I didn’t see the ending coming at ALL! Did you guys SEE what happened to Anakin? They put him in that whole black armor thing, and suddenly he sounded like Simba’s dad!
And–whoa! Twins! Padme had twins! Not crazy about the names she chose, but they’re not bad, I guess.
My question is…what now?! I mean, that’s how they END it? With so much left dangling? What happens to Yoda? And Obi Wan? And the kids? The bad guys just WIN in the end? What the hëll kind of ending is THAT? What a downer.
Has anyone heard if there’s gonna be a chapter 4? I’m dying to see what happens next!
Spoilers follow:
Okay, seriously…
THINGS I LIKED–Pacing was brisk. There were actual stray laugh lines that weren’t painful. The special effects, except for a few patchy moments during the lava flow battle, were superb and seamless. A number of dangling questions were dealt with (including the glaring “Why didn’t 3PO remember being built on Tattooine?) The lightsaber battles were outstanding, and some of the crosscutting sequences were deftly linked thematically (the birth of Darth Vader matching up with the birth of his children, for instance).
THINGS I LOVED–The scene where Palpatine, while watching that weird balloon glob opera, calmly and coolly seduces Anakin with the backstory of the Sith and the notion that Anakin might be able to save Padme if he just opens himself to the Dark Side. Not only did the chemistry between the two actors crackle, but I think it may well be the best dialogue scene in the entirety of the first three films. Plus I think we’re supposed to infer that Palpatine’s mentor was responsible for the creation of Anakin, which at least provides SOME kind of explanation. Love the John Williams score, interweaving new themes with the Empire March, Luke and Leia’s theme, etc. Also loved that Jar Jar didn’t speak. The visit to the planet of the Wookies, which Lucas ostensibly wanted to do since “Return of the Jedi,” but settled for half-sized Wookies called (spell it sideways and drop half the letters) Ewoks. Ewan McGregor convincingly aging into Alec Guiness. Anakin wearing an ensemble identical to what Luke was sporting in “ROTJ.” And, hey, now we’ve got a new fan gesture, taken from the Obi-Wan/Anakin battle: Jedi High Five, which consists of bringing your plams to within an inch of each other but not making contact no matter how hard you try. Also the cameo of a clearly young Grand Moff Tarkin.
THINGS THAT I DON’T BELIEVE: That Mace Windu is dead. I’m sorry, he’s the baddest bad-ášš there is. I don’t care that he was thrown halfway across the city. I think when he lands, he dusts himself off and says, “That all you got?” I also don’t believe the names of some of these characters. Darth Sidious. What’s his first name, “In?” General Grievous, as in Grievous Bodily Harm? C’mon. Certainly Lucas has had snarky names before, but at least he had the decency to put them into foreign languages (anyone for a serving of Mon Calamari?)
THINGS I HOWLED OVER: “It’s alive! It’s alive!” How in God’s name could Lucas have thought it a good idea to do an entire Frankenstein riff by having Darth Vader break his bonds on the operating table and lurch forward. I mean, it was hysterical. The lame spreading of arms and shouting, “Nooooo!’ was the capper on an inadvertently laughter-inducing sequence. With Vader believing that Padme had betrayed him, it might have been more effective for him to, upon learning of her demise, coldly saying, “Good.” Plus I was waiting for the legless, partly armless Anakin to shout after Obi-Wan, “Get back here! I’ll bite your kneecaps off, you pansy!”
THINGS I WAS ANNOYED OVER: No explanation of Leia’s remembering her mother or Luke looking around Dagobah and saying it seemed familiar. Granted, we can chalk it up to Force-induced dreams, but still… Also, it would have been cool to see how 3PO lost a leg and had to wear the silver replacement one he had in the subsequent films. Also…boy, the whole Jedi seeing-the-future thing is pretty freakin’ hit and miss. Seeing Jedi after Jedi caught by surprise by a massive conspiracy is a little like the psychic convention that was cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances. I know, I know, Yoda kept saying the force was cloudy, but sheesh.
THINGS I’D LIKE TO SEE NEXT: An entire film called the Adventures of Han Solo. Recast with a younger actor, obviously, but charting his early years and how he hooked up with Chewie.
PAD
• 
This movie made me giggle like a school girl & fall in love w/ star wars all over again.
“As I recall, R2D2 belonged to Anakin, not Obi-Wan…so when he said, I’ve never owned a droid…he wasn’t lying.”
…from a certain point of view… 🙂
In the funeral procession, there was a definite Padme-look-a-like (in all white robes and makeup, as i recall) in the procession.
I assumed that was the current queen of Naboo. Amidala was clearly very well-loved by her people, and certainly some of the royal advisors we’d seen were there. Sure, she wasn’t the same queen we saw in Episode II, but it’s not clear how much time has passed, so it’s entirely possible they’ve held an election.
I’m not ruling out the possibility, though — particularly since I’d spent the last 3 years assuming she was going to fake her death (and being thrown for a loop when she apparently did die). I’m definitely going to have to look more closely at the procession the next time.
Another take on the “Losing the will to live” reasoning behind Padme’s death:
SPOILER
No one here has mentioned the part where Anakin, upon being confronted on the lava world by Padme and Obi-Wan, determines they are conspiring against him and Force chokes her into unconciousness. I assumed when the line came up about her losing the will to live that Padme had been dealt a tremendous emotional (and possibly physically damaging) blow by Anakin’s actions, she did indeed just lose the desire to go on. The fight had finally left her body and mind.
Or maybe that Force choke was more damaging than anyone acknowledges.
For what it’s worth…
Tom Galloway says “Everyone’s shocked by the discovery at apparently around month 7 of Padme’s pregnancy that she’s carrying twins. Who are awfully large and fully developed relative to the size of her belly.”
That seems to be one of the biggest plotholes in the movie. Just how much time does pass from when Padme surprises Anakin that she’s pregnant and when she gives birth at the end?
Maybe babies have accelerated development in hyperspace?
Still, most of our questions were answered in one form or another.
Neil
>>That seems to be one of the biggest plotholes in the movie. Just how much time does pass from when Padme surprises Anakin that she’s pregnant and when she gives birth at the end?
