Definitely astronauts. Particularly if you’re talking about the airforce trained “Right stuff” guys from the 60s. They’ve got the reach, they’ve got the intelligence. And if you’re incorporating Captain Kirk, he’s got that snappy thing where he jumps at you with both feet and knocks both his opponent and himself down. So I agree with Angel, astronauts definitely beat cavemen.
Kathleen and I are still mulling over whether the Village People could beat up Metallica, however.
PAD
• 
And yet, I feel that there’s a lot to be said for those cavemen. They’ve got that whole, primal hunter mindset already in place, used to taking on the big foes. Excepting those pesky Starfleet captains, most astronauts don’t really learn the fighting skills so much as the astrophysics…
Gonna have to go with Spike on this one.
While the Astronauts are examing their surroundings, and trying to make peace with the natives, the natives would be crushing their skulls in with their newfound skullcrushing skills they picked up from the Monolith.
The only thing the Village people can do is spell. Not much use in a fight.
Oh and cavemen all the way.
I was wondering when you’d comment on this important issue. 🙂
Sadly, I must respectfully disagree. I was in the astronaut camp as well until it was pointed out to me that the Neaderthal had strength equivalent to that of a gorilla whereas the civilized astronauts still only have the strength of a homo sapien.
The astronaut do have massive intellects but their knowledge of astrophysics, strategy and hëll, in Kirk’s case, foot-fu would only be helpful if there was time to create a plan. And I don’t think the cavemen would be waiting around politely for the astronauts to strategize. Being aware of how to pilot a shuttle and play chess will not help you very much when a savage cave-dweller instictively runs up and pounds you with his hairy fists.
The only hope the astronauts might have, in my opinion, is that their scary, shiny dome heads will frighten/fascinate the caveman. Or that their big astronaut spacesuits would cushion the blows long enough for them to fend off the cavemen and retreat to make gunpowder or something.
Of course, if this battle were to take place on the astronaut’s “home turf”, I’d give it to the astronauts in a heartbeat. Cavemen and zero g wouldn’t mix.
Cavemen.
I mean, that was the point of the whole episode, right?
Old mystical demon beats the science girl and her friends with all their fancy technology.
I’m convinced this was partially a reference to the 1960’s sitcom “It’s About Time”, about astronauts and cavemen. Best remembered for its memorable theme song (come on, if you watched the show, you know the song).
But I like Mark’s point, above, as well.
Cavemen..
Astronauts are a sitting duck in those bulky suits. Their best bet is to scare the cavemen with some fancy tricks.
No weapons? Then no contest. Have to be cavemen — especially if they’re neanderthals. No, they weren’t as strong as a gorilla, but they may as well be compared to modern man. They lived in a brutal world, and while the astronaut would be scratching his chin, thinking, “Well I’ll be dipped, that’s a CAVEMAN,” his head would get screwed off.
My mother pointed out that astronauts in their big heavy shoes and helmets would face serious difficulties…
Myself, I figure if you clobber a caveman over the head, he just gets annoyed and kicks your ášš.
Cavemen. Definitly going with cavemen.
I mean they just HAD to be strong to survive what they survived. Humans today..no way. No way could we survive any of the stuff that the cavemen did.
The astronauts might have the shiny dome thing at first (like someone else said), but once it goes to a fight…bam. The Astronauts lose.
No doubt it would be caveman.
DF2506
” We may be smarter then the cavemen, but they are tougher! We’re talking about a fight here. No weapons what-so-ever.”
Note that I don’t watch television, so I didn’t see the show in question, but …
I just have to buck the tide and say “astronauts.” If they have weapons, bear in mind that most astronauts have been highly-trained members of the armed forces. These guys like guns. Boom go Og.
If we’re talking suited but “no weapons” … well, ain’t no such thing. There are a lot of things on a spacesuit (and there are a shitload of different spacesuits; I suspect most people just flash on the Apollo moon model–think instead of the inflatable orange pressure suits which Shuttle astronauts wear. Not heavy or bulky at all, when deflated.) which can serve–without any MacGuyver modification–as weapons. Testing rods (ever use a car antenna in a street fight?), acid packs, recoil “guns”. On certain suits, jetpacks alone will do the job. Let’s say Iron Man is crumpled, beaten, humbed, with 90% of his armor nonfunctional–all he needs do is point his heels at the villain, and you gotcher Blackened Gumbo Baddie fo’ dinna, I gar-on-TEE!
