So he said that Syria has to get the Hezballoh/Hizballoh/Jew-hating bášŧárdš to “knock this šhìŧ off.” So what? Syria SHOULD get them to knock this šhìŧ off. Leaders of terrorist countries and organizations use vile and hateful speech to denounce Israel and describe their intentions, and the media is making a cause celebre because the president of the United States said they should knock this šhìŧ off? I can just see the presidential apology: “I’m sorry for saying that Syria should get Hezballoh to knock this šhìŧ off. That could possibly have been misinterpreted since they treat the Israelis and human lives like šhìŧ, so they might have thought that I was encouraging them to kill Jews. What I should have said is that Syria should get Hezballoh to knock it the fûçk off.”
PAD
(Edited 12:16 PM to get the quote right)
• 
And this my friend is why we continue to have this conflict. Because people believe that the guns can save us. There is a point to be made that while the weapons may have cut the Axis powers down, it didn’t save humanity at all. Rather now we’re stuck with a military industrial complex in the US that now threatens us all in very real ways.
Well, by “saved humanity” I meant savedit from whatever unimaginable horrors a victory by the Axis would have entailed. Nothing will “save” us if by that we mean the elimination of all evil and suffering on Earth.
And if you think it’s the US military industrial complex that is the greatest threat today, we are pretty far apart in our outlook.
reading up on Ghandi I was struck by the thought that if he were alive today he would be regarded by many of those who profess to admire him as a nut. Some of his beliefs are almost worthy of Pat Robertson style craziness–thinking that an Earthquake was God’s vengeance on India because of Hindu treatment of the Untouchables, that sort of thing.
Me, I believe in judging people by the standards of the times and their culture (within reason. Ya gotta draw the line somewhere) but I just wonder how far Ghandi would get in today’s world.
Spiderrob says:
“…thta have allowed a proud people and history with a long culture to stagnate in a cesspool of nothingness, with little to add to the world in terms of culture, science, political theory, entertainment, business, except oil and that’s about it.
When they grow up and join us in the 21st century, (instead of modeling themselves off the 15th), there will be peace, and people can reasonably negotiate and work things out with other people.”
I’ve heard and read things like this for some years, mostly from americans. I have also seen Bill O’reilly express in such terms (yes, even here some of us watch Mr.O’reilly show with morbid fascination. Sort of like watching an ideological car crash). To me is obvious that people who defend this point of view have had little if any contact with arab culture, and know little of contributions out of his inmediate area of reference.
I am not an expert myself, but I would recomend to read about Pan-Arabism and how Saudi-sponsored wahabist Islamism undermined a thriving modernization of the whole Arab cultural sphere.
“Well, someone accused me of beign a terrorism apologist.”
Don’t feel too bad. At least you weren’t tarred with the anti-semitism brush. Yet.
“I actually was sort of impressed with Bush, mostly because he was actually talking policy with someone. “
Given the conversation started ‘Yo, Blair” and went on to provide a fine example of what a totally whipped lickspittle wussoid my nation’s elected leader is, that may be a slight overstatement…
Or maybe not.
sigh.
At least you guys have an organ grinder instead of being stuck with the monkey!
Cheers.
1The amazing thing about the line of thinking that it wouldn’t work is that it’s coming from someone on a comic book writer’s blog. I mean, if superheroes should teach us anything, it’s that you do the right thing without worrying about whether it’s gonna be successful or whether it puts you into harm’s way but rather just because it’s the right thing. What happened to that? Think I’m nuts? Living in a fantasy world? Maybe, but again, Ghandi achieved his goal so it’s been proven successful.
****
I am not sure where you get this from. If you were going to take lessons from super hero comics, it would be when bad guys attack, or are even around, you try and beat the crap out of them no matter how much damage and destruction it causes to the city around you, while doing your best to minimize civilian casualties. But lets be serious. Spider-man doesn’t turn the other cheek with the Green Goblin. he beats on him and throws him into building, buildings which contain people as they crash down around them.
I am not saying we should take those lessons. But that’s the lessons they teach. Supertheroes aren’t pacificsts. They are vigilantes
Also have we not learned that if I hit you and then you hit me and I hit you back, it goes on forever but if one of us stops, we might end up with some loose teeth but we can move on?
****8
Sometimes. Sometimes when they bully pops you, and you pop him back in the nose, the bully stops and reveals himself to be a coward.. You never know what will happen. Sometimes the bully shoots you.
I just hope if someone comes into your house and tries toi kill you or your family, you try and do more than turn the other cheek and reason with them. It would almost certainly not work.
Looking at spiderrob’s comment up above mine, I have to point out two things. The attacks of September 11th happened, not because of police failures, or should I say SOLELY because of police failures? The police aren’t in charge of screening they who enter this country, they who wish to take flight training, or they who board an aircraft. If the police WERE in charge of that, I’m sure I wouldn’t want to live here. I don’t know too man people that would.
****
Police tactics i was talking about, not local police officers. FBI tactics are police tactics. Investigating, arrests, prosecution was not enough. That is why 9/11 happened (and because their are psychos in the world). The fact that on 4 occasions our people had to check with lawyers to see if they could take out Osama, that is why 9/11 happened (by the time they got the ok, he was gone). What will prevent more 9/11s is not simply police tactics, though they play a role. Had we not just prosecuted those responsible for the first Twin Tower bombing, and looked at the BIG picture, and taken military steps as well as other steps, the second one might not of happened
Well, I think no one ever said US “war on terror” is a well planed or succesful one. No one but US goverment and their apologists, that is.
