The official “Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince” spoiler-filled discussion thread.
Definitely better than the previous entry. It didn’t feel as forced, and Harry seems to have shaken off the obnoxious teen attitude that made him so difficult to take before. I shot through the book in record time. Rowling is doing a good job of jacking up the stakes and setting up book 7 to be a major payoff to a major epic. Loved that the long-predictable Harry/Ginny pair-off finally came to fruition, with the equailly inevitable Ron/Hermoine pairing on the horizon.
However…
Not blown away by the fact that Harry spends the whole book saying that he believes Malfoy is up to something and NO ONE believes him. Haven’t we danced this dance? When is this kid gonna get some freakin’ credibility? If the guy who is the foretold champion of good against the Mega Evil Badguy says that the son of one of the MEB’s head henchmen is up to something, then it should be time to saddle up, put Malfoy in a small room, shove a few truth-telling spells up his ášš and see what there is to see. Instead everyone’s basically telling Harry he’s not giving Malfoy a fair shake. What the hëll–?!
And, of course, the big question: Dumbledore.
I’m joining with the “I don’t believe he’s dead” crowd. Why? Because one of the main thrusts of the book was learning to THINK what spell you’re trying to cast, without saying it. Which means that what Snape SAID wasn’t necessarily what he was THINKING. And if he was thinking about some spell that simulated death, then the words he uttered are irrelevant. I mean, what it comes down to is that for Dumbledore to be truly dead, Rowling has made him look like an idiot for having defended Snape for the previous books. Which, if she wants to do that, okay, it’s her call. But then it brings everyone else down a few pegs, not the least being Voldermort who feared Dumbledore above all others. If one man’s death diminishes us all, Dumbledore’s death diminishes pretty much everyone in the book who valued his wisdom and power. Which may not bother Rowling one iota, but it bothers me. Then again, she’s the multimillionaire and I’m just some guy with a quirky blog, so…
PAD
• 
Creating a horcrux you must commit murder …like Voldie did when he killed Harry’s parents. They make a passing reference to the fact that animals can be a horcrux, so why not a human.
Harry is the last horcrux….therefore Harry will realize during the final battle that he must die to end the threat that is Voldemort.
I am among the few that believe Dumbledore is indeed alive and well, that is unless Sirius makes a comeback…I’ll leave the explanation to Ms. Rowling, but one of them will have to be back to explain to Harry how Snape really is a good guy. Harry will not believe it, as usual, but it will likely be Snape who figures out how to take the horcrux soul fragment from within Harry. Snape will then take Harry’s rightful place and die to end Voldemort forever.
So to sum up
Harry is the last Horcrux
Snape is really a good guy
Dumbledore or Sirius will return
Snape will take the final hit to prove after all he was a good guy.
Then if we are really lucky in 15-20 years Ms. Rowling will take the path set before her by another fantasy hack, and give us some really crappy prequels. They will then be made into films filled with very capable actors directed to play chunks of wood.
Boy I can’t wait!
I’m in the Dumbledore’s dead but Snape’s not evil camp, although I kinda wish he was a bad guy. I think the fact that he was continuing to teach Harry while he was blocking Harry’s curses was a definite sign that he was a good guy, along with the fact that he protected Harry before finally departing Hogwarts.
That said, I’m reasonably certain Harry or someone else in the Order is gonna kill Snape for this. Just screams miscommunication.
I was thinking maybe Harry was a Horcrux, Dumbledore said that Riddle’s non-chalant usage of the journal indicated that there were more of them. Well now that he had his body back and had other horcruxes why couldn’t he just make more? What is losing one of his many horcruxes in the process of killing Harry, especially if Harry’s his only real threat? Just an interesting thought.
My real question is what is the significance of their wands? Will they be able to really fight each other? Is Harry and Hermione gonna trade wands right before the final duel so that Harry can fight him? Is Harry just gonna haul off and hit Voldy? I can’t wait for that…
I do wonder how in the world Harry thinks he even has a chance to defeat Voldy… I mean he stinks at Occlemency. Love? I just don’t know how exactly love is gonna do it when you’re getting through just on luck…
Best of Luck to him though, I’m gonna miss these books when there are no more… Ra!
“Will they be able to really fight each other?”
Sure, so long as Harry realizes that he just can’t use his wand DIRECTLY against Voldemort. “Accio Tec-9!”
-Rex Hondo-
Another Snape theory to add to the pile. Snape was trusted by Dumbledore because of his love for Lily, she was his one true friend throughout his time at Hogwarts, both naturals at potions, she protected him against James and the rest etc. When Voldemort went to kill the Potters, his feelings for her caused his defection.
