Two reasons:
1) From Obama’s point of view: There is no guarantee that it will unite the Democratic party, since those who were willing to support Clinton in the top slot might not do so with her in the second chair. There is a likelihood, however, that her presence could galvanize the GOP against her, which is exactly what Obama doesn’t want since McCain remains a candidate with soft support in the GOP. And it is problematic for Obama to sell himself as an agent of change when he’s got the symbol of Washington insider status quo as his running mate.
2) From Clinton’s point of view: According to the “West Wing” scenario, the young, vibrant, ethnic candidate chooses a Washington insider with close ties to a previous administration (and has one daughter) as his running mate who then dies on the eve of election. Why risk it?
PAD
• 
3) The Babylon 5 point of view: never put somebody in the VP spot who covets the power of the presidency more than you do.
TWL
Why would you want a woman who repeatedly revived the specter of political assassination as your VP?
I would have said a few days ago that there is no way Obama could be dumb enough to choose her…but I’m wondering now if he will have much choice.
She has put him in a bad situation by insinuating that she’ll take the spot if offered. If he gives it to her (assuming that we are all correct in the assumption that he really really really does not want to) she will have made him look weak and (as PAD points out) someone who has to bend to the will of the party insiders. Just another ambitious politician.
If he doesn’t it gives some of her more rabid followers yet another excuse to cut off their noses to spite their faces. Me, I assume they will all eventually come home to the party no matter what they say now–like all those folks who say they will leave the country if the wrong person gets elected, they manage to somehow justify doing exactly what you thought they would do come crunch time. But…I have to say, there is some real crazy anger out there on the part of many Hillary fans (unjustified, in my view–he won, she lost and there were several things she could have done to reverse that outcome. Although I suppose it’s even more aggravating when you realize that you (arguably) beat yourself).
I don’t see too many actually voting for McCain but they might stay home or even write in her name. Hillary, meanwhile, will campaign hard for Obama–in New York. Which is the same effect as doing nothing. since he will win New York with or without her. What he needs is for her to campaign in places like PA and West Virginia. If not the VP spot, what does he give her to get that?
Of course there is the verrrrry slime chance that something will derail Obama between now and Denver. One of the nuttier pro-Hillary bloggers claimed that a tape of Michelle Obama spewing anti-white bigotry was about to surface. Highly unlikely. If Hillary had the tape it would have surfaced by now. If the Republicans had it nobody would know about it until October. And Michelle Obama seems an unlikely candidate to be that stupid.
So it will be McCain vs Obama and if their speeches last night are any indication you can practice saying President Obama.
I’m going to predict he doesn’t pick her, despite the pressure. He’s gotten pretty dámņ far being his own man.
She has put him in a bad situation by insinuating that she’ll take the spot if offered.
To be fair, it’s not as if she volunteered that information in a speech. She was asked the question in the course of a conference call and said she would be open to it. What were her choices? To say “no” in which case she’s painted as being a sore loser who’s snubbing Obama, or be vague, in which case she’s tagged with being wishy-washy.
PAD
Wouldn’t you want the bottom half of your ticket to be someone that vast quantities of people don’t hate?
I mean, I don’t love Hilary Clinton myself, but let’s not pretend that there aren’t LARGE swaths of people, even in the Democratic party, who really, really, really, really, really HATE her. I mean HATE.
I would think a more inoffensive choice would be wiser. Not sure who that is right now. And has anyone anywhere in the history of anything made their voting choice based on the second name on the ticket anyway?
If not the VP spot, what does he give her to get that?
How about the promise of a Court nomination?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/20/AR2008052001571.html
Personally, I think that’s better suited to her skills and would be a creative solution to the dilemma.
TWL
Hmmm, that would certainly be a good thing for her…I don’t know if Obama really wants an enemy on the Supreme Court, given how often presidents of late have had their fates in large part decided by that body.
