Well, I hope President Gore’s happy now. He’s got a warm body to ensure his 2004 re-election bid, and proven that he’s muy macho than President George H.W. Bush. And it only took the deaths of hundreds of US soldiers and thousands of Iraqis to accomplish it.
As a right-thinking American, I can only shake my head at this travesty. After Gore’s utter failure at capturing bin Laden–and with the GOP rightly launching a two year investigation into his inability to prevent the 9/11 disaster (an investigation he tried to stonewall and then cut back to 18 months so the bad news wouldn’t hit right around the election; thank God the GOP saw through that obvious attempt)–he went after someone he *could* find. Concerned about the Iraqi people? Please. Oil, yes. Reelection, yes. The people? People in China and Saudi Arabi are treated just as badly if not worse, and those are our allies.
So he bamoozles Congress with tales of non-existent weapons of mass destruction. Saddam keeps telling the UN he doesn’t have them, and we insist he does. The valiant GOP tried to prevent an aggression that will verify every negative thing the world thinks about us, but the Democrats shove it through, so they won’t look like the weak-kneed, soft-on-crime-and-terrorist party they are. And now it’s nine months later, and we finally have in hand a dictator (with no WMDs, of course). And the joy of it for Gore is that 70% of America has such a short attention span that they think we’ve nailed the guy who was responsible for 9/11.
Say this for Gore: He’s mastered the knack for misdirection that he learned from his old boss, Clinton, whose fault 9/11 really was. Gotta give him that. This has been a masterful scam that P.T. Barnum would envy. Because Americans aren’t going to care about anything other than that We Caught A Bad Guy. The fact that we’ve fostered a brand new generation of terrorists while doing it, that we’ve squandered the international good will we had from 9/11 and put ourselves into record-setting debt doing it…none of that matters.
Let’s hope enough people see through Gore’s obvious deceptions. But somehow I doubt it.
PAD
• 
Oh, Peter, Peter, Peter…
You’ve got your flak jacket on, I trust?
Provocative thought-experiment, indeed. One of the more interesting things I’ve read on the subject in the last few days.
Provocative thought-experiment, indeed. One of the more interesting things I’ve read on the subject in the last few days.
More like a strawman. He’s condemning people for not acting like the caricature he has of them.
More like a strawman. He’s condemning people for not acting like the caricature he has of them.
I can’t help it if people act like caricatures.
PAD
That is a little much, Isn’t it, PAD?
I mean, to imply that that is how republicans/conservatives would have reacted if this were Gore in Bush’s shoes right now? C’mon.
I mean, do you really think Gore would have gone into Afghanistan, let alone Iraq? I have doubts that we would have our plane or airmen back from the Chinese if he had been voted in.
If nothing else, not a single vehicle would have been used overseas, because of the use of internal combustion to get them there and use them (see Gore’s book “Earth in the Balance”, for his opinions on the internal combustion engine).
I think Gore would have gone into Afghanistan, yes (if for no other reason than to avoid being labeled weak by conservatives). I think he would then have been crucified for not finding bin Laden. I think the GOP and/or GOP pundits would have been ruthlessly blaming him for 9/11, claiming that terrorists saw him as a weak president and attacked with impunity. And I think if Gore had, for whatever reason, tried to attack Iraq, he’d never have been given the power to do so, and it would have been dismissed as a shell game by conservative pundits.
PAD
So- you believe it is wrong that Saddam was captured? I don’t understand. Do you dislike Bush so badly that it has blinded you to how much worse Saddam was as a tyrant?
What happens if we end up finally getting Osama? Will you also condemn that?
I see your point, PAD, but I’m not sure it’s entirely right. I don’t think the bipartisan hostility we have today if Gore had won. Gore didn’t have as much to prove — his record, such as it was, didn’t have the blemishes on it that Bush’s did. His interests would be different, and his way of accomplishing his goals would be different. Bush’s cowboy justice is distinctly not Gore’s style, and I’m fairly certain that Korea and China would have been responded to, and the economic problems acknowledged (at the very least!) if Gore were in Bush’s boots right now.
