Our local school district is having serious problems: A pathetic voter turnout of barely 25% (among other things) resulted in the school budget being voted down. By state law, the school board has to implement an austerity budget which calls for the discontinuation of extracurricular activities including all sports, music, theater, art…everything, really.
So local groups have been cropping up that are attempting to develop fund-raising activities to cover the difference. Well, tonight a meeting had been called at the local high school of a group that was seeking to raise money specifically to cover music, theater and art. Kath had gone to previous meetings dedicated to saving sports, and I was hoping she would go to this one as well. But she didn’t feel up to it and so, against my better judgment, I went.
Well, with key members of the school board as well as local politicians up on the stage, and a fairly decent turn-out of parents, there was lots of talk about things parents could do to raise money, and students could do to raise money, and more things parents could do and more things students could do, and how absolutely everyone had to pull together for the kids.
Then they started taking questions.
Ten, fifteen, maybe twenty questions are asked in relative silence as the people on the stage fielded them.
And then I raised my hand. And they brought the mike to me, and I said, “I can’t help but think that what we’ve basically got here is a business that’s in trouble. A business that we–the consumers–are being asked to help shore up. And what occurs to me is that in the corporate world, on some occasions when a business is in trouble, the management–which is you–approaches the various unions in their employ and ask them to pitch in to see them through difficult economic times. Everyone contributes to the greater good. So what I’m wondering is–following that business model–has anyone here approached any of the unions and asked for roll backs or give backs in the spirit of everyone pitching to help the students?”
And suddenly the place was alive with thunderous applause and shouts of “Yes! Yeah!” And the organizing guy starts telling me why this is a terrible idea, and the superintendent of schools is telling me why this is a terrible idea, and the head of the local teachers union, HE’S explaining why it’s a terrible idea…
Understand, I think teachers are underpaid. When one of my kids was in kindergarten, I came in to lecture about making comics. After 40 minutes I felt like I’d been running a marathon, and when I staggered home, I was convinced that however much they were paying teachers, it wasn’t enough.
Nevertheless, from a business-model point of view, it seemed a reasonable question. Instead it touched off a small shitstorm of hostility from the parents and defensiveness from the school people.
So when I got home, I said to Kath, “From now on, YOU go to these kinds of meetings. At least YOU don’t nearly start riots.”
PAD
• 
Bill,
We belong to a local homeschooling support group that keeps us informed of programs, field trips, support, advice, opportunities, etc. In addtion, our next door neighbors also homeschool their four children. (You can see why half the kids in the neighborhood are homeschooled!)We also enroll our kids in local sports and extracurricular activities. (My daughter is just finishing up a drama camp this week.) Once we also took part in a homeschooling co-op that offered noncore classes, like creative writing, drama, public speaking, etc.
There are opportunities for profit, if you dig a little. I attend at least one convention a yearm and I can tell you that the homeschool community is exploding in terms of numbers. As a science teacher, your services may be very marketable to this group. Especially in the later grades, parents don’t always feel comfortable teaching advanced science subjects to their kids. Three things I would recommend off the top of my head –
1) Contact as many local support groups you can find and ask them. You might want to consider offering workshops for the kids. As a precursor, you could come in and do a presentation/ demonstration during one of their regularly scheduled meetings. No pay, but if they like what they see, some doors may open.
2) Pursue any homeschooling co-ops in your area. (Any support groups should be able to put you in touch with them.) They are always looking for qualified teachers to run their classes.
3) You may want to check out curriculum fairs and homeschooling conventions in your area. If you have a service or educational materials to sell, there may be opportunities there for you to exploit.
All the best!
A couple of “Amens” to these ideas proposed above:
— Secretarial support for teachers as well as administrators. Should I prepare exciting lessons and edit student writing, or catch up on the paperwork? The poor bášŧárdš I feel sorry for are the Special Ed teachers: every year they’re given more and more forms and documentation (persistent lobbying by parents of special needs students, and legislators who never saw a special ed law they didn’t like). And while we’re at it, do you think I could have a phone at my desk for calling parents, instead of 20 teachers waiting to use one of the phones in the office?