I kind of figured that her expanding stomach was the way of tell us that this movie occured the space of months, not days.
Was Bail Organa alive when Alderan was blown up? Maybe Lea’s mother was sad because of something that happened to him. Also, why is she a princess? Was Bail king? Why does Lucas seem to regard monarchy as the ideal political system?
Oh, I don’t think Lucas is implying that monarchy is the ideal political system. Not only does he have characters making grand statements about the republic and democrary, but the monarchy depicted on Naboo differs greatly from what we might normally think of. The Queen of Naboo is apparently an elected office, after all, and Padme speaks of having served only two terms. I don’t know if the political system of Alderaan has ever been discussed (“canonically” or otherwise) but given the variations on monarchy Lucas has already given in the series, there’s no immediate reason to think Alderaan has a conventional monarchy.
Just my two cents
I based on the conversation in the “opera house” Either Palpatine or his former master is the one who impregnated Shmi. I personally would like to think it was Palpatine. This is a guy I never want to play chess with. He plots out his moves so far in advance and sets them up to fruition.
I think Anakin was created to trick the jedi into believing that a prophecy was fullfilled when it was just a ploy to instigate their demise. (it ultimately backfires since luke is born, but it is one hëll of a long range plan).
I like this specifically because it sets Anakin up as the penultamite tragic figure. No matter how much he may want to be a jedi, to make the right decisions he is doomed from the start. He was completely shafted by fate. He is never happy, nor can he be. Thus the fleeting moments of love are that much more important. The fact that he is doomed from the start is what makes him so tragic, so sad. And I think it’s the only interesting concept in the new prequels. This also sets up Palpatine not only as a father figure for Anakin, but an actual father, keeping everything in the family as is the case in the original trilogy.
But that’s just my interpritation based on my knowledge of star wars. I am not a big star wars fan; I hated ep1 only watched ep2 in fast forward, have been luke warm (no pun inteneded) towards the original trilogy since I turned thirteen, and I haven’t read any of the expanded canon (be it novels, video games, radio shows, christmas specials, or comic books).
Ali Kokmen wrote:
“Oh, I don’t think Lucas is implying that monarchy is the ideal political system. Not only does he have characters making grand statements about the republic and democrary, but the monarchy depicted on Naboo differs greatly from what we might normally think of. The Queen of Naboo is apparently an elected office, after all, and Padme speaks of having served only two terms. I don’t know if the political system of Alderaan has ever been discussed (“canonically” or otherwise) but given the variations on monarchy Lucas has already given in the series, there’s no immediate reason to think Alderaan has a conventional monarchy.”
I don’t think there was any real implication of a traditional monarchy. I’ve always took it as a cue from the British monarchy in its current form, where the royals often serve diplomatic roles. In the the case of Leia (and presumably Bail as well) it’s simply more formal, with them serving as ambassadors from Alderaan to the Republic.
“I kind of figured that her expanding stomach was the way of tell us that this movie occured the space of months, not days.”
I just didn’t notice her stomach expanding all that much and at the end, she just didn’t look all that large.
Still, Anakin’s seduction by the dark side makes a lot more sense if the events of the movie do take place over several months. Then he will have had a lot more contact with Palpatine, who will have had more chances to bend his thinking.
Neil
Was Bail Organa alive at the destruction of Alderan? In Leia’s original message to Ben she said “General Kenobi, years ago you fought with my father in the Clone Wars. Now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the Empire.” So that at least implies that he was alive, unless Leai was speaking figuratively, but he may not have been on Alderan when it was destroyed by the Death Star.
I think, realistically speaking, that the total absence of Leia’s adoptive parents from the subsequent two films would seem to indicate that they’re space dust.
PAD
Repeating myself from elsewhere on the intarnet…
Why Mace Windu is the second-dumbest character in Revenge of the Sith:
Mace, ya schmuck! When you’ve found out that the Big Evil Sith Lord Mastermind has been under your nose all this time and disguised as a high-powered government official, blurting out loud your plans to capture the guy right in front of his favorite Jedi (whose loyalties you’re already in doubt about) is a really stupid thing to do! Three points for telling Anakin to stay in the Jedi Council Chambers, but minus ten bazillion for opening your big yap in front of the kid. What if he had a microphone on him, for Pete’s sake?
What Mace should have done was this:
Mace: “Palpatine is the Sith Lord? Great work, Anakin! I’m going to recommend you for full Jedi Masterhood next week for this! Hey, you’ve been working hard, why don’t you go celebrate and unwind. Here, I’ve got a pair of tickets to the Outer Rim to see Eccentrica Gallumbits, the Triple-Breasted Whørë of Eroticon Six. The show’s in three hours, you can catch it if you take the next shuttle out — grab a friend and go have a great time, my treat!”
Anakin: “Thanks, Master Windu! I take back half the stuff I’ve ever said about you! Bye!”
Mace: “Stuff a few bills in her G-string for me!”
(pause)
“Is he gone? Great. Grab every Jedi we’ve got, w’re gonna go kick some Sith ášš. Don’t limit me to the three wusses we have who will fold up like a card table in the first ten seconds, I want everyone we’ve got for this! Hëll, grab a few of the brighter students, too — it won’t hurt to have some extra backup for this one. Maybe a sniper or three…”
And in case you’re wondering, Anakin Skywalker is the first-dumbest character in Revenge of the Sith:
Anakin, you’ve just found out that your pal Palpatine is secretly the Big Bad Evil Secret Dark Sith Lord everyone’s been looking for, and that he’s been lying to you the whole time about being a helpless innocent jovial little aw-shucks politician. Why the fark didn’t you immediately become suspicious about everything else he’s told you before?
Anakin: “My lord, I’ve betrayed my fellow Jedi and slaughtered my friends, just as you ordered. Will you now teach me the dark secrets of eternal life so I may save my hotchie mama?”
Palpatine: “‘Dark secrets of eternal life’? You believed that crazy-ášš bûllšhìŧ? Man, you’re more gullible than I thought! There’s no such secret, I was just jerking your chain around, ya idiot! Psyc!“
–R.J.
Robert Jung,
that was funny.
joe v.
