When I first got involved with the internet nearly twenty years ago, and the presence of pros was a rarity, my showing up was seen by many fans as an unwanted intrusion. My being there, it was stated, would have a chilling effect. Many were only comfortable discussing a creator’s work behind his back, and were truly upset with the idea of a creator responding.
In many ways, that hasn’t changed. The exchange of ideas and concerns is still only to be one way: Fans to creators. If fans insult creators, that’s SOP; if creators insult fans, Oh my God, so-and-so was mean to me, where does he get off? Fans are perfectly entitled to crab about anything and everything that bothers them: Story, characterization, page count, characters who were killed off twenty years ago, a pro looked at them sideways at a convention…anything. On the other hand, if a pro expresses concerns directly pertaining to the business of comics…wotta jerk. Unless, of course, he or she is one of those pros who has an unerring knack of phrasing things just right or saying what people want to hear. Would that I were one of those.
Nowhere was this more driven home to me than in the now far-ranging discussion regarding “waiting for trades.”
I’ve taken a position that was prompted by the launch of “Fallen Angel,” in which a sizable number of people told me, “Loved the first issue, and will be sure to pick it up as a trade.” And a number of retailers told me that, more and more, fans are using first issues of new series (particularly wholly original series as opposed to mutant, Spider, Bat, or Super-related titles) to determine—not whether they’ll support the series–but whether they’ll buy it as a trade. All the praise, all the positive reviews on everything from theFourthrail.com to Aintitcoolnews.com…to many fans, it simply served as a heads-up for a trade to watch out for.
In being told this, I’ve declared in a variety of places that this is yet another hurdle in launching new “unaligned” series. That if enough fans decline to support a new series based on the assumption of a trade, that there will be no trade and no ongoing series. That when this was pointed out to fans, many of them stated it wasn’t their problem and they didn’t care. That comics publishers might want to follow the model of book publishers and wait a year to collect a series (since, I figured, how many people would buy hardcovers if the paperbacks were coming out three months later). That if fans want to help ensure the survival of new series, they should consider buying monthlies.
Since then I’ve been barraged by arguments from fans who seem intent–not on denying that they don’t care, because they admit they don’t–but instead explaining WHY they don’t care. I’ve been called an idiot, a jáçkášš, etc. And there are some who endeavor to dismiss my entire concern because it’s ostensibly born from self-interest.
To which I can only respond: Yes, of COURSE it’s born from self-interest. Does anyone have a PROBLEM with that? What, when hundreds of fans bìŧçh that Hal Jordan should be reinstated as Green Lantern, that’s inspired by altruism and concern for the commonweal? Why should my interests be one iota different than that of the audience? They’re watching out for their concerns, and I am for mine.
I love writing monthly books that are off the beaten path. If there’s new, rising impediments to that and I wasn’t concerned about it, I’d be every bit the fool that people characterize me for being because I AM concerned about it.
When fans express concerns about comics, I try to answer them. Fans complain about rising prices; I put my neck on the line to try and keep the price of “Captain Marvel” as long as I could. Fans complained about overlong, complicated story arcs on “Supergirl.” I answered back with “Many Happy Returns,” which turned around sales (not that it mattered.) Fans complained about new series that you need to buy six issues in order to get a story. I launched “Fallen Angel” with a couple of done-in-one stories. When the response is, “Thanks for doing that, loved it, see you in six months maybe”…excuse the hëll out of me for getting frustrated.
I never said it would destroy the industry. It won’t. I never said people didn’t have a right to buy comics in whatever format they wanted. They do. I never said people had an obligation to support monthly titles. They don’t. But boy, you sure wouldn’t know it from the level of responses my comments received.
But just to stave off the possible responses: For all those people who feel they must, must, MUST explain to me yet again, ad nauseam, why, precisely, they don’t care…
I think I should be entitled to not care why you don’t care. It doesn’t change the concept, made clear by both fans and retailers, that mid-list monthlies have yet more odds stacked against them. Care about it, don’t care about it, it’s up to you. Bottom line, I totally get that it’s not your problem; I openly acknowledge that it’s mine. Except, unlike the instances cited above, it’s not one I have a ready answer to (unless you count the “Fallen Angel” trade paperback this summer.) I certainly wish I did, especially one I could give those fans whose support of monthly titles help provide the trade paperbacks…aside from saying, Thanks, guys. I appreciate it.
PAD
• 
Ah — shazzbat!
That should, of course, read ‘deny’ rather than ‘dent.’
One possible to solution to the “pamphlets” vs. trades problem is to meet halfway.
Publish less titles, but add alot of pages and extras. Maybe use a sturdier stock like TPBs. Titles like “Fallen Angel”, which obviously wouldn’t support their own title under such a system, would be part of anthology titles.
Fans complained about new series that you need to buy six issues in order to get a story. I launched “Fallen Angel” with a couple of done-in-one stories. When the response is, “Thanks for doing that, loved it, see you in six months maybe”…excuse the hëll out of me for getting frustrated.
For me at least, I see no problem at all with the above scenario. The readers said they liked it. They just didn’t like it enough to bother with the monthly. My pull list of monthly titles now consists solely of titles that I enjoy above and beyond all other titles and literally can’t wait for (Promethea, Astro City, Losers, Planetary, Age of Bronze, Powers, etc.) AND titles that I enjoy moderately and know are in sales trouble … books that aren’t the best out there but that I do want to see stick around. These would include books like Fallen Angel, Captain Marvel, Spider-Girl, Christopher Priest books, Noble Causes, CrossGen books, etc.
I don’t see how it is in any way the reader’s fault that they didn’t enjoy a certain book enough to make it onto their must-read list.
I never said people had an obligation to support monthly titles. They don’t. But boy, you sure wouldn’t know it from the level of responses my comments received.
But with statements like: “That if fans want to help ensure the survival of new series, they should consider buying monthlies.” you are saying that fans have an obligation to support any book they like. There is a distinct difference between book that I really, really like and books that I just like in a general way. I enjoy JSA, but not enough to bother with seeking it out every month. Fallen Angel is really in the same category, but since I know that it is in financial difficulty, I also buy the monthly.
It seems to me that there needs to be some way to communicate the intentions of the fans you speak of to the people who actually make the decisions about whether a certain book is collected or not. Telling that to you is pretty useless, imo. The editor or the collections editor would probably be the people that need that kind of input (if those fans knew who they were).
As you know from knowing me for the past 20-odd years Peter, I have always been a strong advocate for monthly comics.
A while back a controversy arose on IcV2 where a retailer posted his opinions on the future of the industry or in other words the “death of the pamphlet”. Firstly, the term “pamphlet” really rankles me, because it’s “comic book format”. Who came up with the pamphlet term to describe comic books I don’t know, but I’d like to find him/her/it and set them straight. Anyways, I took that posted piece and dissected it paragraph by paragraph, barring no holds and injecting as much sarcasm as I felt would be bearable. They didn’t post it.
