So I’ve been reading HULK for the past year, determined to wrap myself around why it is that the book is so beloved.
Guys…is it me? Be honest. Seriously. Am I so biased that I’m simply *incapable* of understanding the book’s success? Don’t get me wrong: Bruce Jones, perfectly good writer Loved his stuff on Ka-Zar.
But, my God, people say *I* drag out stories? Snails could do windsprints around this pacing. The latest storyline is pretty much the last straw for me. Five issues to tell a story in which the Hulk makes no significant appearance until the last issue…at which time, unless I’m reading it wrong, he did nothing to aid in the resolution of the story. That’s not even taking into account that the Absorbing Man talks and acts nothing like the Absorbing Man of forty years standing.
Yet fans support the book by the carload.
Really, I desperately want to understand the popularity. Someone explain it to me.
PAD
• 
i agree with you dave….i started reading jones’ run with his first issue. and it wasn’t bad. like to see where it was going….found out that it was going no where. i dropped it myself. too much other good stuff out there to be bothered with a so-so book.
i like the kingpin mini that bruce jones is doing.
I have no opinion on the book because I don’t read it, but I have a different question for the readers and posters here:
How long before some troll or flamer posts to accuse Peter of sour grapes because the book he left is so successful? A day? Three days?
I say three days or less. Any takers?
Place your bets now.
“I have no opinion on the book because I don’t read it, but I have a different question for the readers and posters here:
How long before some troll or flamer posts to accuse Peter of sour grapes because the book he left is so successful? A day? Three days?
I say three days or less. Any takers?
Place your bets now. “
LIAR! Just because Peter’s jealous of the books current success doesn’t mean he’s got sour grapes in his refrigerator!
…Errr… YOINK! (runs away)
Well Peter, I don’t get it either. Sorry I can’t be of more help. You comments on pacing really rings true. I read several of them in a row and didn’t feel like much was happening at all. I tried the 25 cent issues and again thought it could have been done in about 12 pages. And where is the HULK? They need not bring back the “Professor” version of the Hulk but, dang, we should least get to see him more often. Yeah, I’m not buying it.
Hmmm…fans…I think people will support what they want to support, what they think is cool at the time.
Marvel should put you and Walter Simonson on it! Yeah!
Shawn
Although I haven’t gotten to the post-50 issues, I’m having a good time with the Bruce Jones run. Granted, the only run I haven’t enjoyed over the years was the first 12 issues of this volume of the Hulk (so bad I won’t buy them ever, not even if they were a dime each), but I’m fine with the book.
Then again, I’m no longer a monthly comics reader. I buy a box of comics each month, and then read each title when I get “enough” of a book. There just aren’t any comics anymore that look to “pay off” a monthly reader anymore- the joy is in the extended storylines, and there’s plenty of joy there.
But that’s me. For all I know, this last story was terrible. I did like issue 50, though.
I think the Bruce Jones run has definitely had some good issues, but there needs to be a lot of plot resolution before it goes any further. I’m still lost about the whole Ricky Meyers thing…did that happen before Jones’ run started?
When do we get 22 pages of Hulk just smashing stuff (preferably for no apparant reason)?
Personally, I adored the run until the last storyline. I like conspiracy tails (altough they tend to make or break on the revelations, which haven’t happened yet), and I’ve enjoyed his use of the other characters (even if he missed a few plot points, like the fact that Banner has seen the Abomination’s wife before, back in your run). That said, the last storyline was dreadful, and a ludicrous misuse of one of Marvel’s more fun villains.
To be honest I really didn’t like the last 5 issues.
I got the feeling that the absorbing man was brought in because of the movie and jones didn’t really have a handle on how to use him so he created this power that i’ve never seen before to try and turn it into a psychological drama.
I don’t know if you’re going to get too many people to come in and say i liked the last story arc.
I’d have to go back and reread the earlier stuff to remember what I like about it (not a good sign i know, but it’s been a few months)
I have no idea either. I found myself reading the first story arc and thinking, “hmm… everyone is shot in the dead center of their foreheads. If I were Monk, I would find this a very meaningful point.” But, ultimately, it means nothing.
I suspect mass hypnosis has propelled the book into the top 50. It was much better a few years ago. Man, that last PAD issue was one of the best ever. It was so good, that for me, it is the end of the Hulk until “The End.” Unless Peter comes back to Bruce and company someday…
I get it so I’ll try to help but I have to preface this:
I only liked the first 15 or so issues. Once the book went to an “arcs only” policy it got bad. Let me explain. Before “Dark Hearts,Dark Minds” it was one continuos story. It felt like it was just gonna keep going, paying off on occasion but really just be an entertaining story of a man’s journey across this great land helping others. Sort of “The Fugitve” meets “X-Files”. Jones put in several mysteries the biggest being who Mr. Blue is.
