(Sorry about the posting delay: We had lightning storms hereabouts last night, and I shut down the computer to avoid mishaps.)
Unusual episode: A series creating a pilot for itself as what would be, effectively, a new series. If “Angel” continues, possibilities galore. If it doesn’t, it’s not an unreasonable last episode (although the lost potential will sting.) Spoilers follow:
“Who’s Conner?”
Seems unfair that everyone else in the series, with the exception of “Angel,” is spared having to remember a character who–except for brief flashes here and there–was the single most irritating and unsympathetic character in the Whedon-verse. I mean, let’s face it, you cared more about the villains who were trying to kill Buffy in any given season than you did about our hero’s son. Both Conner and Holtz came across as characters who were better in concept than execution. But the latter’s dead and the former has the happy ending his father likely will never get. Indeed, some of the most relaxed, natural acting we saw from Conner was at the end of this episode, as if a weight had been lifted from him. It’s possible he didn’t like the character any more than anyone else.
That aside, the episode worked very well for me. “We give up, you win” says the chick with the slashed throat. And it was great to see the innovative displays of the show’s humor, such as the dead silence for the entire first act until Tim Minear’s credit went past, at which point they started talking. You have to respect a show that literally forces you to read the opening credits because there’s nothing else going on.
This is a series that began life as a noir, helpless person of the week show, but through slow evolution (and not without growing pains) has developed into something very different. Now we see our heroes literally seduced into a situation that could literally take them global. They’d no longer be limited to small cases on the dark streets of LA. They could go anywhere, be involved with anything. It’s an intriguing notion. They could literally be the IMF of the supernatural. It works for me. I’d like to see it. Particularly because, unlike the IMF where you didn’t have to worry that the Secretary was going to sell out Mr. Phelps for personal gain, we’ll always be wondering if another shoe is going to drop on Angel and Company.
Only question: What the heck was up with Gunn and the whole cat thing? But even that didn’t bother me. If they’d played ultra-weird with everyone, it would have been annoying. But since it was just Gunn, I’m willing to chalk it up to an open mystery that will be addressed next season.
Presuming, of course, the WB realizes the potential for what they’ve got on their hands.
PAD
• 
I think Dawn is far worse than Connor. Yes, Connor was annoying but everyone on the show recognized that, rather than scrambling around trying to cater to him or protect him (a la Dawn).
DB’s performance in this episode was quite good. The pain in his face when he sees what his son is doing was intense, and the last shot, when he sees just how wonderful a life Connor will have simply because he’s no longer in Angel’s life, was heartbreaking. It underscores the fact that Angel will never know that kind of peace, simply because of what he is, and we’ve seen that he wants just that (the dream sequence in the season opener).
I’ve watched Season 1 on DVD and I still sort of prefer the original format — in how different it was from Buffy. I like what the show has grown into, but — much like Buffy — it sort of got way too insular this season and you lost track of the innocents Angel was supposed to be helping. Whatever happens next year, I hope the focus on that doesn’t change.
Perfect Line:
“The offer of a lifetime… except for mine, that is…”
The Wes/Lila thing was beautiful. And I really thought it was a great ending of the season. Not anticlimactic. It quickly finished up a storyline, and continued to ask the question: Did we do good or bad in killing off Jasmine?
Loved it.
Minear did a good job.
Now what’s next for the Wheedon-verse?
I mean, I hope Angel comes back… but do we need another spin-off?
And if we get it, will it be a Jefferson’s or an After M*A*S*H?
Just wondering.
Travis
PAD
I have to admit that I loved the way that the writers have evolved Gunn’s character from “muscle” to a thinking articulate hero. I hope that the visit to the white room will lead Gunn to have an larger role as part of this ensemble.
Regards:
WSJ3
As unlikeable as Conner has been, I thought it was a nice touch that Minear didn’t try to make us like him all that much in the finale. In the Whedon-verse tradition, we see Conner with the cop, talking him down from suicide. Looks like Conner has perhaps started to heal and maybe find a purpose in restoring some peace to the suddenly peace-starved world. That’s what would happen on some other guy’s show. Then, of course, he snaps and beats the cop to a pulp.
At best, we can pity Conner, but I don’t think we were ever meant to like him. As Jasmine used him to bring herself into “our” world, the writers used him to put Angel through the emotional wringer yet again. And Angel is often at his best when he’s moody.
Bravo to Minear for not trying to force Conner into the framework for the (please let there be a) new season.