***
Still haven’t been attacked again, while others have been.
That makes it something of a success to me, though we could do better.
1Well, someone accused me of beign a terrorism apologist.
****
No, just someone who will pay lip service “Terrorists are bad” and then spend half an hour writing why people responding to terrorist are worse, or making excuses. “I’m not making excuses, but….” and then proceeds to make excuses.
It should be almost the opposite “So and so did the wrong thing in response, but…” and then a half hour condemning the terrorists.
There is a point to be made that while the weapons may have cut the Axis powers down, it didn’t save humanity at all.
****
Tell that to all the Jews who survived because of the military, and all the Jews who died because people didn’t act militarily sooner. as well as all of the other people. A military response earlier, would have saved millions of lives. We would not have known that of course. and we would have the same type of people saying “That attack on Hitler’s Germany, my God, that was a soverign nation, it killed hundreds of thousands of people.” and saved tens of millions, but we would never know that, we could never be sure.
Sasha wrote: There’s a difference in taking two suspects into custody and crossing a border and attacking soldiers (killing several in the process).
Frankly I see little difference. The IDF has killed thousands of Palestinians over the years. Most of these are not “terrorists”. From a Palestinian POV, you could argue that Hamas have detained an Israeli terrorist.
Also, Israel currently holds over 9,000 Palestinians in detention of one sort or other (300+ are juveniles). Hamas holds 1 Israeli soldier. A slight imbalance I would suggest.
Steve
“…someone who will pay lip service “Terrorists are bad” and then spend half an hour writing why people responding to terrorist are worse, or making excuses. “I’m not making excuses, but….” and then proceeds to make excuses. “
I get it. We should be here stating the obvious (terrorists are bad, Israel is an enlighted state with a right to defend itself…) and agreeing. I dont need to excuse myself for not abhorring terrorism publicy in every comment I make. I stated my oppinion on that and I am now commenting on Israeli response (and I have said this way too many times) because I think is negative. Negative for Israel security interests in the long term, negative for the prosperity of the area and negative because it undermines the image of Israel as a model for other developing countries. Its my oppinion, wich I share with people who can’t in any way be labeled as terrorist apologizers. You disagree with my analysis? great, tell me why and we discuss it. But instead you choose to simply say “you excuse terrorism”.
Tell me where.
I dare you.
You have still not given me any awnser as to why bombing a christian neighbourhood with no ties to Hezbolah is a tactical step in a war against that terrorist group.
For starters, just because it’s a Christian neighborhood doesn’t mean squat. Groups like Hezbollah have as much of a beef with Christians as they do with Jews. There is nothing to say that Hezbollah wasn’t also intentionally hiding out in that neighborhood (not to mention the fact that Christians in Lebanon have been the target of attacks in the last couple of years as well).
If arms or munitions were hidden in that neighborhood, and according to one article I finally found, that may have been the case, then it’s not hard to see why Israel considered it a target.
In fact US presence in Irak can be considered “exhibit A” in the case against military solutions for terrorism.
*sigh* I give up. I honestly do.
You think intelligence and military commandos can deal with terrorism, and I believe that to be extremely naive.
What I defend is not a land strike (although usually these are most precise victim-wise) but a combination of intelligence and investigation with precise strikes.
What the hëll do you think Israel is doing with their missiles!?
Precision strikes!
This isn’t WWII, where the Allies and Germans carpet bombed cities such as London and Berlin, truly being indiscriminate as to who was targetted and killed.
You seem to want it all ways.
Hezbolah doesnt have armor nor bunkers,
I don’t know where you get this notion that Hezbollah doesn’t have bunkers. Didn’t Israel drop several bombs on a bunker in an attempt to get Hezbollah’s leader a day or two ago?
But these kind of things, even if cheaper than air strikes, are slow and require more planification.
Do you know how many times the US government thought they’d managed to kill al-Zarqawi before they finally pulled it off (using a buttload of bombs, no less)?
They came close several times. Yet, al-Zarqawi was always on the move. This may have been the only way they were ever going to get him.
It’s called “Window of Opportunity”. You take it as it comes, or you pass it by. When you’re dealing with figures like al-Zarqawi, who are always on the move, a ground operation is NOT likely to succeed.
How is a one ton bomb on an apartment building a “precission srike”? I am not naive since I realize the way I suggest is harder and more prone to failure. I didnt rule out air strikes as you rule out commando operations, I just think the tougher way pays in the long term.
And about christians in Lebanon… them beign victims of attacks by hezbolah justifies them beign targeted also by Israel? So if Hezbolah hides in a christian neighbourhood so you attack them and kill also their enemies… you think thats just what needs to be done, precisely what the terrorist planned? That’ll teach them.
See, the military approach has been tested by Israel many times. It works with rogue states with ill motivated armies, but it never bore any fruit when it came to terrorism. So maybe its time to change tactic.
Yes, negotiations, UN interference, peace talks, and the like have always gotten Israel so so much
UN “interference” got them a country, peace talks and negotiations got them a lasting peace with Jordan and Egypt.
Tell me where.
I dare you.
