Just to keep things focused.
I find it interesting that whereas Obama picked a running mate who complemented the shortcomings in his slate–someone with a good deal of experience in foreign relations, for instance–McCain chose someone who will appeal to disenfranchised voting bases from both sides: to women who will see an opportunity to put a female a heartbeat from the presidency (and with a president of McCain’s years, that takes on a serious reality) after Hillary’s campaign ended in flames, and to the conservative base who will embrace a bottom half of the ticket who is apparently somewhere to the right of John Wayne.
The easy answer, of course, is that women won’t support her because she’s anti-abortion. Except there happen to be plenty of women who are likewise anti-abortion–yes, even Democrats–and therefore won’t find that a turnoff.
Frankly, I think Palin was a nervy choice that could reap serious benefits. And the timing of the announcement knocked all the post-convention attention away from Obama and onto McCain, which will now build as they roll into the GOP convention.
Personally, I find the notion of an anti-abortion, pro-drilling, pro-creationism, anti-animal protection vice president to be nothing short of terrifying. Then again, anyone that the extreme right embraces is by definition terrifying.
PAD
• 
Hm. Well this might interesting in that “McSame” is more disrespectful of the politician, as opposed to “lib-tards”, which is disrespectful of other people. I would hazard it is at least fractionally more acceptable to focus on the politician, since that IS part of what they signed up for.
And for the record, I won’t be waiting for any righteous indignation for the post before yours that accused me by implication of being a douchebag who is “just yapping because the sound of their voice lets them think they matter.”
Actually I wasn’t thinking of you when I made that comment–You haven’t been around long enough to really have earned the title. And your last few posts show a degree of class that a true douchebag would probably not be able to reach.
I think you will find that you really can have a good discussion here. You may find your opinions in the minority but that just means you will have to think hard before you write–better than talking in an echo chamber where there is no chance of having people call you on the carpet for sloppy thinking.
And you’ll learn not to rise to the bait every time some nutty troll tries to get your attention. A valuable thing to learn as it saves your time and really bothers the troll. 🙂
Check out this little nugget of conservative dignity and respectability from 1998, circulated by the Arizona Republic and the AP:
http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html
“Well, for my part, it seems I misjudged you. It takes a big person to admit a mistake. I hope you’ll consider sticking around. This blog is actually an interesting little community, and quite rewarding.”
Thank you for that consideration, Bill. And I truly appreciate the invitation. In all honesty, this is one of about a half a dozen blogs that I visit on a daily basis. Usually multiple times every day. I lurk at all of them because, as you might tell by my presence today, I can really throw myself into participation. I just don’t have the time. So, I almost always just choose to lurk rather than post. (The Palin issue means enough to me that I “de-cloaked.”) So, I kind of already know a lot of you.
However, maybe I could chime in once in a while. Thanks again.
“Actually I wasn’t thinking of you when I made that comment–You haven’t been around long enough to really have earned the title. And your last few posts show a degree of class that a true douchebag would probably not be able to reach.”
Then I am truly sorry that I assumed you were talking about me, Bill. Please forgive me.
Also, thanks for your welcoming attitude. Rest assured, I’ll be around even if you don’t hear from me.
And I’ve already apologized.
Honestly, I don’t think you have much to apologize for. Just know that you can expect to be, ahh, vetted when you say things around here. 😉
Check out this little nugget of conservative dignity and respectability from 1998, circulated by the Arizona Republic and the AP:
http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html
Just know that you can expect to be, ahh, vetted when you say things around here. 😉
But we won’t go after your kids. Well, most of won’t anyway.
And now they’re going after Obama’s parents. Bášŧárdš!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YooKkyikXw0
Well, you know, Terry Moran is right. If Barack Obama is indeed the son of a black man from Kenya and a white man from Kansas, that really IS a moment for the history books.
Also, publishers of biology texts will need to put out some revised editions in a hurry.
What’s so funny about it is that he’s clearly going for a Great Moment here and he blows the line in a way that ensures it could well be the line for which he will always be remembered. Oh well, stuff happens.
I see The Enquirer is claiming that Palin had an affair. No evidence but they certainly were right about John Edwards so…if there’s anything to it she could be toast. If not I think it could generate even more sympathy for her. An awful lot is riding on her speech.
At this point, I can’t guess what will happen next. I was wrong about Sara Palin getting the VP pick. I was wrong about how McCain would talk about her experience. I was wrong about her being able use accusations of child abuse to deflect the trooper scandal.
This whole thing blows my head apart. The more I read about her, the less I like. It’s even beginning to seem like the stuff I liked, fiscal conservatism, was overblown.
And now the McCain campaign has decided that any media scrutiny of Palin is sexism. It makes me want to cry.
Timothy Butler—nobody here cares about my feelings, and I’m a nice guy, so why would you expect then to give a s..t about yours?
