(Sorry about the posting delay: We had lightning storms hereabouts last night, and I shut down the computer to avoid mishaps.)
Unusual episode: A series creating a pilot for itself as what would be, effectively, a new series. If “Angel” continues, possibilities galore. If it doesn’t, it’s not an unreasonable last episode (although the lost potential will sting.) Spoilers follow:
“Who’s Conner?”
Seems unfair that everyone else in the series, with the exception of “Angel,” is spared having to remember a character who–except for brief flashes here and there–was the single most irritating and unsympathetic character in the Whedon-verse. I mean, let’s face it, you cared more about the villains who were trying to kill Buffy in any given season than you did about our hero’s son. Both Conner and Holtz came across as characters who were better in concept than execution. But the latter’s dead and the former has the happy ending his father likely will never get. Indeed, some of the most relaxed, natural acting we saw from Conner was at the end of this episode, as if a weight had been lifted from him. It’s possible he didn’t like the character any more than anyone else.
That aside, the episode worked very well for me. “We give up, you win” says the chick with the slashed throat. And it was great to see the innovative displays of the show’s humor, such as the dead silence for the entire first act until Tim Minear’s credit went past, at which point they started talking. You have to respect a show that literally forces you to read the opening credits because there’s nothing else going on.
This is a series that began life as a noir, helpless person of the week show, but through slow evolution (and not without growing pains) has developed into something very different. Now we see our heroes literally seduced into a situation that could literally take them global. They’d no longer be limited to small cases on the dark streets of LA. They could go anywhere, be involved with anything. It’s an intriguing notion. They could literally be the IMF of the supernatural. It works for me. I’d like to see it. Particularly because, unlike the IMF where you didn’t have to worry that the Secretary was going to sell out Mr. Phelps for personal gain, we’ll always be wondering if another shoe is going to drop on Angel and Company.
Only question: What the heck was up with Gunn and the whole cat thing? But even that didn’t bother me. If they’d played ultra-weird with everyone, it would have been annoying. But since it was just Gunn, I’m willing to chalk it up to an open mystery that will be addressed next season.
Presuming, of course, the WB realizes the potential for what they’ve got on their hands.
PAD
• 
‘Twas a good episode. I would also be skeptical of W&H’s motives: The bad guys giving the good guys exactly what the good guys need to fight evil — including the bad guys? Reminds me of the old saying “if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.” Plus, wouldn’t it be a little too easy for Wesley to find the necessary spell/passage if he can call up (literally) any book with ease?
Is Charisma Carpenter considering leaving ANGEL? She spent the last few episodes lying still, and the season finale felt like it was leaving the door for her absence wide open. If Angel could get Connor a better life, and have his old one removed from everyone’s memory, couldn’t he have asked for Cordelia to wake up?
I’m curious to see what happens at the start of season 5. If there is no season 5, though, I’m sure there will be TONS of fan fiction about Angel’s work with W&H…
About that “Father will kill the son” prophecy.
What if Wes mistranslated it? What if it really read, “The father will kill the child?”
In which case, given Connor’s final bit of “tough love” towards Jasmine, it’d make perfect sense.
I’m not sure I’d agree that there was “nothing else going on” in the first minute or so after the first commercial, but yeah, that was a cool way to present it.
I think what’s going on with Gunn was answered by Fred when he came out of the elevator: “Did you get… taller?” He’s always been the biggest guy in the room, and yet he’s always been plagued by self-doubt. I’m not sure exactly what was going on with the black panther (other than the obvious reference), but it seemed like W&F is offering to somehow remove that self-doubt.
Did anybody else get a little choked up at that last scene? The father sacrifices being able to watch his son grow up, allies himself with his worst enemies to give the son a normal life, and he’ll never know? Just me?
I think that it could still be interesting to see connor be slowly remembered by the group and his eventual realization of where he is really from and what he really is(whatever that may be). It could be similar to when on Buffy everyone learned the truth about Dawn and their reactions, and eventual acceptance of her. whoa buddy! this could be exciting.
