When the early photos from the revival of “Doctor Who” were released, fan pronouncements were dire. Most of it centered around his clothing, which didn’t look vaguely Victorian or quaint. And British fans, according to SFX magazine, dismissed Billie Piper as “a has-been teen popstrel.”
Well, we just got done watching all 13 episodes of the first season, and boy, did it kick ášš. (Yes, we got unauthorized DVDs. We do that on occasion when it’s something we reeeeally want to see. However, if it shows up in authorized version, we always buy it so the producers get our money.)
What is it about fans, anyway, that there’s always so much nay-saying and prejudging? In TV shows, in comics. This incredible urge to greet any word of change or trying something different with a resounding, “It’s gonna suck.” You’d think that they’d eventually learn to way and see the final product, but no. No, every time something different is done it’s “They’re changing it, it’s going to be terrible.”
Sheesh.
PAD
• 
Um, Tim….as far as GALACTICA is concerned…I’d recomend watching it during leisure time. I find it takes a fair amount of focus to follow stuff and think it through. Doing it for the first season was rewarding for me; I simply haven’t had the time to do it for the second season (even though Michelle Forbes is playing a series icon).
“What is it about fans, anyway, that there’s always so much nay-saying and prejudging?”
What is it about creators, anyway, that there’s always so much lumping the bad, histrionic fans, with the quiet, reserved, or optomistic ones?
i bought the british dvd set. i just play them on my pc, with my tv and monitor being the same 26 inch sharp lcd, it works great, and its legal.
i liked the episodes i watched off the internet enough that i preordered it back during the summer.
For cryin’ out loud, Doctor Who is all about change. The only consistant things in the series are the TARDIS in the shape of a police call box (and even then, an episode or two allowed for the chameleon circuit to change its shape), and that the Doctor will always battle for truth and justice. Other than that… our hero changes. Beloved characters come and go, some even perish. Just as you think things have reached a status quo… something occurs in the Doctor’s universe that totally rocks the foundation.
Doctor Who is the one TV series in prime time where not only do fans not fear the change of its leading man, it’s a moment to be celebrated!
By the way, we just saw The Christmas Invasion, along with the BBC Children in Need prologue. As much as we’re going to miss Chris Eccleston, David Tennant is going to sooth it all over!
if anyone was wondering, i use dvdidle to un region code my dvd drive. i highly recommend it.
Going back to the old/new issue — whether fans want change or the same — they’re disappointed with both. If the work never changes, fans lose interest because it’s too repetitive: Batman tracks down and beats up the Joker, the Hulk overcomes opponents by getting mad and becoming much stronger, etc. But when the work changes, fans get upset: Why isn’t Batman tracking down the Joker? What is the Hulk doing making plans? It’s impossible to come close to pleasing everyone.
The question with change, for me, is: Is it done well? When PAD made the Hulk far more intelligent than the “Hulk smash!” character, he managed to improve the book tremendously. When Captain America was replaced by a bloodthirsty psychopath (was that book still covered under the comics code then?), it was awful. My favorite change/non-change was when Grant Morrison managed to rewrite the entire Doom Patrol history without changing the facts (by making the Chief behind all they’d been through). Did Superman need to be turned into an energy being — then two? (And did any fan really believe that would be the new version through the year 2000?)
I want to see the new BATTLESTAR GALACTICA because, based on what I heard from friends and critics, it’s an extremely intelligent show with compelling characters (two qualities missing from Star Trek for a while). I want to see the new DOCTOR WHO because I’ve liked the show before. I did not see the remake of THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE because I didn’t think a classic could be improved by modernizing it.
I don’t know why the outcry against Body Armor Batman – I always thought it was kind of a callback to Frank Miller’s Dark Knight Returns. “…why do you think I wear a target on my chest – can’t armor my head…”
PAD:
“Believe me, it was more than “some fan outcry.”
Oh, I have no doubt about that. I wasn’t trying to minimize the noise made at the time. It’s just that body armor always made sense to me because there was no super power for Batman to fall back on.
If it were me out there fighting creeps and thugs and muggers, not to mention criminal gangs and super powered villain types, I think I could safely say spandex and comfy jammy pants would take a back seat to the body armor option.
Isn’t that a part of what bringing some of these heroes out of the cartoon/comics and into live-action about? You know, adding a (sort of) real world element?
It’s the same as the leather clad X-men. If it’s going to be more real worldy then yes put them in leather armor for some protection.