The article had to do with the current influx of Japanese Manga titles and how they portend the future of the medium in both format and content. This then expanded to include the influence of North American trades. For example, the writer stated that collectors could store their books much more pleasingly on shelves instead of having to use boring white comic boxes. I countered that a quick trip to Ikea should yield some very pretty colored storage boxes. Another argument: the trade and pocket manga formats allow him to display his books on end, thereby saving space and allowing more product, to which I replied that he could then close his store, open a 200-square foot kiosk somewhere ringed by bookshelves with one aisle split by a single display and save tons of rent. You get the gist.
The most annoying comment though was that trades are more economical. This one really got to me. Yep, they sure are…mainly for publishers because they can save bundles of cash by printing extra signatures and binding them when the time was right. If anyone thinks that they are saving by buying a trade, consider my two favorite examples: 1.) Exiles vol. 2 from Marvel saves the reader ONE WHOLE CENT over the monthly cost of the separate issues, plus the reader would get separate covers not shown in the trade, plus he or she would not have to wait 9 months for a book to come out, and 2.) The small manga format is so popular with publishers, why? Because they can print the things for a very small cost compared to the (usual) $9.95 cover tag on each of those things!
There are other arguments against trades and anthologies being the only format we should embrace as the future of the industry. For example, the monthly, weekly, daily, hourly if you wish, anthology has never been successful in American comics. It’s been tried many many times in full color with the likes of Action Weekly, Superman Family, et al and several Marvel books all at attractive price points. The example of Shonen Jump is cited as a contradiction to this. Meantime the recent trend is a severe DROP in SJ sales unless they put a special CD bonus or somesuch into the book. Folks over here just don’t like to pay for something they don’t want to read even if it surrounds something they DO want.
My firm belief is that this trend will at some point blow itself to bits as was the case with the multiple cover fads of the early 90s, but it will do so much quicker if only for the reason that it’s one thing to budget for 10 or 15 comic books per week whereas it’s quite another to budget for some 10 to 15 Manga or other trades per week (and yes, they’re already coming out that fast and promising to increase throughout this year!). The market just can’t sustain that level, and many independent comic book specialty retailers do not have the available financial resources to be able to risk the necessary depth of inventory investment required to stock everything.
But here is my most impassioned argument: What sets our market apart from all others? What makes independent comic specialty stores unique? It’s the weekly release of new products that embrace monthly or other relatively dependable schedules, thereby keeping readers (and therefore customers) coming back regularly week after week, month after month. If those comic books disappear in favor of trades or these other formats, then all comic book specialty stores in effect become “just another independent bookstore”, and we know what’s been happening to those as the chains and mass marketers have continued to infiltrate the marketplace.
So everyone better DARN WELL DO THEIR PART so that the comic book format survives. Otherwise there will be many of us, pros and fans alike who’ll be writing “woulda coulda shoulda” letters bemoaning the fates of those stores as well as this entire industry, and that may be sooner than anyone thinks.
For what it’s worth, DC used to have a rule against reprinting any story less than five years old. Taking your points into account, I’d say that rule suddenly seems to make a lot more sense. Think we’d get DC to go along?
This would single-handedly kill any interest I had in almost all of DC’s ongoing titles. Such a move designed solely to pìšš øff me as a reader who prefers the collected book as a format would engender nothing but scorn for that company.
One possible to solution to the “pamphlets” vs. trades problem is to meet halfway. Publish less titles, but add alot of pages and extras. Maybe use a sturdier stock like TPBs. Titles like “Fallen Angel”, which obviously wouldn’t support their own title under such a system, would be part of anthology titles.
This, likewise would kill any interest I had in Fallen Angel. It would probably kill interest in some books that I was very interested in too. Such a larger anthology book would of course cost more than just the regular book. If I only actually wanted to read one series represented in said anthology, I would be paying more for the same amount of enjoyment. It’s bad enough when publisher’s decide to raise prices. It would be worse to be forced to actively spend money on something I was not interested in. The result would just be for me not to be forced to buy it anymore, i.e. I’d stop getting the anthology despite liking one book collected therein.
Hey many of us on here love communicating with the creators of the books we read. I love hearing what you all have to say on the different books and the problems that were run into during the creative processes. Most people i talk to seem to agree but then again, these are people who do hang around the creators various message boards…
As far as trades vs singles…
Its a thing i’ve ranted about alot on other boards, having watched many of my favorite series be cut and/or cancelled from production because people were assuming it all would be collected into a trade. That if they didn’t support the series during their run nothing amiss would happen.
Since i’m a regular on ComiX-Fan’s Krueger X board take this example..
Paradise X had to be fought for by the fans not to loose the two final issues in the entirety because most readers of the series weren’t willing to pick up the books monthly because they assumed everyone else would support it and they could get the trade. (granted all the Earth X books do read better as a whole, such as in a trade, they still do work in single issues…) Only a letter writing campaign saved us but we still had to have the last two issues (the climax building for about 4 years) cut in half. Buyers who have intrest should show their interest and not rely on the unknown dependability of strangers to ensure the series produces a trade.
The example of Shonen Jump is cited as a contradiction to this. Meantime the recent trend is a severe DROP in SJ sales unless they put a special CD bonus or somesuch into the book.
SJ sells over 300,000 copies with a low level of returns when it doesn’t have a giveaway, and over 500,000 when it does. Lying really doesn’t help your arguement, you know.
So everyone better DARN WELL DO THEIR PART so that the comic book format survives. Otherwise there will be many of us, pros and fans alike who’ll be writing “woulda coulda shoulda” letters bemoaning the fates of those stores as well as this entire industry, and that may be sooner than anyone thinks.
And here comes the guilt trip again!
The insanely expensive monthly pamphlet is like a dinosaur looking up and thinking, “Hey what’s that big rock falling out of the sky?” And the sooner it becomes extinct, the better.
As of Jan 1st this year I no longer waste any of my hard earned money on the things, and if that means that I miss out on the occasional good series here and there, so what? There are a hëll of a lot more important things to worry about in this world.
Isn;t this like saying..I think it is gonna be a good movie…but I aint gonna pay money to see it, I will wait for the sequel. At that point the sequel is never made for lack of sales. Or saying..I like Dark Angel, but am never home on Friday’s, so I will wait for the boxed set. If the ratings suck..no box set will exsist. Just a thought. If you dont buy the comics, the comics go away.
Waiting a minimum of 6 months after the last regular issue containing the story is released before publishing the trade.
Having occasional ‘done in one’ stories that are NOT included in the trades that collect story arcs.
Putting a premium on the price of the trades, so that the single issue total cost is actually lower than the trade price.
Having a double-tiered pricing system on trades – one attractive price for the hobby market, and a higher price for the bookstore (newsstand) market. This is something Marvel is currently doing with some of their regular comics series ($2.25 at shops, $2.99 on the stands).
The only thing taking actions like these would guarantee, would be that I would never buy anything from any publisher that acted in this fashion again.
One problem not mentioned yet is that, while the trades may (or may not) expose a wider audience to comics, they do allow for a significant slice of the business to be taken AWAY from traditional comic shops. Having the trades (often at discount) in bookstores, Amazon, etc., means some of those sales are cannibalized from potential shop sales.
So what? As a customer my only concern is getting what I want, at the cheapest possible price.
