Yes, you all know who he is. I will now respond to the two questions he’s been howlingly repeating because, y’know…why not? And the rub of it is, he probably won’t understand either answer.
Response number one: The fact that I have not disagreed with his assessment of my veracity is not an indicator that what he says has worth. Rather, it’s an indicator of my belief that his opinion of me is, in fact, worthless.
Response number two: He has demanded to know how any of our individual lives are hurt or worsened because of the actions of George W. Bush…a man who needlessly launched a war that’s resulted in the deaths of 1600+ Americans and thousands upon thousands of innocent Iraqis. The answer is quite simple:
“No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of they friends or of thine own were; any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”
–John Donne
And thus am I Donne with the clod.
PAD
• 
Unless I’m mistaken, the “we” that executed Nazi war criminals was a world court. Not a US court.
Actually, you’re mostly mistaken. The Nuremberg court was set up as a raw exercise of power by the winning nations after World War II. As the surrender of Germany placed the political power over Germany in the hands of the victors, they became the de facto (and come to think of it, de jure) government of Germany, and as such had the authority to prosecute criminal actions. The court was authorized by no international organization, because none such existed prior to the United Nations being organized in 1945. Robert Jackson said, “if certain acts and violations of treaties are crimes, they are crimes whether the United States does them or whether Germany does them,” but that was patently untrue if you take the position that the Nuremberg trials were an exercise of an international criminal court. If you take the (factually correct) viewpoint that the Nuremberg trials were an exercise of judicial power by the occupying authorities in Germany, then Jackson’s statement might well have been true, but good luck finding someone to prosecute the Allies (a distinction probably not lost on Jackson). The prosecution had little to do with international law, and a lot to do with the fact that the Allies had possession of the largest collection of mass murderers in the history of the world, and couldn’t just shoot them without some form of procedure.
Jerry,
It might take a leader who is able to articulate the issues and inspire people on both sides of the political fence. Obviously GW is not that man but in fairness, I’m not sure anyone else is either. Hillary Clinton has a chance because she could very well end up being a real hawk on foreign policy and many (though not all) liberals will follow her lead because they trust her.
I think we are probably very much onthe same page here, despite our many differences. I’ve enjoyed our exchanges–something that may baffle a few of the other posters who only get pleasure from having their own little perception of the world validated, even if they have to resort to pretzel logic to do it.
Get some sleep, friend.
Bill,
Same.
Later.
Night.
How many people posted in this thread?
I won’t take the time to check, but I’d be willing to bet that a review by the blog master would show that 2 or 3 people posted under multiple names.
So many of the attacking posts read as if the same person authored them. Marching in lockstep, as it were.
Yes, lockstep! Defined as anyone who doesn’t agree with YOU.
Original Peter David post that started this thread, the most interesting thread on this site ever:
———
My two and only two responses to the new village idiot
Yes, you all know who he is. I will now respond to the two questions he’s been howlingly repeating because, y’know…why not? And the rub of it is, he probably won’t understand either answer.
Response number one: The fact that I have not disagreed with his assessment of my veracity is not an indicator that what he says has worth. Rather, it’s an indicator of my belief that his opinion of me is, in fact, worthless.
Response number two: He has demanded to know how any of our individual lives are hurt or worsened because of the actions of George W. Bush…a man who needlessly launched a war that’s resulted in the deaths of 1600+ Americans and thousands upon thousands of innocent Iraqis. The answer is quite simple:
“No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of they friends or of thine own were; any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”
–John Donne
And thus am I Donne with the clod.
PAD
Posted by Peter David at 09:19 PM
Im just posting an article of Terry Jones (from Monty Phyton) commenting about irak….
I’m losing patience with my neighbours, Mr Bush
Terry Jones
Sunday January 26, 2003
Observer
I’m really excited by George Bush’s latest reason for bombing Iraq: he’s running out of patience. And so am I!
For some time now I’ve been really pìššëd øff with Mr Johnson, who lives a couple of doors down the street. Well, him and Mr Patel, who runs the health food shop. They both give me queer looks, and I’m sure Mr Johnson is planning something nasty for me, but so far I haven’t been able to discover what. I’ve been round to his place a few times to see what he’s up to, but he’s got everything well hidden. That’s how devious he is.
As for Mr Patel, don’t ask me how I know, I just know – from very good sources – that he is, in reality, a Mass Murderer. I have leafleted the street telling them that if we don’t act first, he’ll pick us off one by one.
