Went to Ariel’s school concert last night. Unlike other school systems where specifics of the season are being meticulously expunged, here they actually sing Christmas songs (along with, of all things, a medley from “Fiddler.”) I find that preferable. I think inclusive is always preferable to exclusive. What kind of message are schools sending kids if they effectively stick their heads in the sand and try to ignore all signs of the holidays.
Also, as a Jew, I have to say I don’t understand how it’s possible for the “true meaning” of Christmas to be lost. Yesterday, as I went to the post office to buy a $5 money order and encountered fifteen people on line, each juggling half a dozen packages…or when a local strip mall where I buy groceries had no parking places because it was choked with holiday buyers…or when street after street, normally easy driving, was clogged with traffic…in short, when even the simplest errand took forever, I cannot tell you the number of times I shouted, “Jeeeeesus Chriiiiist.”
PAD
• 
Addendum:
Concerning the secular vs. religious celebrations of Christmas, the representative of a Christian-based organization (the name of which I
I just find it hilarious that christians have co-opted so many “pagan” holidays.
“Xmas” took over the Winter Solstice celebration (when their “jesus” would have been born sometime mid-spring, per theological dating), “Easter” took over the holiday associated with the goddess Eostre, (and was associated with spring fertility rituals, if I recall right), and the dates of both of those have nothing to do with christianity – except that early christians wanted to have people forget about the “pagan” origins of those dates.
If christians really wanted to celebrate their leaders “birthday” – why aren’t they pushing to have the religious date put around the actual timeframe, and removed from all the commercialism?
“There was never any consideration for Jewish students in my elementary school until my mother (the school nurse at the time) fought for the inclusion of Jewish-oriented (probably Chanukah-oriented) songs in the Christmas concert. Yay Mom!!”
That’s nothin’ (well, it’ something, but get this…) In high school, I had a math teacher who made a point of scheduling tests on every major Jewish holiday, including high holy days such as Yom Kippur. And it wasn’t accidental, because she took care to say that any student who was absent for one of her tests and didn’t have a doctor’s note would get an automatic “F.”
When my father got a whiff of that, he went to the principal with metaphorical guns blazing, and made short work of THAT plan.
“PAD, as a Jew who has no doubt been greeted with
Den said, of Target:
I did some checking on the internet and it seems that part of the story was a lie. They are publicly traded company based in Minneapolis.
[snip]
Hard to believe that conservatives would distort the truth, huh?
Most of your point was reasonable, Den, but I don’t think one cranky guy exerting his temper qualifies as “conservatives”. (See Snopes for more “Target != French” debunking, with the story about the cranky temper tantrum in question, at http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/target.asp ) I’m not particularly conservative either, but some of my family are, including several of the veterans, and they have better self-monitoring skills than that. Unthinking fanatics come in all flavors: Christian and Wiccan, conservative and liberal, X-Men and Bat-family; I don’t think they’re representative of the class.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic: Christmas is TOOOO CROWDED!
JOEL ROBINSON: You wrote a Christmas song?
CROW T. ROBOT: Hey, there’s no tradition like a new tradition! Ha ha ha!
TOM SERVO: Um, wait a minute. “Let’s Have a Patrick Swayze Christmas?”
CROW: Oh, yeah, yeah. Based on my favorite movie, Roadhouse.
TOM: C’mon, what the heck does PATRICK SWAYZE have to do with CHRISTMAS?!
CROW: Hey, you keep Christmas in your way, and let me keep it in mine, okay?
Man, that was so awesome. Where is that from?
Anyway, here’s my contribution to this blog, just for PAD. Even though he’s probably heard it a jillion times, but anyway, this one has a special celebrity guest who makes it all better in the end. Ðámņ, I wish I had that album here right now. Anyway, enjoy!
It’s hard to be a Jew on Christmas.
My friends wont let me join in any games.
And I cant sing Christmas songs
Or decorate a Christmas tree
Or leave water out for Rudolph
`Cause there’s something wrong with me.
My people don’t believe in Jesus Christ’s divinity.
I’m a Jew,
A lonely Jew
On Christmas.
Hanukkah is nice but why is it
That Santa passes over my house every year?
And instead of eating ham I have to eat kosher latkes
Instead of Silent Night I’m singing
Hoo Hact Toh Gaveesh
And what the fûçk is up with lighting all these
Fûçkìņg candles please?
