Folks have been asking how DC is planning to market “The Fallen Angel.” There’s some concern that it will receive little-to-no attention, and just be tossed out there so it can safely sail under retailer radar and quickly vanish.
Thus far that doesn’t seem to be the plan. According to what I’ve been told, “The Fallen Angel” is being promoted as the anchor book of three new titles featuring female leads that will–ideally–appeal both to male readers, and also attract that great untapped resource, women. There will be a major marketing push for these three books, of which “The Fallen Angel” will be the first, with the other two following shortly thereafter in subsequent months. I’ve suggested the collective marketing hook of referring to the new titles as “Dangerous Curves.” We’ll see if they go with that.
I believe “Fallen Angel” should be in the next Previews. Here’s hoping the book gets good positioning.
PAD
• 
Yes, yes, this is all very interesting, but I’ve just read Supergirl #80 at last and, if the protagonist of “The Fallen Angel” doesn’t turn out to be Linda Danvers, all the clever marketing strategies in the world won’t stop me wanting to staple my head to the floor.
“and why I won’t or wouldn’t watch “Alias,” “Birds of Prey,” “She-Spies,” “Charmed,” “Dark Angel,” and all shows like it, where an “empowered women” is defined by how many men she can beat or kill simply for being male.”
course if you watched charmed you would know the wicthes kill evil demons not men for being men
Erhan Kartal: it seems like PAD’s anti-male sentiment has crept into his writing more and more.
Luigi Novi: You have not established that Peter has one.
Erhan Kartal: All I’m saying his misandry shows in his writing. That he believes he is being impartial means it’s unconscious, or that in his view, it’s a “common sense” or “rational” way of looking at the world.
Luigi Novi: Again, in order for this argument to work, you have to first establish that he is anti-male. You have not. You are confusing your perception of what you think Peter’s mindset is when reading his work with his actual mindset. Why do you automatically assume that you can glean his sociopolitical gender views simply by reading his books?
“That he believes he is being impartial means it’s unconscious”??? What’re you, his shrink? His psychic? Trying to gauge his “sentiment” from the Star Trek stories he writes will yield about as accurate a result as reading tea leave or star charts, and is more demonstrative of a flimsy intellect and delusion on your part than any anti-male sentiment on his.
Erhan Kartal: Except that a) I’m not judging you, merely pointing out behavior that exists…
Luigi Novi: Bûllšhìŧ. You’re pretending to know what Peter’s views or feelings on gender are, and the inner workings of his unconscious mind, without really knowing him, simply by reading fictional stories by him. You’re not “pointing out behavior,” you’re merely giving an interpretation of his writing, and pretending you can gauge his state of mind from it.
Erhan Kartal: b) I’m not basing my assertions on your fiction alone. The rest of the paragraph you quoted included mentionings of your CBG column and internet boards, where you speak as “Peter David,” not as a fictional character.
Luigi Novi: That does not mean that any misandry on his part has been established as fact, certainly not to the point where you can make unfounded assumptions about his “unconscious.” Facts must established, not invented from jumped-to conclusions and interpretations of fiction. I’ve read Peter’s columns for years. Could you please tell us where he’s displayed misandry?
Erhan Kartal: Anyway, I’d rather be wrong in this instance than be right. I’d love it if Gleau is treated as he should be, as an alien with inherent abilities
Luigi Novi: He is.
Erhan Kartal: instead of an X-man who has to keep his powers reined in lest he woo all the chicks.
Luigi Novi: Putting aside the extraneious “X-man” reference (since it is neither pertinent nor makes sense), this is again your interpretation. Gleau isn’t being treated as someone who has to keep his powers reined by Peter, he’s being treated that way by Shelby. The flaw in your reasoning is the childish assumption that Shelby’s mindset mirrors Peter’s. Because writers write what they know and sometimes speak through characters, PCers seem to think that they can decided which character is the supposed “author voicebox,” and to what degree. Just because Shelby placed unfair restrictions on Gleau does not necessarily mean that Peter would agree with such an action. As a writer, he has to not only write things that conform to what he thinks is right, but also things that do not, even when it comes from a “good guy” like Shelby. Otherwise, it would be impossible to write engaging conflict, drama or tragedy.
