FALLEN ANGEL #8–WHAD’JA THINK

Posted By: Peter DavidPosted On:

Probably the most intense single issue of a comic I’ve ever written. Designed to completely screw with reader perceptions by making them sympathize with Black Mariah (kidnapper, blackmailer, and murderer) and be appalled by the Fallen Angel (our heroine who has saved the city, destroyed a demon, and blown up a ship filled with drugs). What in God’s name could possibly have happened to the Angel to make her so…souless? That’s revealed next month, but for now…whad’ja think?

PAD

32 comments on “FALLEN ANGEL #8–WHAD’JA THINK”

  2. It appeals to me greatly, on an intellectual level. It’s less so on an emotional level.

    Some of this is that the artwork isn’t QUITE there, in my opinion. Some of this is due to the deliberate mystery placed around the title character. Much of it has to do with the emotional distance the character places around herself; we don’t quite empathize with her yet, as we don’t know the emotional history of the character nor can we project ourselves into her place as of yet.

    On the other hand, I’m still coming back to see if that empathy does develop….

  3. well, i certainly empathized with black mariah. cool name. great look. vampiric powers. and she likes art. what’s not to love? hopefully these supporting characters will begin to really get juicy. i agree with roger tang on both issues: so far lee is cold and one dimensional, and the art is flat. (maybe you should get a new inker if you can’t get a totally new penciller.) all in all, the best issue yet.

  4. Wow. This reminded me of that Babylon 5 episode, “Intersections in Real Time,” where the whole episode is Captain Sheridan being interrogated. I was completely captivated the whole time, and mesmerized, which is even more impressive, considering the whole issue mostly took place in one room. Thank you for writing this awesome series! 😀

  5. It’s still working well enough for me to keep me coming back. I do share the concerns with the art that others have raised, but there’s little to nothing you can do about that, of course.

    The particular events may have had less of an impact on me than you’d planned for the imagined reader, becuase I’ve been comfortable thinking of Lee as being an extraordinarily dark person from the first issue, and have never really felt the need to think of her as a hero (or villian, or anti-hero), but have rather always just regarded her as protagonist. So this issue isn’t much of a shock or eye-opener for me regarding aspects of her character, as I’ve always allowed the possbility that she’s capable of all this….and worse. (What makes an angel fallen, anyway? It’s not just having a bad ‘tude…)

    I like the way things are bubbling at this stage–there’s definately a sense that tensions are rising, components are clicking into place, and gears are being found–that’s the same feeling all of your great arcs on various titles in the past (notable HULK, YJ, SUPERGIRL, and AQUAMAN) have had, so I’m looking forward to the next four issues or so a great deal.

  6. I like how, thus far, the arc has been telling the reverse Secret Origin of Lee. I think the original “Lee shows up in town, fights Black Mariah, gets girl back, sets herself up as the Hero,” would have been kind of bland. Juxtaposing the two times (while yes, a little confusing on my first read of #7, but clearer once I actually read with both my eyes and my brain) gives the story a lot more depth.

    I agree with George that while it is a twist to have the main character get medieval (literally?) on someone in such a manner, at this point I almost expected it from Lee. Then again, like Captain Calhoun, she’s delightfully unpredictable.

    It was interesting to see her go to such lengths for something that we, as readers, haven’t been introduced to or really given a reason to care about. All we really have is “I want the Shard, because of what happened with that Nun.” Usually when these “pushed to horrible extremes” type stories are done, it’s out of desperation on the main characters part, a “I don’t want to but I have to” deal. With Lee, she definitely seems to enjoy it, and that makes her interesting, in a “what will she do next, what kind of ramifications will a thing like this have?” kind of way.

    While I found Black Mariah to be piteous, and was surprised at her escape, I’m glad Lee didn’t help her, forcing the standard and boring “I don’t like you, but you are a person in need and that’s my job blah blah blah.”

    Good stuff, all around.

  7. Ah, what’s not to like about a little friendly torture? Seriously…while I wouldn’t go so far as to agree with Black Mariah about it being foreplay, there certainly was an almost chummish air about the torturing. Girls’ Night Out, with red hot strip poker.

    Oddly, this wasn’t the darkest comic I read this week. Might not even be the second darkest, although 13th of Never was almost whimsical in its horror. 🙂

    —Dave, notes that PAD has now conclusively revealed Lee’s true identity. She’s Fenchurch.

