Y’know…I almost wish the show weren’t called “Battlestar: Galactica.” It’s just that much more difficult to convince people that this is one of the best dramas, bar none, currently on the air.
In the interest of full disclosure, I will reiterate that I’ve written a BSG novel. I don’t believe it shades my opinions; in fact, if I didn’t like the series, I wouldn’t have written the novel, so that tells you something. Spoilers follow:
The season ender of the previous year blew Adama away; this one blew me away. And I even knew major aspects of the story in advance since I was sent episode descriptions to aid me in writing the book.
BSG doesn’t have a ton of humor in it, but this one contained the single funniest moment in the run of the series: Dean Stockwell being hauled to the brig, loudly protesting, “I am NOT a frakking Cylon” until he’s suddenly face-to-face with his exact duplicate, at which point he acknowledges the jig is up with a sighed, “Oh…well, okay, then.”
In an episode filled with so many great moments, it’s hard to pick just one…hëll, no. I lie. It’s easy. It’s the revelation that Roslin, in the interest of trying to save humanity, is behind an attempt to rig the election. That’s party of the genius of the series. The obvious way to go is to have Adama, the military man, be the hawk, while Roslin, the woman and teacher, would be more–what’s the word–nurturing. Instead she’s more of a hawk than Adama, and it’s Adama who has to rein in her more aggressive impulses. “If we do this…we’re criminals,” he tells her upon learning of her duplicity, and claims the cancer will have moved from her breast to her heart. Tragically, one cannot help but think that there’s a lot of politicians out there who have engaged in such power grabs for a lot less altruistic motives, and probably don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Then again, it IS science fiction.
The one year jump was a brilliant move (if we could jump three years in “New Frontier,” why not BSG?) although, honest, guys, Adama’s mustache? Unfortunate.
And geez…October. Gonna be a long summer.
PAD
• 
I finally broke down and watched it…
why the HÊLL couldn’t someone tell me those silver robots with those red flashy eyes were back from the 70’s….!??!?
I have a question:
Why did it take the cylons a frakkin year (after they saw the nuclear explosion signature) to get to New Caprica? I thought they had jump capabilities too?
They (the cylons) were a light year away when they saw the signature. They have faster than light travel so got thier pretty quickly. The nuclear signature however, does not have jump capability. At a light year away, it would have taken a year for it to be detectable that far out.
“What happened with Starbuck and Lee?
they pretty much showed that when Starbuck got back to the Galactica and was drinking with her sport studd. Lee was the third part of the triangle and Kara made her choice and it wasn’t Lee.”
I would have to disagree. I think something far more serious happened between them than the incident we saw right after Starbuck and Anders returned to Galactica. Yes, Starbuck was rude, and she was drunk, but I can’t see Lee writing off their entire friendship because of it, not when he was involved with Dualla at the same time. Something far worse happened. Something so devastating to their relationship that even Tigh knows about it.
BTW, isn’t it just “Battlestar Galactica” now, with no colon after Battlestar?
I found the finale to be jarring. Jarring in a way totally alike, and totally unalike, the first season finale. Everything changed. Change is dangerous, and I can’t fault the producers for taking the show in this direction. As enjoyable as it is, you can only get so much out of “fleet in space looking for Earth” before you have to get to Earth. Which, as anyone that’s seen the original can tell you, pretty much ends the show.
So, it’s a logical place to go, and it makes sense to skip over the whole establishing of the colony process. They summed up the important events in just a few scenes, with every fear Rosalin and Bill had coming true, and a few more to boot. Baltar’s fall…if you can call reverting to his natural state a fall…caught me a little by surprise.
Like DCs OYL jump, it sets up a whole bunch of interesting reveals in the coming season. If I didn’t have Dr. Who to get me through, Oct. would be so far away.
“They (the cylons) were a light year away when they saw the signature. They have faster than light travel so got thier pretty quickly. The nuclear signature however, does not have jump capability. At a light year away, it would have taken a year for it to be detectable that far out.”