I’m a Jew,
A lonely Jew
I can’t be merry
`Cause I’m Hebrew
On Christmas.
Celebrity Guest: “Hey, little boy!
I couldn’t help but hear
Your feeling left out of Christmas cheer
And I’ve come to say that you shouldn’t be sad
This is the one month you should be glad!”
`Cause its nice to be a Jew on Christmas.
You don’t have to deal with the season at all.
You don’t have to be on your best behavior or give to charity.
You don’t have to have to go to grandma’s house with your alcoholic family.
Kyle: And I don’t have to sit on some fake Santa’s lap
And have him breath is stinky breath on me.
Celebrity Guest: That’s right, your a Jew!
Kyle: A styling Jew!
Together: Its a good time to be Hebrew,
On Christmas…
Celebrity Guest: On Christmas
What, no Mr. Hankey?
Hard to believe that conservatives would distort the truth, huh?
Den, not having heard the context, I would more suspect it was either said tongue in cheek since conservatives have called anything that they felt unpatriotic as “French” as a way of slamming it, or it was just a continuation of an urban myth. While I don’t like Bill O’Reilly, I doubt he was knowingly or deliberately distorting the truth on this topic. It really would serve no point.
Concerning the “assault” on Christmas, I disagree with you. While I would say it is a mosquito biting an elephant (no pun intended), I do think there is a concious effort this year in particular. While I don’t agree with the perspective, it is clear that some feel the religious conservative right is trying to take over government, create a religious state, and establish a national religion (in practice, if not in reality). So there is a reaction by some to this perceived threat. So yes, there has indeed been an “assault” on Christmas this year. I am not worried about it, but neither do I just ignore it completely.
RE: Macy’s — I forgot your post mentioned them by name. Other posts mentioned another store, and I know of just regular companies here telling employees to not say even in a work context (not a retail context) to not say “Merry Christmas,” and so I forgot you were specific. My bad.
Jim in Iowa
Den, not having heard the context, I would more suspect it was either said tongue in cheek since conservatives have called anything that they felt unpatriotic as “French” as a way of slamming it, or it was just a continuation of an urban myth. While I don’t like Bill O’Reilly, I doubt he was knowingly or deliberately distorting the truth on this topic. It really would serve no point.
Until I heard about his sexual harassment case, I might have believed that, but after reading how stupid he really is, I’d believe anything about him now.
The fact is, it is a rumor that is all over the net right and not every site I looked at refutes it, so it’s easy for people to believe it. It was not tongue in cheek. I found one message board today where a poster claimed to be a former Target employee repeated the rumor as fact.
RE: Macy’s — I forgot your post mentioned them by name. Other posts mentioned another store, and I know of just regular companies here telling employees to not say even in a work context (not a retail context) to not say “Merry Christmas,” and so I forgot you were specific. My bad.
Fair enough. My problem is that the hypersensitivity of this country goes in both directions. Everyone is too focused on either avoiding exposing people to anything they might not like or putting their point of view out in a “in your face” manner. To me, groups calling for a boycott of all stores that aren’t greeting their costumers with “Merry Christmas” is just a step away from “let’s require all the Jewish owned stores to put a gold star in the window.”
To me, groups calling for a boycott of all stores that aren’t greeting their costumers with “Merry Christmas” is just a step away from “let’s require all the Jewish owned stores to put a gold star in the window.”
This is where things get interesting. I, to a small degree, feel the same thing from the other side. Not an active threat that it could happen tomorrow, but that if certains groups had their way, we would head that way Christians would be forbidden from practicing our faith. So I can see your point, but think it works both ways. Most (on either side) are not as consistent as you are in how you apply your beliefs.
RE: O’Reilly — I have no idea of the truth of the allegations. Clearly something happened since there were some tapes (as I recall). In my opinion he is like Kobe Bryant — whether he is actually guilty of what he is accused of, he was definitely guilty of being an idiot and violating his relationship with his wife. His stupidity either led to his crime, or to his being easily accused of his crime.
Jim in Iowa
we would head that way Christians would be forbidden from practicing our faith.
Sorry for the incoherent sentence. I changed the way I was framing my thought in mid sentence, but didn’t proof read before I posted. The idea is that some groups would prefer I as a Christian keep my faith to myself and it not be expressed in any way in the public square. I disagree strongly with such a view. While I in no way want to *impose* my beliefs on anyone, I do want to *persuade* others to my viewpoint. And I am open to others trying to persuade me to theirs. Which is why I keep coming back to PAD’s site.