So, then the prophecy from last season was correct in the end. The father does kill the son….sort of…
The prophecy from last season was doctored by the time traveling demon who finally became corperal and is still out there some where. The true prophecy is that Connor will kill the demon, so if the series continues I expect to see Connor back. Hope Cordie makes it too.
I just could not get over the fact that Wolfram & Hart would turn the branch over to Angel. It makes no logical sense. They’re an evil company and they want good guys to work for them…and (eventually)even fight against other branches of the same company????
I’m sorry, it was a decent episode, but the whole W&H situation DOES NOT MAKE ANY LOGICAL SENSE!
So, then the prophecy from last season was correct in the end. The father does kill the son….sort of…
That was my thought, and Connor triggered it when he told Angel that “Death is the only thing that changes anything.”
One of my innermost Jossverse fantasies has been fufilled, Conner is history (well, only to Angel), now if Dawn can go the way of the dinosaur, I will die a happy woman.
Love is Sacrifice. This is huge deal with Angel. He sacrificed his humanity so Buffy wouldn’t kill herself protecting his fragile human self. Now he sacrifices having a son, to give the boy what he so desperately wanted: a normal life and family. I didn’t like Conner, but I get his angst and his pain, he’s like the disgruntled teenager from a broken home, desperate for attention, desperate to feel he is apart of something, that something is real. His big speech about lies was good. This is probably the best I have ever seen Connor, both when he was crazy and happy.
Lorne is the best, the whole ‘evil limo’ thing busted me up. God I love Lorne. Long Live Lorne!
Gunn, all I have to say is I had serious Restless BtVS S.4 finale flashbacks with this whole nonsensical scene (what’s with Joss’ S.4 finales). I only hope it like Restless is a strange sign of the future. Here kitty kitty…
Fred & Holton Webster, I mean science guy, too priceless. I would love to see him become a quasi W&H regular, running in once in a while with a new invention or something, he’s got a good mad scientist vibe about him. I also think him and Fred would make the most adorable couple.
Cordy: Funny, they can make Conner’s life change in the blink of an eye, but they can’t bring back Cordy? The only thing that would have made the end of this episode better would be for her to step out of the elevator as Angel was about to get in to see Connor. That would have been priceless.
If some creepy ášš monks can create memories of Dawn for everyone, then W&H can definately zap Connor from everyones brains. Its the Jossverse, where anything is possible, and death is only the beginning.
The Spike-Angel connundrum. I’ve got a theory (no it isn’t bunnies), so one prophecy didn’t seem to come to fruition, doesn’t mean another won’t (hint hint first season last episode), now wouldn’t that make for excellent TV? From the DB Q&A from some LA convention it seems pretty dámņ clear to me DB would be psyched to have James over on AtS, actually it sounded like it was a done deal (and who would know better than DB, I mean who’s to say James comments in Cleveland weren’t just a cover?). Also I think the W&H situation fairs well for all Buffyverse persons. They can totally be private contractors (I bet one eyed Xander could be their maintence guy, hehe that was evil). I mean they all have skills. I like the above mentioned ‘new watchers’ council headed by Giles via Wesley & W&H. I have a feeling Buffy may be a part of this new WC, could be grand. This of course still leaves Faith to return and freelance slay for W&H, as a feed-into her own series after Eliza’s new one inneviatbly fails.
Finally Angel. Please may Angel not become the ridiculous lapdog he once was when around Buffy? I want smarmy, witty, cool Angel to show up in Sunnydale with his billowy coat, and nancy boy hair gel, and not just swoop in with clues and mysterious comments, but help kick Caleb’s booty right back to hëll. Of course though, that won’t happen. I think Angel as the First would be too good. I also think Angel may have just sold his soul to the devil, but he’s already been to hëll so its not like its a big deal.
Here’s to a new season!
And if the show does get picked up there is already spoiler information on http://www.tvtome.com for the first episode of the 5th season.