Matt
Recent comments from various places online have suggested that James Marsters might possibly bring the Spike character over to ANGEL next season (if there is one). At a recent convention, Marsters reportedly expressed doubt that this could happen, due to the fact that ANGEL’s budget doesn’t run to adding another regular cast member. Well, at this juncture, it sure looks like Vincent Kartheiser (sp?) won’t be back as Connor, and even Charisma Carpenter’s return would seem to be less than certain. I find myself wondering about how Spike would fit in to this “new format”…particularly when you consider that both Gunn and Wes are there to fill the badass role. Not saying there wouldn’t be room for Spike–I’ve always thought that he and Angel sparked off each other well, and especially now that Spike has a soul, the differences and similarities between the two characters would make for an interesting contrast.
As for Cordelia, I’m honestly not sure I want her back at this point. Last season, she was starting to show real promise as the “earth mother” figure of the show, but this was abruptly curtailed by the “higher being/not really Cordy after all” arc, with the result that Charisma hasn’t really gotten to play her character at all this season. And it’s a pretty safe bet that Cordy wouldn’t see eye-to-eye with Team Angel’s decision to join up with W&H. (Of course, that might make for some interesting plot developments…)
Then again, this’ll all be moot if the WB does not announce ANGEL’s fifth season next Tuesday…
I must be one those rare people that liked Conner. No I didn’t sympathize with him. He was a villian. Sort of.
He was the Dr.Smith of the cast. He was always going to cause problems, but they could not get rid of him – because he was Angel’s son.
I will miss what he brought to the cast next year – though I expect that internal strife can come from the organization of Wolfram and Hart now.
A few things:
1)I thought this episode was awesome. There’s so much potential in the new direction set-up that it would be a shame if the show wasn’t renewed, and yet it feels like a logical next step for the gang. Running W+H would give Angel the power to do things he could never do as a lowly P.I.. He could not change Conner, but he could change others.
2) that was a nice bit of set-up for Angel’s appearance on Buffy next week. He’s got to deliver some important files and some kind of amulet. hmmm…I hope this doen’t mean that Angel is only making a brief cameo stop in sunnydale.
3)Loved the scene where they’re slowly about to get into the limo and Lorne is already there, chatting it up with the driver.
4) About Gunn and the White room w/the panther: I think that the panther may have been some illusion – an embodiemenr of his fears/suspicions brought on by his subconcious. He is going to have the job that the little girl had, which is why the gang remarked on how diffrent he seemed when he returned.
While it’s certainly not a sure thing, over on aicn they’re saying that on USA Today’s “bubble” poll, Angel got the highest amount of “heck yeah, keep it on the air” votes ever..
I thought it was a great launching point for a brand new season. Hopefully the WB will gives us a Season 5. If not, it worked out well as a ending of sorts.
I’m a librarian and I want that library! I want my books to appear at the command of my voice. “Peter David. Incredible Hulk. All issues.” Voila!
What’s interesting is if they will be coming back – now that Connor looks like he’s gone through a Siege Perilous of sorts (from the X-Men) – they might be able to bring in a Buffy character as well. James Marsters mentioned at the recent Cleveland Buffy Vulkon that having a Buffy cast member join a show that’s been on for 4 years already is a possibility but unlikely since there might not be a lot of $$$ in the budget. Well, we all shouted out “Kill Connor!” so maybe we’ve gotten our wish (of sorts) and WB will be able to afford to bring on Buffy guest stars or a permanent cast member. Cross your fingers and see what next week brings when they annouce the WB schedule.
They could literally be the IMF of the supernatural.
My first reaction to this was, “The International Monetary Fund of the supernatural? Oh, that OTHER IMF…”
Also want to echo SER’s props for Boreanaz in this episode — he was masterful in the scene in the Sporting Goods Store of the Ðámņëd. Here’s hoping for a fifth season…
Mike Pawuk wrote:
James Marsters mentioned at the recent Cleveland Buffy Vulkon that having a Buffy cast member join a show that’s been on for 4 years already is a possibility but unlikely since there might not be a lot of $$$ in the budget.
Umm, didn’t Marsters officially join the cast of Buffy in the fifth season?
But the thing that makes me think there would be room for him is that there would likely have to be several recurring characters next season, primarily W&H employees. Team Angel will have to interact with someone at the firm, possibly the four “escorts” we were introduced to yesterday. Reucrring characters, even minor ones, can be expensive because as I understand it, the actors are often paid extra to make sure they don’t take other jobs in the interim and are available when they’re needed.
Plus it would be nice to see Lilah be a regular character, since she seems to be the conduit to the “senior partners.” Granted, that could throw the show’s collar and kerchief budget into trouble…
[Connor] was the single most irritating and unsympathetic character in the Whedon-verse.