Part of the problem is also that the ‘thrill of the hunt’ we old-timers remember has been subsumed by the instant gratification that the ‘net and the trades permit – some folks just want all the issues they are missing ‘now’ and aren’t happy about getting some they may have missed from shop A and others from shop B.
Another part is either ignorance or laziness on the part of some customers at some comics shops.
Thank you for a couple of great examples of why most comic book stores deserve to go out of business. Your job is to give the customer what they want, not what you want them to have.
And just out of curiosity, can anyone out there think of another retail industry that treats its customers with as much contempt, as the comic book selling business does?
How many of us have been in comic book stores run by people who treat customers as an inconvenience at best and (especially if they’re women or children) as an outright affront.
How many of us have been in comic book stores run by people who will proudly proclaim their refusal to stock a particular title because they don’t like the creators involved? Or try to dissuade people from buying something that they actually do have in stock? Or hold back copies of a highly anticipated comic so that they can sell them at inflated prices a couple of weeks later.
(quote)The only thing taking actions like these would guarantee, would be that I would never buy anything from any publisher that acted in this fashion again.(unquote)
Then I must perforce assume you no longer buy Marvel comics.
Businesses offering bulk discounts or senior citizen savings must, sadly, also be avoided by such a blanket boycott of tiered pricing structures.
While you (or any customer) is absolutely under no obligation of any kind to support any shop, so too the shop must take into account that there are those who will forego some purchases at the brick-and-mortar store when the same item is offered for less elsewhere, and adjust orders accordingly.
(quote)Thank you for a couple of great examples of why most comic book stores deserve to go out of business. Your job is to give the customer what they want, not what you want them to have.(unquote)
No major disagreement with your final sentence.
Your taking one sentence in my message out of context (go back and read the entire paragraph) is uncalled for. Comics selling has become a 2-way street – with roughly 4000 items listed in each month’s Previews, input to the shop owner can only help both the customer and the shop.
My words were strong, but not inaccurate. Note the use of the modifier ‘some’ used repeatedly in the original. Like it or not, the reality is that some customers are ill-mannered at the least, and abrasive or anti-social at the worst. They deserve, of course, the same services as all customers, but their behavior and attitude need not go unacknowledged.
The retailer’s job is to sell items at a level that ensures continued operations. Period.
Lacking input from the customer(s) as to what it is they want, we retailers are forced to rely on trends, hearsay and gut intuition. Please remember that what comics shops do not sell, they must eat, unlike Borders, Walden’s, etc. Overordering will put a shop out of business faster than you can say Kltpzyxm. I mention this not to whine or complain, but just to state the strictures of the market.
Offering holds or time payments is an additional customer service courtesy, and I frankly fail to see how anyone can interpret it as a negative.
‘Most comics shops’ is pretty harsh – wishing ill fortune to befall an industry, even if disagreements exist with a sector of those so involved in the vocation, smacks of voodoo.
(quote)How many of us have been in comic book stores run by people who treat customers as an inconvenience at best and (especially if they’re women or children) as an outright affront.
How many of us have been in comic book stores run by people who will proudly proclaim their refusal to stock a particular title because they don’t like the creators involved? Or try to dissuade people from buying something that they actually do have in stock? Or hold back copies of a highly anticipated comic so that they can sell them at inflated prices a couple of weeks later. (unquote)
While such shops no doubt exist, all I can say is that my own is not among them, and I have never – not once – engaged in any of the practices mentioned, and take extreme umbrage at being accused, even passingly, of doing so. Those who may engage in such practices are deserving of scorn, but broadbrushing the entire gamut of shops with such asertions is just plain rude.
Nearly a quarter century in business, with a coterie of satisfied customers (including some who maintain a significant chunk of their business with us via mail, rather than through their current local shop), of all ages and genders, is sufficient reward, thank you very much.
If your own local shop doesn’t pass muster, you certainly have my commiseration. But that is something that needs to be taken up between you and them.
Never have understood the legend about females and comics shops. Females represent (and have always done so, since shop inception) between 35% and 55% of our business.
Don’t want to use PAD’s blog to get into a shouting match or a back-and-forth on this, especially not on a personal level, but did feel a reply to the accusations tendered was warranted in this instance.
Okay, I’ve obviously been living in a cave.
I didn’t even realize there were people out there who had the mentality of “waiting for the Trade”. Maybe it comes from the fact that I started collecting long before there was such a thing as trade paperbacks. Maybe it comes from an ignorance of comics (with the exception of Sandman) that collect the entire run in various trades. Obviously they must be out there, but I was unaware of them.
Maybe I have at least a partial solution to both the “waiting for the trade” issue and the pricing issue.
Does anyone remember the Death of Captian Marvel (Fortunately, not Mr. David’s version)? This was a major story which was created in a stand-alone format.
Compare that with the monthlies these days. You’ve got stories and story arc that span a few months. Well, that’s to be expected. After all, comics are essentially chapter plays.
You also have the “Major Cross-over Events” where one has to buy the title they normally buy, plus up to 5 or 6 other titles for as long as 3 months in order to get the whole story. Pluse, for some of them, you also have to buy the “bookend” issues. DC is famous for this trick.
So here’s my idea: leave the monthlies as monthlies. Collect them a few years later if there is sufficient demand. Take these giant crossover events and make them graphic novels, rather than cross-overs. Then it doesn’t interrupt the flow of the story, the fans have a reason to collect the monthlies, the paperback versions are made of entirely new material that the collectors of the monthlies can take or leave as they see fit, the price drops because people become less fed up with “events” and if fans buy the paperback “events” they will run into characters that they may not have realized they like.
And as for the use of “commonweal”…
Mr. David, you are a writer. Use whatever words you like. If you can get at least one person to crack a dictionary to look up a meaning, then you’re going above and beyond the call of duty.
But with statements like: “That if fans want to help ensure the survival of new series, they should consider buying monthlies.” you are saying that fans have an obligation to support any book they like.
No, I really didn’t, but this IS the exact kind of sentiment substitute that I was citing earlier. It’s the retranslation of a statment that puts forward something reasonable and recasts it into something unreasonable that assigns responsibility/blame.
I said that if fans like a series, the best way to help make sure that it will continue it is to purchase it monthly. To read that as saying that they have an “obligation” to purchase it monthly is ludicrous–although its very ludicrousness makes it far easier to attack than the far more reasonable sentiment I expressed.
PAD
Isn;t this like saying..I think it is gonna be a good movie…but I aint gonna pay money to see it, I will wait for the sequel. At that point the sequel is never made for lack of sales. Or saying..I like Dark Angel, but am never home on Friday’s, so I will wait for the boxed set. If the ratings suck..no box set will exsist
Which reminds me, I really need to go pick up that Firefly DVD set…
🙂 (The point in general is well taken — I just couldn’t resist.)
TWL
“Isn;t this like saying..I think it is gonna be a good movie…but I aint gonna pay money to see it, I will wait for the sequel.”
The argument has merit, but there’s the other side of the coin where customers (such as myself) are tired of being frustrated when they follow a series and get left hanging because the sequel doesn’t come out. For example, KAMANDI ended its run with an especially frustrating “to be continued” where they seemed about to reveal a lot of the secrets behind the character and the world he lived in. Paying money to get furstrated like that is not my idea of fun.