***
You’ve made excused for Iran, you’ve made excuses for the support of Hezbollah, you’ve made excuses for palestinian terorism. It’s in almost everyone of your posts which I just read. Complete and total understanding for why some would support and/or engage in terorism, with lip service to the very real victims of terrorism, and none for any actions by Israel or others except sending in commandos and “targeted” bombing,
About as sophisticated analysis as a Rambo movie, where Rambo can take down the Vietnamese or Russian armies all by himself.
Movies have made people think things are easier than they are. In real life, you don’t get a couple of Sly Stallone’s and Arnold Schwarzenneggers together, get a couple of bombs and missiles that are so sophisticated, they are guaranteed not to miss, and problem solved.
1UN “interference” got them a country, peace talks and negotiations got them a lasting peace with Jordan and Egypt.
\******
Yes, and oh, war too. Whaddya know?
Their own nation-the UN and their war for independence. Fought against Egypt and Jordan, among others. Oh and war again in the 50s with Egypt. Oh and war again in 1967 and 1973
Those negotations came on the history of that, with some realization tnat Israel would not be destroyed, at least not easily,
Posted by The StarWolf at July 18, 2006 11:46 AM
“Now being the raving loon that I am, I’d be tempted to cut the south loose. “You do not wish to obey the legitimate government? Fine. You are no longer part of Lebanon. Have fun.” And then watch as Israel takes over for real and solves the problem for me.”
Sounds almost reasonable, except that Syria and/or Iran would step in, Israel feels REALLY threatened now and, Bob’s-yer-uncle, atomic parking lot. Iran might have nukes, Israel does have nukes, and Iran’s president has made abundantly clear he would like to see Israel turned into a memory.
I like the thought, though.
“You’ve made excused for Iran, you’ve made excuses for the support of Hezbollah, you’ve made excuses for palestinian terorism. It’s in almost everyone of your posts which I just read. Complete and total understanding for why some would support and/or engage in terorism, with lip service to the very real victims of terrorism, and none for any actions by Israel or others except sending in commandos and “targeted” bombing,”
erhm…no? I have not excused terrorism in any way, in any post. Not even partially and of course never “complete and total”. What I have done is point not at how terrorist organizations are born, but as how they get new recruits and how certain conditions make it easier. That doesnt excuse those who chose to go terrorist but not to aknowledge that and include it in your long term tactics is, in my opinion, against Israel best interests.
Unless, of course, you equal my dislike for civilian suffering for a support of terrorism.
And again, please refer any of my texts in wich I have supported, excused or minimized terrorists actions.
How is a one ton bomb on an apartment building a “precission srike”?
As I said, they’re not carpet bombing Beirut, are they?
them beign victims of attacks by hezbolah justifies them beign targeted also by Israel?
Quit being deliberately obtuse and then maybe you can see why people are having a hard time discussing this with you.
Christians are not the target of Israel’s attacks. Nor are Lebanese citizens. Hezbollah is.
So maybe its time to change tactic.
Well, the last thing I see you doing is offering up any useful ideas on what sort of tactics should be used beyond the basic “intelligence and covert operations” that any sensible army uses.
You have not offered up a single way method as to how Israel should deal with Hezbollah that doesn’t involve sitting back and watching more Israelis get slaughtered for the sake of political expediency.
I’m alive and relatively well. I decided to stop participating in online discussions since the war was stressful enough without having to defend my existence + I said everything that needed to be said + it is not going to acheive much at this point.
Shlomo Ben Ami is a good man, as well as the former Israeli Ambassador to Spain and a Historian of Spain. Unfortunatly his political career went down the toilet together with many other people who were involved in trying to reach peace but ended up being swept by the subsequent war. Like all of them he wrote a book blaiming everybody else.
Olmert was mayor of Jerusalem. He was also right wing. Unfortunatly, many Israeli leaders move to a more peacenik approacjhafter having wasted many years supporting the wrong policies, while people who were well meaning to begin with never get enough power, partially because they are considered blind to the threats of terrorism and arab insincerity. Sadly, they often are.
So we have a paradox. Israelis will not support a real peacnick as long as they are threatened by constant terrorism, but will support peace if it is on the table. But, even when peace seems maybe but inconclusively to beon the table, so is terrorism, and its message is much clearer.
OK, I’ve said more than I wantyed. See you after the war. If there is a suicide attack in Jerusalem (one was prevented) I’ll post that I’m alive.
1″Now being the raving loon that I am, I’d be tempted to cut the south loose. “You do not wish to obey the legitimate government? Fine. You are no longer part of Lebanon. Have fun.” And then watch as Israel takes over for real and solves the problem for me.”
****
I had the same thoughts while studying the history of the American South
El hombre Malo, I do not want to argue with you. this is a tough situation, and maybe I was reading into your posts some things that others with similar ideas have really meant, and that was not fair to you.
This is some academic exercise-real people like Micha are affected, and I am not going to argue about it anymore. I may post a thought or two but no arguments.
Micha good luck to you and your country. I wish you well, and am glad you seem to be away from the biggest threats, relatively, but am sorry your country is facing this. Be well and my prayers are with you!
Well, first – thank you for posting, Micha. And I can see why you have better things to do than participate in this discussion, which has the luxury of being just theoretical debate for the rest of us. Take care.
