Ooookay…still pondering…
TV Guide recently listed “Angel” as one of the six shows you’re not watching but should be. Anyone who turned in last night would certainly find a gripping and entertaining program. I’m not entirely sure they could follow it, but I doubt they’d take their eyes off it.
I actually felt sorry for Conner. I didn’t think that was possible. And initially I thought the First was posing as Darla, but her intentions seemed too pure and redemptive to fit the First’s MO. Maybe she’s from the same apparation generator as Joyce came from over in BTVS. Unless that WAS the First, who is actually operating at cross purposes to the Beastmaster and…
God, my head’s starting to hurt.
Was that a different actor as Skip?
“Hi, Gina? This is Joss. Look, your work in ‘Firefly’ makes me think you’d be perfect for this new role in ‘Angel.’ You’ll be playing the anti-Christ. Gina? Hello? *sigh* Call her back, please.”
So it’s now looking that the Cordy-is-Being-Controlled-by-the-Baby contingent was right on the money. Well, sure, if your baby’s the anti-Christ, that’s gonna happen. I kept waiting for Mia Farrow to show up. The only thing about the episode that underwhelmed me was the notion that *everything* of consequence in the series that’s been happening since the beginning was leading up to this moment. That’s pushing predestination to the point where it seems that every decision the characters have made was fated. I’m glad even the characters commented on it, ’cause I’m a big believer in free will and THAT MUCH destiny was more than I was willing to swallow. Nor do I think it was necessary, and frankly, I’m more inclined to chalk it up to Skip being boastful than reality. Kind of a shame Skip turned out to be that evil, though. I liked it more when he was just this working class stiff who didn’t seem good or evil, but just did his job and went home.
And finally, *finally* it appears Fred will figure in bigtime. I’m all for that. I really liked her when she first showed up. She was almost a cross between Giles and Willow. Once she became involved with Gunn, that all seemed to just go away and she was just this person that Wes and Gunn were fighting over. Let’s hope for a return to greatness for her.
PAD
• 
Also on Connor, the kid’s got serious abandonment issues. It showed very well on his initial reaction to Darla, commenting that she left him because she hated him. Then Holtz left him as well.. more than left Connor, left Connor just to set Connor on a vengeance kick. Though come to think of it, if they did want to at least point to some of the manipulation the big bad’s been doing, they could probably finagle something with Holtz’s two-facedness between Angel and Connor, as writing that note to Connor always seemed to weaken Holtz’s position just a touch.
Digression aside, at least in choosing between people rather than positions, he had to choose between someone who did leave him and the woman who was offering to love him. I think Connor does on some level know very well that something was severely wrong with Cordy, but it’s not about good/evil to him, in the end. It’s about who he thinks will hold him and not let him go.
Which means that there ain’t no way in Pylea that he will break the spell that our big bad’s apparently able to put over anyone who sees her. 🙂
PS Completely unrelated, but am I the only one here to think that Alexis Denisof would make a great James Bond?
I’ve thought that as well, although I think that would make him the first American James Bond. The accent’s put on.
PAD
**Something else to keep note. When the ‘child’ was born a blob with a bunch of arms (tenticles?) was shown hovering over Cordy.
— So the “child” was a sumo wrestler eating sushi? **
Reminded me of some H.P. Lovecraft old gods… you know ‘Jesus Saves, Allah Protects and Cthulu thinks you’d make a great sandwich’ type of being…
Travis
You all have brought out some interesting points about Connor that had made me think a little differently about his character…especially about the abandonment issues — that seems right on. My comments probably made me sound like a cold hearted bášŧárd…It didn’t even occur to me that idea of someone wanting him after feeling rejected and out of place could be so overwhelming to him. Makes sense.
Xyon
I agree it was manipulation more than predestination. Not all of the Big Bad’s plans went off without a hitch, She was constantly foiled in the past few episodes and who’s to say what prior manipulations failed and succeeded. I for one enjoyed the episode and even though Conner gets on my nerves too, I felt sorry for him in that he dámņëd himself. Remember, this kid has been manipulated since his birth by Holtz and Cordy, his parents were notorious vampires and he was raised in a hëll dimension for most of his life! So lets cut him a little slack!
My vote’s for the “retroactive continuity” camp- C. Carpenter got pregnant, then the WB starts playing around with ME regarding ANGEL’s status on TV. As others have pointed out, “we’re gonna take this show in a new direction!” pretty much indicates a “okay what can we do with what we’ve got?” mentality. With enough continuity, you’re capable of pulling bits together to form a coherent “master plan.” We see this in comic books all the time, hence the term “ret-con”- retroactive continuity.
eddie
It’s true that Alexis Denisof would be a great James Bond… But you are overlooking the biggest news– that almost every creative person connected to the Fantastic Four film want Alexis to play REED RICHARDS. The studio wants a “name” actor– but the creative principals are still pushing hard. I believe Alexis will have a longer and deserved (what a NICE man!) FILM career shortly. A great James Bond– Yes. A PERFECT Mr. Fantastic– even more so!