For Superman it’s not such a big deal because the dude is bullet proof to begin with so body armor is not as necessary (I’m digging what I’ve seen of the new costume, so far). Well… that only holds if he’s not in Smallville where all things are “meteor rock.”
For Spider-Man it’s a similar circumstance. Spider sense = dodge bullet/punch/kick. Here someone might get in a tizzy over organic web shooters. Hey, I admit I had my doubts but they also managed to get Parker/Spider-Man’s personality down pretty well so it was no big deal because that’s way more important that our hero’s outerwear. For the record, I was thrilled that Spidey was a smart-ášš once he got into costume.
Now let’s be honest. We’ve all seen how “those Hollywood types” can bášŧárdìzë things. For example, I always expected that TV’s The Incredible Hulk/David Banner would be off looking for the one armed man that killed his wife because that show was more The Fugitive than The Hulk. I realize that it was done in that manner because of the limitations in funding and visual FX of the time, not to mention the thought process of studio execs. But that all added up to the show having an uncentered feeling about it. I am gratified however that the Hulk still had a soft spot.
Ok, I seem to have wondered off course.
Yes, some fans overreact and they are the ones that will get attention because they are making all the noise. Which answers Jon’s question posted above:
“What is it about creators, anyway, that there’s always so much lumping the bad, histrionic fans, with the quiet, reserved, or optomistic ones?”
I suspect that fan’s who can get over their initial misgivings don’t feel the need to turn a question around in that manner to try to make a point.
Salutations,
Mitch
“What is it about fans, anyway, that there’s always so much nay-saying and prejudging?”
– Because it’s kewl.
– It makes them sound like an expert.
– By saying it’s bad beforehand, they can make it personal. It’s like saying “they are doing it this way just to piss ME off”.
– If it is bad, they can say they were right.
– If it’s good, they can say that it’s not as good as everyone else thinks.
I think a lot of the negative reaction about Dr Who stemmed from the casting of Billie Piper, but you’d have to live in the UK to comprehend what an awful idea that sounds like on paper.
Oh, we can comprehend it. Imagine if they announced tomorrow that there would be a new Trek series with Brittany Spears as a lead…
Why isn’t this show being broadcast on BBC America?
The BBC is trying to sell the show to an American network or cable channel so they can make some money. So far, they’ve failed.
As for the FOX telemovie, it was crap. McGann was great, but the story was crap. The whole thing was “Americanized”. Maybe that doesn’t mean anything to most Americans, but I grew up watching Who show on PBS – the fact that it was British was part of the appeal.
It’s why I’m loving the new Who so much.
I have the same sort of issues with the recent HHGttG movie – while it had Brits involved, it was more Hollywood than what made Adams’ material so enjoyable.
I’d probably get the same reaction if a new Trek series was done entirely in Britain.
If that makes me some piss-poor fan who can’t handle change, well, that’s too bad for the rest of you.
Peter, you KNOW the reason for the pre-negativity. Yeah, sure wanna be kewl, appear the know-it-all, but I suspect there’s another deeper reason:
FEAR–of disappointment, yet again.
Better to expect the worst and at least having the satisfaction of being right–than expecting the best and tasting the bitterness of disappointment,
Then some are hypocritical pessimist, who publically predict the worst while privately hoping for the best.
The heart and mind are sensitive organs, Peter, and people devise varied and interesting ways to protect same.
— Ken from Chicago
P.S. Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Great Pumpkin, Great Bird of the Galaxy, etc., is any wonder why some people grow up disillusioned?
Oh, we can comprehend it. Imagine if they announced tomorrow that there would be a new Trek series with Brittany Spears as a lead…
I dunno, could it possibly have sucked more than Voyager or Enterprise?
Oh, we can comprehend it. Imagine if they announced tomorrow that there would be a new Trek series with Brittany Spears as a lead…
We’ve already seen it: Whoopie Goldberg on Next Generation. I cringed when I heard it, but after seeing her, I knew I was wrong. She was perfect.
I’ll tell you where I got my, er, “unofficial” DVDs. I made ’em. And they look great. And as a result, I’ve given gifts of “New Who” to a number of friends, and started building fandom for the series when it’s not even available here.
Come February, I’ll buy the Official DVDs, and encourage all who received the gifts to do the same.
I _wasn’t_ wild about Eccleston’s costume, though, and I really don’t much like the new TARDIS interior.