Ah. It was my undertanding that they found the signature right away, simply because I assumed that the Pegasus Six cylon copy had been programmed to blow the nuclear bomb …
Ah. It was my understanding that they found the signature right away, simply because I assumed that the Pegasus Six cylon copy had been programmed to blow the nuclear bomb…
Hmm. I don’t know if we can assume her detonating the the explosive was planned. We’ve seen that the human type Cylons can think and act independently of their programming.
“Hmm. I don’t know if we can assume her detonating the the explosive was planned. We’ve seen that the human type Cylons can think and act independently of their programming.”
And we’ve seen that the Six andd Eight models are capable of things outside the box. Gina was traumatized, and then traumatized. She split from whatever programming she had. And as they cylons sort of said, in making themselves human, they made themselves too human. The Chief’s Sharon didn’t even know what she was. Her sleeper programming was faulty. Even after she Downloaded, she still resisted the idea that she was a Cylon. And another 8 had a child.
Really, all the depths that this storylines alone make the show worth watching. They didn’t need to add a ton of cliffhangers and reveals to get me to come back.
Hmmm is right!
Well now I wonder what her motive was?
Oh those sneaky Cylons. I don’t necessarily think they act independantly, they’re just sleepers. Deh I’m cynical that way. I’m always questioning their motives, even the supposed “altruistic” ones like the messianic Baltar’s Six and Sharon Who Shot Adama. I still think their recent actions are some how part of the “grand design”.
Obviously Pegasus Six was not a sleeper because she knew what she was gonna do before she slept with Baltar.
So I’m back to why did she do it if she wasn’t told too?
Ah Gina! I forgot her name!
Faulty sleeper programming? Ok, yes I get that. I suppose they could be thinking outside the box types.
But I still don’t trust anything the Cylon’s say, especially Baltar’s Six …
I don’t think Baltar sold out humanity a third time for a piece of ášš. After the fleet jumped, he didn’t really have a choice on whether to surrender or not.
My first thought about the 1 year later was that it was Starbuck’s dream. She mentioned not wanting to wake up in another farm while on Caprica. The the Cylons simply left. I thought that’s where the dream started. Still, Starbuck wouldn’t know about Baltar seeing Six since she’s all in his mind.
“So I’m back to why did she do it if she wasn’t told too?”
She was suicidal. After months of torture and rape that drove her to catatonia she was no longer truly sane, even by Cylon standards. Remember when she was a captive on Peagasus, how she not only begged Baltar to kill her, she also told him how to destroy the resurrection ship? She wants *lot* of people to die along with her.
The lesson of the story is: don’t give nuclear bombs to your enemy, especially if people from your side have spent a few months torturing and raping her.
The world you’re describing, Peter, is one I would never want to live in. It smacks of some alarming form of artistic fascism. I’ve heard the “objective greatness” argument before, and it has never sounded like anything other than an unfortunate mix of insecurity and arrogance — insecurity over the possibility that if enough people disagree with you, maybe it means that your own opinion isn’t valid; and arrogance in assuming that what you believe to be great is an inarguable fact that is true for everyone. But we all have ways of dealing with people whose opinions and beliefs we have trouble tolerating — that’s just yours.
So am I to understand that Battlestar Galactica is an objectively great show? That your opinion is the correct one and those of its detractors are incorrect? I don’t understand. How do we determine who is correct and who is incorrect? Is there some sort of test? Or is there a governing body that determines these things? If so, then it really would be artistic fascism.
Art is not meant to be objectified and quantified. Doing so defeats the whole purpose. Art is a deeply personal, subjective force that either speaks to your or it doesn’t. No two people see the same work of art in the same way. Even two people who love the same work love it in different ways, for different reasons.
Incidentally, The Twilight Zone has some brilliant episodes, and some episodes that are appallingly awful, so I wouldn’t even call it a subjectively great show. And why is the Mona Lisa invariably brought up as the paradigm of artistic greatness? It’s not famous for being great, it’s famous for being famous. I like Annie Hall, but I have no problem with someone thinking it’s unfunny (humor is even more subjective than art) or shapeless, and I have to agree that Frankenstein is worthless as horror (though it’s still a good movie). If you’d just breathe and relax a little and learn to be less bigoted, you’d have no problem with these opinions, either.