Some of my neighbours say, if I’ve got proof, why don’t I go to the police? But that’s simply ridiculous. The police will say that they need evidence of a crime with which to charge my neighbours.
They’ll come up with endless red tape and quibbling about the rights and wrongs of a pre-emptive strike and all the while Mr Johnson will be finalising his plans to do terrible things to me, while Mr Patel will be secretly murdering people. Since I’m the only one in the street with a decent range of automatic firearms, I reckon it’s up to me to keep the peace. But until recently that’s been a little difficult. Now, however, George W. Bush has made it clear that all I need to do is run out of patience, and then I can wade in and do whatever I want!
And let’s face it, Mr Bush’s carefully thought-out policy towards Iraq is the only way to bring about international peace and security. The one certain way to stop Muslim fundamentalist suicide bombers targeting the US or the UK is to bomb a few Muslim countries that have never threatened us.
That’s why I want to blow up Mr Johnson’s garage and kill his wife and children. Strike first! That’ll teach him a lesson. Then he’ll leave us in peace and stop peering at me in that totally unacceptable way.
Mr Bush makes it clear that all he needs to know before bombing Iraq is that Saddam is a really nasty man and that he has weapons of mass destruction – even if no one can find them. I’m certain I’ve just as much justification for killing Mr Johnson’s wife and children as Mr Bush has for bombing Iraq.
Mr Bush’s long-term aim is to make the world a safer place by eliminating ‘rogue states’ and ‘terrorism’. It’s such a clever long-term aim because how can you ever know when you’ve achieved it? How will Mr Bush know when he’s wiped out all terrorists? When every single terrorist is dead? But then a terrorist is only a terrorist once he’s committed an act of terror. What about would-be terrorists? These are the ones you really want to eliminate, since most of the known terrorists, being suicide bombers, have already eliminated themselves.
Perhaps Mr Bush needs to wipe out everyone who could possibly be a future terrorist? Maybe he can’t be sure he’s achieved his objective until every Muslim fundamentalist is dead? But then some moderate Muslims might convert to fundamentalism. Maybe the only really safe thing to do would be for Mr Bush to eliminate all Muslims?
It’s the same in my street. Mr Johnson and Mr Patel are just the tip of the iceberg. There are dozens of other people in the street who I don’t like and who – quite frankly – look at me in odd ways. No one will be really safe until I’ve wiped them all out.
My wife says I might be going too far but I tell her I’m simply using the same logic as the President of the United States. That shuts her up.
Like Mr Bush, I’ve run out of patience, and if that’s a good enough reason for the President, it’s good enough for me. I’m going to give the whole street two weeks – no, 10 days – to come out in the open and hand over all aliens and interplanetary hijackers, galactic outlaws and interstellar terrorist masterminds, and if they don’t hand them over nicely and say ‘Thank you’, I’m going to bomb the entire street to kingdom come.
It’s just as sane as what George W. Bush is proposing – and, in contrast to what he’s intending, my policy will destroy only one street.
Please don’t take my word for it. Take the word of someone who used to be one of your own.
This will be my last post to this thread and/or website.
To Jerry, My navy seal comment was directed toward a stupid comment Mike made about one out of 30 people who claim to be a Navy Seal are Navy Seals. If you were paying attention u might have picked up on that. However, trying to keep up with all this liberal rhetoric can be tiresome.
Whoever said my comments sound like X-Ray? Go to the head of the class. He is my best friend. You are all outmatched and will never know it.
To Peter David. Al Qaeda would be proud of your website. They really would.
To X-Ray, these people deserve each other. Leave em to their own folly.
Thanks, David. Although I think “slightly mistaken” might be a better description…or perhaps an oversimplification of the Nuremberg trials. My point was that it was not one, single nation, victor or otherwise, imposing it’s sole will and version of justice over another. It was a collection of Allies, forming a consensus of opinion over a course of action. Whether it was an official “world court” in the sense that we would think of one today or not, it remains that it was an international body acting in concert to impose justice.
I think my whole discussion with Bill stems down to this: acting unilaterally, whether out of a desire to keep your own interests safe, or to protect others that are unable to protect themselves, is certainly an act motivated by noble intentions. But you know what they say about good intentions. When the means used to achieve those goals includes a violation of sovereign power, eventually, the rest of the world will cease to see the good intentions, and only see the means used to achieve them.
