Since the Farpoint thread is quickly being hijacked by discussion the announced or pending cancellation of “Angel” and “Enterprise,” please continue all discussion about that topic over here. Thanx.
PAD
Since the Farpoint thread is quickly being hijacked by discussion the announced or pending cancellation of “Angel” and “Enterprise,” please continue all discussion about that topic over here. Thanx.
PAD
• 
I really hope UPN or someone picks up ANGEL. It deserves to go 7 seasons!!
And I hope Enterprise doesn’t get canceled. It has been getting better this season (mostly: it has had a couple of not-so-good episodes). Sure its not Deep Space 9 quality stuff and if I was forced to pick which show to keep (Angel or Enterprise) I’d say ANGEL. So..if UPN canceled Enterprise, but picked up ANGEL…..I could forgive them for canceling Enterprise…(though I’d still miss Enterprise)
BUT still, I really don’t want either of the shows canceled. I enjoy ANGEL quite a bit and while Enterprise isn’t great: I do enjoy watching it. And its the only Star Trek on right now.
My dream: UPN renews Enteprise and decides to kick Bermen & Braga out and gets somebody really cool (like James Wong & Glen Morgan or Josh Wheldon or somebody else who knows what their doing) to take over Enteprise.
And get some new writers too! Heck, get PAD to write some episodes!!
As for Angel, my dream is that WB will realize their mistake and bring it back next season…lol. Yes, I know the Enterprise thing has a lot more chance of happening…(though it prob won’t…). So here’s hoping UPN or somebody else picks Angel up..
*sigh* Anyway…here’s hoping I don’t lose two shows I watch this season.
Really I hope I don’t lose any shows…lol *knock on wood*
DF2506
” After last season..with Farscape, Firefly, John Doe…that was too much…especially Farscape (love that show) “
My dream Star Trek series… hmm a few years ago my RPG did ran it already. In game time it was concurrent with the last three seasons of Deep Space Nine. The catch… we were all cardassians drafted to serve on a Galor class warship called the Rezarc. Some of the players were really Pro-Dominion kill the Federation bášŧárdš, others were releuctant warriors, a few were in and out of the brig for insubordination, most of them tried to kill each other and then there was me… the lowest ranking member of the crew worked his way up from waste management to Transporter Operator simply by having the common sense to stay out of peoples way. Of course he was also an Obsidian Order/Cardassian Intelligence Agent. Alas while on shore leave on Cardassia, he died in midway through the campaign repaying to debt to an old friend. Something about gathering information on where to get a recording rod and where some of the best holoforgers were. You don’t need me to tell you that’s the last time he’d ever ask for a discount on a suit.
On the continuity issue I’m surprised that nobody mentioned the Romulan cloaks (and if someone did, and I missed it, I apologize).
In TOS ep “Balance of Terror”, when the Romulan ship decloaked, Spock mentioned that cloaking tech was ‘theortically possible’ and that the Rommies “May have” found away the immense power drain a cloak would require.
In ENTs “Minefield” the NX-01 encounters Romulan ships with cloaks over 100 years prior to “Balance of Terror”.
Personally, I’d like to see Enterprise get one more season.
Why? Well, why not?
I thought Angel was doing well in the rating’s??? As Far as ENTERPRISE? That should have been cancelled after the first season. I do not call that show Star Trek. That show is more like a Star dud in my humble opinion. I could do a better Trek than that!
Never mind ENTERPRISE! We had good Treks TNG should at least have had 6 movies under their belts by now then pass it onto DS9 & then VOY like TOS did but Berman made sure the last 2 of TNG’s storylines were so weak that there was no way for them to continue. Berman seriously needs to be gone and yes, I can’t stand him! 🙂
Might I suggest that if Paramount wants to try again they go with the “Starfleet Acedmy” concept, basically the adventures of a young James Kirk.
I agree with the Academy concept, but not with Kirk. I’d like it to be post TNG/DS9/VOY. The problem with going back in time is the same one facing Enterprise: not only do you constantly have to worry about continuity, but you are limited by it. By setting the story after everything else we’ve seen, the opportunities to explore are endless.
The problem with an academic setting is the limited scope. DS9 took place on a “backwater” station, but it was in the middle of the Dominion conflict, which had a bearing on the entire Star Trek Universe. A school would only face “What new species of alien is being admitted this week?” and other such problems. They could talk about what happened in other parts of the universe, but they’d never be a part of it themselves.
Enterprise is NOT cancelled. But its future is uncertain. It could very well get the axe or, if renewed, it could move to a different night. UPN will probably make a decision around April when they review their 2004-05 schedule. Until then, if you like the show, show your support for another season.