Erhan Kartal: I’d be ecstatic if Fallen Angel’s origins don’t involve a rape, a cheating boyfriend, or an ášš of a father, or she doesn’t kick the ášš of every man she sees in the first set of issues.
Luigi Novi: Most criminals, thugs, cutthroats and assassins are male. Thus, when a male hero goes up against such thugs, he invariably ends up going up against hordes of men. Why should that be any different if the main character is female? Aren’t most of the opponents the Hulk went up against during Peter’s run on that title male? Why would doing so be anti-male merely if the main character was female?
Matt Adams: Well, whether or not you agree with Erhan (and I’m 50/50), he does make an interesting and valid point about Gleau and his “chick-wooing.”
Luigi Novi: No, he merely gave his perception of Peter vis a vis his stories, and I do not agree with it as “valid.” Nowhere in the story did I ever see Peter’s depiction of Gleau as being anti-male. This is just me, but I perceived it as Peter depicting an ugly situation where he didn’t necessarily portray either Gleau or M’Ress as being right or wrong, but as two people who perceived what happened entirely differently. Not once did I get the sense that Peter himself sided with M’Ress and Shelby (though it’s possible I’m just obtuse and saw it differently than other people), even if Gleau was treated harshly. I simply thought Peter detached himself from the story enough to make either side look lopsided, even if Gleau was severely punished. Personally, I think Shelby was entirely out of line for what she did to Gleau, and I hope he gets justice for the persecution he’s suffering.
Erhan Kartal: That’s just ridiculous, and more, as the reader, we’re supposed to think that’s acceptable, because Shelby doesn’t really question her actions because she’s the hero in the book.
Luigi Novi: Wrong. Main characters and “heroes” can be depicted as being flawed and wrong too. This is where your reasoning falls apart. The idiotic idea that everything a main character does is necessarily “good” or “right.” It isn’t.
Just for the Record.
I am the one who came up with “Dangerous Curves” when Peter and I were dicussing the DC line over lunch. Yes, that’s right. It was a Woman who came up with that one.
Kathleen
**’Dangerous Curves’ sorta emphasizes the sexuality, doncha think?”
Yes, my point exactly. Reducing women to sexuality alone (which won’t exactly appeal to the female gaze) all for the sake of a pun is, IN MY OPINION, not the way to go here. It’s not a matter of offending, it’s a matter of savvy marketing. I merely suggested that one may not wish to market something using a pun that’s going to immediately indicate disinterest to a large portion of your potential readers.**
“The female gaze.”
You know…I find that statement horrifyingly patronizing. It would never occur to me to make the flat statement of how all females perceive anything.
PAD
A lot has been written since I wrote my earlier comment. So far I haven`t read the later columns which seem to be related to this one. Before I do that, I want to comment some of it what I have read here:
I find it interesting that Kathleen came up with “Dangerous Curves”. I still think this is not a good choice but I am not a marketing professional. All I can say is that *I* don`t find it appealing and that this catch phrase is not working for me.
About the M`Ress/Gleau chapter in NF: I find it very interesting. It certainly causes controversial discussions, it makes people think and I discovered that people can draw very different conclusions from the story. To me, that is what Star Trek should be about.
I certainly wouldn`t call it a “mess”. What I find so interesting is that I can actually understand both positions here, the one of M`Ress and Gleau. But I can also see that BOTH of them are also wrong. I also think Shelby didn`t handle the situation well at all, but as it is the case with M`Ress and Gleau, I can see why and understand her. This makes this story so tragic and I wonder how this will end. I haven`t got a good feeling about it and predict a tragic outcome.
About the discussion concerning personal views of authors in books: I have no problem with it. The contrary, I think people who have personal experiences are best qualified to also write about them. After I learned a bit about PAD`s personal background I can see why the Israel/Palestine conflict as well as related aspects have been appearing more or less disguised in NF and Apropos and if I remember correctly, also Captain Marvel. “Cold Wars” is one of my favourite NF stories mainly because it deals with that topic so well. I just don`t like the feeling I get that there is a message “religion is bad”. My opinion is, of course religion can be misused as an instrument of power and an excuse for violence but I also know that it enriches other people`s lives and can do a lot of good. I prefer the more balanced view of religion in DS9 Relaunch. Maybe “Gods Above” will show a different view. Maybe, but I am not hopeful.