I just want to know what’s up with Cordelia. Has Charisma Carpenter quit, been written out, or is this maternity leave. (Not sure, but I thought I read somewhere she was actually pregnant.)
Gunn’s encounter with the Black Panther was so woefully lacking in explanation that you know it just has to play a big part in next season.
Oh, and the Hollywood Reporter is saying that it’s now looking good for the WB to pick up the show next year.
IMF = Imposible Missions Force, here I honestly thought you were talking about the International Monetary Fund.
Hahahahahahahhaahahah,
Me so stupid.
That scene with Gunn and the cat got me thinking. Earlier this season, we saw another cat, who guarded part of what blocked out the sun. The woman said they had a higher plan for Gunn than that and took him to the white room. Maybe he’s the new protector of the sun.
“Gunn is the little girl.” Out of context, that line is so freaking absurd it’s hilarious.
I’m not gonna bother weighing in with my opinions. Just gotta wait for season 5 to roll around, if it does get rolling.
eddie
One of my innermost Jossverse fantasies has been fufilled, Conner is history (well, only to Angel), now if Dawn can go the way of the dinosaur, I will die a happy woman.
Let’s hope that Dawn and Conner don’t attend the same college. If they should meet and breed with each other….
So, some thoughts…
A lot of folks talking about memory vs. time alteration, and I’m going with memory, a la what they did with Dawn (which makes me shake my head when I see the new Buffy comics and they have post-movie, pre-series stuff with Dawn…yes, it’s an interesting concept, but it messes with my continuity genes). As someone above mentioned, thier memories have been changed, as well as a subconcious suggestion to not try to think to hard about these kinfs of things (perhaps a hint to the audience also?).
I like the glass thing. Kudos to anyone who picked that up pre-ep. It’s a neat trick so that next season (I’m trying to stay joy-focused here) they don’t have to worry about the whole “the live in a big glass skyscraper, we like to film during the day, we can’t have Angel bursting into flames all over the place.” Yes, they have played fast and loose with the sunlight thing in the past, but this would be pushing it. I’m sure we’ll see Angel all angsty about it, not wanting to enjoy it and all.
I’m actually sad to see Connor go, because he’s such a tragic character (although yes, just made into a whiny, half-assed villian wanna be). In a sense, he’s going through (or was, I guess) what we’re supposed to believe Buffy is going through again: he’s been forced this gift and power (and obligation?) to help and just doesn’t want it. He’s even worse off than Buffy, because she had 15 normal years, while he got all hellish ones. As someone else mentioned (this is what happens when I show up late), no one has mentioned that he’s leaving the show. I’d love to see some thing happen, where now UCLA attending Joe College Connor crosses path with Angel or some other demonic thing and realizes “Hey, I’ve got superpowers!” and now has to reconcile that with the rest of his life. Hopefully, this time around, he’d have a clearer head about things.
“I’m strictly R&D…well, and a little D&D.” I’m a big dork, so that got a huge laugh from me. I really liked that actor in “Conversations with Dead People” on Buffy, and I would love to see RD&D as a recurring guy in the new season.
Gunn in the white room…practically anything with him would be good. I like panther totem, I like an injection of power, confidence and “juice” as it were. He has a lot of potential, and I think it’s time for him to seize it.
Peter is right, we have a whole world to play with now that Angel & Co. are in charge at Wolfram & Hart (is it still going to be called W&H?). I would love to see more Lilah, perhaps to just pop in and mess with them, or to just pop in with conditions of Angel’s stewardship of “thier” company.
As for Cordelia…this season has been such a wash for her. I’m guessing the times we saw Cor in “heaven” it was really her, and I guess in some sense it was “really her” before she was pregnant (maybe? who knows?), but then again, who knows. It’d be nice to have her remember Connor too (because her mind and memories are elsewhere right now). If she does come back, I hope they do away with the visions from the Powers. Or maybe back with the Powers, and walks away from Angel and all (because she doesn’t like the deal), perferring to fight the good fight with, well, the Good.