“Remember when she was a captive on Peagasus, how she not only begged Baltar to kill her, she also told him how to destroy the resurrection ship? She wants *lot* of people to die along with her.”
All right, I can buy that as a possible reason why. Although I’m not completly sold on the idea. Still, it would explain why the cylons didn’t know about the explosion until they got the signature and would tie up the ending nice and neat. Seems like an easy out if you ask me.
“BSG doesn’t have a ton of humor in it, but this one contained the single funniest moment in the run of the series: Dean Stockwell being hauled to the brig, loudly protesting, “I am NOT a frakking Cylon” until he’s suddenly face-to-face with his exact duplicate, at which point he acknowledges the jig is up with a sighed, “Oh…well, okay, then.”
The most recent two episodes are the only one’s I’ve seen of the new _Galactica_ series since a friend loaned me the tape of the miniseries back in 2003; so I didn’t know if every Cylon was aware of its Cylonness. Thus, my initial thought when Brother What’shisname was being hauled to the brig, was that he didn’t _know_ he was a Cylon. I took his “oh…well, okay then” comment as an indication that he took things as they came. Kinda like Oz’s “huh.” in the _Buffy_ episode “Phases”, where he learns he’s a werewolf.
Of course, a few minutes later, it became clear that he did know, and had been trying to bluff.
I liked the episodes I saw, but don’t have cable anymore (I got it to see season 5 of _Babylon 5_ back in 1998, canceled it a year later; and don’t anticipate getting it again anytime soon); so I don’t know that I’ll see much more of _Galactica_. At least on TV. Perhaps one day, I’ll decide to buy the DVDs.
Rick
P.S. Speaking of Cylons, what alien robot decided to put that “Top Model” show on UPN last night at 7 when I was looking forward to seeing _Veronica Mars_?
Sheesh.
Speaking of Cylons, what alien robot decided to put that “Top Model” show on UPN last night at 7 when I was looking forward to seeing _Veronica Mars_?
Probably a Six – they’re like that…
If you’d just breathe and relax a little and learn to be less bigoted, you’d have no problem with these opinions, either.”
BIGOTED?!
Screw you, áššhølë. Seriously. Opinionated? Yes. You’re calling me a bigot? Sod off. As it occurred to you that the fact that I ALLOW PEOPLE TO POST HERE IS THE OPPOSITE OF INTOLERANCE?
God. Talk about arrogant.
PAD
“So I’m back to why did she do it if she wasn’t told too?”
I think you’re all overthinking it. I don’t think it had anything to do with depression or anything like that. There’s two very simple, very obvious reasons why she did what she did.
First of all, she couldn’t go down to the surface because she wouldn’t be able to stay in hiding as she had been. She’d be recognized as a Cylon–the one who killed Admiral Cain, for that matter–and she’d have the life expectency of a Spinal Tap drummer.
Second, she detonated the bomb specifically BECAUSE she was hoping that it would catch the attention of the Cylons and bring them to the planet. It was the nuclear equivalent of a message in a bottle.
PAD
The Dean Stockwell model cylon likes to live dangerously, if he did know that he was a cylon, based on his joke to the Chief about not seeing him at any of the cylon meetings. I thought he didn’t know and his “oh. well okay, then.” comment (which was hilarious) was kinda like his sleeper programming going away and his realization that he was a cylon.
Also, I’m seriously hoping everyone who has said October is wrong (but I’m getting nervous since I haven’t seen any non-October comments). I thought all of the Sci-Fi Friday shows (SG-1, SG:Atlantis, and BSG) were all coming back with new seasons in July! That’s how they did it last year, isn’t it?
Bill
Sci-Fi announced the return date as October, and they begin filming new episodes in April.
Kath speculates they needed the additional time to allow Olmos to grow a real mustache rather than that cheesy make-up appliance.
PAD
Actually, PAD, I think you might be overthinking things a bit yourself.