This all lead up to the fantasic # 49 where we found out who was responsible for the boys death and such…great stuff!Not to mention the awesome covers that seem to have become just faces…but I digress(sorry if that’s trademarked PAD).
Then came # 50 which was good, but then we started with the “arc only” method of comics. Instead of the growing conspiracy and different characters showing up and going away and such it became almost as if there was a edict handed down.”Ye shall only do stories about bad guys vs. good guys in 5 issue increments”.
I loved the flow of those first 15 issues. I loved the covers and the suspense.
Oh and as to HULK not showing up enough, technically he shows up plenty, we just don’t actually see him altogether.
I can’t really say. I read only the 25 cent comic (which was ok, but not great) and some previews. It seems ok..but from what I’ve heard: no Hulk, only Banner..I don’t know.
The issues I read of your run PAD are really good. I admit when I first read them I didn’t fully appreciate them, but after reading them I really liked them. Specially the -1 issue about Banner’s father!
I really need to read more of it. I missed a lot there.
I think though one of my favorite runs by you, maybe my favorite run by you, was Spidey 2099. That was an awesome book! I am missing a few there. I really need to get those ones of these days.
Anyway…the last time I read the Hulk regularly was at the start of Paul Jenkins run. Now his run I liked. Of course, I liked some of Byrnes, but Jenkins did good. I did fall off from Jenkins run though..not because I didn’t like it but because of money. *sigh*
I have a couple of Jenkins Hulk, a couple of Byrnes, but I think the Hulk run I have the most of is your run PAD.
I may try Hulk again some day..but from all I’ve heard of Jones run I should just wait till the next person. OR maybe just go back and get some PAD issues. Any suggestions on great PAD Hulk issues?
DF2506
Hmmn. Well, truth to tell, I guess the book works better for those who are more intrigued by Bruce than by the monster. I have read near constant howling from the monster fans from day one. The argument that the monster rarely appears is pretty universal amongst the die-hards who feel they have a stake in the book. And I know that, given your still-lauded run on the title, you might feel more comfortable with those readers’ views.
I can’t personally say I am a current reader. Falling behind nicely. And I haven’t had an opportunity to see how Bruce is making out without JR Jr. But to tell you the truth, I think I collected the issues I did, and enjoyed them immensely, because they made so little of the monster.
It is interesting just to see them attempt to do something so unlikely with a title that can so easily be relegated to the traditionalist trash heap. Too many of Marvel’s current titles, my beloved x-books included, seem more than content to tow the line and slip beneath the waves of spandex and pirate names.
It’s no doubt my age and temperment showing through, but I quite welcome the more X-Files/Spooks sort of flavour of Jones’ run. It’s a stark contrast to much of what Marvel is willing to put out. I find it rather reassuring to see them not deliberately clipping his wings the way they have so many others in the last couple of years for better sales margins, yourself included.
Few of the really standout mature titles at Marvel have been allowed to remain since the changing of the guards, and few if any of those introduced or beefed up under their tutelage have been allowed to flourish. I strongly doubt even it will go untouched. I see little evidence that the powers that be have any true longview there.
That said, I’m sorry that the title as it stands isn’t working for you. I’m not following it closely enough to offer a better opinion, but I have to admit that I probably enjoy it for its subtlety, a thing that has rarely been present in that title.
There have been few periods where I’ve been tempted to pick it up during the last couple of decades. However, I truly wouldn’t mind owning afew more of its current incarnation, before that too no doubt is swept under the carpet for a more flamboyant vision.
I liked the Paul Jenkins run. I read the first few issues after he left and dropped the series. It bored me.
I’m just not much on Marvel’s current offerings. Over the last year, my Marvel reading has dropped considerably.
Peter,
I’ve been reading and collecting the Hulk since the Tales to Astonish days. Your run on the Hulk is my favorite, although there have been some other good takes on the character. Frankly, I attempt to follow the new run but am not greatly entertained. Bring back Joe Fixit! By the by, I love your run on Captain Marvel.
“That’s not even taking into account that the Absorbing Man talks and acts nothing like the Absorbing Man of forty years standing.”
Ah, movie tie ins and the gun Marvel holds to the writer’s head.
I also find it interesting how all of the images I’ve seen of Doc Ock in future Spider-Man issues looks just like the Doc Ock from Spider-Man 2. I suppose they’ll have to change the way he acts and speaks to fit the movie version as well.
I have to agree with not liking the last five issues. Jones’ early Hulk stuff was great, making the Incredible Hulk the monster he was originally intended to be. When Hulk came out, you knew it meant only destruction, not some hero there to save the day.