But a series isn’t about sets and costmes. It’s about stories and characters and — if you’re very, very lucky — some sort of actual thematic content.
New “Who” scored there in spades.
I assume Mr. David was asking a rhetorical question. For someone who’s been in the biz as long as he has, it should have been the first lesson. Fans are naysayers because genre fans, for the most part, are conservative. Politically and sociologically. (Why all the attacks on Mr. D’s political stances? He should post banner ads for Faux News, since that’s the informative source of most fans.)
And as such, they are stuck in a conundrum. They want their new Trek, Who, Angel, whatever, to be “the same” as the old one. In other words, to give them the same thrill as when they discovered the original. But to get that thrill, something has to be new, and that offends their fear of the unexpected. Thus, every succeeding Trek series that was introduced brought a queasy mix of expectation and loathing as the predominant fan reaction.
If you detect any bitterness in the above, well, I just get irritated at those people who claim to be advancing onto the future…but who keep looking backward.
Speaking as a longtime fan of Angel, I’d be thrilled if Whedon were to make a new series about the adventures of Puppet Angel.
[b]I don’t know why the outcry against Body Armor Batman – I always thought it was kind of a callback to Frank Miller’s Dark Knight Returns. “…why do you think I wear a target on my chest – can’t armor my head…”[/b]
My beef is the Whole semi-rigid armored battlesuit he’s worn in the films is more unrealistic than what he sports in the comics. Most conventional body armor is cloth like in nature, And is more or less folded to add strength. Batman is an agile, stealthy character who wouldn’t wear a cumbersome suit ever venture into Gothams streets.
The character of Batman is cooler being a guy who can dodge bullets from thugs because he’s so sneaky and fast than just standing there laughing off gunshots. The frustrating thing is for all the talk about the armor in BB, when did he ever get shot?
I watched the new _Doctor Who_ series on CBC (likewise the Christmas Invasion), and liked it. Just as I liked the original series, which I watched on PBS in college. One thing I’ve _always_ liked about the series is the occasional changes. Those changes kept it fresh.
About the same time I started watching the series, I bought the book _Doctor Who A Celebration_ by Peter Haining, and read about the show’s history, interviews with the (then-five) actors who’d played the Doctor, and an episode guide. All of which whetted my appetite to actually _see_ some of the episodes described. Especially those involving regeneration.
The decision to allow the Doctor to regenerate, thus letting a new actor step into the role was brilliant, albeit risky. Even Patrick Troughton, the second Doctor, felt it would be a disaster. Fortunately, he was proven wrong. Each time I “met” a new Doctor, I looked forward to seeing what new direction the show would take. The same was also true, to a lesser extent, when there was a change of companions.
I don’t have a “favorite” Doctor. I like them all (though each has his particular strengths and weaknesses). One thing I find particularly appealing about the character of the Doctor is the realization that every actor taking on the part is playing the same character, albeit with a slightly different personality. It’s amusing to think that the tetchy William Hartnell Doctor is the same character as the Tom Baker Doctor, who casually walks up to two Kaleds in the episode “Genesis of the Daleks”, and says, “can you help me? I’m a spy.” (or words to that effect). Likewise, I love the juxtaposition in “The Five Doctors” when the first and fifth Doctors are together in the TARDIS. Peter Davison, the younger actor, is playing the _older_ version of the character.
I also like when one Doctor does something that echoes one of his predecessors, just to subtly indicate that despite outward changes, it’s still the same person. On occasion, Peter Davison would flip a coin when he came to an intersection while exploring (and would usually frown, turn the coin over, nod in satisfaction, and head down one of the branching tunnels). His successor, Colin Baker, performed the coin flip in one of his episodes (I forget which). I have no idea if it was scripted or an ad lib, but it was a nice touch.
And, of course, you’ve got to love the TARDIS. With it, the Doctor can have adventures _anywhere_ in any time period. Most of which, by some strange coincidence, resemble quarries.
Are there things I don’t like about the series (both new and old)? Sure. Ever since John Nathan Turner became producer beginning with season 18 of the original series, the Doctor- and to a lesser degree his companions- always wore the same outfit. Not the same _style_ of clothing, but the same outfit (excepting Sylvester McCoy’s jacket change). As if it were a uniform. Unless we establish that he’s a member of the Albert Einstein/Seth Brundle school of fashion, I’d prefer to see the Doctor wear different clothing from time to time.