And yes; brains and cultural mores mean a LOT. After all, as Travis Morgan, Charlton Heston, and Marky Mark have taught us, astronauts are SOLDIERS, as I’ve said. And yes; you DO use tactics in a three-second street scrum. Plus, let’s be honest: If the astronauts appeared besuited, the cavemen would probably worship them. Fear them, too.
Cavemen are the crazy homeless wino guys of anthropology, after all: A little scary at first, but harmless and in desperate need of a razor, a hot bath, a good tailor, and intensive education.
Do the astronauts have time/initial distance from the cavement/correct environment to make gunpowder and a crude gun ala Fredric Brown’s short story Arena (later adapted as “Kirk vs. the Gorn lizard guy”)?
Also, are we talking the early military and in many cases war veteran astronauts, or the more recent civilian types?
I gotta go with cavemen as well. Cavemen are used to having to fight for their lives, astronauts are used to having things much easier.
However, “home field advantage” could also affect the outcome. Are the astronauts sent back in time to the cavemen, or are the cavemen brought forward in time to the astronauts?
Whenever this happened before the astronaut remembers this is the date of a convienient solar eclipse, so all he has to do is tell the cavemen unless the cavemen surrender, the sun god will be eaten.
I’m sorry, guys, but I think you’re completely underestimating what everything from a knowledge of martial arts to a ranger chokehold to a head-butt from a guy wearing a helmet (presuming he’s still in his suit) to a good old fashioned kick in the nuts would accomplish. Caveman really doesn’t stand a chance.
PAD
Well… the well trained fighter vs savages…
I don’t know… you can be trained all you want… but savages are still savages, and can take one hëll of a beating while delivering one. I’d equate the cavemen with wild beasts so…
I say Cavemen…. you try strangling a wild animal while it’s out to have you for dinner and see how far you get
John Crichton is an astronaut. He’s good in a fight, even without Winona.
What sort of fight are we talking about? No weapons at all? Can you make weapons, like when Kirk fought the Gorn?
http://www.savingangel.org
The big question is which astronauts are we talking about? Today’s crop of scientists, or the Mercury Seven? John Glenn could beat up anyone. A mathematician, a different kind of mathematician, and a statistician couldn’t.
If Batman is one of the astronauts than I’d have to go with them, otherwise it’s Cavemen, beefy, hairy hands down.
Also gonna have to take Metallica on that fight. They could get the Village People ‘three sheets to the wind’ drunk and push ’em over…like cow tipping.
Didn’t we see this resolved (albeit messily) in the last presidential election?
Astronaut beats caveman, barely. Then caveman asks tribal elders who won and they, being cavemen as well, say caveman won.
To celebrate, caveman run around world conking heads.
PAD, I’m disappointed in you. I think it’s a well-established fact that “astronauts or cavemen” is simply code for Superman or the Hulk.
Surely you wouldn’t have let someone whose father could be played by a Duke of Hazzard and his mother be played by his old girlfriend to lose to your boy?
I believe Kirk’s maneuver would be a “standing dropkick.”
I did my SNL “Caveman Lawyer” joke in the round-up thread.
It is interesting that people assume the astronauts are in their moonsuits and the fight is on the ancient velt or the caves of europe.
So, where is the fight? Maybe its in modern L.A.
Which cavemen? Neanderthal, Cro-mag? Austropithicus?
It’s all context.
To me it’s not so clear cut. I say if the caveman can get it in early, he’s got the benefit of strength and so will win. But if the astronaut can evade the initial strike by the caveman, I think his superior training will help him get the edge back, and astronaut will win.
Strangely, that’s very similar to my answer to the “Batman vs. Captain America” question…
People, people, when astronauts and cavemen fight, everyone is a loser.
Astronaut, all the way. There is much to be said for modern nutritiion, for military training, and for getting tang 3 times a day.
Has anybody here ever been hit by somebody using a helmet as a weapon, swinging it by the chinstrap? Frickin’ hurts!! I have to go with astronauts; those helmets can be devastating.
Of course, I suppose cavemen could take off their unwashed animal skins and smother astronauts with them, thus stinking them to death. ‘course, that’d have to be one resourceful mofoin’ caveman. I mean, he’d have to be ten times more resourceful than that Ron Perlman in ‘Clan of the Cave Bear,’
you know what I’m saying?
-That OTHER John Byrne
I say the fight has to be bare-knuckles, since weapons would raise the question ‘who gets which weapon” which would just muck things up. It’s about the groups, not the power of the weapons.