As to his killing of Dumbledore, I think it’s real but was done for reasons not mentioned so far. Throughout the books, Snape has always accused Harry and his father of arrogance but I think it’s one of his failing as well. The tone of his writing in the potion’s book, the way he treats everyone who dosen’t meet his standards, etc. When asked to make an unbreakable vow he arrogantly assumes that he will be to break it, trick it or anyway get out of it. The person casting the vow was Nigella and she wouldn’t have left anyway wiggle room, Snape’s hand twitched when she he made this vow because he was realising he was putting his lfe on the line. He swore that he would kill Dumbledore if Malfoy couldn’t, and at the top of the tower it was obvious Malfoy coudn’t. This was not because lack of ability or chance to, it was because Malfoy couldn’t bring himself to kill, Snape found himself in a position where he must kill Dumbledore or die himself. He couldn’t cast another spell to fool the vow as he would know the truth and the vow would then kill him. He choose his own life over Dumbledore’s, he choose the cowards way out. This is why when Harry is accusing him of being a coward on the chase through Hogwarts he reacts with such fury, because he believes he is and can’t stand his fault being shouted out at him. This also ties in with his arrogance being his undoing and his loss of his perfect view of himself.
He will redeem himself in the last book I believe at the cost of his own life, coming in to save Harry and giving him the chance he needs to get to Voldemort. I am quite looking for a scene where Harry faces Voldemort and announce he has destroyed all his Holocruxes and that he is mortal again
It’s a gyp if Snape turns out to really be a villain after all the interminable chapters of Harry saying he is evil and then being proved wrong (again) at the end of every previous book. I for one hope snape turns out to be a good guy, would be too boring the other way. Though I agree with the theory that Rowling will kill him off for pathos in book 7 (dying in Harry’s arms as Potter realises he was good all along… oh the humanity!). And I hope Dumbledore stays dead – we may as well just start calling him Gandalf otherwise.
PAD, thanks for starting this thread! It rocks!
Count me in with the “Dumbledore’s not dead” crowd. Going through all of the posts, I’ve seen some very convincing evidence that goes both ways. What does it for me, though, is just the gut feeling I had at the end, when the Big D was saying, “Please, Severus…Please.” Something about the way that was written set off my “this can’t be really happening” alarms! Of course, that could just be denial. Guess I’ll have to wait for Book 7 to figure out which it is.
You know something, I just realized that Lord Voldemort- oops, sorry, I mean, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, doesn’t appear in this book at all, except in flashbacks or Pensieve explorations. Unless I’m misremembering. Now, I’m wondering what he was doing the whole time. He could have been out creating new horcruxes, but I don’t think so. The whole horcrux scenario, at least to me, seemed to play out that 7 was the magically significant number of horcruxes and probably as many pieces as he could rip his soul into. Now that they’re being destroyed, those pieces of his soul are gone, so he can’t be creating new ones. At least, that was my interpretation.
On a semi-related side note, I’m loving the previews I’ve seen of HP4, coming out in theaters this November!
Bill
hrrrmm, I enjoyed the first 4 books, though I was so ticked after the ending of GOF that I’d pretty much given up on the series. After all, the whole freakin’ book was naught but a ruse to bring Voldemort back to power, which was a slap in the face, imho. How many would have seen the last three Star Wars films, after all, had they been shown in their rightful order? Ok, stupid question… anyway, had not a co-worker let slip the big dramatic and tragic turns of this particular novel, I’d have not bothered reading it. Knowing what’s up kinda preps one for the blow, which might be cowardly to some, but keeps their expensive hardback from sailing across the room, as Goblet did years ago. Yeah, I’m an emotional reader.
Anyway, on to theories… the previous “Dumbledore as Animagus” sounds pretty feasible, and his choice being the Phoenix would be, well, apropos(heh). A theory of my own is that there might be a flip-side to the hoarcrux spell, wherein a mage sacrifices his life, and places his spirit, entire, within an item. Like, say, that amulet he acquired at the end. And the mysterious R.A.B.? Here I’ve a long shot and rather juvenile idea, but going along with Dumbledore’s possible covert tracking of Harry(like Harry’d misplace the item that supposedly costed D his life?) it makes sense. Take an A(lbus) and an H(arry), and meld ’em… somethin’ like an R would appear, donchathink? And follow this with a D(umbledore) and a P(otter), and a B certainly seems most likely. Yeah, I know, everyone wants it to be Regulus… whatever, having skipped OOTP I’ll have to say my understanding of the Black family legacy is rather limited. For Harry’s sake, in the long run, I hope it’s the case…
As for Snape, I can only foresee(not the Grim, dammit!) him turning into the true martyr of the story. And I think the next book is going to show how much one’s perception of their parents is deluded, and we’ll see that only after meeting Lily did James Potter become a truly caring individual. Which will also assist us in understanding why Snape carries such a grudge. I’m guessing James was only a LITTLE better than Draco, which, when revealed, will help Harry in sympathizing a bit with the Malfoy misfit.