  9. to george grattan–

    i love seeing someone use the word “protagonist” correctly! too many people think it means “good guy.”

    to PAD–

    totally digging this book. i love the mystery and ambiguity. very few comics surprise me these days. this one manages to.

    i also think the art is t-riffic!

    keep up the good work!

  10. Sympathize with Mariah? Not really, no. I think I’m with Lee in that it doesn’t change her crimes. She’s certainly a – respectable? worthy? nah, capable, that’s it – oponent since she was able to keep her cool and turn the interrogation around on Lee.

  11. This was the issue where the book really clicked for me. Despite her protestations that she wasn’t a hero, we hadn’t seen enough of her dark side to really buy her own hype. Now we have, and she’s a much richer character for it. The last time I felt a character was so wonderfully morally ambiguous was in the late, lamented series Grimjack (which Fallen Angel is *very* similar in tone to… fans of FA would do themselves a favor to try it!) and there’s little more compliment I can give.

  12. This continues to be one odd comic book. It’s slowly hooked me, but I still can’t say why, eight issues in. Is it the characters? Maybe, though I still can’t say I care much for (or about) Lee. The rest, though, depsite being a pack of reprobates, scoundrels and worse, is fascinating.

    Is it the plots? Maybe, but as I’m not sure where this whole tale is going, maybe not.

    So what is it? I honestly don’t know. But you’re going to keep getting my money as long as the art, the scripts, the pacing of the tales, and the surprises keep coming.

  13. Strangest darn thing, when I picked up FA #8 yesterday, I also picked up Teen Titans #8 “Reintroducing Raven.”

    In once scene Angela goes into a “church” and meets a red headed woman, Tala, who wears a robe with a hood and has a friend named Buzz.

    Naaaah.

  16. I agree with some of the comments. I love the series so far but I cant see the road ahead for the life of me. I’ve been reading enough PAD though to trust him enough to not let me and the rest of his readers down. I didn’t really feel bad for Black Mariah though PAD, and I didn’t question Angel’s actions either. This is a book that is definately full of grey areas and the actions of these people make it seem all the more real. The world isn’t black and white so maybe this is why I am so hooked. There are no easy answers and sometimes we make the right or wrong decisions and we have to live with those decisions. I hope thats where you are going with this series. Dealing with the repurcussions good or bad will make me stay tuned. Plus the fact that you have littered the book with so many mysterious characters I wonder and wonder if i want to know if you will let us in on who they “really” are. BID, great issue on all points. Hope the team keeps up the awesome quality and hope you guys stick around for the long haul, I know I am.

  17. Off topic (possibly)..

    Did you see the latest issue of the Teen Titans? They were retelling Raven’s origin. There’s a scene with her mother being prepared for Trigon by some cultists. They called one of the cultists by name, “Buzz”

  18. Picked up issues seven and eight at my Faithful Local Comic Shop today. I’d not read it before, but I remembered you mentioning seven was a good jumping-on point.

    It took me two reads through to keep past and present straight. However, had I read the first six issues, I don’t think that would have been a problem. Overall, I find myself interested in Lee without really knowing why.

    It’s enough to make me want to go back and pick up the first six, or the trade paperback (is there a planned date for that yet?) which is the only criteria I have for whether a book is Good or not. If I want more, it’s good, and Fallen Angel is definitely good. I’ll be adding it to my pull list at the shop.

  19. Great Read! Lee has always come off as being tough, but this issue showed me that she is really a bad ášš. I normally don’t associate my hero types with torture and this issue certainly screwed with my perceptions!

    Is torture ever right? Was Lee justified in this case? Should we have felt sorry for Black Mariah?

    FA and CM were both great issues this month. Keep up the great work PAD!

  21. I remain uncertain about “Fallen Angel.” On the one hand, I remain interested enough to keep the title on my pull list and to read it when it comes out. On the other hand, I don’t really give it much thought between issues. I don’t have that “I wonder what’s going to happen next” mentality. On the other hand, that’s true of most of the comics I read right now– all of them good– so it’s probably just a matter of my being busy and focusing on other things between reading consecutive issues of a title.