Bruce Jones once said in an interview that he and his dad saw “Jaws”. When he asked his dad what he thought of the movie he replied, “It was good. But they never should have shown the shark” Jones’ applied the same theory to his early Hulk run. Don’t show the monster, and the reader will actually get excited when he does something. All Hulk all the time takes away from the anticipation of seeing a “Hulk-out” This is what I thought made the comic enjoyable to begin with. But back to these last five issues, they were just terrible. Only interesting part about it was introducing a new power to Creel, and that was even lame until they showed how messed up he could be when he threatened to slice the little girl’s throat.
All in all, “Hide in Plain Sight” could have been much better, but I’ll continue to read Jones’ run because A)I’m a die-hard Hulk fan, and 2) I wasn’t exactly impressed with PAD’s Hulk stuff untill about half way through the run (Sorry Peter!) but that all turned out gold in the end.
I lef the Hulk alone for a lot of years after PAD left, but I got back in with Jones first two trades and I then went to the monthlies with issue 42.
I have no friggin’ clue as to what in the hëll this is about anymore.
I look at the sales charts and wonder who is reading this-and why!
The initial story, introduced almost 2 years ago still has yet to see any resolutions, payoffs, or hints beyond ….crap, there hasn’t been anything.
I’ve never read anything more unfulfilling in my life.
Yet it’s a big seller.
I don’t think I’d be friends with any of those people. Waaaay too boring.
Peter, it’s not you. I’m a long-time Bruce Jones fan as well, from Ka-Zar, Twisted Tales, Unknown Worlds of Science Fiction and a few other books that I can’t remember at the moment. I picked up the Hulk again only because Jones was writing it, and for the past several months, I keep wondering why I’m buying it. The first two storylines have moved at a glacial pace. The characterization is weak or non-existent. And I’m a bit underwhelmed about the art too. Regarding the Absorbing Man storyline, you’re absolutely right: when did Crusher Creel become so erudite? Granted, he had plenty of time to read while in jail, but most of that was spent breaking out and getting his ášš kicked by Thor or the Hulk. You can’t just change 30-odd years of continuity simply because you feel like it and not get called for sloppy writing. Jones could have at least mitigated the change (if indeed he was aware of it) by slipping in a line of dialogue about spening five years in the prison library, Or maybe absorbing some of the intelligence from the brains he’s been possessing; something, anything, throw us a bone, Bruce! At any rate, that’s $2.25 that can be better spent elsewhere.
And before I forget, can we put a permanent embargo on rip-offs, swipes or homages based on Steranko’s Hulk holding up the logo? Enough is enough already.
I’ve been reading Hulk and have been planning to drop it for several months now, but I figured I’d wait it out until the end of the story that I’d ordered the first couple of parts of.
As nearly as I can make out (and I’m another one who’s been reading Hulk since he displaced Hank and Jan from Tales to Astonish), these stories don’t make a heck of a lot of sense. But I’m not one of those big conspiracy theory guys, so maybe I’m not the target market.
I like Jones Hulk. Well – its different. Its more about Banner and the evil government. Its not the most original storyline – but I feel like it does keep moving. Are things being resolved? No. But I don’t mind as long as the trip is interesting.
Keep in mind – I have never ever felt your stories moved slowly. I feel most of your work moves at a pretty brisk pace, with some sub plots simmering for a while.
Bruce Jones I feel is writing a less super-natural X-Files.
You wrote a Super-Hero book.
I like both genres.
I prefer your run (not all of it, but when it was at its best – it was great). But if both titles ran at the same time (forgetting about continuity) I would read both.
Actually Bruce Jones book would be better if it was not a part of the Marvel Universe. I don’t see why no one is helping clear Banner’s name.
Anyway – I actually don’t know if this clears anything up for you (over why its considered good).
-Kevin Hines
actually i wanted to add you’ve read the last year so probably the the 2 five part storylines which is where it was weakest. I mean you can’t really get what’s goin on unless you started at the begining of his run which is problematic, though it’s funny there are a couple of single issue stories near the begining of the run that are good (his first issue and the first story he did with doc sampson, but now it seems he can’t fit a story into 22 pages.
it seems to be something a lot of the writers nowadays have trouble with.
Peter can do it, Bendis can do it, Busiek can do it Ennis can do it, Ellis can do it. Loeb’s done it, but i don’t read a lot of his work. Moore and Gaiman can obviously.
I’m sure there are others but like loeb i don’t read enough of their work.
(I do find myself wondering if jones actually has a plotline post conspiracy. and that’s why he’s stretching it so long.)
I’ll say this though. the line in #49 where the hulk says we are a reasonable colossus struck me a very david line. (maybe you disagree, but i was struck to the similarite to the x-factor crossover where hulk is talking about how he’s a rocket scienticst and an encyclopedia and a walking tank.)