Just my two knuts… i.e. pennies, and not those of a tenderer variety ^_^
Real quick:
I don’t believe that Harry is the last horcrux; Harry’s *SCAR* is!
Hooper
I just do not see Harry or any part of Harry being a Horcrux. If he was, then Voldemort would not be trying so hard to kill him. If Harry does indeed house a Horcrux, then Voldemort needs him alive to keep the Horcrux safe & sound.
As for Dumbledore being “dead & gone”. All the other past Hogwarts’ Headmasters are represented in paintings in Dumbledore’s office, so Dumbledore should be as well. So yes he’s dead, but he’ll still be around….
Finally, Snape is evil. I believe Dumbledore had faith in Snape and Snape let him down. That doesn’t make Dumbledore a fool or blind, just merely a poor judge of character. Snape played him, pure and simple.
HMC Said “Another Snape theory to add to the pile. Snape was trusted by Dumbledore because of his love for Lily, she was his one true friend throughout his time at Hogwarts, both naturals at potions, she protected him against James and the rest etc. When Voldemort went to kill the Potters, his feelings for her caused his defection.”
I personally don’t think the Snape/Lily theories fly b/c of what Harry saw in the Pensieve in OOTP, when Lily comes up to try and stop James from tormenting Snape, and Snape says, “I don’t need help from filthy little mudbloods like her!” His hatred for her, and all Muggle-borns seemed clear, I thought.
Reading the page of “Dumbledore is not Dead” mentioned in a posting above, makes me think that perhaps Dumbledore isn’t dead…but I don’t want to get my hopes up in case he really is dead. There is an especially interesting quote from the book, that has a paragraph in the UK edition (and my own Canadian edition) that is missing two sentences that are included in the US edition. The two sentences are near the end, when Dumbledore is trying to convince Draco to switch sides.
There is also interesting evidence that may prove Snape is good after all.
Would recommend the site as an interesting read. http://www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com
The Potion: So Dumbledore could put his hand past the barrier with a goblet…why couldn’t he just poured it into a different basin? Why did he have to drink it? That didn’t make sense to me. And when Harry found out the necklace wasn’t a Horcrux, I thought…Dumbledore didn’t know what this potion was, so how could RAB know what it was and be able to replace it so Voldemort didn’t know it had been tampered with until he went to retrieve his Horcrux?
I confess that I find myself wondering about this a lot. If RAB managed to retrieve the real Horcrux, then quite possibly the potion in the basin that Dumbledore drank isn’t the same potion as Voldemort put there to surround the Horcrux. So the potion RAB put there might be different effect than the one Voldemort originally placed there.
I don’t have a copy of the book at hand, but has anyone parsed the things that Dumbledore was saying while quaffing all that potion? If we can figure out what that potion was really doing to Dumbledore, maybe we can conclude that RAB intended for the potion to do those things to Voldemort if/when he ever tried to retrieve the locket Horcrux…
If Snape does turn out to be on the side of good, that’ll suck, because it will basically mean Dumbledore was right…again…as he always is…
I like the idea of Harry as a Horcrux, and perhaps Voldemort NEEDS that piece of his soul back, hence the need to kill Harry…
“Sure, so long as Harry realizes that he just can’t use his wand DIRECTLY against Voldemort. “Accio Tec-9!”
Check it out!
http://www.potterpuppetpals.com
Another speculation totally unrelated to anything else.
Malfoy was charged with killing Dumbledore. He failed. Voldemort does not treat failures kindly.
Snape has promised to protect Malfoy and keep him safe. There is only one way Snape can do this:
Send him to the Order of the Phoenix.
My guess: Next book, while Harry is setting up housekeeping at Sirius’ old place, Malfoy is going to show up on his doorstep, all surly, saying “I don’t like this any better than you do, but Dumbledore offered me protection…”
(Cue the theme music to “The Odd Couple”)
Personally, I believe Dumbledore is dead, and Snape killed him. However, I agree that Snape killed him on Dumbledore’s orders, not Snape’s. As Peter says at the top, Voldemort doesn’t trust anyone and he never will. He certainly isn’t going to trust a spy that is a good enough Occlemens to fool Dumbledore. Unless of course, that person found a way to prove his loyalty above all others. That’s why Dumbledore had Snape kill him, to save Draco’s soul, to save Draco’s life, and to trick Voldemort into actually trusting Snape. And that puts Snape in position to be the key figure helping Harry out in the endgame.
Dumbledore hasn’t always been right. He’s made mistakes, and he admits such at the end of Order of the Phoenix. But if he’s wrong about Snape after six books of claiming Snape is on the side of the angels, then he’s wrong about Love being the strongest magic there is, and that’s not where JKR wants to go.
Something will happen at the wedding to convince Harry to return to Hogwarts. I also think the magical protection of Harry’s at #4 Privet Drive will be sorely tested this summer.
I do believe Harry is the 6th Horcrux, but I do not believe Voldemort knows that. I think Dumbledore also did not realize that.
