Thus far the blogging of the VP debate drew comments faster and more furiously than the Presidential debate. Let’s see what happens this time around. As always, I’m watching the broadcast on PBS. Comments below the cut line.
9:02: ” I have selected a long list of excellent questions that will not be answered…”
9:03: McCain in a red tie, Obama in a blue tie. Perfect.
9:03: Obama goes for the attack early.
9:05: I’m being reminded of the Underpants gnomes from “South Park.” “Step One, Bailout. Step two…(deafening silence). Step three: Profit!”
9:06: Huh? Energy independence? Uhm…okay.
9:07: I’m waiting for McCain to sit down on the step next to the guy. Maybe ask him to sit in his lap.
9:08: And McCain goes for a joke! It’s a missed bunt.
9:09: Here’s the problem: McCain is talking about wall Street cronyism, yet he has plenty of Wall Street lobbyists on his staff.
9:10: Obama continues on the attack. He’s trying to bait McCain into blowing his temper, get scolding, etc. It’s a gambit; if it doesn’t work, if McCain doesn’t respond to the attacks, Obama going to look as if he’s endlessly carping.
9:12: The questioner is looking for specifics. Let’s see if he gets them. And now McCain fires back at Obama, referring to “cronies.” Obama is going to have to spend time defending himself rather than getting specific.
9:14: Smart. Obama speaks to the question first rather than responding to McCain’s charges.
9:15: And yet politicians ARE pointing fingers.
9:18: How do we trust you? Good question.
9:19: This could wind up being a major question because Obama tends to be a history and facts wonk while McCain does better in connecting with people on an emotional level, and trust is an emotional question.
9:20: This would have been the question for Obama to talk about hardscrabble roots or some such, the notion that “I’ve known hard times, I’m on your side.”
9:21: No, he has NOT been a consistent reformer. He has been consistently self serving. Read the Rolling Stones article.
9:22: They’re both blowing this opportunity. This is the kind of question that Bill Clinton would have knocked out of the park. Say what you will about Clinton, but he has tremendous personal charisma and you would have seen it on display for this question.
9:24: he could work on all three at once? NOW he can multi task? He couldn’t even campaign and work on the economy at the same time.
9:25: Every time he says, “My friends” I keep flashing back to “The Music Man” doing “Trouble.”
9:26: Yeah, but JFK had to die to give us the impetus to get to the moon.
9:27: Brokaw is trying his best to rein them in for time.
9:29: That air force tanker was actually a pork barrel project that he managed to push past through Carter’s objections. And there was a lawsuit involved as well because of European involvement that made its construction unfair competition for Americans.
9:30: OBAMA mentioned 9/11 first? Cripes.
9:31: Still, the comment about going out and shopping “not being the kind of call to service we were looking for” is kind of funny.
9:32: Clean coal technology is a myth. Unless there’s a new scientific breakthrough, it’s never going to happen.
9:33 If Bush says Wall Street got drunk, I’d take his word for it. With his history, he’d know.
9:34 I wonder if either of them will talk about putting Wall street on a 12 step program.
9:35: Obama should say, “I know Senator Obama worked with Herbert Hoover and knew Herbert Hoover, but I assure you I’m no Herbert Hoover.”
9:37: I keep waiting for them to follow the “West Wing” format and basically say, “Screw the rules, we’re just going to talk back and forth.”
9:38: Social security is the third rail of politics. If they talk about reforming it, they’re in trouble. “The straight talk express lost a wheel.” Nice. I’m sure he was waiting for the opportunity to use it.
9:40: Obama is steering the question away from what Brokaw said.
9:41: I’LL answer the question. Oh, snap.
9:41: Oh God, another frakking commission.
9:42: Look at the record? Keating 5.
9:43: McCain tries to distance himself from the Bush administration. Smart. Let’s see if Obama tries to tie him right back to it. Meantime he follows the West Wing scenario, advocating nuclear fuel just as Vinick did. Again, let’s hope a nuclear meltdown doesn’t happen to keep the scenario going.
9:45: Is EVERYTHING one of the biggest challenges of our time?