I don’t know what the current reaction to the series but i think people are really starting to demand answers to the conspiracy.
Well, I can tell you why I liked it at first. It was an interesting take on the character, some neat conspiracy stuff, some *gorgeous* artwork from John Romita Jr., and it seemed like Jones was building up some interesting mysteries and character arcs to be explored.
Two years later, he’s still building up mysteries and character arcs, JR JR is gone, and there seem to be no answers in sight. The X-Files problem all over again.
Honestly, if I could take back all my positive reviews of the early issues, having seen where the book has eventually gone, I would.
I’m pretty much in agreement with other people here, that I was enjoying the book until the last few arcs. I was actually about to drop the book when I found out that the next storyline will once again address the main plot. So I guess I’m sticking with it for a little bit longer, though I’m dubious. Good timing, I guess.
I definitely think that the previous two arcs should have been condensed. Ten issues is a long time to be away from the main plot, even if the book occasionally comes out twice a month. (Does it? I can’t remember.) In comics, it’s harder to get away with a sidestory (let alone two), given how long people have to wait between issues. Every issue needs to remind the reader, “This is why you’re reading this book. This is why a month is too long to wait for the next one.”
Well, the only Hulk run I ever really read was your’s. But, I heard such good things about Jones that I checked it out, and it wasn’t that good. I like mystery and even long lasting stories, but his writing on the series just isn’t that good.
I haven’t understood the appeal of Jones’ run from #34. He introduced one interesting idea — that Banner has learned to control the Hulk through meditation — and that is it. For the life of me, I can’t think of one instance where we have learned anything about Banner’s character. Portrayals of the Hulk have been inconsistent as well, and the dialogue has been atrocious.
Part of me suspects that Marvel’s sales numbers are jiggered, so that the book appears to be selling more but I have no idea why they would do that. On the other hand, every comic book store I’ve been to (three, west side of LA) has had plenty of issues for people who want them.
I agree that the last 5-Issue Absorbing Man plot wasn’t up to great standards, but it wasn’t a completely bad story arc.
I’ve really been enjoyed Bruce Jones take on the Hulk. Although I still love Peter’s Hulk run – this one does seem to get back to the original premiss of the Hulk: that of Hulk being hunted, and Bruce’s dealings with the monster inside.
I think Bruce Jones is using some Horror Story tactics. And although the Green side of Hulk isn’t sean as much, it packs more punch when he does show up. The end of Dark Minds, Dark Hearts, for example had a huge fight scene with Hulk and The Abomination. It was almost all action, but also dealing with the underpinnings of Emil’s ex-wife – and Banner’s new relationship with her.
You see, durring the Tales to Astonish stories, it was all one big story arch, moving from one story to another. Also Banner and Hulk where used to solve diffrent situations. (Defusing a Bomb: for Banner – Destroying Mad Aliens: Hulk) After issue #102 it slowly started to become mainly Hulk being hunted – without Banner to be seen as much.
At least thats how I see it. Having Hulk destroy for 22 pages are always good for a jolt, but Banner’s dealing with the Beast is the true core of the series. I think both Peter and Jones have done this admriably, even if it’s done in very diffrent ways.
I also am very pleased the movie didn’t strongly influence the book. Besides the Crusher Creel Arc, it hasn’t looked like the movie at all – and I like the fact when comics don’t try to emulate a movie altogether so much.
Also, the only realy problem I had with the arc was that, prior to this story, Creel was being used by Dan Jurgans in Thor. Creel hasn’t shown up since then, which I hope they don’t do – just for the sake of keeping Continuity in tact. Although I think a logical explaination would be, since Creel reformed for Thor, Thor insisted Creel pay for his crimes. Thus him being in that prison, and probably all but too pìššëd at being back there. (Yet he still might be a Thor worshiper, but still not liking other Superheros)
Anyway, that was my biggest complaint, above all about his use in this story. The Mind Control thing, I believe, while weird, was a logical extention of his powers – and how the Original Asgardian Magic may have developed with him over the years. (Basicly he learned a new trick)
Sorry, Pad, can’t tell you why you don’t like it – but there are readers like me who like it. I’ve read old Hulk issues, your issues, and even Paul Jenkin’s issues. I’ve loved them all. Maybe it’s just becuase of my age, not being that old, that I have a more accepting nature to the diffrent takes on the series. (After all, what you like the first time is usually what you like the most. People who saw your run, and Angry Hulk for so many years, that seeing him diffrent is a change some don’t like or accept.)
Honestly I think the main reason it is so popular is simple marketing and promotion. I read the book before Jones came along and you definitely got the impression that it was a second-tier title that Marvel never felt the need to advertise or promote in any way. The we had the movie going into production and suddenly a huge hype factory was cranked up about the amazing new “smart” take on the Hulk by Bruce Jones. And the book started to get some really cool and beautiful cover art.