After reading it, I agreed with Peter…why the big deal about silent spells, if not as a disguise for a fake Snape spell at the end…and Rowling just isn’t a daring enough writer to have Dumbledore having been a fool about snape all this time. So the pleading to snape was a code for “Do the fake killing me thing now.”
Then a friend went thru the ->unbreakable vow->snape/dumbledore argument bit. and I’ve pretty much converted to the Dumbledore died side.
Dumbledore would sacrifice himself to save one of his students…which besides Harry includes both Malfoy and Snape. So, if by his death, he saves their lives, he’s all up for that.
If dead, he’ll clearly do the Obi-Wan thing, likely from the portrait-since Headmaster portraits are special, say how everything is true from a certain point of view, and that Hermione is Harry’s sister.
The Slughorn Illusion theory is interesting though…and as for the poison that Dumbledore was drinking, I’m sure he had a bezoar, as one was pulled out of Chekov’s cabinet earlier in the book.
My mom also pointed at Harry sees a phoenix shape in Dumbledore’s funeral pyre…so maybe he comes back as šlûŧŧÿ redhead…
As for the book itself, I thought it was awful in pacing…there was a lot of “Harry realized he hadn’t seen Malfoy in months” “Harry kissed Ginny, and then several weeks later…”. The entire Tonks subplot was pointless and tacked on. I suppose the bully who wanted to play on the Quiddich team was a good red herring for the poisoning subplot, but it ultimatly went nowhere. I always dislike when the book focuses less on the classroom elements. After all the strife about Snape teaching DADA, it might have been nice to see some of the classes.
An ok book, but too much focused on getting to the final bits, rather than on the story as a whole.
And me and the same friend had a chat whith a nice resolution to the whole Voldemort problem:
[13:06] me: one person with a revolver puts an end to all this real quick
[13:06] friend: All but Voldy..
[13:06] me: even him really…
[13:07] me: everytime he tries to stand back up after 11 years, just pop him again
[13:08] friend: after the shock of muggle-induced death the first time, he casts an anti-bullet spell as soon as he gets up.
[13:08] me: no wand…no spell
[13:09] me: it’s a flaw in Hogwarts trained wizards
[13:09] friend: He can use any old wand.
[13:09] me: right..but you got the body there…you don’t put any sticks next to it.
[13:11] friend: No body… jus a spirit. You need a muggle-designed ghostbusters spirit-trapping thingie as well.
[13:12] me: no. there was no body left time cuz of the curse backfire…
[13:12] me: this time, you got a body
[13:12] me: a new holiday..
[13:12] me: Cap Busting Day
[13:12] me: each year, someone in the wizarding world is chosen to bust a cap in his ášš
[13:12] friend: But his spirit’s not in it. He made himself a new body. He was “less than a ghost”
[13:12] me: cuz his body was destroyed
[13:13] friend: Still, a neat idea if you can work around that. Heck, you can create a body for him once a year.
[13:13] me: this time, it just has a bullet hole
[13:14] friend: Gringott’s Cap Busting Lotto.
[13:14] me: there you go!
[13:15] friend: but I think the body thing still doesn’t work, but heck, the idea’s sound. Leave that detail for the engineers… or whatever the wizardly equivalent happens to be.
A theory of my own is that there might be a flip-side to the hoarcrux spell, wherein a mage sacrifices his life, and places his spirit, entire, within an item.
Well, isn’t this kind of what Lily Potter did?
On another note, another element Potter-philes have recognized is that the saga’s two major deaths thus far are Sirius Black and Albus (i.e. “White”) Dumbledore.
So, if this chromatic aspect is to be followed, what other characters’ colorful names might mark them for death? Well, there’s Fenrir Greyback and also Rubeus Hagrid.
Also, some scholars of alchemy apparently claim that alchemal work is often described as having three stages: black, white, and red. Go figure.
And, heck, it occurs to me that the flag of Egypt is red, white, and black, too. Say…didn’t the Weasleys take a trip to Egypt at some point? 😉
Kurt said “Another speculation totally unrelated to anything else. Malfoy was charged with killing Dumbledore. He failed. Voldemort does not treat failures kindly. Snape has promised to protect Malfoy and keep him safe. There is only one way Snape can do this: Send him to the Order of the Phoenix. My guess: Next book, while Harry is setting up housekeeping at Sirius’ old place, Malfoy is going to show up on his doorstep, all surly, saying “I don’t like this any better than you do, but Dumbledore offered me protection…”
(Cue the theme music to “The Odd Couple”)”
I figure this was meant as a joke, but the idea has merit; in the Unbreakable Vow, Snape did say he would protect Malfoy from harm, and there was no time limit set on the protection…and TOOTP really is the only organization that could conceivably protect/hide him from Lord Voldemort…
I tried to read the first Harry Potter, book a few months ago. I couldn’t get through it though the book feels so…old. Maybe Rowling should have set the book in the 1940’s. The only thing I could think of while trying to get through the first book was…”It is 2005, isn’t it?”