El hombre Malo – speaking as one person who, until now, has only read this thread (and I have read every post, in this and the “Not gonna end well” thread, too), I recognize that you are not at all endorsing or supporting terrorist actions. You are questioning some of the methods of response, and raising several very good points.
My own thoughts: Isreal, as often stated by other posters, has many enemies whose stated goal is no less than its destruction, possibly to the extent of wiping out its entire population. It has the right to defend itself against attacks, and the kidnapping of soldiers and the consistent missle strikes constituted an attack which needed to be met.
But some of the specific targets chosen – such as water supplies, the airport – do seem of questionable value. Attacking Lebanon is not the same thing as attacking Hezbolah. Some of these strikes seem more appropriate for conquering a country than attacking a terrorist element. Hezbolah may have some seats in the Lebanese government; but equating all Lebonese citizens as terrorist supporters, and justifying whatever happens to them through that equation, is a little too close to saying an attack on the US is justified, because “we,” as though we’re all one big block, elected officials who sent soldiers into Iraq who have killed civilains, sometimes apparently deliberately. The argument is appalling and doesn’t wash either way.
Again, I do feel that Isreal has been forced into action in Lebanon at this point; and I feel that there is no justification for the missle strikes or kidnapping of its soldiers which led to this conflict. There are just some cases in which particular responses seem more harmful to the Lebanese without any significant harm being inflicted to the terrorists. (As far as commando strikes go – is there a commando force in the world which has historically been more successful than the Isreali?) To not question any Isreali military moves, in the name of supporting the country’s overall right to defend itself, seems too close to me to the move in the US immediately after Sept. 11th to suppress any questioning of the government as somehow wrong. A good nation should never need unquestioning support.
“Unfortunatly, many Israeli leaders move to a more peacenik approacjhafter having wasted many years supporting the wrong policies, while people who were well meaning to begin with never get enough power, partially because they are considered blind to the threats of terrorism and arab insincerity. Sadly, they often are.”
That’s an interesting thing–I guess it’s another example of the old Klingon proverb “Only Nixon could go to China.”
(By the way – I wrote my post before reading spiderrob8’s last two posts; so the first part of my post is echoing spiderrob, not copying 🙂 )
Glad to hear Micha is ok.
Since this thread began after some comments Bush made, I wouldnt like it to end without me stating that even tho I voted for my president, Zapatero, and usually support his take on international issues, he should have been less naive and never allow anyone to put a palestinian scarf around his neck. At least, not right now, as he did two days ago. It was tactless, and Israeli ambassador was right in expressing his protest. International media sure didnt cover it much, but I know these gestures are hurtful to Israel citizens, specially sefardi community, who allways showed love for Spain and its culture.
Well, it looks as though this thread is winding down. In retrospect, my posts in this and the “This is Just NOT Gonna End Well” thread were not my finest moments. I’m dismayed by how easily I cast aside logic in favor of emotional rhetoric, and how easy it was to fall into the trap of belittling others.
I think we have all inadvertantly shown, in microcosm, why the hëll it is so hard for human beings to get along peacefully. When we disagree, tempers flare. For most of us, these issues are abstractions, because we don’t live in the Middle East. But the people in that region live this stuff, day in and day out. So moving from tempares flaring to acts of violence is not a very large leap in my estimation.
I continue to hold to the viewpoint that Israel is doing what is necessary to ensure some modicum of national security. I also continue to hold that groups like Hamas and Hezbollah are to blame for the cycle of violence by virtue of their refusal to abandon their fanatical devotion to killing Israelis as a way of life.
That said, it is neither fair nor logical to belittle those with whom I disagree as believing that the problems of the Middle East can be solved with a “pie-in-the-sky pass-another-joint give-peace-a-chance teach-in.”
And so, I would like to address the following people, in case they are still reading this thread:
Micha, may you and yours be safe. I pray that this war can be ended quickly so that the loss of life on both sides can be stopped.
El hombre Malo, I was indeed unfair to accuse you of “excusing terrorism.” I am sorry. I disagree passionately with your views, but that does not excuse distorting them. I believe we have reached a point where we would be best served to agree to disagree. Thank you for sharing your viewpoint, though.
lorshas, if you are still reading this, I hope you can accept my sincerest wishes for your continued well-being. As I said, neither of our nations is truly innocent, but you and I are both individuals who cannot possibly bear all of the responsibility for the collective missteps of our respective nations. We can, however, do our part, however small, to make things better. Your posts have reminded me of that.
Den, be well. I was severely depressed at one time and know what a struggle depression can be.
Bill Mulligan, you couldn’t possibly be Jewish. Your blue skin and antennae give you away as an Andorian, my friend.
That’s an interesting thing–I guess it’s another example of the old Vulcan proverb “Only Nixon could go to China.”
Fixed it for ya!
🙂
“lorshas, Wikipedia is far from my only source of information. I have a college education. I read newspapers, magazines, and books. I see the news on T.V. and hear it on the radio”
I apologize I was judging you from your posts; I didn’t know your credentials.
“Yes, the U.S. is supporting some dictatorships in the Middle East, but it is NOT supporting ALL OF THEM as you incorrectly asserted”
I never asserted that, my point was that not every dictatorship is your enemy and not every democracy is your friend.