People sometimes group together all those who don’t like Jones run as people who want more Hulk smashing, more Hulk in general, more action etc. While all of those things would be nice, the book has bigger problems even. New fans may praise the book becuase it “focuses on Bruce Banner and not the monster”. I couldn’t disagree more. Who the hëll is Jones’s Banner? He is a bland well-intentioned protagonist who wanders the country aimlessly like some benevolent hobo. Any personality, motivations, desires, opinions on his current plight and or plans to get out of it have been sucked out of his head by Jones who has stated on more than one occaion that he sees Banner as an “everyman” character. So we are left with a guy who stumbles from issue to issue, occasionally sleeping with some woman who is trying to kill him.
The whole time he is stalked by a nameless, faceless pointless organisation led by “the mouth” which devises ever more unlikely and incompetent schemes to obtain a sample of Hulk’s blood. These guys have all the great ideas. “I know! Lets surgically implant a camera into Doc Samsons eye.” Unfortunately Samson woke up with perfect eyesight and naturally assumed that while he was asleep a group of secret agents had kidnapped him and surgically implanted a camera in his eye. He is clever like that. This was after he was punched several hundred metres through the ceiling of a roadside diner, landed shaken but still conscious and was promptly knocked out from behind by a woman carrying a stick. Amazing stuff. And critics gushed the whole time about this new realistic “smart” take on the Hulk. I haven’t even mentioned the series highlight when that secret agent was electrocuted in his chair by the ruthless Mouth a la Austin Powers. I guess they had run out of sharks with fricking laser beams on their heads.
But Banner has faced some pretty nasty and dangerous individual opponents hasn’t he. Well one in any case. Whether it is his own creation or an established character all Jones’ villains use the same interchangeable dialogue, no matter how they may have behaved in the past. “Ah, the redoubtable Dr Banner, so pleased you could make it. I did so enjoy our last discussion on Coleridge…”” blah, blah.
The whole idea of not showing the Hulk to build suspense that Jones got from his boyhood trip to the movies would be great except for one thing. We have already seen the Hulk for the past thirty years, we have seen what he looks like, how he acts and we have seen him portrayed a hëll of a lot better than we are now. Its not suspenseful, its just annoying.
As to why I continue to buy the Hulk, thats because I love the character and would, god help me, probably keep buying it if it got even worse. And I’ve nobody to blame but myself for that. But that is the psychology that you must understand to understand why people buy the book of an established character like Hulk when they aren’t even enjoying it whereas Captain Marvel would probably struggle no matter how well it was written. I know thats not the answer to the question you asked but its somewhat relevant.
Again asto why Jones Hulk is popular: hype, the movie build-up, pretty covers, a nice familiar conspiracy story just like off TV and relentless, thoughtless critical praise.
hh
I’m 30 years-old and have been a comic book reader and collector for 27 years. I learned to read from issues of Superman and The Hulk. Maybe this is why the two characters appeal to me the most. My Hulk collection started with an issue featuring the Leader. I don’t recall the issue number right now.
That being said, I have got to agree with Peter on this. Bruce’s stories are crawling at a snail’s pace, and many plot threads are still dangling in the air for me. He’s telling a story in five issues when it can be easily told in two or three issues.
I also don’t like his characterization of Doc Samson. He seems to have become more like the Samson of the early 1970’s for me. I kept hoping Jones would do something new with the characters. Instead, I feel like I’m getting a rehashing of the old “Bruce Banner on the run trying to clear his name” story mixed in with “X-Files” rerun scripts.
I loved the way Peter and Paul Jenkins handled the characters in The Hulk because they wrote in a way that made ALL of the characters intersting for me, and added unexpected twists to the various stories they did.
Jones, however, is writing slow, predictable stories that seem to be flushing continuity down the toilet. I keep sticking with the Hulk hoping a new writer will come along. In other words, I don’t understand the popularity of the Bruce Jones run either. He’s capable of writing horror and science fiction, but his Hulk stories leave me disappointed.
P.S.
Where the hëll is the Hulk in the Bruce Jones stories? We see very little of him. The comic book IS called THE INCREDIBLE HULK, not BRUCE BANNER.
James Heath Lantz
PAD,
Maybe I’m mistaken or have you mistaken with another columnist somewhere, but I thought in a recent BID column (a few months back maybe?) you highly praised Bruce Jones’s run on the Hulk?