Considering the 380 tons of explosives reported missing last year, George Bush is still al Qaeda’s leading contender for MVP.
It’s all the fault of the Soviet Union for collapsing… If “The Big Red Menace” hadn’t fallen, America would not be playing the world’s policeman and jamming it’s nose in where it doesn’t belong.
Human nature being what it is, one unified world government is NOT a good thing. There needs to be other, equally powerful countries out there to balance the US and make the US strive to be better. With the loss of the only other major world power (USSR), America got soft, and then realized it could use it’s might to push everyone else around, becoming the world’s bully.
Here’s hoping a few more contenders rise to America’s strength to keep our politicains honest…
“To Peter David. Al Qaeda would be proud of your website. They really would.”
And thanks to George W. Bush, they have far more recruits to read it.
PAD
And thanks to George W. Bush, they have far more recruits to read it.
PAD, you just made my morning with that gem. 🙂
“To Peter David. Al Qaeda would be proud of your website. They really would.”
Let us think on this.
America: Founded on freedoms. One Such freedom is free speech. We, as the people of this great country, can speak our mind about anything you want. Another freedom, when one sees a president who lies, an administration that overflows with moral ambiguities and a level of willingness to see the corruption of the truth unmatched in recent times, is the right to speak out against our leaders, who are actually our servants, when they abuse their powers or our trust without fear of retribution, imprisonment or death. Moreover, it’s our job as Americans to do so and stand up against the wrongs of our “leaders”
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
– Theodore Roosevelt
Al Qaeda: They, and any country that they or their friends have controled, believe in lock step thinking. You don’t question your leaders. You worship your leaders because God speaks through them. What happens if you speak up or speak out? You get picked up off the streets, you go to some Hellhole and you get tortured to death. You may find your family being harassed by the government. You may get stoned to death by your state loyal neighbors because the local cleric issued a fatwa against you on behalf of the leaders that you spoke up against.
I think, given the history of debate on this site, that the Founding Fathers would quite fancy this site. They, rabble rousers that they were, would no doubt get a kick out of it. People from all over their country debating issues about the course of the country and our freedoms without once coming to blows. This site is 100% American.
Your comments? Al Qaeda would be proud of you, X-Ray and others like you. Just shut up and learn to (worship) support Bush. Don’t question our leader. If he lies or if he abuses his powers? Oh, well. If he says go die based on his lies? Just be a good little American and do it. He’s our leader after all.
Why is it that I can see you and X-Ray as the first people in line to stone your fellow Americans to death over a Bush issued fatwa? Maybe it’s because you’re both tiny minded idiots.
“And thanks to George W. Bush, they have far more recruits to read it. PAD”
——-
Here we go again.
There is terrorism in the world , therefore BUSH SUCKS!
It is shocking to me that Peter David responds to a political statement by blaming Bush. Oh wait — no it isn’t. It’s all he EVER does.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)
See? Free speech in action from the not so distant past. Hëll, if he had put “lying” in front of moron I would swear he had a crystal ball and saw Bush’s smirking little face.
Wow, I couldn’t even get through all of these comments. I got too angry about one thing. Stem cells.
Bush banned stem cell research. That’s the truth. Sure he’s giving money to do research with already collected stem cells, but collecting anymore is illegal. It’s been banned. So giving federal money doesn’t really mean much when you’re dealing with a limited quantity of researchable cells…
And by the way, a friend of mine just came back from Iraq and being over there changed his mind about Bush. He’s not a supporter anymore and he said that he felt like they did good in spite of the current administration. Additionally I have a problem with the word “volunteer” mean joining the military for what you think is a week a year and 12 weekends of drill because you are too poor to pay for college.
Looking over the responses here, I am amazed at the number of people that feel that not disagreeing with the current administration in all areas is equal to questioning authority. It is not. Many of us have asked the questions and just did not disagree with the answers. Conservatives are considerably less of a group-think classification than liberals.
Additionally I have a problem with the word “volunteer” mean joining the military for what you think is a week a year and 12 weekends of drill because you are too poor to pay for college.
When we are talking about an all volunteer military, I am unclear of your meaning here.
Ken:
>Conservatives are considerably less of a group-think classification than liberals.
Possibly from your perspective, but I like to hear your rationale for this thinking since it seems clear that there are sheep on both sides.