I would like to know who to send post cards to that will eventuate in a “New Frontier” series.
Am I the only one thinking that Enterprise would work pretty darn well if it’s seen as the history/origin of the Mirror Universe? Continuity-wise, anyway. The occasional bouts of bad acting and muteness of main characters is a different matter entirely.
I think the show is improving in quality, but it still has a long way to go. More lax adherence to the minutiae of continuity also makes for better viewing, by the way.
I will miss Angel and should Enterprise be cancelled, I would regret that very much.
If it happens, I would be very frustrated because Enterprise would definitely be more deserving of having seven seasons than Voyager!
Enterprise certainly has its weaknesses but in general, I like the series. Season three is definitely moving into the right direction. I like the continuing storyline and strong continuity within the series.
What I am less fond of is the strong T&A content in many episodes but to be fair, at least it is not as blatantly one-sided as in Voyager and more balanced: Also female fans get something to look at. Nevertheless, the blue underwear in Enterprise is very conservative and women don`t show more than a naked back and bare shoulders.
During the first two seasons Enterprise has only very few episodes I would classify as bad but quite a few that were not better than average. In the third season, so far I like them all. What I am missing now, though, is the sense of fun. The episode in which Shran re-appeared had some great fun moments but that was an exception. Of course the third season so far dealt with a very serious topic, but so did DS9 during the Dominion War storyline. Nevertheless, DS9 didn`t lose the fun element even then.
Also, I am really wondering now why Travis Mayweather is still listed as a main character. He has less to do and to say than a character like Geordi in TNG!
These problems can be fixed and I am sure, this would help Enterprise. I am hoping it will get the chance because I think Enterprise has a lot of potential!
> It has been opined that this is why the character Robert Duncan McNeil played on Voyager was a completely new character, and not Nick Locarno, the character with the similar background that he played in New Ground(TNG), and why Jolene Blalock’s character on Enterprise was not T’Pau from Amok Time(TOS) as early pre-show publicity suggested. The writers of those original episodes would have to be paid royalties for every episode Nick Locarno and T’Pau appeared in.
Didn’t Bashir first turn up on TNG?
Bladestar: Ok, I found a reference, according to “The Star Trek Encyclopedia: A reference Guide to the Future”(Copyright 1994, First Printing April 1994)
Pg 309 “Spock was the first Vulcan to enlist in the Federation Starfleet, and distinguished himself greatly as the science officer aboard the original USS Enterprise.”
Dunno how official of a source the book is, but it confirmed my memory of Spock’s history.
Luigi Novi: The vast majority of the info in the Encyclopedia and Chronology is canonical because it is derived from the episodes and movies. However, such information in those two books usually cites the episode or movie from which that data point is derived, Bladestar, and I noticed that you not only didn’t provide it, but that you’re using a different version of the Encyclopedia, since the one I have does not have info on Spock on page 309. (I’m guessing you’re using the most recent version that came out in 1999 after DS9 ended with the blue cover that had the updated material in the back of the book instead of being incorporated into its main body. I still have only the 1997 updated version with the purple and black cover that has all the new info incorporated into the old in one section.)
Bladestar: Peter needs to license the characters out at a discount rate so a TV show (or at least a few movies) can be made.
Luigi Novi: Amen, brother. I wish they’d give him something like a larger percentage of profits from the merchandising, and/or maybe exec producer/creative consultant status in exchange for reduced royalties, but then again Peter has stated that he’s not keen on moving to the West Coast. 🙁
M. Keller: Concerning the answers provided by the following writer ( Luigi Novi @ 02/16/2004 09:13 PM ET ), I just HAVE to say…YOU ARE DA MAN!
Luigi Novi: LOL. Thanks, M. I’m a fan of Phil Farrand’s Nitpicker’s Guides for Trekkers, and a frequent visitor to his message board site, http://www.nitcentral.com, where I and other nitpickers like to keep track of these things for fun. (Nits do not, IMO, have anything to do, in and of themselves, with the overall quality of the episode, mind you, but I’m hoping to one day maybe publish my own collection of bloopers and blunders that I’ve been compiling for the past several years.) The site’s also grown to include topics including politics, religion, humor, music, novels, movies, science, other TV shows, etc., you can create your own conversation, and moderators actively patrol for trolls, so feel free to visit. 🙂
Steve: On the continuity issue I’m surprised that nobody mentioned the Romulan cloaks (and if someone did, and I missed it, I apologize).
Luigi Novi: Apology accepted. 🙂 (I mentioned it in my 02/16/2004 09:13 PM post, along with 13 other examples of Enterprise continuity mutilation.)
Dee: Berman made sure the last 2 of TNG’s storylines were so weak that there was no way for them to continue.