But that’s a minor point; and if the 10th Doctor spends his entire existence wearing the same suit, it won’t stop me from enjoying the show. Or, if I don’t enjoy his run, that wouldn’t be the reason.
As I said, I liked the recent season of the new _Doctor Who_, just as I liked “The Christmas Invasion” and the original series. Some episodes are better than others, but overall, I find _Doctor Who_ very enjoyable. And when I watched the first episode of the new series last April, I didn’t go in with any worries or concerns about how it would be “ruined.” (likewise the McGann T.V. movie). Rather, I just sat down to enjoy the Doctor’s return.
By the way, if anyone’s interested, the shooting scripts of the recent season are now available. I bought a copy at Borders a few weeks ago.
Rick
P.S. if multiple Doctors don’t usually get along, what would happen if the various incarnations of The Master got together? Which one would be first to lose his patience with the others and whip out the Tissue Compression Eliminator
RE: The StarWolf’s problem with the last episode of Season 27 Who.
(SPOILERS)
“But … who would design an nearly impregnable pill-box and forget to mount OFFENSIVE weapons?”
The TARDIS doesn’t have offensive or defensive capabilities on its own. The forcefield was generated by the “tribophysical waveform macrokinetic extrapolator” – the cosmic surfboard that they confiscated from the last Slitheen in the episode “Boom Town.” Hope that helps.
RE: People buying illicit DVDs on eBay
Hey guys, if you have no problem with securing an unavailable TV show early, go for it. However, don’t PAY for it. That’s just silly.
Look around the internet a bit–all the episodes are out there for download completely free.
Look around the internet a bit–all the episodes are out there for download completely free.
I have to say I agree.
Even with dial-up, you can get these files if you’re patient.
No sense in paying for it.
And yes, I have downloaded copies, of which I’ve sent out a couple of DVD’s of the episodes to others.
I would like to get the series when it comes out on DVD next month, but the cost (if it is was what was originally reported) might be a bit prohibative for awhile. And if Red Dwarf, Series VII is retailing for $50, then $100 for Doctor Who, Series I does seem likely.
Roger — thanks for the advice re: the new BG. Of course, I haven’t a clue when this “leisure time” you speak of is going to crop up, which is a hindrance.
(And you must be busy if you’re putting off watching Michelle Forbes. I remember your … interest from way back when.)
Craig —
I have the same sort of issues with the recent HHGttG movie – while it had Brits involved, it was more Hollywood than what made Adams’ material so enjoyable.
To a degree, but I think it also suffered from being shoehorned into a two-hour slot. I thought the essential Britishness of the piece still came through pretty well, and enjoyed the film quite a bit.
(That’s another good example of wariness, though. I was doing my share of cringing when I saw the “cute” Marvin in the initial press shots. Fortunately, he worked fine given Alan Rickman’s voice.)
TWL
>I don’t have a “favorite” Doctor. I like them all (though each has his particular strengths and weaknesses)
Yes, though it seems to me there would be a certain set of personality traits required to go bouncing around the universe that Sir Gallahad way. Tome Baker’s version seemed to exemplify them best. Some of the others I had a a harder time swallowing as really wanting to to gallivanting around time/space sticking their nose in other peoples’ business.
> the cosmic surfboard that they confiscated from the last Slitheen in the episode “Boom Town.” Hope that helps.
Yes, thanks, missed that one obviously. Although I do seem to recall the Doctor commenting in earlier lives that the TARDIS was supposed to be nigh-on indestructible anyway.
I have no conscience problems grabbing things for free of the Internet, but only if they simply aren’t available hereabouts. Once they finally make it down the pike to the local retailers, I’ll plunk down the cash for a legit copy and delete the earlier one.
Fans are naysayers because genre fans, for the most part, are conservative. Politically and sociologically.
When was there a study done that showed significantly over 50% of genre fans were conservative politically? Please provide the source.
I know Libertarianism…ala Heinlein…is popular among science fiction fans…but that’s not conservative. (A conservative, even today, would be horrified at the sexual morality of Heinlein’s later novels.)
There was no real fan outcry about upcoming Doctor Who before it aired. Having Russell T Davies as Head Writer smoothed a lot of worries and casting Eccleston smoothed a lot more.