9:46: YES! Obama finally hits the nail in talking about the fact that McCain has been there for so long and hasn’t accomplished any of the things he talks about.
9:47: God, I just wish that Brokaw would just say, “Look, do you guys just want to toss the rules? Because if you do, let’s take the gloves off and go and I will go ‘Meet the Press’ on both of you.”
9:51: No. the health care in the congress is one of the most generous policies ever. They have all the stuff that we have slowly lost over the years due to the insurance companies.
9:52: Notice that Obama is no longer (a) stuttering at the start of questions and (b) saying “Senator McCain is absolutely right” about anything.
9:53: Why does no one point out that $5000 won’t get you health insurance?
9:54: cross-state insurance won’t work. NY people can’t go flocking to Ohio for health insurance, because in many states the state governments supplement the medical programs (the HIP program, for instance, is supplemented by state taxpayer money.) If the state governments see people flooding in from other states whose taxes aren’t going into the pot, how likely are they to continue supplementing the programs?
9:56: Oooo. Obama finally brings the personal aspect in.
9:57: Hah! He brought up McCain voting against children’s healthcare. I was wondering if he would.
9:58: Obama just stepped in something and he knows it. Biden’s from Delaware.
9:59: Obama can use this question as a major opportunity to link McCain to Bush when it comes to damaging our ability to act as peacemakers.
10:01: Obama was wrong about the surge. And McCain was wrong about every aspect of the war.
10:02: Not really answering the question, but he’s jabbing back at McCain at least.
10:03: 79 comments on this thread thus far. As of this time during the VP debate we had over 200.
10:05: I agree with McCain: It requires a cool hand at the tiller. Unfortunately his is anything BUT a cool hand. That’s the problem.
10:07: “Your young men and women are my first priority right after our nation’s security.” Which would make them your…second priority.
10:09: Except the problem is that more troops in Afghanistan will likely not lead to much except more deaths of civilians which is going to pìšš øff the people there and further inflame hostility toward us.
10:11: Actually it’s “speak softly and carry a big stick,” which is a West African saying that Roosevelt quoted.
10:13: YES! YES! And notice he said “speaking softly, ” the correct quote.
10:15; And we’re back to McCain’s secret plan to get bin Laden. He keep saying that. He has a secret plan. Has he shared this plan with anyone?
10:16: Brokaw is going to give Saturday night Live a field day.
10:18: Oh my God, McCain said that Obama was correct about something. Is that a first?
10:19: McCain’s right, I doubt we’ll have another cold war with Russia.
10:20: We’ve been SHOWING moral support for Georgia. It didn’t mean jack.
10:21: Yes. Obama jumps on the moral support opening. The question is, where do we get the money to provide financial support. And Obama already said the first thing he would cut would be money designed for foreign support.
10:22: As opposed to anticipating something AFTER it happens?
10;23: Gee, I would have thought McCain says Yes.
10:25: Ooooooo. the Jewish vote is listening carefully.
10:26: Aw, c’mon, are we back to the preconditions thing?
10:27: So Obama is basically saying that we want to take steps to make sure Israel isn’t attacked by Iran. Which is fine. But WHAT IF IT IS? That’s the question. If the steps fail, what then?
10:29: He never answered the question.
10:30: Obama deflects the zen question with humor and switches to his stump speech.
10:31: I could see McCain saying, “I don’t know how we will survive if Obama is elected, and I intend to never have to learn it.”
10:34: Except the great honor of his life was to put himself first. Again, read the RS articles.
CONCLUSION: I think both of them got good shots in. To my mind, Obama gave the better performance, albeit narrowly, but I’ve no idea if anyone who is undecided would have been swayed one way or the other.
• 
One more thing about Israel in this election.
All candidates have pretty much the same opinions about Israel and will support pretty much the same policies. The only difference is that of their personality.
——————
Rob, this whole wiped of the map mistranslation story is complete bûllšhìŧ. The exact wording of Ahmadinejad’s statement might matter to teachers of the Persian language or OCD patients or apologists for Iran’s government or people who dislilke Israel or people who make inappropriate holocaust comparisons. Everybody else should pay attention not to one sentence but to the totality of actions and statements coming out of Iran all the time.