Oh, I don’t know about that. I think most of the SITs give him a run for his money in that department. *cough*KENNEDY!
OK, what is the IMF? ‘Cause International Monetary Fund was kind of what popped into my head too…
Just fanboy musing here, but with W&H’s resources, Wes could strike a deal with one Rupert Giles to revive the Watchers’ Council, either basing them out of LA or in London again with W&H funding. Wes would presumably trust Giles (a lot more than that ponce last night) to set up a new and improved Council that could act as a check on W&H in case they get corrupted…that allows for Anthony Stewart Head to get in a couple of Angel guest shots, and maybe (finally!) set up that Ripper show on BBC…
IMF stands for Impossible Missions Force. They were the folks in the Mission: Impossible series.
Okay, I only recently resumed watching Angel. Could somebody explain the white room and little girl references and which episodes they were in?
I *really* liked this episode. I didn’t like Connor either, but the poor kid did deserve a happy life. I’ve seen several fen refer to him as the anti-Dawn — she was the kid magically written into continuity, where he was magically written out. Somebody also made the point that this is the *second* time Angel has rewritten history to benefit one of his loved ones such that he’s the only one who remembers the other timeline. Angst. Angst. Angst. Of course, this means he’ll have to keep his whining to himself since nobody else knows what he’s talking about.
As I write this, I’m suddenly wondering what exactly happened to Connor. Was he born into the happy family (TM) or adopted by them? Was his soul somehow put into a “normal” boy or is Connor still actually Angel’s son with extra powers, even if he and his adoptive family are ignorant of them? The reason I’m asking is that depending where/how they reset the timeline, Darla could still be alive…
Finally, one thought on what Gunn got in the white room. Each of the AI team were offered something they truly desired — Fred gained a lab, Wes a library, Lorne the celebrities, Angel help for his son and more power to do good. So what was Gunn’s heart’s desire??
I think that’s been mentioned somewhat in past discussions — he’s been feeling outclassed. He’s not the smartest or the toughest or the best fighter. He’s not special in any way. Maybe now he is… Fred said he looked taller. Maybe what he’s getting out of this deal is stature.
Good wrap-up to a good season. Connor finally goes full tilt into being a villain. One of the impressions I got in that final scene was that it was that type of grand drama conflict: Angel wasn’t just giving up Connor so Connor could have a happy life but so that he or Connor wouldn’t have to kill the other. Another interesting irony (maybe I’m wrong here. A lot of times people point out plot points and I end up going, Oh, yeah, I forgot they covered that…) is that Angel just got done bringing down Jasmine because she offered them “world peace” but at the price of free will. Was Connor consulted about the paradise Angel placed him in?
And by the way, does this mean that, yes, the prophecy about the father killing the son was once-and-for-all not true?
Last question: Do we even know that Connor is gone? Angel sure seemed gone to me at the end of Season 3? Season 4? when Buffy killed him. Sure I knew they could bring him back but I thought it would weaken the impact of the entire season. Instead they pulled it off. Anyone heard anything from Vincent Kartheiser or ME?
I think Connor was a bit of a problem child in the ME universe. I think he was supposed to be “Angel’s” Spike, a character who wasn’t bogged down by the others’ moralities but who kept his place in the group by being so tough. Unfortunately, Connor didn’t (and couldn’t) have Spike’s “street” credibility so having him strut around and act tough looked as ludicrous as it does with real teenagers because they’re kids. Still, I like the idea behind characters like him and Spike because I like the idea that someone can be someone you want on your side who does the right thing, even if that person isn’t particularly likable. The problem is that once that character catches on for being untamed, it’s only a matter of time before they become overexposed and their “sensitive” side comes out as they are humanized (See: Wolverine or Spike this season on BTVS. What happened to the guy who said the gang “Now I know this is dangerous and I don’t like any of you but – Wait a minute, that sounds like pretty good reasons not to get involved.” and actually walked away?)
Speaking of Spike, I’m of two minds about him joining “Angel.” If they’re going to play him against Angel, we’ve already seen good hero/bad hero with Faith and Buffy. On the other hand, Angel seemed to be a sort of mentor to Angel as a vampire (not that Spike would have admitted it but when we would see Spike, Dru, Angel and Darla, Angel seemed to be top dog) so seeing him be a mentor to being a re-ensouled vampire could be interesting. Still, I think Spike would work better as a guest star.