BTW, for those who liked the series may I recommend
Casanova (written by Davies, starring David Tennant and Peter O’Toole)
Son Of Man (written by Davies, starring Eccleston)
Queer As Folk (the UK original, which rocketd Davies to stardom)
Coupling (the UK original, writen by Steven Moffat, the author of The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances)
The League Of Gentlemen (co-written and co-starring Mark Gatiss, who wrote the Dickens episode)
All available on DVD. Region 2 for some but hey, why would anyone not by a multiregion DVD?
“Son of Man”? Wasn’t it called “The Second Coming”? If that’s the one you’re talking about, yes, it was *brilliant* (and “Casanova” is hugely enjoyable too).
Also, newly available in Region 2 is the recent live remake of “The Quatermass Experiment”, co-starring David Tennant and Mark Gatiss, with Jason Flemyng (Dr. Jekyll in “LXG”) as Quatermass.
Starwolf,
On your problem with an unarmed but very well protected Tardis the weapons aren’t forgotten but purposefully not put on. It’s a cultural thing really, the Time Lords are insular to such an increible degree that the Doctor’s desire to see thing with his own eyes and actually meet some of the creatures out in the universe was considered a capital crime, not just his interfering with the problems of other species. The Timelords would use a Tardis for observation whilst staying hidden any use of weapons would be considered drawing too much attention to them. You protect the TARDIS and hide it and just remove yourself from danger but generally don’t fight back, it’s a siege mentality really. Of course there might be armed TARDIS but the Doctor’s dosen’t have a military craft, he was always supposed to have stolen an outmoded one when he left Galifrey.
One question I have the Tardis used to have it’s own force field, it’s used quite a lot in the earlier series so why didn’t it have it’s own one in the new version. I guess like the chameleon circuits, it another thing that has gone wrong over the years and the Doctor hasn’t been able to fix it.
On your other question about using the power of the Tardis again to fix any large scale problem, it was explained in the Christmas Invasion, that it wasn’t possible at least for Rose, without destroying half of the universe. So they have a sort of reason in place why they can’t use that everytime, they have a big problem to solve.
Dalek would definetly be the best Dr Who episode ever. Especially seeing Eccelston cover a wide gamut of emotions starting from terror of the dalek to outright hatred in wanting to see it die.
It’s not so much change or ‘the illusion of change’ that sometimes gets fans all persnikety. It’s when the change feels forced or naively designed for the short-term (‘All new, all different but exactly the way you’ve always liked it…’). If change grows naturally out of something, if the evolution of the concept can be seen and traced that’s one thing, but we can all point to TV and comics where there’s been a fundemental and sudden shift (or a claim of such)and that the ‘new’ product bears little resemblance to what has gone before. Occasionally that can be good, but it’s too often a case of hijacking a known commodity and stapling it to something totally different in the hope of having your cake and eating it. Alternatively, something is proclaimed as groundbreaking when it’s actually more of the same.
Of course, it’s all wonderfully 20-20 hindsight. I loathed the pompous Battlestar Galactica missionstatement before the mini-series aired but the result was outstanding. Dr Who had me a mite sceptical but it got better as the series went along, resulting in a reinvigoration of the concept, rather than just a re-imagining or remake.
It’s all down to the PR. Tout something as it is, rather than what you want it to be and there’s a much better chance the product will be respected. Fans will give almost anything a chance (even with grumble) if they aren’t misled or deluged with hype.
John
I second that on the original Coupling!
Have all 4 “series” (Seasons here in the US) on DVD and still re-watch them regularly and can’t stop luaghing/enjoying them!
Ah, yes, Second Coming…. well I was close.
I wonder if they’ll ever release Takin Over The Asylum – Ken Stott and David Tennant – must be over ten years old that.
Rick Keating – ISTR the coin flip thing goes back to Troughton.
A couple of comments on the Doctor Who thing.
Firstly, I think everyone should check out the quite fantastic official site:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/
which in addition to the usual wallpapers and sound files, has a Podcast commentary for The Christmas Invasion episode and – under Confidential in the Video section – over six and a half hours of Making Of documentaries.
Next, I’d have to say that only a small minority of fans had doubts before, during or after the series aired. They’re really, really vocal (and oddly fixated on the presence of gay characters) but only make up about 4% of the fans when polls are actually conducted.
Similarly, in 2003 Doctor Who fansite Outpost Gallifrey ran a poll amongst 5,000+ fans where each story was rated from 1 to 5. This was suplemented a month ago with a new poll just for the new series stories. What it found was that the fans consider The Empty Child (the one with the gasmasks) the third best story ever; the season overall the fourth best ever; and that the ‘Eccleston Era’ represented the best run of episodes any Doctor had ever had.