Blah blah blah…I’m done now. Here’s hoping for better luck on TV Fall ’03…or maybe not, because then I’d get more done.
It sucks that Conner gets a free pass after killing that girl…and probably that cop.
Maybe you folks are thinking about this too deeply. Maybe Gunn is getting A FREE PANTHER! I know I’d like one.
Oh, and here’s my nit of the week…how does a kid who grew up in a hëll dimension, raised by a guy from the 19th century, know how to wire explosives? That kind of pushed it, for me…
Noooooooooo,Keith….not the UPN
as in new ep, 3 reruns, new ep, 3reruns, etc.
Maybe you folks are thinking about this too deeply. Maybe Gunn is getting A FREE PANTHER! I know I’d like one.
My initial reaction was that he was joined with the cat (Think Cat People without the part about having to kill to become human again or [in the 1982 version] the incest). The way the camera cut to the cat and it roared…like they became one.
X
Oh, and here’s my nit of the week…how does a kid who grew up in a hëll dimension, raised by a guy from the 19th century, know how to wire explosives? That kind of pushed it, for me…
It’s amazing what you can find on the Internet. 🙂
Best/Mario
**So, then the prophecy from last season was correct in the end. The father does kill the son….sort of…
That was my thought, and Connor triggered it when he told Angel that “Death is the only thing that changes anything.” **
That’s what got me thinking about how strangely close what Angel did was to what Jasmine wanted to do. Worse in a sense because Jasmine was just playing God with the lives of strangers while Angel was doing the mother of all father knows bests.
The other thing was that it reminded me of the Superman Annual that Alan Moore wrote which featured Mongul as a villain. The ultimate trap for Superman was giving him the life he always wanted.
But as I said earlier, we’re still assuming that Connor is gone. This might be one of those things that comes back to bite them on the butt.
The whole episode I just kept thinking ‘why are they even considering making this deal with the devil?’ You just know there is going to be fine print…tons and tons of fine print. I mean, Lilah’s contract extended beyond death, so what is Angel and company thinking? W&H just reek of evil, so how do they think they are going to use that for good? If anything, I think W&H are practicing the “…and keep your enemies closer” philosophy. Keeping Angel busy while doing other nastiness might also be part of it. Sure they meay have the power to lots more good, but you know what they say about power….
**So, then the prophecy from last season was correct in the end. The father does kill the son….sort of…
That was my thought, and Connor triggered it when he told Angel that “Death is the only thing that changes anything.” **
That’s what got me thinking about how strangely close what Angel did was to what Jasmine wanted to do. Worse in a sense because Jasmine was just playing God with the lives of strangers while Angel was doing the mother of all father knows bests.
The other thing was that it reminded me of the Superman Annual that Alan Moore wrote which featured Mongul as a villain. The ultimate trap for Superman was giving him the life he always wanted.
But as I said earlier, we’re still assuming that Connor is gone. This might be one of those things that comes back to bite them on the butt.
I’m still wondering how Angel got into that sporting goods store, surrounded by police and TV cameras, in broad daylight, killed Connor, and got out again, all without anyone noticing.
I’m still wondering how Angel got into that sporting goods store, surrounded by police and TV cameras, in broad daylight, killed Connor, and got out again, all without anyone noticing.
I’m kinda curious what that security gaurd is going to think when he wakes up and is all beaten but can’t remember conner existed. 🙂
I think they don’t know if Charisma is going to come back or not. New baby might equal mommy need to stay home with baby 24-7, for all they know. I figure her comatose acting through the end of the season was “maternity leave.” Reports of her return are unknown.
I have yet to hear anything about Vincent not coming back, alas. I keep hoping.
I’d love it if they brought Spike on, but I wonder what that would do to the “vampire with a soul” mythology.
I think Gunn is moving towards a problem-solver type role, after what went on in the Players episode. A Facilitator (in Company novel parlance). I don’t know where the cat thing is going, but…stature’s a good guess?