Jim in Iowa
I don’t care if people want to wish each other a Merry Christmas or a Happy Winter Solstice. But I completely believe that celebration of those holidays should be a private affair. In school it’s fine to learn about the holidays of various religions, their historical context, even doing crafts and decorations for display, etc. But they shouldn’t be celebrated the way so many schools do. There shouldn’t be Christmas parties and card exchanges. Halloween and Valentine’s Day may be holidays with historically religious roots, but in our current society they are celebrated by and large as secular holidays, and therefore I don’t have a problem with them. Christmas still hasn’t been able to escape its religious background and become an inclusive secular holiday (although it’s getting close, and in Japan it’s pretty much exactly that).
I’m probably a lot more sensitive than most people when it comes to the subject of religion in school. I think a lot of it comes from being one of the only Jewish kids in my school as a child (the other one was my sister) and having teachers and students expect everyone to bow their heads and pray during “student-led” prayers at various events. Those who are part of the majority can never really understand what it’s like to feel completely out of place and unwanted during those times, especially as a child when you would expect teachers would be trying to build self-esteem instead of breaking it down. It hurts, and it builds nothing but anger and resentment that is still hard to overcome as an adult when dealing with fervently religious zealots who can’t understand why everyone doesn’t believe exactly what they do.
Not an active threat that it could happen tomorrow, but that if certains groups had their way, we would head that way Christians would be forbidden from practicing our faith.
Newsweek had a recent poll that said that 79% of Americans believe in the virgin birth. I’d say that Christians are pretty safe in practicing their religion in this country.
“I was repeating what some conservatives, including Bill O’Reilly and my mother-in-law (don’t ask) told me. So, yeah, I made a mistake in repeating it without checking first, it was conservative groups that started the lie.”
I don’t think your mother in law qualifies as a conservative group.
Now MINE, on the other hand…she’s a big woman.
I said, SHE’S A BIG WOMAN…
(OK, fine, I’ll just PRETEND someone said “How big is she?”
Oh she’s BIG, lemme tell ya! She wakes up in sections! When she goes to the beach she’s the only one who gets a tan! She walked by the TV once and I missed 3 episodes of LOST!
She’s a big woman!
(Who, if she ever reads this, is actually not all that big. Love ya!)
I have a confession to make that shows very well how much ignorance there is about religion: I knew that PAD is Jewish for quite a while but only learned last year that Jews don`t celebrate Christmas.
My school days are long behind me and unfortunately the few years I actually had religious teaching, it was just about the Christian belief. Hopefully, when my daughter starts going to school in a few years, things are different here in Britain.
Anyway, sending Christmas cards is a strong tradition in our family and therefore I used to send one to PAD as well. I am not doing it any more, of course. 🙁
This kind of reminds me of when my school chorus prepared for a christmas concert about 20 years age. We practiced a whole bunch of christmas songs and a single hanukkah song. Come time for the concert the hanukkah song was dropped from the program. It wasn’t until years later that I began to wonder if this was done to keep from upsetting some parents that their christian kids were singing jewish songs.
I always assumed that people saying “Happy Holidays” were including Christmas and New Years together. Now I find out it is a secular plot against Christians. Boy, you would think I would have gotten the memo.
Baerbel,
We had a Jewish family living across the street from us when I was young. During Hanukkah one year, they were gracious enough to allow me to stay and pray and share in their celebrations. I was young enough that I don’t remember the specifics, other than feeling very privileged to be asked.
Personally, I have no problem receiving Hanukkah cards or anything similar from other faiths outside of Christianity. I feel that it is a gift they are sharing, not an imposition of belief.
(Of course, if I were brought up Jewish and received 90% Christmas cards, I might feel differently.)
I am Jewish and when someone sends me a Christmas card I am thankful that they thought of me and appreciate the sentiment. Anyone can tell me to have a Merry Christmas. It’s when they tell me I should start celebrating it that I get upset.
Tell you a little story from over the weekend.
I went into the local World Market to get a few gift cards. I get in line, and just as I’m next in line I discover that I left my wallet in the van. Oops.