Ahmadinejad had a convention whose title was “a world without zionism [i.e. Israel] a world without America. The way he sees history is that in the 80’s the USSR, which was an enemy of Islam, fell, and soon America and Israel will fall too. But I can assure you that he does not want to send Americans to concentration camps. Not at all. So no biggy. Of course, America might still continue to exist even if the regime will fall according to his system. Israel, on the other hand, will be dismantled. What will happen to us Israelis under the regime Ahmadinejad would like to see replace Israel, I’ll leave it to you to guess.
As a side note I should say that I have a problem with people both on the right or left, pro or anti Israeli side throwing around the word holocaust all the time. It’s bad for the memory of the holocaust and its bad for all the bad things happening in the world that are bad but not exactly like the holocaust. Its bad for the things that are not exactly like the holocaust but are nevertheless too close.
Which is not to say that I’m ignoring the fact that Ahmadinejad made a antisemitism 101 speech before the assembly of the league of nations a few weeks ago. Good for Obama for speaking out against it.
And on another nicer side note apparently the Israeli ministry of the interior will allow an Iranian child who needs some kind of special surgery to come into Israel to get the surgery. So, some good news for a change on that front.
PAD wondered the same thing, J. Alexander (see the comment at 5:28 A.M.).
I pose the question: why can’t it be both? 😉
PAD wondered the same thing, J. Alexander (see the comment at 5:28 A.M.).
I pose the question: why can’t it be both? 😉
The way he sees history is that in the 80’s the USSR, which was an enemy of Islam, fell, and soon America and Israel will fall too. But I can assure you that he does not want to send Americans to concentration camps. Not at all. So no biggy.
If he thinks that Israel and America and even Canada will fall, I say let him think that. Let him think whatever he wants so long as he (or anybody else in Iran’s government) doesn’t take an active role in making it happen.
I’m afraid that I can’t agree with you about whether the specifics of what he said mattered. According to McCain, he made a direct threat against Israel. Whether that’s true or not is a big deal, and makes a big difference.
The way he sees history is that in the 80’s the USSR, which was an enemy of Islam, fell, and soon America and Israel will fall too. But I can assure you that he does not want to send Americans to concentration camps. Not at all. So no biggy.
If he thinks that Israel and America and even Canada will fall, I say let him think that. Let him think whatever he wants so long as he (or anybody else in Iran’s government) doesn’t take an active role in making it happen.
I’m afraid that I can’t agree with you about whether the specifics of what he said mattered. According to McCain, he made a direct threat against Israel. Whether that’s true or not is a big deal, and makes a big difference.
Holy crap, check out this clip of McCain having some kind of flashback: youtube.com/watch?v=JYFm5kK4f1k
Holy crap, check out this clip of McCain having some kind of flashback: youtube.com/watch?v=JYFm5kK4f1k
I’m surprised he didn’t correct himself immediately after he misspoke. Inspires confidence, doesn’t it?
I’m surprised he didn’t correct himself immediately after he misspoke. Inspires confidence, doesn’t it?
Micha: “Which is not to say that I’m ignoring the fact that Ahmadinejad made a antisemitism 101 speech before the assembly of the league of nations a few weeks ago.”
Pssst! No one tell Ahmadinejad that the League of Nations was dissolved in 1946. Let’s see how long it takes for him to figure it out on his own.
When he does figure it out, let’s get everyone in the U.N. to hide the next time he visits to confuse him even further.
🙂
Bill! Hiding from the Iranians only emboldens them and makes us look like fraidy-cats! Shame on you for suggesting such a thing!
😉
Bill! Hiding from the Iranians only emboldens them and makes us look like fraidy-cats! Shame on you for suggesting such a thing!
😉
Rob Brown: “I’m afraid that I can’t agree with you about whether the specifics of what he said mattered.”
That’s not what Micha said. Micha is suggesting that arguing over whether the remark was mis-translated is irrelevant in the greater context of Ahmadinejad’s rhetoric and the actions of his nation. I think that’s a pretty reasonable statement on Micha’s part.