One scene near the end that they needed should have been Obi-Wan after being shot at by the trojan horse clone troopers saying, “I guess that’s why that planet was hidden in the Jedi database. I had been meaning to follow up on that. Too late now.”
Neil
Mace, ya schmuck! When you’ve found out that the Big Evil Sith Lord Mastermind has been under your nose all this time and disguised as a high-powered government official, blurting out loud your plans to capture the guy right in front of his favorite Jedi (whose loyalties you’re already in doubt about) is a really stupid thing to do! Three points for telling Anakin to stay in the Jedi Council Chambers, but minus ten bazillion for opening your big yap in front of the kid. What if he had a microphone on him, for Pete’s sake?
What Mace should have done was this:>>
HAHA! I love it!
Personally, Windu should’ve instructed ANakin to go keep watch over Padame…. He just found out Palp is the darklord, she could be in danger, protect her!!
Okay. I stayed away from this thread until I’d actually seen the movie (I’ve been avoiding watching previews, even, I wanted as little revealed as possible). (My brother and father are coming in to town for my wedding this week, and we were considering seeing it for the first time together; otherwise, I probably would have seen it before Sunday evening, even.)
“Revenge of the Sith” was incredible.
Now, I am a pretty big Star Wars fan; the original trilogy was a large part of my formative years, “Empire” ultimately (and still) being my favorite. I enjoyed “Phantom Menace” when it first came out, though as time passed, flaws I recognized from the start became harder to ignore, and new flaws came to my attention. “Attack of the Clones” – my thought after seeing it for the first time was “THIS is the movie we waited sixteen years for.” (I’ve just edited out my reasons why, because this was just getting too long, but I still, while admitting a few weaknesses, greatly enjoy this movie, and feel it hasn’t gotten a completely fair shake because of “Phantom Menace” backlash.)
Now, “Revenge of the Sith” … wow.
I’m having a hard time getting my thoughts “on paper” here; this is the final Star Wars film. The end of – twenty eight years in all – a twenty four year experience for me, since first seeing “The Empire Strikes Back” in 1981. Between the weight of the movie itself, and that ending – one thought I’ve had which I’ve been aware of for a long time is wanting to live to see the final Star Wars movie – my mind was just … swimming, kind of overwhelmed after seeing this film.
Anyway, now that I’ve contextualized, let’s get to specifics 😉
I really felt that George Lucas returned to his filmmaking peak with this film (almost as though the other two films were just necessary to set up the main story he really wanted to tell, right here? Or maybe that he put even more effort into this one, knowing that it was the end.). Artoo got to be really cool, and comic relief at the same time …. I felt all of the actors were excellent. Natalie Portman – if the romance didn’t always completely work in “Clones” (one of those weaknesses I _will_ admit) – I thought she was completely on in this one. The early scenes between Padme and Anakin I thought really worked. Ian McDormiad was great, of course – very sinsiter. I didn’t totally like his change in appearance – I always had just figured that the Emperor was very old by “Jedi”, holding on by the power of the dark side. This is an interesting twist, I suppose, but the makeup occasionally bugged me (and sometimes his voice seemed a bit off; but I think Palpatine was a bit derranged – as opposed to the totally sane evil he had been – by the results of the attack). Christensen did bring the right level of tragedy and darkness to the role; he also presented clearly form the start that Anakin was more seasoned and mature than he had been in “Attack of the Clones”. And Ewan McGregor – yes, he has become an outstanding Obi Wan (even as we learn, more and more, that Obi Wan wasn’t as outstanding as “A New Hope” might have lead us to believe). I loved the moment at Padme’s apartment – I can’t recall the exact line – when he seems near tears while telling her of Anakin’s fall. He brought powerful emotion to his role.
We got the battles we expected – Obi Wan vs. Anakin/Vader, Anakin vs. Dooku, Mace Windu’s big death (?) – okay, the ambiguity of that was another surprise. And Yoda vs. the Emperor – ! I never expected that. It would take a long time to describe eveything I liked (and I need more viewings to more fully absorb everything). To address some specific issues which have come up here:
I like how it was implied, without ever being spelled out, that Palpatine was the apprentice to the great Sith of his fable ….
Vader as Frankenstein: did bug me a bit for a second, but since the entire series is supposed to be a tribute to matinee movies of old, it made sense in a tribute kind of way (and maybe makes even more sense in light of the Hammer Films connection mentioned above). And it is logical, storywise, that using his new legs for the first time could be awkward (though it could have been done less Frankenstein-esque if Lucas had wanted). (Loved the – Force of his anger, so to speak – crushing the walls.) And I’m part of the camp that liked his first lines. It was a bit of a surprise, initially; but it makes sense that Padme’s death, at least partially (and completely, as far as he knew) by his own actions, would be the final, final nail in Anakin’s coffin (yes, until the end of “Jedi”). Her loss causes Anakin Skywalker to completely die away, giving rise to the Darth Vader we will see in Episode IV and on. And, I enjoy hearing James Earl Jones’ voice saying those words. It connects a final circuit in my mind somehow, I think, helping me – well, grok what I already know intellectually – that the Anakin Skywalker we’ve come to know in this prequel trilogy became our Darth Vader.
So many of the Jedi dying by blasters in the back was another surprise – another good one. Palatine manipulating things so that the Jedi GET the Clone Army suddenly makes complete sense. And it’s not like Anakin/Vader could’ve slaughtered them _all_ himself (well, if nothing else, would’ve taken a LONG while). (At some point in the three years between films, I was thinking about Yoda’s kid class there: Is Anakin gonna slaughter the _kids_? Well … yeah.)
A couple of little disappointments:
Not enough Wookies! Not nearly enough Chewbacca! A glorified cameo, really; at least he did help Yoda to escape the slaughter. Hopefully, some lost scenes on the DVD? And, while I didn’t expect it, would’ve loved more Lord Vader, in full armor and Jones-voiceness …. (And, they couldn’t ask Threepio if he would get his mind wiped? Just DOING it to him seems cruel and dismissive.)
