Thus far the blogging of the VP debate drew comments faster and more furiously than the Presidential debate. Let’s see what happens this time around. As always, I’m watching the broadcast on PBS. Comments below the cut line.
9:02: ” I have selected a long list of excellent questions that will not be answered…”
9:03: McCain in a red tie, Obama in a blue tie. Perfect.
9:03: Obama goes for the attack early.
9:05: I’m being reminded of the Underpants gnomes from “South Park.” “Step One, Bailout. Step two…(deafening silence). Step three: Profit!”
9:06: Huh? Energy independence? Uhm…okay.
9:07: I’m waiting for McCain to sit down on the step next to the guy. Maybe ask him to sit in his lap.
9:08: And McCain goes for a joke! It’s a missed bunt.
9:09: Here’s the problem: McCain is talking about wall Street cronyism, yet he has plenty of Wall Street lobbyists on his staff.
9:10: Obama continues on the attack. He’s trying to bait McCain into blowing his temper, get scolding, etc. It’s a gambit; if it doesn’t work, if McCain doesn’t respond to the attacks, Obama going to look as if he’s endlessly carping.
9:12: The questioner is looking for specifics. Let’s see if he gets them. And now McCain fires back at Obama, referring to “cronies.” Obama is going to have to spend time defending himself rather than getting specific.
9:14: Smart. Obama speaks to the question first rather than responding to McCain’s charges.
9:15: And yet politicians ARE pointing fingers.
9:18: How do we trust you? Good question.
9:19: This could wind up being a major question because Obama tends to be a history and facts wonk while McCain does better in connecting with people on an emotional level, and trust is an emotional question.
9:20: This would have been the question for Obama to talk about hardscrabble roots or some such, the notion that “I’ve known hard times, I’m on your side.”
9:21: No, he has NOT been a consistent reformer. He has been consistently self serving. Read the Rolling Stones article.
9:22: They’re both blowing this opportunity. This is the kind of question that Bill Clinton would have knocked out of the park. Say what you will about Clinton, but he has tremendous personal charisma and you would have seen it on display for this question.
9:24: he could work on all three at once? NOW he can multi task? He couldn’t even campaign and work on the economy at the same time.
9:25: Every time he says, “My friends” I keep flashing back to “The Music Man” doing “Trouble.”
9:26: Yeah, but JFK had to die to give us the impetus to get to the moon.
9:27: Brokaw is trying his best to rein them in for time.
9:29: That air force tanker was actually a pork barrel project that he managed to push past through Carter’s objections. And there was a lawsuit involved as well because of European involvement that made its construction unfair competition for Americans.
9:30: OBAMA mentioned 9/11 first? Cripes.
9:31: Still, the comment about going out and shopping “not being the kind of call to service we were looking for” is kind of funny.
9:32: Clean coal technology is a myth. Unless there’s a new scientific breakthrough, it’s never going to happen.
9:33 If Bush says Wall Street got drunk, I’d take his word for it. With his history, he’d know.
9:34 I wonder if either of them will talk about putting Wall street on a 12 step program.
9:35: Obama should say, “I know Senator Obama worked with Herbert Hoover and knew Herbert Hoover, but I assure you I’m no Herbert Hoover.”
9:37: I keep waiting for them to follow the “West Wing” format and basically say, “Screw the rules, we’re just going to talk back and forth.”
9:38: Social security is the third rail of politics. If they talk about reforming it, they’re in trouble. “The straight talk express lost a wheel.” Nice. I’m sure he was waiting for the opportunity to use it.
9:40: Obama is steering the question away from what Brokaw said.
9:41: I’LL answer the question. Oh, snap.
9:41: Oh God, another frakking commission.
9:42: Look at the record? Keating 5.
9:43: McCain tries to distance himself from the Bush administration. Smart. Let’s see if Obama tries to tie him right back to it. Meantime he follows the West Wing scenario, advocating nuclear fuel just as Vinick did. Again, let’s hope a nuclear meltdown doesn’t happen to keep the scenario going.
9:45: Is EVERYTHING one of the biggest challenges of our time?
9:46: YES! Obama finally hits the nail in talking about the fact that McCain has been there for so long and hasn’t accomplished any of the things he talks about.