In the meantime the woman ahead of me has purchased two large pieces of furniture and obviously can’t get them to her car by herself (or with the aid of her young son). The clerks are all extremely busy and can’t really spare someone for the five-ten minutes it’s going to take to help the woman. So I explain that I have to go get my wallet anyway, so I’d be happy to help this lady with her stuff. Dropped jaws EVERYWHERE. I guess an act of kindness during the season is unheard of.
So here’s my challenge to everyone–for the next week or two, look for opportunities to help someone or just perform an act of kindness. Maybe then we’ll hear more about the good things that happened to one another as well as the bad.
Worth a shot.
JSM
Someone’s form of inclusion is someone else’s form of exclusion. I’m fascinated that many Christians seem to percieve unversalizing or “PC”ing the holiday songs/wishes as a threat. It’s like saying that Christmas is in danger because ornaments are no longer allowed on the tree. These are surface changes. The substance of the holiday is still there, and as near as I can tell people are still free to celebrate it. When I was in elementary school, they never said (let alone sang) a word about Chanukah, but my family celebrated it just fine. People are just afraid of change, is all.
Ah, X-mas in school…
I recall all of the students had to sing together. Included was one song about Hannukka*.
I was eight or nine at the time and to this day I am convinced that the song was not written by a Jewish person. Even then I was pretty good about spotting… well, I’ll just call it ‘Lip-service.’
It just seemed insincere.
Lucky me, I wasn’t raised with any specific religous belif rammed down my gullet (we did X-mas as a family but without all the religous overtones). I think this enabled me to be more open to other views.
In looking back I realize that my step-father (deceased) gave up alot: He was Jewish but his beliefs never entered into the equation. I regret that more with each passing year. Not because I have a great nead to understand the nuances of the Jewish faith, but rather that I would like to have learned them from him.
As for myself, I think X-mas is a farce. I mean that in the ‘marketing gimmick’ sense. I celebrate two two holidays this time of year: Festivus, December 23 and Humbugery, that period starting with the too-early X-mas music/decorations/marketing and ending sometime in August when the last of the decorations come down.
Humbugus Festivi!!
Mitch Evans
*What IS the correct spelling of Hannukka? Even on calenders there seems to be a wide variation.
For example, the recent “Holiday of Lights” in Denver allowed groups from all over town – except Christians – to contribute a float for the festival. Why the exclusion of just that faith?
I haven’t looked for alot of articles about this, but I live in Denver and, for one, it’s the Parade of Lights. 😉
Two, there was a recent agreement announced that will allow a (or more) Christian floats or whatever in the parade.
However, the article I read today did not say whether any OTHER religions have been given the go ahead to participate as well in coming years. That is still up for discussion.
As a side note, I could give a rat’s ášš about this Parade – I avoid downtown Denver as much possible now, because, for all the money they’ve dumped into it, it’s becoming a dump again.
Stores are leaving and the influx of homeless and stupid kids continues to grow.
Maybe with the new convention center, some money can be used to find a way to clean up downtown again (other than building a “tent city” for the homeless 1/4 mile away).
These are surface changes. The substance of the holiday is still there, and as near as I can tell people are still free to celebrate it.
Yep. As long as the commercialization of Thanksgiving and Christmas is the most important thing, what else really matters? 🙂
Maybe i’m not paying attention, but over the course of this message board I’ve noticed many people discussing this idea that christmas is under attack? I just read in newsweek that 96 percent of america celebrate christmas. What sort of damage are the four percent of us who aren’t celebrating doing? I’m just confused. In what way exactly should christmas be fearing for itself?
Amichai:
>Maybe i’m not paying attention, but over the course of this message board I’ve noticed many people discussing this idea that christmas is under attack? I just read in newsweek that 96 percent of america celebrate christmas. What sort of damage are the four percent of us who aren’t celebrating doing? I’m just confused. In what way exactly should christmas be fearing for itself?
In the same way that the institution of marriage is at risk by allowing homosexuals to legally marry. *As long as you don’t look at the 60% of divorces as being a factor putting the institution at risk.*
If only 1% of the public had their free speech attacked would that be an insignificant number?
I’m just saying…
Mitch,
*What IS the correct spelling of Hannukka? Even on calenders there seems to be a wide variation.
Hebrew words are spelled phonetically in the English language because Hebrew letters do not conform to the letters of our alphabet. While there is wide agreement on some words and they are spelled the same each time, others are spelled as close to the English sound as is possible.