As soon as you are allowed to do so, PAD: I would welcome some little and maybe even not so little NF teasers :-).
My opinion is, of course religion can be misused as an instrument of power and an excuse for violence but I also know that it enriches other people`s lives and can do a lot of good. I prefer the more balanced view of religion in DS9 Relaunch. Maybe “Gods Above” will show a different view. Maybe, but I am not hopeful.
What fascinated me was when people read “Supergirl” and claimed it was anti-religion…while totally ignoring the fact that Supergirl’s mom was very religious, an active participant in the local church, derived great serenity from her faith, and the only permanent religious figure in the book was a priest who was a decent and upstanding citizen who was working with Supergirl’s mom on her religious studies.
PAD
Mr Peter David sir,
I was hoping that you may have seen my enquiry that I had posted earlier on up this thread that I had addressed to you.
As to, what your thoughts were, on if you were asked by DC that if you would maybe consider writing a Power Girl comic for them, that they had currently in the works?
and I was hoping that you may have been able to let this Karen fan of ol’e (ever scince first picking up my very first comic of the Pre-Crisis Kara of the Earth 2 era, that introduced me to the unique comic Superheroine in the first case) know, as to what the chances are, to having my favourite writer maybe writing a Power Girl comic in the end?
I hope that I may hear your thoughts as to this soon. For I’m extremely curious to know as to, if it would be something that you would like to take on, even while handling your other projects in the meantime too?
Thanks in advance for you being kind enough and taking some time out from your busy schedule to read this enquiry of this Power Girl fan up here. 🙂
AA
I’m offline a day or so thanks to an ice storm, and look what happens. =)
To PAD and Luigi…I chose the words “interesting and valid point” very carefully. I think Erhan has stimulated discussion, and that he seems to have as much right to his opinion as anyone else who posts here. Are you two taking issue with the “interest” or the level of validity? =)
Gleau’s story works as a case against sexual harassment, but it’s just as viable as a case for looking at the issue VERY carefully. I think it could also work in a story about cross-cultural taboo and racism.
Whether or not the issue at hand was “fairly obvious,” I can’t say. I know MY reaction, and that’s all I can speak on. Whether or not my idea is valid or interesting, I leave to the experts. =)
I understand the difference between the two, Matt, and I stand by my comments. But thank you for your viewpoint. 🙂
I didn’t mean to imply that you didn’t! I just wanted to make certain that I wasn’t misconstrued as another random loudmouth spouting off for lack of something better to do. =D
**I was hoping that you may have seen my enquiry that I had posted earlier on up this thread that I had addressed to you.
As to, what your thoughts were, on if you were asked by DC that if you would maybe consider writing a Power Girl comic for them, that they had currently in the works?**
A Power Girl series. Hmmm. Perhaps I could cut off one of her arms and replace it with a harpoon that has angelic powers…
Just kidding. At this point, if DC is planning a Power Girl series, I dont know anything about it. Would I write it if it happened? That depends on a variety of factors.
PAD
Yes, Matt, and I myself was not implying that were doing so. Simply clarifying my position, and I included a smiley at the end of my post to indicate my demeanor when doing so. 🙂
“Dangerous Curves” does bring to mind a quote from John Waters’ “Cry Baby”…
“Our bosoms *are* our weapons!”
… in addition to scores of females who were supposed to be “strong” women (Hëll, I’ll settle for characters that happen to be female human beings, they don’t even gotta be strong) who always seemed to find their biggest strengths in their support garments for those massive bøøbš, or possibly in their mega-strength ankles capable of both supporting the exaggerated figure above and the butt-kickin’ foot below while perched in ice-pick heels…
Now that’s some gravity defying strength, right there.
Anywho.
That’s one take on the “Dangerous Curves” idea from a female human person who would like to enjoy comics more than she has. If I didn’t know anything about Mr. David or his work, I too would toss it back as just another teenage-male-with-a Zena-or-Emma Peel-fixation bit and move on, regardless of what cover image was used.
Knowing that it’s a Really Bad Pun lightens it a bit, but maybe saving the Really Bad Pun for some future drag queen hero/ine would be a better idea. If you’re gonna offend, offend BIG.
😉
I was just wondering what the Fallen Angel series was about? Is it about Supergirl? and what the other 2 female titles were going to be.