The point is why are you here? If to discuss things in a rational manner, then fine. If to combat the Evil Forces of Liberalism, it ain’t gonna work here.
Timothy Butler has posted here many times before. I recognized his name, but not the vitriol. I see that he has made peace with a few of the others here, so I’ll let it go, too.
Well, all I have to say that this has been the most entertaining campaign I’ve ever seen…and not in a good way. Open mikes? Suing the Enquirer? Bleh.
Maybe the strategy is to pile it on so high that they’ll make EVERYONE tune out….
Timothy,
Thank you for your apology, and for the self-awareness needed to recognize when you’ve gone off the rails. It’s happened to all of us. 🙂
TWL
On a different note —
I was struck by something while watching last night, and I wondered if others felt the same way.
Apart from Fred Thompson, none of the main speakers knew how to give a speech to save their lives.
Bush has never been a great speechmaker (to put it mildly), but Laura? Lieberman? I thought they were all awful — forget the fact that I disagreed with a lot of what they said, but they were just not making their points well at all. Stepping on applause, mumbling key points … terrible, I thought.
Did anybody else feel the same way?
TWL
I only watched Fred Thompson and Bush.
Bush seemed worse than usual. It was very halting and stiff, where he’s usually able to inject a little sappiness or some swaggering confidence somewhere. When he did the, “McCain will let you know he disagrees, believe me, I know!” bit, it felt like a bad comedian going, “Take my wife. Please.”
Agreed.
Tonight, on the other hand, is certainly better from a speechmaking point of view. Michael Steele was quite decent, Romney was surprisingly good (if generally nasty to the core, which did NOT surprise me), and Huckabee seems to be electrifying the crowd. I may disagree with them, but they’re certainly making a good case tonight from a presentation point of view.
The theme for the RNC seems to be: when you don’t have a winning platform, blame the media.
Update: I missed much of Linda Lingle’s speech, but what I saw seemed pretty sleep-inducing.
Giuliani, on the other hand, just seems terrible. I’ll admit that I’ve thought he was a psycho for many, many years now, so I’m not likely to like him — but his speech is very halting and not especially well punctuated. The crowd likes him, but this is one I don’t think is going to play well to independents.
Palin’s up shortly. This one will be fascinating — after days of hearing about her, we finally get to hear FROM her.
TWL
Anything short of a total freeze and meltdown will be seen as a triumph.
BUt I think she’ll do considerably better than that.
Seems to be doing fine so far.
And yes, Piper (her daughter) is a cutie.
Bristol’s boyfriend looks like he’d like to be anywhere else, though.
TWL
Palin’s speech was written for her by a Bush/McCain speech writer. She’s been practicing it for at least a day. This isn’t a real test of anything other than public speaking ability.
That may be so, but it doesn’t change the fact that she’s delivering it quite well. I don’t agree with much of what she’s saying so far, but she’s getting in some good digs and amping up the applause.
I really had no doubt that she’d do well. I figured that the media would play up the expectations for her official unveiling, then she’d come out and be everything the people at the convention want her to be.
Tomorrow night will be very interesting. Most elections the Democratic convention was weeks in the past. This time McCain will speak one week after Obama, a bad comparison. If Palin, Thompson, and others are seen as giving rousing speeches that at least excited the base, that might make McCain look worse.
True.
I’m also not sure it was a good idea for her to invoke Harry Truman. Let’s remember that Truman was VP for about four months before his boss dropped dead of a stroke…
TWL
I’m amazed they they went off on Obama’s experience and then mocked people for going after Palin’s
She does not come across as particularly eloquent.
I’m amazed they they went off on Obama’s experience and then mocked people for going after Palin’s
I should be, but I’m not. McCain has harped on it so much that he had to continue to play that card, no matter how foolish it makes his ticket look.
What’s the biggest decision Palin has had to make in office? To decide to kill the “Bridge to Nowhere” project that wasn’t being funded anyways?
The sad part is, when you start getting into things like X years of this and that with Palin and how that’s experience Obama doesn’t have… McCain has never been in an executive position either such as mayor or governor. So it really just seems like such claims can only hurt McCain as much as they would hurt Obama.
Well, it was a flip flop from her 2006 campaign….that takes effort.
Palin was the first of thje major players to effectively use humor,I thought. It’s been a pretty humorless campaign so far, with some of the major players astonishingly unfunny. McCain knows one joke, Hillary could make The Best of George Carlin sound grim, Obama I think could be funny but seems to be afraid to use it, Biden at least has shown a little bit of self depreciation.
Palin’s got a little bit of that Fargo vibe going, you betcha.