Luigi Novi: Well, you’d think he had done the right thing by hiring the guy who wrote Gladiator and The Last Samuari to write the script, wouldn’t you? Who’d have thought that John Logan would’ve turned in such a weak, ST II-plagiarizing story? (Then again, he also wrote The Time Machine…)
Somebody: Didn’t Bashir first turn up on TNG?
Luigi Novi: No, Emissary(DS9) premiered before Birthright part I(TNG). The former premiered on Jan. 3, 1993. The latter premiered on February 22, 1993. In any case, I’m sure that Bashir was specifically created when DS9’s story Bible was written (though his last name was Amaros, since they didn’t know an Arab would be cast).
Just with the licensing of the characters- it applies one-way to book characters going to TV, but not the other?
After all, Selar, Shelby and Lefler all had TV debuts before NF (Burgy too maybe, can’t remember), so why doesn’t PAD have to pay to use them?
Just curious…
Actually, it was better when Bobby stepped out of the shower and asked…
“What’s Family Guy?”
The Newhart ending was still the best though.
I’m really disapponted about Angel, but I have mixed feelings about Enterprise. While We have much of the season 3 recorded, Laura and I haven’t watched them yet. However, I was disappointed by the second season if you exclude a few episodes. The Ferengi and Borg episodes are not what broke my balls because 1) If memory serves, Archer and crew didn’t know the name of the race, and it wasn’t mentioned. Data in The Last Outpost said details on the Ferengi were sketchy at best. 2) T’Pol and Archer mention a Borg transmission that won’t get to the Delta Quadrant until the 24th Century, which would coincide with the events of Q-Who?. I’m not saying this makes the episodes better. I’m only saying that this what I perceive to be an explanation for those episodes. The thing that really annoys me about Enterprise is that there is no explanation for the Klingon heads.
JHL
ENTERPRISE should not exist at all. We’ve seen instances in that universe’s established ‘future’ history of displays showing the ships which have borne the name “Enterprise” and nowhere is NX-01 to be seen. It never existed as far as the established future (ST – MOTIONLESS PICTURE and ST:TNG) is concerned.
Someone above also wrote about the Romulans and Archer’s ship. Did we see the Romulans at all in that episode? Because, in the original series BALANCE OF TERROR episode, we’re inarguably told that nobody knew what the Romulans looked like.
But it isn’t just ENTERPRISE.
Consider the Dominion War or the Borg incursions in TNG/DS9. One of the early episodes in the original series (THE CORBOMITE MANEUVER) had the Federation enter into relations with Balok’s bunch, the First Federation. These people fielded spherical vessels the size and apparent power of Borg cubes. When one has allies such as this, the Dominion or, for that matter, the Klingons, really aren’t that much of a problem. But nowhere are they ever mentioned outside of the original series. What, they were wiped out by a very species-specific plague? And what of the Organians? Would they really allow the likes of the Borg or Dominion to stomp through known space unchallenged?
They weren’t even internally consistent/logical. Look at Defiant. Supposedly a new class of Borg-killer vessel. Heavily powered and armed and equipped with … an old-model Romulan cloaking device? Nuts to that. Dust off the plans to the Pegasus phasing cloak and put THAT in instead. Now we’re talking.
Too, in ENTERPRISE, the ship goes from standard explosive torpedoes to new photon torpedoes (probably based on information gleamed in the Klingon ship they rescued) in the span of months. Yet, from the original series through the ST movies, we see almost no change in technology other than perhaps warp-capable shuttles and the holodeck. Most of whatwe see is version 4.2 of the original stuff. Haven’t they managed to obtained ANY worthwhile new technologies in terms of vessel propulsion, offense or defense from races they’re allied to, or enemies whose ships they’ve managed to capture? When even the Ferengi can give the flagship (NCC-1701-D) a tough time, maybe it’s past due for a rethink of basic technological direction?
Fans of VOYAGER have created a ‘virtual’ extension of the show, taking it through season 8 and 9. By the end of the extended series, the Federation has adapted both Borg and Sernaix (a new race developed for these stories) technologies into the new ship designs making them a LOT tougher and more efective all around. If only Paramount could have seen fit to allow official writers to let them go that route early on.
I didn’t provide the episode info listed in the book as I didn’t see the point in reproducing too much of it. As far as the page number, it should have the same information under the Spock entry in your edition. Mine has a mostly blackish/dark cover…
Someone said something about possible ideas for a new Trek series. In Voyager there was the ship that was captained by Bruce Dern(I think) and went after Janeway saying that she and her crew were responsible for a lot temporal screwups (paraphrasing here), and then there is the temporal agency that Daniels works for in Enterprise. Are the two related or the same? Different time periods? I love time travel episodes, and if you had a series with an agency that went through time correcting mistakes (a la Quantum Leap) I think it would be fun to see other ships, different times. There was the whole thing where the DS9 crew went back and Sisko became the person responsible for the riots. To me, the possibilities are endless.