The naysayers like to take up a lot of bandwidth giving the impression that fans don’t like the new series but the evidence is that they really, really do.
In fact the only thing that’s *generally* disliked are the “Next Time” trailers after a cliffhanger…
Now, on the indestructablity of the TARDIS — as mentioned above the Time Lords don’t use weapons (there’s even one story where their homeworld is invaded and they spend a large chunk of it trying to figure out how to build a weapon!) but the TARDIS is generally considered indestructible. *However*, since the Daleks fought a Time War with the Time Lords, we can presume that the missles they fired were special, anti-TARDIS missles that the Doctor needed something extra to repel.
On SFX Magazine — I absolutely love it! And they’ve actually been extremely enthusiastic about the new show. In fact, it’s the New Buffy — in that it’s the show that some readers always moan there’s too much coverage of. The last issue has 19 pages given partly or wholly over to Who in some form or other!
You can check out their reviews of the series here:
http://www.sfx.co.uk/tv_reviews/a-z/
And, since this is principally a comics forum, I’d recommend the Doctor Who comic drawn by Mike Collins that appears as part of Doctor Who Magazine every month.
You know, I enjoyed the first couple of episodes. I thought the Dalek episode was extremely well done. However, overall, the show wasn’t that great, IMO. Something just didn’t click with me. I did enjoy Eccelston as the Doctor, though.
Fan response wasn’t that great? Most of the fan response I encountered was absolute unfettered enthusiasm in the fact that there was new Doctor Who at all. Also much approval of the fact that the Doctor would be returning to a more Britain-centered program (by and large the 96 movie seems to meet with Who fan disapproval). I can tell you that all of the die-hard Who fans I know (personally) were all for it. We all endeavored to obtain the episodes through “unauthorized” means, as no one in the states seems interested in showing them. Which is perplexing to me, because Doctor Who paired up with Galactica would make for a “fantastic” friday night line-up on sci-fi. More so than Farscape and Lexx. I’d probably stay in most Fridays (in winter) for that one.
Now Galactica, on the other hand, met with a very hostile reaction from all the sci-fi people I know. In particular they seemed to focus on the fact that Starbuck was now going to be a sex object (what happened was that they fixated on Number Six from early promotional stuff and believed that she would be Starbuck). I tended to be the lone voice who said, Hey, let’s give it a chance. About three minutes into the mini I was hooked. I just now finished watching the last of the season 2 dvd’s (I missed season 2 the first time because it was on in the summer) and can’t wait for Friday night.
Posted by: K at January 4, 2006 07:38 AM
Rick Keating – ISTR the coin flip thing goes back to Troughton.
I don’t recall Troughton ever flipping a coin, but perhaps you’ve seen episodes I haven’t. When I first saw _Doctor Who_ in the mid 1980s, there were only five Troughton episodes known to exist. Since then, at least one believed lost- “Tomb of the Cybermen-” has been found and released on DVD.
Still, if Troughton did do the coin flip- especially with the follow up of turning the coin over because the Doctor wasn’t satisfied with the result- then Davison’s Doctor doing the same thing was a nice echo of that.
Rick
I’m actually going to go a bit crazy here, and say: Sometimes the fan pessimism is right, and it’s the optimist fans who are knee-jerk insisting “This has to be great, you have to get behind it and support it or they won’t make anymore!”
Case in point: The Batman movies. Honestly, looking back on them, I can’t think of a single one I’ve liked, and that’s including ‘Batman Begins’. (I’ve watched it with five people, and they all find Christian Bale’s Bat-performance to be…well, at least three suspected he’d been drinking heavily, and a couple suspected head traumas. Oh, and they all found the Batmobile-pørņ chase sequence unintentionally hilarious. “Try to keep calm. Now I’m going to jump this parking ramp!”) Now, this is obviously just my opinion, and with the caveat that I’m brilliant and always right, I wouldn’t expect everyone to follow it. 🙂
But the fact of the matter is, it wasn’t an opinion I formed as part of a fan herd, mooing the same way everyone else mooed, it was one I formed over time, and even changed over time. (When I was 14, I loved the ’89 Batman movie. After seeing actors who can actually do action sequences, and directors who can direct them, that opinion has radically changed.)