While it’s true that retconning everything Bush did to Gore’s credit would have approximately the reaction you described above from the right, Gore’s situation, had he been elected and responded in his own idiom to the same things that happened to Bush, would be much different.
I suspect that we might just finally capture Osama in say…ten or eleven months. Right around election time.
Me am so sad Saddam Hussein set free. Me am sad PAD uses blog to express his impersonal beliefs. Me am happy others congratulate him for it.
Bizarro, indeed.
Oil, yes.
That’s nonsense. You can’t build a pipeline from Iraq to Texas. As the article from Salon that I posted said, oil is sold on the spot market at world prices. The oil companies were against the war. They lose money when there’s instability.
Reelection, yes.
Who would risk disaster in Iraq for re-election? The list of things that could have gone wrong is long: chemical weapons being used against out troops, ecological disaster, millions of refugees, the Arab street rising up…
The people? People in China and Saudi Arabi are treated just as badly if not worse, and those are our allies.
This isn’t bizarro, it’s just plain stupid. Maybe in bizarro world China is America’s ally, but not in the real one. China consistently opposed any action against Iraq and were even helping them strengthen their air defense system to shoot down our planes. Actually, they were *your* ally.
“Treated just as bad”? There are an estimated 300,000 in mass graves in Iraq. http://www.9neesan.com/massgraves/
In Baghdad alone, 61,000 are estimated to have been executed:
http://www.instapundit.com/archives/012925.php
Not to mention special rape squads, people fed into plastic shredders, and this: http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3068387&p1=0.
One man hid in a wall for twenty years to escape Hussein. He considered himself lucky. To quote Damian Penny, “This war would still be justified if Bush went on television and said ‘I did it all to seize the oil for my Zionist masters'”. The only country that’s comparable is North Korea. Military action against them is out for reasons I’ve given before. (If you’re still complaining about not going after NK, here’s a petition for you: http://www.studentsforwar.org/)
The fact that we’ve fostered a brand new generation of terrorists while doing it, that we’ve squandered the international good will we had from 9/11
This crap again? That column by Fuoud Ajami that I posted demolished it. Any “sympathy” was qualified from the first and lost when we stopped being victims and went after the Taliban. To hëll with sympathy.
Here’s the reaction of an actual Iraqi: I don’t know what to say.. I am confused.. no … I am very happy.. I am very happy.. .. I am very happy.. .. I am very happy.. .. I am very happy.. .. I am very happy.. .. I am very happy..
This is the end of tyranny.. congratulations .. a great day.. for Iraqi and all the good people.. share us our great day.. I can’t express my feelings.. thanks to the coalition forces and all the honest people who helped in that great operation….thank you thank you thousand times..
http://iraqataglance.blogspot.com/archives/2003_12_01_iraqataglance_archive.html#107141073769746960
Maybe I’ve slipped into Bizarro world. In mine, liberals actually work to overthrow fascist dictators, not keep them in power.
More like a strawman. He’s condemning people for not acting like the caricature he has of them.
I can’t help it if people act like caricatures.
They aren’t, unless you have actual superpowers that let you look into Bizarro world. Anything else is your supposition.
Jim Burdo, you hit the nail on the head.
Perhaps the China=ally comment was meant to suggest that China would have been an ally had Gore been President. Was it not Chinese monks who gave Gore a bunch of money in a scandal a few years back? (I don’t remember if that was specifically election-related or not.) Give a man some cash, he’s more likely to turn a friendly eye your way.
davidh
Hussein would still be in power if Gore were president. He says himself that he is opposed to the war.
It would have been easy to ignore Iraq and I think that’s what would have happened.
As for “new terrorists” sprouting up because of our actions in Iraq, we can’t always base on actions out of fear of retaliation from barbarians. We would have abandoned Israel long ago if this were the case.
Anyway, as an independent who didn’t vote for Bush and most likely won’t vote for Bush next year (not that it would matter if I did since I live in NYC), I do feel sorry for hardcore Democrats. They’re up the creek and can only demonize the right or ascribe sinister motivations to them. But politics ain’t beanbag, so that’s how it goes.