“Here we go again.
There is terrorism in the world , therefore BUSH SUCKS!
It is shocking to me that Peter David responds to a political statement by blaming Bush.”
I know this is pointless…..
Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups have had an increase in recruitment in the last year plus. The cause? The U.S. invasion of Iraq and related actions.
Al Qaeda and other terrorist have used (for a short list) the war in Iraq, Bush’s statements in the world press, the statements his admin & Generals (such as describing this as a crusade and stating that “our” God can beat “their” god in this war) and the images of abuse and the tails of abuse in U.S. run prisons. And, no, it’s not the U.S. press feeding that last bit. The news centers in the Middle East have shown more images from those places then the BBC, CNN, ABC, CBS & NBC combined. They also tend to treat prisoners being released from those prisons like we treat the prize winners of Survivor. 24/7 coverage for a few days to tell all. The clerics go on their TV and speak of the duty of all good citizens to stop these invaders (us).
Everything that is swelling the ranks right now can be directly linked to Iraq, Bush and the actions he took in lying us into a war.
The sources for this information? U.S. State Department, Brit intel, Ausie intel, Isreal’s intel, the Saudi’s public statements to Bush and checking any english langauge translated version of a news site from that part of the world.
So, yeah, Bush has increased the number of idiots signing up to attack us. Point blank fact. Make too much sense for you to get it yet?
And, to the other massive idiot here, no. None of that means we deserve to be attacked. Just saving some time and typing that now.
Sorry.
“Tales,” not, “tails.” That’s what was involved with the abuse and images and not the telling of them.
So, yeah, Bush has increased the number of idiots signing up to attack us. Point blank fact.
More relevant is that another President could have undertaken the same strategy (invade Iraq) and could have done much better (IMAO) in getting results and not creating more enemies for us.
Or am I a kneejerk “librul” in making that statement?
Jerry,
If I may, do you think terrorist recruitment would’ve leveled off or dropped post-Afghan. strike?
This whole, “Bush directly drove AQ membership up” argument, to me, is a bit of a red herring. Any US-based action post 9/11 was going to drive up AQ membership to some degree. What’s worse, though, is using this kind if statistic to side-step the issue of validity in going to war in the first place. If you have a beehive in your backyard are you really going to leave it alone and hope for the best for fear that destroying it would stir up too many bees?
And, in a similar hypothetical scenario, what do you think AQ and other, similar anti-US terrorists would be up to now had Bush not gone into Iraq? Genuinely interested in your thoughts about this …
To continue with my analogy, I guess the real question is where do you want the beehive stirred. Wait to see if they get into the house and then kill ’em, or go out one night and spray the šhìŧ out it, scattering the hive to the four-winds.
“Additionally I have a problem with the word “volunteer” mean joining the military for what you think is a week a year and 12 weekends of drill because you are too poor to pay for college.”
He means people who are too stupid to read a contract and know what they are signing up for so they can get college benefits.
What do you think the word “Reserve” means???? When the military needs you, you go. If people are rolling the dice hoping this doesn’t come up, who’s fault is it when they crap out?
You’re all very good at speaking for the military.
Are any of you actually IN the military?
SJ, your analogies are still off.
Of course, you erradicate the beehive, making sure you get the queen and all potential breeders so they don’t spring up again…especially after you’ve been stung 3000 times.
Except….to make the analogy appropriate to Iraq…you find out the beehive is in your neighbors yard, and you trample all over his flowers in order to smash the hive…except then you find out it wasn’t a hive, just a jar of honey with a hive picture on it, and there’s no bees there at all…and the bees that stung you actually came from the drainage creek down the block. Where you used to be hunting for a hive, but gave up after you couldn’t find one.
Query: I heard about a news report that stated that the insurgents in Iraq are actually mostly from neighboring countries, that the Iraqi populace generally does support our presence there, but troublemakers from Iran, Syria, and others are coming across the border to hamper any potential democratic advances. Since others seem to have a solid network already for looking this stuff up, what do you know about this? Please no stories about someone’s friend who was over there and blah blah blah from either side of the debate: are there any substantiated sources out there about this?