    As to issue 8 specifically, I’m mildly curious to learn what shaped Lee’s character that would lead her to use torture, and where this decision will take her character’s arc. If she crosses whatever line she’s drawn for herself, will she be able to cross back, or like Londo Mollari, will she take a fatalistic attitude that she is on a particular path from which there is no turning back.

    As to the rumor of the cancellation of Angel (the TV series) it’s curious that while the message in this thread said the show is being cancelled, the link led to a statement that the undersigned supporters understand no decision has been made. So, either it has been cancelled or it might be. Which is it?

    As to the petition itself, I frankly feel that online petitions aren’t very effective. The WB would essentially be getting one EMail with several signatures. Even if it’s several hundred signatures, it’s just one EMail. And it doesn’t take much effort to add your signature to the bottom of an online petition. I think the network, the studios, Mutant Enemy and whomever else would make the final decision about cancellation would be more impressed by a “save Angel” campaign if they received letters of support via regular mail. It would show that those who wrote were interested enough to take the time to sit down, write a letter, address it, put a stamp on it, and mail it.

    I know that if I were a network executive I’d probably pay more attention to thousands of individually written, addressed and stamped letters than to one EMail with thousands of signatures. Just food for thought.

    Rick

  23. violence is cool. Torture is cool. I like me gore and distrubing stuff. Angel having a butt when Black Mariah was gasping for breath in the chair was awesome. I didn’t really sympathize with Black Mariah but that’s only because I’m a sadistic sonofvabitch. And I dig anti-heroes. And Lee is a great one.

  25. I’m rapidly running out of good things to say about this series without having to repeat myself.

    Personally, I don’t care that I have no idea where the series is going. That’s all part of the fun for me. And I really like that PAD is daring enough to completely mess with his readers’ heads where the conventional lines of “good” and “evil” are concerned.

    Keep turning out stories like this, and I’ll happily keep reading.

  26. “Fallen Angel” is holding my interest, more now than the last story arc. With PAD’s stated goals, I’d say it was half-successful.

    I did feel sorry for Black Mariah. Not because of the torture, but because of the hold what’s-his-name has over her. For an independent woman like Mariah, someone having that kind of power over her would be worse than death. It was compelling. (And at first, when Mariah stabbed herself, I thought she was committing suicide. I thought, “Aw hëll. There goes my favorite character.”) She’s a worthy opponent for Lee, and I hope she sticks around.

    But disliking Lee? Wondering what happened to her in the past? Nah. I wasn’t really affected by the torture. Frankly, she’s been unrelentingly cold throughout the series, so this didn’t seem like a big step for her.

    You know what might be a surprise? If it turns out… nothing happened to Lee to make her the way she is. Yeah, we’ve all seen people, villains and not, who were formed by traumatic experience. Then there’s people who were just born that way. How much worse would it be to know that there isn’t a childhood trauma or murdered lover to blame for being the way you are?

    Anyway. Still reading. 🙂

  27. Actually, Johanna, you absolutely nailed something in your review that you probably consider part of the “bigger concerns.” If I may quote:

    “The overall feeling I have after reading this issue is a vague uncertainty. The characters are shadows and their motivations slippery. Readers may be looking elsewhere because they seek more definitive reactions from their four-color entertainment.”

    Not only would that not surprise me, but I would agree. “Fallen Angel” is modeled in many respects upon that paragon of ambiguity, “Casblanca.” Consider that film: Sixty years later, we still don’t know why Rick really left America or wound up in Casablanca. We don’t know whether Ilsa really loved Rick or was just playing him in order to get the papers. Was Louis kidding when he said, “Rick is the sort of man who, if I was a woman, I would be in love with Rick,” or was there really a homoerotic subtext as he goes off with Rick into the night at the end? The only person in “Casablanca” who is neither shadowy nor slippery is Victor, which is why he’s the least interesting guy in the film.

    Times change. The author of one of the definitive “Casablanca” books stated that if the movie were being made today, the studio would have had all the ambiguity removed by the second draft. Many people get confused and fidgety if everything isn’t spelled out. I knew going in that “Fallen Angel” wouldn’t be for everybody. The only question was whether there would be enough somebodies to support it, which I’m still waiting to find out.

    I’m hoping that maybe there will be room and interest for a series that demands readers question the morality of all concerned and come to terms with the fact that there are no easy answers in this world, no matter how much some people wished that weren’t the case.