I would advise though to not play up the “can’t find bin Laden” thing since just a few weeks ago the Democrat candidates were playing up the “can’t find Hussein” and now get to see that played over and over and over again.
Oh well.
saddam is bad and it’s good thing that he’s been caught. I just hope it dosn’t end there, how about bringing to justice the people who proped him up, funded him & gave him shitloads of weapons in the first place, who would that be Regan Bush Sr & the 80s administration.
I hope the truth comes out in the trial and it would be a right kick if bush’s dad was sent down for crimes against humanity the question is should we call for the death sentence?
Sadly, some of President Gore’s most recent comments were buried on page three, right after the news about Texas governor George W. Bush being linked to Osama bin Laden through their respective family oil connections and the arrest of former president Bill Clinton and T4 star Arnold Schwarzenegger being sued for sexual harrassment after that wild Hollywood party a couple of months ago. A shame about Halliburton chief Ðìçk Cheney dying from a heart ailment, but then again, it’s just as well, what with being indicted for some shady energy deals.
Sorry, I wanted to play too.
Obviously, the point Peter is trying to make is that had things been reversed, Republicans would be acting like the sort of frothy mouthed jáçkáššëš that so many Democrats are being.
It’s a debatable point but at least he sees just how godawful stupid the Dems are being. When that loon Jim McDermott claims that the capture was deliberately held off until the crucial December 14 sweeps period (or whatever the thought is that slowly diffuses through his skull)it helps to solidify in the minds of many the idea that the party is composed of the very last people one would wish to have holding the reins of power.
Anyway, for some thoughtful non-Bizarro writing, try http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/politicsphilosophyandsociety/0,6121,1106445,00.html
Unless reading the following kind of thing upsets your worldview;
**For the first time in its history the Left has nothing to say to the victims of fascism.
Defeat explains much of the betrayal. The past 20 years have witnessed the collapse of communism, the triumph of US capitalism and the recognition of the awkward fact that many Third World revolutions are powered by a religious fundamentalism so strange the traditional Left can’t look it in the eye. The result of the corruption of defeat is an opposition to whatever America does; a looking-glass politics where hypocrisies of power are matched by equal hypocrisies in the opposite direction.
The contortions are almost funny. In the Eighties, when the US and Europe were the de facto allies of Saddam, the Left wept rivers for his Kurdish and Arab victims. The concern dimmed when Saddam spoilt everything by invading Kuwait and turning himself into America’s enemy. In the Nineties, the tyrant of Iraq was no longer responsible for conditions in the tyranny of Iraq. Its suffering was the fault of UN sanctions. By the spring of this year, evasion had reached outright denial as the reflection in the looking glass completed its about turn and opposed the only means of overthrowing Saddam.**
Everyone take a DEEEEP breath.
What you most likely enhaled in your lungs was some nice spicy atomised Osama.
He’s Dead!
Maybe I’ve slipped into Bizarro world. In mine, liberals actually work to overthrow fascist dictators, not keep them in power.
As opposed to the real world where conservatives never supply dictators with munitions, never give helicopters to dictators that are then used to gas his own people, never try to blame another nation for said gassing, and never use their influence to tone down condemnation of such actions.
I don’t know what’s going to be more interesting to follow in this thread: the usual ill-informed ploitical braying from the usual suspects or the woefully degraded state of critical reading abilities, particularly with regard to satire.
PAD, you little firestarter, you…ain’t words fun?
The questions are, if Gore had done the same foriegn policy that George Bush had done. How much would the GOP support or critize him?
Thanks for the great writing PAD
I don’t know what’s going to be more interesting to follow in this thread: the usual ill-informed ploitical braying from the usual suspects or the woefully degraded state of critical reading abilities, particularly with regard to satire.
Both, of course….
First off, I’m a Canadian so I’m sure many people will just want to skip my opinion anyway. Let it not be said that you were not warned.
I have found the whole capture of Saddam as sort of a “so what?” senario. The invasion (let’s not call it anything less, shall we) was complete months ago and if the capture proves nothing else it’s that Saddam has not been in control for quite some time.