Anyway, I personally find Bruce Jones’s run on the Hulk way too drawn out and boring. Nothing really happens and nothing seems to get resolved. When I read Jones’s first arc, I thought it was pretty good and a nice change of pace… but little did I know that Jones would turn out to be a one trick pony. I read the INCREDIBLE HULK because I like reading about the Hulk, but he’s usually MIA (sure, he appears on the covers, but that’s usually it!). They might as well just retitle this comic to “The Incredibly Drawn-out Adventures of Bruce Banner” and start another title that actually stars the Hulk.
I’ve been reading Bruce Jones Hulk since #34, and whilst I’ve liked it for the most part the last story arc was one of the lamest I’ve ever read.
But, as to why the book is so popular … I think a lot of that has to do with the artists.
Let’s see the roll call –
1. Johm Romita Jr.
2. Lee Weeks
3. Stuart Immomen
4. Mike Deodato Jr.
And well, okay, 5. Leo Fernandez.
But that kinda proves my point. Arc number 5, with arguably the weakest artwork of the run so far, is the arc that no one likes.
I know that if Mike wasn’t coming back for arc 6 I wouldn’t be either. Jones’ stories just aren’t doing anything for me at this point.
Honestly, Bruce Jones may be creating Hulk’s worst stories EVER.
First, the lack of Hulk got tiring, predictable and very stale.
Second, all characters speak the same way.
Third, all villains are sexual abusers (hah!).
Fourth, the title has NO respect for continuity (not even with Jones’ own continuity, as he never ceases do contradict his own stories).
Fifth, all women seem to be one-nighters.
Sixth, the Absorbing Man story was WAY beyond the pale. His new powers are ridiculous and weren’t even explained. And the end of last issue, where Absorbing Man died after “absorbing” a dead person, was ridiculous, since he always absorbed the abilities of non-sentient beings (rocks, bones, glass etc.). Plus, I’d love if someone cared to explain WHY or HOW his mind was sent to the body of a newborn in China.
Seventh, too many unended/ unexplained subplots (conspiracies, eh?).
Eigth, Banner and all other characters behave like morons.
Ninth, the pacing is way too slow.
Tenth, Super Banner is ridiculous.
God, how we miss you, PAD!
In all honesty, I keep buying the book because I like the Hulk as a character. I remember when I used to wait in anticipation for the next part of the story. This doesn’t happen anymore, I simply “read” the issue, and come away from it not feeling anything.
I would find it extremely difficult to persuade someone else to read The Hulk, from the current storylines alone.
In fac, the single thing that I feel is hurting this book the most is the seemingly enforced 5 or 6 issue story arcs. What used to feel like an ongoing saga, now feels like a series of unconnected mini-series’.
Maybe after 30-odd years of ‘Hulk punches bad guy in the head’ it’s nice to see someone try something else. I agree, it’s taking too long to resolve things but, as someone who left Hulk even before you did, it sure was nice to hear Jones was doing something with The Hulk that seemed different and original. So I can see why Jones’s run *became* popular, as to why it’s *staying* popular — hello? Since when do comic fans stop reading books just because they stop enjoying them?
I read Jones’ run until issue 50, at which point I dropped it like a bad habit (well, honestly, I tend to keep my bad habits, but anyway).
Having read the Hulk for over 20 years, my only answer to your question is an echo of what the poster Hal Henke wrote. Marketing and promotion.
I don’t want to sound like a pessimist, but the fact is, in a lot of cases, if you tell people something is “new and refreshing” they will believe it.
For example, a buddy of mine was arguing with me a few days ago about whether or not THE ULTIMATES was a good read. He kept using the words “witty,” “edgy,” and “sharp” over and over again. The fact that he kept using these particular words, and words like them, struck me a little funny. They weren’t the kinds of words he would normally use. They WERE, however, the kinds of words a reviewer of comic books at Wizard or any number of comic book websites would use.
I think if we read about a comic, whether or not it lives up to our expectations, sometimes we let ourselves believe it did, regardless. Particularly when it’s one of a whole truckload of titles being re-vamped in this new “sharp,” “witty,” and “edgy” style. It’s probably something hard for folks to swallow. No one likes to think of themselves as being easy prey for marketing and promotion, but if you think that’s not the case, just remember that crappy film about a sinking boat actually won an Oscar.
Okay, somebody let me know if this makes any sense:
I quit reading Bruce Jones’ Hulk after the first issue of the return of the Abomination. I agree about the snails’ pacing. I agree about nothing happening. I agree about it seeming that he’s almost ashamed of the Hulk character. Those are all reasons I dropped it.
But…
I can see why some continue to buy. It is true that Bruce is not writing the Hulk. He is writing X-Files. However, there are many X-Files fans out there, and Bruce does a good job of building tension and intrigue (though he never resolves it). This is, in an odd sense, an ideal format for the serial comics fan; always leading you on, and if you don’t think too hard about what you’ve read or what you’re reading, you may not really notice that it’s not going anywhere. And most people don’t think too hard about it. So there is an inertia that Bruce is pretty successful at exploiting with his constant dramatic build-ups, so much so that people forget that they aren’t resolved simply by virtue of the fact that they’re caught up in the next issue’s dramatic build-up. So, those of us who look at series in the bigger picture are going to say “Where’s the beef?” while the rest are going to say “I can’t wait for next issue!”