— We have the same problem with HS seniors avoiding a “tough” class in order to keep their GPA up. Graduation was a travesty– the two hardest working students had to share salutatorian honors, while three students who’d deliberately dropped the same classes were allowed to “share” valedictorian status. Gaming the system.
— Amen to creating/designing your own worksheets. I do the same; the ones that come with the textbooks are horrid.
Bill Mulligan wrote:
> Yeah, teachers are underpaid. So are cops,
> firemen and sanitation workers. Nobody holds a
> gun to your head and makes you pick a career.
Unless you were drafted, of course.
Anyway, some months ago the St. Louis Post-Dispatch ran an “expose’ of bad government” article about how firefighters in some suburban and exurban fire protection districts west of the City are receiving six-figure salaries, and how wasteful this is compared to the starting salary in the St. Louis Fire Department of $31,900 per year.
To me, what’s wrong is not that some outstate firefighters are making a hundred or so grand a year (good for them!), but that St. Louis firefighters start at a miniscule thirty-one-nine.
A couple of years ago we lost two St. Louis firefighters in a refrigerator-factory fire. The first got separated from his brothers, his tank ran out of air, and he collapsed. The second died trying to make pickup on him, his desperate radio calls for help obscured by other radio traffic on the too few channels available to the Fire Department.
The thousands of mourners at the public service at Kiel/Savvis Auditorium and the posthumous promotions to Captain they received don’t make up, will never make up, for the loss to their families and our community.
No matter how much these men and women get paid, it’s never enough.
The Star Wolf missed the rest of Bobb’s quote, which pointed out that the problem wasn’t technical jargon, but pretty common every day words:
“And the instructor is very good as telling us that it’s not “dumbing down” our writing…but that’s exactly what it is. It’s an admission that the common American citizen lacks the reading comprehension to easily comprehend words like utilize, initiate, and promulgate.”
Both are correct. There are too many functionally illiterate people out there [thank the dieties the movement to have teachers use Ebonics in class died a richly deserved death in California], but at the same time, there are too many people who have lost – if they ever had it – the ability to communicate effectively with anyone but a small cadre of peers.
Still, it could be worse.
‘Red’ China [I can’t speak for Taiwan] and Japan have lists of hundreds of ‘official’ characters which are considered a must to know if one is to be considered really literate. According to a Chinese friend, the former has been working to abolish some of the more complex characters from the list in order to make it easier for people to qualify as ‘literate’. Sad, really.
Now who is twisting words? No where did I state anything about cutting teacher’s salaries or benefits. My problem is with the monies that the unions receive. Why not use some of the dues money to actually help the schools immediate concerns and not worry just about the lobby industry that unions support?
You have no idea what you are talking about. It is illegal for unions to use due money for political contributions. At least in Jersey, I have no idea if that is a federal law. All our political work is done through a seperate fund where members voluntarily contribution, too. I can’t speak for what other unions do, but our union does not use any dues money for any political action.
In fact, we also give a scholarship to our member’s kids…and not a dime of that money comes from dues to, we work yearround to get contributions from local businesses.
At the union I work for, we’ve use dues money to set up professional development programs, including a educational resource center where teachers can access resources or put together bulletin boards for just the cost of the material.
PAD never said have the unions use more of their money to help the district, he said they should do rollbacks and cutbacks. Both those things directly effect school staff (our district, we represent teachers, aides, and clerks), and it’s something that any intelligent union would be unlikely to just discuss off the cuff.
We have the same problem with HS seniors avoiding a “tough” class in order to keep their GPA up. Graduation was a travesty– the two hardest working students had to share salutatorian honors, while three students who’d deliberately dropped the same classes were allowed to “share” valedictorian status. Gaming the system.
This isn’t quite the same example, but that sort of motivation has been around for quite some time. I graduated HS in ’86 (a public school, graduating class of about 450 kids), and some of the “battle” for valedictorian status got a little weird.
One classmate of mine had a father who was chair of the history department and who taught the AP US History course. Funny how virtually everyone who took that class who might have been perceived as a competitor for valedictorian got something other than an A. (The son was a great kid; the dad was a terrible, terrible teacher.)