I ownder if this is an incredible game of chicken–she is asking to be asked but really does not want to be asked. If, as some have claimed, the Clinton’s privately believe that Obama is the one Democrat who is guaranteed to be beaten by McCain, she in no way wants to go down with that ship. So she puts out feelers but at the same time says things that ensure she won’t get the offer (Bill Clinton’s latest meltdown over that Vanity Fair article being the latest in a series of reminders of the kind of drama that even most Democrats have grown tired of).
Yeah but what then if he DOES ask her? How could she turn it down without hurting her standing in the party? And what a great story that would be-a guy who doesn’t want her making the offer and a woman who doesn’t want the offer having to take it. Can you imagine the looks on their faces when they both realize that they are in a corner that neither can escape from?
But I don’t think it will come to that. Fun to speculate though.
I agree. Hillary on the bench would be a formidable force. And who knows? Perhaps she might find a way to find wording in the constitution that says the government needs to provide health care.
PAD
A good deal would be if Obama promises to nominate her to the Supreme Court and to further nominate her to the Chief Justice position if the spot becomes available during his term.
It looks like making it past this next hurdle WITHOUT her as the VP is his next gauntlet. Can he do it? Man, I hope so.
[i] Of course there is the verrrrry slime chance that something will derail Obama between now and Denver. One of the nuttier pro-Hillary bloggers claimed that a tape of Michelle Obama spewing anti-white bigotry was about to surface. Highly unlikely. If Hillary had the tape it would have surfaced by now. If the Republicans had it nobody would know about it until October. And Michelle Obama seems an unlikely candidate to be that stupid. [/i]
I disagree on a few counts. First, considering some of the things Michelle Obama has said, I think she could be that stupid. Secondly, I don’t think McCain would sanction it’s use. To be sure, he would be advised to by party leaders, but I think he doesn’t want to go down that road. And lastly, Hillary could be holding out to it until its use became absolutely necessary. It could be her “dead man’s switch.”
Put her in charge of health care. Give her a position where she can really affect the direction of health care and insurance in this country. My only complaint with Obama is that I don’t think he’s on the same page as me with regards to health care. Edwards and Clinton are much closer to my position.
They put her in charge of health care before. She failed at it. Let’s not repeat that mistake.
(Putting her on the Supreme Court would not be putting an enemy on the court. Clinton and Obama are actually people who are much in agreement; they’re just opponents at the moment. But Clinton would have nothing to gain by going after Obama afterward.)
What, just two?
I don’t think she wants the job. She wants the offer (and she’d help in the northeast and Florida), but I don’t think she actually wants to spend another four years in the executive branch in a position of subservience. (And given the obvious animosity, do we really want the Oval Office to become a rehashing of Spy vs. Spy on a daily basis?)
But by the same token, I don’t think Obama can pick another woman for the ticket, because HRC’s going to take that personally. So there goes Sebelius (which is okay; she wouldn’t deliver Kansas anyway). I’d say it’s down to Bayh, maybe Webb, maybe even Clark. The former two bring Ohio, the latter is a salve against the inevitable flag-waving attacks and a measure of reconciliation as a Clinton loyalist. It’ll be interesting….
2) From Clinton’s point of view: According to the “West Wing” scenario, the young, vibrant, ethnic candidate chooses a Washington insider with close ties to a previous administration (and has one daughter) as his running mate who then dies on the eve of election. Why risk it?
There’s the other West Wingism here, though, and it is based on the fact that the Democrats were running to very qualified candidates for office, and that the main duty of the Veep is to be prepared to take over the Presidency.
I wish nothing but the best for Obama, and hope he wins and is President for 8 years and then acts like Carter and is a great *ex* President for another 50 years, but given Clinton is so qualified, he could pick her.
“And I’ve written down my one and only reason.”
(opens paper) “Because I could die.”
How about the promise of a Court nomination?
God, I hope not.
The appeal of SCOTUS is that it is supposed to be a non-political entity (despite Bush v. Gore, we try to hold that standard). Nominating one of the most politically charged politicians as part of a political deal would infuriate both sides of the ideological divide.