In the meanwhile, the people of Iraq continue to be killed, confused from lack of leadership and forced to change thousands of years beliefs in a few months just because we Westerns “know what’s best.”
I’m glad it’s official that Saddam will no longer harm another living being but I can’t say at any point was I or am I comfortable with the way it all went down. I just hope this doesn’t become a recurring theme across the globe.
To quote Damian Penny, “This war would still be justified if Bush went on television and said ‘I did it all to seize the oil for my Zionist masters'”.
Ðámņ, that’s a good line.
Bravo to PAD for a razor-sharp piece of satire that hits the target dead smack in the center.
Why isn’t there any outrage at GWBush for wasting all our time and money and energy in Iraq, to bring down a two-bit dictator who wasn’t an immediate threat to the United States? Why haven’t we seen the public investigation into the root causes of the 9/11 attack, and allow the Bush Administration to stonewall their way out of responsibility? And why aren’t more Americans concerned that their fellow citizens have bought into Bush’s bullstuff hook, line, and sinker?
Flashback moment:
Hey, Peter, remember that column you wrote back after the first Iraq war? The one about Crazy Eight in The Incredible Hulk and one, small death? About how Americans don’t care as long as We Kick Butt and demonstrate that Might Makes Right? It’s downright scary how you could reprint it today with nary a change and it’d still apply.
**What you most likely enhaled in your lungs was some nice spicy atomised Osama.
He’s Dead! **
You have proof of this?
Oh Peter, you never seem to disappoint in sharing your misguided political colors. I knew some sort of asinine ‘after Saddam Captured’ commentary was due from you and you certainly came though in spades. Congratulation on your continuous demonizing. Sigh…
Jason Bardyla wrote:
First off, I’m a Canadian so I’m sure many people will just want to skip my opinion anyway. Let it not be said that you were not warned.
That’s kind of funny! We gotta export you Canuks some self confidence! 😉
I have found the whole capture of Saddam as sort of a “so what?” senario. The invasion (let’s not call it anything less, shall we) was complete months ago and if the capture proves nothing else it’s that Saddam has not been in control for quite some time.
Actually, the capture of Saddam is a HUGE relief to the vast majority of Iraqis. Even out of power, Saddam cast a big shadow when he was still on the loose. He was the boogey man. Now he is not.
I have to say as someone not from the US those of you who support Bush look like idiots. This is a man who does not have command of the english language. When people offer well thought out points about his failures as a president you crawl into a corner putting your hands over your ears and shout “la, la, la, la”.
What make you look more stupid is that most people in your own country are making fun of you and you don’t get the joke. This blog is just an example, along with “The Daily Show” and Mike Moore (not just a kook but a No. 1 best selling kook).
Now there are some smart Bush supporters but the loud ones look like they will support anything with out reason.
Question do you know your country looks like evil dictators in Iraq? Do you know you entered into a war that the world did not support? Do you know you are ignoring the failing of your government at home? And finally are you planning on doing anything to fix your own home that sufferes worse problems than many third world places?
Finally if so many people are calling you dìçkš why don’t you believe them?
LMAO
What could be funnier than stirring up a hornet’s nest of ill-informed but oh so opinionated political partisan extremists and watching the high-larity?
Didn’t that Pavlov guy do a study on this kind of behavior??
“Finally if so many people are calling you dìçkš why don’t you believe them?”
I don’t know, James. But you and PAD don’t seem to believe it either.
FACT: Because of US embargos, an estimated 20,000 people a month have died in Iraq since the first gulf war. Most of which are children.
FACT: Ðìçk Cheny has retained stock in his old company Haliberton. He is set to make a windfall from this “act of democracy.”
FACT: The weapons Iraq had in the first gulf war, and the second as well, were given to them by the United States to help them combat Iran in the 80’s. Meanwhile the US also gave weapons to Iran, only in secret.
FACT: Upon realizing that weapons of mass destruction wouldn’t be found, and that Iraq presented no clear and present threat to the United States of America, it became a mission of toppling Saddam Hussein – a man that many Americans mistakenly believe had something to do with 9-11.