I think what I’m trying to say here is that there are four possible ways that an opinion can form: One, disliking something just because it’s different, and insisting anyone who likes it has no critical faculties. (Peter has quite rightly pointed out how and why this is irritating and stupid, I feel no need to elaborate.)
Two, disliking something because you genuinely think it’s bad based on the evidence. (Case in point: The Dukes of Hazzard movie. I felt no need to go see the movie as some sort of test of my ability to accurately judge it, based solely on the trailers. I felt I’d judged it quite right. Was I “knee-jerk pre-judging” it? Or was it so self-evidently awful that the trailer left stink trails behind it?)
Three, loving something just because it’s the newest version of it, and insisting that all criticism of it is just type one (see above). (I freely admit, I liked the 1996 Doctor Who TV movie because, at the time, it was new Doctor Who and seemed like the only chance at more new Doctor Who, and I wasn’t willing to look critically at it. And I knee-jerk defended it, even against reasonable criticisms of it.)
Four, loving something because it’s new, exciting, and just absolutely spectacular, with great acting, awesome special effects, crackling good scripts, and quite possibly the best story in the history of the series in ‘The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances’. And that’s been my reaction ever since I found out Russell T Davies, author of the excellent (but sadly-out-of-print) Seventh Doctor novel ‘Damaged Goods’ would be behind it all.
My caveat (and it is more of a caveat that a complaint) to PAD’s post is that one should always try to take each type as its own, and never assume that someone hates something because it’s new or loves it because they’re sheep. Sometimes people like things because they do, and sometimes the people who decided to cast Keanu Reaves as John Constantine really do deserve to be put into body casts. 🙂
There’s always been fans of Doctor Who that are very vocal about their opinions. However, most of them were singing praises to the new series once they saw it.
As for why no one in the US has picked it up, SciFi didn’t feel it was right for them (not enough sex? Not enough action? They never said anything in detail), BBC America is really a BBC licensee via Discovery Networks. Half of the stuff on there aired on other British networks (ITV, Channel 4, etc.), not the BBC. They reportedly are in talks with the BBC to air it, though, so it may show up on there this year. Personally, I think that if they promoted it right, they’d get the biggest ratings they’ve ever gotten. The BBC worldwide distribution arm has probably been wanting more money for it than anyone was willing to pay, much like has happened with the original series and it’s disappearance from US TV screens.
One other thing that may raise the show’s profile in the US, is if the series gets nominated for a Hugo award this year. Since all of the members of the 2005 WorldCon in Glasgow are eligible to nominate, it should make the ballot as long as one or two specific episodes get nominated (either Dalek or Empty Child/Doctor Dances).
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It was showing on CBC, wasn’t it? I’m not a Who fan, but I did see an episode (mannequins from outer space or some such thing).
It was showing on CBC, wasn’t it?
Yep
I’m not a Who fan, but I did see an episode (mannequins from outer space or some such thing).
Those would be the Autons controlling the mannequins, and it’s from the first episode, “Rose”.
Actually, BBCA is wholely owned by BBC Worldwide, but is distribed by Discovery. (Strangly, Animal Planet is a co-owned venture)http://www.bbcworldwide.com/aboutus/corpinfo/annualreps/review2005/bus_channels_03.htm
I mention it as there does seeme to be a belief that BBCA is owned by Discovery. (but there’s all sorts of partnerships between DCI and BBCWW).
RE: BSG vs some other initials..
I imagine is that it’s because often shows are intialized with three or more letters than with just two…LSH, TNG, TOS, DS9, SG1, and so on.–and while “Battlestar” is 1 word..it’s a compound, made up word from two..so BSG.
RE: Batman
Y’know, I never had a problem with Michael Keaton cast as Batman..I knew him as a brilliant actor who’d deliver the complexity to Batman I wanted. I had major problems with Nicholson, though. I thought (?)second choice(?) Willem DaFoe would have been a far better choice for appearance and menace. (I don’t know if he was truly second choice, or if that’s just one of those fan myths)
Spider-Man The Other: seriously….THAT’S the big change..the half thing?….with that and the upcoming divorce/widowing/ring of retcon erasing of Mary Jane and the wedding, why am I wanting to try reading Spider-Man again?
BSG vs Doctor Who:
The “New” Doctor Who is just more Doctor Who…no differnt really then when Peter Davison took over from Tom Baker. It’s still maintains the same themes that the originals did.