“And people like Bill Maxwell and Michael j. Norton and El hombre Malo and lorshas and so many others advance all sorts of paralogistic arguments in a vain attempt to excuse this”
And
“Well he wouldn’t have to do that. Anti-semites flock to any tragedy to claim it as part of the Great Jew Conspiracy. They are attracted to disasters like flies to šhìŧ”
Don’t put me in the same category as the others; I should be called a self hating Semite.
And bill maybe you should read their posts again, I think you will realize you owe them an apology.
And Myers there is a difference between “excusing” and “explaining”, if you don’t…do a wiki.
“You know, just because Shlomo Ben-Ami agrees with you means nothing”
El hombre how dare you compare the former Israeli foreign minister with a man who has a college education.
Sorry Bill this is my last dig, I just couldn’t help it.
Regarding the responses to my posts many jump to pre conceived assumptions, my other posts just explain my same opinion in a different manner.
One is misunderstanding my “support of the right of the Palestinians to fight for their lands” into my “backing of Hamas” who I said are a problem. Myers even accused me of backing Al Qaeda.
To make my self clear , the only scenario I see for the region without Israel is if everybody is dead as well, an empty region.
From spiderrob8:
” Hard people understand nothing but hardness “
!!?
Posted by: lorshas at July 21, 2006 02:17 PM
And bill maybe you should read their posts again, I think you will realize you owe them an apology.
I have apologized for that remark in my prior post. I also extended an additional apology to El hombre Malo.
Posted by: lorshas at July 21, 2006 02:17 PM
Sorry Bill this is my last dig, I just couldn’t help it.
After my initial angry reaction, I realized that I am either as ignorant as you say I am, in which case the only logical response is to learn more in order to become less ignorant; or I am not as ignorant as you believe, in which case I needn’t give too much weight to your criticisms.
So, frankly, dig away to your heart’s content. I am an adult, and as such I should know better than to think that anyone’s “digs” diminish me as a person.
Myers even accused me of backing Al Qaeda.
To be fair, I accused certain elements in Saudi Arabia of backing Al Qaeda. I never accused you as an individual of backing Al Qaeda.
That said, I did let my anger at Saudi Arabia as a nation affect the way I interacted with you as an individual. As I said in my prior post, you are an individual who cannot bear the responsibility for everything that happens within your country. You are not my enemy and I should not have treated you as such.
And I have already acknowledged that my country has not always acted honorably towards your people. I do not believe either of our nations is innocent.
I am sorry for the confrontational nature of my interactions with you.
To make my self clear , the only scenario I see for the region without Israel is if everybody is dead as well, an empty region.
That would be a great loss for the world. I sincerely hope it never, ever comes to that.
Bill Mulligan, you couldn’t possibly be Jewish. Your blue skin and antennae give you away as an Andorian, my friend
Ðámņ! Nailed. Now I have to take the poison pill!
I might add that there is an embarrassing paucity of Irish/Jewish jokes out there. Best I could find:
There once was an proud Irishman named Pat, who went to heaven and saw St. Peter at the Pearly Gates. St. Peter asked, “Who are you?”
and Pat replied, “My name is Pat, I’m an Irishman, born on St. Patrick’s Day,died on St. Patrick’s Day, marching’ in the St. Patrick’s Day parade.”
St. Peter said to Pat: “Yes, this is true! Here’s a little green cloud for you to drive around heaven in and here is a harp that, when you push this button here, will play ‘When Irish Eyes Are Smiling.’ Enjoy it,Pat. Have a good time in heaven.”
Pat jumps on his little green cloud,punches the button, and heads out with a smile on his face and a song in his heart. He’s having a wonderful time in heaven, driving his little green cloud around. But on the third day, he’s driving down Expressway H-1 with the harp playing full blast when, all of a sudden, a Jewish man in a pink and white two-tone cloud with tail fins roars past him. And in the back of this cloud is an organ which is playing all sorts of celestial music. Pat makes a U-turn right in the middle of the Heaven Expressway and charges back to the Pearly Gates.
He says, “St. Peter, my name is Pat,I’m a proud Irishman. I was born on St. Patrick’s Day, died on St.Patrick’s Day, marching’ in the St. Patrick’s Day parade. I come up here to heaven and I get this tiny, insignificant little green cloud and this little harp that plays only one song, ‘When Irish Eyes Are Smiling.’But, there’s a Jew over there. He’s got a big, beautiful pink and white two-tone cloud and a huge organ that plays all kinds of celestial music and I, Pat the Irishman, want to know why!”
St. Peter stands up from his desk. He leans over and motions Pat the Irishman to come closer. Then he says:
“Pat, shush! He’s the Boss’s Son!”
Ok, not a GREAT joke, just the best I could find…if you want to include all priest and rabbi jokes I always liked this one:
A Catholic Priest and a Jewish Rabbi were chatting one day when the conversation turned to a discussion of job descriptions and the future. “What position do you see yourself in a couple years from now?” asked the Rabbi to the Priest. “Well, actually, I’m next in line for the Monsignor’s job,” replied the Priest. “Yes, and then what?” ask the Rabbi. “Well, I could become Arch-Bishop,” said the Priest. “Yes, and then?” asked the Rabbi. “Well, if I work real hard and do a good job as Arch-Bishop, it’s possible to become a full Bishop” said the Priest. “Okay, then what?” continued the Rabbi. The Priest, beginning to be a bit exasperated replied, “With some luck and real hard work, maybe I can become a Cardinal.” “And then?” continued the Rabbi. The Priest is really starting to get frustrated, but replies, “With lots and lots of luck and some real difficult work and if I’m in the right place at the right time and play my political games just right, maybe, just maybe, I can get elected Pope.” “Yes, and then what?” continued the Rabbi. “Good grief!” shouted the Priest, “What do you expect me to become, God?” “Well,” said the Rabbi, “One of our boys made it!”
