Good news/bad news. Bad news is, I have a bowling league this evening so I will not be on hand to live blog the George Bush Misstatement of the Union. Good news is, Kathleen is going to step up and live blog it right here on this site, starting at or around 9 PM.
PAD
Kathleen here. I put my POV on this behind the cut.
9:01
Kathleen here. I am going to comment here. I am watching it on NBC currently but I may flip around a bit as this goes on.
9:03
This just in….Bush is not nostalgic that this is his last SOU address. Nor I think is just about anyone else except possible Rove.
9:05
Let’s get this show started! Here he comes. Of course with a blue tie.
OK any bets how long it is going to be before he starts talking? Apparently he has been practicing all weekend
Aaaand the winner is….who had 9:10?
Vigorous Debate? In what alternative universe?
We believe in the power of the individual? He does? Really?
He trusts us with our own money as long as he can dictate how we spend that money. Oooo a warning to do it his way or the high way.
He is pushing for those absurd tax cuts again.
9:14
And the Republicans stand and the Democrats sit.
But the stimulus package is is cheered on.
Oh now he is slapping them on the hands for things that have been done since time began.
We could use the word VETO as a drinking game tonight,
The collapse of the housing market in firmly because of Bush’s policies and the “look the other way” as money is being pushed around to make everyone’s bottom line look better.
His health insurance promise is a scam from word go. Anyone remember his idea for Social Security.
Ask a teacher No child left behind is a big ášš joke. States are being forced to teach to the test. There is no money for the school to do what the feds insist that they do by law.
Still trying to get school voucher in there.
Free trade with the countries that supply the most drugs to the US. That’s a great idea. Let’s get in bed with some more dictators since we saw how well that worked in Iraq and Iran.
Oh NOW he wants clean energy. Coal power is dead unless someone could come up with a new way to do it. OK we are talking about Nuclear Power again. That makes more sense.
Slow and stop Greenhouse gases….Like the Kyoto Treaty that we have STILL NOT PASSED?
Moral boundaries ? Oh Stem Cells and that mess. Buying Selling or patenting human being? Sorry the barn door is already open and the tissue is out.
Moral Judges? Oh PLEASE. I am going to lose my lunch.
He is still trying to get federal funding for religious organizations again.
Here is his run on Social Security again. My plan didn’t work so you do it.
Guest Worker program again. Didn’t get it last time and won’t get it this time. He just don’t get it does he? The congress doesn’t want to do it his way.
Are we going to talk about Iran? Not yet? Maybe later.
Justice to our enemies. *snort*
Is that what we are doing? Spreading the hope of freedom? I thought we were spreading the threat of terrorism.
Ah so rather than staying the course we changed it and sent more Americans into countries that don’t want us there. He is trying to prove that he did what he said he was going to do in the last year even though the Iraq government has not hit the minimum for continued funding. But he still wants more money and more bodies to throw at the problem.
Wait a minute…weren’t they on the run last year and the year before and the year before that?
Return on Success? What? That just is too vague for me to even comprehend.
So now if you don’t get what you need it is Congress’s fault not the Presidents? I call Shenanigans!
Oh good ONE group of people came home. Do you know how many are over there? Are about to have to go over there again? 20,000 is a drop in the bucket.
Shi’a, Sunni and Kurds are rebuilding together? Yeah each within their own tribe trying to keep the others from gaining anything.
There are problems there that will never be solved unless the Prophet himself comes back and sorts it out himself. (that quote given to me by a friend who’s family still lives in Bagdad.)
Here is the poke at Iran (with a side poke at North Korea)
Ah the Freedom Act! Let it DIE!!!!!!
Oooo look at the divide on that one. And the Democrats have the majority.
Sudan is mentioned as are some other troubled spots that are being ignored or given token respect by the world. Bad President no biscuit for you.
Here is the HIV part of the speech. The problem is that the virus is mutating and the numbers in new groups are increasing.