Another classmate of mine threw out her back late sophomore year, with the result that she didn’t take PE the last two years of HS. Since PE grades were figured into the GPA at the time (and may still be, I don’t know), removing that (non-honors, non-AP) course from her load had the effect of raising her weighted GPA significantly, and she in fact wound up as valedictorian. Nobody ever accused her of injuring herself deliberately, but she was so ultra-competitive about it (starting from about week 2 of freshman year) that some people always wondered.
Interesting times, high school.
TWL
Tim Butler,
Thank you very much for the tips…I’m toying with an idea for a book this year on using technology to allow kids to explore their creativity and if I do it I’ll want some input from homeschoolers as well as traditional teachers.
Tim Lynch,
I see that some schools are eliminating the entire valedictorian concept entirely because of abuses like that. A shame, really.
Disclosure: I am a Catholic school teacher, although not a Catholic (our counselor is Jewish, which is simply terrific) after being a public school teacher then college instructor for several years. I took this job, after cutbacks left me laid off of my small college position, while turning down public school jobs even though I make $5000 LESS per year (not more in this private school) because of the ungodly mess that is public education.
To respond to the original question: Not a teacher worth his or her salt, including me, hasn’t spent their own money on the classroom. Science teachers like me especially have to purchase equipment (the usual science supply shop, the local Dollar Store, for bleach and peroxide and the like) for everyday use. And the more schools cut back, the more teachers have to buy. So I don’t accept the argument that the teachers are not sacrificing. They simply can’t sacrifice enough to make up the difference.
I will never make more than $40K per year teaching, most likely. And that makes it tough to support a family. Teachers in rich suburban areas like Westchester County NY make far more. More power to them. But since schools are NOT a business, I can never make what I am worth.
After many years in education, and time spent in research pursuing a doctorate, I have a number of ideas for education reform that will never get implemented, such as smaller schools, ungraded elementary schools where students move up at their own pace, and compulsory education ending at 8th grade….but with 9th-12th grade available free of charge to anyone at any age, when they are ready to do it.
Oh, and teacher starting salaries at $35-50K depending on region, and moving up from there. The way you recruit better job candidates is to offer more money and perks, any business knows that.
Best to you all. Wish we could solve all the problems in this thread, but it won’t happen.
“Best to you all. Wish we could solve all the problems in this thread, but it won’t happen.”
Sadly true, but good ideas, like the ones you suggest, have to start somewhere. And the more people discuss this, the more chance we make a change where it will matter…congress. State and Federal governments need to be the place where we, the People, make a change by putting people in power that recognize that our youth are our literal future. And however important it is to work to fight terrorism, improve roads, go to the moon or mars, or build a $300 million bridge so 56 Alaskans don’t have to commute via boat, none of those things matters if there’s no one around in the future to use them. And by denying our children the best education we can provide them, we’re dooming our future to the struggle of global mediocrity.
well, given that something like 90% of school funding comes from state and local government, that’d probably be the most logical place to start. the advantage to that is you actually can have more of a voice in local/state decisions than in federal decision. the drawback is you have to deal with whatever wackos and idiots you might have in your state/locality. still, i think in general it is easier to deal with local wackos than national wackos…;)
i will say one thing in defense of ‘no child left behind’ (wait, hold your spears and daggers until i’m done! 🙂 ) – at least it was an attempt to do SOMETHING different. for decades our school systems have been running, generally, under a ‘business as usual – just send us more money’ approach, which was not working. i think by looking at all the various ideas that have been posted here, a lot of people have a lot of different ideas on how to fix things, but there doesn’t seem to be any obvious answers – just a lot of guesses (“i think this might work” – everything from completely privatizing schools to completely socializing them, and everything in between). yes, i think that nclb is, at best, mostly ineffective, and at worst, an unmitigated failure. mostly, i think that the reason is that it put too much accountibility at the federal review level. but at least it was SOMETHING new. and maybe the next president will come in and try throwing something different at the wall and see if it sticks. it’ll be interesting to see if either of the 2008 candidates come up with a new approach to education, other than simply “i plan to increase education funding x%”.