If not VP Hilary, I think that “Chief Justice Hilary Clinton” has a nice ring to it
If not VP Hilary, I think that “Chief Justice Hilary Clinton” has a nice ring to it
John Edwards
Yes, Sasha, but other “politically charged” individuals have gone on to be tremendously influential and respected members of the Supreme Court. Look at Earl Warren, for instance.
I’m not saying that it would be trivial, but it’s not like anyone could say during the confirmation hearings that they don’t know her views.
TWL
WTF? Supreme Court? Did that job description suddenly drop to only graduate from Law School?
PAD: “To be fair, it’s not as if she volunteered that information in a speech. She was asked the question in the course of a conference call and said she would be open to it. What were her choices? To say “no” in which case she’s painted as being a sore loser who’s snubbing Obama, or be vague, in which case she’s tagged with being wishy-washy.”
I have to disagree on this one. She’s been asked the VP question many, many times before. She’s always managed to politely avoid the question up until now. If she can avoid admitting that Obama is the presumptive nominee, then she can avoid answering a question she knows she’s going to be asked.
I do agree that she isn’t a great choice for VP. Republicans haven’t hated her as much lately because all her campaigning has been focused on Obama, but they’ll remember quickly. She’d be one of those VP nominees who takes the “attack dog” stance, saying all the nasty things that the Presidential nominee can’t. Mitt Romney has been auditioning for that role for a couple months now.
Really, I think most of the good that she can do as VP can also be done as a regular supporter. She’ll talk to her most ardents female supporters and say, “Is voting for McCain, a man who is for everything I’m against, is that really an act of support for me?” She has to campaign for Obama whether she’s the VP or not to avoid being labeled as a spoiler.
And lastly, Hillary could be holding out to it until its use became absolutely necessary. It could be her “dead man’s switch.”
That time has come and gone. Even if some incredible out of nowhere scandal were to knock Obama right out of contention, if there were even the slightest trace of Hillary’s fingerprints on it they would not nominate her. It’s too far gone now. Had a scandal happened a few months ago–maybe eben it the Wright imbroglio happened right before Iowa–the story might have ended differently.
I am surprised no one has mentioned her as secretary of state… her foriegn policy expertise would shine thru, and she is two heartbeats away from being president.
Obama – Edwards…. now THERE is a ticket I can get behind…. As I’ve said before, Hillary herself wouldn’t be so hard to accept, even as VP if she didn’t come with all the Baggage….
Bob A
God, I hope Obama doesn’t maker her his running mate.
A bit far-fetched, but what about-
The Ralph Nader Manuver: Hillary pressures Obama to make her VP so she doesn’t run as an independent. She wouldn’t win in a 3 way fight but she would threaten to take away just enough votes to give the White House to McCain, thus giving herself another shot in 2012.
That is a big stretch, because it assumes she would be willing to throw away a lot of her own money on a lost cause and she would be counting on the Dems forgiving her by the next election. I think she has the ego to make this a possibility, and a threat that Obama has to take into account.
If Reid is amenable, broker a deal for her to be chosen as Senate Majority leader next session.
Highly visible position, working closely with the administration, in the event Obama stumbles, leaves her in position to step up. In the event McCain manages to win, she’s in the block position. And, there is no confirmation process.
Besides, she’d be really good at it.
Only downside is a possible challenge in 12, but that may not be a bad thing either depending on how things go.
I think Hillary would be a terrible choice for VP. First, she would most definitely unite the Republicans/conservatives against the Democrats. (Remember: Early in the campaign, the Republicans were campaigning as if they’d definitely run against her.) Second, she has shown a bitterness and animosity (as I type this, she still hasn’t conceded defeat) that may not go down well with voters. Third, Bill Clinton has proved to be an embarassment a few times, and I suspect that would continue. And fourth, I think a ticket of a black man and white woman may raise the specter of this being a “token” ticket that would screw over white males (quite a large voting block) in order to focus on minorities.