Oh, and I’d rather not politicize the joke I made re: the League of Nations. It was just an attempt to gently poke fun at a friend for a rare lapse.
Rob Brown: “I’m afraid that I can’t agree with you about whether the specifics of what he said mattered.”
That’s not what Micha said. Micha is suggesting that arguing over whether the remark was mis-translated is irrelevant in the greater context of Ahmadinejad’s rhetoric and the actions of his nation. I think that’s a pretty reasonable statement on Micha’s part.
Oh, and I’d rather not politicize the joke I made re: the League of Nations. It was just an attempt to gently poke fun at a friend for a rare lapse.
If Iran attacks Israel with nuclear weapons Israel will probably end. It will be too late for anything. Israel will be destroyed, Iran will survive but suffer a nuclear counterstrike. (Unless the anti-missle systems that Israel and the Americans are developing together will work).
Why do you think There would be anything left of Iran? Granted, it’s a big place but Israel has enough missiles to ensure that most of the places worth living in would be thermic mist. The rest would be carved up by Iraq, Turkey, Pakistan, and Turkmenistan, if they think it’s worth the bother of feeding a lot of soon to be cancer ridden Persians.
It would bring an entirely new definition to the term Pyrrhic Victory. You have to hope they aren’t that stupid.
Now…what if they launch an attack and it fails? The missiles are shot down or crash due to shoddy workmanship and it turns out that they were nukes…how does Israel respond?
If Iran attacks Israel with nuclear weapons Israel will probably end. It will be too late for anything. Israel will be destroyed, Iran will survive but suffer a nuclear counterstrike. (Unless the anti-missle systems that Israel and the Americans are developing together will work).
Why do you think There would be anything left of Iran? Granted, it’s a big place but Israel has enough missiles to ensure that most of the places worth living in would be thermic mist. The rest would be carved up by Iraq, Turkey, Pakistan, and Turkmenistan, if they think it’s worth the bother of feeding a lot of soon to be cancer ridden Persians.
It would bring an entirely new definition to the term Pyrrhic Victory. You have to hope they aren’t that stupid.
Now…what if they launch an attack and it fails? The missiles are shot down or crash due to shoddy workmanship and it turns out that they were nukes…how does Israel respond?
Rob Brown: “If he thinks that Israel and America and even Canada will fall, I say let him think that. Let him think whatever he wants so long as he (or anybody else in Iran’s government) doesn’t take an active role in making it happen.”
He is taking an active role in making it happen. Certainly in the case of Israel, less directly in the case of the US.
Rob Brown: “I’m afraid that I can’t agree with you about whether the specifics of what he said mattered. According to McCain, he made a direct threat against Israel. Whether that’s true or not is a big deal, and makes a big difference.”
Look, I guess I’ll have to spell it out here. Iran is not hiding anything. They are very clear in their rhetoric against, in their threats against and in their actions concerning Israel. They are backing up with money, training and weapons the Hizballa in Lebanon, and Hamas and the Islamic Jihad in the West Bank and Gaza. Members of these organization train in Iran. Iraninan officers come over to help them in Lebanon, and I think in Gaza too. They also help Syria, and have army bases there. In other words, Israel is in a cold war with Iran and these groups are their proxies. So really, wasting time about the exact translation of one sentence is silly. McCain should stop mentioning it and so should you.
And a clarification is necessary here for the sake of both neo-cons and liberals. The Hamas and the Islamic Jihad are local Palestinian organizations that are fighting only against Israel (and sometimes other Palestinian organizations). They are not at war with the US. The Hizballa [party of god] is a Lebanese Shia pro-Syrian organization. It is at war with Israel and is trying to gain more and more power in Lebanon. It has also people working for it in the Brasilian Argentine border (Igwasu Falls very beatiful bigger than Niagra), which they used in order to attack the Israeli Embassy and a Jewish organization in Buenos Aires. In the past it killed your marines in Lebanon and kidnapped some of your civilians. One of their leaders (Murania [spl], who looked a little like Rob Riner for some reason) was responsible for the TWA kidnapping back in the 80s and maybe other things I’m not aware of. But It is not at present in direct war with the US, although it opposes the pro-western forces in Lebanon. So in all three cases it is only an Israeli war, not yours, although the support is appreciated.