Peter David: Also, as a Jew, I have to say I don’t understand how it’s possible for the “true meaning” of Christmas to be lost
“Anyway, sending Christmas cards is a strong tradition in our family and therefore I used to send one to PAD as well. I am not doing it any more, of course. :(“
I get tons of Xmas cards and have never, ever, taken offense at it. I’m always pleased to hear from folks. So don’t sweat it.
When my sister and I were really young, we used to get our presents on Christmas and even had stockings although we were Jewish. Once I started going to Hebrew School that changed :)Our chorus always did a lot of Christian songs, whether it was Christmas or not, but me and a friend, who posts on the board as well, both decided not to sing Jesus’ name as a form of minor protest.
-Neil
“I’ve always been rather partial to “Holy Moses!” myself. And of course, there’s always “Jumping Jehosaphat!”.”
Toss in “Sufferin Sappho!” to be even more inclusive
I listened to the Dead Milkmen in college and still chuckle when I think of the dailogue break in the middle of Bìŧçhìņ’ Camero….. “Jumpin’ Jesus on a pogo stick”. heheh, base humor, but great visual.
I am all for inclusion and infinite diversity in infinite combination.
But and however, I am also a staunch supporter (as I had thought PAD was) in separation of church and state. Public schools should not teach religion or religious songs. There is a time and a season for every purpose under heaven as the saying goes. I see no reason why religious songs (of any persuasion) need to be included in a December concert any more than they need to be included in a May concert.
At this point, all I can say is –
Happy Christmahanukkwaanzsolyuldan!!
(And if I missed anybody, let me know – I’ll try to work your holiday in, too…) 🙂
Todd,
But and however, I am also a staunch supporter (as I had thought PAD was) in separation of church and state. Public schools should not teach religion or religious songs. There is a time and a season for every purpose under heaven as the saying goes. I see no reason why religious songs (of any persuasion) need to be included in a December concert any more than they need to be included in a May concert.
In this case, I think I’ve got to disagree in part (and you’ll find few people more adamant about church/state separation than I am). Teaching choral music that happens to have religious content isn’t the same thing as “teaching religion”, any more than a HS-age rock band deciding to cover Pearl Jam’s “Jeremy” is advocating teen suicide.
There’s a lot of very beautiful music that came out of one or another religious choral tradition, and simply saying that none of it’s allowed ever seems to be limiting one’s musical education without much recompense.
If you’re singing stuff from a whole bunch of different traditions, you’re not really favoring any one of them, which is the primary point of the separation in question.
TWL
It depends how religious education is done. I would strongly object if my child is taught just Christianity and I would most definitely complain if the teacher tries to turn the children into intolerant Bible thumpers, teaching not only human values but also religious ones I very strongly object to.
But religious education that doesn`t preach but teaches facts, that informs about various religions and discusses the differences and values openly, that can only benefit children. More, it is a valuable contribution against religious hatred and extremism.
“I listened to the Dead Milkmen in college and still chuckle when I think of the dailogue break in the middle of Bìŧçhìņ’ Camero….. “Jumpin’ Jesus on a pogo stick”.”
Just a quick correction–the song is actually “Stuart”…unless there’s another version of Bìŧçhìņ Camero I don’t know about (The one I have has all the great dialogue at the beginning”)
Stuart is one of those songs bthat really should have had a video…
Hey everyone, if you haven’t seen it yet, try http://www.broom.org/epic/ Kinda cool and scary.
Also, check out http://www.world.honda.com/HDTV/ASIMO/200412-run/index.html
I, for one, WELCOME our robot overlords!
You can teach music without teaching religion the same way you can teach the Bible as literature rather than religion. In fact, it’s probably easier with music.
Happy Christmahanukkwaanzsolyuldan!!
(And if I missed anybody, let me know – I’ll try to work your holiday in, too…) 🙂
Bodhi Day is December 6th. 🙂
And just for the sake of completion, Robbnn – you’ll see that right after I said my bit about religiously conservative people not being sane, I said you could say that about anyone with strong beliefs could be painted as such. Yay for reading comprehension!
Jim in Iowa – well, as a Canadian friend said, “you need a good legal reason to sue in the States?” Frivilous lawsuits are all the rage, and I fully agree that it would be frivilous to sue over someone saying Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays. That said, what do I think they’d try suing for? Probably the same thing that a group did out here a while back, and sue for pain and suffering from alienation of the holiday, or whatever it was. (They settled with the store out of court.)
