So I’ve been reading HULK for the past year, determined to wrap myself around why it is that the book is so beloved.
Guys…is it me? Be honest. Seriously. Am I so biased that I’m simply *incapable* of understanding the book’s success? Don’t get me wrong: Bruce Jones, perfectly good writer Loved his stuff on Ka-Zar.
But, my God, people say *I* drag out stories? Snails could do windsprints around this pacing. The latest storyline is pretty much the last straw for me. Five issues to tell a story in which the Hulk makes no significant appearance until the last issue…at which time, unless I’m reading it wrong, he did nothing to aid in the resolution of the story. That’s not even taking into account that the Absorbing Man talks and acts nothing like the Absorbing Man of forty years standing.
Yet fans support the book by the carload.
Really, I desperately want to understand the popularity. Someone explain it to me.
PAD
• 
PAD I think you raise a great question when you ponder the type of readership that is supporting Jones’ Hulk.
Who are they? Jones’ fans, twenty-somethings, thirty or forty-somethings? Who?
Has storytelling style changes so much that dragging out a story has become the norm?
You could argue thatClaremont (X-men) more or less started it but (usually with secondary storylines) but since then it’s the main story that gets dragged on, and on and on.
Why is PAD not forgiven and other storytellers are? Could it be the character? Hulk did have a TV series that (storytelling-wise) focused more on Banner than Hulk.
Or as they said back then “another rip off of the Fugitive fomula”
People (comic book readers) may be more ‘accepting’ of this ‘version’. Still doesn’t excuse the dragging of story lines.
Supergirl? Just a forgettable movie. No ‘psychological’ cushion to rest on there.
I don’t have any easy answers. Anyone?
It isn’t just you, chief. The sad thing is, I’m guilty of reading the book despite the fact that I hate the story directions, the misuse of characters, and the distinct lack of Big Green. I hang on because I love Jones’s dialogue, which can be both fascinating and, at times, a laugh riot even while the story itself is deteriorating into nonsense. Of course, now I can get that in KINGPIN without seeing him muck up the Hulk….and the second Mike Deodato leaves TIH again (LOVE that man’s work), I’m gone.
A thought to ponder: You, Peter, like Bruce Jones’s work on Ka-Zar, a lesser-known character without a lot of established continuity beyond his origin. I enjoy his KINGPIN series, where he deals with a portion of Wilson Fisk’s life that has had very little light shed upon it up until now. Maybe the problem is that Bruce Jones has a problem with “coloring inside the lines” of established continuity, and works best as far outside of it as possible?
Keep writing and I’ll keep reading,
Chuck Williams
I’ve been a Hulk fan for years, but Bruce Jones has done what no other writer has ever been able to do… bored me to tears. I kept giving Jones the benefit of the doubt, thinking the book’s conspiracy would pay off big and be a HUGE surprise. Here’s the surprise, I don’t care any more.
I got two issues into this completely out-of-character Absorbing Man story and on the third issue, finally told my comic book store enough. Don’t pull it for me any more.
The Hulk, like every other Marvel comic is suffering from the same thing, they’re not connected. For some reason, Jemas and Quesada issued a mandate or something that every book is in it’s own universe. And I’m not talking about things like the Ultimate Universe. I mean in the mainstream. There is nothing connecting any of the characters any more. They’re all in their own little shoe boxes. Events in one book no longer have ANY kind of impact at all. Heck, except for team books like the Avengers, no other character is even mentioned.
Marvel has gone so movie happy that they want each comic to remain separate in their own little franchise, terrified that if they remained true to the characters, they’ll lose the movies. But aren’t the characters what got them the movies? Basically they’re killing thier own franchises.
I appologize for the rant, which I readily admit should be directed at the people I blame for the creative slump Marvel Comics is in, but I needed to get this off my chest.
I really have a new distate for the Hulk. I think they just need to rename the series Bruce Banner: Agent of Sheild… that way it’s not confusing at all and every five issues you can proclaim on the cover “guest starring Hulk!”
And on top of that, I don’t think the Hulk has been this least increadible in his 40 years of existance. I mean has he done anything of signaficance he the whole of Bruce Jones run, besides beat up a few bad guys and save Banner’s butt.
I miss the Hulk. But at least Banner isn’t changing jobs every few issues? You know… “got to find a cure… oh look I can get a job at a seedy casino or an oil rig or at a football stadium. Surely I won’t get angry working as a jaintor.”