Not to re-start the snarling, but bring on the Bad Girls! I see now what women mean about being drawn to the bad boys with Lila’s turn in the spotlight. Smart, funny, ambitious, strong-willed and sexy as all get-out… how could Wes possibly be hung up on Fred with Lila around? (Although I think Lila said it already with “little Fred” being a damsel in distress that Wes could rescue while Lila, well, tigresses don’t need to be rescued, do they?) I hope she’s coming along for the new premise and I hope they don’t soften her up.
I mentioned this before in “Buffy” threads but a gossip columnist on the E! Web site said that she’s heard from three good sources that “Angel” is a lock for renewal. If that’s true, I’m sure ME staff will be talking about the show’s new direction as the new season approaches. I’ll be curious to hear why they think this revamp is an improvement. Not that I think it won’t be but I’m just curious what their logic was.
Also, I agree with PAD’s interest in exploring the possibilities although I wonder if the show’s budget will really allow them to do the worldwide thing.
For those who seem not to know either the original series, nor (horrors) the Tom Cruise I wanta be James Bond version, IMF means “Impossible Mission Force.” But since the daughter of two characters on the original Mission Impossible plays the part of Drusilla, I kinda like Peter’s idea.
Loved the episode, especially the Gunn/cat and Wesley scenes and Lorne in the limo, but the whole forgetting Connor thing left me wondering about a few things:
1.) What about Sayjon (or however you spell it)? According to prochecies and fate, Connor’s going to kill him. Does he get a get out of jail free card now (except for the fact that he’s still, you know, jailed)?
2.) Won’t Connor erasion cause some holes in their memory? He was a pretty big part of things for the last year, love him or hate him. I can see Wesley next season turn to Lilah and go “Wait a minute. Why did I leave the group and start sleeping with you?”
Minor points, don’t get me wrong, I’m glad that they put the Connor storyline to rest. As for why W&H would do this, I think they’re just trying a different tactic on Angel to get him on the dark side. Remember, power corrupts and all that, and put Angel at the head of a huge firm keeps him removed from the people he’s trying to protect and possibly his own humanity. Anyway, I think that’s what they’re going for. I hope we get to find out next season.
TK
This is going to be cross-over blog reply from the Buffy string to here. Kinda like Angel crossing over one last time to Buffy. The amulet and files that Angel has to bring over to the Buffy ‘verse should lay to rest any question of the fact that it will be the real Angel next week (Although the possibility could exist that the FIRST could still pose as Angel as well).
I thought the episode was real good. I like the format they are setting up but I agree that I miss the format of the first season (been watching the DVD). It was so simple then – only the three of them (Angel, Doyle, Cordy). I won’t go into it here as I have something written at Xyon’s Rambles. Feel free visit and comment if you wish. I am still working on it somewhat as I have to add my thought to the direction and the infinite possibilities that Angel has now.
Kudos to the person who replied in last weeks Angel string and said that it was the glass. Right on target.
I really thought the episode was well written – wrapped up the Conner problem (it was finally good to read PADs comments on Conner and to see that he was just as annoyed with the character as I was). Good ending for him. I should have seen it coming just before he beat the hëll out of the cop when he said the stuff about family. I sympathized with the character, but at the same time I wanted to slap him down. I am glad they wrapped up his character.
As for the question about whether or not Angel would only make a brief cameo – I think that question is layed to rest also. The fact that we saw the previews for next week and the stills on the web page about the finale prove both episodes. Even still, I don’t think that Angel would not help after he sees just how much of a dire situation it really has come down to.
As for the fate of Angel, I really think it will be renewed and we will be able see the new developments of the show play out.
Do I get her?
Xyon
What’s up with Gunn and the panther, you (and many other people on the Net, it seems) ask? Well, Joss Whedon has gone on record as being a fan of Marvel and of “Tomb of Dracula,” so it would not be a stretch to think that Gunn was at least partly inspired by Blade. And so now Gunn is going to become the Buffyverse’s version of the Black Panther–with a “panther god” as his totem and, I suspect, with enhanced physical prowess.
Loved the episode. Loads of potential for next season if there is one.
The new direction lends itself well to guest stars from Buffy — Angel and co. can just hire Willow or Giles or Spike to do jobs for them. They don’t even have to become a permanent part of the cast. Just when needed.
Glad Connor is gone.
I would like to see Gwen become a regular, especially if Cordy isn’t going to be around, which would be fine with me. The show needs at least one hot chick and she has great chemistry with Angel and Gunn.
This year Angel was the best show on TV. I’ve never been so excited to find out what happens next on a Television show. I’ve never been so impressed by surprises and story shifts. Just excellent stuff all season long.