Note; I am not one of those who say “All comics have some redeeming value.” I am thoroughly convinced that Uncanny X-Men is selling solely because it is Uncanny X-Men, and that there are many more people who WON’T buy it because of Chuck Austen, than those that buy it because of him.
But even though I don’t particularly care for Bruce Jones’ Hulk, I can definitely see that it has a specific appeal to a specific audience; the audience that likes the style, the mood, and isn’t all that concerned with a story actually meaning something. Does that explanation make sense?
“As to why I continue to buy the Hulk, thats because I love the character and would, god help me, probably keep buying it if it got even worse. And I’ve nobody to blame but myself for that.”
Actually, I will blame PAD. I find myself in the same boat; wanting my Hulk fix, and I blame Mr. David. And I know where and when my habit started.
I was at my grandma’s funeral with my whole family. After dinner one evening, we went to a drug store to pick up a few things and I wandered around, eventually stopping by the comic section of the magazine rack. I saw Superman and Flash and a few others. I knew the names and faces from the TV cartoons, but didn’t realize there were magazines about them. My Grandpa asked me if I wanted some and of course I said yes. I was reading Supes and Flash now. (That’s not Mr. David’s fault). I found a comic shop near my home and became a regular. The owner saw what I was reading and asked if I was interested in anything new. He offered (ON THE HOUSE!!!) a comic that had been around for awhile but had a new writer start. It was Hulk #330. I was hooked. I liked the way the story was written and it appealed to me on a level that I appreciated all of those years ago, and can appreciate on a different level now. So yes, I am addicted and need my FIX, and I blame PAD. But you’ll never hear me ‘complain’ about that.
What I would like to know, and hopefully get a response to, is why Marvel allows such blatant miscontinuity in it’s comics? Everyone that has posted already has stated what they like or don’t like. My personal feelings about not seeing the Hulk in his own book are that it is a waste of time. I know people that count the panels and pages and get excited about that. Is it me or is that just sad? But that is a different issue… why is it allowed that a writer can completely change the history of characters with no explanation. The incidents with Nadia Blonsky and the Abomination smacking her around, Absorbing Mans apparent attitude change, the misuse of Banner and Samson, etc. I just want to know why.
Thanks for reading.
What has always bothered me about the Hulk is the lack of evolution of either the Hulk or of Banner. PAD’s run changed that wonderfully, then when he left, it got worse.
Banner was used to being superhuman but had no problem casting that aside and being a recluse. Banner SHOULD have changed drastically, found being merely human frustrating, AND his considerable brain should be wrapping itself around some real challenges in new and fascinating ways, not through passive-agression.
Either that or he should be so panic stricken about any change that he becomes mentally unstable (hard to do a book with that, but an arc or two would be nice).
Ah well, it’s not like I read comics anymore anyway. 🙁
Okay, I’m gonna get slammed here, but I’m reading how many people don’t like or understand the book anymore, and the thought occurs to me (and this doesn’t specifically apply to HULK, tho’ it’s not my cup of bacon personally):
Why are you still picking it up?
Why do you continue to blow hard-earned money month after month on a comic you’ve clearly lost interest in? Just to keep your run complete? Hoping it will get better, but seeing month after month it’s not to your tastes?
Why not just drop the book from your reading list if you’re not ENJOYING it?
Or, as Ernie Fossilus might say:
“You’ll laugh, you’ll cry, you’ll kiss three bucks goodbye.”
I have to agree with Peter. I kept buying the book hoping for something to happen. Although it had its moments, on the whole it as been a pretty boring run. This story line was the last straw for me. I have taken the book off my pull list and wont be picking up the Hulk for the first time since Peter left.
It is a slow book, but it has a steady tone (though very long) and is able to keep it. Plus after the reboot of the Hulk *shudder* it now seems much better. I do hope they wrap stuff up and get things going smoother, but I have a feeling that some of the stuff was related to other issues [big number 50, tie in with the movie, make arcs 5-6 issues for trade paperback, etc…] that caused story the story to get longer and longer.
I was with it all through the Abomination storyline (which did, indeed, drag, but was at least done so with “purty pitchers”).
I read the first two of the Absorbing Man story and jumped off the bus.
How long until we find out that the supervisor with the plastic surgery is really Betty Banner?