And no offense to Luigi, or any other nitpickers out there, but I think all of that ruins the fun of a show. I don’t like blatant disregard for continuity, but if you get into semantics about the way things are phrased about who the first vulcan in starfleet was, and one source says it was the federation starfleet and another just mentions starfleet, can one argue that they aren’t the same thing? Can someone argue that some person says we are the first federation starship to timetravel, and the actual first starship to timetravel did it before the federation was founded? If you’re going to nitpick, be complete. After all, you are leaving out the federation at your conveinced, but it’s a fairly big organization to be omitted at leisure. Besides, maybe there will be another time travel episode where someone changes what happened so that the first time travel episode that negated the later time travel might not have occured, making the first thought time travel the actual first time travel again, which would in turn create a possible loop that the second time travel that had previously been erased exist again to negate the first time travel, which would do away with the third time travel, and then of course would show that there is no need for a third time travel, which as I’m sure you know by now, would completely be needed to restore everything back to the way it was. (Man! I love Temporal Mecahnics!)
I’m a little saddened, but not terribly suprised that Enterprise may be cancelled. I enjoyed the first two seasons, shakey though they may have been at times. Wasn’t bothered too much by some of the continuity glitches, especially since a lot of them could be explained away–as someone has in this thread–as the result of so much time-travel in the Trek world. But the whole Xindi bore really killed it for me. I haven’t watched the show regularly since its been opposite Smallville & wouldn’t notice if it was axed.
After all, Selar, Shelby and Lefler all had TV debuts before NF (Burgy too maybe, can’t remember), so why doesn’t PAD have to pay to use them?
Because the use of all existing Trek characters is covered under the licensing agreement between Pocket Books and Paramount.
Technically speaking, the NF characters likewise belong to Paramount. So in theory, they could turn around and base a series on NF without having to pay me a cent. In theory. In actual practice, that would never fly with the Writers Guild, and a settlement that’s commensurate with what other show creators get would be necessary for a series to proceed.
PAD
Ahhh, I knew there would be something like that. Thanks for the explanation…
Still reckon an SCE-type crew putting out diplomatic/military fires instead of engineering ones would make the best new Trek series.
“no offense to Luigi, or any other nitpickers out there, but I think all of that ruins the fun of a show”
Most of the nitpicks really have no bearing on the quality of the show.
I have been enjoying it so far. I think the Expanse storyline made things more interesting this season, though I thought when it was first announced that it was supposed to have been over by now. I am pretty sure that the Xindi attack on the Earth was clearly stated as something that shouldn’t have happened. It is outside of our known continuity.
What I believe to be a big mistake from the beginning is the pandering they have done with T’Pol’s body at various times. There really is no reason for doing that except trying to get short term ratings bumps that don’t seem to have worked.
As far as later continuity and the end of the series, currently it is 2152 or 2153. The first Romulan War is supposed to take place from 2156 – 2160. Enterprise either needs to wrap up before 2156 or perhaps the last few years of the series would take care of the whole war and the series would end with the establishment of the Romulan Neutral Zone.
I think the show still is enjoyable.
Neil
//The funny thing is, ENTERPRISE had some very good episodes. “Proving Ground” was extremely good, with the great Jeffrey Combs and the passionate Andorians being a nice contrast to the logical Vulcans; and I liked the “Strategy” ep as well.//
Our local clique is of the opinion that Enterprise is only worth watching when Jeffrey Coombs is on.
And if you like his character here, by all means go watch “The Frighteners” (a previous movie by Peter Jackson), where he plays a strange and hilarious mix of Fox Mulder and a Clive Barker leftover.
Ya’ know, I think that “Enterprise” IS the Star Trek “ulyimate” version. The show has taken elements of all the previous series: exploration, sense of wonder from TOS, borrowed tech and races from TNG, war and political storylines from DS9, and lastly lone ship in unknown space from VOY. Like “Ultimate Spider-man”, “Enterprise” has played fast and loose with continiuty, but included lots of familiar things. The main difference that I see between the two, is that in ultimate spidey, when the writer has revisited the continuity of the original Spider-man, he has given it a fresh spin or gone into the emotions behind the decisions behind the choices made in the original version — in “Enterprise” the revisitations just seem like carbon copies. When “Enterprise has done something NEW, it has been pretty good. I especially enjoyed the episode “Strategm” which showed us smart, devious human thinking. I can’t recall anything quite like it it any Trek series. Also, I think some of the Xindi stuff is pretty good Space Opera. I’m willing to give it another season. I just hope the writing continues to improve as it has the last handful of episodes and that TPTB at CBS have “faith of the heart.”