Seemed that the analogy would be more fitting if you had a beehive somewhere in your neighborhood and, rather than track it down with any certainty, you put honeycombs in your neighbors yard….. a few days later… bees. Seems that individuals who had no interest in organizing against the U.S. previously are now in this organization. Whether it is due to a false promise of stability for them, revenge over the deaths of loved ones, etc really doesn’t relevent to the analogy. This group of terrorists has the ears of people it hadn’t had previous to the invasion of Iraq.
If you have a beehive in your backyard are you really going to leave it alone and hope for the best for fear that destroying it would stir up too many bees?
No. But if the beehive is 2 houses down, I might keep an eye on it, but I am not going to invade my neighbor’s yard as a pre-emptive strike against it.
“If I may, do you think terrorist recruitment would’ve leveled off or dropped post-Afghan. strike?”
Yes. Stats show that and show that the largest raise in recruitment for terrorist has been in the last year. Again. all the intel agancies have said the same thing as well and most , not all but most, link it directly to the Iraq invasion.
Not the fullest answer I can give cause I’m a wee pressed timwewise right now. Hope it’s enough for you. If not, I work tonight so it may be a while.
Bobb,
Perhaps my analogy didn’t take into account some of the more intricate aspects of this situation, but your analogy is purely spun from your BIAS of the situation.
Tinker your analogy somewhat and say your neighbor likes leaving his recycling bin in the front of his house, thereby attracting a mini swarm of bees from a nearby hive. Like you said, you want to erradicate the hive, but it is big and deeply routed in a large oak tree that is in a common area on the other side of your neighbors house, so you need to get close to take it out but can’t while the mini-swarm is accumulating in your path each and every day. Now, your neighbor has repeatedly refused to do anything about the recycling bin, and for some reason the HOA is loathe to do anything but send letters.
Do you strive to respect your neighbor who clearly has no respect for you, or do you take the necessary steps to make sure you can get closer to the hive to ultimate destroy the hive and help make the street a little safer?
Of course, I realize no real analogy is ever going to capture the large scale complexities of the problem. Rather, I was trying to illustrate (fail or succeed) that at the end of the day Bush did what he thought was necessary to safe-guard his neighborhood.
And that the failure or success of such an attempt can’t be judged in the short term from FOX news correspondents filling airtime or the fabricated stories in NY or LA Times, which are clearly slanted to stir up šhìŧ for the sake of hating Bush. Or from blowhard radio talkshow guys whose devisive rehetoric makes people think they have to be an either or situation, thereby killing all chances of real dialogue between the citizens of this country.
No matter what Bush said to the public I don’t believe for one second that Iraq is the endgame; it is a stagging area for a long-term solution to a problem that if left alone will eventually engulf the world. Did he go about it the wrong way? Maybe. But it happened and we have to deal with the consequences and picking at whose college scores were bigger isn’t going to solve it. Nor is just packing up and leaving, when a shell of a country is asking us to stay.
In the end, unlike previous drummed up threats, there is no “state” in which to threaten. There is no safety in mutually assured destruction and there is no frontlines to hold. On 9/11 enemies of the US tried to create a frontline in our country. It didn’t take, and to make sure it stayed that way thousands of brave men and women have spilled their blood to draw a frontline somewhere else, closer to the ultimate problem at hand.
SJ, I don’t think it’s my bias…you’re trying to say we invaded Iraq to root out a threat against the US. WMDs, terrorists, whatever jusitification you want to latch on to…and there’s still no evidence that anything more than a few, small, terrorist cells were there. No WMDs, and so far as I’ve heard, no terrorist training camps. Sure, Saddam was a horrible dictator and a killer…but that’s not the reason we went after him.
Going back to the analogy, we used the beehive/bees as a reason to trample the flowers and break the fence. And in the process, we got our bad neighbor with the refuse pile arrested. But we got the neighborhood behind us because “we were going to get those bees.” Turns out, there’s no bees, no hive. But the bad neighbor is gone, so it’s all ok we lied to our other neighbors to get their support?
What you have to realize is that Bush decided that Saddam needed taking out first and then settled on the WMD issue as the one that was considered most “saleable.” The invasion was never truly about get at the weapons of mass destruction, that was the pretext. So, we spent about year listening to hype about mushroom clouds, reports raising doubts about the existance of WMDs in Iraq were altered*, and the warnings from the inspectors (ie, the people who had actually been it Iraq) that there were no WMDs in Iraq were ignored.
You can see how quickly Bush took the focus off the WMDs once his original goal of removing Saddam was achieved. To him, it was just advertising anyway, which is why he doesn’t even mention it anymore.