Peter, please don’t let the turkeys get you down. Just keep on doing what you do, which is excellent, and which you seem to enjoy very much. And lots of us enjoy it too. I was thinking about once when Harlan Ellison chewed a guy up one side and down the other, when the guy criticized something the Great Ellison had written. I am a big fan of Ellison’s but it was a bit painful to see him so thoroughly destroy this idiot in audience. But maybe a bit of that attitude would come in handy for you, from time to time.
And just out of curiosity, can anyone out there think of another retail industry that treats its customers with as much contempt, as the comic book selling business does?
The music industry.
You sound like one of the people who would rather steal music than pay for it, because your way is better than the industry way, than the retail way.
Sure, stores need to cater to consumers, but what’s your point?
People still buy monthlies, and people buy trades only. So how exactly do they cater to both groups and NOT go out of business?
But that doesn’t matter to you cause you’re just cheap.
If a product is good, it’s worth paying a little bit more for.
Granted, I haven’t bought a comic in two years, but this was the case for me when I did collect – the comics were worth the price.
Star Trek and Dragonlance novels, along with the others I buy, are worth the price.
(And isn’t alot of the inflation in comics and novels caused by the cost of paper?)
CD’s, however, are not worth the cost. Most of the music out there is utter crap. And while I do buy the music of the artists I like, there aren’t as many said artists as in years past.
This is something else that the music industry fails to recognize as well in their witch hunt of P2P users.
Trades vs. individual issues? I buy both!
I go with the TPBs for stories that are connected and complete, such as SANDMAN or POWERS. For me, getting these books month by month feels like buying a great novel, reading a chapter, setting it aside for a month, reading another chapter, and so on…
I go with individual issues for books that work pretty well as stand-alone stories. DORK TOWER, KNIGHTS OF THE DINNER TABLE, and PS238 are all stories I don’t mind waiting in-between issues. (I probably will get the TPB for DORK TOWER simply because I don’t want anythng to my signed 1st edition of #1.)
That’s an advantage TPBs have over individual issues: durability. It’s easier to keep a TPB on a bookshelf than a bunch of single issues, and I find it much easier to loan someone a single volume than several loose comics.
As for the abovementioned errors in TPBs, I’ve seen the screwed up pages in THE HULK: FUTURE IMPERFECT. I’ve also seen this done in individual comics (an issue of THE QUESTION was ruined when the last page was printed halfway through the story).
As for TPB benefits? Most of the ones I’ve gotten recently (HELLBOY and POWERS leap to mind) have creator notes, sketches, covers, and other extras. And words cannot express how glad I am to have gotten the KINGDOM COME TPB and enjoyed the post-story meeting at the end that NO ONE buying the individual issues got to read. Unless, y’know, they spent money on the TPB afterwards…
I appreciate PAD’s frustration with single comic sales suffering because of people waiting for TPBs, but I can very easily understand why some folks prefer the TPB.
I think we have two issues here, fan reactions to creator input and monthlies vs. TPBs, so I’m going to address them separately.
First, monthlies vs. TPBs. I’m sorry to say that I will be moving more and more of my purchases away from monthlies and into the TPBs. First, there’s often cited cost of the monthlies that has just skyrocketed out of control. I’m not old enough to remember the days of the 10-cent comic, but I do remember buying my first comics in the 70s for 40 cents. Thirty years later and the average price is over seven times that amount. I remember as a kid worrying about how my parents would react if they found out that I just spent $20 on comics in one month. Now, I’ve had weeks where I’ve spent over twice that amount in one week.
Even with inflation factored into it, the rising cost of monthlies is starting to take its toll.
I don’t begrudge comics creators the right to earn a living, but I have also got to think in terms of my own budget. If I want to continue buying comics and enjoying the medium, then I have to change the way I buy or just buy fewer comics. Neither may be good for the creators in the short term and for that, I am sorry.
It’s an open secret that many, if not most ongoing series at being structure around six-issue arcs in order to fill in the TPBs. John Byrne even said recently that for his upcoming JLA arc, he was told that it had to be six issues. This model has hurt the monthlies because always fewer people will buy part 6 of 6 then will buy part 1 of 6. Plus, many stories are now read like they’re being artificially stretched out to fill one or more TPBs. I’ve alredy had several people tell me “but it reads much better in the TPB” after I complained about a story arc running too long in a monthly.
PAD, you may be fighting the good fight to preserve the monthly with some short, stand alone stories in Fallen Angel, but I think you’re fighting a losing battle to save a dinosaur that doesn’t realize the meteor has alreay hit.
Because of this and the rising cost of the monthlies, I do believe that TPBs are the future of the comics industry. Let’s face it, they last longer on the shelves than monthlies, which makes them more attractive to the big box stores like Borders and B&N and they allow for the telling of more complex stories. Just as forty years ago, when the industry started shifting from telling four or five eight page stories in one comic, to telling 22-page stories in one book, not to mention when Stna Lee introduced those three words to comics: “to be continued.”
While PAD is right in pointing out that low monthly sales does reduce the likelihood of a book being released in a TPB, I think that’s only a temporary hitch. Eventually, DC, Marvel, Image, et. al. will all have to develop new business models to reflect that TPBs are going to be the standard and not a special feature of the industry in the years to come.
Folks:
Some have mentioned cost as a factor when deciding whether to purchase. Consider this: “Many Happy Returns” is available at Overstock.com for $9.90 plus $1.40 postage (when using a bookstore search engine like http://www.bestbookdeal.com or http://www.allbookstore.com). So, if it’s likely that the publisher is going to do a TPB, then some will want to wait and get the lower-priced deal.
George Guay
(Apologies to those who might have raised this point sooner.)
Now, as for fan reactions, I think it’s endemic to both the internet “chat” culture and of culture sci-fi and comicsfan. I remember seeing PAD post comics about X-Factor back in the early 90s and getting blasted by fans for it, so he is right that this is long term problem and I have seen creators like Mark Waid, Kurt Busiek, and Jeph Loeb getting savagely attacked on the DC message boards after they tried to answer questions posted by fans. One person even accused Kurt Busiek
taking bribes from DC to make sure that Superman beat Thor.
People tend to see internet as a place to rant and rave about what bugs then. This is especially true about Sci-Fi and comics fans who appear to have a sense of ownership towards the characters that they have spent years of their lives following and worshiping. Again, this isn’t really anything new, Chris Claremont reported receiving death threats after the Dark Phoenix saga back in the 1980! It’s just that internet is designed to give every idiot a megaphone to put out his rant for all the world to see (or at least, all of fandom to see).
Here’s the thing, PAD, many of these people don’t want to hear your side of it. They don’t want to hear an explanation of your reasoning behind the story or that you are planning something. When Jamie Maddox fell out of the window, you didn’t follow their preconceived notion about how his powers worked, so therefore, you are a hack and should give up writing never darken one of their titles again with your presence.