And sorry, but bare-knuckles…..astronauts don’t stand a chance. The cavemen may not have been as strong as a silverback, but certainly far stronger and faster than us today. And if a wild baboon (a far smaller and weaker animal than gorilla) or even a chimp would attack you, you wouldn’t stand a chance against its superior speed strength, ferocity and animal instincts.
Cavemen. Easily.
Assuming no weapons, and the astronaut has a reasonable amount of training, especially some martial arts, the caveman would be toast. Aikido and Judo specialize in turning an opponent’s speed and strength against them. Perfect against an untutored, unsophisticated enemy such as the caveman. Karate might not be as effective as the bëášŧìál being might ignore the pain and some damage. But getting pitched around like a frisbe by a Judoken would get his attention and quite possibly send him scurrying for cover.
More amusing would be:
Caveman and WWF star. Who wins? 😉
The StarWolf– “Caveman and WWF star. Who wins? ;-)”
If said WWF star is Triple H; then how would you tell them apart?
Caveman
He would smell Kirk’s Aqua Velva a mile away!!!
Surely Kirk wears Hai Karate!
Now what if the astronaut in question is Maj. Tony Nelson? Does having a genie on his side help him, or hurt him?
Steve Austin was an astronaut. Even went on a few missions after getting his bionics. He’s win, right? but wouldn’t bigfoot count as a caveman? Those fights were a draw.
how about Al from Quantum Leap? One look at his wardrobe, and the caveman would run away screaming.
But could any of them defeat Captain Caveman? Or for that matter what about Cavegirl Buffy from season four?
As you can see, I’m not taking this important issue seriously at all.
It’s tough, but I’m going to have go with Og and Co. on this one, just because I think they have a higher pain threshhold, owing to the fact that they can survive in spite of constant exposure to the elements. Constant exposure to Tang won’t help the astronauts one bit. Score one for Spike.
-Dave O’Connell
Go ahead! Bet on the cavemen! The superior Space Men laught at you!
Constant exposure to Tang won’t help the astronauts one bit.
Hey! I’ll have you know that I make a GREAT punching bag!
And just remember…guile and dirty tricks will beat speed, strength and Paleolithic bad breath any day….
My fellow readers:
With certain Activist Bloggers taking tradition into their own hands and creating uncertainty, I think the time has come for a Constitutional amendment which establishes that in the sacred tradition of a battle between one caveman and one astronaut, the winner must be the one I decide the Bible favors.
If this issue is not addressed, I fear the mayor of San Francisco will approve marriage between astronauts and cavemen, opening the Hellmouth and turning us all wee puppet men.
Well, what we need to do is look at some empirical evidence.
Now, when the Flintstones met the Jetsons…
Speaking as a martial artist, but not an astronaut, I’m not sure my many years of training would help me much in a fight against essentially a slightly weaker gorrila that spends his days hunting and killing, while I may train a few hours a day, several times a week. I don’t think even the greatest practitioner of the previously mentioned Aikido or Judo would last long against a gorrila, partially due to the fact that both arts assume your attacker is of similar structure to yourself (as opposed to apelike, but are we assuming these cavemen are apelike or the hollywood caveman?), and is attacking you with fairly traditional (not necessarily martial arts traditional) punches or kicks. Whereas I think the caveman would attack more like a baboon or gorrilla.
Alright, I’ll stop. That’s way too much thinking about this topic for now.
Monkeys
Hey, now HHH is actually a nice guy, despite the slightly cromagnon forehead. If the WWE star was The Big Show, that would be interesting.
Monkeys
Re: Flintstones vs. Jetsons. I’ve long had the theory that the Flintstones actually takes place *further* in the future than the Jetsons. My reason? Take a look at all those intelligent, clearly bio-engineered for specific tasks, animals in the Flintstones. Heck, Fred has a car that can seemingly do 30-40mph with no power source other than a bit of pushing with his feet when he starts it up. *Way* more advanced tech than the Jetsons’ era.
OK, so I do agree with PAD sometimes. Admittedly in the seven member shuttle crew, there will be “a mathematician, another kind of mathematician, and a statistician” (which is a great line, by the way), but most astronauts are still military. There’s a reason the primitive puny humans defer to the astronauts who keep landing on the Planets of the Apes. The astronauts win in a rout.
I’m sorry, guys, but I think you’re completely underestimating what everything from a knowledge of martial arts to a ranger chokehold to a head-butt from a guy wearing a helmet (presuming he’s still in his suit) to a good old fashioned kick in the nuts would accomplish. Caveman really doesn’t stand a chance.