Her life expectancy on the planet would have been low, so she killed herself. Huh? She knew that she would get killed, so she killed herself? No, that doesn’t work. Revenge after months of torture is much more straightforward.
I do buy the idea that she saw it as an opportunity to send a message.
Another possibility is that she just didn’t get Dean Stockwell’s message. The first or second episode of the regular series had a suicide bomber.
Personally, I imagine it as being a combination of factors. The human model cylons are pretty human-like, and human reasoning is usually a muddle of lots of different motivations. But that’s just how I imagine it. In actual fact, the real motivation isn’t important. From a writing standpoint, I admire how they set up the character so that different people are projecting different motivations onto her actions.
Thanks, PAD (and also, Frak, I gotta wait 7 months instead of 4!). I guess I coulda checked the Sci-Fi website instead of posting here first, but I think I was in denial. Oh well.
Also, on the subject of the facial hair, obviously, it fits Olmos’ history better, but wouldn’t it have been better for Lee Adama to have been sporting some facial hair. I mean, he’s gotta be fairly young to be a Battlestar commander. Wouldn’t he jump on anything that reduced the impression of ‘too young to be a commander unless your pappy’s the admiral’?
Bill
I dunno. I think Lee has such a youthful face that a mustache would just look funny.
PAD
Aint it cool has a link to a website with a Ron Moore interview. Evidently we can expect at least 5 episodes set on New Caprica. But they will get back into space to search for earth.
The possiblities of such plot lines have me salivating. You can assume everyone planet side quite the military, so when they head back out into space, will Heilo still be XO. How about Dee? The chief I can see getting his old job back, evidently there weren’t many repair people left aboard ship, but Ty? Will he happily play second fiddle to Heilo? I’m sure there will be new KAGs, will Kara torture the new guy when she is forced to resume being a pilot? Will Laura blow Gaius out an airlock for surrendering? Who will live to get off the planet? And what will they do once they get back out there now that they’ve lost their main agricultural and pleasure ship?
We just have to wait 7 fracking months! Argh!
First I think the Six that blew up the nuke was VERY unstable.She was probably suicidal and after her being tortured and raped probably wanted as many humans dead as possible .So the nuk does damage and brings her cylon buddies back.
Dean Stockwell …..hope he shows up again,always a fan of Al from Quantum Leap and love a smartass
Cylon.
I do think the situation between Lee and Kara is deeper than just rejection.At least I would think so.
Gaius ….yeah third time a piece of ášš has gotten him in trouble,the initial attack,and the double whammy nuke blowing cloud nine ,signaling the Cylons.I hope it was worth it.
My earlier comment about are there more models of Cylon beyond the 12 initial ones ….I mean they have had time away and who knows what they have been up to .
I recently got my brother hooked on the show so the October premiere gives him a chance to play catch up.
Also is it me or does Kara’s new man kind of resemble Christian Bale??
I think what is being overlooked with Gina is that here we have Baltar, who was the one person able to give her hope and bring her back from the brink of wanting to die, telling her that he was going to be leaving again. Giving herself to him after having been through the rape and torture on the Pegasus, and then realizing that that wasn’t enough and that Baltar would still be leaving her pushed her to the point of ending her life and hurting him who hurt her more than any of the colonials on Pegasus in the process.
“Dean Stockwell …..hope he shows up again,always a fan of Al from Quantum Leap and love a smartass Cylon.”
At this point, I’d be willing to bet that anyone they show as a Cylon has agreed to come back for more episodes.
That recent episode on Cylon controlled Caprica had everyone who’s ever been a Cylon, I think. Even with that, the crowd scenes still gave me a little chuckle, because they just happened to only have the 6 models we’ve already seen. But I accepted that as necessary to maintain future surprises. It certainly worked better than it would have at the beginning of the first season, when there were only 4 models.
I think this is also a good point to mention how pleasantly surprised I was by Lucy Lawless. I’ve had a lot of trouble seeing her as anything other than Xena in the last few years. With her having the blond hair and her natural New Zealand accent, it’s been much easier to accept her as this character. She’s definitely made a good character.