There really isn’t any reasoning with these people. These are the kind of people who latch on every creative team change on Green Lantern as proof that DC has finally seen the light and will bring Hal Jordan back to life as the one true GL. And then, when it doesn’t happen, they will rant and rave about how DC deceived them again!
Some people are just jerks. And just because a jerk knows how to post a weblog, doesn’t make them any more worth your time. If I were you, I would reply to those who appear sane and just tell the trolls, “that’s great. Have a nice life.”
Boy, shows you what I know. I had absolutely no idea that the Net was around back when I was 13 and Back to the Future was in theaters. I was under the impression that it wasn’t available to the public until about 1992-94. Perhaps that was just in its current form. I also had no idea “commonweal” was a word. Generally, I use one of the several dictionaries I have near my computer, or go to dictionary.com to reference a word, but my assumption that “commonweal” was a mistake on Peter’s part seemed so obvious to me at the time that I didn’t even consider it.
Thanks for clarifying, Peter and Tim.
Peter David: I never said people had an obligation to support monthly titles. They don’t. But boy, you sure wouldn’t know it from the level of responses my comments received.
Ralf Haring: But with statements like: “That if fans want to help ensure the survival of new series, they should consider buying monthlies.” you are saying that fans have an obligation to support any book they like.
Luigi Novi: No, he is not saying that, as the two statements don’t mean the same thing. The two main differences between them is that:
1. He includes the conditional phrase “if the fans want to help ensure the survivial of a series,” which is not the same thing as “any book they like.”
2. He said that the fans should CONSIDER his suggestion, which is not the same thing as asserting they have an obligation to it.
Joe Krolik: If anyone thinks that they are saving by buying a trade, consider my two favorite examples: 1.) Exiles vol. 2 from Marvel saves the reader ONE WHOLE CENT over the monthly cost of the separate issues…
Luigi Novi: Does that include the cost of bags and boards? At Midtown Comics in Times Square, NYC, a bag and board is .25 cents. And such things also take up extra space. A minor detail, but I just thought I’d point it out. 🙂
skrinq: Part of the problem is also that the ‘thrill of the hunt’ we old-timers remember has been subsumed by the instant gratification that the ‘net and the trades permit – some folks just want all the issues they are missing ‘now’ and aren’t happy about getting some they may have missed from shop A and others from shop B.
Luigi Novi: Yeah, imagine that. Imagine shopping around for something, and wanting to be able to purchase when I actually step foot in a store, and not want to get it piecemeal. Why, the utter nerve of me!
skring: My words were strong, but not inaccurate. Note the use of the modifier ‘some’ used repeatedly in the original. Like it or not, the reality is that some customers are ill-mannered at the least, and abrasive or anti-social at the worst.
Luigi Novi: Sorry, skring, but, the above statement concerning merely wanting to buy what you want when you want it doesn’t seem to convey that.
You sound like one of the people who would rather steal music than pay for it, because your way is better than the industry way, than the retail way.
Ooookay. So buying trades instead of individual comics is equivalent to stealing music. John Byrne, is that you?
If a product is good, it’s worth paying a little bit more for.
If you’re talking about a car, or a TV maybe. For drawings on paper, I’ll pay the least amount possible, if it means having to wait a couple of months of even a couple of years. I have such a large backlog of stuff to read that it’s no burden on me.
And if I can buy something like the Absolute League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen collection for $52.50 from Amazon, why the hëll would I pay $75.00 for it in a comic book store?
CD’s, however, are not worth the cost. Most of the music out there is utter crap. And while I do buy the music of the artists I like, there aren’t as many said artists as in years past.
There’s plenty of good music being created every year. You won’t find any of it in the charts or playing on MTV though. I bought almost 50 new albums last year and expect to buy the same amount this year.
And if you think, “because most of it is crap,” is a good excuse for theft, then you really must be John Byrne.
said that if fans like a series, the best way to help make sure that it will continue it is to purchase it monthly.
Like I said not everyone can afford to buy stacks of comics every month. I had to give it up cause I only make min. wage and something had to go. I even had to give up collecting Trek stuff as well. When money is tight and you have to let something go, ent. products are the first on the list for most people. To expect fans to buy every month is dumb. Sometimes it can’t be helped. Just like music CD’s. I don;t download music and neighter do I go out and spend 20 dollars on a CD. And the RIAA can kiss my ášš cause I am boycotting them anyway. I had mountains of comics when I was younger. Just sitting in boxes collecting dust. Not worth it to me to keep collecting.
after awhile, I did by TBP because the stories were better. 🙂
Ralf Haring: But with statements like: “That if fans want to help ensure the survival of new series, they should consider buying monthlies.” you are saying that fans have an obligation to support any book they like.
You’re reading too much into that statement. Peter’s sentiment was, “If you choose not to support the monthly, don’t be too surprised if that book you enjoyed doesn’t sell well enough to warrant that trade paperback.”
At least that’s what I got out of it.
For me, I love monthlies. I like the feel of comics in my hands, the staple instead of the binding glue (with comics, the paper is the first to go, but only if the comic is stressed, whereas binding glue will wear out in five or six years just sitting on the shelf). I like going in every week and talking for twenty minutes to an hour with the guy behind the counter about the books I’m reading, the books he reccomends, what he’s planning to stock, favorite artists and writers, and so on.
I have no idea where the tons of people who swear by trade paperbacks come from; only recently have comics less than a year old been reprinted unless they sold through the roof. You never saw plain ol’ six-issue story arcs printed unless they had serious repercussions, and most of the TPBs I would see were major stories (Panic in the Sky, three or four X-Men and Spider-Man stories), special events (the collection of DC/Marvel crossovers, like Titans/X-Men and Batman/Hulk), and full runs (Cerebus and Sandman).
Frankly, I’m annoyed with the heavy influx of recent stories as TPBs — most of them by Geoff Johns, for some reason — I remember a ton of stories I loved that never got that treatment, and they were stories that actually needed it. I mean, do I really need a collection of six consecutive issues of JSA? No, I can go find those somewhere, or at least I can try to. It’s straightforward and collecting something like that doesn’t really help anybody except the people who refuse to buy monthlies. But take a story like “Breakdowns,” the 15-part JLI/JLE crossover from seven or eight years ago, or the Green Lantern/Flash crossover “Gorilla Warfare,” one of the most referenced moments in recent DC history — second only to “One Punch!” — in spite of the fact that it was the most unimportant story ever told — aside, of course, from the fact that it had Rex the Wonder Dog in it.
Why are these great stories not getting attention? Because they’re old? Because they didn’t sell (that’s crap, by the way — Waid’s Flash was always a middlin’-to-good seller, and JLI’s sales only faltered near the end)? Or perhaps because they weren’t written by Golden Boy Geoff Johns? Come on; where’s the TPB for Phil Foglio’s Stanley and His Monster? What about the death of the KGBeast and the first appearance of the NKVDemon? The “Krypton Man” story from the late ’80s? Why was Kevin Smith’s “Quiver” hardcover? Why hasn’t Giffen’s L.E.G.I.O.N. or PAD’s Aquaman been collected?