of course, there’s always the possibility that the failure of our schools has nothing to do with the schools themselves (or any attempts to “fix” them), but is merely a symptom of large-scale shifts in our society – but that type of thinking makes my head hurt on a friday afternoon…
-b
You know, I hate to be a pessimist but doesn’t it seem odd that with all the different approaches, all the different schools, all the different ideas, that nobody has found that “right way” to do this? And the implication becomes that maybe it doesn’t exist, that what works with one group at one time in one place may be a disaster when applied somewhere else.
Same with prisons. How many times have we heard about some great program that reduces recidivism and then you never hear about it again?
Are humans just so complex that anything that attempts to train or educate them is doomed to fail in as many cases as it succeeds? Then again, the military has been able to do a good job with much the same people.
One thing to keep in mind–our knowledge of how people learn is woeful. Our knowledge of how the brain works is better now than it has ever been but we still have a long way to go. We are attempting to reach a goal (education) with a very very weak understanding of the processes behind it. You CAN make an airplane without understanding the physics of flight…but would you want to ride in it?
“You know, I hate to be a pessimist but doesn’t it seem odd that with all the different approaches, all the different schools, all the different ideas, that nobody has found that “right way” to do this? And the implication becomes that maybe it doesn’t exist, that what works with one group at one time in one place may be a disaster when applied somewhere else.”
Hence, the drive for freedom of choice in education without being penalized by the government by being forced to fund an educational system that simply does not work for everyone.
I agree completely with what you’ve said, Bill. The next step is to develop a system that allows people to freely choose the educational alternative that’s best for them without penalty.
You’re not being a pessimist. You’re being a realist. One size fits all requires that those who have a different learning style but cannot adapt will fail.
Freedom is a beautiful thing. It doesn’t guarantee success. Nothing does. But it does maximize the opportunity of achieving it. The “right way” is to let everyone choose their “right way.”
To respond to the original question: Not a teacher worth his or her salt, including me, hasn’t spent their own money on the classroom. Science teachers like me especially have to purchase equipment (the usual science supply shop, the local Dollar Store, for bleach and peroxide and the like) for everyday use. And the more schools cut back, the more teachers have to buy. So I don’t accept the argument that the teachers are not sacrificing. They simply can’t sacrifice enough to make up the difference.
BINGO! Full disclosure time myself: while I work for a teacher’s union, my wife works as a teacher (I initially typed my teacher works as a wife…funny slip). We’ve spent a lot of money for her classroom, including simple things like books (her class has an incredible library now…I’m jealous when I walk in there), notebooks, pencils, science kits, etc. She teachers special ed, and most of the time, she can’t get teacher’s editions for all the grade levels she’s teaching.
Well, after finally making it through all of the posts here, I’m sure I may forget some thought
which I had somewhere over the course of reading through all of this the past couple of days, but ….
I’m not a teacher, don’t have kids, and went to a very good public high school, so I’m not as personally invested in this topic as many here, but there were a couple of comments I wanted to make:
I also disagree with the assessment of sports as being for the “dumb” students. In my particular graduating class, of the Top Ten (val[edictorian], sal[utarian], etc), at least five of them (plus the young man who was fourth in our class at the time of his death in a car crash) were on athletic teams, including the “val” and “sal”. (BTW, at my school, the rankings were set at the start of the senior year, with senior year performance not factored in. I remember our #10 teasing #11 about that, since #10 coasted enough during senior year that #11 would have passed him in ranking if things had been recomputed at the end.)
As far as teachers (in traditional school districts, leaving out the year-round model some are stuck with) not really getting three months off after all, but “only” four or six or eight weeks: No offense, but as one of the rest of us, the majority of Americans who get two weeks, plus a handful of odd days, off a year – I don’t really feel that sorry for you 😉 (Now, if only we could figure out how to change our society to mirror Europen countries like France, where everyone averages two months a year off ….)