9:47: God, I just wish that Brokaw would just say, “Look, do you guys just want to toss the rules? Because if you do, let’s take the gloves off and go and I will go ‘Meet the Press’ on both of you.”
9:51: No. the health care in the congress is one of the most generous policies ever. They have all the stuff that we have slowly lost over the years due to the insurance companies.
9:52: Notice that Obama is no longer (a) stuttering at the start of questions and (b) saying “Senator McCain is absolutely right” about anything.
9:53: Why does no one point out that $5000 won’t get you health insurance?
9:54: cross-state insurance won’t work. NY people can’t go flocking to Ohio for health insurance, because in many states the state governments supplement the medical programs (the HIP program, for instance, is supplemented by state taxpayer money.) If the state governments see people flooding in from other states whose taxes aren’t going into the pot, how likely are they to continue supplementing the programs?
9:56: Oooo. Obama finally brings the personal aspect in.
9:57: Hah! He brought up McCain voting against children’s healthcare. I was wondering if he would.
9:58: Obama just stepped in something and he knows it. Biden’s from Delaware.
9:59: Obama can use this question as a major opportunity to link McCain to Bush when it comes to damaging our ability to act as peacemakers.
10:01: Obama was wrong about the surge. And McCain was wrong about every aspect of the war.
10:02: Not really answering the question, but he’s jabbing back at McCain at least.
10:03: 79 comments on this thread thus far. As of this time during the VP debate we had over 200.
10:05: I agree with McCain: It requires a cool hand at the tiller. Unfortunately his is anything BUT a cool hand. That’s the problem.
10:07: “Your young men and women are my first priority right after our nation’s security.” Which would make them your…second priority.
10:09: Except the problem is that more troops in Afghanistan will likely not lead to much except more deaths of civilians which is going to pìšš øff the people there and further inflame hostility toward us.
10:11: Actually it’s “speak softly and carry a big stick,” which is a West African saying that Roosevelt quoted.
10:13: YES! YES! And notice he said “speaking softly, ” the correct quote.
10:15; And we’re back to McCain’s secret plan to get bin Laden. He keep saying that. He has a secret plan. Has he shared this plan with anyone?
10:16: Brokaw is going to give Saturday night Live a field day.
10:18: Oh my God, McCain said that Obama was correct about something. Is that a first?
10:19: McCain’s right, I doubt we’ll have another cold war with Russia.
10:20: We’ve been SHOWING moral support for Georgia. It didn’t mean jack.
10:21: Yes. Obama jumps on the moral support opening. The question is, where do we get the money to provide financial support. And Obama already said the first thing he would cut would be money designed for foreign support.
10:22: As opposed to anticipating something AFTER it happens?
10;23: Gee, I would have thought McCain says Yes.
10:25: Ooooooo. the Jewish vote is listening carefully.
10:26: Aw, c’mon, are we back to the preconditions thing?
10:27: So Obama is basically saying that we want to take steps to make sure Israel isn’t attacked by Iran. Which is fine. But WHAT IF IT IS? That’s the question. If the steps fail, what then?
10:29: He never answered the question.
10:30: Obama deflects the zen question with humor and switches to his stump speech.
10:31: I could see McCain saying, “I don’t know how we will survive if Obama is elected, and I intend to never have to learn it.”
10:34: Except the great honor of his life was to put himself first. Again, read the RS articles.
CONCLUSION: I think both of them got good shots in. To my mind, Obama gave the better performance, albeit narrowly, but I’ve no idea if anyone who is undecided would have been swayed one way or the other.
• 
Jason, I’m not defending these people, I despise them. But I think the woman that said “arab” probably meant “muslim”, or at least thinks of “arab” as a culture. She probably would not have a problem with Colin Powell (then again, she might, seeing as Powell was the lone voice for reason in the insanity that was Bush’s administration).
I’m not saying appearance doesn’t matter, it does. But I think Obama’s name, his weak links to Islamism, his intellectual ways, his urban ways, seem to be more dámņìņg than his physical appearance.
Micha, I think it was great that McCain finally reined in the madness. I want to believe that McCain is too decent a man to feel confortable leading an angry mob with pitchforks and torches, but lately I found myself wondering.