ChicagoDon: “The Ralph Nader Manuver: Hillary pressures Obama to make her VP so she doesn’t run as an independent. She wouldn’t win in a 3 way fight but she would threaten to take away just enough votes to give the White House to McCain, thus giving herself another shot in 2012.”
The more overtly Hillary tries to “force” her way onto the ticket, the more she hurts herself.
In 2014 she’ll only be 66. That’s plenty young enough to run again. She does not want to go down in history as the person who causes Obama to lose in 2008, the year a mute/deaf chiuaua should have been able to beat the Republicans. Yes, it’s not that simple, but if Obama loses, memory of Hillary pulling “me or nothing” tactics will make democrats think of her that way.
Even the threat of “going all the way to the convention” is risky for Clinton. What happens if she actually does contest the FL/MI decision at the convention? Well, by that point we’ll already *be* at the convention, so the damage of not unifying the party as soon as possible will already be done, leaving her with no leverage. The most she’ll be able to ask for will be re-instating full votes for FL and MI, which will gain her a net of 30 more votes. Since Obama will be ahead of the magic number by over a hundred by then, asking for 30 more votes is basically begging for scraps. *And they’ll say no*. They have to punish the two states for jumping the gun, so she’ll ask for something that won’t even help her and she won’t get it. Threatening to go to the convention is a big deal, but *actually* going to the convention is setting her up to not only look petty, but also pathetic.
That is a big stretch, because it assumes she would be willing to throw away a lot of her own money on a lost cause and she would be counting on the Dems forgiving her by the next election.
I don’t see them ever forgiving such a thing. She’s be expelled from the party and they’d probably do anything they could to run someone good against her the next time her senate seat came up. Great premise but the highest of highly unlikely.
If Reid is amenable, broker a deal for her to be chosen as Senate Majority leader next session.
Apparently this has been mentioned and Reid is said to be extremely NOT amenable.
If, however, she is able to go back to the senate and work well with those who, to her mind, have stabbed her in the back (like Kerry), she may show the kind of leadership that could get her the job when Reid’s time is over.
He’d be stupid to ask her. Having Bill Clinton that close to the white house would damage Obama’s credibility as a leader. He’d be better off with Edwards or maybe even trying to cross party lines.
All he needs to do is appoint a female VP who isn’t Hillary. Then she has absolutely no leg to stand on.
Obama should pick Nader.
While I’m an Edwards supporter from way back, I’m not sure Edwards adds a whole lot as a Veep candidate. I’m also not sure Edwards wants it.
I do think Edwards is looking to be Attorney General.
All he needs to do is appoint a female VP who isn’t Hillary. Then she has absolutely no leg to stand on.
Scuttlebutt I’ve heard sez that one condition of successful Hillary defusion is that Obama not select any other woman for VP.
[shrug]
Best idea I’ve heard is make her the point person for healthcare reform under an Obama administration and hang her name on the legistlation. Legacy acheived!
Sasha, I’m not sure that the best way to get healthcare reform is to give it to Hillary. some of the people she will have to convince hanve already voted against her plans last time and that was at the height of her power.
VP, supreme court, senate majority leader, fooey. What HRC wants is to have her campaign debt paid off and you can be sure that the moment the Obama campaign agrees to do that she’ll officially concede, and not a moment before. Until that time she’ll keep the spectre of a rules committee challenge in August out there as a bargaining chip and stay officially in the race so that at least SOME money from the reality-challenged keeps coming in.
Sasha, I’m not sure that the best way to get healthcare reform is to give it to Hillary. some of the people she will have to convince hanve already voted against her plans last time and that was at the height of her power.
Besides ensuring a better plan, I’m sure oversight and a stamp of approval by an Obama administration would allow such legistlation to be viable, even under Hillary.
You guys have got it all wrong!
Hillary as VP is the only thing that will stop the lunatic white power racist fringe groups from taking a pot shot at the first African-American President.
Yeah go ahead and try assassinating me and Hillary is president!
Seriously now: The above was written in the spirit of farce.