OK… one person said that Banner, following the tradition of the Everyman, has little overt character development, which in effect means that Banner’s has developed into an Everyman and will thus develop no further. Several chimed into say they think Jones’ run reads better in trades. Rich Johnston says the pace appeals to him, but doesn’t address the glaring lack of characterization…
Not to be too rude, but is this really the best Jones’ defenders can come up with? Well, if you read it *this* way, then the glaring lack of characterization and glacial pacing aren’t quite so noticeable? Egad.
Best,
Deron
I’m buying the book in trades. Reads better that way. My wife loves it. The new regimen at Marvel tends to ignore everything that came before them, the Hulk coffe table book is evidence of this. I am not surprised at the new characterization of Absorbing Man
Honestly, I liked your Aquaman and Spider-Man more than Hulk. I loved a few single issue stories like the Crazy 8 story and the one where MR Fixit slaps the Punisher (someone show Ennis that issue). I really liked the gray Hulk in Vegas but didn’t care for the Pantheon and ohers storylines. You write good superhero stuff but Jones is doing something that is not superheroish. Also, I think rationning the Hulk makes the impact of his appereances bigger.
I am biased. I stopped reading the Hulk after that David guy let. I’m just waiting for his next book of Star Trek: New Frontier.
I was only jokingly questioning what’s wrong with Banner gettin’ some lovin’. Of course it is completely out of character for Bruce Banner, but as this so-called “everyman” charcter it fits.
How many guys are going to turn down a hot, blonde Russian dancer (yikes!) who strips down naked right in front of them???
Can’t we just be glad Banner’s finally gettin’ some? 🙂 IT’s about the only ACTION going on in Jone’s run.
I stopped following a book for characters or artists a long time ago – I’m primarily a follower of writers. I’ll usually give a new writer on a book 3-6 issues to hook me. So, I used to enjoy Bill Mantlo’s run on Hulk – not fantastic work but I thought it was fun. Thought Byrne’s first Hulk run was pretty good – the physical separation of Bruce from the Hulk was a pretty cool idea to me. Was thoroughly hooked on PAD’s run – through every iteration Hulk/Bruce went through, I loved it all. Didn’t care for Jenkins’ run and dropped it after probably the second issue. Same with Byrne’s second run – just didn’t click with me. Read the first tpb of Jones’ run (I missed the first couple of issues, so I waited for the trade) and was completely and utterly bored to tears. It was so boring, I can’t tell you what it was about – not a good sign when the only thing I can remember about a trade is that I kept falling asleep.
So basically, PAD has ruined the Hulk for me – he set the bar too fricking high and, for me at least, nobody has come even remotely close to nailing it.
When I said Jones’ HULK is the most “true in spirit,” I meant because he has finally nailed the two most important facets of the character: Making Bruce Banner important and making Hulk-outs count for something.
No offense to PAD, as I said I enjoyed much of his run, but it wasn’t the Hulk. He wrote Bruce Banner completely out of the series (and Hulk for that matter)! His was a unique take, much like an Ultimates take, but it wasn’t very true in spirit.
As for the lack of Hulk appearances. I just read this month’s Ultimate Spider-Man and the whole issue was Aunt May talking about her feelings. No battles, almost no Spidey. And I enjoyed it. I’m past the age that I want to see people in goofy underwear beating up other guys in goofy underwear for 22 pages.
In other words, Joe Q had a good commentary on this about 6 months back. Basically, he said Marvel isn’t worried about these 10-year olds everybody claims “should be marketed toward” and is instead concentrating on his adult audience. So basically, if your still of the mentality that you want to see super-powered folk smashing sh*t up for 22 pages, perhaps a Marvel comic isn’t for you.
As for characterization, I see plenty. The fact that Bruce is even in the comic (when he wasn’t for so many years, don’t give me PAD’s Hulk, he was basically Donald Duck, a funny animal book) makes the series more compelling. And, look, I’ve read comics for 20 years but I can’t tell you every Abomination issue. I’m not going to go and research it. I don’t care how he acted back in 1982. If the story is good now, that’s all I care about.