Jason, I’m not defending these people, I despise them. But I think the woman that said “arab” probably meant “muslim”, or at least thinks of “arab” as a culture. She probably would not have a problem with Colin Powell (then again, she might, seeing as Powell was the lone voice for reason in the insanity that was Bush’s administration).
I’m not saying appearance doesn’t matter, it does. But I think Obama’s name, his weak links to Islamism, his intellectual ways, his urban ways, seem to be more dámņìņg than his physical appearance.
Micha, I think it was great that McCain finally reined in the madness. I want to believe that McCain is too decent a man to feel confortable leading an angry mob with pitchforks and torches, but lately I found myself wondering.
Micha: “Does the fact that McCain spoke out against some of the hatred against Obama being voiced in some of his rallies make him seem better in your eyes?”
Yes and no. A part of my hopes that this is John McCain getting his sanity back and wanting to respect him for that. A larger part of me wonders if he legitimately meant it or not. Is this him seeing what he’s let his campaign become and seeing the light or is this a man who is simply acting on political needs? Is this McCain realizing that his tactics are repulsing everyone but the most rabid in “the base” and changing tactics with only the desire to try and salvage his chances?
The intent behind an action means as much as anything else if not more. Right now I need to see a little more before I can really say if it means anything better about McCain or not.
Micha: “Jerry, Bill, apparently my cable provider is going to show a bunch of zombie movies next week in concert with Israel’s only and tiny comic convention. Zombies are hitting Israel.”
What?!? The zombies are invading Israel? Micha, if some new girl with a really bad skin condition and red hair shows up at your local café and aggressively tries to talk you into going out with her “for dinner” later that evening… Pass.
Micha: “Does the fact that McCain spoke out against some of the hatred against Obama being voiced in some of his rallies make him seem better in your eyes?”
Yes and no. A part of my hopes that this is John McCain getting his sanity back and wanting to respect him for that. A larger part of me wonders if he legitimately meant it or not. Is this him seeing what he’s let his campaign become and seeing the light or is this a man who is simply acting on political needs? Is this McCain realizing that his tactics are repulsing everyone but the most rabid in “the base” and changing tactics with only the desire to try and salvage his chances?
The intent behind an action means as much as anything else if not more. Right now I need to see a little more before I can really say if it means anything better about McCain or not.
Micha: “Jerry, Bill, apparently my cable provider is going to show a bunch of zombie movies next week in concert with Israel’s only and tiny comic convention. Zombies are hitting Israel.”
What?!? The zombies are invading Israel? Micha, if some new girl with a really bad skin condition and red hair shows up at your local café and aggressively tries to talk you into going out with her “for dinner” later that evening… Pass.
Bill and Tim,I guess I was askinbg for it.
Jerry, now you tell me?
“I was IN THE POOL!”
Yeah, but it was a warm day so that’s no excuse.
“I was IN THE POOL!”
Yeah, but it was a warm day so that’s no excuse.
roger Tang posted this:
“Suddock repeatedly warned that their behavior was crossing the line, and that their attempts to get Wooten fired would backfire, since it would make him less able to provide financial support for the kids. Apparently, when the final decree was issued in January 2006, Suddock threatened that if their harassment continued, Molly’s child custody rights might be curtailed. Yet the Palins seemed to have totally ignored his orders.”
Red necks all the way. I am so sick of red necks. I am so ashamed of that half of my heritage.
roger Tang posted this:
“Suddock repeatedly warned that their behavior was crossing the line, and that their attempts to get Wooten fired would backfire, since it would make him less able to provide financial support for the kids. Apparently, when the final decree was issued in January 2006, Suddock threatened that if their harassment continued, Molly’s child custody rights might be curtailed. Yet the Palins seemed to have totally ignored his orders.”
Red necks all the way. I am so sick of red necks. I am so ashamed of that half of my heritage.
Palin’s now attacking Obama’s stance on abortion.
Now if this means they talk about this more and talk about Ayers less, I see that as a good thing.
But let’s look at what Palin said and inspect it for stupidity:
“He hopes that you won’t notice how radical, absolutely radical his idea is on (abortion), and his record is, until it’s too late.”
Oh no! RADICAL!!! What could it be???
“A vote for Barack Obama is a vote for activist courts that will continue to smother the open and democratic debate that we deserve and that we need on this issue of life. Obama is a politician who has long since left behind even the middle ground on the issue of life.”