Here’s what I think:
Gina blew up the nuke for revenge pure and simple. she had sex with Baltar as a thank you for all the kindnesses he gave her but I never got the idea that she wanted a relationship with Baltar. Gina found out that the Cylons were not coming back to wipe out humanity so she set off the nuke as her last gasp.
There won’t be more than 12 human Cylon models, although there might be one more that’s signifigantly different from the other 12 in someway. The number has religious signifigance (12 tribes of Israel, 12 apostles, etc.), and BSG is big on religious themes. You can find more info on numerology here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerology#Twelve
I apologize. It was a poor choice of word, and it wasn’t my intention to insult or offend you.
Ok, so Gina wasn’t programmed to blow the nuke, she did it for her own reasons, whether for suicide or to alert the other cylons. Well thank goodness the cylons didn’t see the signature for a lightyear because it gave baltar just enought time to scrwe up the planet and lull Adama into assurance that the cylons are indeed not coming back, allowing his ships to go to pot.
How convenient for the cylons.
There’s something about this plot part that is significant and I can’t put my finger on it yet. I can’t believe that the writers of that show would make it that easy for the cylons.
And I don’t believe that Adama would just sit back and watch his Galactica grow rusty, knowing what Baltar had done in the past.
We didn’t get the full scoop folks, but alas, we have to wait till October to see the rest.
(Oh and rumor has it we have to wait till October because they want to synchronize the delivery of BSG with the rest of the world for marketing purposes. Too many people were downloading the eppys which we saw before the rest of the population, instead of waiting to watch them when aired on the telly.)
So Baltar turns out to be an arrogant, imperialist President who shuts down debate by saying “there have been no Cylon attacks in a year!” Meanwhile, he does nothing to keep the people safe and in fact is responsible for weakening their security.
It may just be me, but I find a parallel there.
“So Baltar turns out to be an arrogant, imperialist President who shuts down debate by saying “there have been no Cylon attacks in a year!” Meanwhile, he does nothing to keep the people safe and in fact is responsible for weakening their security.
It may just be me, but I find a parallel there.”
So who is the imaginary conscious of Bush whispering in his ear?
>And I don’t believe that Adama would just sit back and watch his Galactica grow rusty, knowing what Baltar had done in the past.
I don’t think he had a lot of choice. A Battlestar needs people and resources, and he was running out of both. If he challenged Baltar, he could suddenly be facing an investigation of what happened during the election, and Baltar could promote somebody else to admiral. Besides, a year later, even Adama didn’t believe the cylons were coming back. And, in fact, clearly something DID happen to the cylons, since when they returned it was NOT to wipe the humans out.
“So who is the imaginary conscious of Bush whispering in his ear?”
I guess that would be Karl Rove.
I really mean that Baltar talks about doing whatever it takes to protect humanity and only doing what is best for them, while in reality he is selling them out.
Just sounds familiar to me.
“ya see, I’m a War President. And I a gotta protect the the people”
Oh, if only Karl Rove were imaginary.
I was kind of surprised that Adama was willing to believe that the cylons weren’t coming back so soon. Or that Kara would leave the fleet service so soon. I’m hoping that a lot of these questions will be addressed soon in the next season.
One thing that did strike me: a year on New Caprica and everyone was still living in a tent city. Not a single permanent structure had been built? You’d think with 39,000 motivated people, they’d get some construction projects off the ground by now. It looks like Baltar squandered an entire year squabbling with the union instead of getting some work done. Or is the planet that poor in resources that it’s taken them this long to even get started.
Please dont ruin this show for me with political parrallels. I watch tv shows to escape it AND the writer/producer insists he is not intentionally putting his political beliefs in the show, I’d like to keep pretending this is true thank you very much. 🙂
Zeek…I agree that shows like BSG can help us forget our troubles for a while…but far too many people try to bury themselves in escapist activities rather than face the issues at hand…BSG is great…but its just a show on your TV…look out the window…thats the real world out there and it needs some of our attention as well…
Thanks.
Bush has already said several times that God has spoken to him.