And I think you’re over estimating modern man’s hand to hand fightng skills. Kirk’s drop-kick, judo, karate or any martial arts moves would mean nothing. And what makes you think cavemen wouldn’t know how to kick in the nuts anyway? Anyone think that’s a modern invention? Bigger, stronger bones, more muscle mass beats any fancy dancing Roger Ramjet might come up with. Bruce Lee couldn’t have kicked a chimp’s ášš, I’d bet, much less a neanderthal’s. And swinging a helmet might make Og go “Ow,” right before he takes it away and beats you to a bloody pulp with it.
Seriously, Peter, how can you think astronauts could stand a chance? Unless you playing devil’s advocate, here.
Wow. I see why Spike and Angel got so heated with this… 🙂
Kirk might have been able to defeat a bi-pedal lizard, but when his buddy Spock took the shuttlecraft down to a planet of primitive ape-men, he and the landing party barely made it back alive. Heston was at a disadvantage because the apes had rifles and horses. Maj. Nelson and Jeannie could just make the cavemen think they were losing their minds, just like they always did with Dr. Bellows. Once those troglodytes saw it was snowing inside the living-room, they’d scram right to the hills.
You geek guys should stop getting your science from comics and the movies. Go to a Museum or watch the discovery channel. Cavemen were not hulking gorilla-like humanoids. They were small, probably undernourished men who lived only into their twenties.
Astronauts are some of the fittest and best trained guys around.
Buzz Aldrin (at 70) punched out an annoying a-hole!
Its all relative to the people involved.
Capt kirk vs caveman:kirk wins
barney rubble vs george jetson:Barney in romp
Modern astronaut vs near sasquatch
caveman .Caveman.
Metallica vs Village people :Take the village people ,if you dress like that you better be able to kick some ones ášš.
Now for the real questions
Lady shiva vs Elektra
shang chi vs richard dragon
Angelus vs Blade
Discuss amongst yourselves
**You geek guys should stop getting your science from comics and the movies. Go to a Museum or watch the discovery channel. Cavemen were not hulking gorilla-like humanoids. They were small, probably undernourished men who lived only into their twenties.
Astronauts are some of the fittest and best trained guys around.
Buzz Aldrin (at 70) punched out an annoying a-hole!**
Um, no, you’re the one who has it wrong. Pick up a book instead of watching TV all the time. It was a hard world, and that’s why they lived into their twenties. In that hard world, they had to be tough to survive and thus lead to the human race. It is a fact they were stronger, and better adapted to live in that world. Brain power in the end DID help establish human dominance of course. Better weapons win the war. Even a Cro Magnon or early human would still win against an astronaut, I bet. It’s ridiculous to think otherwise.
Okay, 3’s my limit when “debating” on the web.
And you know this how? All merely conjecture. Cavemen may have been sun-bums for all we really know.
Even though I have no idea what you’re talking about, I’d go with astronauts, simply because the cavemen would be taken aback. “Whoa, clean white cloth? One giant eye? Nothing tasty showing, better worship instead.”
Um, no, you’re the one who has it wrong. Pick up a book instead of watching TV all the time. It was a hard world, and that’s why they lived into their twenties. In that hard world, they had to be tough to survive and thus lead to the human race. It is a fact they were stronger, and better adapted to live in that world.
Who are we talking about here? Cro Magnon man? Neanderthal man? Or some earlier homind? Neanderthal MIGHT be stronger (but not by much), but they certainly were not larger. Modern man is LARGER than earlier hominids like homo erectus and homo habilis. And Cro Magnon is essentially modern homo sapiens, but subject to poorer nutrition as an adult and as a child, which would result in smaller, weaker bodies.
The only CLOSE matchup would be Neanderthals, but the astronaut would win easily here because of tactics and fighting skills…strength difference is not nearly enough to offset superior technique.
Astronauts 99%
Did you ever consider, that the cavemen are about a foot and a half smaller than the astronauts and most likely every other year in their lives they suffered from malnutrition, whereas the astronauts have been well-fed during all their lives and are in excellent physical condition due to their daily training?
I am positive the astronauts are physically stronger.
The interesting question is, however, who’d make it if they didn’t fight… The cavemen know all about survival in hostile terrain whereas the astronaut probably doesn’t have a clue about how to farm, let alone build a spaceship…
Think about it 😉
Does anyone out there remember the sitcom ‘Its about Time ‘ with 2 astronauts and a village of cavemen & women. If so I would love to hear from you and whether it is possible to buy or at least track down. Thankyou C.