’t, because you can’t. It’s not rational and it’s as nutty as a Planter’s factory, but it’s there nonetheless.
Micha: “But it seems to me they have no choice but to accept the phenomenon too even if they complain about it. “
What?!? You want people to accept deep and permanent changes to their culture? Why do you hate your country, Micha?
~8?)`
Rick Keating: “Those who say “Christians and Catholics” imply that Catholics don’t worship Jesus, that they have no connection with Christianity.”
And, to some degree, that’s what they believe. There are people in this country to this very day who will tell you point blank that Catholics are not true Christians and are thus not Christian. They’ll tell you that in the same way that some here have state that Pat Robertson or whatever fill-in-the-blank conservative right “religious leader” you’d care to name wasn’t a real Christian.
Rick, the biggest problem that you’re gonna have with this is that you’re trying to look at this with something like a rational eye. Don’t, because you can’t. It’s not rational and it’s as nutty as a Planter’s factory, but it’s there nonetheless.
Micha: “But it seems to me they have no choice but to accept the phenomenon too even if they complain about it. “
What?!? You want people to accept deep and permanent changes to their culture? Why do you hate your country, Micha?
~8?)`
I dunno if it’s an insignificant violation or not; I just am picking on the number of times that Palin and her husband were told to back off, it’s not legal to pressure that way, or that their pressure would become public and embarassing, and they kept on doing it. Or as some blog put it:
It’s also striking that the Palins seemed to feel absolutely no obligation to follow the orders of Superior Court Judge John Suddock, who presided over the divorce of Palin’s sister Molly from Wooten. Suddock repeatedly warned that their behavior was crossing the line, and that their attempts to get Wooten fired would backfire, since it would make him less able to provide financial support for the kids. Apparently, when the final decree was issued in January 2006, Suddock threatened that if their harassment continued, Molly’s child custody rights might be curtailed. Yet the Palins seemed to have totally ignored his orders.
VP material?
I dunno if it’s an insignificant violation or not; I just am picking on the number of times that Palin and her husband were told to back off, it’s not legal to pressure that way, or that their pressure would become public and embarassing, and they kept on doing it. Or as some blog put it:
It’s also striking that the Palins seemed to feel absolutely no obligation to follow the orders of Superior Court Judge John Suddock, who presided over the divorce of Palin’s sister Molly from Wooten. Suddock repeatedly warned that their behavior was crossing the line, and that their attempts to get Wooten fired would backfire, since it would make him less able to provide financial support for the kids. Apparently, when the final decree was issued in January 2006, Suddock threatened that if their harassment continued, Molly’s child custody rights might be curtailed. Yet the Palins seemed to have totally ignored his orders.
VP material?
Micha: “But it seems to me they have no choice but to accept the phenomenon too even if they complain about it. “
Jerry: What?!? You want people to accept deep and permanent changes to their culture? Why do you hate your country, Micha?
Micha: Seriously for a moment. I have to admit that from an intellectual point of view I am concerned that intermarriage of Jews will result in the shrinking of the Jewish people (and not in the good Atom kind of way). But if I was living in the US, like many of my relatives do, I wouldn’t expect myself or members of my family to isolate themslves from the other 99% of the population. Despite the above concern I prefer that my american relatives be happy with their non-Jewish spouses, which they seem to be. And in any case, it seems that some of intermarried Jews were not really that Jewish to begin with while others keep a connection to Judaism despite intermarriage, so complaining is not only pointless, it is silly and rude.
—————-
Does the fact that McCain spoke out against some of the hatred against Obama being voiced in some of his rallies make him seem better in your eyes?
————————
Jerry, Bill, apparently my cable provider is going to show a bunch of zombie movies next week in concert with Israel’s only and tiny comic convention. Zombies are hitting Israel.
Micha: “But it seems to me they have no choice but to accept the phenomenon too even if they complain about it. “
Jerry: What?!? You want people to accept deep and permanent changes to their culture? Why do you hate your country, Micha?
Micha: Seriously for a moment. I have to admit that from an intellectual point of view I am concerned that intermarriage of Jews will result in the shrinking of the Jewish people (and not in the good Atom kind of way). But if I was living in the US, like many of my relatives do, I wouldn’t expect myself or members of my family to isolate themslves from the other 99% of the population. Despite the above concern I prefer that my american relatives be happy with their non-Jewish spouses, which they seem to be. And in any case, it seems that some of intermarried Jews were not really that Jewish to begin with while others keep a connection to Judaism despite intermarriage, so complaining is not only pointless, it is silly and rude.
—————-
Does the fact that McCain spoke out against some of the hatred against Obama being voiced in some of his rallies make him seem better in your eyes?
————————
Jerry, Bill, apparently my cable provider is going to show a bunch of zombie movies next week in concert with Israel’s only and tiny comic convention. Zombies are hitting Israel.
Micha: Does the fact that McCain spoke out against some of the hatred against Obama being voiced in some of his rallies make him seem better in your eyes?
When I saw that, my reaction was, “Finally!”
It doesn’t make up for all the bad stuff, but it was good. Plus, it might mean something. Today, both McCain and Palin have given speeches without the Ayers questions and without the “Who is the real Barack Obama?” nonsense. It’s not perfect, but they do seem to have reined things in a little bit.
Micha: Does the fact that McCain spoke out against some of the hatred against Obama being voiced in some of his rallies make him seem better in your eyes?
When I saw that, my reaction was, “Finally!”
It doesn’t make up for all the bad stuff, but it was good. Plus, it might mean something. Today, both McCain and Palin have given speeches without the Ayers questions and without the “Who is the real Barack Obama?” nonsense. It’s not perfect, but they do seem to have reined things in a little bit.
Micha: “…will result in the shrinking of the Jewish people (and not in the good Atom kind of way).”
I smell a new Rick Moranis movie. “Honey, I Shrunk the Jews” — coming to a theater near you.
will result in the shrinking of the Jewish people
I was IN THE POOL!
Sorry about that.
will result in the shrinking of the Jewish people
I was IN THE POOL!
Sorry about that.