Alrighty, I have to say that I’m currently leaning towards the “Dumbledore’s dead but Snape’s on the side of the angels” camp. Also, I have faith that if Dumbledore does manage somehow to come back, it will fit with evidence already in the books and not through some deus ex machina (magica?). She’s done that sort of thing before.
Things that jumped out at as evidence on various points:
Dumbledore begging to Snape. Totally out of character. Albus was totally in control of the situation up until that point. Also, he would not, under any circumstance (I believe) beg for his life. He was pleading with Snape to kill him and go through with the plan.
Never finding out just WHY Dumbledore trusted Snape. Rowling has an almost compulsive need to explain everything. I’m sure we’ll get that reason in book 7, at the appropriately dramatic moment.
At the funeral, we see a shrouded form, but not an actual body.
Also on the tower, Dumbledore says something to Malfoy along the lines of “They can’t hurt you if they think you’re dead.”
Other random thoughts:
Somebody mentioned Bellatrix zapping Narcissa, which I had forgotten, actually. Could Narcissa actually have been Dumbledore in disguise, not the other way around, explaining the hand, as well as Snape’s twitch during the vow? All part of the plan…
Snape’s affection for, and desire to protect Malfoy could be explained simply as Severus seeing a lot of himself in the boy, and recognizing the path he’s starting down and the personal ruin to which it can lead. If Snape truly has been redeemed, he would wish the same for Malfoy.
Also, if we now know that it’s possible to modify memories, how do we know that what Harry saw in the penseive is genuine? True, Slughorn wasn’t very good at it, but Snape would be MUCH more skilled. Perhaps it was a memory he had been working on modifying for Voldemort’s benefit, and that’s part of the reason he was SO mad that Harry saw it. This opens the possibility that Snape isn’t such a purist after all and perhaps he really DID have feelings for Lily. Note, whenever he wants to snipe at Harry, he always makes comments only about his father.
I don’t believe Harry is a hoarcrux. It makes very little logical sense, unless he somehow did it at the same time as his resurrection in book 4. Still, he seems selfish enough with his life that I don’t think he’d risk putting part of his soul into somebody he’d have to destroy, especially since he tried to kill him IMMEDIATELY after he came back.
That’s about it for now. Maybe I’ll have more later, maybe not. Back to work, for now…
-Rex Hondo-
I keep thinking that Snape may have TWO unbreakable vows going. One with Malfoy AND one with Harry or Dumbledore OR someone else (Lily)?
It’s important I think that Snape is most angered at Harry at the end when Harry calls him a coward. It seems like Snape has it the worst… betray the death eaters (his old comrades) AND betray Dumbledore (although I think it’s part of a scheme) Snape is doomed to be mistrusted by ALL. Bummer for him.
Snape is not perfect. He’s actually somewhat horrible as a person, yet somehow he has gained the faith od Dumbledore. I don’t think Albus makes mnistakes like that.
It”s fun to talk about, though.
The replaced Dumbledore idea is interesting. Slughorn? Hmmm…
Anyway, if it’s not clear, I’m in the Dumbledore is probably dead (although the whole phoenix thing puts that into question a bit) and Snape is not evil. He killed Dumbledore bevasue he had to to stay in with the evil ones.
Dumbledore is as dead as Elvis and Obi-Wan. Get over it.
To me, Snape’s true convictions hinge upon the the House of Slytherin. For six years we’ve seen this place referred to as “a wretched hive of scum and villainy.” And yet, the worst you could say about the Slytherin students is that for a time, Malfoy, Crabbe, Goyle and Pansy Parkingson belonged to the Hitler Youth. Their allegiance to Gautleiter Dolores Umbredge was as passing a fancy as that similar alllegience was to the Pope. As was Malfoy’s actions in the latest book.
So, why are the Slytherin in this saga at all? Their predilections don’t line up with those of the other houses. Griffindor’s are brave, Ravenclaws are smart, Hufflepuffs are drudges, and Slytherins are…powerhungry? Is being powerhungry automatically evil?
The most convincing evidence I’ve seen that Snape is evil involves the other evil adults in the series. All of them have been people above reproach, from Professor Quirrel to Dolores Umbridge. Despite everything nasty he has done, Snape has been held in high esteem by everyone. For him to be really good in the end…would be a complete change in Rowling’s methodology. And she’s not that ingenious a writer.
Ummm… Thomas, have you actually read the books. Snape was onto Quirrell from day one, and NOBODY liked Umbridge.