I was with the new BSG until in the mini-series bored me to death by streaching maybe 2 hours worth of story into a 4 hour 2 night “event”. It retells the “story” of the original, but it’s ignored the themes. Throughougt the original, there’s “hope”. They’re searching for Earth, a quest they believe in. The new one, the search for Earth is a lie they were told. They’re now retrofiting that maybe it wasn’t a lie onto the series, but it’s hardly the same. The only reason that the humans are even still alive against the overwhelmingly supperior power of the Cylons is that the cylons have a plan..oh yes..they have a plan..seriously..I’ve seen the blueprints..looks marvelous.
If it wasn’t for the fact that they made the evil killing machines conservative Christians, I’d have bailed compleatly on the show.
Andy Ihnatko – remains one of my favorite tech columnists. Just thought I’d mention it:-)
Sometimes the fan pessimism is right, and it’s the optimist fans who are knee-jerk insisting “This has to be great, you have to get behind it and support it or they won’t make anymore!”
I think part of the issue here is that both the pessimism and the optimism tend to be woven out of whole cloth on many occasions, or at best based on fragmentary evidence.
Since most of my online writing’s been Trek-related, I’ll use that as an example. As I said before, some people said in advance that Voyager was going to be dreadful because it had a female captain, or because Tuvok was black. That, to me, seems like pessimism based on not a lot of evidence.
On the other hand, some friends of mine said, “it’s the same writers who are doing most of TNG, and I’m not thrilled with what TNG’s done lately so I doubt I’ll like this.” That may or may not be justified pessimism in the face of the final product, but it’s certainly well-founded and based on actual experience.
I agree with your overall point, though: not all pessimism is unfounded, and not all optimism is the result of people being sheep.
TWL
Of course not all changes are for the better. To me personally, the most frustrating example is Andromeda. I loved the first season. I still liked the second season a lot. But then it went rapidly downhill and I didn`t even bother watching the last seasons. It was just too painful, annoying and frustrating.
It was similar with Earth, Final Conflict. Great start but soon after the first season, I couldn`t stand it any more.
Especially after Andromeda, I am indeed skeptical when changes and new directions are announced that are supposedly so much better. But I usually can tell pretty quickly if these announcements were accurate – at least when it is about my personal preferences and taste.
I’m not sure PAD has the best perspective on this after the hatchet job he did on Commander Courage.
Some things you can tell are bad just by hearing about it.
PAD’s post has some resonance for me after seeing some fan’s reactions to the new Doctor Who series on Outpost Gallifrey. After reading some of their posts, I was convinced that a large majority of Who fans hated the new series. More than that, they hated Russell T. Davies for stealing “their” series away from them and making it popular for a mainstream audience again. I’ve been a fan of Who since I was 12 years old – it’s been the secret lynchpin of my imagination for two decades now. So seeing one of my favourite TV series rise to prominence again is just wonderful. And ‘The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances’ is right up there with ‘City of Death’ as being one of my favourite stories anywhere.
And when it comes to conservative fan reactions, I ashamedly admit to pleading guilty. I wasn’t predisoposed towards liking the new BSG series. I changed my mind after watching the mini-series three times in a row. And the first season was even better.
Of course not all changes are for the better. To me personally, the most frustrating example is Andromeda.
[Gandalf] “Name it not!” [/Gandalf]
I’m sure there are exceptions to the rule, but as a general rule I’d say that any “bold new direction” which involves firing the creator of the series is likely to turn out as a bad idea in the end. (Picture B5 if JMS had been tossed midway through season 2. His writing may not be perfect, but I think that’s a pretty frightening thought.)
TWL
HOLD ON theres a new Dr. Who? WOW i must have been out of it for a long time…
“I’m not sure PAD has the best perspective on this after the hatchet job he did on Commander Courage.”
Oh, I had totally forgotten about that! ‘Codename: C.O.U.R.A.G.E.’?!?! What was up with that one, Peter? Mortgage late that week? I mean, you did your best with that concept, but it was just an abomination right from the start.
Glad the movie version got canned, to be honest.
I’ve just heard that, in addition to the comic in Doctor Who Magazine, they’re launching a new comic called Doctor Who Adventures!
Now, if only we knew some DW enthusiast who was also an accomplished comics writer… hmm..
Is there any chance for you to collobarate with Panini or Doctor Who Magazine for a comic strip or two…?