I’ll make a prediction: after the vice presidential debate a lot of people are going to be thinking that the wrong person is at the head of the ticket on both sides. Which is unfair, since neither one would have been in this position had not their respective leaders chosen them. Biden has repeatedly shown an inability to win the primary and Alaskan governors seldom make it to the top of a ticket. I just have a feeling the VP debate has a lot more potential for good honest fireworks, entertainment all around (with some actual points made beyond the boilerplate).
Neither Obama or McCain ever exactly wowed me during the primary debates.
If McCain doesn’t give the worst speech from a major presidential candidate of the last few decades I’ll be impressed. It’s just not his strength.
Palin’s got a little bit of that Fargo vibe going, you betcha.
I still find it hilarious that people always refer to that movie for that accent, because it’s really only Minnesotans that seem to have it. Although I grant you that Fargo is right across from the Minnesota state border with North Dakota.
I know a couple of Minnesotans who grew up in the southern part of the state and they both have that accent. But nobody ever refers to it as that “Minneapolis vibe” or even “Duluth vibe”. 😉
I just wonder if she was playing to the locals, being in St. Paul and all.
“Tomorrow night will be very interesting. Most elections the Democratic convention was weeks in the past. This time McCain will speak one week after Obama, a bad comparison. If Palin, Thompson, and others are seen as giving rousing speeches that at least excited the base, that might make McCain look worse.”
Not only that, but Obama might actually steal McCain’s thunder by appearing on Bill O’Reilly’s show that same evening. I wonder if Bill-O will be able to keep from foaming at the mouth during that interview?
KET
KET,
You realy think Obama is going to steal McCain’s thunder by appearing on “The O’Reilly Factor”? You really think more people who are conservative or on the fence are going to opt for Obama vs. the Presidential candidate who best represents their interests this year, on the night he accepts his party’s nomination?
BTW, while I do give him slight credit for going on O’Reilly’s show, let me state 2 things:
1>) Hillary Clinton showed she was tougher by going on O’reilly’s show during the primary and facing tough questions.
2.) Seeing as how O’Reilly has had Clinton, Michael Moore and John kerry on and not foamed at the mouth, I see little reason why he would do so with Obama. He is far more centrist than Rush, Coulter and Hannity at any rate.
KET wrote:
“I wonder if Bill-O will be able to keep from foaming at the mouth during that interview?”
Uh-huh… Did “Bill-O” foam at the mouth when John Kerry appeared? No. When Hillary Clinton appeared? No. Why would you think he’d be “foaming at the mouth” for Obama? I’m sure he’ll treat him with respect like he’s done with previous higher-up Dems.
“You realy think Obama is going to steal McCain’s thunder by appearing on “The O’Reilly Factor”?”
We’ll just have to wait and see now, won’t we? Considering that McCain can barely keep people awake through some of his speeches, I kinda figure that fewer folks are probably going to tune into his predictible coronation ceremony anyaway.
“You really think more people who are conservative or on the fence are going to opt for Obama vs. the Presidential candidate who best represents their interests this year, on the night he accepts his party’s nomination?”
Gee, so when is that “Presidential candidate who best represents their interests” arriving? Oh, that’s right, Ron Paul wasn’t invited to speak.
KET
“Why would you think he’d be “foaming at the mouth” for Obama?”
Because Obama has been boycotting Faux News like the plague it is for quite some time now. It also appears that Murdock brokered a backroom deal just to get him to appear on the network.
In addition, Mr. “F**k it, we’ll do it live!” isn’t exactly well known for controlling his temper under pressure.
KET
It’s the prospect of the kill that would draw people in.
I don’t know if y’all saw that clip of the O’Reilly producer harassing Bill Moyers at a convention, and Moyers being forced to repeatedly respond that he asked O’Reilly to appear on his show first. But if Obama has the discipline and presence of mind to not distance himself from conservatives like Bill Mulligan — and NOT go for the kill like that — going on O’Reilly while McCain gives his speech seems like time very well spent for Obama. (However much Obama not going for the kill pìššëš øff O’Reilly.)
As for Palin, someone gave her the very, very good arguments for her speech. Debates are more liquid, seeking out vulnerabilities in your adversary’s positions while issuing attacks to lead away from your own. If the national issues were on the tip of her tongue, she could hope to do as well as Hillary did in what passed for debates in the primaries. But they aren’t, so the vp debate appears to be Biden’s to lose.
O’Reilly will be as friendly as a churchmouse to Obama, just as he was with Hillary. It’s far more important to him that he make his critics look foolish by doing so when they think he will be a rabid attack dog. O’Reilly really wants to be thought of as fair and balanced and he’s not going to give anyone ammunition to think otherwise. And Obama certainly isn’t going to provoke him. It’ll end with O’Rielly saying something about what a pleasure it was to have him here, don’t be a stranger, welcome back anytime and Obama agreeing that it was a perfectly lovely chat, must do it again sometime blah blah.