And besides, J.K. Rowling is at least talented enough a writer to keep millions of readers of all ages enthralled for six books (and counting), to have things figured out far enough ahead to mention little, seemingly innocuous things in passing that turn out to be pretty important a book or two later, and to drop enough seemingly contradictory evidence that we’ve already discussed and debated Dumbledore’s death and Snapes guilt for HOW long now? (sorry for the run-on nitemare, but it’s been a long night)
-Rex Hondo-
My thought about why Dumbledore is really dead – Snape has to stay alive.
I think Snape is Harry’s secret keeper. Or not really Harry’s but Aunt Petunia and/or Dumbledore’s. This is why Harry has been safe at Privet Lane all those years. Remember, Voldie only found his parents because Wormtail turn tail and told him where they were.
Oh, and I think the last horcrux is Wormtail’s metal hand.
His hand? Interesting. The metal hand appears in book four, but Pettigrew himself appears with his own mutilated hand in book three.
Seven horcruxes, and seven books:
1. Harry’s scar.
2. Riddle’s Diary.
3. Pettigrew’s Hand
4. The snake Nagini.
5. The locket in the Black House.
6. Marvolo’s ring.
7. Voldemort himself.
This seems almost too neat.
Well this is winging it, as my books are at home, but Peter Pettigrew’s hand and forearm were cut off and tossed into the cauldron of potion used for re-animating Voldemort. After that event the evil genius called in the Death Eaters and proclaimed that this was how he rewarded faithful service – and the silver metal arm appeared where the flesh had been. This all happened just after Cedric’s death.
A crime of opportunity, but still.
I’m still holding out for Harry to be the last Horcrux. That gives us:
the diary
the ring
the snake
the locket
Voldemort
Harry
an item of Ravenclaw
thing about it-V. kills James. Lily sacrifices herself, giving protection to Harry. This powerful magic warps Voldy’s magic, turning Harry into a horcrux. Voldy tries to kill Harry, instant magical rebound. Voldy doesn’t realize that this has happened-he’s lost something every time he has split his soul, and it has taken a toll. This is why Harry has great powers and is a parselmouth, as well as being able to see into Voldy’s dreams and thoughts. In the end, either Harry must sacrifice himself to destroy Voldy (she has always said that she can’t promise he’d live through the last book) or else find a way to remove the piece of Voldy’s soul from him.
I think the horcruxes are in Sirius’ house, placed there by Regulus before he was killed.
Snape isn’t good, but is on the side of the angels this time. He did kill Dumbledore, at Albus’ pleading. Just my two cents.
Rex Hondo, yes ,I read the books. But…if Snape saw through Quirrel, he didn’t do much but “give a warning.” That suspicion didn’t carry through to any of the other teachers. Snape didn’t do very much except intimidate Quirrel, which didn’t last. And although none of the teachers liked Umbridge, the Ministry of Magic sure did…
Basically, Rowling is following the pattern that people who are well-regarded in the wizarding community (the aforementioned two, the fake Mad-Eye Moody, Crouch and more) are either out-and-out evil or have secrets in their past that force them to do evil acts. People who are suspicious are often doing the work of good – Dumbledore has been a thorn in the side of the Ministry, Hagrid frightens many because of his half-giant heritage, and need I mention Sirius Black? No, but I should mention Harry, who in his most active books (from 2 on) has been suspected by the Ministry of Magic. His reputation was backstabbed by The Daily Prophet as effectively as Bill Clinton’s by the New York Whørë Times, and for as little reason.
Given that basis, which I don’t think Rowling has strayed from, Snape is almost certainly evil, because everyone approved of him at the school, including Hagrid, McGonigal and Dumbledore. The kids mostly dislike him (except the Slytherins), but who cares what kids think? Even if they turn out to be right? Nobody in the wizarding world, that’s for sure.
But you’re shifting your definition of “the wizarding world” from the Ministry (Umbridge) to the Hogwarts staff (Snape). If a pattern exists, it’s more that those approved by the outside world but not by the Hogwarts staff are the ones likely to be untrustworthy. Dumbledore, Sirius and Hagrid are distrusted to some degree by the Ministry and the wider wizarding world, and are trustworthy; Umbridge and Lockhart are approved of by the wizarding world and disliked by the Hogwarts staff, and are untrustworthy. Under that pattern, Snape must be trustworthy. (I don’t think we know enough about how the rest of the staff regarded Quirrell to count him; the fake Moody was using someone else’s reputation, but he wasn’t universally approved of either–McGonagall came down on him for his punishment of Malfoy, for example.)
Also, there’s a difference between “approved of” and “trusted.” All the people mention trusted Snape as an anti-dark wizard, but they didn’t necessarily approve of all his actions (there’s evidence that McGonagall doesn’t like the favoritism he shows Slytherin but is too professional to say so in front of the students, for example).