Vets do need more for what they did. And hey here is a wacky idea, stop pushing people out of the system for stupid reasons like creating the situation of dishonorable discharge to people who now have serious mental health issues. I hate how the veterans have been treated by our government.
Oooo Someone gave him a history lesson.
G-d help America and each one of us.
10:04 pm And we are done. Thanks for joining me during this viewing.
• 
I just can’t sit thru another one of these. What can this man possibly tell me that I haven’t already heard, and grown of, in the last 7 years.
I’ll just let myself imagine the possibilty of next year’s State of The Union being delivered by one Barack Obama…
9:26pm. Now he’s talking about supporting the physical sciences with more funding? This from the guy who constantly tried to suppress scientific material from his own administration when it conflicted with the right-wing agenda?
gene hall: I just can’t sit thru another one of these.
Luigi Novi: What about the last one of these? 🙂
9:36pm. Did he just pronounce “tyranny” as “tierney”? Was he make a reference to dictators, or that chick from ER?
I feel a great disturbance in the Force….as if a halfwit was preaching to the useless……
9:43pm. The surge troops are on their way home? When did this happen?
Kathleen David: Slow and stop Greenhouse gases….Like the Kyoto Treaty that we have STILL NOT PASSED?
Luigi Novi: Doing that would probably bankrupt us, and have no positive effect on global warming.
9:43pm. The surge troops are on their way home? When did this happen?
The longest deployment Bush could get the Pentagon to approve was fifteen months (extended from the one-year “extended tours” he’d stuck them on already). So, of course, as each unit hits the 15-month mark and gets rotated back to its home base, our Nitwit-In-Chief claims them as “surge troops” being “withdrawn”, because obviously the surge must have worked, or they wouldn’t be “withdrawn”, right? [rolleyes]
Do it by Friday and do it my way… Or you all die!!!!!!!!! Bwa-ha-ha-ha!!!!!!
“There are problems there that will never be solved unless the Prophet himself comes back and sorts it out himself. (that quote given to me by a friend who’s family still lives in Bagdad.)”
I doubt that would work. Remember the South Park episode where Jesus came back and the head of the Evangelical Christians locked him up? Same thing.
Oh, yeah, almost forgot – he’s also trying to get the Pentagon to reduce time home between deployments from twelve months to six.
On the so-called Patriot Act – I seem to recall that part of the basis on which it was sold to us was that it was just temporary, and would expire by ’06. Then by ’08. After all, we were assured, no one would want to permanently limit American freedoms…
I just laugh about him being the first leader in the history of the world to cut taxes while trying to fund a war….
“Absurd tax cuts”. Do you, or anybody else, want to pay more taxes? I have little regard for Bush, but giving more money to Congress doesn’t seem like a good idea. I enjoyed the rest of the free-form reaction to the speech, even though my reaction may have included venting at different times. Thanks for the entertainment.
Posted by: Jonathan (the other one)
On the so-called Patriot Act – I seem to recall that part of the basis on which it was sold to us was that it was just temporary, and would expire by ’06. Then by ’08. After all, we were assured, no one would want to permanently limit American freedoms…
I’m still anticipating internal passports by 20109 if another Republican Administration manages to steal the election … err … get elected.
Posted by: Dennis Donohoe
“Absurd tax cuts”. Do you, or anybody else, want to pay more taxes? I have little regard for Bush, but giving more money to Congress doesn’t seem like a good idea.
No, but intentionally cutting your income at the same time as you’re spending manymany billions on a useless war is an even worse idea.
This sort of logic is why, historically, the really big deficits have occured under Republican Administrations
I hope the next president goes back just doing this in writing. Its always so boring to say nothing of the clapping bs that they love to focus on. Its really lazy reporting at its finest. And the Democratic responds always makes Bush charming by comparison.
“Do you, or anybody else, want to pay more taxes?”
If tax rates were based on how much people wanted to pay, we’d have no roads, schools, or anything else.
Dennis – “‘Absurd tax cuts’. Do you, or anybody else, want to pay more taxes?”