FACT: It is bizarre that the US would go after this dictator when historically the United States has been known to topple democracies and set up dicatorships in its place. The Shaw of Iran was placed in power by the US, for example. In fact is is company policy for many American corporations to deal with dictatorships because “they provide a more stable form of government.” In fact, Shell has supplied dictatorships with machine guns to quell rebellions.
FACT: While we go after Saddam Hussein for his crimes against humanity, we ignore the government of El Salvadore (which we empowered) which has government sanctioned death squads that roam the streets and kill HOMELESS CHILDREN because they negatively effect tourism.
FACT: Speaking of crimes against humanity, there are an estimated 30 million slaves in the world – including 600,000 new slaves smuggled into the US each year (typically young girls who become child prostitutes) and we have never declared our intentions of putting a stop to THAT either.
So basically… tell me again why we went after Saddam? Tell me again why we had to stop HIS crimes against humanity, but none of the others in the world, some of which are much worse?
So Jim Bumbo, I say to you that there is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with overthrowing facsist dictators, and in fact I SINCERELY HOPE we overthrow ALL of them and replace them with GENUINE democracies.
But until then, targeting Saddam is hypocracy and for many reasons not involving “the freedom of the Iraqi people.” Have a good night.
Finally if so many people are calling you dìçkš why don’t you believe them?
Soooo….if the prevailing political winds begin to blow against you we can expect to see you just abandon your positions to follow the majority. Wow.
Works in High School, if being part of the popular kids is your goal in life. Doesn’t do so much in the grown up world. But thanks for sharing.
Bravo to PAD for a razor-sharp piece of satire that hits the target dead smack in the center.
Actually, he hit the target a good deal left of center.
CJA
FACT: Because of US embargos, an estimated 20,000 people a month have died in Iraq since the first gulf war. Most of which are children.
When you start off your post with an untruth, it makes me ignore the rest. Thank you for playing. Please come again.
FACT: Because of US embargos, an estimated 20,000 people a month have died in Iraq since the first gulf war. Most of which are children.
FACT: The dictator had enough capital to purchase and procure the apropriate food and supplies for the health and care of the population of his country. Instead, he chose to build palaces and live in luxury while his people starved.
FACT: The Presidents of the United States of America, starting with the 41st (President George Herbert Walker Bush), continuing with the 42nd (William Jefferson Clinton), and ending with President George W. Bush (# 43), have not been obligated by any law to insure that the dictator of Iraq uses his allowed capital in a responsible way. Between the first Gulf War and the last Gulf War it hasn’t been up to an American President whether an Iraqi lives or dies.
No embargo on Iraq for the last ten years has created conditions which make it impossible for those citizens to live relatively healthy lives.
FACT: The weapons Iraq had in the first gulf war, and the second as well, were given to them by the United States to help them combat Iran in the 80’s. Meanwhile the US also gave weapons to Iran, only in secret.
The majority of the weaponry that Iraq used in the Gulf War was sold to them by the Soviets, not the Americans. They used outdated Soviet tanks, and flew MiGs against us. They weren’t equipped with American vehicles and weaponry, at least to any significant degree.
FACT: Upon realizing that weapons of mass destruction wouldn’t be found, and that Iraq presented no clear and present threat to the United States of America, it became a mission of toppling Saddam Hussein – a man that many Americans mistakenly believe had something to do with 9-11.
I’m still not certain that is a mistake. I’ve heard and read too much to dismiss the possibility outright.
Since when has anybody realized that weapons of mass destruction won’t be found? That involves a good deal of intelligence to ascertain the certainty of such a dogmatic statement. What I mean is…. to make such a statement you have to 100% freaking know what the heck is in and on every parcel of land in Iraq (which is a godlike ability that’s not even within the powers of American, Russian, Israeli, Chinese, or any military intelligence unit on earth).
I have to say as someone not from the US those of you who support Bush look like idiots.
I have to say as someone who is an American that you can put on a blouse and skirt and prance around like a sugar-plum faerie in your front yard… and I won’t ever care.
This is a man who does not have command of the english language.