Okay. First, my understanding is that “activist” judges have a desire to change the law. If Obama is pro-choice, then any judges he’d appoint would want the law to stay about the same re. abortion.
Second, this is one of those issues where I can sympathize with both sides, so I’m all for debate. However, when Palin talks about “smothering the debate” about it, what does she want us to think these activist judges will do? Make it illegal to say “abortion”? Put muzzles on all the pro-lifers? How is keeping abortion legal smothering the debate about whether or not it should be legal? People are free to talk about that, whether in coffee shops, or in hospitals, or in Congress.
But we still haven’t heard about Obama’s radical, middle-ground-abandoning, crazy position. Where’s the dámņìņg evidence against him?
Palin also talked about a remark Obama made about sex education while campaigning in Johnstown in March, when he told a voter he didn’t want his daughters “punished with a baby” or “punished with an STD” if they were not educated about sex and made a mistake.
“So I listened when our opponent defended his unconditional support for unlimited abortions and he said he said that a woman shouldn’t have to be ‘Punished with a baby,’ ” Palin said as the audience jeered at Obama. “Ladies and gentlemen, he said that right here in Johnstown. ‘Punished with a baby.’ It’s about time we called him on it.”
Not the best choice of words by Obama, I admit. But what’s the big deal here? Does anybody think that an unwanted pregnancy is cause for happiness? Does Palin not realize that being pregnant sometimes does feel like a punishment? Maybe her own daughter felt like she was being punished.
Last, Obama was talking about sex education. Sex education reduces unwanted pregnancies and, by extension, girls and women put in the unenviable position of having to decide whether to go through a pregnancy (which can be very, very hard, I’m told) or have an abortion (which can also be very, very hard).
So Obama’s “radical idea” is that a woman who gets impregnated unexpectedly might feel really upset and really bad, might feel like she’s being punished for not taking the right precautions or for not waiting until marriage or whatever.
Yeah Sarah, that’s crazy talk.
Palin is also misrepresenting a major point about Obama in the born-alive abortion issue. She’s saying that he didn’t want a law that would have protected babies who survived abortions. That’s the “radical” view on abortion that she’s talking about.
What she fails to point out is that Illinois *already* had a law protecting born-alive babies. They’ve had it since 1975. So protecting them was never an issue.
Palin is also misrepresenting a major point about Obama in the born-alive abortion issue. She’s saying that he didn’t want a law that would have protected babies who survived abortions. That’s the “radical” view on abortion that she’s talking about.
What she fails to point out is that Illinois *already* had a law protecting born-alive babies. They’ve had it since 1975. So protecting them was never an issue.
Alan Coil: “Red necks all the way. I am so sick of red necks.”
Try substituting the “n-word” for “red necks” and tell me if you’re equally comfortable with the statement above. I’d wager the answer is “no.”
There’s never any justification for stereotyping. Individuals should be judged on their own merits or lack thereof, and nothing else.
Alan Coil: “Red necks all the way. I am so sick of red necks.”
Try substituting the “n-word” for “red necks” and tell me if you’re equally comfortable with the statement above. I’d wager the answer is “no.”
There’s never any justification for stereotyping. Individuals should be judged on their own merits or lack thereof, and nothing else.
Interesting.
I read about it on cnn.com, which didn’t say anything about babies who survived abortions. But it did include links to video of a speech given by Palin, which I didn’t bother to watch. Was her accusation in there, or did you find it somewhere else?
Anyway, that kind of thing is pretty despicable. I wish I could say I was disappointed, but it’s what I’ve come to expect from her.
Interesting.
I read about it on cnn.com, which didn’t say anything about babies who survived abortions. But it did include links to video of a speech given by Palin, which I didn’t bother to watch. Was her accusation in there, or did you find it somewhere else?
Anyway, that kind of thing is pretty despicable. I wish I could say I was disappointed, but it’s what I’ve come to expect from her.
I can’t find a full transscript of what she said, but this article gives a little more info on the speech:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/campaign-2008/story/722415.html
Key part: Speaking at a rally in a packed minor league hockey arena in Johnstown, Pa., Palin accused Obama of consistently supporting abortion legislation as a legislator in Illinois and in Washington.