As for the pacing, again, Marvel has a new philosophy. I read Ultimate books, Daredevil, ASM, SSM, Hulk, Cap and Punisher. None of them are paced fast. I actually have a subscrip to ASM (I got caught up in movie-mania) and I blow through each ish in 10 minutes. I learned my lesson on the others and buy tpbs. Point is, Marvel isn’t written to be read monthly any more and so complaining about it is like complaining about commercials on broadcast tv. Its how it is, either live with it or find something else to spend time on.
Best–Chris
He has not made Bruce Banner important. He has made Bruce Banner two-dimensional. He’s also reduced Banner’s IQ a few hundred points and seems to have made him an amnesiac.
Plus it’s only been a few years back (our time) that the Hulk was accused of killing a few hundred people aboard a passenger plane… but this one kid’s death is supposed to affect the nation’s opinion of Banner and make him an outcast? What was he before?
The Hulk-outs count for nothing. Look at #52– there was no point to that. The Hulk appears–finally–and then promptly transforms back to Banner when slapped.
Point: Non-existent.
PAD wrote Banner out of the series? Then who was that who kept transforming every night up until IH #377–and who or what was he transforming into? Whose personalities were struggling for control during the Pantheon storyline? Physically, Banner may not have appeared often between IH #377 and #460… but he was there in spirit for most of it.
Many writers of the comic have had Bruce Banner in control of the Hulk at least for a short time. Mantlo had him in control for a couple of years. PAD had him struggling for control–losing the battle a few times–for about five.
Your Ultimate Spider-Man reference is not a good one. Take that same Ultimate Spider-Man and have it drag for five months with Spider-Man only making a notable appearance in the fifth month. Rinse, repeat. Then tell me that you enjoyed it.
Would it be worth the $20+ that you spent on it?
I don’t want to see super-powered folks smashing things for 22 pages month after month. I want characters written IN CHARACTER with a good plot and story month after month. This is something Jones has not shown he can do with the Hulk.
If you’ve read the book for twenty years and call PAD’s Hulk a “funny animal” book then I’d suggest re-reading.
As for continuity, I’m not asking Jones to go back to the early hundreds to see how the Abomination acted in those days. I’m asking that he check on the details of events he references.
You know, “minor” details like the fact the Abomination was NOT present when Betty died and did NOT look into her eyes and see her fear as Jones had him claim.
The pacing is beyond slow. It’s not there. All we’ve done is tread water. Same thing that was established two years ago is still the status quo now. The only changes that have been made is castrating Emil Blonsky and making the Absorbing Man unrecognizable.
Change isn’t always good.
Well-said, Jonathan.
I don’t read “Hulk” but I *am* confused about why Wizard #144 refers to the current Fantastic Four storyline as if it was great when I think it is painfully horrible (I’ve even written angry e-mails to Marvel to try and calm down over how the book’s been butchered). . .Everyone I talk to agrees that the book sucks now (though with an investment of about 300 back issues I’m not going to stop buying FF) and yet Wizard announces its greatness. Sorry for the sort of off topic rant. 🙂
Can one really use the term “popular” with a publication that circulates less than 100K?
Hulk was at 55Kish a couple months ago and is at 75Kish now, around a 40% increase.
But that is only 20K more copies.
That is an average of 400 copies per state. Maybe one or two more sold per store.
If only one in 1000 Hulk movie viewers grabbed an issue out of curiosity, you could produce this surge.
Comicbooks are really in the “Creative Anachronism” space and are no longer a part of popular culture. The comicbook reader market is SO small that any nudge from the popular sector (the Hulk Movie) can cause massive swings that completely overwelm the numbers of the core market.
I believe these readers will return to (or maintain) their status as non-comicbook readers as soon as the story arc is over.
“In other words, Joe Q had a good commentary on this about 6 months back. Basically, he said Marvel isn’t worried about these 10-year olds everybody claims “should be marketed toward” and is instead concentrating on his adult audience.”
The problem is that when you get that 10 year old, you get him (or her) in a way that you simply can’t get a 20 or 30 year old. The adult audience that Quesada talks about is overwhelming made up of adults who actually started reading comics as kids. When we drift away as every generation of readers eventually does, the next generation of adults WILL NOT HAVE READ COMICS AS KIDS. Good luck trying to get them to start.
Mike
“When I said Jones’ HULK is the most “true in spirit,” I meant because he has finally nailed the two most important facets of the character: Making Bruce Banner important and making Hulk-outs count for something.”