Ok here’s a potential spoiler if I’ve pieced the clues together properly. I believe I’ve deduced the identity of MR. BLUE, and if it’s who I think it is, I’m very curious to know what you think of this Peter. So I’m going to put it in the happy inviso thread just to be safe…
OK. I tried three times to make it inviso and it isn’t working for some reason so with that I’ll just put…
SPOILERS.
It’s been revealed that Mr. Blue is a woman, who has had extensive plastic surgery done to conceal her true identity, and she works for an agency which can apparently resurrect the dead. Even a moron could figure out that it’s Betty Banner..
Some people on a few boards I’ve posted this theory on have stated that this is a slap in the face to all PAD fans. I was just wondering what your reaction was to this turn of events. That is if they turn out to be true.
It doesn’t sell though. The sales charts for the last few months were out-of-whck because stores wanted to have issue in case the movie became a big hit. It wasn’t. Call any store and they’re chocking on copies of Hulk. The next sales chart should reflect a huge drop on sales of Hulk.
PAD,
Do you ever still read the Hulk Message Boards? You visited about a year ago, and it was great. I was just curious, because if you went there, you’d see that almost *none* of the posters there are enjoying this latest take. I mean, there are people on that board who love your work and people who hate it (as you well know), but it’s almost unanimous about Bruce Jones’ stint — which is that it’s terrible.
It was really sad, for a while — there was a period there where it seemed like every other day, someone would post to say, “Well… I’m finished. I’ve stopped collecting Hulk for the first time in years of collecting.” (I was one of ’em … I dropped the book like a hot potato after seeing the way Jones completely gutted your Nadia Blonsky character — did you have any thoughts on that development, by the way?)
The only thing I can think of is that a lot of people have been taken in by the massive push of the book into believing things about the run that are patently untrue — we get the occasional new poster to the boards who likes Jones, and he’ll say something like, “This is so much more interesting than just ‘Hulk smash’ all the time.”
To which someone will typically reply, “Yeah, maybe … but then the comic book was never just ‘Hulk smash’ all the time, and in fact that version of the character hasn’t been the star of the comic for for 20 years.” To which the original poster typically has nothing whatsoever to say.
So, who knows? For me personally, it’s not so much the pacing of the stories (I don’t think slow-paced arcs are automatically bad), or even the fact that the Hulk often shows up off-panel. For me, it’s just that the stories themselves are so crushingly *bad*. Terrible dialogue, cookie-cutter supporting characters, storylines that are a smack in the face the stories of previous characters (again: Nadia), and worst of all, a Bruce Banner with no seeming personality or agenda — these are the things that finally made me say “No more.”
Oops. “Previous characters” should be “previous writers” in the above post. Sorry.
I’m just curious to see how many of your old stories Marvel is going to let him ignore or contradict. Your run showed that the Abomination was a tortured man who loved Nadia and decided not to reveal his identity to her because she might see him as a monster. In Jones run, Abomination is a mysogenist wife-beater. I guess shades of gray make villains too complex for Bruce Jones. And for some reason, Nadia somehow knows the Abomination’s identity, while Bruce miraculously forgets her, despite saving her (IH #384) and using footage of her to torture Emil (IH #25). And let’s not forget your final contribution to the title — the death of Betty Banner. Now she’s an espionage agent who infiltrated HomeBase to keep Bruce updated on their movements. While she’s out doing this for him, Bruce sleeps with everything that moves.
I’ve liked most of the Jones run, though (apparently like everyone else here) the most recent arc was a pretty total loss for me.
One thing that I think a lot of PAD’s run has in common with the early parts of Jones’ run is a sense of foreboding. There are light spots to be sure — smaller victories here, good jokes there — but the Hulk is generally considered Not A Good Thing to have around or to have unleashed, and I think both writers captured that fairly well in different ways.
Now, whether the book gets back on course after the last arc or two, I dunno. I think he gets another storyline or two before I decide he’s just headed in directions I don’t like.
TWL
Jones started out doing the “Unbreakable” thing… instead of what everyone expected, he gave us a character study. Which is fine. But too much character study and not enough story and action makes Homer go something something.
They need to get a grip. And Jones needs to see what works at one point in time does not work constantly. A character needs to be dynamic and grow. And if they do not, then they stagnate.
Travis
if “taste” meant anything to people alias #22, Powers #31, and Y the Last Man #11 wouldn’t be coming in 75, 79 and 80 overall.
o btw: That same month, Namor #2 managed to come in 43, outselling those three titles as well as another you might have heard of “Captain Marvel”.
remember people buy comics
1)For character
2)For the art
3)For the ads
4)For the letter column
5)For the Greg Horn cleavage Cover
6)For the chance to meet “comic babes”
7)For the chance to seal them in plastic cocoons so no one EVER reads them.
8)Then…FINALLY for the writing. As a writer myself PAD im sorry but its true.