————————-
Bill Myers: “Pssst! No one tell Ahmadinejad that the League of Nations was dissolved in 1946. Let’s see how long it takes for him to figure it out on his own.
When he does figure it out, let’s get everyone in the U.N. to hide the next time he visits to confuse him even further.
Oh, and I’d rather not politicize the joke I made re: the League of Nations. It was just an attempt to gently poke fun at a friend for a rare lapse.”
I’m afraid I’m guilty of politicizing here. I know that we now have the UN instead of the league of nations. But I don’t see much difference between the two. I’m not a big fan of the UN, you realize.
“It would bring an entirely new definition to the term Pyrrhic Victory. You have to hope they aren’t that stupid.”
I don’t know what’s israel’s nuclear capacity if any. It’s all rumors. Iran is a very big place. But I don’t think Iran will use the weapons when they get them anyway. But that’s the šhìŧŧÿ thing about a cold war with nuclear weapons. You hope that he other side isn’t crazy, but you can’t be sure.
“Now…what if they launch an attack and it fails? The missiles are shot down or crash due to shoddy workmanship and it turns out that they were nukes…how does Israel respond?”
I don’t know. It is hard to imagine.
———————
I shhould add that Iran doesn’t like America, and may be involved in Iraq. But at present they are not making direct threats against it the way they do about Israel except on the theoretical level of a world without america. However, the greatest concern Iran poses to America has to do with the Guld countries not Israel despite the fact that the rhetoric is less inflammatory there.
when I said that ahmadinejad is using Israel for PR, it does not mean he doesn’t mean it or believe it. Look, when you went to war with iraq for the first time, Saddam fired missiles on Israel because he wanted to apppear like the great arab hero fighting against Israel instead of a guy who just invaded another arab country. But the missiles were real.
“It would bring an entirely new definition to the term Pyrrhic Victory. You have to hope they aren’t that stupid.”
I don’t know what’s israel’s nuclear capacity if any. It’s all rumors. Iran is a very big place. But I don’t think Iran will use the weapons when they get them anyway. But that’s the šhìŧŧÿ thing about a cold war with nuclear weapons. You hope that he other side isn’t crazy, but you can’t be sure.
“Now…what if they launch an attack and it fails? The missiles are shot down or crash due to shoddy workmanship and it turns out that they were nukes…how does Israel respond?”
I don’t know. It is hard to imagine.
———————
I shhould add that Iran doesn’t like America, and may be involved in Iraq. But at present they are not making direct threats against it the way they do about Israel except on the theoretical level of a world without america. However, the greatest concern Iran poses to America has to do with the Guld countries not Israel despite the fact that the rhetoric is less inflammatory there.
when I said that ahmadinejad is using Israel for PR, it does not mean he doesn’t mean it or believe it. Look, when you went to war with iraq for the first time, Saddam fired missiles on Israel because he wanted to apppear like the great arab hero fighting against Israel instead of a guy who just invaded another arab country. But the missiles were real.
About the candidates going on and on … don’t those microphones have ‘kill’ switches? That would solve the problem simply and effectively. “OK, once we start, you’ll have [insert time] to respond on any given question, then your microphone goes dead. Please sign this piece of paper stating you understand this.” End of problem.
About the candidates going on and on … don’t those microphones have ‘kill’ switches? That would solve the problem simply and effectively. “OK, once we start, you’ll have [insert time] to respond on any given question, then your microphone goes dead. Please sign this piece of paper stating you understand this.” End of problem.
“…and set an aircraft carrier on fire…”
The only thing connecting McCain to this event was that he was on the carrier when it happened.
This happened because basic safety precautions were bypassed because it seemed easier and faster to get the airplanes airborne without those safety precautions.
All of this has been documented, and shown on the History Channel. It is probably rerun every month or so.
“…and set an aircraft carrier on fire…”
The only thing connecting McCain to this event was that he was on the carrier when it happened.
This happened because basic safety precautions were bypassed because it seemed easier and faster to get the airplanes airborne without those safety precautions.