Variations on a theme, I know…
I’m not Catholic, but I always thought Archbishop outranked Bishop, not the other way around.
Anyway, how about this one:
A priest and rabbi would often meet in the park during lunch and over time, became good friends. One day, the rabbi worked up enough courage to ask a favor of the priest.
“You know, I’ve always been curious about what really goes on in the confessionals. Do you think I could hear a few of them?” At first the priest resisted, but eventually, he agreed to sneak the rabbi into the confessional with him one day.
The first person came in and said, “Bless me father for I have sinned. It has been three weeks since my last confession. I committed adultery once.”
The priest replied, “Very well. Recite five Hail Maries, go and sin no more.”
The second person came in and said, “Bless me father for I have sinned. It has been three weeks since my last confession. I committed adultery twice.”
The priest replied, “Very well. Recite five Hail Maries, go and sin no more.”
After a few minutes, the priest had to go to the bathroom. While the rabbi waited alone, a third person came into the confessional and said, “Bless me father for I have sinned. It has been three weeks since my last confession. I committed adultery once.”
The rabbi thought for a moment and said, “Go out and do it again, they’re having a two-for-one special this week.”
Ba-da-boom.
Oooh, can I play, too?
An old joke tells of the Israeli prime minister’s visit to the White House.
On the president’s desk there are three phones. The president explains that the white phone is a direct line to the U.S. ambassador in Moscow. The red phone is a direct line to the commanding general of NATO. The blue phone is a direct line to God.
“But,” says the president, “we never use that phone because it’s too expensive.”
Then the president goes to visit the Israeli prime minister. On his desk there are three phones. The prime minister explains that the white phone is a direct line to the Israeli ambassador in Washington. The red phone is a direct line to the head of the Army. The blue phone is a direct line to God.
“But how can a small country like Israel afford such a phone?” the president asks. “Even the U.S. can’t afford to use it.”
“Mr. President,” says the prime minister, “here in Israel, it’s a local call.”
🙂
Lt’s just call the Bills by their last names
Myers I’m sorry if I ever offended you, typing doesn’t convey my tone , i was mostly joking not insulting.
I want to ask a question , what is so bad about the Apocalypse anyway , if you die in it or falling off the stairs its just one death , on the bright side everyone is dying with you and its going to be a spectacle .
Maqbool: As usual Peter David your pro Israeli rant is nauseous. I think you need to get it into your head that Israel is the bully in the Middle East with its high tech weaponry provided by the US. Look at the casualty figures yourself more Lebanese killed than Israelis.
Luigi Novi: Having technology or more casualties is not what a “bully” is. A bully is someone who picks on those smaller and weaker than them because they get a sadistic thrill out of it hurting those with whom they don’t empathize, which is hardly an accurate description of the motives behind Israel’s actions. Israel has to deal with suicide bombers blowing themselves and civilians up, and taking Iranian soldiers hostage. Israel must respond to this, and by contrast, it is trying to minimize civilian casualties. Bullies do not do this.
Bill Mulligan: Ghandi was a great man…He also had, as mentioned, the benefit of using non-violence on those who were receptive to it.
Luigi Novi: I guess the people he would’ve killed in the Boer War, the war against the Zulus, and World War I didn’t qualify, since he volunteered for all three of those wars. 🙂
(Note: despite volunteering, he didn’t actually serve in WWI.)
And then there were the Muslims. When the Nawab of Maler Kotla issued an order to shoot ten Muslims for every Hindu who was killed in the state, Gandhi gave it his blessing.
spiderrob: Spider-man doesn’t turn the other cheek with the Green Goblin. he beats on him and throws him into building, buildings which contain people as they crash down around them. I am not saying we should take those lessons. But that’s the lessons they teach. Supertheroes aren’t pacificsts. They are vigilantes.
Luigi Novi: Given the dictionary definition of vigilante, that’s true, but I’ve observed that it tends to be used in common parlance to mean those who act as judge, jury and executioner. Most superheroes, Spider-Man included, do not do this, and are no different than citizens making a citizens arrest, distinguished only by having the advantage of a superhuman ability.
I want to ask a question , what is so bad about the Apocalypse anyway , if you die in it or falling off the stairs its just one death , on the bright side everyone is dying with you and its going to be a spectacle .
Well it depends on the Apocalypse. the Book of Revelations has lots of unpleasent ways to die, what with scorpions and boils and all, while Ragnarock would just be one great big cool fight to the death with Frost Giants. I’m holding out for the Zombie Apocalypse but that’s just me.
An apocalypse that caused by some pipsqueak like Kim Jong just has zero coolness factor.
This thread feels so warm and cozy now with all the apologies flying around… 😉
Count me in for Zombieland or any MadMax scenario in which humanity gets to die slowly in small isolated groups.
Man, I am going to HAVE to remember those jokes for work tomorrow. But, embarrassing as it is for an actor to admit, I seem to have a terrible memory for jokes. Then again, the jokes I hear at work are always incredibly lame variations on the same horse-racing-sucks theme.