Here’s a summary of the issue that they’re trying to attack Obama with. The particular ad being examined here was made by an anti-abortion group, but it is the same issue.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_alive_baloney.html
I can’t find a full transscript of what she said, but this article gives a little more info on the speech:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/campaign-2008/story/722415.html
Key part: Speaking at a rally in a packed minor league hockey arena in Johnstown, Pa., Palin accused Obama of consistently supporting abortion legislation as a legislator in Illinois and in Washington.
Here’s a summary of the issue that they’re trying to attack Obama with. The particular ad being examined here was made by an anti-abortion group, but it is the same issue.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_alive_baloney.html
When it comes to getting out the vote, abortion is getting to be a non-starter. Haven’t polls shown that a majority of people are now in favor of abortion rights?
At any rate, they’ve gone from Ayers to abortion… Yeah, I think McCain’s campaign is a bit lost right now considering that, you know, they’re still completely avoiding the issues (of which abortion is not among them).
But hey, everything about Obama is radical, so make sure you vote against the most liberal man in America, ok? *insert eye roll*
My mistake, I should have said that this was the key part: She blasted Obama for not supporting so-called “Born Alive” bills in the Illinois legislature in 2001, 2002 and 2003. They would have defined any aborted fetus that showed signs of life as a “born alive infant” due legal protection, even if doctors thought the fetus could not survive.
There is a quibble in Palin’s defense. The law that was active in Illinois while Obama was in office was not as strict as the one proposed. However, she’s making it sound like there was no protection for born alive fetus’ at all and he wanted to keep it that way. Obama’s stance was that the new law needed to be worded in a way to make sure it didn’t try to weaken Roe vs. Wade. So while there is an argument to be had between her position and his, she’s massively exaggerating when she paints his position as being radical.
My mistake, I should have said that this was the key part: She blasted Obama for not supporting so-called “Born Alive” bills in the Illinois legislature in 2001, 2002 and 2003. They would have defined any aborted fetus that showed signs of life as a “born alive infant” due legal protection, even if doctors thought the fetus could not survive.
There is a quibble in Palin’s defense. The law that was active in Illinois while Obama was in office was not as strict as the one proposed. However, she’s making it sound like there was no protection for born alive fetus’ at all and he wanted to keep it that way. Obama’s stance was that the new law needed to be worded in a way to make sure it didn’t try to weaken Roe vs. Wade. So while there is an argument to be had between her position and his, she’s massively exaggerating when she paints his position as being radical.
She’s got nothing else to talk about, Craig.
Obama has always had the same problem Palin has, his record is so short he can’t claim to have a wealth of experience. However, he was knowlegable about so many subjects that he could always answer questions that people had and sound like he understood the problems. Then he’s make the argument that he had good judgement. She can’t answer questions, so she can’t talk about experience *or* judgement.
That leaves hot button issues. Abortion is actually how she got to be mayor of Wasilla. She made it a big part of her campaign, despite the fact that a small town mayor isn’t supposed to do anything that would actually affect abortion. By the time she got into office, she had people so worked up that the local newspaper referred to her as “Wasilla’s first Christian Mayor,” which really annoyed the mayors that came before her.
She’s got nothing else to talk about, Craig.
Obama has always had the same problem Palin has, his record is so short he can’t claim to have a wealth of experience. However, he was knowlegable about so many subjects that he could always answer questions that people had and sound like he understood the problems. Then he’s make the argument that he had good judgement. She can’t answer questions, so she can’t talk about experience *or* judgement.
That leaves hot button issues. Abortion is actually how she got to be mayor of Wasilla. She made it a big part of her campaign, despite the fact that a small town mayor isn’t supposed to do anything that would actually affect abortion. By the time she got into office, she had people so worked up that the local newspaper referred to her as “Wasilla’s first Christian Mayor,” which really annoyed the mayors that came before her.
Who’s fed on rednecks who’s not a redneck, to the degree blacks have been fed on by those who aren’t black? Who’s denied rednecks aren’t American? No presidential candidate ever had to face a campaign saying “he’s not one of us” based on his inability to pronounce the word nuclear.
Justification ain’t got nothin’ to do with experience. Dude just gave an account of his experience. I’d say chastising a guy for giving an account of his experience is more severe than stereotyping. It makes for the worst of the racism you think you’re challenging.