Tim Butler,
what sort of standards or oversight does a homeschooler submit to to prove that their child is actually receiving a worthwhile education?
my ex and i had talked about homeschooling the kids we planned to have, so i’ve put some thought into this. i went through so many things in public school that i would never want my child to go through. but, on the other hand, these hardships ultimately helped me to become a much stronger person.
now, i’m not saying that kids need to go through hëll as a character building experience, but learning to get along with your age group, all of them, not just the ones as bright as you, is a very valuable skill.
What do I do on my **weeks of “summer vacation?”
I spend a couple recovering from the school year (if you’ve never done it, you don’t know how physically taxing it is to teach…teaching college was much easier) and reacquainting myself with my wife and kids….and then work to make some of the money I miss out on by teaching rather than doing something lucrative. In between, I work on preparing lessons for any new classes I will have to teach that I haven’t taught before, and trying to fix the things in the classes I am teaching again so that I might be able to do it better.
One year, when we had a lot of snow days, some of the public started griping that teachers were getting paid form NOT working a number of days. I had a simple response: that’s fine, install a time clock at the school and I will clock in and out. But, I will no longer be taking work home, I will be doing it all at the school, and you WILL be paying me overtime.
That would end the timeclock thing very quickly.
Speaking as someone whose mother has been working in an administrative capacity for educational systems for 15 years or so, and whose mother-in-law has been a 4th grade teacher for 35 years, I gotta say, asking ANY schoolboard employee to take a paycut is a bad idea. With the exception of janitorial and maintenance staff (who get paid way less anyway), everyone working at a school is already spending their own money when they can where things are lacking. My mother-in-law spent a LOT of her OWN money every year to make sure all of her students had the supplies and materials they needed, because many of them couldn’t afford it. So you’re asking people who are already way underpaid, and who already spend a lot of their own income on their students, to take a pay-cut. That don’t fly. And don’t forget, most teachers have kids of their own to send through school.
I do like the idea of politicians taking a massive pay-cut, but that’s borderline revolution talk.
“what sort of standards or oversight does a homeschooler submit to to prove that their child is actually receiving a worthwhile education?”
It varies from state to state. In my state, which is one of the easiest in the nation in which to homeschool a child, there are no requirements. None. The parents have the absolute right to homeschool their children without any accountability or reporting responsibilities to the state.
“my ex and i had talked about homeschooling the kids we planned to have, so i’ve put some thought into this. i went through so many things in public school that i would never want my child to go through. but, on the other hand, these hardships ultimately helped me to become a much stronger person.
“now, i’m not saying that kids need to go through hëll as a character building experience, but learning to get along with your age group, all of them, not just the ones as bright as you, is a very valuable skill.”
And homeschooling would preclude this…… because?
Believe me, my kids get a lot of experience dealing with difficult age mates. Mainly, from schooled children who are well versed in the herd mentality of their educational environment and don’t know how to relate to other kids unless they can gather as a group, identify the most vulnerable member, and spend a great afternoon scapegoating, taunting, and tormenting that person for fun. Believe me, I know of what I speak. My 5 year old is developmentally delayed and has some special needs. Right now, we’re going through a difficult time of it because he (in his own words spoken to me the other night) “loves everyone.” Unfortunately, this sentiment is not shared by the majority of the schooled kids in the neighborhood who have a made a hobby out of yelling at him, teasing him, and hitting him with various objects and then coming to complain to my wife and I when our son finally loses control and lashes back. “Christopher’s hitting us!” they complain. They don’t add that Christopher finally lost control after trying to get along with 5 kids who didn’t want to do anything but yell at him, tease him, and hit him.
That what you’re looking for? I’m not. And I don’t intend to thank those kids or their parents for making my son “strong.” I think that stinks and it’s exactly the type of “socialization” that I want to avoid. Right now, I’m soooo looking forward to when school starts so that I don’t have to spend all my time waiting for opportunities to interfere with my son’s “socialization.”
If it’s what you want, go for it. I don’t think the “socialization” of the schools is worth anything, since I have yet to find a social setting in real life that even remotely resembles school. But I’ll tell you what I told my sister-in-law when she made the same argument that you did – don’t complain when your kid is being tormented or teased or put upon or ridiculed or even beat up by the other kids at school. It’s not bullying. It’s socialization. Write a thank you card to the school instead.