I loved last night’s episode, bringing quite a close to what was basically a season that was still answering the problems from the season before. It didn’t hit me until last night, but almost nothing from this season was “new”. It was all dedicated for the most part to finishing the story started at the beginning of Season 3 (and I guess for that matter season 2). It’s nice to see the show go farther then Buffy, which tries to wrap things up neatly by the end of each season (from Joss Whedon).
My only dissapointment: Gwen Raiden. We got semi-closure from this character in the Gunn stand alone episode, but even that didn’t seem finished. I expected to see some sort of relationship form between the two beyond that episode, but alas no.
I hadn’t even thought about this being the second time history was rewritten with only Angel remembering the past… sucks to be him. 🙁
What happened with Gunn in the White Room? What’s going on with Cordy? What will the future bring for the new team at W&H?
Pleeeeease let there be a 5th season….
Regarding the prophecy, I think it may have been true after all. Consider, Connor’s life may have had to end before his new one began.
Remember the final moments of Connor’s fight with Angel. Angel seems to have dealt Connor a death blow: the position of Angel’s body in relation to Connor’s, the savagery with which Angel slashed the knife. The blade had to rip into Connor’s face or throat. Perhaps that was the condition of his deal with Lilah.
And so the prophecy was true after all: Angel kills his son, if only to give Connor a new life.
My theory about Connor is that when Tim Minear was handling more work on Angel (last season and at the end of this season), Connor was more interesting. PErhpas only Tim understood anything about him? It’s worth noting how little we were reminded of Connor’s hellish youth and adolescence, until the Jasmine arc. And that was around the time that Minear would have returned to Angel from Firefly.
Either way, I liked what was done with Connor the alst five weeks, and am quite happy that someone in the JossVerse gets a happy ending.
Another great ep. Everyone here has pretty much covered the bases on what happened so I’ll just say how much I enjoyed it.
Now, let’s just hope Buffy wraps up as nicely.
Bobby
Bobby Nash
Writer @ Large
1) Well the amulet should put an end to the idea that its the First and not Angel who’s in Buffy next week.
2) If the show comes back, I really hope they keep Lilah there. She’s just a fun addition, with more personality then most of the characters.
3)I’m figuring Gunn is now a Werepanther…that, or he was offered a roll in a Priest comic.
4)For what’s next, I’m still thinking a Faith series is in the cards…the odds of whatever series she signed up for working out aren’t good, and there’s a few dollars to be made milking the buffyverse a bit more.
James Marsters recently said at a convention that he would only appear on “Angel” if he were made a full cast member. He didn’t want to do a guest stint or a recurring role, because he didn’t want to continue bleaching his hair for a part-time or temporary job. He’s afraid the bleached hair would prevent him from getting other work.
As for the series renewal, a WB executive commented publically, a few months ago, that they wanted to renew the series, but that there were monetary issues. There are rumors circulating that Whedon is asking for more money for the show, as he did with “Buffy” a few years ago. Whedon has also hinted recently, in interviews, that he was confident it would return for a fifth season. If not on the WB, then somewhere else. I’m betting he has a deal worked out with UPN again.
this episode was great – the pacing was just primo. from the opening credit sequence that had me laughing hysterically at the awkwardness to the “offer of a lifetime” line that had me howling. i’m so glad she’s back. great actress in a great role.
i think the show has been fine the way it was presented in its format but i think this change really opens up new avenues that just couldn’t exist before.
Wesley trying to destroy the contract – great!! how very Wesley. this was the highlight for me.
as for Connor. he was a means to an end. a plot device if you will. i figured that out as soon as Cordy got pregnant. though contrived a bit, i think Charisma’s pregnancy prob played more into how this season played out than any of us will ever know. it took a second for me to catch onto Fred’s “Who’s Connor?” comment but in the end, i think it all worked out as Angel would have liked. thematically, i’d’ve preferred that Connor disappeared and we didn’t see his new life until sometime next season but given that we don’t know there’s even going to be a next season, i’ll let reality dictate a little of the plotline.
like i said, Charisma was out most of the season due to her baby. i AM ready for her to come back tho. As for James, he’s expressed interest in continuing his Spike character but Joss has said repeatedly that no decision has been made on if or when any Buffy characters would migrate over. plus i think it would be overkill to have the only two vampires in the world with a soul on the same show. and i’d prefer the group not get any bigger.
hey, by the way – what ever happened to Electro Woman? you know, that girl who always got hit by lightning
now i have no reason to watch TV anymore – no Angel, no Buffy, no Farscape. what’s there to live for? oh yeah, Oreos.
God I love this show.
Fred grabbing the uzi? Hilarious.
Lorne in the entire episode: funneir than God.