The question of what order new viewers should watch Star Wars in is an interesting one. You do lose many of the big surprise in IV – VI by watching I – III first. It did lead me to think, though – what surprises did we lose, by seeing IV – VI first? If someone could watch the prequels without knowing what Anakin’s fate will be …. I suppose Vader would seem more tragic in IV – VI, then (though I myself am happier about Vader’s turning at the end of “Jedi” than I used to be, beccause of the prequels). And the other characters – if later viewers could see the episodes from I on without knowing if, say, Obi Wan will live …. The characters may just be too out in the open for anyone to actually be able to start with such a clean slate; but, in theory, a whole different set of surprise and mysteries would be set up for someone seeing Star Wars for the first time in I – VI order.
ANYWAY … I was not disappointed; a film worthy of concluding this most significant movie saga.
I loved seeing Padme–nine months pregnant with TWINS–briskly run down a gang-plank to greet Anakin. Also the fact that this “advanced” society apparently had provided no prenatal care to clue her in on the double-loaf she was carrying in the oven.
Yeah, well, a nice excuse, but according to Mark Hamill, Lucas at the time of filming said they were supposed to have serious heft, like broadswords (tying in with the concept of Jedi KNIGHTS, I suppose.) Mark was envious of the fight sequences in “Phantom Menace” because they were whipping those swords around like katana, which is the direction he wanted to go in “Empire.”
Just a sword nitpick: European “broadswords” (an anachronistic term, BTW) have no more heft than a Japanese katana. Often less. A European “hand-and-a-half” longsword would run between 2.5 and 3.5 pounds. You will rarely find a sword over 4 lbs except true two-handers, which got up to about 8 lbs. Katana average about 3 pounds.
And in most styles of Japanese sword-arts, katana are weilded primarily with BOTH hands except when being drawn. That’s why the hilts are so long.
Also, the European bášŧárd sword (hand-and-a-half, boradsword) was balanced more for the swing, in order to penetrate plate armor. The katana is balanced more toward the hilt, enabling more artistic swings and penetration of laquer armor. That’s why the hilts are so long…
Just some thoughts from me. Overall I liked the movie but only as a “suspend logic” type of evening watching great effects and getting into the whole “modern epic” thing.
Other issues with this supposedly great movie:
1. Soppy start.
2. Hayden Christensen: Either he is an awesome actor and can play the part in a manner reminiscent of a log of wood as well as Mark Hamill played Luke (hereditary woody anyone?) or he just can’t act. My money is on the latter.
3. Jedi Knights. For an elite force these guys are , well, crap. Unless you are Obi Wan Kenobi (OWK), Anakin, Luke or Yoda forget it, 2 guys with laser pistols getting told to implement order 66 will overcome you. Not at all like
OWK leaping into the midst of thousands or Anakin doing his bit. Sorry George, slight consistency problem there.
4. Ewan McGregor. Was he taking the piss or what? OWK as a Lord Flash / Ace Rimmer variant? What a complete crackup.
5. The Lava scene – OH COME ON! OWK is now officially responsible for everything that goes wrong. Plus we know that light sabres are pissweak weapons because they cauterise everything so cutting off 2 legs and an arm leaves the victim alive and well for a significant period of time and able to think and
comprehend. Hmm, great weapons technology that. Unless you hit a vital point then your oppoent lives. Awesome.
6. The Anakin/Darth metamorphosis. Let me get this right – for the love of a woman Anakin throws everything away to save her. Fair enough, not really plausible from the chosen one but still, a fair concept. So why, when she dies
anyway (and apparently it’s his fault), does he continue going Darth anyway?
Such strong love and no penitance or grovelling for forgiveness after killing the emperor/Sith Lord who told him everything would be fine only for it not to be?
7. And if he gets these premonitions why doesn’t her get one about his own future? Or is “the farce” there simply to really, really encourage Jedi to the Dark Side? Has any Jedi EVER interpreted a dream sequence/premonition correctly? What a wonderful power to have “here’s a view of the future, bet you guess wrong!”. Who gives these Jedi this stuff, if it’s a God concept that’s a God I could do without. If it’s just “the farce” then Darwinian logic clearly shows it is trying to wipe itself out because it does a dámņ fine job of it.
8. The Yoda “I will teach you how to project yourself back from the grave if you learn from me in a Tunisian desert” bit. Come on, exactly how useful have those Jedi been anyway? Seems to me that the only reason the Jedi exist is
because they are so pissweak that they produce so-so warriors to be converted to the dark side and made really strong. I’m thinking – “take the Dark Path, there is no downside. Become as powerful as you want, do what you want, and because you’re so freaking smart you can rule benignly anyway”. AS opposed to the Republic which gets ruled by a nutter.
9. Story in general: Greivous – what a cockamamy story. And a pissweak resolution. Same for Dooku (could you take a bad guy with a name like that
seriously – me either).
10. Birth/Death scene: Um, yeah, right. Orgnana just picks up the girl child and says – spoilt princess school for you. OWK and Yoda decide to head off to a desert. And somehow NOT telling these kids who and what they are is supposed
to prepare them for the real world/galaxy. Um, OK, no wonder those Jedi got shafted, they lie even to the ones who are supposed to save the universe.
11. OWK aging. I give him an age of about 25-30 in Sith. Move forward to Star Wars A New Hope (soon to be retitled Star Wars – The Franchise that Doesn’t Deliver and Isn’t Free)and OWK is about 65. Which should make Luke 35-40. Heck, make allowances for OWK running around in the Tunisian Desert without sunblock preventing him getting prematurely wrinkly and call him 55-60. Luke should still be about 30. All that trouble they had taking Anakin at age 5 or whatever he was? Doesn’t that multiply across a bit to Luke?
No. Apparently not. Or OWK just doesn’t learn from his Master’s mistakes.
Somehow he goes from not really knowing Ben to being a full master class Jedi Knight (he can do stuff those other masters couldn’t do to counter order 66 remember) in about 3 months at an age where he should be wondering about hair
loss, thinking it might just be time to leave home and what was all that stuff about going to the Academy. Does the modern Tatooine Gap Year extend for about 12 Standard years?
12) Emperoror vs Mace – use the capsicum spray, Mace isn’t working. So much for yet another Jedi master accompanied by 2 of his mates. And how did that massive disturbance in the force go unnoticed for so long?
