IT ALL COMES DOWN TO BEATRICE HALL

Posted By: Peter DavidPosted On:

The discussion as to whether I have the right to ban people from this board has been stimulating and, judging by the thread length, exhaustive. Unfortunately, my rights to do so as the one whose name is on the board was never in question; sure, I have THAT right. But I’ve always believed that just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you SHOULD do something.

I was also amused by the people who jumped up and waved their arms, announcing with determination and repeatedly that they were the ones I was talking about when I was referring to people who show up just to cause problems and insult others. It was kind of like “Spartacus,” but without the nobility.

But the buck does stop here, and in my own ruminations, I couldn’t get past the famous phrase that was written–apparently not by Voltaire–but by Beatrice Hall in an essay entitled “Friends of Voltaire” (which was not created to thwart the endeavors of an organization called “Enemies of Voltaire,” but that’s another subject.) Ms. Hall, in summarizing Voltaire, stated that his philosophy was “I disagree with what you have to say, but will defend to the death your right to say it.” Voltaire voiced similar sentiments, but the oft’ quoted wording is Hall’s. No matter how I tried to justify it in my own mind, I couldn’t square that quote with my desire to eliminate the few for the peace of mind of the many (Mr. Spock notwithstanding.)

So I’m not going to ban anybody. I’m not going to shut them up

However, I am not going to open the door for this forum to become a dumping ground for toxicity, either. Moreover, I don’t want people who are reasonable, intelligent individuals to feel they can’t come here because they can’t stand dealing with a handful of disruptive influences.

So here’s what’s going to be. Everyone starts off with a clean slate. Past is past. However, I anticipate there will be more political discussion as this incendiary election year proceeds. Here’s what’s going to be for the future. People have been saying that I should set the ground rules for this place. Here’s the groundrule:

We will be civil to one another.

That’s it.

Now that’s more a guideline than a rule, because I don’t expect perfection. I don’t expect that no one will ever slip up. Me, you, anyone. And I sure don’t need a thread to devolve into, “Hey! You weren’t civil! You violated the groundrule of this board! Get ‘im!” I do expect, though, that everyone is going to try. The simplest way to do that is to focus on what the person says rather than the person himself.

I think one of the best examples of proper comportment was the way my father handled himself a few months back. A whole bunch of opinions were flying about regarding Israel. Many were speaking from ignorance. My father shows up. First thing he does his introduce himself. Gives his full name. Next thing he does his gives his credentials as to why he’s qualified to speak with expertise about the subject. At which point he does so, without insulting others who hold different opinions.

One other thing, for the sake of convenience: At my instruction, Glenn is going to be reversing the order of name-to-post. Until now, the name has been at the bottom of the post, like a signature. No more. Now the name will be at the top. That way, if there’s someone who you just don’t want to deal with, you see his name and know to skip to the next post.

I have thoughts as to what to do if someone becomes exhausitively, relentlessly abusive. But what I’m hoping is that the preferred level of discourse will discourage that ilk from showing up or staying around.

If not, well…there’s other ways.

So that’s what’s gonna be.

PAD

56 comments on “IT ALL COMES DOWN TO BEATRICE HALL”

  1. It just has to be funny that I be one of the first to post.

    I commend PAD’s decision whether or not I was the dolt that started this. I also hope he read my apology.

    I was a jerk for name calling – won’t happen again. We have politicians on the left and the right that don’t have half the righteous passion that most of the posters on this board do. That’s a shame. There’s no correct side and no one should be condemned for which side of the fence they are on.

    If I don’t agree with someone I won’t coin a quick phrase without thinking of the fact that there’s a real person on the other side.

    That was my mistake.

    Sorry PAD.

    Good decision. I pegged you wrong. I’ll stick to de-caff.

    Later,

    Udog

  2. Sounds like a good theory. Unfortunately, that pesky thing called reality has a way of getting in the way of the very best of theories.

    I hope it works. I truly do.

  3. Good job, Peter. Manners and civility is the standard on which we base civilized society. I’m willing to tolerate nearly anything as long as its polite.

    And I congratulate your dad, too. Education is the ultimate cure for ignorance.

  5. Funny. I recall saying something similar this a while ago.

    I said something about being a little put off by the amount of hatred that seemed to be displayed, and my comments about people toning down and being respectful was roundly criticized.

    I’m glad you are asking to keep civility here, PAD, but somehow I doubt it will last too long.

    Never does on blogs and discussion forums. The bravery of the ‘net, I guess. People say things and behave in a way they NEVER would to a person’s face.

  6. I commend you on your decision. This is exactly what I was hoping you would say. A balance between everyones right to speak and everyones right to have a safe civil forum for expression. In a weird way it kinda reminds me what my social studies teacher used to say, “Everybody is guaranteed the freedom of speach, but that does not guarantee you the right to run down the streets with a bullhorn.”