Lilah: Please please please stay a regular!!!!!!! I love this charactr. I love Wes and his interaction with this character! I love Stephanie Romanov’s evil seductive smile! Staaaaaaaay!
I can say that I have no idea what the panther and Gunn meant. I know it means power of some sort. I like the totem idea, but maybe Gunn has some inner potential we never knew about before. Plus, we don’t have Cordy around anymore for visions, so maybe Gunn is gonna become the low jack of evil? Whatever it is, it will be so dámņ cool.
Wes is Batman. I like Wes as Batman. Wes is the freaking man.
I also like the idea someone posted about hiring outside help: namely Willow and Giles and such. It’s kind of like Heroes For Hire, but with more morals (well, at least I hope so, who knows with the cool new direction). Can anyone else just picture a cool scene where various Buffyverse characters get hired to pull off a huge job? I can, and it is a sweet dream.
Can’t wait for season 5.
So here’s a question for you:
Cordelia Chase and Sydney Bristow. Cliffhangers separated at birth?
I was thinking about the last time Cordy was Cordy, she was just realizing that she loved Angel and she was expecting to meet with him. I would say that she probably had a good idea that he felt the same way.
But do we have any reason to think Cordy remembers anything that happened to her this season? And does Angel still feel the same way about her? He saw her having sex with his son and other worse things. (Of course if anyone should be sympathetic to what it’s like to have someone see you-not-you doing evil things and judging you for them, it would Angel right?)
So isn’t there every possibility that Cordelia will wake up a year later and the man she loves will have moved on past her… just like Sydney?
My cable went out during the scene where Angel was talking to Lylia about seeing Connor, and came back when Angel sees Connor in his new life. Can someone enlighten me as to what exactly happened? Did W&H rewrite history? Does the rest of AI know about Connor at all or just not his fate? Thanks.
I think that the panther was Gunn. He’s going to be the sleek, cool, stylish cat of the group. Kinda like he was with Gwen it his solo episode.
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Mild Buffy spoilers…
I have read that Angel leaves sunnydale in the second act of the final episode. So I guess well get about as much Angel on Buffy as we used to in seasons 1-3. 🙂
I’m intrigued. Not just by Gunn’s experience but who knows how much we missed of each of the encounters? My guess is that Fred probably has nothing special to hide. Wesley might, who know what else he might have found in the files. Now Gunn? My first thought was the cat somehow embodied the soul of his sister who became a vamp. But who knows?
If the show doesn’t come back I think I think I would miss Cordelia being in those last eps the most (conscious I mean). To have the universe close without Cordy in the last few eps would suck.
Tobin
-tpl
Just wanted to mention that I disagree with those who say that Angel and Co. could be using Wolfram and Hart’s resources for good ends.
It occurred to me almost immediately that just after getting rid of Jasmine and the Powers’ That Be’s attempt to create peace on Earth, Wolfram and Hart steps a day or so later to offer them the opportunity to replace her, but on a smaller scale.
I was also reminded of the Hyena in the early Buffy episode that possessed Xander when Gunn was in the White room. What I didn’t recall was that Gunn and Fred were no longer an item. I thought they made up a few episodes ago, just before the Gwen Raiden episode. Needless to say, I was shocked by his actions with Gwen, and then when he was trying to be “smooth” with the woman in last night’s episode, right in front of Fred (who was holding an automatic rifle).
I agree that Conner’s fate creates a mess of the last 2 seasons, if it was time that was tampered with, and not memories. For example, Angel was given a soul, according to Skip, for the express purpose of having a child with Darla, who would, in turn, have a child with Cordelia, to produce Jasmine. I would hope the writers would have enough sense to avoid this and just say that eveyone’s memories but Angel’s were altered.
It was funny recognizing Fred’s new assistant as the vampire who was sired by Spike and gave Buffy the Psychology-speech from an early BTVS episode this season. Maybe they were “twins”.
I like Wesley, but speaking of IMF, the scene where the grappeling hook comes out of his sleeve was more like an episode of Inspector Gadget.
Scott
I liked this episode, except for the fact that it made NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.
Here’s what we know: Connor is living with a Happy Family someplace far away from Angel. The rest of Team Angel has no memory that he ever existed.
I conclude from this that Wolfram and Hart retro-fitted history, and Connor was raised not by Holtz or Angel but by the happy people far away.
The thing is, if that’s true, most of the major events of the past year never happened, which means:
-Connor never slept with Cordelia.
-Jasmine was never born.
-Cordelia never went into a coma.
And if Connor was the biological son of the happy family, it gets even more confusing, especially if Jasmine’s birth was dependent on a son of two vampires to father her:
-Wesley never betrayed Angel.