I completely disagree that these are the most important facets of the character. To me PADs Future Imperfect went to the heart of the character better than any other story written about the character. It depicted the ultimate nightmare that the Hulk had always promised come to life. Not that pure and noble Bruce would turn into the Hulk and smash some stuff, mybe inadvertantly killing a small boy, but that the evil, the lust for power, strength, domination of the Hulk would seduce a Bruce Banner who had grown tired of trying to fight it and the world. Jekyll and Hyde had merged and Jekyll had decided Hyde wasn’t such a bad fella after all. It is so much more powerful a concept than the insipid TV derived direction that Jones has put forth.
“No offense to PAD, as I said I enjoyed much of his run, but it wasn’t the Hulk. He wrote Bruce Banner completely out of the series (and Hulk for that matter)!”
Quite sincerely what are you talking about here? The merged Hulk? Bruce changed, the Hulk changed, they both evolved. If being completely identical to previous versions of the character is what you value how can you say that Jones intermittently mute Hulk and vacant Banner are any more valid than PADs take that “wasn’t the Hulk.”
“His was a unique take, much like an Ultimates take, but it wasn’t very true in spirit.
As for the lack of Hulk appearances. I just read this month’s Ultimate Spider-Man and the whole issue was Aunt May talking about her feelings. No battles, almost no Spidey. And I enjoyed it.”
Good for you. I enjoy The Ultimates and Ultimate Xmen and they are hardly all-out every issue slugfests. However stuff does happen, characters are developed (and not just peripheral characters whose lives Bruce changes as he passes through them every arc a la TV series such as Kung Fu, The Fugitive, Quantum Leap, Touched By an Angel and last but not least The Incredible Hulk TV show) and it is interesting. Would you have enjoyed the issue as much if it had spent half the time focussing on cool faceless guys in black suits and sunglasses called S567 shooting one another
and trying to get a sample of Spidemans blood?
“I’m past the age that I want to see people in goofy underwear beating up other guys in goofy underwear for 22 pages.”
Once again I am happy for you. Have never experienced such strange desires myself. But it is nice of you to implicitly characterise all those who dislike Jones Hulk run as morons who want to see some kind of homoerotic, semi-naked boxing match every issue.
“In other words, Joe Q had a good commentary on this about 6 months back. Basically, he said Marvel isn’t worried about these 10-year olds everybody claims “should be marketed toward” and is instead concentrating on his adult audience. So basically, if your still of the mentality that you want to see super-powered folk smashing sh*t up for 22 pages, perhaps a Marvel comic isn’t for you.”
Again this attempt to deflect valid criticisms of the quality of writing by building up a straw man with a frontal lobotomy and a penchant for pictures of sh*t blowing up as your opponent is both patronising and ultimately does nothing for your argument.
“As for characterization, I see plenty. The fact that Bruce is even in the comic (when he wasn’t for so many years, don’t give me PAD’s Hulk, he was basically Donald Duck, a funny animal book) makes the series more compelling.”
PAD’s Hulk was basically Donald Duck?! Sweet Jesus what the f*ck does that mean? If you are of the mentality that you cannot appreciate nor understand the subtelties that were present in many aspects of his Hulk run perhaps a PAD comic isn’t for you.
hh
“And, look, I’ve read comics for 20 years but I can’t tell you every Abomination issue. I’m not going to go and research it. I don’t care how he acted back in 1982. If the story is good now, that’s all I care about.
As for the pacing, again, Marvel has a new philosophy. I read Ultimate books, Daredevil, ASM, SSM, Hulk, Cap and Punisher. None of them are paced fast. I actually have a subscrip to ASM (I got caught up in movie-mania) and I blow through each ish in 10 minutes. I learned my lesson on the others and buy tpbs. Point is, Marvel isn’t written to be read monthly any more and so complaining about it is like complaining about commercials on broadcast tv. Its how it is, either live with it or find something else to spend time on.
Best–Chris”
Chris said:
No offense to PAD, as I said I enjoyed much of his run, but it wasn’t the Hulk. He wrote Bruce Banner completely out of the series (and Hulk for that matter)! His was a unique take, much like an Ultimates take, but it wasn’t very true in spirit.>>
I didn’t care much for the merged Hulk storyline in retrospect but the Gray Hulk era was brilliant and very little since has touched it. And even the merged Hulk storyline had decent pacing and complete stories.