Regardless of whether a lawsuit had merit, it would still cost the May company (who owns Macy’s, amongst other stores) money. And in certain areas, corporate lawyers are just really gung-ho to avoid that sort of thing.
-Kelly
Bill:
>>”I listened to the Dead Milkmen in college and still chuckle when I think of the dailogue break in the middle of Bìŧçhìņ’ Camero….. “Jumpin’ Jesus on a pogo stick”.”
>Just a quick correction–the song is actually “Stuart”…unless there’s another version of Bìŧçhìņ Camero I don’t know about (The one I have has all the great dialogue at the beginning”)
Hmmm…. it has been years. Is Stuart on Big Lizard in My Backyard, at least? My memory is quickly becoming a thing of the past *sigh*.
teaching religion based choral music in public schools is not a problem, in my mind, provided more than just christian music is taught. There is plenty fo choral music out there from different cultures. I think learing about religion and culture through song is a great idea. It’s just that in my expereince the only songs taught are the christian ones in public schools. Most of the christian choral music is beautiful and should be taught, and sung, but not solely the christian choral music.
And I still don’t understand, as I asked before, how christmas is under attack?
Amichai,
It depends greatly on the school district. Ours does a decent job of being inclusive – if they exclude anything it’s Christianity first. Some districts have gone too far, some not far enough. Whether it’s “under attack” is in the eye of the beholder.
“And it is because of that basic fact that is observable to anyone stepping outside their door in December that I, even as a non-affiliated Christian, am amazed that conservatives are actively promoting this myth that Christmas is somehow under ‘assault.'”
Let’s be honest here; the people who believe Christmas is under “assault” are the same folks who wouldn’t be satisfied until this nation is turned into a Christian theocracy. They think Touched by an Angel is non-Christian because it makes no overt mention of Jesus, that the schools are trying to undermine their faith by teaching evolution, and that preventing Roy Moore from putting a monument of the Ten Commandments in his court is the fault of “activist judges.”
As an atheist, hearing Christians whine about being “persecuted” in the US of A is like hearing Bill Gates whine about how the anti-monopoly laws are restricting his business practices — there’s not even the slightest bit of contact with reality there…
–R.J.
Kelly,
It “could be said about any other” is fine and true, but you DID say it about religious conservatives (and only implied it about any other). Don’t sweat it, though. I’m not mad or anything (though my initial response was harsh. Forgive me please). I find it fascinating how everyone (that includes me) is so quick to condemn something, yet unknowingly practice it themselves. Like my dislike for rude flyby’s even though that’s exactly what I did to you. It’s been a rough season. Sorry again.
As an atheist, hearing Christians whine about being “persecuted” in the US of A is like hearing Bill Gates whine about how the anti-monopoly laws are restricting his business practices — there’s not even the slightest bit of contact with reality there…
Hmm, that’s interesting. Obviously, the US government has not declared that Christianity is the national religion, but it’s the perception that the ACLU fights. Yet, Christians are actually feeling persecuted, regardless of whether you agree or not, remember, we’re still talking about perceptions. So at what point does the part of the Constituition that “prohibits the free exercise” of religion kick in?
Karen
Thanks for the info. It’s one of those little facts that has eluded me for years, probably due to my lack of paying attention.
PAD: “I get tons of Xmas cards and have never, ever, taken offense at it. I’m always pleased to hear from folks. So don’t sweat it.”
I wish more people would learn from this example. If more people could take well wishings in the spirit in which they are offered instead of reacting from ego… Well, you know where I’m going with this.
Mark L: “You can teach music without teaching religion the same way you can teach the Bible as literature rather than religion. In fact, it’s probably easier with music.”
I agree but I should point out that music programs in public schools are (I can’t resist) ‘under attack.’ In my area the only reason such a program (barely) exists is for the purpose of performing at school functions AKA football games and graduation. Hëll, even when I was in second or third grade we were taught nothing about music theory but rather what songs to play for school functions. It’s really quite sad that there is disproportionate funding for music and other programs while sports programs tend to get funded without much effort.
Bear in mind that sports have a place and I’m not claiming otherwise. Both sports and music have a rich history and in the process of learning either there are many benefits for students. They each contain elements of science, mathematics, and teamwork that can lead to great acheivements.