All of this has been documented, and shown on the History Channel. It is probably rerun every month or so.
Rob Brown wondered about a missed bunt in Major League Baseball.
If you had watched the Detroit Tigers this year, you would have seen missed bunts. Then again, perhaps calling the Tigers a Major League Baseball team isn’t a true statement.
Sometime stories about guys who kill their own families and then themselves will make the news. We’re wondering what the urgency to kill his kids are when they have every hope of the life they have ahead of them. The reason to them is keeping control of their children up to taking their lives.
Sometimes the stories circulating is that of some guy who kills himself rather than allowing the police to capture him, like school shooting. Again, if they kill themselves, they never let go of control. Sociopathic doesn’t necessarily mean stupid.
Sometime stories about guys who kill their own families and then themselves will make the news. We’re wondering what the urgency to kill his kids are when they have every hope of the life they have ahead of them. The reason to them is keeping control of their children up to taking their lives.
Sometimes the stories circulating is that of some guy who kills himself rather than allowing the police to capture him, like school shooting. Again, if they kill themselves, they never let go of control. Sociopathic doesn’t necessarily mean stupid.
When was the last time one of those happened in a major league game? I’m curious. It would probably be more embarassing for the batter than McCain failing to get any laughs was embarassing for him, but not by a whole lot.
i don’t know if you were joking or not but the answer is about two days ago. The Angels went for a suicide squeeze in the top of the ninth, and the batter missed the ball allowing them to tag out the runner.
When was the last time one of those happened in a major league game? I’m curious. It would probably be more embarassing for the batter than McCain failing to get any laughs was embarassing for him, but not by a whole lot.
i don’t know if you were joking or not but the answer is about two days ago. The Angels went for a suicide squeeze in the top of the ninth, and the batter missed the ball allowing them to tag out the runner.
jasonk: i don’t know if you were joking or not but the answer is about two days ago.
Nah, I wasn’t joking. I haven’t watched baseball since 2004. When I did, I can’t recall anybody ever missing a bunt, so I guess it would be pretty embarassing.
Micha: Look, I guess I’ll have to spell it out here. Iran is not hiding anything. They are very clear in their rhetoric against, in their threats against and in their actions concerning Israel.
Okay. Tell me what they’ve threatened to do.
I’m sorry if my ignorance here frustrates you, but the thing that’s gotten all the play in the North American media is Ahmadinejad supposedly talking about wiping Israel off the map. If he didn’t say THAT, I’d like to know what he–or others in Iran’s government–did say that is pretty much the same, i.e. a threat to launch an attack against Israel, or destroy Israel.
He is taking an active role in making it happen. Certainly in the case of Israel, less directly in the case of the US.
How?
jasonk: i don’t know if you were joking or not but the answer is about two days ago.
Nah, I wasn’t joking. I haven’t watched baseball since 2004. When I did, I can’t recall anybody ever missing a bunt, so I guess it would be pretty embarassing.
Micha: Look, I guess I’ll have to spell it out here. Iran is not hiding anything. They are very clear in their rhetoric against, in their threats against and in their actions concerning Israel.
Okay. Tell me what they’ve threatened to do.
I’m sorry if my ignorance here frustrates you, but the thing that’s gotten all the play in the North American media is Ahmadinejad supposedly talking about wiping Israel off the map. If he didn’t say THAT, I’d like to know what he–or others in Iran’s government–did say that is pretty much the same, i.e. a threat to launch an attack against Israel, or destroy Israel.
He is taking an active role in making it happen. Certainly in the case of Israel, less directly in the case of the US.
How?
Posted by Peter David
I have this funny feeling that McCain referred to him as “that one” because he blanked on his name.
Ooh – that’s nastier than assuming he was merely being impolite.
At this point the big difference between the two is that Bush didn’t keep crashing his planes.
Would have if they’d let him keep flying; i have faith.
Posted by Alan Coil
The only thing connecting McCain to this event was that he was on the carrier when it happened.
Well, and it was his aircraft that caught fire.
Not that he had anything to do with that (aside from worrying how to get his butt out without getting cooled).