Besides, if we apply your shifting definition, Professor Flitwick must be evil, right? No one’s ever said a bad word about him…
I always thought Dumbledore would be one of the characters to die in the series. I believe he is dead, and I don’t think Rowling will pull a Gandalf or comic book-like ressurection. It would cheapen the character, and what he has stood for. He has made mistakes before, but he’s not feeble enough to have misjudged Snape. I also think Dumbledore could have mopped the floor with all of the Death Eaters on the tower, wand or no wand, weakened or not. He as much told Malfoy that he had Dumbledore’s mercy, and was not in control of the situation. Dumbledore would NOT plead for his own life, but for Malfoy’s. The Unbreakable Vow was probably approved by Dumbledore from the start. And I think Dumbledore achieved what he sought for Harry — a tiny spark of pity for Malfoy.
I believe Snape had a secret love for Lilly since she was kind to him — even if he called her a mudblood — he was embarrassed at the time by her boyfriend.
And R.A.B.?
Black’s brother, maybe. Good as any guess right now. But I bet he/she/it was a former Death Eater, since the salutation in the note refers to Voldemort as the “Dark Lord.” Don’t Death Eaters only call him this?
Bob, you make some good points, and raise a new spectre. It may be that Rowling wants to be quit of Harry Potter himself at the end of this book. But she doesn’t want to give up on the biggest winning event of her life – who would?
So, RAB (who I suspect is Regulus Black – note how Rowling specifically avoids mentioning the Black family name anywhere near there?) has managed to take one of the Horcruxes. In other words, there are traitors among the Death Eaters – not ones who want to betray Voldemort to the Ministry, but ones who want to use him as a stepping stone to their own schemes.
Which means that, even if Potter dies or if Rowling no longer writes about him, there will continue to be intrigues in the wizarding world. Which Rowling can license to other writers (taking a lion’s share of the profit) in the same way that Lucas has made a cottage industry of Star Wars.
Meaning…perhaps our favorite Writer of Stuff might get to write a book in the Potterverse. Even though he wouldn’t make as much money as if Rowling were to write a book in the Apropos-verse.
Someone answer my rather obvious question: is the Harry Potter series of books something an adult would enjoy? I’ve thought of buying the first volume just to sample it. The whole series would require quite a time commitment. I’ve yet to read Tolkien’s Rings trilogy for the same reason, although I’ve enjoyed his short stories.
“Someone answer my rather obvious question: is the Harry Potter series of books something an adult would enjoy? I’ve thought of buying the first volume just to sample it.”
Yes. Many, mnay adults that I know enjoy the book. Heck, most (if not all) the people posting in this thread are adults. But you are right, they can get really expensive, money and time wise. My recomendation: Library. If you read a lot you can get through them pretty well, but they are a major time commitment no matter what.
Snape is not the enemy. Dumbeldore is *not* dead
You all should take a minute to see how the “killing curse” is spelled in the first 5 novels and then compare that to the spelling of the curse that Snape used on Dumbledore. You might find something intersting.
Jim “Spoon” Henry
Snape is not the enemy. Dumbeldore is *not* dead
You all should take a minute to see how the “killing curse” is spelled in the first 5 novels and then compare that to the spelling of the curse that Snape used on Dumbledore. You might find something intersting.
Jim “Spoon” Henry
Snape is not the enemy. Dumbeldore is *not* dead
You all should take a minute to see how the “killing curse” is spelled in the first 5 novels and then compare that to the spelling of the curse that Snape used on Dumbledore. You might find something intersting.
Jim “Spoon” Henry
Hi Jim,
I hope you’re wrong about Snape, but I have an eerie feeling about Dumbledore. I haven’t checked the spelling as you describe, but the “Abracadabra” curse seems like it should kill without dropping victim, Out of Sight of everyone, to their death.
The pictures of the Potter-verse seem more like trapped ghosts than just moving paintings, that may be the key clue that Dumbledore is actually still alive, or the key way he continues to help and mentor Harry…
Say has anybody thought that Dumbledore might have been killed off since Richard Harris died? I know that Harris was replaced, but it is not the same.
I have read all the books as an adult and so has my wife and we love them. I’ve bought all of the older books for a dollar or two used and then buy the new ones on deal. They don’t take very long to readm so time shouldn’t really be an issue.
“You all should take a minute to see how the “killing curse” is spelled in the first 5 novels and then compare that to the spelling of the curse that Snape used on Dumbledore. You might find something intersting.”
I just compared it to the climactic death scene in The Goblet of Fire, and it looks the same to me. Where exactly did you spot the discrepancy?
Say has anybody thought that Dumbledore might have been killed off since Richard Harris died? I know that Harris was replaced, but it is not the same.
Eh. I kinda doubt it. I have enough faith in Rowling to think that she’s not being unduly influenced by the movies when it comes to writing her books.
Which is not to say that I wouldn’t be amused should Rowling write into Book 7 a crucial scene between Gilderoy Lockhart and Professor Trelawney, to see whether or not Kenneth Branagh and Emma Thompson would actually share screen time again…
Dumbledore is dead….that would be a terrible cheat, to put us all through that in Book 6, and have him turn up alive. And Sirius is alive, and all is peachy! No, Rowling hasn’t done that to us yet, and she won’t. I hope.