Oh, I forgot to mention why I think Angel made the choice he did: I think he realized at this point that Connor, with his horrible blood-and-death-horror past and all his superhuman RAGE against the world that nothing, not even Jasmine could help, just was never going to be happy at this point. Starting over and giving him a normal life was the best thing he could think of for him. And I agree.
If Charisma doesn’t come back as a regular, I sure hope she makes a guest star appearance to give her character an appropriate send-off. Someone who’s been in the “‘verse” from the beginning of the first season of Buffy deserves better than to peter out like that, you know?
I sure hope to God Vincent isn’t coming back. Nothing against him personally, his character just causes more problems than he solves.
No Spike. No Spike. No no no no no Spike. Spike die. Die die die die die Spike.
As for Gunn, I don’t know what the panther meant either, but I’m sure they’ll think of something. I’d still be just as happy if he became “New Connor’s” shop class teacher and appeared just as infrequently as I’m hoping Connor will…
I imagine there’s now a shadowy figure in their memory. Cordelia lived somewhere after she got back they just don’t know where. Someone knocked up Cordelia and protected her so she could give birth. And someone led Jsmine’s army through the sewers.
Darla’s pregnancy played out the same way. Except Fred was never in the alley and Angel refused to talk about what happened.
Wesley went to Holtz to convince him Angel was good. Lorne read Wesley as visiting Holtz and Angel feels betrayed. The rest plays out the same.
I’m still wondering how Angel got into that sporting goods store, surrounded by police and TV cameras, in broad daylight, killed Connor, and got out again, all without anyone noticing.
If he could break into Wolfram and Hart every couple of months, why should a store in the mall be any harder?
–Daniel M.
Well, per some posts by Tim Minear (who, btw, is leaving Mutant Enemy to show run Wonderfalls next season) at http://www.buffistas.org/showthread.php?thread_id=63&post_id=738
Angel has fulfilled the prophecy; he killed Connor in the sporting goods store with the knife. Apparently Connor was then reborn N years in the past to the family he was seen with at the end. The Connor we knew for the past couple of seasons never existed. He doesn’t go into any detail about just what AI’s post-Crisis, er, post-Connor memories of that period are. Or how Lilah would still be dead.
Oh, and that’s a leopard, not a panther, with Gunn. And no, he doesn’t explain that either. He does say that he was aware of the irony of Angel’s decision about Connor and Jasmine’s lack of free will bits.
I actually really liked the character of Holtz, and Connor could’ve been ok if handled right. same goes for Dawn, if she were actually given something to do then it might turn out ok, as long as there’s no screaming! But under used characters were always a problem, just look at Oz. Still prefering Buffy to Angel I’m afraid, and I still really like S6 after re-watching, though I really wish Willow had been evil for more of the season, it worked with Angel.
Hey!
If you’re going to put spoilers, the least you could do is use the spoiler tags, Spoiler Boy.
Some of us don’t want to know until the show. >:(
Funny, the second the ep ended my first thought was “Gee, I guess Joss knows something we don’t. Guess that’s it for Angel.”
It really felt like farewell episode. Everything they built on since Ep 1 Season 1 sort of came around in this week’s finale.
The show’s theme has always been Redemption. And in the end, Connor was redeemed by his father (kind of funny as its usually the reverse). And of course, Wolfram and Hart have been King Baddies since ep 1 and now Angel is the guy running the firm.
If this isn’t the swansong (and I sure hope it isn’t), then Joss must have a bible written on the show from ep 1 because its amazing how this show and BTVS hit their “marks.” Meaning, if you remember, end of season 4 on BTVS saw a huge shift in the series…from the graduation, everybody leaving the familiar high school surroundings, Angel leaving for LA, the exit of Joyce (she didn’t die but Buffy moved out so she effectively was written out) and so on. Angel felt very much like that this week.
A few other comments:
1) I actually liked Connor at the end. Well, I liked him starting last ep…when he admitted to seeing wormface and then his “my whole life is lies” speech..I finally understood him and even felt sorry for him. I’ve never, ever, liked Dawn for one second (ok, there was that one scene where she was dressed all šlûŧ-bømbÿ in the magical jacket ep, but I wasn’t thinking with my head then)…but here they actually had me SAD that Connor was effectively “given up for adoption.” Great writing.