-Wesley never slept with Lilah.
-The girl in the White Room never died. Lilah never died. The members of Wolfram and Hart never died.
Which means, basically, nothing in this episode happened the way it happened.
We could, I suppose, come up with some sort of after-the-fact retcon: Connor was born to Angel and Darla. Wesley read the FATHER-WILL-KILL-THE-SON prophecy, kidnapped Connor, and sneaked him into an adoption service. Cordelia went bad, found Connor at his happy home, and seduced him. Jasmine was born and then defeated, presumably without Connor’s help. But all that requires such a messy reworking of the facts, I don’t really buy it. That alternate history would have changed the group more than it apparently has.
Am I the only person bothered by this?
And am I the only person bothered by the sudden change in Connor’s personality? We’re being asked to believe that Angel was such a bad father that Connor, without warning, turned into a terrorist attacking innocent people. And that Angel–who holds redemption as one of his fundamental principles–wouldn’t try everything he could to reach Connor, and repair their relationship, before he gave up and opted to never see his son again–not to mention rewrite the entire history of the world.
Am I missing something?
–Daniel M.
now i have no reason to watch TV anymore – no Angel, no Buffy, no Farscape. what’s there to live for? oh yeah, Oreos.
Speaking of Farscape, Ben Browder was a guest star on CSI: Miami Monday night. He played a bouncer at a club which caught fire during a d.j.’s pyrtotechnic display, much like the Great White incident in New England a month or so ago.
The nameof the d.j. – D.J. Scorpius.
Matt
Personally enjoyed the hëll out of the episode, for a few reasons:
1. I just enjoy Stephanie Romanov. Her and Wesley are great to watch together, and Wesley’s attempt to free her was wonderfully done.
2. Good too see fun Gunn back.
3. Fred with an assault rifle (definitely not an Uzi; it struck me as a H&K, but my knowledge of guns is patchy).
4. Anyone notice that Fred’s guide was the guy who played Buffy’s vampire psychologist?
5. My wife’s comment that apparently W&H has moved into an old shopping mall (and “Good morning, Mr. Angel”).
I don’t think W&H did anything to the timeline. It seemed, at least to me, that they made the group forget Conner – and brainwashed Conner and the family that he was with. Or at least something like that. If W&H could tamper with time, then they wouldn’t have given the firm over to Angel and Co. – they would have just “fixed time” back to their liking. Just my thoughts…
X
I believe that it was memory, not time, that was tampered with by W&H. While it calls for retro-fitted memories for almost everyone who knew Connor it allows history to remain intact.
However, as I’ve mused elsewhere, I really doubt that ME will revisit this plot element should we get a season five. I’m betting that they would rather forge ahead with the new direction for the series, rather than revisit a plot point that might hopelessly confuse any new viewers.
However, we can still have a lot of fun working out just how the AI gang remembers the last two years.
Matt
Indeed, some of the most relaxed, natural acting we saw from Conner was at the end of this episode, as if a weight had been lifted from him. It’s possible he didn’t like the character any more than anyone else.
Gee, I thought that was the whole point. I’d always considered Conner as not liking himself very much. I know he thought he didn’t fit in, and with Jasmine’s demise, Conner lost the very thing he had wanted most, a sense of belonging to something.
Only question: What the heck was up with Gunn and the whole cat thing? But even that didn’t bother me. If they’d played ultra-weird with everyone, it would have been annoying. But since it was just Gunn, I’m willing to chalk it up to an open mystery that will be addressed next season.
Taking a wild guess, but I’d say Gunn was the most corrupted of the group and the most vulnerable to being possessed or controlled.
Nice episode.
Love to see more of Gwen next season and definately Lilah.
I really enjoyed the chance they take with the ending… nice to see Connor at peace (and the impact that will have on Angel).
It didn’t occur to me until reading the posts but I like the Gunn/panther speculation. Wesley and Angel were, as always, pretty cool in the story. Fred/Lorne as comic relief and Lilah as snarky perfection…. how Cordy was in the beginning.
I would not be surprised to see next season start with them all back in the hotel, months later, with the crash and fall of their Wolfram & Hart days slowly revealed over the first few episodes…. the team struggling to unwind W&H from its shadier ventures…. hey bring in Anya to help go over the books!
In re: (paraphrasing) “everybody got what they wanted, so what did Gunn want?”
Semi-obscure Sonic Youth reference: He wanted to be LL Cool J.
“Kool Thing, walking like a panther…”
Have to agree with Pack; it also occured to me that Angel basically did a Jasmine on Connor. Basically gave Connor peace without giving Connor a free will option to decline it. While, as far as we know, Angel didn’t have to eat anyone to accomplish this, and Connor seems to have free will now, it was still very much a “Father knows best” decision.