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Then maybe you shouldn’t read superhero comics. I mean, why bother with a genre that doesn’t appeal to you? Why try to turn ice cream into spinach or vice versa? There are even other options in your comic book store if you want to read talking heads.
I like superhero comics. It appeals to the kid in me (there’s also the larger than life, mythological element). If I want something different, though, I read Wuthering Heights or Anna Karenina. I find that the people who want to turn superhero comics into “something more mature” only read superhero comics. They want it to be everything in the world to them.
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That’s idiotic. You lose the younger fans, you’re not going to have an adult audience in ten years. I’m honestly curious as to what he expects the readership to look like in the next decade. I already know fans around my age who have gotten married and have kids and because of that responsibility don’t spend as much on comics. So your audience ages, has other priorities… looks like your company is SOL.
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Uhm, that’s who a Marvel Comic should be for. It’s not Proust. It’s not Nietzsche. If you want to read about an old lady talking about her feelings, read Virginia Woolf.
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“Bruce” is not in the comic. PAD gave us more characterization with Bruce Banner in Hulk #372, for example, than most writers since have done. PAD really invested a great deal of emotion and depth into Bruce Banner. A funny animal book? That’s not even a valid argument. Yes, there was humor in the title. Sometimes it was superfluous, but Bruce’s reaction to discovering that Betty had lost her child (“Probably for the best… would have been a freak like his dad”) was heartbreaking and is not what you find in a “funny animal book.”
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No, it’s like complaining that a weekly TV series isn’t written to be watched weekly and that it’s geared for the DVD box set. Remember how fans reacted to the last season of Buffy? Yes, I enjoy watching Buffy’s first three seasons on DVD, but when they originally aired, each episode had a beginning, middle, and end. That’s pacing.
While I enjoyed the first eyar or so of Jones’s run, I agree with the critics of the Absorbing Man storyline. I am all for making the guy more powerful, and experimenting with his powers, but when did he become so intelligent? He’s like Hannibal Lecter all of a sudden. And five issues to tell this story?!?! It needed 3 at the most. It seemed like the dreaded “F” word: filler. That being said, the whole conspiracy storyline is cool, but slow paced. I think if you stagger the Hulk’s appearances, it makes them special. This is waht I enjoyed about the old TV show. And a book of just Hulk smashing for 22 pages would get old fast. Focusing more on Banner allows for a wider range of intelligent stories, instead of Hulk just getting into a situation he doesn’t understand and smashing his way out. The problem is, Jones takes this too far, with the Hulk hardly ever appearing. But if you can get past the lack of Hulk, the story is a deep, solid, mystery, albeit slightly drawn out.
PD, it’s simple. Jones’ run on the title is the first time it’s been any dámņ GOOD since you quit!
I’m not going to argue about the current HULK any more because it’s pointless. I’m not here to convince you to like Jones’ Hulk and you’re not going to convince me not to like it. PAD posted a question and I simply tried to answer it.
What I do want to respond to are these people posting the same, tired, whiny, false belief that “people grow out of comics so if you don’t appeal to kids, you will not have any fans in 10 years.”
Here’s an idea…*GASP* appeal to adult!! Then you don’t have to worry about turning over your fanbase every 10 years.
Comics in Japan sell like Sports Illustrated or People sells here. Everybody from kids to 45 year olds read them. Why? Because they are written for adults as well as kids.
The reason people “grow out” of comics is
There’s a time and a place for everything, Chris. I’m in my late 20’s and I still get a visceral thrill from a decent superhero punch up or well choreographed action sequence. That doesn’t in any way mean that I don’t equally love the intricacies of an ABC or Vertigo book as well. But there needs to be variety in the stuff I read. I like being able to kick back with a stack of comics, read a grim & gritty Bendis followed by a bright & shiney Johns, followed in turn by a David, or a Rucka, etc. I have no particular affection for any genre or type of story, other than it be a good read that keeps me entertained.
Superhero comics are not necessarily garbage, as you are inferring Chris. And people who like them are not, by default, child like simpletons.
Personally, I resent that implication, and I find it sad that you obviously cannot appreciate the need for variety of the comics medium. If you could, you wouldn’t be making the comments you have. Nothing is going to be gained by doing away with the superhero comic. Nothing.
People who like being entertained by the latest Hollywood action movie are just as valuable an audience as those people who only like art house flicks. Catering to one and not the other is just plain wrong. That’s what Marvel, increasingly, are doing. And that’s what you are supporting.