Lorshas, the problem with either dying in a fall down the steps or in the Apocalypse is sort of the dying part. Die nobly, die like a coward, die in a pink tutu and high heels while delivering flowers on a unicycle, it doesn’t matter. You’re still just as dead. Watchinbg everyone else on the planet dying around you just means it royally sucks for everybody else, too.
Israeli Soldiers use civilians as Human Shields in Beit Hanun
In the IDF’s Operation Summer Rains in the Gaza Strip following the abduction of Cpl. Gilad Shalit, engineer, artillery, and infantry forces made an incursion into Beit Hanun, a town of some 32,000 people in the northern Gaza Strip, early in the morning on 17 July. According to the IDF Spokesperson, during the incursion, “IDF struck approximately twenty armed terrorists.” The announcement added that, “Forces also carried out engineering work to harm terror organizations’ infrastructure and hamper their activity, and arrested a number of wanted men… During searches, forces discovered three Kalashnikov rifles, a carbine, a pistol, and ammunition.”
Around 6:00 A.M., troops in armored personnel carriers and bulldozers drove up to two adjacent four-story buildings in the middle of the town, near the a-Nasser mosque. The bulldozers destroyed the concrete wall around each building and then destroyed one of the external walls on the ground floor of each of the buildings. The extended Kafarneh family lives on the bottom three floors of one of the buildings. On the fourth floor are the offices of the Ramatan Palestinian News Agency. The ‘Ali family lives in the other building.
Part of the force, twelve soldiers in the estimate of one of the witnesses, burst into the Kafarneh building through the area where the wall was destroyed, firing stun grenades as they entered. At the time, there were 25 people in the building, including 11 children. Some of those present were from the ‘Ali family who left the adjacent building when the military entered Beit Hanun. The soldiers called all the residents to gather in the living room on the ground floor, and then searched them. Threatening the occupants with his weapon, one of the soldiers ordered ‘Aza Kafarneh, a 43-year old woman, to accompany him to search each of the floors in the building and to open the doors of each of the rooms. At the end of the search, the soldiers ordered all the occupants, except for three, to leave the building. As they left, there was a heavy exchange of gunfire between IDF soldiers and Palestinians. In her testimony to B’Tselem, ‘Aza Kafarneh related that, in light of the situation, she requested the soldier to let them remain in the building, but the soldiers refused. “We had to lay flat on the ground and crawl to the neighbor’s house…”
The three who were kept in the building were two of her sons, Hazem, 14, and Qusay, 16, and her nephew, Khaled, 23. The three were taken to the staircase, at the entrance to the third-floor apartment, where the soldiers were located. The three sat there until around 8:00 P.M, about 45 minutes before the soldiers left the building. During this time, soldiers inside and outside the building were engaged in exchanges of gunfire with armed Palestinians. The staircase was not in the direct line of gunfire. Just before the end of the incident, the soldiers ordered the three to go downstairs, in front of them, to the entrance of the building.
At the same time (around 6:00 AM), other members of the military force had seized control of the building in which the ‘Ali family lives. The only people in the building were the mother, ‘Ayesha, 60, and her three sons, Hazem, 29, Tareq, 25, and ‘Emad, 41. ‘Ayesha ‘Ali was taken into an interior room on the ground floor, where she stayed with her hands tied until the end of the events.
The soldiers ordered her three sons to undress and then searched them. The soldiers then cuffed their hands behind their back and blindfolded them. According to the testimony of Hazem, the soldiers tightened the cuffs intentionally so as to hurt them. One of the soldiers kicked him in the chest after he complained about the pain. However, when his hands began to swell and bleed from the cuffs, another soldier put a new pair of cuffs on his hands.
‘Emad, who serves in the Palestinian police force, handed over his personal weapon at the beginning of the events, in response to the soldiers’ demand. Another member of the family who also serves in a Palestinian police unit was not present at the time. Soldiers searched for his weapon, but they did not find it. During the search, the soldiers broke a lot of the family’s furniture and caused great destruction in some of the apartments.
Following the search, one of the soldiers took Hazem’s cell phone and called four persons whose numbers were in the phone’s memory. The soldier told each of them: “If you want Hazem, Tareq, and ‘Emad released, bring your weapons.” According to Hazem’s testimony, the four persons work with him at Ramatan and were selected at random; none of them have any weapons.
Around 8:00 A.M., the three men were taken to the staircase next to the third-floor apartment, where the soldiers were gathered. The three remained on the stairs, their hands cuffed behind their back and their eyes covered, until 8:45 P.M., when the soldiers left the building. At a certain point, one of the brothers, Tareq, moved a bit, and a soldier hit him in the chest and threatened to kill him. While they sat there, an intense exchange of gunfire took place between soldiers in the building and armed Palestinians outside. In contrast to the situation in the other building, many bullets entered the staircase area via the window and struck the wall, above the heads of the three occupants. One of the brothers, ‘Emad, was taken by the soldiers at the end of the incident and remains in Israeli detention.