I know George had to wrap it all up nicely and storylines were never his strong thing but really, is this the best he can do? A HUGE improvement over the last 2 episodes but, as per usual, saved only by the special effects (and thank god for no product placement!).
Rob
Also, the European bášŧárd sword (hand-and-a-half, boradsword) was balanced more for the swing, in order to penetrate plate armor. The katana is balanced more toward the hilt, enabling more artistic swings and penetration of laquer armor. That’s why the hilts are so long…
Neither sword was intended to penetrate plate armor, and the fallacy that the Japanese used “lacquer” armor seems to have originated with D&D. A feudal Japanese o-yoroi, made of overlapping iron plates, was darn sturdy, and later plate armor was every bit as resistant to sword-cuts as anything short of a full European jousting harnass. The only sword that would penetrate plate armour would be a tuck or escoc, which is basically a big ice-pick.
As for the balance, while the two styles of swords differ in their “feel”, it isn’t as simple as saying the Japanese swords were balanced more towards the hilt. The Japanese didn’t use heavy pommels to counterbalance the blade. Moreover, their was a great deal of variation in balance-point in BOTH sword designs, depending on the style of blade, period of construction, etc. I don’t have my swords in front of me, but I have a Euro-style Type XIV with a point-of-ballance at about 2″ from the cross, and a katana with a POB about 4.5″ from the tsuba, and BOTH are well balanced for their particular style of sword.
Katana average about 3 pounds.
Never one to let even myself get away with an error, katana average more like 2-2.5 lbs. A 3 lb katana would be on on the big side, though they exist even bigger.
I think I know the story behind 3P0’s silver leg in the original trilogy:
Some time between episodes III and IV, his lower-leg is replaced with a silver bail (no relation to Senator Organa), which forms part of a wicket (no relation to the Ewok), which in turn can be used as a key to unlock a quarantined planet.
It all fits together nicely.
“Bill, there can be more then two sith at a time, there just can’t be more than two dark lords.”
“Is this right? Because my recollection of the conversation between Mace Windu and Yoda at the end of Ep 1 had Mace confirming that the assassin they killed–Darth Maul–was a Sith. Then Yoda says they have to keep an eye out for the other one, for there are always 2 Sith, no more and no less, one master and one apprentice. Then Mace muses about which one Maul was, the apprentice or the master. (Then we cut to a bunch of folks standing at Qui-Gon’s byre, and the camera pans across to finally rest on Palpatine. Which caused some fans in the know to go “oooh!”, and some clever non-fan movie-goers to figure out that Palpatine was a more sinister guy than he appears.) “
I know this has already been explained to some degree but I thought I’d give a little clarity to the subject of the Sith.
The Sith were originaly a race far different from any humans or known creatures. Their teachings rivaled that of the jedi knights to the extent that the were exterminated n the resulting war.
Shortly after this when jedi were expelled from the order they began to study the ways of the sith and formed a new alliance with the dark side of the force. the rules of the Sith dictate that when a master can be defeated by their apprentice by any means necessary the apprentice has completed his training. However problems arose when this concept grew to mean that sith masters would conspire with and against other sith msaters for more power, for as we know, to he that has power more power is needed. The result was the near total annihillation of the Sith.
From this was birthed the Rule and ancient secret to the survival of the sith, “One Master, One apprentice.” this was well over four thousand years before the star wars saga began
this is how the jedi knew that the would be only one master and one apprentice
Just remembered one thing that disappointed me a bit. The final light saber fight between Obi and Darth was awesome…but there was one thing missing. From looking at the way cool action figures (ok, dolls) they released right before the movie, they made it appear as though the combatants were using the force to actually hurl lava at each other while fighting. Which would have been extremely neat and I’m surprised Lucas didn’t think of it himself.
Regarding Palpatine & Mace Windu:
Assuming Palpatine was a sith before a senator, has he been concealing his grotesque appearance all this time and is this his natural state? The temptation is there to believe Windu disfigured him in the fight, as in several reviews I read. Palpatine is only testing Anakin, right? And could destroy Windu as easily as the others? Or does he truly lose his light saber accidently, weakened by Windu. I am assuming he is only hamming it up for Anakin’s sake, look how helpless I am and your Jedi pal is still going to murder me, they really are trying to take over and etc. And then later in the Senate his “injury” gains him sympathy. Pretty clever.
I agree with the above; Windu should have showed up to save Yoda. Throw open the door to the Senate all bloodied and light up his saber. Good idea! Suppose it might weaken Yoda’s character, he didn’t exactly lose that fight, seemed like a draw. Wimpy for him to run away and leave it to Windu, but since Yoda is on the run from that point on anyway I can’t see the harm. Maybe Windu could have scarred Palpatine up before he got his, run a light saber down his side or something. An injury we wouldn’t have noticed later.
On ghosts:
I also sorta would have liked to see Obi-Wan stumble into his Tatooine shanty after handing off baby Luke and a bunch of Jedi ghosts hanging in there, ready to start scheming. Kind of a silent dissolving scene, and THEN the final double-sun fadeout. Qui-gon was the first to figure this out, come on? We should have seen him in this movie then. I do like the idea that the Jedi are still learning though, as if they got stagnant & steeped in old religion, and kind of blinded BUT are figuring it out slowly. New skills like returning as a ghost would emphasize this, there is more to being a Jedi than they thought. It fits with Luke learning to balance being a Jedi with having relationships, love for his father, sister, and later on a wife and family I would assume. Jedi adaptation. What’s the deal, the force never ran in a family before? I guess not, since the Jedi don’t reproduce.
Anyway, food for thought. I’ve been thinking on this far too much!
I haven’t seen the movie but I’ve read the novelization and what I came away with regarding the Windu/Palpatine duel (and especially where it concerns Palp’s face) was that it was basically the dark side of the Force eating him from the inside out.
Which is probably a bit more philosophical than Lucas would ever want to get but that’s how I read it.
Literally.
And it holds up quite well if you think about what Anakin Skywalker looked like in the original footage of Return Of The Jedi as Luke takes off his mask.