Sorry, this turned into a speach on me when I wasn’t looking.
If X-mas and Christianity are under attack I’d have to say that it’s under attack by the extreme religious right. Those are the people who are giving it all a bad name and, in their unending desire to force everyone else ‘in line’, they give the whole thing a rather annoying image. Who wants to be associated with anything like that?
Regards,
Mitch Evans
So at what point does the part of the Constituition that “prohibits the free exercise” of religion kick in?
Maybe when the reality actually catches up to the perception?
I realize that the Bush slander machine got a lot of mileage spreading rumors around the south that Kerry was planning on having the Bible outlawed, but let’s be realistic here. Christians are not an endangered species here. Even if you assume that the 20% of the population that does not consider themselves to be Christians were all conspiring to outlaw Christianity, how exactly would they implement it?
Let’s look at the Pledge of Allegiance case. Politicians from both parties fell all over themselves expressing their support for keeping “under God” in the pledge and the decision was set aside under political pressure.
How many openly atheistic candidates have been elected president in the past 100 years? Answer: Zero.
How many non-Christians have been nominated for president or vice president by one of the major parties in the past 100 years? Answer: One, Joe Lieberman. And he lost.
So please, spare me the arguments that Christians are under assault because a few school productions have dropped religious music from their programs or a store clerk didn’t give you a “Merry Christmas” with the proper amount of religious fervor behind it.
Are government stormtroopers burning down churches and seizing Bibles? No.
Are Christians banned from the airwaves? Please. Televangelists and other religious programs air all the time. The Catholic Church even has its own cable channel.
I agree that there’s too much hypersenstivity on both sides of the issue and people are looking for reasons to be offended. But, Christianity under assault? That maybe be good for GOP fundraising and Sean Hannity’s ratings, but it has no basis in reality.
Bodhi Day is December 6th. 🙂
Okay, Happy Chrisbodhanukkwaanzsolyuldan!
So at what point does the part of the Constituition that “prohibits the free exercise” of religion kick in?
Maybe when the reality actually catches up to the perception?
I can’t help but find it rather interesting that people who seem to consider themselves as “protectors of free speech” are telling other Americans to “shut up” and “stop whining” because they disagree with them.
Apparently, the First amendment only applies to non-Christians.
I realize that the Bush slander machine got a lot of mileage spreading rumors around the south that Kerry was planning on having the Bible outlawed, but let’s be realistic here.
Actually, this is the first time I’ve heard anything about it, and I’m in the south.
How many openly atheistic candidates have been elected president in the past 100 years? Answer: Zero.
Umm… how many have run?
How many non-Christians have been nominated for president or vice president by one of the major parties in the past 100 years? Answer: One, Joe Lieberman. And he lost.
Same question.
So please, spare me the arguments that Christians are under assault because a few school productions have dropped religious music from their programs or a store clerk didn’t give you a “Merry Christmas” with the proper amount of religious fervor behind it.
The question isn’t how many are dropping religious school productions, or store clerks aren’t saying “Merry Christmas”, but why are they doing it? And yeah, if the reason given most often is to stave off a lawsuit, then sounds to me like persecution using the government Courts.
I don’t have a problem with anyone saying “Happy Holidays” or “Season’s Greetings”,
Well actually that last one just never made sense to me. I mean, do you guys get upset if someone wishes you a Happy New Year as well?
just food for thought: How many non-white’s have been elected president? none, and there have been those that have run.
Just because less non christians (athiests and other people with other religious affiliations) have run doesn’t change the political reality that until recently it would have been inconcievable for a jew or athiest to be president. There barely have been any catholic presidents. The reality is if a jew or muslim or hindu, buddist, or athiest, or any one not white and christian (mostly protastant I think) had no chance of winning a presindential election until most recently, and it still hasn’t happened.
Perception is powerful, and I can appreciate the fact that that there is a percieved assult on christmas when certian songs are no longer taught in schools. the fact of the matter is, as i see it, it is less an attack on christmas and more about being sensitive to non-christians. Just because some songs (and I’m sticking to songs as an example, but this works with christmas pagents and so on) were taught in the past, that doesn’t mean it’s right to keep teaching them (again this is only in public school and the like, not private institutions).
And this leads me to believe that the perception of christmas being attacked is just that, a perception, not the reality of the situation.