I was initially pulling for Edwards in the ancient days of the primaries, but he bailed by the time Super Tuesday hit. I, for one, would love to see him in the Veep slot. Hillary is persistent, can’t knock that, but she has more baggage than the LAX.
Then again, making a big deal about Dan Quayle didn’t exactly keep Bush Sr. out of the office, did it? (Well, okay, for only one term, but still, I think Bush Sr. pretty much blew his chance for reelection all by himself.)
Sig asks: “…do we really want the Oval Office to become a rehashing of Spy vs. Spy on a daily basis?”
How about Inspector Clouseau and Kato?
Sasha saID: 00″The appeal of SCOTUS is that it is supposed to be a non-political entity…”
But it isn’t, in reality. Witness the recent ruling that said a woman could NOT sue for lost wages because her company was paying her less than the men doing the same work. Why? Because she didn’t file the suit within 180 days of getting the job. She didn’t find out until years had gone by. The company was very good at keeping that information from her. This was the Court going along with the Republican screed that there are too many specious lawsuits.
And given the current makeup of the Supreme Court, legalized abortion will soon be a thing of the past. I fully agree that there should not be as many abortions as there are, but all abortions should be performed in a hospital by trained professionals, not in an underground clinic by unlicensed people.
Jeff in NC saID: 00″WTF? Supreme Court? Did that job description suddenly drop to only graduate from Law School?”
If Alito and Roberts are qualified, Hillary is. So is Bill.
Hillary shouldn’t be the Vice President because she is too divisive. And she is a step back, not toward a new morning.
How about Inspector Clouseau and Kato?
I think that’s the current occupants.
TWL
Hillary?!
As VP?
The first thing that sprang to mind was an Americanized version of Macbeth – Hillary as Lady Macbeth and Bill as Macbeth.
‘Out dámņ spot… out I say!’
Truthfully the best thing Obama can do is to wait until the convention to pick his running mate. It will be very hard for the Hillarites to maintain their frenzy three months after their candidate has lost and with growing cries to unite behind the party’s nominee.
I like Edwards. I don’t know if they’ll go that way though because I don’t think he can help them in states where it will be close (Pennsylvania, Ohio, Texas, Wisconsin and Florida). I also like Chris Dodd and Bill Richardson but I don’t think they’ll be on the ticket either.
Aside from the zealotry of her fans, I think HRC would be more of a detriment than an asset to the ticket. Obama might be best served by considering a Blue Dog democrat for a running mate (ala Johnson to Kennedy).
If Obama is serious about Caroline Kennedy having input into his VP choice, Hillary should be toast after her recent mention of the RFK assassination.
Tim Lynch –
How about the promise of a Court nomination?
Maybe in some appeals court somewhere.
But the notion that Obama would nominate her to the Supreme Court, as some have suggested?
She’s not only unqualified for the job, but there would be a feeding frenzy in Congress on par with what happened with Harriet Myers.
ChicagoDon –
The Ralph Nader Manuver: Hillary pressures Obama to make her VP so she doesn’t run as an independent. She wouldn’t win in a 3 way fight but she would threaten to take away just enough votes to give the White House to McCain, thus giving herself another shot in 2012.
The big problem with that one is that if Obama calls Clinton’s bluff, then she either comes off looking like a fool, or she does try and run as an independent.
There’s no way she’ll win the White House that way either in this election, or in any election in the future. Once she makes that declaration, her political career is over.
Alan Coil –
If Alito and Roberts are qualified, Hillary is. So is Bill.
At least they both spent some time, any time, as an actual federal judge. And practicing law in some fashion in the time preceding that.
When’s the last time Clinton stepped into the courtroom in a capacity that didn’t involve being named in a lawsuit?
I’ve been trying to think of a high enough visibility cabinet-level position that would work but I can’t think of one. SecState is WAY out, not qualified for AG (Edwards, PLEASE), negative on SecDef or SecTreas, everything else is too low profile.
Anyone else come up with anything that would work?