Baltar’s head Gina is always trying to show him the Cylon god’s plan.
Pretty easy correlation there.
Oh I’m not living in the real world because I like Sci Fi and don’t want to hear about politics for just one FREAKIN second?
::sigh::
Yeah ok then.
Try to find some joy in life guys. It’ll make you much more pleasant people to be around.
I’m done here.
“I apologize. It was a poor choice of word, and it wasn’t my intention to insult or offend you.”
Yeah, well…I could’ve been more tactful in my reaction. So…bygones.
“Please dont ruin this show for me with political parrallels. I watch tv shows to escape it AND the writer/producer insists he is not intentionally putting his political beliefs in the show, I’d like to keep pretending this is true thank you very much.”
I fully believe that the producer isn’t putting his beliefs in per se, but the real world parallels are unmistakeable. I mean, Roslin’s life was saved basically because of stem cell research. The assassination of Boomer, the would-be killer of Adama, was almost a shot-for-shot recreation of the shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald, JFK’s assassin, by Jack Ruby. So if people are drawing parallels to Baltar and Bush, that’s not entirely out of line.
It’s not like this is anything new. Babylon 5 riffed Chamberlain’s notorious declaration that meetings with Hitler had resulted in “peace in our time.” “ST:TOS” had episodes commenting on Vietnam and Nazism. One of the strengths of SF is its ability to take real world situations or issues and comment on them in SF terms. So I don’t reall see how you can be upset that people here on commenting on such perceived parallels in BSG when it’s such a traditional part of SF, both written and televised.
PAD
I wasn’t upset .. at first.
I see the hints at parallels too and realize it is a big part of sci fi.
I also realize that political beliefs are important and a big part of what this site is about, simply because it’s a part of you.
I just get frustrated always having to wade through political opinions to simply talk about the things I enjoy. Not all people are sci fi buffs and I have a difficult time finding people to talk with who watch BSG or read Star Trek New Frontier. I enjoyed having a place where people talk about like pleasures. Just got weary of people trying to draw conclusions for me.
So I apologize for yelling earlier. I’ll just take my marbles and go home to cool off for awhile.
“So I apologize for yelling earlier. I’ll just take my marbles and go home to cool off for awhile.”
Well, you do what you want, of course, but I think if you go back and give this thread a fair reading, you’ll see that reference to specific politics has been pretty minimal. In fact, there’s as many posts comparing Baltar to Doctor Bashir as Bush.
PAD
If the Cylons were close enough to detect the nuke, perhaps this isn’t the last we’ve seen of the “Gina” 8 model?
Also, it was Baltar’s 8 and the original Boomer that found New Caprica.
Given that they were leaders of a movement, a schism in the monolithic Cylon society, it may be that Galactica’s survivors have been found by a splinter group of Cylons who have broken off from main Cylon society.
Consequently this splinter group may have a very different outlook on their interaction with human society. They may in fact be on the run from the main Cylon host themselves. This would explain their paternal attitude towards the newfound survivors even though Stockwell’s character gave every indication the Cylon’s had decided to totally remove themselves from the affairs and business of humanity.
“If the Cylons were close enough to detect the nuke, perhaps this isn’t the last we’ve seen of the “Gina” 8 model?”
I’m thinking it is. Remember, the humans blew up the resurrection ship. If the Cylons were so far away that she had to detonate a nuclear bomb to get their attention–and even then it took them a year to notice it–I think it’s pretty safe to think that Gina knew she was ending herself permanently. Which adds a certain poignancy to it, when you think about it.
PAD
For her sake, I hope the basestars were too far away to resurrect GinaSix. Death was, after all, her most fervent wish.
Poor broken cyborg…
I think a light year is too far for her mind to “beam” itself into a new body.
Even so, I didn’t see a new resurrection ship among the basestars, maybe the new Sharon/Caprica Six alliance has embraced their mortality when they rejected the cylon god.
“Also, it was Baltar’s 8 and the original Boomer that found New Caprica.”
Gina is a Six. Sharon/Boomer is the Eight.
Personally, they both strike me as tens!