…are American…
…are American…
Sorry, Bill Myers, but I gotta stick with the words red neck.
I was in a bar in Perrysburg, Ohio, tonight. A bunch of red necks were talking about Obama, one calling him “Mr.Potato Head without the mustache”, and another saying he was like Curious George “with them great big monkey ears”. Much laughter followed.
A red neck, in my opinion, is not just somebody with a red coloring to the nape of their neck. They are bigots. They hate anything not like themselves. Their anger at the rest of the world is palpable. They thrive on bringing down anything or anybody they do not like.
And nearly all of them support the Republicancer Party.
Sorry, Bill Myers, but I gotta stick with the words red neck.
I was in a bar in Perrysburg, Ohio, tonight. A bunch of red necks were talking about Obama, one calling him “Mr.Potato Head without the mustache”, and another saying he was like Curious George “with them great big monkey ears”. Much laughter followed.
A red neck, in my opinion, is not just somebody with a red coloring to the nape of their neck. They are bigots. They hate anything not like themselves. Their anger at the rest of the world is palpable. They thrive on bringing down anything or anybody they do not like.
And nearly all of them support the Republicancer Party.
Seriously, try finding a black person who feels racism against blacks isn’t minimized by equating it with redneck stereotyping. I’d wager you’d need to start with blacks who make at least $½m a year.
Seriously, try finding a black person who feels racism against blacks isn’t minimized by equating it with redneck stereotyping. I’d wager you’d need to start with blacks who make at least $½m a year.
Alan Coil: “A red neck, in my opinion, is not just somebody with a red coloring to the nape of their neck. They are bigots. They hate anything not like themselves. Their anger at the rest of the world is palpable. They thrive on bringing down anything or anybody they do not like.”
Then simply describe them as bigots rather than stereotyping low-to-modest income residents of rural areas as “rednecks.” My grandfather fit that socioeconomic profile, yet he was a lifelong Roosevelt Democrat who detested racism. That’s why I detest the use of words like “redneck:” I believe we should judge people on their merits, or lack thereof, as individuals.
Alan Coil: “A red neck, in my opinion, is not just somebody with a red coloring to the nape of their neck. They are bigots. They hate anything not like themselves. Their anger at the rest of the world is palpable. They thrive on bringing down anything or anybody they do not like.”
Then simply describe them as bigots rather than stereotyping low-to-modest income residents of rural areas as “rednecks.” My grandfather fit that socioeconomic profile, yet he was a lifelong Roosevelt Democrat who detested racism. That’s why I detest the use of words like “redneck:” I believe we should judge people on their merits, or lack thereof, as individuals.
It’s not quite as simple as that, Bill. Where I’m from, there are a lot of people who proudly call themselves rednecks. It’s not as nuetral a term as “southerner”, but it is nowhere near the slur that the n-word is.
It’s not quite as simple as that, Bill. Where I’m from, there are a lot of people who proudly call themselves rednecks. It’s not as nuetral a term as “southerner”, but it is nowhere near the slur that the n-word is.
I’m not disagreeing with your reaction to what Alan said.
But George W Bush is yankee-born and educated, yet he campaigned to rednecks as one of them. What presidential salespitch do blacks get? None, because “playing the race card” will alienate whites. From Barack Obama’s opposition, it’s to question the black candidate is even an American at all.
Defending the portrayal of racism against blacks and the stereotyping of rednecks as comparable — where’s the merit in that? What virtue does that shelter?
I’m not disagreeing with your reaction to what Alan said.
But George W Bush is yankee-born and educated, yet he campaigned to rednecks as one of them. What presidential salespitch do blacks get? None, because “playing the race card” will alienate whites. From Barack Obama’s opposition, it’s to question the black candidate is even an American at all.
Defending the portrayal of racism against blacks and the stereotyping of rednecks as comparable — where’s the merit in that? What virtue does that shelter?
“…stereotyping low-to-modest income residents of rural areas as “rednecks.”
Been around a lot of low income people, many from rural areas. A buddy’s parents were obviously from the hills, but were normal as can be. My ex-in-laws are farmers from a rural are, yet are the epitome of good, hard working America. A buddy’s Mother-in-law is low income, not too bright (IMO), but I’ve never heard a red neck comment from her.
“…stereotyping low-to-modest income residents of rural areas as “rednecks.”