There’s a “Christian” (Anti-Semitic, judging by its front page, which is as far as i got, and i don’t remember the URL) website that has a post claiming to be by a Naval aviator who was aboard the ForestFire that says that McCain started the fire by engaging in some dangerous horseplay that caused his aircraft to belch a burst of flame at the one behnd it.
Someone on another site where that was quoted replied that, according to the subsequent investigation, McCain’s aircraft was on the flight deck with its tailpipe pointed overside.
Posted by Peter David
I have this funny feeling that McCain referred to him as “that one” because he blanked on his name.
Ooh – that’s nastier than assuming he was merely being impolite.
At this point the big difference between the two is that Bush didn’t keep crashing his planes.
Would have if they’d let him keep flying; i have faith.
Posted by Alan Coil
The only thing connecting McCain to this event was that he was on the carrier when it happened.
Well, and it was his aircraft that caught fire.
Not that he had anything to do with that (aside from worrying how to get his butt out without getting cooled).
There’s a “Christian” (Anti-Semitic, judging by its front page, which is as far as i got, and i don’t remember the URL) website that has a post claiming to be by a Naval aviator who was aboard the ForestFire that says that McCain started the fire by engaging in some dangerous horseplay that caused his aircraft to belch a burst of flame at the one behnd it.
Someone on another site where that was quoted replied that, according to the subsequent investigation, McCain’s aircraft was on the flight deck with its tailpipe pointed overside.
Rob, I’ve answered you in detail as to what Iran has actively done against Israel, i.e. the use of proxies. I also specifically said as far as we know Iran is not planning at present to attack Israel directly. Why should it? The use of proxies is the preferred method.
If you are interested in statements you can go to answers.com and read all about the statements and debates and adapted statements made to fit western ears and so forth. Although I’m not sure if you will be capable of understanding from it a situation where there is continued rhetoric questioning the existence of one’s country and demonizing it. In the rallies they yell death to Israel, not health to Israel, you know. But Answers.com focuses more on specific statements in western media related to Ahmadinejad than the general atmosphere we have here every day.
You can also go to the blog Kamangir (type in google) which is by an Iranian living in Canada. He has addressed this issue too. He is not a big fan of Ahmadinejad, it should be noted.
Rob, I’ve answered you in detail as to what Iran has actively done against Israel, i.e. the use of proxies. I also specifically said as far as we know Iran is not planning at present to attack Israel directly. Why should it? The use of proxies is the preferred method.
If you are interested in statements you can go to answers.com and read all about the statements and debates and adapted statements made to fit western ears and so forth. Although I’m not sure if you will be capable of understanding from it a situation where there is continued rhetoric questioning the existence of one’s country and demonizing it. In the rallies they yell death to Israel, not health to Israel, you know. But Answers.com focuses more on specific statements in western media related to Ahmadinejad than the general atmosphere we have here every day.
You can also go to the blog Kamangir (type in google) which is by an Iranian living in Canada. He has addressed this issue too. He is not a big fan of Ahmadinejad, it should be noted.
Rob, I’ve answered you in detail as to what Iran has actively done against Israel, i.e. the use of proxies. I also specifically said as far as we know Iran is not planning at present to attack Israel directly. Why should it? The use of proxies is the preferred method.
I also pointed out that Iran is not waging direct war against the US (I don’t know about its involvement in Iraq).
If you are interested in statements you can go to answers.com and read all about the statements and debates and adapted statements made to fit western ears and so forth. Although I’m not sure if you will be capable of understanding from it a situation where there is continued rhetoric questioning the existence of one’s country and demonizing it. In the rallies they yell death to Israel, not health to Israel, you know. But Answers.com focuses more on specific statements in western media related to Ahmadinejad than the general atmosphere we have here every day.
You can also go to the blog Kamangir (type in google) which is by an Iranian living in Canada. He has addressed this issue too. He is not a big fan of Ahmadinejad, it should be noted.
Rob, I’ve answered you in detail as to what Iran has actively done against Israel, i.e. the use of proxies. I also specifically said as far as we know Iran is not planning at present to attack Israel directly. Why should it? The use of proxies is the preferred method.
I also pointed out that Iran is not waging direct war against the US (I don’t know about its involvement in Iraq).