(Sorry for the rant. But I’m sick of the type of socialization that you’re referring to. It’s disgusting that any kid should have to deal with it.)
To bring this more to the point that you raise, the homeschooling community is very diverse, and it offers the children involved many opportunities to interact with just as many different kind of kids as those who are schooled. More over, homeschooled kids interact with the world outside the classroom on a daily basis, which also affords rich opportunities to meet and interact with all kinds of people.
Maybe the neighborhood kids treat your son that way BECAUSE he is home-schooled, which in their minds makes him weird, different, and not one of them? Not excusing their actions, just rationalizing.
I’m sure they rationalize their actions along those line. Does that make it all ok? Let me just skip all the preliminary discussions and jump right to the end: Nazi Germany had all kinds of rationalizations for commiting close to 10 million murders over the course of 6 years. And would still be today if some good-hearted folks weren’t willing to risk everything to show them that just because you can make up an excuse to do something, doesn’t change whether that act is the right thing to do or not.
Or maybe it’s ok to abuse something or someone just because they’re different from you. Someone help me out here, what’s that called, when you treat someone different than you in a way that makes them feel like you hate them, or consider yourself to be better than they are?
Someone help me out here, what’s that called, when you treat someone different than you in a way that makes them feel like you hate them, or consider yourself to be better than they are?
Republicans?
😉
Craig,
Nice post above. A nice intro. The smiley was a nice touch:)
Bill Mulligan,
Very nice points on this thread. But I just had to respond to these statements:
“There is no point in moaning about the fact that football is more popular than quiz bowl. It just is. Nothing will change that.”
First, I can’t buy into this kind of complacency. Nothing is a given. At the turn of the last century, football couldn’t even touch baseball in popularity. Things change.
And is quiz bowl that important? This is what is wrong with the educational mindset in this country today. It is mainly about memorizing facts, figures and dates and names. The emphasis is not on the skills an average student is going to need. Or even a detailed history of this country, or even the 20th century. This is why many kids feel what they are learning is not relevant to their lives, and in many cases, they’re right.
“I could give you several theories why – for one thing we are hard wired to enjoy violence and will choose our entertainment accordingly. Give the kids on the Quiz Bowl team barbed wire bats and watch the rating skyrocket.”
See, I find this kind of thinking elitist, stereotypical, simplistic, grossly unfair and untrue.
First, football is not that violent. Second, events like it do help instill concepts of teamwork and discipline and competitiveness. While there are “dumb jocks”, there are also many bright ones and many kids who have no motivation and will not become engaged in either the social or academic aspects of school.
If a school’s football program is eliminated and the money “saved” goes to hiring a new Administrator or is used as an excuse to keep property taxes low or cut them, what do you do then?
More people also go to theater productions than debate competitions. Is art not important?
And we don’t have to worry about giving kids barbed wire bats for entertainment because kids are already using them out on the streets.
Because nobody is teaching them how to read.
Because adults are too busy pointing fingers at each other instead of doing some heavy lifting and making schools more effective.
“Also, it’s basic envy. You can’t get too upset over the fact that someone is better at basketball than you because it is a simple matter of genetics – not everyone can be 7 feet tall.”
Poppycock. It is not a simple matter of genetics. If it were, the coach would just take the five tallest players and play them. Each player – even superstars like Kobe Bryant – is expected to excel in a certain area. When I was in high school, our team’s starting point guard was shorter than me. And I’m 5’7. And he beat out our star baseball player. And we made the playoffs.
It’s called determination. To chalk it up to genetics is as offensive to me as if you said there was no chance on me doing better in Asians in academics because of genetics or that I have a “natural advantage” over blacks in academics because of genetics.
“But people like to believe that the only reason that someone is smarter than they are is because they waste time reading or have no social life.”
And people also like to believe that the only reason jock types are popular and get laid is because of their biceps when in actuality their
confidence, strong personality and willingness to be social actually play a huge role.