Been around a lot of low income people, many from rural areas. A buddy’s parents were obviously from the hills, but were normal as can be. My ex-in-laws are farmers from a rural are, yet are the epitome of good, hard working America. A buddy’s Mother-in-law is low income, not too bright (IMO), but I’ve never heard a red neck comment from her.
Jason M. Bryant: “It’s not quite as simple as that, Bill. Where I’m from, there are a lot of people who proudly call themselves rednecks. It’s not as nuetral a term as “southerner”, but it is nowhere near the slur that the n-word is.”
I never said it was, Jason. What I did was point out was that Alan Coil was advancing a stereotype. Some homosexuals refer to themselves as “queers.” Nevertheless, if someone were to react to something done by some homosexuals by saying “I am so sick of queers” any reasonable person would say that qualifies as stereotyping.
I believe that people should be judged on their merits as individuals. If you object to stereotypes about blacks then you should also object to stereotypes about white southerners. That was my point. Nothing more. Nothing less.
I’m not following anyone down this rabbit hole any further. I believe the idea that people should be judged as individuals is self-evident, and that’s my final word on this.
I’m not following anyone down this rabbit hole any further. I believe the idea that people should be judged as individuals is self-evident, and that’s my final word on this.
Actually, yeah, it seems obvious that you did.
Otherwise, why use use of the word “ņìggër” to make your point? Are there only 2 words to stereotype people with, or what?
Actually, yeah, it seems obvious that you did.
Otherwise, why use use of the word “ņìggër” to make your point? Are there only 2 words to stereotype people with, or what?
Bill Myers: I believe the idea that people should be judged as individuals is self-evident, and that’s my final word on this.
It is self evident and I don’t think anyone disagrees with you.
The problem is, how can you judge people as individuals if you don’t *describe* them? I can’t judge a smart person without saying that he is smart. I can’t judge an unqualified person without saying that he is unqualified. Nobody can judge anyone without using words to describe them.
‘Redneck’ is a word that describes some people. If someone says that all Southerners or all rural people are rednecks, that’s bad. But if someone says that one particular person is redneck and if that is an accurate assesment of how he’s acting, then it’s a fair way to describe him.
Trooper Wooten’s son asked him to taser him, they did it, and the kid thought it was cool and tried to get his dad to do it again. After the divorce, the judege had to tell the mother not to insult the father so much. Sorry, but it’s perfectly reasonable to say that Jeff Foxworthy should be telling this story.
Bill Myers: I believe the idea that people should be judged as individuals is self-evident, and that’s my final word on this.
It is self evident and I don’t think anyone disagrees with you.
The problem is, how can you judge people as individuals if you don’t *describe* them? I can’t judge a smart person without saying that he is smart. I can’t judge an unqualified person without saying that he is unqualified. Nobody can judge anyone without using words to describe them.
‘Redneck’ is a word that describes some people. If someone says that all Southerners or all rural people are rednecks, that’s bad. But if someone says that one particular person is redneck and if that is an accurate assesment of how he’s acting, then it’s a fair way to describe him.
Trooper Wooten’s son asked him to taser him, they did it, and the kid thought it was cool and tried to get his dad to do it again. After the divorce, the judege had to tell the mother not to insult the father so much. Sorry, but it’s perfectly reasonable to say that Jeff Foxworthy should be telling this story.
Zombies are hitting Israel.
Institute the Redeker Plan! Fast!
After the divorce, the judege had to tell the mother not to insult the father so much. Sorry, but it’s perfectly reasonable to say that Jeff Foxworthy should be telling this story.
Parents sniping at each other after divorce is hardly a “redneck” characteristic. In fact, I’m hard pressed to think of any group that doesn’t have this problem. The Shakers, I guess.
Disobeying the judge’s orders was the key point. She was told that getting her ex-husband fired would actually hurt her case for custody, but she kept trying anyway.
Disobeying the judge’s orders was the key point. She was told that getting her ex-husband fired would actually hurt her case for custody, but she kept trying anyway.
Ok so it’s disobeying judges orders that’s an identifying characteristic of rednecks? Just so we’re clear.
As part of the story of sabotaging the father’s career? Charles Kurault and Jesse Jackson had second families, and those chicks didn’t try to sabotage their careers.