2) I like Laila but her resurrecton doesn’t make any sense. I mean, how come she came back and those other boss-guys never did? You know, the one who got eaten by Dru/Darla and then the other one who had his head chopped off by Laila??? Like, she was the only one who signed this “forever” contract? And what is she? Zombie? Ghost?
3) Now that Connor is written out and it appears that Cordy has bitten the dust as well (I see this “coma” thing like Faith’s “coma” on BTVS, she’ll wake up for guest shots but I don’t think she’s a regular anymore), that means next season they need a new foil for Angel (Connor argued and caused trouble for him, somebody like that) and a new hot chick/love interest for him. Laila isn’t possible since she’s Wes’ girl. Maybe they can make Fred into Angel’s new girl (they hinted at it) but then she’d come across like a ho (I mean, she’s already moved on Wes and Gunn).
I haven’t seen any BTVS spoilers (and I wish you guys would stop posting them) but I hope Faith dies (just a little bit) next week so we get a new slayer activated. I’d love to see Justine come back as the slayer, just to see her stick Wes’ bucket on his head.
Chris
Actually, we have seen at least one of the other W&H “boss-guys” whose contract extended beyond his death, and it was one of those who was eaten by Darla and/or Dru. He showed up again to help Angel along his way to bottoming out (and conceiving Connor with Darla).
Spoiler Boy– Okay, there’s a spoiler font for a reason. Please use it. I mean, you didn’t even attempt to use spoiler space or anything. Just “Wham! Here, read all this stuff you didn’t want to know.”
Exactly… Thanks for letting me know what the very last show will be about…
Sheesh.
First time posting on this board, but I bring good tidings.
The WB Renews Angel for Next Season Monday, May 12, 2003 12:30 CDT
Variety reports that 20th Century Fox’s Angel — with new cast addition James Marsters– is taking flight for a fifth season on The WB.
The network has ordered another full season of the Joss Whedon-creative series and will air the show Wednesdays at 9 p.m., with relocated hit Smallville as its lead-in. The WB also has an option for a sixth season.
What’s more, Buffy the Vampire Slayer star Marsters has signed on to reprise his role as Spike. Other “Buffy” regulars may also make guest appearances next season, while Whedon has vowed to write several scripts and direct episodes of the show.
Also see http://www.renewangel.com/
Enjoy 🙂
Dazza
Now this is what I call the good (Angel renewed) the bad (Cordelia not a regular) and the ugly (Spike a regular).
Conner – if it is only memories that changed and not time, the Wolf Ram and Hart are probably setting him up to be a “college intern” at the prestigious law organization… where the boy with the power and the result of prophesies can be corrupted to their liking.
If time has been changed — please let them be consinstant.
Gunn – so not happy with his behavior in the Gwen Raiden storyline. Not only that he made a big bad enemey with human agents – some with magical ties, but others with really nice bullets.
The panther – black jaguar? – This spirit guide could mean Gunn is the “sun” guardian, but introduced in Wolf Ram and Hart’s “white space” means they probably also have some subliminal control of him. Perhaps a nod to “The Sentinel” television series, as well.
And yes, television shows can do series crossovers or past series crossovers if they plan the paperwork right.
On Wes speculation – yes, I’d rather see him as Angel’s outside man, rather than in WRH.
Wes as Batman or Wolverine…okay.
On James Marsters — well, maybe if it is time for a change, even though his character’s past human identity had blond hair and not died hair, the “new” Spike could be dying his hair black or brown to suit Marsters. Good luck sufer boy!
– Rachel Kadushin
GRRRRRRRRRRRR…..
I’ve avoided the spoiler sites for THE FIRST TIME IN FOUR YEARS because I want to be surprised by Buffy for once…
Thanks heaps.
SPOILER SPACE.
Learn it. Know it. Live it.
Bášŧárd.