Chris, unlike you I don’t feel the need to insult or denigrate people simply because they have different tastes than I do, but I must point out that anyone who would make a comment like this…
“Now, instead let’s look at Joe Q’s plan. Instead of losing that fan because you are marketing toward a child mentality…you write for him. You keep that fan who started reading 10 years ago and he stays a Marvelite well until his 40’s. Gee, that sounds pretty smart, don’t it?”
…is someone who doesn’t know a dámņ thing about economics or how a business works and sounds like someone who’s never even held a job.
Mike
I’d just like to be shown where someone in this thread has said he/she “expects super hero books to be about jakked up costume-wearers beating the holy hëll out other,” as Chris keeps claiming is being said.
I admit I haven’t read every single word on the page so maybe I missed it…
italics off? 😉
I think that there’s confusion at the moment about what comics “should” be. I mean, when a writer writes a book they hopefully aren’t contemplating, “hmmm…what market segment should I be appealing to?” Instead, I hope they’re just out to write the best story they can. Do comics at the moment fit into that idea? Or are they becoming like sitcoms where someone dreams up a concept and the goal isn’t to tell a story but to sell advertising at capture the key audiences at the key times. My opinion on why manga is so successful in Japan is that a series tells a story and then the creator moves on to something else. Here in the US we have 100s of comics about the X-men and 75% are just filler issues. Also, just because someone is a fan when they’re a kid doesn’t mean they’ll be a consistent one throughout their life. I’m 20 now, I’ve been collecting comics since I was about 9 (right before the “Fatal Attractions” storyline in X-men). . .at the time my favorite character was Jubilee. She was a female character I could identify with. But her character has since been totally butchered by Marvel. After she was kidnapped by Bastion I imagined that she’d grow somehow, sort of how Invisible Girl became Invisible Woman after her experience as Malice. . .but no, a few months later and any hardship was forgotten. I can understand that continuity gets messy, I’m not saying they should mire the reader in it. . .HOWEVER, there’s something about staying true to a character while letting them grow that is important. Anyway, I don’t want to ramble, but my 10 years of collecting haven’t been without a large break. In fact, I stopped collecting and just kept up a subscription to Fantastic Four for about 3 years. Then, this summer in summer school I saw that the guy sitting next to me was reading Wizard. I struck up a conversation with him and we got onto the subject of Batman. He told me there was this amazing storyline and offered to lend me his issues. In exchange I lent him older stuff that he’d seen mentioned in Wizard like the dark phoenix saga that had sparked his interest. After being amazed at Batman I went out and bought 608-617 and picked up my first copy of Wizard in years. Then I picked up 1602 #1 (which is so amazing I had to stop at the end of every page just to let the sheer coolness of it sink in). . .and its great to be excited about comics again. Oddly enough, though I had been a dedicated Marvel fan in years previous (having never even considered picking up something from DC, etc.) I am collecting way more from other imprints. So if Marvel is looking for that 10 year old to get into comics and keep in comics, perhaps they should reconsider. Of course, being a female comic fan, I’m in the minority already, but I really do think a great story will bring fans in and keep them. That’s just my little rant on the subject. 🙂
The way I see it, Marvel are just out for the money. Think about it: hulk movie, everyone wants piece of hulk pie, so: massive sales. they couldn’t give a flying fûçk what is happening to the characters, just as long as they stay on the money ride. Point two: kickass characters like deadpool and agent x, which i personally love. (if you don’t then i’m sure you can think of a series you love that has been ignored on TPB) They get no TPB action or hype. Why? because the hulk, x-men and other movies are bringing in customers who, as i have said, just want a piece of the pie. so they make TPBs of the hulk, because these noobs, no offence meant, don’t know anything about the PAD, Gail Simone, etc. characters, so what’ll they miss? characters can go hang as long as the cash keeps coming! I know it sounds like classic anti-corporate crap, but this is just the way i’ve pieced it together. you don’t have to like it or believe it, but this is how it is. And it sucks big hairy gorilla çøçk. (you may have noticed that i’m a teensy bit pìššëd about all this)
To start I’d like to say my boy, Wolfie, is dead on about this šhìŧ that Marvel’s throwing at us. They can stop it in a second but they don’t. This has to mean something…they suck.