So yes, we were lied to and deceived about the reason we to war and apparently, that’s okay to 51% of the US population. But, the time to debate why we invaded Iraq is over. We’re stuck in the sand for the next 10 years, minimum, and we should focus on energies is trying to get the new Iraqi leadership to a point where they can run the country themselves. Unfortunately, with all the damage Bush has done to our credibility as a country, that task has become nearly impossible.
*Side note: Isn’t interesting that this administration has one office that altered reports to remove all doubt about the existance of WMDs in Iraq and another office that altered reports in order to generate doubt about global climate change?
Now suppose that beehive two houses down hangs right over a giant oil supply… now we’re talking!
Now suppose that your father was stung by a bee once. Even more reason to head over there!
Now suppose these are highly intelligent bees working on stem cell research… well then, you better get over there immediately!
And finally the kicker… suppose these bees are engaging in same-sex marriages… forget about it! Bust out the RAID now!
I think the comment function should be turned off for THIS thread as well. End of discussion.
Stem Cell Research keeps getting brought up. I support stem cell research using new lines, at least the stuff they’re just throwing away at fertility clinics and the like, but isn’t the ban on federal funding for new stem cell-line research only? If I remember correctly, California budgeted something like $3 million (or billion; isn’t it sad I can’t keep millions and billions straight anymore)for exactly the kind of research people are saying is banned.
X-Ray: I think the comment function should be turned off for THIS thread as well. End of discussion.
FÙÇK OFF man! End your own fûçkìņg discussion! Like someone posted earlier, you get off on dominance don’t you? ‘End of discussion’… who are you? Dr. Evil? ZIP IT! Get a life dude.
Now suppose tmbgfan goes back and reads the part where I say, “Of course, I realize no real analogy is ever going to capture the large scale complexities of the problem. Rather, I was trying to illustrate (fail or succeed) that at the end of the day Bush did what he thought was necessary to safe-guard his neighborhood.”
Believe me when I say I’m sorry I ever tried to use such a simplistic tool to get my point across. I should know better than to pander.
Anyway … Iraq, while not the most serious threat, posed a threat nonetheless (not a debateable point – Saddam and his regime was crazy and courted UBL and other nasty individuals throughout the years, giving us no reason to doubt he would do so again-a dangerous prospect in a suddenly 21st Century world) and would always be a potentially even worse threat. Though the sanctions seemed to have stemmed his WMD pursuit, the man was manipulating the hëll out of the UN in other ways (again, not debatable) and was therefore a rogue and unpredictable at best.
Therefore, Iraq proved to be the best, most exploitable point of entry to the Middle East to try and clean up a bad, bad situation and a plan implemented PREVIOUS administrations was put into play.
It truly astonishes me, though, how some of you get hung up on this ‘holier than thou’ attitude of “How dare the President lied/doctored/fabricated ____.” Every administration lies, every administration fabricates and does what it thinks is best at that time. Sometimes they are ultimatley right, sometimes they are ultimately wrong. Sometimes they get caught, sometimes they don’t. Bad choices have to be made sometimes and that’s why we elect OTHERS to do it.
Surely some of what I read disturbs me and gives me cause to pause and wonder about who I vote for, but in the end the American people will continue, however narrowly, to make the right choices for or against the right leaders.
So go pluck your flowers, hold hands, dream of a global village, and scream in the nude about the injustices of your government, panties, and pìššëd-on books. All you kitties and áršëhølëš can just go on fueling the useless, sensationalized aspects of this entire situation and distract yourselves as you like so that the debate can be left to the real dìçkš who will always have the stupidity and resolve to ultimately go out and do what is necessary.
America, f yeah!
Looking over the responses here, I am amazed at the number of people that feel that not disagreeing with the current administration in all areas is equal to questioning authority
It’s not that. It those, like X-Ray, who think Bush can do no wrong.
And, it shouldn’t surprise you, because Bush himself thinks he does no wrong.
SnarkyJerk: Now suppose tmbgfan goes back and reads the part where I say, “Of course, I realize no real analogy is ever going to capture the large scale complexities of the problem. Rather, I was trying to illustrate (fail or succeed) that at the end of the day Bush did what he thought was necessary to safe-guard his neighborhood.”
Now suppose SnarkyJerk goes and develops a sense of humor and pulls the stick from his ášš.