The heavy influx of irrelevant stories from six months ago doesn’t really indicate the death of the medium, it just shows the weakness of it; people are patient and there’s an element of frugality involved too, so drop the dámņ price of the monthlies! They shouldn’t be comparable in price to the collected editions, that’s just stupid.
Take a look at the Top 300 list; even the best-selling comic can only move just under 150,000 units. Compare that to the million copies of Spawn #1 that were sold. Am I to understand that Spawn was as good as sales get? Out of nearly 300 million Americans, the best they can do is a five hundredths of a percent of the population (and that doesn’t even count the fact that the Top 300 includes Canada)? What other creative industry can lay claim to such small numbers? JLA/Avengers #3 isn’t a success (at 148,196 units sold in November), it’s just the least pitiful failure. And if you take a look at graphic novel sales, the top seller at 41,000 copies isn’t really the shot in the arm comics need to survive.
I’ll just jump in to re-make the points that I made on this very blog a number of months ago; companies (like Marvel) that don’t wait at least six months from the time the last chapter of a story arc hits the stands to publish the trade paperback collection are killing the monthly comics. If the collection is out right after the story ends, why not wait?
This will drive up the prices of all trade paperbacks (which will no longer have their production costs subsidized by the monthly books), thus undercutting one of the two reasons for buying a trade in the first place (price and convenience).
And for those waiting for the trade to buy a title they’re considering, I have two words: ATLANTIS CHRONICLES. So many people waited for the trade on that one (arguably one of PAD’s best works)that the resulting low sales torpedoed any collection (even though one was actually solicited, then cancelled).
Not relevant to your primary point, but talking about the presence of pros amongst the fans, Poppy Z. Brite has been kicked out of an online community named after her
Just a few additions and affirmations:
For the fans buying monthlies, publishers can release a 16 page (or multiple of 8 pages) special issue with both the additional info/story/pages in the graphic novel and extended reader letters with answers from the editor or creators, sketches, etc.
The price issue is a big one. Why does free television have so many car commericials? Because there are enough viewers out there who can afford to buy or lease cars.
Pubishers need to have a clear strategy cover price for monthly issues, and decide how they want to build their audience and sales. I agree that cover prices should be more reasonable and that the gamble should be towards quantity profits in the long run, rather than immediate short-run profits. However, this is less predictable to business people; and it can be difficult to convince non-fan publishers and their corporate committes to go along with this.
TPB for Phil Foglio’s Stanley and His Monster?
Cough, cough! Excuse me? Where’s the Trade Paperback for Arnold Drake’s Stanely and His Monster?
You know, the guy who created it, and is a wonderful writer who also did break down sketches. Oh, yeah, he wrote the first graphic novel back in teh 1950s.
Since nekouken mentioned Spawn, allow me to ask an OT question:
Has anyone here heard about the Supreme Court decision on Todd McFarlane’s case at http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SCOTUS_COMIC_SPEECH?SITE=1010WINS&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT ?
Hey – I will only collect a book if I’m DYING to read it. I’m not going to just “wait for a trade” for myself – if I’m going to spend hard-earned money on it, it’s because I’m ready to drop everything else in my life until I read it.
Now, I will buy the trades for books I’ve picked up LATE, or as Christmas / birthday presents for friends with different reading tastes. For instance, I caught onto Sandman & Transmetropolitan right around the time the last issues came out. So, I buy the trades.
But, on a current book, I just can’t wait that long. I love the book POWERS. I tried to wait until the trades came out. I couldn’t. The issue, sitting on the shelves, burnt its way into my subconcious. I couldn’t leave the store without it, because I found it so compelling that I wanted to read it.
I’ve only read about half of the above posts, but wanted to offer my opinion/view point of the whole tpb issue.
But first, sadly, PAD’s horrible treatment by many of the so-called online “fans” is all too symptomatic of one of the biggest problems our society faces today: lack of civility. People today are just much ruder and crasser than in previous generations. As if you needed further proof, just go to any movie theatre and observe the audience’s behavior. People have absolutely no respect for others, and that shows quite clearly in their behavior toward PAD and other professionals who grant us the courtesy of actually communicating openly with us, their fans. It makes me ashamed to call myself a part of such a community.
Now about tpb’s. I buy both, when I can afford them. Like everything, it is primarily a matter of budget.
I like buying monthlies because of the cover art, which is often not included in a collection, letters pages (less an issue lately, since so many books no longer have them anyway), and the thrill of seeing where the story goes from issue to issue.
I also buy trades of the stories I like or have missed, since it is so very nice to be able to read an arc straight through in one setting. On occasion the trades also include additional material not published in the monthlies. Collections of out of print or classic material are also appreciated. I will never be able to afford original issues of Lee and Kirby Fantastic Four, or Lee and Ditko Spider-Man, so I love being able to read these issues in the Masterworks or Essentials collections.
Given a choice between the two, however, I would choose the monthlies without hesitation. There is still such a thrill to going to the comic store and finding a new issue on the rack. It is almost the same feeling I got 30 years ago as a kid riding my bike to the corner drug store and flipping through the books on the squeaky spinner rack. And as Peter has pointed out, without the monthlies, there will be nothing to collect into a trade.
PAD we are, more or less of the same age. In other words we’ve seen how technology has changed the entertainment medium.
Remember when TV programs proudly mentioned that their show was “In Color”.
My point? Things change, it’s the nature of the universe.
You’re getting older and like myself we are seeing things that are changing for the better, others are going headlong into disaster.
Comics, in order to survive WILL change. It is inevitable.
If tomorrow one million readers suddenly preferred TPB instead of monthlies — you’d be writing for TPB.
You’re a writer that has survived for years – while others have gone the way of the dodo. You think you did that WITHOUT adapting to the ever changing readership/environment?
Hëll, if gay readers suddenly organized and used their wallets and pocket books to demand changes … well, you have an imagination go ahead and fill in the blanks.
Fans are nastier than they used to be? Here’s something — so what?
Bottom line, as long as they are buying books you can pick and choose what and who you what to respond to.
Most of the really angry ones already have a tentative grasp on reality and are mostly classified as hopeless virgins living with their parents looonngg after it was reasonable … So IGNORE them.
I’m of mixed minds on this subject.
I Like trades. I like the lack of ads, I like having an entire story line (or two) in one package and I like that I can get trades more easily than I can single issues.
I can pick up trades at Barnes and Noble, a very quick stop on my way home. There is no comic book shop along my normally traveled route.
I’m disabled, going out of my way for comics is difficult, if not painful.
Yes, I could subscribe and I do subscibe to several comics. However, I’m not going to subscibe to a new series without a chance to at least sample an issue (or an arc).
In the case of Fallen Angel, I did conctact my mail-order dealer and have him add it to my “pull-list.” I don’t do this for every new comic that catches my eye. I did this based on my faith in the author.
But if Peter hadn’t been the author, I might have waited for the trade.
Why?
1) I pay for my subscriptions up front; one year at a time. That’s a fair bit of coin to invest in a series I might not like
2) The series could get axed before my year is up. This could leave the series in mid-arc. Peter, I know from experience, tends to tie up loose ends. Some other writers do not.
Plus, the other reasons I listed about regarding why I like trades.