My Snape theory: after Dumbledore’s injury, and prejudiced as he is against Potter, Snape decides that he himself is the only one who can defeat Voldemort, and to do that he must get the Dark Lord’s confidence by killing Dumbledore. It’s part heroic, part getting glory for himself, and it will backfire. Although Rowling will probably write it better than that.
Why has no one else guessed why Harry was so nasty in Book 5? It is because he was in Voldemort’s head, and vice-versa. Besides being 15, Harry was also getting some of Voldemort’s own emotions, and that spilled over into sullenness. Very simple.
I tend to think Book 7 will feature many things, including final battles, like Lupin taking on Fenrir Greyback, Hagrid and Grawp battling a giant or two, and a general showdown between the Order and the Death Eaters, finishing the battle joined twice already. And of course, after destroying (with Ron and Hermione’s help) the other horcruxes, Harry must battle…Voldemort. At Hogwarts, the “home” of them both. Voldy will come in and try to take the school for himself, turning it into a haven for dark arts.
But I’m sure Ms. Rowling has in mind something that will be even better. I haven’t yet been disappointed.
I said:
“You all should take a minute to see how the “killing curse” is spelled in the first 5 novels and then compare that to the spelling of the curse that Snape used on Dumbledore. You might find something intersting.”
Posted by: David_cgc at August 13, 2005 09:06 PM said:
I just compared it to the climactic death scene in The Goblet of Fire, and it looks the same to me. Where exactly did you spot the discrepancy?
I reply:
Ooops. I believe I may have to retract my “discovery.” I had a summary of the first 4 novels with me after I finished the HBP prince and looked at it. Apparently the summary/analysis I was using had it spelled wrong. I really should have gone to the source material. Summary/analysis had the curse spelled
“Avada Kadavra”. Thus, when I compared the spelling with Avade Kedavra (in the HPP)I thought there was a clue/discrepency.
I should reallly make sure I double check my source material before I post my big mouth.
Jim
I said:
“You all should take a minute to see how the “killing curse” is spelled in the first 5 novels and then compare that to the spelling of the curse that Snape used on Dumbledore. You might find something intersting.”
Posted by: David_cgc at August 13, 2005 09:06 PM said:
I just compared it to the climactic death scene in The Goblet of Fire, and it looks the same to me. Where exactly did you spot the discrepancy?
I reply:
Ooops. I believe I may have to retract my “discovery.” I had a summary of the first 4 novels with me after I finished the HBP prince and looked at it. Apparently the summary/analysis I was using had it spelled wrong. I really should have gone to the source material. Summary/analysis had the curse spelled
“Avada Kadavra”. Thus, when I compared the spelling with Avade Kedavra (in the HPP)I thought there was a clue/discrepency.
I should reallly make sure I double check my source material before I post my big mouth.
Jim
I said:
“You all should take a minute to see how the “killing curse” is spelled in the first 5 novels and then compare that to the spelling of the curse that Snape used on Dumbledore. You might find something intersting.”
Posted by: David_cgc at August 13, 2005 09:06 PM said:
I just compared it to the climactic death scene in The Goblet of Fire, and it looks the same to me. Where exactly did you spot the discrepancy?
I reply:
Ooops. I believe I may have to retract my “discovery.” I had a summary of the first 4 novels with me after I finished the HBP prince and looked at it. Apparently the summary/analysis I was using had it spelled wrong. I really should have gone to the source material. Summary/analysis had the curse spelled
“Avada Kadavra”. Thus, when I compared the spelling with Avade Kedavra (in the HPP)I thought there was a clue/discrepency.
I should reallly make sure I double check my source material before I post my big mouth.
Jim
Note to the guy who hadn’t read the fifth book:
I’m pretty sure that the fifth book was where there was a scene where Harry got to see his parents at Hogwarts – including some interaction between them and Severus. And what I recall was that James was one of the “cool” kids, and Severus was his favorite target to make fun of and play practical jokes on.
Since reading that scene, I have hoped that Harry would get it through his head that Snape’s dislike of James was based on something real, something that his father was responsible for, in a way. A scene where Harry actively wanted to set things right with Snape would be powerful.
Of course, for that matter, I’ve hoped for some sort of transformation for Draco; which the sixth book seems to lay some groundwork for.
RD Francis
Dumbledore is only “mostly dead.” He’s blaving, as in, ‘to blave.’
“Why has no one else guessed why Harry was so nasty in Book 5?”
Umm… There really wasn’t any guessing to it. It’s so blatantly obvious that most people don’t bother mentioning it any more. Of course, I seemed to be one of the few at the time that thought it was actually a rather good portrayal of 15 year old angst. *shrug*
-Rex Hondo-