In re: a NEW FRONTIER series, one also needs to remember that they’d almost certainly have to recast Robin Lefler. I can’t imagine Ashley “I’m a big movie star now” Judd going back to the role, at least not as a regular in a TV series.
I always thought that if Paramount had a network, they had all TV formats available to them. They could make ST mini-series, the Captain Sulu long-promised, never-delivered storyline, ST TV movies, and so forth. A little planning and a good, resolvable storyline would go a long way towards satisfying Paramounts merchandising goals and give the faithful what they want. WB could do more with DC comics characters as well, and not just a non-costumed Flash (I shudder at the thought).
Angel’s demise has less to do with ratings (which are marginally better than last season’s), and a WHOLE LOT to do with the fact that it is owned and distributed by Fox, not Warner Bros.
This is Vertical Integration at work. Media Corporations want shows that they can make money on at all stages of its life — original broadcasts, reruns, syndication, licensing and DVD sales. They prefer not sharing any of this revenue stream with any other Media Corporation…which explains why Smallville survives (Warner production and distribution, based on DC characters playing on The WB) and Angel is given the boot.
Given that, the only possible future home of Angel might be F/X (News Corp.) rather than TNT (Time-Warner) or UPN (Viacom), but the series is a lot more expensive to produce than The Shield…so don’t look for it there, either.
They made sure that they didn’t learn the name of the race that attacked the Enterprise.
I get tired of hearing this lame excuse for the Ferengi.
You meet an alien races, which is your dámņ job, and you don’t atleast get their names… well, you’re the worst dámņ explorers ever.
That’s what Archer and ENT is… a bunch of lame-ášš explorers selling sex to teenagers so atleast *somebody* will watch the crap.
Ya’ know, I think that “Enterprise” IS the Star Trek “ulyimate” version.
Which I think is part of the problem.
First, they wanted to advertise is as “not quite Trek”, yet be Trek.
They also wanted to it to be reverse-tech, yet not quite reverse-tech.
Maybe things would have gone a little better if they’d outright said: Yes, this is semi-this and that, but since it’s 35 years of backstory, we’re just gonna start from scratch.
But they didn’t.
1. If ANGEL is cancled, the WB has no one to blame but themselves. I think their previous track record between the last couple of seasons of Angel and Buffy when it was still with the WB speak for themselves.
2. If STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE is cancled, Paramount has no one to blame but themselves.
Everyone but the proverbial powers that be want to go forward. What’s happening with Picard and company? What’s happening on DS9? As entertaining as the paperbacks are, to some it is not enough.
There’s a whole Gamma quadrant left unexplored. Peter created a New Frontier. Yet Paramount goes retro, and badly at that, despite the best efforts of Bakula and company.
And in the end, it is the people who work directly on the shows that take the initial blunt of the blame while the fans suffer.
Here it is. The Show that will Save Star Trek.
Dig it: “Star Trek: Crusher.”
That’s right. Wes Crusher, still amped up with his space-and-time hopping abilities he had at the end of Next Gen.
He zips from Trek past to future! He appears in episodes not meant for him (as in the Tribbles DS9 episode).
He rights wrongs! Fights Q! Gets laid by serious foxy babes!
Man. I was joking. But this is a good idea. I’m telling you. I’m TELLING YOU!!!
And it wouldn’t be another “We’re on a ship” show! More like James Bond meets Quantum Leap! With more bøøbš!
Meow
The abrupt, early notification of Angel’s cancellation had nothing to do with allowing Mutant Enemy to wrap up the show in a grand fashion.
Networks don’t abruptly announce a show’s end of season cancellation to INCREASE ratings.
The WB is NOT promoting Angel’s demise like NBC is lovingly characterizing the end of “Frasier” or “Friends”.
For every die-hard “Angel” fan that will savor these last few episodes… There will be thousands of casual watchers who will turn off the show and watch something else because they will now feel certain that “Angel” will not be back next year.
Let’s face it… the current WB hierarchy doesn’t like Joss, Fox Studios, etc. (no matter what they say in their press releases) because “Buffy” was famously pulled from their network and put on UPN.
Last year’s “near cancellation” was the WB’s way of reinvigorating viewer interest in “Angel” and also swiftly kicking Joss & Co. in the butt– telling them to pay more attention to the show… While they (the WB) steadfastly worked to find and develop another show to eventually replace “Angel”.