He looks like a decrepit old man, even though he should be 40ish (no more than 50).
Just my two cents on the cosmetics of Palpatine.
–Chris
One thing that bugs me about the new prequels:
There’s a line in one of the three prequels that’s says.. and I’m not getting the exact words here …..that evil depends on your “point of view”..I just have to disagree with that one.
What I didn’t like about the prequels is that Darth Vader is made to look like someone we feel sorry for. The guy may have been thru some horrific life events; but it doesn’t excuse him from wiping out entire worlds…
However it’s only a movie….
It makes you wonder when Lucas says there are going to be no more Star Wars films. I don’t believe it for a minute. If you have a cash cow, Lucasfilm will keep milking it.
There is a TV show planned and I hope it’s done with the same style and care the Young Indiana Jones series had. If I remember they had 10 or so episodes a year and from what I remember the episodes were better written than most of the action/adventure shows on TV and cable at the time. I don’t remember what network it was on though…
The release of the this film makes me wonder about the recent comments made about Star Trek by Orson Scott Card. I did meet him in person in Borders and his comments really surprise me. If it wasn’t for reading the Star Trek and Star Wars books; I would have never read Heinlien, Assimov, Bradbury and the list is endless.
One of the first novels I read as a child was “Spock must Die” by James Blish. It was about a tranporter double accident with Spock. After reading many of the Trek books I purchased a paperback collection of H.G. Wells original novels like War of the Worlds, Food of the Gods, Invisible Man. I read them all when I was ten years old and still enjoy them.
A couple of things…
Why did Yoda run? Why didn’t he come back with Obi-Wan? Probably because of the squads of clones that were undoubtedly on the way. Once Yoda made his presence known, he had a very slim window of opportunity to take Palpatine out before he was overwhelmed by sheer numbers. And two versus a planet is not much better than one versus a planet. They had no choice but to wait for an opportunity.
Over the last couple of movies, I’ve been wondering something. (And I know this is going to show just how much of a geek I am) Has anybody else noticed that Lucas just can’t seem to pass up an opportunity to piss all over expanded universe continuity? “Jedi can’t get married.” Since when? “There’s never been a non-master on the council.” What about Ki Adi Mundi over there? And he’s married, too. To, like, three women. *shrug* Just a minor gripe, I guess, from someone who likes a lot of the EU literature more than eps I & II…
-Rex Hondo-
Most unintentionally funny line of the film:
Obi-Wan: “Only a Sith would speak in absolutes!”
Yep, only a Sith. No one else ever speaks in absolutes.
So, by virtue of saying that line, isn’t Obi-Wan a Sith?
Most clunkily phrased line of the film:
Anakin: “From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!”
After Anakin said that, I felt like he and Obi-Wan would say “Let’s agree… to disagree!” and step out to tea together. Even “From where I’m standing” would have been less clunky than the awkward “From my point of view”.
Most amazing use of a light saber:
Obi-Wan cutting off three of Anakin’s limbs in a single blow. (Which, at least, minimized the aforementioned “Black Knight” quality of the scene, by reducing the time that Anakin spent fighting limbless.)
Most confusing billing:
Ahmed Best gets around eighth billing for playing the stand-in for CGI Jar Jar in three scenes. He gets higher billing than Anthony Daniels and Kenny Baker.
Seriously, though, nitpicks aside, it was a great film, and I even prefer it over some of the original trilogy. I think “Sith” was better plotted than most of the original, but it does lack a bit in acting and dialogue.
I also like the amibiguity left. For example:
Was Palpatine the student who killed Plagueis?
Did Plagueis create Anakin? If not, did Palpatine?
Could the Sith really lengthen people’s lives? Is that how Anakin lasted so long on the planet: by intervention from Palpatine? If they can do this, just how old is Palpatine?
Did the battle with Mace really disfigure Palpatine, or did he simply allow his true form to be revealed to gain sympathy from Anakin and the Senate? (It seemed like he may have had the makeup on under the hood as Sidious beforehand.)
Some of these are already answered by the expanded universe (yes, Plagueis trained Sidious), but I love the fact that not everything was spelled out. It treats the audience as smart enough to put things together, and it leaves some of the film open for interpretation.
There are a few questions that do bug me though:
Why did they wipe Threepio’s memory? (Other than the obvious plot reasons involving Episode IV.)
How did Qui-Gon figure out the secret of immortality after he died? And who told Anakin how to do it? If it’s simply the being pure of heart thing (as deleted scenes state), why aren’t there hundreds of undead Jedi floating around? And why does Anakin get to go back to his 20’s in ghost form, whereas everyone else is old and wrinkled? (Okay, that’s really more of a RotJ DVD edition question.)
Setting these aside, still a great film.
Why did they wipe Threepio’s memory?
Because Threepio can’t shut up to save his golden skin and they want Leia’s true parentage to actually remain a secret.
-Rex Hondo-
“LUKE: Leia… do you remember your mother? Your
real mother?
LEIA: Just a little bit. She died when I was very
young.
Sooooo…no. That one isn’t flying.
Although it should be noted that Luke has no memory of his mother. So maybe Leia specializes in remembering the past, whereas Luke–who foresees the danger in the Cloud City–specializes in the future.
PAD”
So it’s a bit cagey, but this is Lucas we’re talking about here: it’s entirely possible she DOES remember, thanks to Force-plot-device-induced memories.
Interesting thought as well that actually supports this: At NO point is Luke Skywalker ever given any reason to think that Darth Vader can turn from evil. They’ve only “met” three times: when he infiltrated Vader’s giant death machine where Vader was torturing the heroine, and Luke got a glimpse of Vader cutting down the old man he’d come to love (and oh yes, earlier in the day he’d ORDERED THE DEATH OF HIS ADOPTED PARENTS); the Death Star Trench, where there’s no evidence Darth is any good; and the Bespin battle, where Vader tortured the hëll out of Luke’s friends just to get Luke’s ATTENTION, then maimed him and mentally scarred him so badly that Luke chose to die rather than go on living alongside him.
Yet he utterly, completely believes he can be brought back. “There’s still good in him.” A fairly ridiculous thing for Luke to say …
… unless you consider that just maybe, he can remember the very first words that were spoken in his presence.