Back in 2000, when it was time to decide whether Bush being unqualified to teach high school english mattered, the majority of Americans decided that it didn’t (seriously…. I’m certain that the majority of the people who voted against him actually decided to do it for an altogether different and less petty reason).
When people offer well thought out points about his failures as a president you crawl into a corner putting your hands over your ears and shout “la, la, la, la”.
Thank you for your well-informed description of what I do. Your intellgence capacity rivals that of Israel. You should be hired by the Mossad, quickly, before a rival agency snatches you up.
Frankly, rather than an insult I’d be more impressed if you gave an genuine “well thought out” argument, rather than a leftist blanket statement.
Finally if so many people are calling you dìçkš why don’t you believe them? I believe some of them. I also know that it’s okay to be one if you are in my position… that is… crusading for truth and justice.
What make you look more stupid is that most people in your own country are making fun of you and you don’t get the joke.
I get the joke; I just don’t think it’s funny.
The Daily Show makes fun of everybody and is non-partison satire. Micheal Moore is an intelligent guy who lacks a consistent political philosophy and writes leftist propaganda because it makes him a lot of money.
do you know your country looks like evil dictators in Iraq?
Blanket statement. Specify terms.
Do you know you entered into a war that the world did not support?
Define “the world”.
Do you know you are ignoring the failing of your government at home?
If there’s an election year in 2004, then our government isn’t failing.
And finally are you planning on doing anything to fix your own home that sufferes worse problems than many third world places?
The dish-washer is full and I’m out of detergent. My gosh, you are right!
I love playing these games! Let’s do more!
CJA
Blue Spider wrote:
>>If there’s an election year in 2004, then our government isn’t failing.<<
That really depends on if we can count on the new voting machines to deliver an accurate count, doesn’t it?
Rob
This is a man who does not have command of the english language.
“Back in 2000, when it was time to decide whether Bush being unqualified to teach high school english mattered, the majority of Americans decided that it didn’t (seriously…. I’m certain that the majority of the people who voted against him actually decided to do it for an altogether different and less petty reason).”
Actually Al Gore recieved the popular vote.
Do you know you are ignoring the failing of your government at home?
“If there’s an election year in 2004, then our government isn’t failing.”
If Bush is reelected it is.
I can cite sources on the 20,000 death count that has occurred in Iraq since the embargos/weekly bombings have begun.
Can you cite sources to the contrary?
Kurt,
You were obviously against the embargo against South Africa as well?
\\ Do you dislike Bush so badly that it has blinded you to how much worse Saddam was as a tyrant?
What happens if we end up finally getting Osama? Will you also condemn that? \\
Do you have such blind faith in Bush that anybody he says is the bad guy, no matter how much he lies to make it “true”, it has to be somebody we go after?
Amazing how Saddam is part of the “war on terror” when he wasn’t terorrizing anybody outside his own country.
Amazing how bin Laden is “no longer important”.
Amazing how a country that represents a genuine threat to our survival in N. Korea is ignored because, *gasp* just maybe Bush doesn’t have the balls to actually stand up to somebody on equal footing as us.
Can the supporters of Bush cite any evidence of the links between 9/11 and the Saddam Bathist Government of Iraq? None so far have been found. Even President Bush said there was not a link, while others in his cabinet like Cheney continued the myth. Yes most everyone, me, PAD, and most of the Democrats and liberals ARE glad that Saddam is captured and out of power.
BUT we happen to differ in opinions on HOW things should have gone down. At the time we were already in the midst of a war. One that we haven’t and most likely will never finish. Saddam and Iraq seem much more like diversions that were given false shadeings of 9/11 to take our minds off the “missing” Osama. None of us here wish harm on the Iraqi people, none of us wish harm on our soldiers and none of should have any illusions on the fact that war is anything but harm on either.
PAD’s point wasn’t that the GOP are being idiots, only that the scary liberals aren’t speaking up against what is going on. That the GOP (if it wasn’t one of their own in the chair) would not have stood for the things that have happened, that it is specifically the bipartisinship (both imagined and real by both parties) that is spinning this country out of control.