“Sure, it sucks to be the smart kid who gets no attention in high school.”
Sure, but a lot of the time these kids CHOOSE to be loners or look down on those they deem not to be as smart as them. And it also sucks to be the kid who is though of as weird because he’s rather practice 3-pointers than go to the movies.
“Part of my job as a teacher is to point out to the smart kids just how temporary and unreal high school is”
I see your point, and if that motivational tool works for you, great. But isn’t all life transitory? If you don’t feel it’s “real”, then why should students take it seriously?
ROBIN SAID: “I’ve already said what my standard of success for a school is: ‘Is my child showing progress?’ It’s subjective, but I think it’s a subjective measurement that parents who take an active role in their children’s lives are qualified to make.”
TIM LYNCH RESPONDED: “and the parents who don’t take such a role? What’s to stop them from picking a school based on how close it is to a baseball stadium, or the nearest strip club.”
So the parents who who do take such a role should suffer for those who never will? Sorry. They do deserve a choice. Even if it’s from two or three public schools. As for those who would pick their child’s school based on the reasons you suggest:
A.) How is it any worse than trapping kids who can’t afford better/private schools into a bad public school?
B.) How is their decision and what they base it on really any of your business? Your cited example is silly.
Nice post above. A nice intro. The smiley was a nice touch:)
Well, it was set up so wonderfully, that I just couldn’t pass it up. 🙂
First, football is not that violent.
I know a judge you should tell that to.
(Not a problem for me personally, just something I read today regarding an assault charge against a football player.)
“Maybe the neighborhood kids treat your son that way BECAUSE he is home-schooled, which in their minds makes him weird, different, and not one of them? Not excusing their actions, just rationalizing.”
I wish I could understand what the purpose of your post is, because it clearly escapes me. The implication seems to be that enrolling my son in school would help him to be more accepted by the neighborhood kids. Pardon me, but that idea is so obviously false that I have to consider your comments somewhat……. lacking…. in thoughtfulness. (And that’s putting it as diplomatically as I can.)
If that were the case, they (school kids) would treat each other with love and respect. Of course, that’s generally not the case. In the immortal words of Jean Shepherd, “You were either a bully, a toadie, or one of the nameless rabble of victims.” The way my son is being treated is not extraordinary or even unusual. Unfortunately, it’s the standard. I remember one period of my life in second grade. We were all sitting around a big table. Probably about 10 of us. One of the girls at the table was the popular, smart, beautiful kid. Every day, she picked out the victim for that day. The one kid that everyone else at the table would torment and ridicule. Did I rise up and condemn this injustice? Or even tell the teacher? No, I just remember the incredible feeling of relief I felt when I escaped being the “victim of the day.” Did I join in on the torment? I don’t specifically recall joining in, but I would bet money that I did. I was part of the herd as much as anyone else.
“Someone help me out here, what’s that called, when you treat someone different than you in a way that makes them feel like you hate them, or consider yourself to be better than they are?”
“Republicans?”
In this case, the parents of my son’s tormenters had John Kerry signs throughout their yard last November. These days, they’re sporting such bumper stickers as “Buck Fush” (great example for the kids) and “W is For War”.
So, I actually consider this bad treatment to be Christopher’s introduction to modern liberalism.
😉 right back at you.
Jerome,
Now we can lay off the other posters and argue with each other 🙂
And is quiz bowl that important?
No, not really, I was just looking for a competitive event that relied on reading.
First, football is not that violent. Second, events like it do help instill concepts of teamwork and discipline and competitiveness. While there are “dumb jocks”, there are also many bright ones and many kids who have no motivation and will not become engaged in either the social or academic aspects of school.
I think I made that point above somewhere. And by violent I don’t mean that in the thuggish sense. There is nothing inherently wrong with violence, under certain circumstances. Maybe I’m making up my own definition of violence–how does “physical action” sound.
If a school’s football program is eliminated and the money “saved” goes to hiring a new Administrator or is used as an excuse to keep property taxes low or cut them, what do you do then?
I would never advocate eliminating football. Motivates way too many kids.
Poppycock. It is not a simple matter of genetics.