Again affirmation to William who was very succint. Trades are good to catch up, and as gifts to new readers of a title.
By the way, I love Phil Foglio’s sense of humor and art style and would suggest a TPB that included from both versions of Stanely and His Monster with introductions by both authors… could even have one of those turn around covers on both sides….
I agree with Meredith and with Den – some fans are very covetous of the idea of saying things about a pro (and that pro’s work) behind his or her back rather than having to deal with the consequences of their words. I think it’s part and parcel of the mentality that holds fictional characters in greater esteem than real people. Fortunately, as Baerbel Haddrell noted, fans possessing this kind of mentality do seem to be in the minority; it’s just that a lot of them are old-time holdovers from Usenet, where that way of thinking never really seemed to die out.
Jim, I really feel for that CG fan. About the time they were proclaiming they “would publish ALL of their titles as TPBs” and that this was “their model,” they were also screwing their freelancers by not paying them – a situation that has STILL not been rectified (i.e., not a SINGLE freelancer has been paid yet, as far as I know), just swept under the carpet by CG and a complacent press. Just as a by-the-way.
Peter- It’s not the fans fault that the people who run the superhero comic industry are incompetent and release new content in the worst format imaginable.
Instead of complaining to fans, why not complain to managemant and get yourself fired?
Howdy,
One brief thought on monthly vs. TPB:
Buying comics monthly requires patience and persistence, especially if you miss an issue and have to track it down to fill the hole in the story. Perhaps the reason the monthly comic book is withering is due to the shrinking number of people in possession of both qualities? It takes a certain obsessive quality to collect comics monthly.
This is not assisted by the lack of locations where monthly comics and back issues can be purchased. I know there is the Internet or eBay, where you get to buy the issue you missed for $2.50 and pay $4.00 for shipping. See above comment about patience, persistence, and obsessiveness, and how the average schmoe today has insufficient quantities of all three.
In general, I wonder about the viability of serialized fiction as a whole, especially in a genre intent on creating stories with a beginning followed by an interminable middle and no end in sight. How are soap operas doing these days?
— Ed
You’re reading too much into that statement. Peter’s sentiment was, “If you choose not to support the monthly, don’t be too surprised if that book you enjoyed doesn’t sell well enough to warrant that trade paperback.” At least that’s what I got out of it.
I didn’t read it that way, because I thought that would have been blatantly self-evident. I suppose the original anecdote that was related by Mr. David seemed to me to have been construed in the wrong way. If a reader says they’ll wait for the trade, to me that doesn’t mean that they are 100% expecting a guaranteed collection in the future. It just means that they were marginally interested in the comic, but not so overwhelmed that they couldn’t live without it. Whereas in times past, the reader would have had no choice but to collect the issues to get the story, there is now another option available, a more comfortable, affordable option for many.
Publishers must adjust their business models to account for trade sales. It’s not only smart to diversify your business, but it has unexpectedly led to people spending more on comics than they did before. I am much more likely to buy a marginally interesting series in trade than as issues. I spend more on comics now than I ever have before.
I have no idea where the tons of people who swear by trade paperbacks come from;
Either they’ve been here the whole time or they left during the speculator bust. There are lots of former comic readers out there who wouldn’t mind being casual comic readers again if the stories were good. Trades are the ideal format to reach them.
Frankly, I’m annoyed with the heavy influx of recent stories as TPBs — most of them by Geoff Johns, for some reason — I remember a ton of stories I loved that never got that treatment, and they were stories that actually needed it. I mean, do I really need a collection of six consecutive issues of JSA? No, I can go find those somewhere, or at least I can try to. It’s straightforward and collecting something like that doesn’t really help anybody except the people who refuse to buy monthlies. But take a story like “Breakdowns,” the 15-part JLI/JLE crossover from seven or eight years ago, or the Green Lantern/Flash crossover “Gorilla Warfare,” one of the most referenced moments in recent DC history — second only to “One Punch!” — in spite of the fact that it was the most unimportant story ever told — aside, of course, from the fact that it had Rex the Wonder Dog in it.
Why are these great stories not getting attention? Because they’re old?
Yes, because they are old. It’s much easier to sell a trade when there is a current tie-in project. That’s why you’ll see trades of characters that are currently featured in the movies or are currently popular. There will be a collection of Perez’ last couple Avengers issues that crossed over with Thunderbolts to tie in with the upcoming Avengers/Thunderbolts miniseries. It’s not so easy to sell a collection of some random story from before trades became popular, regardless of how good it is.
Because they didn’t sell (that’s crap, by the way — Waid’s Flash was always a middlin’-to-good seller, and JLI’s sales only faltered near the end)? Or perhaps because they weren’t written by Golden Boy Geoff Johns? Come on; where’s the TPB for Phil Foglio’s Stanley and His Monster? What about the death of the KGBeast and the first appearance of the NKVDemon? The “Krypton Man” story from the late ’80s? Why was Kevin Smith’s “Quiver” hardcover? Why hasn’t Giffen’s L.E.G.I.O.N. or PAD’s Aquaman been collected?
Kevin Smith’s Green Arrow is in hardcover because they think they can sell it at that price, making them more money. If a series by some other creator sold gangbusters, you can be sure DC would collect those as hardcovers as well, such as with Jim Lee’s Batman. I’m fully expecting Avengers/JLA to show up as a hardcover first.
Take a look at the Top 300 list; even the best-selling comic can only move just under 150,000 units. Compare that to the million copies of Spawn #1 that were sold. Am I to understand that Spawn was as good as sales get? Out of nearly 300 million Americans, the best they can do is a five hundredths of a percent of the population (and that doesn’t even count the fact that the Top 300 includes Canada)? What other creative industry can lay claim to such small numbers? JLA/Avengers #3 isn’t a success (at 148,196 units sold in November), it’s just the least pitiful failure. And if you take a look at graphic novel sales, the top seller at 41,000 copies isn’t really the shot in the arm comics need to survive.
Keep in mind that those are only sales through Diamond and not to regular book stores.
On a completely unrelated note… Axel Alonso makes reference to Peter’s dislike of Bruce Jones’ Hulk in his latest interview:
http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8052
I agree re: Phil Foglio’s Stanley and his Monster (coincidently, I just reread it yesturday). No Sandman collection is complete without it!
Jim, I really feel for that CG fan. About the time they were proclaiming they “would publish ALL of their titles as TPBs” and that this was “their model,” they were also screwing their freelancers by not paying them – a situation that has STILL not been rectified (i.e., not a SINGLE freelancer has been paid yet, as far as I know), just swept under the carpet by CG and a complacent press. Just as a by-the-way.
Elayne, have there been any new developments? Wouldn’t any new report just consist of “still not fixed, see previous article?” Not exactly the most compelling news…
Isn’t this like saying..I think it is gonna be a good movie…but I aint gonna pay money to see it, I will wait for the sequel. At that point the sequel is never made for lack of sales. Or saying..I like Dark Angel, but am never home on Friday’s, so I will wait for the boxed set. If the ratings suck..no box set will exsist
Which reminds me, I really need to go pick up that Firefly DVD set…
Do you think that if anyone but Joss made Firefly the boxed set would have been made ? Firefly’s rating did not warrant a boxed set….Joss’s fan base and his persistance did. And yeah I can see where you couldn’t resist 🙂
I generally pick up the single issue of comics for just the reason you noted PAD. I want the book to do well. If at some point I think I can stop getting the issues and switch to TP I do that. I don’t get both. (though I may much later go back and get the early TPs that I didn’t get initially).