And as for “Gore’s hatred of the internal combustion engine”… He does infact drive a regular gasoline driven engine… while he may not like them, he uses them, so i’m sure he’d use them if he were president. Its the practicality and the tools, not the ideology that win a fight.
wow. I’m impressed. PAD saying something against the almighty powerful Gore??? Raise the flag!
Gore is a weasle and anyone that doesn’t see through his self-serving adjenda is too blinded by their own party to care. Bush will win because of Gore’s support for Howard Dean, he just stabbed his party in the back and the Dems will lose because of it, mark my words.
Gore didn’t seem to mind when Clinto bombed Iraq when he was prez. That seemed ok for the Dems to do at the time huh? We ended up in these wars because of his failure and Clinton’s failure to do anything about OBL and Iraq for 8 years he was screwing an intern in the White House but that was ok too because Clinto could do no wrong.
Gotta love it.
“FACT: Because of US embargos, an estimated 20,000 people a month have died in Iraq since the first gulf war. Most of which are children.
FACT: The dictator had enough capital to purchase and procure the apropriate food and supplies for the health and care of the population of his country. Instead, he chose to build palaces and live in luxury while his people starved.”
Yes, yes, he did. And that’s part of the problem. They KNEW he was doing it, and they KNEW people were suffering great hardships, but did nothing constructive about it for over a decade.
Pretty much as is the case with North Korea, come to think of it, where people are in far worse shape, by all accounts, yet we aren’t invading there, are we?
It’s funny, Peter.
In MY bizarro world, Gore is president, he paid attention to the information that was handed to him by the Clinton administration back in January 2001 instead of throwing it back in their face.
And right now, I’m looking out the window thinking about booking a reservation for dinner at Windows On the World.
But, ya know, that’s just me.
Oh, and Osama was caught without firing a single shot and the GOP can’t understand why we wanted him so badly since, y’know, he never really succeeded in anything he was plotting.
And as for 9-11-01? Well, I slept peacefully as my NJ Transit bus took me into the Port Authority that day and I went to work, without suffering anxiety attacks about ridiculous scenarios like jet planes flying into skyscrapers.
Blue Spider–absolutely brilliant.
Peter–absoulutely witless entry. I am a big fan of your published work (both comics and full fiction) and even occasionally find your blog insightful. This entry is beneath you.
PAD’s point is well taken. The Republicans do tend to do a complete about-face on matters depending on who the attacks are being directed at.
Remember that the GOP spent the entire eight years Clinton was in office attacking him on every available front. Then, when Bush is in office, the mere mention of criticism is “political hate speech” and is deemed “unpatriotic”. Questioning the Commander during a time of war is borderline blasphemy. And yet, the GOP never ceased its attacks on Clinton, even while his armed forces were engaged in battles all over the planet.
Eight years were spent trying to subpoena every single document of any kind that Clinton ever touched. When Bush is in office they wave the flag of “Executive Privilege” at the slightest glance into their inner-workings.
And for all the talk that the Dems would act the same way, well, where is the demand from the left for an impeachment of the President for using intelligence known to be false to justify the War? Clinton lied about getting oral favors from an intern; Bush lied about the reasons for starting a War. Which is worse?
And while we’re discussing misdirection and hypocrisy, why is it that we caught the wrong guy? The guy who never did anything to the US? The guy who we equipped with weapons (both conventional and chemical/biological) and were perfectly OK with for the first 20 years of his reign?
Game of shells? You’re dámņëd right. Saddam is no worse than a dozen other dictators in the world. The crimes he commits against his own people are no more horrible than what we see elsewhere in the world. His weapons programs were only hearsay and conjecture while other hostile countries, such as North Korea, have openly demonstrated nuclear weapons programs in progress, and go ignored.
Whether it was for oil, for PR, or to pursue an old grudge, this entire conflict has been bull. And now we’ve captured the guy who we sent running when we invaded his country for crimes other than those we went in for.
I sure am glad that Bush isn’t into nation building.
David Levin:
Nice try, but the INS during Clinton’s presidency allowed almost all of the 9/11 hijackers saty in the country on expired VISAs, and attend flight schools.
At least one was reported to be worthy of attention, and the INS under Clinton, did nothing, ignoring his own intelligence.