*snort*
See, now THIS response is funny, those others … not so much.
If I remember correctly, and I think i do… There was NO evidence linking Saddam with UBL. None what so ever! Those claims that were put forth have since been proven false. Just like the WMD stockpiles. Just like the buying of fissionable material from Africa. And yes Presidents lie. Of course they do. No one questions that. What we do question is when the lie costs so many American lives and looks like it will continue to cost even more. This isn’t some stupid personal lie like getting a bløw jøb, this is an act of government policy.
Conservatives are considerably less of a group-think classification than liberals
“Questioning the president only helps the terrorists” – John Ashcroft
People protesting the war are traitors (I don’t have the exact quote right now) – Bill O’Reilly
‘Bill Maher is a traitor (for joking about the military’s recruitment problems)’ – some right winger whose name we’ve already forgotten
I heard about a news report that stated that the insurgents in Iraq are actually mostly from neighboring countries, … but troublemakers from Iran, Syria, and others are coming across the border to hamper any potential democratic advances. … are there any substantiated sources out there about this?
Only the neo-cons who wanted to invade Iraq & who are trying to create an opportunity to invade Iran and/or Syria.
Although you-know-who will be along shortly to tell us it’s true because BUSH SUCKS!
Replying to Mike I say:
“Rove, Limbaugh, Hannity hand out republican talking points to allow trolls to do this.”
Oooookay. (Backs up slowly, smiling).
Mike replies:
Please don’t take my word for it. Take the word of someone who used to be one of your own. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/oneill1.html
First off, everyone please go read this thing so Mike will be happy. By the way, if you check out the homepage that this is posted on you can also read about how the fall of the twin Towers was NOT due to the airplanes crashing into them as previously suspected and that Nixon was brought down by a coup. Something for everyone!
Second–I know you probably believe this stuff because nobody would keep saying something so silly if they didn’t…but you are, in a much nicer way, as crazy as X-ray. Believe me, I’m not important enough to get any talking points handed to me and you are not important enough to use them on even if I was.
Nope, just a blog set up by a talented writer, which attracts people of varying persuasions. It might make you happy to think that this is all something bigger than just a select few people shooting the šhìŧ with each other…but it ain’t.
And you know…or, more accurately, I guess you don’t–it is actually possible for perfectly reasonable people to come to completely opposite conclusions. Not because of brainwashing, or microchips implanted in the brain, or a desire to emulate Rush Limbaugh, or whatever. The daft left has become such a perfect mirror image of the daft right that one would almost suspect it all some kind of massive performance art if Occam’s razor did not demand a far simpler explanation.
Considering the 380 tons of explosives reported missing last year, George Bush is still al Qaeda’s leading contender for MVP.
You know, I’ve been wondering what ever happened to that story. First they said that the explosives had vanished after the Americans secured the area then it came out that nobody really knew how much if any explosives were there when the Americans arrived, which is not much of a story but there you are. So, did anyone ever get to the bottom of this story?
To Peter David. Al Qaeda would be proud of your website. They really would.
That’s idiotic, really. Have you READ this site?
“And thanks to George W. Bush, they have far more recruits to read it
Is there any decent place to find what the actual reality of Al Qaeda’s membership really is? I mean, if they are doing so well at gaining recruits they certainly have little to show for it
Jerry,
The problem with ever using a quote by H.L. Mencken is that you’re liable to get one thrown back at you like:
“The educated Negro of today is a failure, not because he meets insuperable difficulties in life, but because he is a Negro. His brain is not fitted for the higher forms of mental effort; his ideals, no matter how laboriously he is trained and sheltered, remain those of a clown.”.
The guy was brilliant but pretty much a real bášŧárd, it would seem. Not that the two have ever been mutually exclusive.
Bush banned stem cell research. That’s the truth. Sure he’s giving money to do research with already collected stem cells, but collecting anymore is illegal. It’s been banned.
I believe you are mistaken. My understanding is that research with new stem cells is NOT banned. You just don’t get federal money for it. There is a difference. (For the record, I disagree with that stance).
“I think the comment function should be turned off for THIS thread as well. End of discussion.”
Ohhhh, the old reverse psychology ploy…he wants us to THINK that he wants us to stop commenting so that we will ACTUALLY make EVEN MORE comments….getting him ever closer to that elusive number of comments which will…which will…do…whatever…ok, I got nothing.