Paul F. P. Pogue
“There was one scene, a fight scene early in the movie, where I was surprised that there was no music. Other than that, I really enjoyed how John Williams used so many of the themes throughout.”
Interestingly enough, if you go back through the original trilogy, there’s almost no music at all during the lightsaber battles. Just the saber sound effect. It’s one of the reasons the choir music when Luke calls on the Dark Side while fighting Vader in Jedi is so powerful: we’re really not accustomed to Lightsaber Music.
All that went out the window with “Duel of the Fates,” but still.
It makes you wonder when Lucas says there are going to be no more Star Wars films. I don’t believe it for a minute. If you have a cash cow, Lucasfilm will keep milking it.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: in defense of Lucas, he doesn’t just horde his bucketloads of money and lord it over everyone else. Instead, he actively invests his money back into the cinema, raising the moviemaking arts for everybody.
People love to gripe about the hordes of Star Wars toys and kids’ meal tie-ins, but nobody ever says they wished Skywalker Sound, THX Audio, Industrial Light & Magic, computer animation in general (and Pixar Animation Studios in particular), digital movie projection, the National Film Preservation Board, or the various other companies and groups George Lucas threw his clout behind would all go away and/or never existed.
Yeah, Jar-Jar Binks was an annoying character, but if that’s the price we pay for all the other benefits George Lucas helped give to the entire field of cinema, I for one will gladly cut the guy some slack.
–R.J.
1And why does Anakin get to go back to his 20’s in ghost form, whereas everyone else is old and wrinkled? (Okay, that’s really more of a RotJ DVD edition question.)
Setting these aside, still a great film.
Ah-ha! That was explained in an interview by Lucas (on AOL). Anakin reverted back to his twenties because it was just before he was “TAINTED” by the dark side of the force. He was pure and on the light side.
Yet he utterly, completely believes he can be brought back. “There’s still good in him.” A fairly ridiculous thing for Luke to say …
… unless you consider that just maybe, he can remember the very first words that were spoken in his presence.>>>
That didn’t bother me too much. Luke was a Jedi and he simply sensed the Good and Evil within Darth battling each other. “Your thoughts betray you father.” He said this in episode 5 or 6, I don’t remember.
Episode three was an excellent movie. I’m still bummed out about Mace’s fate. I personally think Mace scarred Palp when he was deflecting the electricity. How did he know Anakin would return? The man can’t see the future. Remember, Anakin walked in the middle of the battle, Mace was already on the verge of killing the man. Palp is using that much power and it’s being deflected back at him with Mace’s light saber… of course it’s going to scar him! And he had to be using a lot of power because Mace was exerting a lot of effort deflecting the emp’s lightning
R.J.,
Good points. Sure there is a ton of Star Wars marketing out there, but a lot of it is fun. All the money they he’s making here should be going to help make the tv series possible and let him produce the full first season before airing the first episode.
Neil
…”The Lava scene – OH COME ON! OWK is now officially responsible for everything that goes wrong. Plus we know that light sabres are pissweak weapons because they cauterise everything so cutting off 2 legs and an arm leaves the victim alive and well for a significant period of time and able to think and
comprehend”…
If you recall, anakin was burning when OWK left him, so he assumed the lava would just finish him off.
…”The Anakin/Darth metamorphosis. Let me get this right – for the love of a woman Anakin throws everything away to save her. Fair enough, not really plausible from the chosen one but still, a fair concept. So why, when she dies
anyway (and apparently it’s his fault), does he continue going Darth anyway?
Such strong love and no penitance or grovelling for forgiveness after killing the emperor/Sith Lord who told him everything would be fine only for it not to be?”…
Vader crossed the point of no return. the jedi were destroyed & Padme was dead. he really had nothing left except his anger & hate. he had nowhere to go. it actually makes perfect sense for him to remain w/ the emperor.
Like the original Star Trek TV show the Star Wars prequels were badly written. One day in the future SW is gonna be public domain- I hope someone with creative talent re-write the whole Saga and have Jar-Jar killed within the first ten minutes of Episode I. Hmmm…after 28 years I’m still bitter about the whole dámņ thing. Only if Lucas left it alone fan I would be.
Gee, even after six years, people pìššìņg and moaning about Jar Jar just don’t get old…
But I digress…
The more I think about it, the more I realize that General Grievous was every inch the serial villain, precisely in the vein of the types of movies Lucas has been paying homage to all along. Heck, with the cloak, armor, walk and accent, he’s like a cross between Dracula and Dr. Doom. The daring escapes every time he realizes he’s outmatched, pure crunchy serial goodness.
Of course, I know it’s a minor thing, but I also noticed that the death of Grievous pretty much exactly marks the end of the “fun” part of the movie. Most everything from that point is fairly dámņ depressing.
-Rex Hondo-
Regarding the question as to why Leia held the title of princess: Bail was a prince-consort. His wife was Queen of Alderaan.
And I think Bail wasn’t in Alderaan when Moff Tarkin blew up the planet. Wasn’t he one of the rebels who welcomed Leia and company in the secret base in Yavin’s moon after their escape from the Death Star? I’m not sure about it, but I think she called him Father. I hope someone clarifies this as a friend of mine borrowed my DVDs and I have know way of confirming it till I get them back.
I like the way the movie focused on Padme’s still-pregnant-looking belly during her funeral. Kind of explains why the Sith never knew that she actually gave birth.
But the movie still doesn’t explain why they let Luke use his father’s surname. I mean, the Jedi and the Lars were supposed to hide him from Vader, weren’t they? Why didn’t just call him Luke Lars or something?
Actually, the old man that greets Leia on Yavin Base was General Dodonna. I’m fairly sure that it’s been established (at least in EU lit) that Bail Organa was at home when Alderaan got vaped.
As to why they let Luke use the Skywalker name… um… Nope, I got nothing…
-Rex Hondo, Font of Useless Knowledge-
There was one thing that I thought was wierd. In Ep. IV, when Darth and OWK are mixing it up Darth says “when I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the Master.” In ep. VI, though, he is supposedly Obi’s equal, and Obi wan calls him “Brother” several times. Is this all because Anakin wasn’t made a master? I mean, does he even remember all this twenty years and innumerable victories later? oooooor am I missing the point and this is a continuity error?