In the early 90’s a band in Spain called DEFCON2 (a bit like Rage against the Machine) had a song named “Panico a una muerte Ridicula” that it would translate like “Panic of a ridiculous death”. Chorus would go (roughly translated)
Breaking your neck while changing a bulb
Suicide before checking lotto
To drown on a cruise liner pool
Electrocute yourself on the tub while f*cking
Panic
Panic of a ridiculous death
As shallow it may be, people care how they die. If only, because the family would wonder why your naked body is laying beside a hen (also on the song 😉 )
Undignified Ways to Die
(I believe this is by Paul Gilmartin)
Skin diving with gas tanks you stole from a dentist.
Renting a basement apartment in Venice.
Wearing clown shoes while walking through a mine field at night.
Getting a life-size tatoo of someone your height.
Mistaking a python for your favorite tie.
Hangliding at night on the 4th of July.
Having a bowling ball dropped on your head.
Mooning some cannibals who haven’t been fed.
Teasing some Scott’s for wearing their kilts.
Approaching a chopper while walking on stilts.
Swimming with sharks in a suit made of meat.
Flashing yourself to a hippo in heat.
Slapping the head of a bald drunken sailor.
Telling your date’s burly dad: “Five bucks says I nail her.”
Undignified Ways to Die
(I believe this is by Paul Gilmartin)
Skin diving with gas tanks you stole from a dentist.
Renting a basement apartment in Venice.
Wearing clown shoes while walking through a mine field at night.
Getting a life-size tatoo of someone your height.
Mistaking a python for your favorite tie.
Hangliding at night on the 4th of July.
Having a bowling ball dropped on your head.
Mooning some cannibals who haven’t been fed.
Teasing some Scott’s for wearing their kilts.
Approaching a chopper while walking on stilts.
Swimming with sharks in a suit made of meat.
Flashing yourself to a hippo in heat.
Slapping the head of a bald drunken sailor.
Telling your date’s burly dad: “Five bucks says I nail her.”
Sorry for the double post. No more jello bombs for me tonight.
U.S. Speeds Up Bomb Delivery for the Israelis
The Bush administration is rushing a delivery of precision-guided bombs to Israel, which requested the expedited shipment last week after beginning its air campaign against Hezbollah targets in Lebanon, American officials said Friday.
The decision to quickly ship the weapons to Israel was made with relatively little debate within the Bush administration, the officials said. Its disclosure threatens to anger Arab governments and others because of the appearance that the United States is actively aiding the Israeli bombing campaign in a way that could be compared to Iran’s efforts to arm and resupply Hezbollah.
The munitions that the United States is sending to Israel are part of a multimillion-dollar arms sale package approved last year that Israel is able to draw on as needed, the officials said. But Israel’s request for expedited delivery of the satellite and laser-guided bombs was described as unusual by some military officers, and as an indication that Israel still had a long list of targets in Lebanon to strike.
The new American arms shipment to Israel has not been announced publicly, and the officials who described the administration’s decision to rush the munitions to Israel would discuss it only after being promised anonymity. The officials included employees of two government agencies, and one described the shipment as just one example of a broad array of armaments that the United States has long provided Israel.
One American official said the shipment should not be compared to the kind of an “emergency resupply” of dwindling Israeli stockpiles that was provided during the 1973 Arab-Israeli war, when an American military airlift helped Israel recover from early Arab victories.
Sasha wrote: There’s a difference in taking two suspects into custody and crossing a border and attacking soldiers (killing several in the process).
Frankly I see little difference. The IDF has killed thousands of Palestinians over the years. Most of these are not “terrorists”. From a Palestinian POV, you could argue that Hamas have detained an Israeli terrorist.
I was originally talking about Hezbollah and the northern conflict but okay . . .
Goodly amounts of Israeli citizens have been killed by Hamas/Hezbollah as well. The difference you’re missing is that when the IDF attacks Hamas/Hellbollah, those two groups make a point of fighting amongst Palestinian citizenry, insuring that there will be civilian casualties. The IDF’s primary target is the militants/terrorists, not the general populace. When the militants/terrorists attack Israel, however, their primary targets are almost always civilians. There is no equivalence here.
Also, Israel currently holds over 9,000 Palestinians in detention of one sort or other (300+ are juveniles). Hamas holds 1 Israeli soldier. A slight imbalance I would suggest.
The sad part is that a good portion of them are terrorist and/or militants. I’d guess that a good percentage of them were among the militants that were released from jail by Arafat’s government during the most recent infahda.
True that the numbers are disproportionate, but I’m sure most every one of those Palastinians can be accounted for in the bureaucracy as can their status and health. No one can say with any surety whether or not the held soldiers are even alive or dead.
That being said, I believe Israel should step up efforts to release detainees that they know are no threat.
And now for my lame joke:
A priest, a reverend, and a rabbi went out fishing in a boat on a lake.
When they went out to the middle of the lake, the priest looked into his tacklebox and said “Darn! I left my bait in the car.” He then hopped out of the boat and proceeded to walk on the water all the way back to shore.
Immediately after, the reverend looked into his tacklebox and said “Shoot! I left my lures in the car as well.” He then also hopped out of the boat and proceeded to walk on the water all the way back to shore.
The amazed rabbi, noticing he had left his hooks in the car as well, shrugged and hopped out of the boat. He immediately sunk to the bottom of the lake.
The priest looked at the reverend and said “I thought you told him where the rocks were?”
Well, I don’t know about the rest of you, but I think we’re back down to two Bill’s again.
Now if I only I had my own joke to go with Myers and Mulligan’s.