Republicans/right-wing types tend to have this “cut taxes” mantra. Unfortunately the truth is, running a country costs money. And skimping on necessary expenditures will come back to cost you more in the long run. For example: in 2005 the American Society of Civil Engineers put out a report card on the nation’s infrastructure stating there would need to be $1.5 TRILLION spent over the next five years just to have things at a minimum acceptable safety level.
Shrub’s ‘solution’? Try to cut taxes of course.
Reality’s response? That bridge collapse in Minnesota. And expect more of the same as long as various levels of governments don’t get it.
http://www.asce.org/reportcard/2005/index2005.cfm
Posted by The StarWolf at January 29, 2008 08:13 AM
Reality’s response? That bridge collapse in Minnesota. And expect more of the same as long as various levels of governments don’t get it.
The bridge collapse was due to a design flaw in the gusset plates. It had absolutely nothing to do with tax cuts. So not a good example.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/16/washington/16bridge.html
The Dems in Minnesota were screaming this before the bodies were even out of the water.
Isn’t this thing usually given on a Tuesday or a Wednesday? Did they change it to a Monday so it would slip under the radar?
It’s Monday because Dubya’s trying to strike a blow against those killer robots from the future on NBC Monday nights.
Given that Federal funding for the physical sciences was cut in half this year in large part due to the President’s newfound love of the Veto, insisting Congress double it is like raising prices quietly and then loudly claiming to have a big sale (when you’re only dropping prices to where they started).
What fractures me is his call to support Veterans. Lessee…those would be the same vets who, if they were unable to complete their Iraqi tour because they were injured in the line of duty, had the army trying to screw them out of their enlistment bonuses. The same vets who, if they were found to have mental problems, dishonorably discharged and deprived of veterans benefits. Are those the veterans that Bush demands we support?
PAD
The dirty little secret of Washington is that for all the grandstanding over the budget, they are arguing over 1/10th of one percent of the budget. The rest (entitlements, defense, foreign aid) are all preset to begin with.
We are spending ourselves into oblivion – both personally and as a nation. Our personal savings rate is negative – we spend more than we earn each year. Congress isn’t helping with a “stimulus” that is a joke. The economists keep saying we need to pump money into the economy, and that the worst thing to do with this money is to pay down our debt.
What a joke. The BEST thing we could do is pay down debt. The average household has over $5000 in credit card debt alone, not to mention the house and car payments.
However, the media will help push the spend, spend, spend message to avoid a recession. At some point, though, this all has to be paid back.
Regarding the State of the Union. The one thing I really liked is the Executive Order to not spend earmarks. Presidents pre-Nixon had this power over the entire budget – it was essentially a back-door line-item veto. Unfortunately, Congress didn’t like this and explicitly removed this power from the Executive. It’s no coincidence that the debt starting really spiraling upwards in the Ford era and later. (http://www.marktaw.com/culture_and_media/TheNationalDebt.html)
I don’t know how much impact the Executive Order will have, but every little bit helps.
Someone please refresh my memory here… The last time that Georgie sent us the $600, didn’t we end up having to pay taxes on it?
If that is indeed the case, I think this “refund” is not a play to improve the economy, but a ploy to nudge those on the verge of a new tax bracket over the edge. That way the government makes more money.
To borrow a phrase from Dennis Miller, “…of course, that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong.”
I don’t know how much impact the Executive Order will have, but every little bit helps.
But I’ll wager that while Democratic pork will get halted and railed against, GOP pork will be ushered through the back door with nary a raised voice.
Posted by: Mark L at January 29, 2008 10:32 AM
We are spending ourselves into oblivion – both personally and as a nation. Our personal savings rate is negative – we spend more than we earn each year. Congress isn’t helping with a “stimulus” that is a joke. The economists keep saying we need to pump money into the economy, and that the worst thing to do with this money is to pay down our debt.
Who is going to pay for this “stimulus” package?