Like it or not, the attacks of 9/11/2001 would have happened if we had Bush in the White House, Gore, Nader, Mickey Mouse, or Zippy the Pin head. The attack was planned. It took place, as it would have anyway.
The 20/20 hindsight being employed to demonize Bush’s handling of intelligence prior to 9/11/2001 is just that. Hindsight.
In hindsight, the US should never have helped Germany after WW1. Had the US washed its hands of Germany after the Kaiser was dealt with, we might not have had Hitler and the Third Reich. It’s easy to say things like that.
But even when given intelligence reports about terrorists flying planes into buildings, the Clinton administration dismissed it as unlikely to ever happen. Who knew?
Ben:
“Actually Al Gore recieved the popular vote.”
Here’s a link for you Ben. Take a look, and tell me if you find fault with the facts presented therein (I know the link says “right wing“, but the facts I refer to are linked within the article to distinctly non-right wing sources):
http://rightwingnews.com/john/tantrum.php
If Bush is reelected it [democracy] is [failing].
No, if he is re-elected, it is NOT failing. That’s how democracies work. Now, if Bush declares himself ruler until Michael Jackson starts making sense, then democracy has failed.
But if he is voted into office, if you like him or not, if you voted for him or not, democracy has worked.
Kurt:
Is that you, my favorite Green Party punching bag?
PAD and others:
It is unlikely that you would have seen such a reaction to recent events if Gore were president. The GOP simply doesn’t conduct itself in that manner, nor do most conservatives.
Look at the current state of the democratic party. There is so much infighting, and mud being tossed, the only unifying theme of the candidates is criticism of Bush (and in some cases, outright hatred).
Nothing positive, all negative. I have no idea what any of the candidates are FOR, just that they are AGAINST Bush. No real principles.
How to deal with irritatingly good news
By Janet Daley
(Filed: 17/12/2003)
What To Say If:
Saddam refuses to co-operate with his interrogators.
The arrest of this man is a sideshow. He clearly knows nothing about the current state of resistance and has played no role in the planning of insurgency. His trial will simply be an exercise in vengeance with no constructive outcome for Iraq.
Saddam sings like a canary, identifying the perpetrators of insurgency.
Saddam is obviously being tortured by his American captors. Or else, they are lying about his testimony and justifying their own persecution of innocent Iraqis on the basis of his alleged “confession”. (Note to broadcasters: these hypotheses need not be stated baldly. They can simply be hinted at or implied by leading questions and incredulous facial expressions.)
Saddam admits to having had weapons of mass destruction all along and gives a detailed account of a) where they can be found, b) how and when he destroyed them.
If a) then switch the focus immediately to the role that America (with particular reference to Donald Rumsfeld personally) played in the past in allowing Saddam to develop these arms. Avoid if possible any tactless references to the much more recent contributions of our European partners in building Saddam’s armoury. If b), float the idea that Saddam is lying – simply telling his captors what it would suit their political purposes to hear, in the hopes of cutting a deal for himself.
If Saddam’s trial is conducted by Iraq without outside interference.
This is nothing more than a kangaroo court: a lynch mob bent on tribal vendetta, licensed and abetted by America, which has, typically, waged an irresponsible war and then walked away, washing its hands of the consequences.
If Saddam’s trial is conducted under American and British supervision.
This makes a mockery of the hope that Iraq is becoming a self-determining democracy. It is now nothing more than a neo-colonial satellite of American imperialism. The United States has, typically, set up a puppet government in Iraq in order to establish control over the region.
If Saddam’s trial, by whatever agency, produces previously unknown evidence of crimes against his own people that is so horrific that it shames those who resisted his forcible removal.
No one (certainly not you) ever said they thought Saddam was a hero, or that they wanted him restored to power. They just wanted international law to be permitted to take its own good time to decide how and when he should be stopped.
If the arrest, trial and possible execution of Saddam results in a free and democratic Iraq.
This is irrelevant to the War on Terror. Iraq had no links with al-Qa’eda. Bush and Blair will never defeat terrorism until they catch Osama bin Laden.