  7. I have this vision of Doug Hutchison from The Green Mile….

    “Ill go away quiet if you let me throw the switch.”

    Very wise decision, especially taking the temperature of the room first. I don’t know how much it means to you, but you have my applause.

  8. Well, as a member of the political minority (on this board at least), I’m glad of the decision.

    Now then, what did everyone think of “Meet the Press” this morning? 🙂

  9. I would like to make a suggestion, PAD. I don’t know how much it would cost, but I think you should add a message board onto your blog here. Mark Millar has something like what I’m talking about over at http://www.millarworld.biz

    You can create different areas for different topics. There can be a Politics Only thread, a Work of PAD thread, etc etc.

    I understand you might be reluctant because you have a message board on AOL, but I’m sure there are a lot of fans – myself included – without AOL who cannot interact with you there anyway.

    Anyone else think PAD should get a message board?

  10. Sounds fair t’me, Mr. David.

    I am gratified in the extreme that you have decided not to jump on the banning bandwagon. I have spent plenty of time trying to explain why I’ll support a neo-nazi’s (no capitol letters because I don’t think they deserve it) right to speak, even though I believe he/she swims in the pool of igorance and comes out wet.This is because of my own self interest. In short, silence them and I’ll dámņ well be next. Kind of a ‘Do unto others’ aproach.

    Thank you Mr. David for your demonstration of thoughtfulness on this metter.

    Salutations,

    Mitch

  11. Anyone else think PAD should get a message board?

    Nah, I think a comment section is quite enough, and has come to be the most appropriate feedback mechanism for weblogs.

  12. Good decision, Peter (funny how we view the internet as such a casual place as to call people we have never met by their first names…).

    It isn’t the one I would have gone with, but you do appear to be a better man than I 🙂

  13. ‘Do unto others as you would have others do unto you’ is pretty much the foundation of fruitful social interaction.

    Suppose it is a sign of the times that it must be set out in print or posited as a rule from time to time, rather than inherently accepted as a given from the get-go.

    Respect your decision and also the opportunity you gave for input.

  14. well i think it can work if everybody here decides to make it work

    im, new here but i think we can chosse our words carefully and still say what we mean

    you made a wise choice PAD

    the rest is up to us

  15. This weblog is great the way it is, so I don’t think we need to turn it into a message board. I am glad you aren’t kicking anyone out. I think it’s usually a good idea to give people a second chance. Sometimes they surprise you. Like UDOG. He admitted he crossed the line and apologized. Whether he was the one being complained about or not, it was certainly the right thing to do and I respect him much more for doing so.

  17. A victory for Wisdom. I commend your decision. The change of “name” before post is an excellent idea.

  18. i second that karen

    i dont think we need a message board either

    eveything is fine the way it is

  20. Peter David: One other thing, for the sake of convenience: At my instruction, Glenn is going to be reversing the order of name-to-post. Until now, the name has been at the bottom of the post, like a signature. No more. Now the name will be at the top.

    Luigi Novi: YES!!!! YES!!! Finally!!!! I had been saying that from the start of this website! Good call, Peter! Now when I’m reading a post, I don’t have to scroll down to see the author, and then back up to continue reading. And there’s even a line separating each post!

    Good call!

  21. Peter, I just knew you were going to come to this conclusion.

    Good job on reversing the id tag too. Perfect way to skip those posters whose opinions I choose not to read.

  22. I hope very much it will work. I most definitely don`t agree with Beatrice Hall`s opinion you quoted. I even consider it to be a potentially dangerous attitude. But this is obviously a good example where it is best to agree to disagree with you and I respect your opinion.

    What I agree with, though, is the new way messages are shown. It is a good idea to show the name first. Also this format is easier to read.

  23. I also don’t think we need a message board, although for a different reason then the others here. Reading and responding to the blog entries take enough time as it is, and I know I couldn’t resist using a message board. I’d never get anything else done. Oh, and good decision with the putting names on top and not banning.

  24. Bravo PAD. That’ll work. I do have to note that I hate the term “troll”. It seems like a genearl term when you want to shut someone down, much like using the term “racist” in a argument with someone of a different background. I’ve only seen this on Sci/Fi and Comic boards, I’ve also seen the term “flamer”, which is weird too.

  25. An excellent compromise. I admire your commitment to both promoting free speech and preventing abustive behavior. I know I often don’t ignore certain people even when I know I should, and this will make it a lot easier. Thanks!

  26. Good sir:

    Perhaps we should all also keep in mind the words of the illustrious Mr. Ellison, when he said: “You keep believing the bûllšhìŧ that you are entitled to your own opinion, when I keep telling you, over and over, that you are only entitled to your informed opinion.”

    Education is a door to a greater world than we know.

    Many thanks for a dinner some twenty years ago!