No entirely but to a greater degree than you give it credit. Even a short good basketball player is born with certain traits that give them an advantage. That’s why those dads who train and push their kids from birth to be the next great sports star are often disappointed. Similarly, exposing your kid to art will not make them the next Rembrandt, unless they have it in them.
I’ll post more later, gotta run
Ok, a little bit on football, and what makes a school great…
I was lucky. I went to what I later found to have been one of the best high schools in the country, at that time. Our high school was not one-dimensional, but had talent, and developed talent in many different areas, not all of them academic.
First, there is football. Our team was second in the state, lost in a 6-0 battle in the championship to the team that was later rated as the best in the country. BTW, very few of the team went on to become college all stars. It wasn’t because we had great players, we had a great TEAM that year. Our coaches taught that way…
Next, there was band. Our school had a jazz band that was hot. They went to competitions in Europe, as well as in the states. They were considered one of the top five jazz bands in America. Note I said jazz bands, not high school jazz bands! Many of them DID become professional musicians. Christian music fans may recognize Degarmo and Key, who started in that band.
Same in Quiz’em on the Air, ROTC, basketball, science competitions, the lot. We were not always the very best in a competition, but we were in the top layer in everything.
Was our school perfect? No! For one thing, we had a major drug problem, although our senior year it was better. Of course, one of the problems was that our students didn’t sell, they PRODUCED the drugs. Also, Race was a big issue. We had two different race riots my senior year.
However, what stopped that second race riot from becoming bigger is a good example of what our school did right. My Advanced Math class was just after lunch, when the student body was reeling from a racially motivated assault on the senior class president. The teacher, who happend to be black, sat us down and discussed what had happened openly, and frankly. He calmed us down, and through us, calmed the school down. Who was in this class? Captains of both squads of the football team, the captain of the basketball team, three cheerleaders, the heads of the ROTC, Band, and even the head of the nerds… (me…)
Or course, this was in the dark ages (1974) when a trip to the principles office meant an acquaintance with a wooden paddle. But we did good work, and we worked hard.
Or course, the year after I graduated, they ‘integrated’ the school, shipped a whole lot of new students of various races and motivations in. The principle, vice principle, football coaching staff and band staff, and half the teachers all moved to a different school in the non-bussed county, and the whole thing fell apart. Of course, that county school was in the same high achievement situation two years later…
CharlieE
Jerome,
Here’s the quote I knew I’d written somewhere:
(in reply to the statement:)
as for school funding, forget sports imo.
I’m going to have to disagree here as well. I know it is popular for us to bash the athletic department but the truth is that a lot of my kids would not be there if it were not for sports. That’s a dumb reason to go to school but kids are, to various degrees, dumb. I’ve used sports to get better effort and behavior from my kids as well–telling Coach Pegram that Tyrone Firefly is acting up in class will often solve the problem–something involving repeated laps around the football field. They can’t play if they fail classes so there are some who give an extra effort right there. And there is a level of discipline that sports gives them that can be used in all aspects of life.
Also, it is the one thing that gets parents involved. Is that right? No but welcome to Reality 101. Prerequisite: life.
Now there are schools where sports is the only thing and obviously the tail is wagging the dog there.
So I think it’s obvious that I have no problem with sports in school.
“Part of my job as a teacher is to point out to the smart kids just how temporary and unreal high school is”
I see your point, and if that motivational tool works for you, great. But isn’t all life transitory? If you don’t feel it’s “real”, then why should students take it seriously?
There are two kinds of kids I feel really bad for–the ones for whom high school is the worst time of their life and the ones for whom it is the best time of their life.
High school shoulb be a great time, a time to fall in love for the first time, have your heart broken for the first time, learn how to deal with it for the first time, etc. If all that is overwhelmed by outside stuff (and some of these kids are dealing with things that would make you weep), well, that’s unspeakably sad.
But man, if High School were the BEST time of my life, how awful would that be? High school isn’t “real life” in the sense of it’s not at all the way the rest of life works. We all know people who go on living their adult life as though they are still in high school. They are generally to be pitied.