If you are interested in statements you can go to answers.com and read all about the statements and debates and adapted statements made to fit western ears and so forth. Although I’m not sure if you will be capable of understanding from it a situation where there is continued rhetoric questioning the existence of one’s country and demonizing it. In the rallies they yell death to Israel, not health to Israel, you know. But Answers.com focuses more on specific statements in western media related to Ahmadinejad than the general atmosphere we have here every day.
You can also go to the blog Kamangir (type in google) which is by an Iranian living in Canada. He has addressed this issue too. He is not a big fan of Ahmadinejad, it should be noted.
The only thing connecting McCain to this event was that he was on the carrier when it happened.
Well, and it was his aircraft that caught fire.
yeah, when it was hit by an accidentally fired missile. Fired by an aircraft that was on the other side of the carrier. Astonishing. Unable to stop missiles with his force of will. And some call this man a hero???
The only thing connecting McCain to this event was that he was on the carrier when it happened.
Well, and it was his aircraft that caught fire.
yeah, when it was hit by an accidentally fired missile. Fired by an aircraft that was on the other side of the carrier. Astonishing. Unable to stop missiles with his force of will. And some call this man a hero???
Nobody wants an accident prone president. He’ll spill drinks on foreign dignitaries.
Better than vomiting on them, I suppose.
Better than vomiting on them, I suppose.
“Better than vomiting on them, I suppose.”
This could be a good campaign slogan.
“Better than vomiting on them, I suppose.”
This could be a good campaign slogan.
Have to remember that for my inevitable abandonment of my video career and the equally inevitable plunge into politics.
Bill Mulligan: yeah, when it was hit by an accidentally fired missile. Fired by an aircraft that was on the other side of the carrier. Astonishing. Unable to stop missiles with his force of will. And some call this man a hero???
I think it’s reasonable to chalk that up to bad luck. But I also think that examining how he reacted in that crisis in comparison with other people on the ship is fair game. I’ve seen more than one version of the story and it’s impossible to know exactly what happened unless you were there. If the Rolling Stone article is right, however, he did significantly less to fight the fire and save lives than the rest of the crew.
For me, the Forrestal fire isn’t that big of a deal one way or the other. It doesn’t make the top ten list of reasons why I don’t want to see McCain win in November.
Bill Mulligan: yeah, when it was hit by an accidentally fired missile. Fired by an aircraft that was on the other side of the carrier. Astonishing. Unable to stop missiles with his force of will. And some call this man a hero???
I think it’s reasonable to chalk that up to bad luck. But I also think that examining how he reacted in that crisis in comparison with other people on the ship is fair game. I’ve seen more than one version of the story and it’s impossible to know exactly what happened unless you were there. If the Rolling Stone article is right, however, he did significantly less to fight the fire and save lives than the rest of the crew.
For me, the Forrestal fire isn’t that big of a deal one way or the other. It doesn’t make the top ten list of reasons why I don’t want to see McCain win in November.
I’ve seen more than one version of the story and it’s impossible to know exactly what happened unless you were there.
Actually, it’s easily available to watch on video. It may even be on youtube.
I’ve seen more than one version of the story and it’s impossible to know exactly what happened unless you were there.
Actually, it’s easily available to watch on video. It may even be on youtube.
It’s worth pointing out that Ahmadinejad is considered a right wing nutball in Iran.
Okay, maybe not “nutball,” but I’ve seen a couple different reporters say that he’s considered an embarrassment in Iran, in kinda the same way that many people in the USA consider Bush an embarrassment. There is significant indication that the election in Iran next year will produce a more moderate President. Maybe not as moderate as we’d like, but probably a significant improvement over Ahmadinejad.
It’s worth pointing out that Ahmadinejad is considered a right wing nutball in Iran.
Okay, maybe not “nutball,” but I’ve seen a couple different reporters say that he’s considered an embarrassment in Iran, in kinda the same way that many people in the USA consider Bush an embarrassment. There is significant indication that the election in Iran next year will produce a more moderate President. Maybe not as moderate as we’d like, but probably a significant improvement over Ahmadinejad.