  27. Thanks, PAD, for taking the best possible path through this mess.

    -That OTHER John Byrne

  28. Well, here’s my long ago continuation of the Hall quote, which is one of my two quotes that made it into the Unix fortunes file;

    I’ll defend to the death your right to say that, but I never said I’d listen to it!

  29. bravo for your decision and I agree with it. I enjoy your threads, wheather they’re political or not. I’m a lurker here and this is my first time to post. BTW enjoy your NF books.

  30. That is why I have no decided to stay away from any of PAD’s political blogs. I will not get into any more politcal fights. and I have also been banned from forums for having my own POV on the subject. So, from here on in, I will no longer get involved with anything remotely to do with politics on PADS vlogs. and he does have the right to ban anyone he wants. cause its his site. and because im not on the left side or Anti-Bush, cause I dont believe in President bashing, and neither am I anti-american, I will no longer join in any of the winded debates on here. 😉

    and believe me, I’ve been tempted.

    cheers.

  32. actually, i plan to stay away from any blogs that have fighting in them. I just enjoying reading and lurking anyway. Trolls come in many forums, they live to pick fights and get rises out of people.

    and from here on in, no more.

  34. A very wise and honorable decision Mr. David. And nice job with the new format for posts. the line and the name at top makes things much easier…

  35. Excellent decision, and precisely what I hoped would be done. I also loved your father’s post back then; there was a gentleman shining through those words.

  37. We will be civil to one another. I think you should have raised one hand in the air and another on your chest and stated “Be excellent to each other.”

  40. I don’t think we can left justify at this point. But I am sure Glenn will read your suggestion.

  43. Bravo. We cannot understand each other if we do not truly know what lurks in each others hearts and minds and understanding is the key to our collective survival.

    I would be remiss if I did not comment on one of my personal bug-a-boos – the so-called Golden Rule (do unto others…). As I understand it, this is a distortion of the original rule “Do not unto others as you would not have them do unto you”. This is a much greater difference than it would seem at first glance. The former justifies proselytizing and all the evils therein (I know he worships such and such a god but for his own good, I will convert him to my god, even if I have to kill him to save his soul) type of thinking. I think the original version more closely reflects our true needs (Thanks for the offer but I’m fine).

    I will continue to look forward eagerly to the contents of this forum. We can never have too much debate. (And to those who cling desperately and inflexibly to whichever -ism you espouse, try listening to the other guy now and again. No one philosophy has the answers to all of humanities problems).

    The Rev (From the Ashes)

  44. Interestingly, in my comparative religions class, I learned that all major religions have some form of the golden rule. I guess the true meaning transcends most of our differences.

  45. I guess the true meaning transcends most of our differences.

    And yet our differences still get preferential treatment. That’s Idealism and Realism, side by side yet miles apart.

    Love the new format, PAD, and bravo for the guidelines.

  46. CAPTAIN MARVEL #19

    Whatever you like to do is fine with me. Being civil is easy, for me anyway. So, lets talk about CAPTAIN MARVEL #19! I really enjoyed it and the artwork is fantastic.

    To think I was considering dropping the book, not because of the stories, but because of the $2.99 price tag. Oh well, with X-treme X-Men going the way of the DoDo in a few months, it’ll be $3 dollars less that I have to worry about.

    I was also wondering if Fallen Angel cracks the 100 list of comics ordered. According to WIZARD issue #149, I did not see FA on the Top 100 for the month of November, I did see CM at #93. If FA continues to be out of the TOP 100, will it mean that DC will cancel the series? I hope not.

  47. Well, you made the right decision, Mr. David. And,sadly, about 10 minutes after you make your next political commentary it will come back to bite you in the ášš.

    Be civil to each other? You must be joking. With people like Eminem huge music stars, the dearth of reality shows on TV, and irrational hatred of those who are different, I think civility is dead. And I don’t see it coming back.

  48. To Tom Keller,

    Mr. Keller while I agree with your projected probability that this forum will degrade after the first political post, I feel that I must disagree with your statement that civility is dead. Regardless of the slew of objectional material that is often thrown at us in various media it is my belief (and I may be wrong. For references ask any woman I’ve dated) that civility dies only when we all give up on it. If only you and I were to hold ourselves up to the standard of civility then we are leaders in a veritable sea of followers. That’s not in reference to this board by any means. Rather it is in reference to society at large.

    Salutations,

    Mitch: Misanthrope Extrordinair

  50. How exactly do you ban someone on this type of forum?

    Kidding right? Very easily. Just because its a blog that doesn’t mean your computer IP addresses and whatever else the cookie stores isn’t there. What makes you think because its a blog PAD can’t ban you??? People should know by now you are recorded on the web. PAD can do anything he wants with his site. Hes the admin. He has the power. As a admin you can take the IP if this blog has the ability and ban you just like any other website. heh. No too difficult to do. Just because you can put in a fake email and or name doesn’t make you a anon.

Comments are closed.