And the WB’s plan has worked perfectly– at least in the “Angel” creative department. Most viewers seem to think that “Angel” Season 5 is light-years better than last year’s work. (At least so far.)
The sad fact is… the WB honchos already believe they have found something that will replace “Angel” as the “perfect” lead-out for “Smallville”… or they would not have announced the cancellation so early.
They didn’t make the announcement early to help Joss find a new “home” for “Angel”… or to let the talented Mutant Enemy stable of writers find replacement TV gigs… The WB made the announcement early because they could.
And anybody who doesn’t think announcing the “Angel” cancellation on Friday the 13th wasn’t some WB flunky’s idea of a sick joke to drive salt into Joss and Co.’s wounds… Isn’t taking the time to read between the lines.
James Heath Lantz: The Ferengi and Borg episodes are not what broke my balls because If memory serves, Archer and crew didn’t know the name of the race…
Luigi Novi: Why are there so many people who buy this as an explanation? Do you honestly buy the idea that Archer didn’t ask them what their names were, that he didn’t have their computer banks examined, take visual records of them, etc.? And if he didn’t, then that’s just as outrageous a plot hole, and I’m not buying it. You don’t have these alien šhìŧhëádš take over your ship without making extensive records of who they were, what their names were, where they’re from, what their technology’s like, etc. when you know other people might run into these guys, like the captains of the three future NX-class ships being built. Travis told Ryan in Fortunate Son that with more Warp 5 starships on the way, things would be changing. You coulda fooled me.
James Heath Lantz: T’Pol and Archer mention a Borg transmission that won’t get to the Delta Quadrant until the 24th Century, which would coincide with the events of Q-Who?. I’m not saying this makes the episodes better. I’m only saying that this what I perceive to be an explanation for those episodes.
Luigi Novi: And why didn’t the Enterprise-D crew know who the Borg were in Q Who(TNG), given all the photos they took of the Borg in Regeneration(TNG)? And what about Phlox’s discovery that omicron particles are harmful to the nanoprobes? Again, nothing was ever mentioned of this in any of the NextGen or Voyager episodes featuring the Borg. Crusher stated that she was only able to remove Picard’s Borg implants at the end of The Best of Both Worlds partII(TNG) after he was disconnected from the Collective. But given what Phlox discovered, she should’ve known that she could’ve killed the nanoprobes in him with omicron particles.
The StarWolf: Someone above also wrote about the Romulans and Archer’s ship. Did we see the Romulans at all in that episode? Because, in the original series BALANCE OF TERROR episode, we’re inarguably told that nobody knew what the Romulans looked like.
Luigi Novi: I don’t recall anyone complaining about this, since we didn’t see their faces in Minefield(ENT), but Archer should not have encountered Romulans with cloaking devices, since Balance of Terror indicates that was the first time they had seen that technology.
Bladestar: As far as the page number, it should have the same information under the Spock entry in your edition. Mine has a mostly blackish/dark cover…
Luigi Novi: That would mean we have the same edition, but page 309 of The Encyclopedia contains the entries from Marlena Moreau (mirror) to Morrow, Admiral. Spock’s entry is on pages 458 & 459, and it does say in the second paragraph of 459 that he was the first Vulcan to enlist in Starfleet (it doesn’t specify the Academy), but it doesn’t cite the episode that established it. It continues on about his service under Captain Pike before it provides The Menagerie(TOS) as a source. (Is it saying that episode established not only his service with Pike but his status as the first Vulcan in Starfleet?)
Steve O’Rando: In Voyager there was the ship that was captained by Bruce Dern(I think)…
Luigi Novi: Captain Braxton was played by Allan Royal in Future’s End I-II(VOY), and by Bruce McGill in Relativity(VOY). Bruce Dern has never appeared in Star Trek.
Steve O’Rando: …and then there is the temporal agency that Daniels works for in Enterprise. Are the two related or the same? Different time periods?
Luigi Novi: Braxton is from the 29th century, and Daniels is from the 31st, but nothing has been stated that prevents them from being the same organization.
Steve O’Rando: And no offense to Luigi, or any other nitpickers out there, but I think all of that ruins the fun of a show.
Luigi Novi: To each his own. And none taken. But as I stated above, nitpicking is entirely distinct from the overall quality of the show. The overall quality of the plot, the dialogue, the characterization, the acting, directing, FX, action, originality, theme, etc., are what determine whether an episode is good or not, not how many nits it has. There are some nits are not mere nits, but big plot holes or contrivances that (in the absence of a good story that may allow me to forgive it) destroy suspension of disbelief, like the “Archer never got the Ferengis’ names” rationalization, but not all nits are thus. Some of my favorite episodes and movies have the highest number of nits, after all.