My understanding is $75,000 is the cut off for single. so anybody making more than that is in a round about way going to pay for the “stimulus”
Im not in favor of a redistribution of wealth when the Dems push it and certainly not in favor of it now.
But I’ll wager that while Democratic pork will get halted and railed against, GOP pork will be ushered through the back door with nary a raised voice.
Only because the Dems don’t object to pork. Look at the self-proclaimed “Pork King” Robert C. Byrd of West Virginia. He never met pork that he didn’t like.
I like the Republicans when they stand for cutting spending, but they never do it. I like the Democrats when they pay-as-they-go, but they never object to a single program, either. It just reinforces how much we need a third party.
“If that is indeed the case, I think this “refund” is not a play to improve the economy, but a ploy to nudge those on the verge of a new tax bracket over the edge. That way the government makes more money.”
Gaining $600 is not going to cost you an extra $601 dollars in taxes. The tax brackets don’t have jumps that big. You don’t see people going to their bosses and saying, “Please don’t give me a raise, I can’t afford it!”
Gaining $600 is not going to cost you an extra $601 dollars in taxes. The tax brackets don’t have jumps that big. You don’t see people going to their bosses and saying, “Please don’t give me a raise, I can’t afford it!”
Actually, I quit a part-time, online job a few years back because it did push me over just enough not to be worth it.
Posted by: Jason M. Bryant at January 29, 2008 11:07 AM
Gaining $600 is not going to cost you an extra $601 dollars in taxes. The tax brackets don’t have jumps that big. You don’t see people going to their bosses and saying, “Please don’t give me a raise, I can’t afford it!”
but it will cost someone else (higher tax bracket)
$601 or am I missing your point? Remember thats $600 per person + $300 per child if I understand it right.
Posted by: Christine at January 29, 2008 11:14 AM
Actually, I quit a part-time, online job a few years back because it did push me over just enough not to be worth it.
I work with some nurses who will only work 4 double shifts in a pay period because anything more puts them in a bigger tax bracket.
> You don’t see people going to their bosses and saying, “Please don’t give me a raise, I can’t afford it!”
Sure you do. A now-retired co-worker stopped doing overtime because he realized he’d wind up with LESS take-home as a result of being nudged into the next bracket.
> “The bridge collapse was due to a design flaw in the gusset plates.”
Design flaws can often be fixed. But first they have to be spotted. Both take money.
Posted by The StarWolf at January 29, 2008 11:50 AM
“The bridge collapse was due to a design flaw in the gusset plates.”
Design flaws can often be fixed. But first they have to be spotted. Both take money.
Did you actually read the article?
All right, it can happen sometimes.
But for the government to actually make money on this, they’d need it to happen so often that *on average* everyone pays at least $601 of taxes. So for every person who isn’t nudged into the next tax bracket, someone else needs to get $600 but pay an extra $1201. And that only adds up to a grand profit of 50 cents per person for the government.
Seems like a pretty unlikely money making scheme.
Oh, Jesus, there he goes—gettin’ all political again.
Whatsamatta, not enough WORK ta keep ya busy?
Jesus, its just a 4-8 year JOB folks!!!! He/she’s not a friggin’ KING!
Y’all act as though we’re electing Dr. DOOM or something…
I don’t give a rats ášš who thinks they’re gonna run this country. They’re all the same. Nothing’s EVER gonna change.
Once they get into office, they go into their own little world and don’t give a SHÍT about us.
Why not find something better to do with your time? You do realize that the more you pay attention to these politicians, the more they’re gonna tell you what you wanna hear.
Jesus, talk about the Red Hulk or something–get off this crap
Hey—now THERE’S an idea for a comic–a society where, if the leaders don’t really–and I mean REALLY–do the will of the people, they get a bullet thru the head.
They won’t know where or when.
We could call it “The Oswald Mandate” or something.
Are there two words used more often that have come to MEAN LESS? Freedom and Patriot. Buzzwords for “patriots give up their freedom”. Gawd.