In addition to not being clear how AI’s memories work for most of the past two seasons, they do seem to have dropped several major plotlines. I assume Wes will either have to send out pink slips to his crew, or hire them at W&H. And he seems to have completely forgiven everyone for treating him like crap. He and Gunn no longer seem to have any problems with each other. Fred seems to have forgotten she was ever in a relationship with Gunn; there’s no interaction between the two that indicates it, either casual touching or awkwardness or reaction to Gunn’s guide and his flirting with her. There was just a bit too much of the reset button hit for AI’s interpersonal relationships as seen in this ep.
Otherwise, quite good, and setting up a lot of interesting possibilities.
Yeah. Conner was “erased” from Team Angel’s memories (except Angel’s, of course)and then he was subsequently “Dawned” into the happy family we saw at the end. Angel’s “killing” of Conner at the sporting goods shop triggered the spell. In the days to come, Angel’s associates may questions their actions and the past and will be able to learn about Conner, just not have the feelings associated with him. Conner literally became a character “best forgotten”.
I’ll throw in with the ‘memory’ adjustment crowd…and I still think it’s the same way with Dawn. It’s just a VERY thorough, VERY complex memory modification.
Everything still happened (Jasmine, et al….or is that ate all?), but now there’s been a ‘global’ mindwipe of Connor’s existence except by a few. Similar to the way the monks in Dawn’s case know what they did.
The main reason for this? If everything didn’t happen, Connor would presently be 1 to 2 years old. Cordelia wouldn’t be in a coma…etc.
Now what do they ‘remember’ happening? I’d guess that the events around Jasmine pretty much centered on Cordelia. Except for providing the genetic input, apparently, Connor really wasn’t very necessary in the history…if everyone just knows that Cordelia came back this way or was mystically impregnated (happened before with her).
The most troublesome aspect is Wesley. What is it that he remembers or thinks about the Connor situation? Perhaps now he thinks he was involved with helping Cordelia ascend or somesuch.
A simpler answer is maybe they just can’t/don’t think about those things very hard…
Until told otherwise, I’m presuming everything happened exactly how we saw it.
Finally, I have an interest in a Connor storyline. I’d love to see him discover his powers and heritage about 2 years down the road and come back asking questions. Having Angel face that would be interesting. For an episode.
Well, let’s think for a minute. I don’t believe that Connor is never going to be mentioned again. Chances are there could be an entire arc based on Angel’s actions – Connor need not be seen. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they had an arc based on that.
Anyway, anyone want to bet that Cordy will remember Connor too?
A lot of you raise good questions about the “aftershocks” of leaving such a big gap in Team Angel’s memories. Me, I was just kinda tickled that they did almost exactly what I’ve been wanting them to do with Dawn.
And on the whole I have to say a good episode and, on balance, a good season. Not great, but good.
I do hope it comes back and they’re able to make Lilah a regular if it does.
Although I didn’t like Connor either (especially as a regular), I do think that there are any number of characters from Buffy who were more annoying (Andrew, Kennedy, Dawn, sixth and seventh season Spike…)
Angel will remember Connor, and so does Lilah. And maybe Connor will still be back next season, but without the memories of being raised in demon land and being a jerk for two years. He’ll get recruited by W&H when they suddently need him, sucked into killing demons, almost like… a slayer!
Poor Angel tho… he’s sacrified for others twice now (giving up humanity with Buffy in the first season… remember him eating ice cream?) and now this.
Maybe the more Angel does this (interal suffering no one knows about), if he gets in bed with Buffy again (or Cordy, as if that’ll happen now), he could make it through the deed without losing the soul. Because guys are always thinking about something else, right?
Only question: What the heck was up with Gunn and the whole cat thing? But even that didn’t bother me. If they’d played ultra-weird with everyone, it would have been annoying. But since it was just Gunn, I’m willing to chalk it up to an open mystery that will be addressed next season.
I have four thoughts on this:
1. Gunn got corrupted.
2. Gunn is now a werepanther.
3. Gunn is now the little girl.
4. Gunn is now the gardian of the sun, because the last time we saw a panter, it was also the gaurdain of part of the device that controlled the sun. Of course, that could also mean that he’s 1 and 2 on top of it.
Always pay attention to the little clues, always obsess over them.
Now that somebody else could see that Gunn might be influenced by Blade, want to hear my theory that Gwen is Rogue? 🙂
seriously, she’s a thief who can’t be touched and she’s now sporting a subtle white stripe.