    The whole point of the series is to twist readers’ allegiances around. I wanted them appalled by the Angel in this issue so that I could then stand their emotions on their ears over the next three…most especially #9.

    PAD

  28. Well PAD,

    I really enjoyed this issue. I think my favorite item was the fact that Black Mariah took her lover based on the fact that he was immune to her power. Love hurts. Lee is becoming a bit two dimensional (I have to agree with an earlier comment) but I still love the book and I can’t wait to see what happens next with Mariah and Lee.

    Regards:

    Warren S. Jones III

  29. I am loving this series, and it’s one of the things I look forward to most each month. I thought about subscribing, but this is not offered on the list of subscriptions on the DCcomics homepage.

    The main reason I am posting though, is because I LOVE the art, and I haven’t seen anyone say much about it that is positive. I’ve felt from very early on that I will be very sad when, inevitably, anyone else handles the art chores, even if it’s just for an issue.

    Having said that, I’d like to recommend someone get Peter Snejbjerg’s phone number for that inevitable fill in. I think he would do a great job.

  30. After following Supergirl through it’s entire run (it was the only DC book I bought regularly) and reading New Frontier, etc…. I had to check out Fallen Angel.

    At first, it was all about the possible Linda/Fallen Angel connection… but now I am just enamored with Fallen Angel.

    Overall, I have to say I found #8 to be probably one of the most disturbing issues of the series, but also one of the most fascinating and exciting ones as well.

    I really enjoyed the more self-contained stories, so I was a bit sad when we started getting into the multi-part ones… I was afraid we’d get into expanded story-telling mode and there would be lots of filler. I really should know better. 🙂

    I’ve liked the story so far, and the book actually keeps me intrigued and EXCITED about reading the next book.

    I think the thing I like the best is that I never quite know what to expect from the characters. It’s one of the reasons I enjoy (the TV show) Alias so much.

    It was a very interesting turnabout – having Black Mariah become the focus of the readers sympahty in a way. I love the scenes where Black Mariah questions Lee’s heroism.

    Thankfully, Lee operates on a system of internal logic that we are slowly beginning to understand (if not neccesarily agree with) and I appreciate that a lot. Too often writers make surprises by having characters act in ways that are out of character. Lee may cross the line in this issue, but it still makes sense for the characters she is – partly because there is a lot to know about her and partly because it’s consistent with what we’ve seen before.

    There is an interesting experience as a Supergirl reader when reading the book that I think might be missing for other people…

    I find myself thinking of Lee as Linda still. It’s sort of subconcsious… I don’t neccesarily even think it is the same character anymore, but there’s enough there that I instilled some of Linda into the character. So in this way, the character seems more three-dimensional (as Linda was probably the most three dimensional heroine DC ever had) but it also causes some interesting paradoxes when we see Lee be Lee.

    In some ways, it feels like a similar situation to that of a name actor being cast in a movie. The actor brings with him the baggage of past roles, but then the actor can sometimes use that to play off of expectations and eventually the actor can become the new character and not just the actor playing the character in the viewer’s mind.

    I’m excited about the book! I wonder how it’s doing now? I keep recommending it to everyone.

  31. I really wasn’t into Supergirl, I mean it was called “Supergirl”. But then awhile back I picked up a few copies to do a short superhero spoof, but I read them instead. They where some of the most entertaining comics I’ve ever read. I liked the character of Linda, the most screwed over superhero ever. Then I saw Fallen Angel and figured it was a continuation of the character. (The ‘no comment’ the forward of Many Happy Returns also helped)

    I picked up FA the other day (first 6 issues) and just loved reading it for the wit and action, but mostly for such interesting characters. (I should also point out that my favorite comic is The Punisher.) I’m short on time at this terminal so I’ll end now.

    Anyway, I can’t seem to subscribe to Fallen Angel off of DC’s website. Does anyone know if there is a reason for that?

  32. Fallen Angel #8 was excellent. I wasn’t really surprised by Lee’s actions. I kinda knew she had it in her. I was more surprised by how easy Black Mariah submitted to the Angel’s demands at the end. But then Mariah seems tired or worn out by her particular dilema. Lee’s almost sympathetic response to Mariah’s situation did seem out of place. I know she can feel for others- but she strikes me as really hating Mariah and for good reasons. Great issues- and PAD please don’t ever tone this series down.

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