I assume you mean episode III instead of VI. Well, being brothers doesn’t necessarily equate to being equal. However many victories Vader had over the years, there was one Jedi he had not been able to beat, and so long as that one Jedi remained, he could never truly believe in himself as the STRONGEST (dark) Jedi. Also, there had to be a certain element of hate at the man who had, in dooming him to a life of cybernetic monstrosity, curtailed his growth in Force power.
-Rex Hondo-
>I’m glad I’m not the only person who remembers “Commander Cody and the Lost Planet Airmen”!
Only … for some bizarre reason no one ever explained, the [guy with the rocket pack] character’s name is Commando Cody. Not ‘Commander’. Just finished rewatching RADAR MEN FROM THE MOON “introducing a new character: Commando Cody”, so …
>I thought Anakin accepted his Vaderization a little too readily. Only seconds after his horrified “what have I done?” following the death of Mace Windu, Anakin basically shrugs and says “O.K.” to becoming a Sith lord.
That was the weak point in the film for me as well. Which, since it is a major turning point (no pun intended), is rather unfortunate. Seeing Sidious trying to kill a disarmed [again, no pun intended] Mace, Annakin could have chopped the former’s hands off to remove his lightning threat and then taken him in – prisoner, but still alive.
> Since the radio dramas are considered to be canon..
And, in the first one, Obi-Wan specifically states that there ARE other Jedi still alive in the galaxy – just that they can’t be counted on for support in the coming battle. Which gives one hope that Mace Windu is indeed still alive but, as with Yoda, in seclusion somewhere. After all, if Obi-Wan can survive that thousand-foot fall into the water, why couldn’t Windu similarly fall into a swimming pool or use the Force to grab a passing flyer?
> 3. Jedi Knights. For an elite force these guys are , well, crap. Unless you are Obi Wan Kenobi (OWK), Anakin, Luke or Yoda forget it, 2 guys with laser pistols getting told to implement order 66 will overcome you. Sorry George, slight consistency problem there.
Not necessarily. They were expecting the threats to come from out in front and were concentrating their senses there, not on their allies behind them. And even if they had, you don’t survive long when you’re surrounded and have no one to watch your back.
> Of course, I know it’s a minor thing, but I also noticed that the death of Grievous pretty much exactly marks the end of the “fun” part of the movie.
Yup. Wonderful line on Obi-Wan’s part as he tosses the blaster: “How uncivilized…”
Wow, this thread’s still alive, if on life support…
Just thought I’d jump in on the other side of the “Anakin turned too quickly” issue. I think people are forgetting that he’d been leaning toward the dark side for years, and occasionally stepping pretty far over the line. Sand People massacre anyone? Also, Palpatine had been subtly working on him for years. Anakin chose his side when he chopped off Mace’s hand. If anything, the “What’ve I done!?” was the abberation, not how “quickly” he turned. At that point, he figured there was no going back. Plus, I’d be willing to bet that there was more than a little Force manipulation going on as well.
-Rex Hondo-
episode 4 came out in 1977…
episode 5 in 1980, and episode 6 in 1983…
I have one problem… Only two sith allowed ever? Personally I don’t like the logic behind that. Are we to believe that of all the Jedi, younglings, and any others with the “Force” yet discovered can’t go to the dark side on thier own? Sorry Jedi Anakin, you can’t turn evil today Count Dooku is still alive, and so is Sideous. Please leave a message after the beep.
I can understand the chaotic nature of the dark side making it near impossible to be organized beyond a Master-student level… every one would be killing each other to gain power, but why can’t there be numerous “cells” of Sith? Is there some universal law that stops those with the force from “expressing” evil tendancies until their is a “job posting” for a new Darth? : ) Maybe yearning to learn the dark side draws you to the current memebers, and then the nature of the evil takes its course and someone dies.. who knows. But it is a BIG galaxy and two is a small number.
I thought the movie was ok… the best of the prequels, and it did cause me to watch Ep iv – vi as well as attack of the clones again when I got home.
other than above some problems I had…
1. The original death star constuction started when Luke was born, but it is not really operational(or at least used/know about) until ep iv, about 20 years later.. Then when it is destroyed they build a massive replacement (granted only about 60% complete) in the next 5 years or so.. Maybe they learned how to build them better… or didn’t have to build it in secrecy.. but I thought that was a bit of a timing flaw.
2. Didn’t like the fact that the whole clone army order by master Siphadeous, and planet missing from the archive etc, is not really ever questioned by the Jedi council…. they somewhat raise an eyebrow and then decide it is ok to fight right beside these guys. Also Siphadeous’s death, disappearance is never explained. Things like this and what others have said make it easy to understand why the Jedi were taken out.. they kind of suck.
3. As everyone has said Obi-wan delivers the twins but seems to forget this in the future films. Also, Obi-wan comes across as somewhat of a moron in these early films. He’s supposed to be a top gun, but I am not impressed.
4. Yoda is still very capable in the first three movies and is several hundred years old… he certainly ages a lot in the next 20 – 30 years on dagoba when he “dies” of natural causes.(which is a extremly small percentage of his life) Granted he does his “turn into a jedi ghost trick”, but suprised he became old so fast. Or did he leave on purpose to pass the torch to Luke? When 900 years old you become, will to live subsides it does.
5. All the villans in the prequels suck. They are basically guys with a light saber. Other than the emperor you really don’t give a crap about any of them, and the characters aren’t developed at all. Darth Maul could have been a cool character… but all he did was show up and fight.
6. Lastly the dialog was bad, and Anakin’s ultimate turn to the darkside too easy. (or maybe the dialog just lacking) It should have been more of a trap that left Anakin no option but to turn. I think that was the attempt, but for me it failed.
Re: Death Star II: construction could have begun at some point it was apparant that the design was viable…say, 10 years into constructing DS1…which probably took 10 years because of some minor attempt to unionize by the workers, which had to be “put down,” and replacements trained…or cloned…