Still will be more interesting than Mccain’s speech, I think. I’ll be amazed if Palin isn’t the high point of the convention.
Other than his inconsistencies — like not letting his public chastisement of Jamie Lynne Spear’s parents for her pregnancy stop him from being Bristol Palin’s white knight — no, no ammunition at all.
He is far more centrist than Rush, Coulter and Hannity at any rate.
If “centrist” means saying whatever gets you attention, then you’re right. But then, it isn’t hard to be to the right of Rush and Coulter, either.
While he may not go after the likes of Clinton or Obama, he’s not been so reserved with other liberals in the past, or liberals in general.
Exhibit A:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijMRXLDZKFg
While he may not go after the likes of Clinton or Obama, he’s not been so reserved with other liberals in the past, or liberals in general.
Well, yeah. But the question was whether he would go after Obama like that. And I’d bet the answer is no. Does anyone really expect fireworks? Seriously?
If Obama wins, which is likely, O’Reilly will certainly want him or his surrogates on his show. Not gonna happen if he sandbags him tonight. Anyway, that’d be my prediction. Anyone else laying odds on a UFC smackdown?
When Bill O’Reilly goes on the Daily Show, he acts like a WWE bad guy. The crowd boos him, he sneers at them, and by the end of the interview O’Reilly actually has the crowd laughing at his jokes. His unpleasantness is played up melodramatically to the point that it just feels like he’s having fun with the audience.
This is what O’Reilly does. He’s an entertainer. When it is to his advantage, he works himself into a rage for his show. When he needs something else, he doesn’t.
It’s nice to see Timothy Butler show up here. I remember him from his flurry of posts on Tony Isabella’s site about 4 years ago. Good to know he’s still around and still a source of interesting opinions.
Hi Tim.
George Haberberger
This is what O’Reilly does. He’s an entertainer. When it is to his advantage, he works himself into a rage for his show. When he needs something else, he doesn’t.
I agree to a large degree.
But at what point do we draw the line between entertainer (and at least we all seem to agree he isn’t a real news reporter) and believing what you’re spouting?
Maybe my problem is that I’m not the type that can get myself into a lather defending something I don’t believe in, so I see it hard for others to do so as well.
Hey, George. Thanks for remembering me! I still see you on the Tony Board, but I didn’t know you hung around these parts. Yeah, I only very occasionally post anymore. Yesterday was a good example why. I can get too caught up. “Interesting opinions”? LOL Well, I don’t think “interesting” was a word being bandied around yesterday.
But I do feel a little bit vindicated today. Here’s what the AP was reporting from Biden this morning:
“Republican presidential nominee John McCain began his final drive for the White House on Thursday with a boost from running mate Sarah Palin while Democratic opponent Joe Biden declared her family “off limits” and suggested that some news media coverage of her had been sexist.”
On the speech last night, no surprise that I thought it was excellent. The interesting thing is that my wife started making noise about not being in favor of McCain/Palin before we tuned in. She’s considering voting third party. While the speech didn’t change her mind, she was very impressed with it. She commented that Palin had managed to go on the offensive while still projecting her “soft side.”
I do not envy Biden in the debates. He will be walking a fine line. He’s got to counter Palin’s attacks and get his own jabs in without coming across as being too tough on a woman. It is going to be quite a challenge.
Craig: But at what point do we draw the line between entertainer (and at least we all seem to agree he isn’t a real news reporter) and believing what you’re spouting?
Maybe my problem is that I’m not the type that can get myself into a lather defending something I don’t believe in, so I see it hard for others to do so as well.
Oh, he believes it when he says it. All the best entertainers do.
After watching the speech, I could definitely see voting for Sarah Palin as president of my local book club.
Otherwise she had the gravitas of a Mouseketeer. Perhaps it was her invoking of Harry Truman that pìššëd me off.
PAD
Personally, I didn’t think she had the gall to mention the lie about the bridge again. And I thought the mention of community organizers was arrogant and out of touch.
Palin sounded extremely arrogant. But I have mixed feelings about it.
I keep wondering why the more extreme conservatives always sound so arrogant, it annoys me and scares me. But at the same time I have a grudging respect for it, and wish some of the liberal candidates could get away with the same thing.
I’m not sure if it’s because the liberals don’t have the balls to be arrogant, or because in the current political climate an arrogant liberal would be off-puting and seem as a loony commie, while an arrogant conservative is “energetic” and “bold”.
Bush himself may have low approval ratings, but the conservative wave he rode on is still strong?
I haven’t watched her speech yet. I keep meaning to watch it online, but I haven’t been able to do it yet.
I really want to be objective about this, but I’m having trouble getting my head into an objective place. I don’t think my views about her so far are unjustified, but the things I’ve read have got me so worked up that I’m afraid I’m going to overreact to everything she says.
This is frustrating.