Personally, nitpicking is fun, so long as it’s done that way. As Phil Farrand, who started the whole shebang with his Nitpicker’s Guides said, it’s should be done with good humor and cheer.
Steve O’Rando: I don’t like blatant disregard for continuity, but if you get into semantics about the way things are phrased about who the first vulcan in starfleet was, and one source says it was the federation starfleet and another just mentions starfleet, can one argue that they aren’t the same thing?
Luigi Novi: Starfleet is Starfleet, Steve. Why would it be two different things. Presumably It was merely incorporated into the Federation when the Federation was founded.
Steve O’Rando: Can someone argue that some person says we are the first federation starship to timetravel, and the actual first starship to timetravel did it before the federation was founded? If you’re going to nitpick, be complete. After all, you are leaving out the federation at your conveinced, but it’s a fairly big organization to be omitted at leisure.
Luigi Novi: Actually, I pointed out to Darren J. Hudak that Archer never traveled through time with the Enterprise. Both times he did so, Daniels plucked out of the 2150’s with his 31st century equipment.
Neil Ottenstein: As far as later continuity and the end of the series, currently it is 2152 or 2153.
Luigi Novi: Last week’s episode, Harbinger, was set on December 27, 2153.
Neil Ottenstein: The first Romulan War is supposed to take place from 2156 – 2160. Enterprise either needs to wrap up before 2156 or perhaps the last few years of the series would take care of the whole war and the series would end with the establishment of the Romulan Neutral Zone.
Luigi Novi: It doesn’t have to take place in 2156. The use of the word “century” in Balance of Terror when describing when it took place can be rounded off.
Half the fun of the “Nitpicker’s Guides” is the really silly stuff, like when the phaser is in the character’s left hand, something else in the right, then half a second later for no reason the phaser in the right and the other object is in the left. Or the equipment oddities and the like…
The possible upside to all this (and a possible, though unlkely reason for Angel’s cancellation) is that it frees up David Boreanaz to play Superman, which he’s apparently screen-tested for, but couldn’t make fit with his Angel schedule. I keep having this nagging (and probably paranoid) thought that one of the producers in the movie division (which probably has more pull at Time-Warner than the TV network) called programming and told them to cancel Angel to free up Boreanaz for the Superman movie (now set for worldwide release in 2084, at the rate production is going).
Ah, as long as they don’t cancel American Chopper and Monk, I don’t care 😉
I’m not nitpicking when I complain about the Ferengi, the Romulans, and the Borg on Enterprise. I’m just annoyed with the narrative laziness. I thought the whole point of doing a prequel was to escape thirty years of continuity. I’d like to see new concepts, new aliens, and so on.
Look at what TOS, TNG, and DSN had accomplished by the end of their third seasons. This is why I’m disappointed with Enterprise.
Considering that the show debuted post 9/11, I thought it would have been interesting and fitting with the times if the whole Expanse/Xindi storyline had started the series — we’ve done exploration — why not show a starship crew and its captain truly tested?
Instead we got two years of more of the same and no real character development. What interests me about Enterprise and even Smallville is how secondary characters often get short shrift, when on Buffy, Xander, Willow, Cordelia, Giles, even Joyce were so fully developed while still supported the main character.
And after nearly three years, we still don’t know who Future Guy is? Sorry, that’s not suspensful, it’s just annoying.
I think you hit on why I’ve had zero enthusiasm for ENTERPRISE – the narrative laziness of the series. If they really wanted to do an “us versus future guy and an alien group,” why not just create a new series covering that and leave Trek alone? (Of course the answer is that if you can make it Trek, you’re guaranteed a show.)
A series dealing with the early days of what would become Starfleet could have been an amazing series to focus on. Instead, we’ve been stuck with having to dump in all the worst aspects of the others series into this one because they can’t think outside of the loop of TNG/Voyager any longer. A real shame.
I don’t think it’s nitpicking to look at Enterprise and think, “Boy, they really didn’t do a good job here in just giving us more of the same that they’ve had for the past ten years.” They could have easily done this show and not have anyone thinking continuity was messed with. But they couldn’t be bothered and ended up actually making it harder than necessary. Oh well, at least there’s some good stuff in the previous series.
After all, Selar, Shelby and Lefler all had TV debuts before NF (Burgy too maybe, can’t remember), so why doesn’t PAD have to pay to use them?
Because the use of all existing Trek characters is covered under the licensing agreement between Pocket Books and Paramount.
Technically speaking, the NF characters likewise belong to Paramount. So in theory, they could turn around and base a series on NF without having to pay me a cent. In theory. In actual practice, that would never fly with the Writers Guild, and a settlement that’s commensurate with what other show creators get would be necessary for a series to proceed.