So I keep getting Fallen Angel issues and passing on the TPs. But I recently stopped getting Fables and Y-Last Man in favor of TP.
Okay, I realize I must be missing something here, but I notice that everyone keeps comparing comics to electronic media like movies and DVDs. That seems like such a stretch. To me, the obvious comparison should be magazines.
Every week, Time and Newsweek send me 100 pages of new material, always on schedule. Every month Esquire puts out dozens of stories by world-famous authors, who I imagine must be paid at least as well as comic book writers. Sure, not every page includes art, but many do, and it seems to be increasing every year. Heck, look at that pariah of the internet, Wizard – the last issue had a full issue of Fantastic Four, part of an issue of Batman/Superman, and twenty other articles as well. And I could buy any of these for less than the price of two comics. In fact, since I subscribe to Esquire, I get it for even less than that, since they know they can rely on my business for the whole year.
Why doesn’t someone just take a magazine like Wizard, cull out all the articles and interviews, and insert more comics? The art would take longer, but you wouldn’t be under any of the time pressure a news magazine faces, so you could work months in advance.
Obviously the magazines I mentioned have much larger circulations, but is this a cause or effect? I subscribe to a lot of magazines I barely read, but for $12 a year, who cares? I also get a lot of magazines for my kids that are largely mediocre, like Nick Jr. or Big Backyard, but it makes them happy, and again, it’s chump change. If I could get all the Superman titles in one monthly magazine for $2.95, I’d subscribe in a second, and so would a lot more people than currently visit their neighborhood comics stores.
So, what is the factor I’m overlooking? Are artists and writers just too expensive? Do comics require a different printing process than, say, Stuff? Or are we just convinced there’s no market for it, regardless of how we package it now?
My firm belief is that this trend will at some point blow itself to bits as was the case with the multiple cover fads of the early 90s, but it will do so much quicker if only for the reason that it’s one thing to budget for 10 or 15 comic books per week whereas it’s quite another to budget for some 10 to 15 Manga or other trades per week (and yes, they’re already coming out that fast and promising to increase throughout this year!).
I don’t see the logic behind this statement. First of all, manga cover a much wider range of interests than most mainstream American comics. Very few people would feel obliged to buy every single one–any more than they’d feel obliged to buy every new paperback book, or every CD, or see every movie. (Or buy every superhero comic, for that matter.)
Secondly, trade collections aren’t periodicals, they’re books. A buyer can wait much longer to buy a title without worrying that it’ll vanish from under their nose.
As for the idea that publishers should wait X amount of time before releasing a trade of a series: I don’t like the idea of a hard and fast rule here. Yes, there are cases where this would be a good idea; but there have also been cases where an “instant collection” was the best thing possible. Case in point: Sandman.
DC released the trade paperback of “The Doll’s House” the month after the storyline wrapped up in the comic. This allowed them to a) cash in on strong buzz from a very positive article in “Rolling Stone,” and b) attract readers who could then buy the next issue off the stands. This was a pretty key move in establishing the comic’s success. (If they’d waited six months, the paperback would have come out a few chapters into “Season of Mists,” which would have been a much worse jumping-on point.)
Now, I don’t think that they should have continued to release every paperback that quickly. But in cases where a book generates strong interest quickly (that could be lost if there isn’t a good jumping-on point available), then I don’t think a quick reprint of some sort should be ruled out.
Luigi Novi: Yeah, imagine that. Imagine shopping around for something, and wanting to be able to purchase when I actually step foot in a store, and not want to get it piecemeal. Why, the utter nerve of me!
skrinq: Can understand the misperception here. Likely it is more due to a lack of clarity in my comment than anything else.
What was being referred to in ‘the thrill of the hunt’ was the obtaining of missed, sold out, back or out-of-print issues, which often cannot all be found at any one location. Conventions help in this type of search as well, as having multiple retailers under one roof allows one a better opportunity to find each issue on one trip.
Of course your statement is valid and true. That is (ostensibly) one of the purposes of trades – to make the entire story avialable in one package for those who want it in that form.
As to whether any specific one of the scores of trades that come out each month is actually in stock in a given location for walk-in patrons, though, is another matter – one partially affected by perceived demand prior to publication and also word of mouth. No comics shop can (or should) carry every single item that is published, but any decent shop should offer the ability to special order any not in-stock item and to make every effort to get it in a timely fashion.
A side question occurs to me, too. With their higher price points, the trade format (thinking more along the lines of the manga books here) take a greater financial toll on the bottom line if a theoretical location were to try to keep all back numbers available (the same holds true, to an extent for publishers keeping all back numbers in print and warehoused). What’s going to happen 2, or 5 years down the line if people want to ‘catch up’ with a series they’ve just discovered?
In this case, it would seem that the standard format comics hold a slight advantage, as they are (generally) more readily available, and at a lower per-item price point.
The point made not far above about comics subsidizing the costs of trades (which are, essentially, reprints) is a good one.
If anywhere along the line I have given the impression that those who prefer trades (including the “I’ll wait for the trade” crowd) are wrong – that is not the case. It is just a different mindset, and such decisions are valid – but in an industry with such a small gross audience, each of those decisions added together does have some consequence – letting your retailer know of your decision, while not an obligation, and neither required nor expected, is always a good thing – it allows him/her to adjust orders for upcoming issues and to have a baseline, however tenuous, to refer to when it comes time to order the trade.
As for the scheduling of printing trades – there will always be situations that are exceptions to any rule. It just seems that the immediate (or close to immediate) release, as a matter of course, of trades serves to further cheapen the status of the monthlies.
You’re reading too much into that statement. Peter’s sentiment was, “If you choose not to support the monthly, don’t be too surprised if that book you enjoyed doesn’t sell well enough to warrant that trade paperback.” At least that’s what I got out of it.
I didn’t read it that way, because I thought that would have been blatantly self-evident.
You’d think that, wouldn’t you. To me, the statement is blatantly self-evident (and correctly restated above). Which is why I’m flabbergasted that people insist on skewing it into totally different meanings which are not only NOT self-evident, but blatantly idiotic, and then attribute the idiotic sentiments to me.
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It just seems to me that the immediate (or close to immediate) release, as a matter of course, of trades serves to further cheapen the status of the monthlies.
I agree; it shouldn’t be a matter of course. I just wanted to supply a counter to the more extreme point of view that there should be a mandatory minimum length before releasing a collection.
It just seems to me that the immediate (or close to immediate) release, as a matter of course, of trades serves to further cheapen the status of the monthlies.
Why does the monthly format deserve special consideration? If the majority of customers shift to a different format (and I’m not saying that this is the case right now), the publishers should adapt and the monthly format should be forced to change or die. This is a good thing and exactly the way the market should work, imo.