I’m a little surprised people are doing so much fawning over “Angel,” particularly in comparison with “Buffy,” but I guess there’s no accounting for taste, or likes.
I don’t expect we’ll ever see the day that someone on “Buffy” will claim that everything in the program’s history has been manipulated. (“That’s right. We sent the guy with the antlers to have an affair with Drusilla, thus guaranteeing Spike’s return to Sunnydale, so that three years later he could…”)
Count me with eddie and the others who take Skip’s claim as just a desperate attempt by the writers to make us believe they know what they’re doing. I’m not convinced.
We were warned of Dawn’s existence at least half a season before she arrived. (Faith’s coma, “Little sister’s coming.”) Does anyone really think that Skip was supposed to have been evil all this time?
And what was the idea behind Wesley’s duck-and-roll before taking one final shot with his gun? Was that supposed to have improved his aim?
I loved Skip’s comment “no one comes back from Paradise”
this to me lends credence to another comment about not taking everything skip says verbatim.
Despite the two different networks I still see it as one buffyverse.
Buffy came back from a paradise or one of the heaven planes
I would SO love to see a couple of episodes where buffy and cordy and angel and spike all get together.
sort of sit around a table in a bar and talk over how things used to be and what’s happened in the last few years.
that would be so funny all things considered.
and I saw the Alexis Denisof thing about Reed Richards and think that with a little premature greying of the temples he’d make a perfect Reed.
He already seems to play Wesley (since coming to Angel anyway) as slightly off “genius”. (to me anyway)
as for Skip being evil.
I believe at least one thing he said…He’s a merc.
either that or he was saying all those things to get a reaction.
Sometimes a “pep” speech just won’t do it enough.
sometimes you have to tell people what will piss them off in order for them to pick themselves up and go “onward”.
Also, another thing that has occured to me and would lend creence to all this “powers that be” who don’t choose to share everything or why sometimes the powers refuse to help in ways that would help their “champions”.
What if Angel’s “Powers That Be” are not good OR evil?
What if they are a force for neutrality?
they are trying to balance things equally, whether it be an act of evil one day and an act of goodness the next?
like Skip, whose orders are to preserve the neutrality and to give Angel too much of an edge on the side of good he responds with acts that could be deemed evil or whatnot?
where in the past he’s had to deal out acts that may have been seen as “good”.
Makes as much sense to me as any other theory.
AS for Darla being on the side of good, the selfless act of staking herself resulting in connor’s birth might have been enough to redeem her soul.
Also, there seemed to be some “need” on darla’s part that Connor make a choice, not be “told” what was right or wrong.
whereas with holtz, connor would more than likely have listened more to him but holtz would probably have or had to tell connor what to do and that didn’t seem like the purpose of darla’s visit.
I believe Skip actually said “No one comes back from Paradise. Except for one case.” Clearly implying Buffy.
Regarding the presdination question, the evil side appears stronger (either to Skip or to AI) by claiming to have planned everything; I don’t believe it either.
I’m still hoping we get to see the senior partners from W&H
Jumping in kind of late, but . . .
Ok, first off, I’ve only been regularly watching Angel since the episode where he’s rescued from underwater by Wesley.
Also, I’m almost done with the second season of Buffy on DVD.
That’s just so you know that I’m not aware of every historic detail in the shows (although my wife does her best to fill me in without spoiling upcoming DVD views).
Last Angel episode? Under average, though not as mediocre as the Gunn episode. My main problem was with the scenes between Cordelia and Connor, and since those made up at least half the episode, that was a big deal.
As other people have mentioned, Cordelia’s manipulation is anything but subtle. The actress is to blame in part, surely, but there’s also the terrible dialogue they have her spouting. And there’s lots of it. So you have me getting frustrated over the fact that (it’d seem) anybody with half a brain could notice she’s insincere. And yet Connor is fooled time and again.
Not only that, but those scenes, and the scenes with Darla were LONG and really boring, with the dialogue repeating itself over and over. It just felt like they were killing time.
Annoying.
And finally . . . I’m sorry, but the “creature” at the end was kind of a dissappointment. I’m trying to be objective and not judge the next episode from the preview we got, but all that stuff about everybody kneeling and falling under her spell looks really cheesy. Oh, and Fred’s going to save us? I guess I started on the show after she’d stopped being an interesting character.
I don’t know, it just didn’t look too promising. In fact, it crippled all the anticipation all the other episodes had built up for the season finale.
But it’d seem, in this case, that was just me.
Greetings!
Ovnio
Skip’s line was…”No one comes back from Paradise. Except a slayer once”.