Sure you do. A now-retired co-worker stopped doing overtime because he realized he’d wind up with LESS take-home as a result of being nudged into the next bracket.
Ok, now I’m confused–I was under the impression that, say, the first $20,000 would be taxed under one rate, then the next $50,000 under a higher rate, etc etc. So while a raise might be taxed higher than the money you were making before, there’s no way you could possibly end up with less take home pay.
Am I wrong about this?
Bill Mulligan—
Yes, you are right. But what happens in reality is that a person’s take home pay can be affected. What most reasonable people don’t take into consideration is that they gat more back in the spring on their refunds.
Bill Mulligan—
Yes, you are right. But what happens in reality is that a person’s take home pay can be affected. What most reasonable people don’t take into consideration is that they get more back in the spring on their refunds.
Anybody else notice that the unreasonable nutjobs have returned to this comment thread?
What, you’ve got nothing better to do in life than come around here trying to flame the place?
Get a life, losers!
Anonymous wrote:
“I don’t give a rats ášš who thinks they’re gonna run this country. They’re all the same. Nothing’s EVER gonna change.”
=====
You are so right. In fact, in the end, we are all gonna die. Doesn’t matter who we are. Nothing’s EVER gonna change that. Why bother to even try to go on living. In fact, I am gonna go kill myself right now so that it doesn’t happen in the future.
{{sarcasm off}}
A classic mike tpoy:
“… I’m still anticipating internal passports by 20109 …”
Obviously that ought to be “2109” … errr … “2010”
Posted by: Pat Nolan
Anybody else notice that the unreasonable nutjobs have returned to this comment thread?
What, you’ve got nothing better to do in life than come around here trying to flame the place?
Get a life, losers!
————————————-
If you give a šhìŧ enough to care about flamers and can’t stick to the conversation, then maybe you’re the one that needs to get a life.
“You are so right. In fact, in the end, we are all gonna die. Doesn’t matter who we are. Nothing’s EVER gonna change that. Why bother to even try to go on living. In fact, I am gonna go kill myself right now so that it doesn’t happen in the future”
———————
So die already, coward.
OK Knock it Off.
Please ignore that Anonymous individual.
New Rule: If someone shows up it is OBVIOUS that they are there to troll, they are to be ignored.
Got it?
“So die already, coward.”
Okay, so maybe I was a bit fatalistic. I tend to be a social realist, and since I live in Washington DC, Political talk is so commonplace here I’m surprised we don’t all wipe our áššëš with the Washington Post.
But hëll…..I’ve lived here for years now, its always the same thing. Doesn’t matter if the President is Democrat or Republican.
I’m really beginning to think that the only way there is going to be real change, is if there’s another revolution–maybe one with a real democracy where the people actually DO have a say in things.
I mean Jesus, Politics these days has sunk so low that its beginning to look like just another reality TV show.
I’m just sick of it. Nothing ever gets done.
So, leave some bullets in that gun, Alan, I may need it.
“Ummm, if you make $60,000 and your taxes go up one percent (and tax bracket jumps are more than 1%), that’s $600…”
As someone already pointed out, your rebate will be bigger, too. By even if there are a few people that the math works out bad for, the vast mojority will come out ahead. Thus making “giving away money” a pretty bad money making scheme for the goverment.
Posted by mike weber
Well, not exactly – it *was* a design flaw, but (i may have this wrong, but it’s consistent with engineering realities with which i am familiar) it was a design flaw that allowed gradual weakening of the structure that could have been caught by a proper program of inspections.
Could we split hairs any thinner?
1http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/washington/15bridge.html?ref=us
Thus making “giving away money” a pretty bad money making scheme for the goverment.
No argument, though you have to admit, our government has not been very good with money-making in the first place. My comment was more tongue-in-cheek than serious.
I just find it incredibly annoying that they give out these “refunds” then want to charge tax on the “refund.” If they need the money (or part of it) so badly, then why play this absurd game.
Besides, I know many people use it to pay down debt or help with property taxes, not stimulate the economy.