Of course, there’s also nothing stoping them from simply “renaming” the characters you created or simply creating similar ones. My guess is that Paramount would want to stay on the Writers Guild’s good side though.
EClark
I have only watched Enterprise a couple of times, but from what I’ve seen I can honestly say that. Berman & Braga wouldn’t know how to write a Star Trek plot if it walked up and kicked them in the ášš!! The last show that I watched was where they meet the Borg. I might just be stupid, but wasn’t Picard the one that discovered the Borg? I do agree that Paramount needs to fire Berman & Braga, and come up with a new series.
(with people writing it that actually know what they are doing) I think that New Frontier, or one about the time travailing ship Relativity
The person missing on Enterprise is Ronald D. Moore. If you watched “Battlestar Galactica” you can tell the effect he had on that series, and he was responsible for a heck of a lot of DS9 and TNG. And though I hated Voyager, Michael Piller was responsible for a lot of DS9 and Voyager. ( I personally think ds9 was the best series)
And Piller was responsible for the excellent Dead Zone series.
On a brighter note, the galactica series has been given a green light for 13 eps.
Travis
I think Rick Berman is just burned out. Fifteen years working the same universe can do that. Braga did some good episodes about ten years ago. Same thing.
PAD:
I know we kinda hijacked your previous thread with this one, but you’ve been fairly silent about the supposed impending doom of Enterprise. What are your thoughts on this subject, if any? My primary reason for visiting this site is because I enjoy reading what you have to say about stuff like this (or anything else on your mind). What’s your take?
Well, apparently Peter’s ripping off Joss in advance again by writing comic books. 🙂 Seriously, it’s being announced that Joss will write twelve issues of a new Astonishing X-Men title starting in May, with John Cassidy doing the art.
The FRAY TPB he wrote turned out pretty good, now Joss is gonna write an X-Men title? Ðámņ, I’m to NOT get back into comics…
If they want to keep Trek’s hardcore fans then they may need to bring back Kirk to keep it alive say want you want but us diehard’s never forgave Berman for killing him off in Generations!!! I still say Berman needs to go. That man has had his run time to give it someone else before THERE IS no nore Trek franchise to speak of.
I say: let PAD take over Trek. 🙂
It seems that a lot of the continuity problems mentioned higher up in this thread sort themselves out if we come to the one very obvious conclusion.
Spock was a big fat liar.
I don’t know why we didn’t see it before! He must be some kind of undercover Vulcan spy, sent in to screw up Kirk and the gang with misinformation.
There. Everything’s solved. We’re all happy now.
These remarks may earn me the characterization as a troll, but they are really my heartfelt beliefs.
I’m happy to see “Angel” go. There can never be a “good vampire” story, any more than there can be a “good rapist story” or a “good Nazi-affirming Holocaust story.” ‘Nuff said there.
As for “Enterprise,” I know how people love the Star Trek Universe. Some of my best friends are part-time Klingons. But what strikes me about the history of the Trek shows is how, over the years, they’ve related less and less to our own lives.
The original “Star Trek” reflected the America of the 1960’s in many of its facets; the militarism and the peace movement; America as the world’s policeman and as a place insignificant in the cosmic order of things; a place of wise men and wise guys.
With each successive Trek production, the stories have entered their own little world, with very little reflecting back our own lives. “Voyager” was escapism from escapism; Janeway and crew didn’t even have the regular Trek universe to deal with, most of the time.
“Enterprise” was like “Happy Days” for Trek. There weren’t really Richie Cunninghams or Arthur Fonzerelli’s in the real world, and most of the nitpicking on “Enterprise” seems to say that “This isn’t how the early years of Starfleet really happened! It’s a fantasy!”
Remember the outcry when David Gerrold wrote a “Next Gen” script with gay people accepted in Starfleet? That determination to keep Trek from touching events in our world – things that might disturb us or really make us think – is what’s killing it.
I just want to say something concerning the posting in which PAD was asked to say something about the threat that Enterprise could be cancelled.
If PAD says, I don`t like Enterprise, this would be repeated all over the net and beyond. Most probably, it would also be exaggerated and retold out of context. It will also reach the attention of the people PAD is working with and for when writing his Star Trek books. Maybe they wouldn`t mind but maybe they would. Why should PAD risk it?
It is similar with when I read the vast majority of articles about Star Trek. The main tune is: Everything is wonderful, we have a great time and we are proud to be part of it. When there is criticism for a change, it is usually very carefully phrased and most sticky topics are either evaded or they refuse to comment. As frustrating as it is for us fans sometimes, I can understand why this is done very well.