PAD’s Captain Marvel, Paul Jenkins’ Peter Parker: Spider-Man, Christopher J. Priest’s Black Panther, Joe Kelly’s Deadpool, and Gail Simone’s Deadpool/Agent X, in comparison to most other Marvel properties (this doesn’t include the Ultimate line, or anything written by Brian Michael Bendis or Kevin Smith) have massive quality and no hype. And whilst all the X-Shìŧ (don’t get me wrong, I like Peter Milligan’s X-Statix/X-Force and Greg Rucka’s Wolverine), the poorly-done Spider-Shìŧ (clones, Bob Harras, and John Byrne, anybody? – stop picking on Howard Mackie) and the Hulk-šhìŧ (There has not been a Hulk series since PAD left, but I appreciate Paul Jenkins’ trying to stay true to PAD on his run), goes on forever, the good stuff, like Deadpool/Agent X and Captain Marvel (yes I know Fabian Nicieza is doing a Cable/Deadpool ongoing, which is cool cos I like Fabian and Deadpool, but I’m really gunna miss Agent X and his supporting cast, sob), gets cancelled. Just the way things are.
A curse on the Marvel House of Ideas!!!!!
HULK HATE PUNY MARVEL! HULK HATE PUNY JONES! MARVEL WILL PUT NEW WRITER ON HULK, CANCEL HULK, OR REPRINT BOOKS OF DAVID’S HULK… OR HULK WILL SMASH PUNY MARVEL!!!!! HULK IS NOT BÙLLSHÍTTÍNG!!!!!
I agree with wolfie, ESPECIALLY about Deadpool. I can’t re-read my back issues without laughing because the writing is still fresh. Not only are books ignored for trades, but if they are made into trades they’re not what they should be. One example: I saw the new Inferno TPB the other day. . .it must be half the size of the one I have! They cut out a lot of the side stories as if they weren’t equally interesting. Marvel doesn’t know what it’s like to be a fan. I mean, you wait a month between issues and pacing becomes even more important whereas they want to drag stuff out or make it hit a magic issue number. It was like Buffy last season. . .they needed to bring things to the finale and just dragged things out. What would have been really clever is to tell their story and if it didn’t reach the finale naturally they could have written more of the aftermath. But back to the remarks about Deadpool and the like, I couldn’t agree more.
Hulk likes David. Hulk think David the man (sorry Stan Lee!). David leave, make Hulk cry. Hulk want friend back. Hulk afraid Jones turn him into ballet dancer. HELP HULK! HULK WANT JONES OUT OF SERIES OR STORY FÙÇK-ÙP! Hulk also likes funny red man and funny scarface man. Red man and scarface man make Hulk laugh when they shoot puny humans.
My opinion on why manga is so successful in Japan is that a series tells a story and then the creator moves on to something else.
Have you seen how many volumes Dragonball got up to?
Most posters have been dead-on about the last two arcs being weaker than the rest of Jones`run. Wheras once anything would happen with surprises after surprises, great resolves, a months ago, there was a shift with the appearance of the Abomination and now the Absorbing man. It seems that suddenly there was a mandate to be more “super-hero” wich the hiring of a super-hero-oriented artist like Mike Deodato would indicate. Not that Bruce didn`t do a good job with these tales, but it wasn`t classic material like the rest.
Bottom line, they should forget the super-villains with Mr.Jones concentrating himself on what he does best, suspense/mystery and hire Arthur Ranson as regular artist.
The fact that Bruce is even in the comic (when he wasn’t for so many years, don’t give me PAD’s Hulk, he was basically Donald Duck, a funny animal book)
I can’t believe this. Certainly the physical form of Banner wasn’t there, but if you actually read the book you would have seen more Banner than usual. If you want a “non-Banner” run of the Hulk, go pick up issues 299-313; they should be in the five for a dollar bin at your local store.
As for Bruce sleeping around; I don’t see this a a continuity flaw as much as a man who is finally coming to terms with the death of his wife. Yeah, he has a history of being sexually repressed, but certainly he has grown somewhat as a result of his marriage to Betty, who is now dead, so just exactly is he supposed to be saving himself for? I do agree that he should have recognized Nadia, though. Maybe he just didn’t get a good enough wiff of her in the past;-)
The pacing is too slow, but that’s more the fault of corporate Marvel than Jones. However, the character assassination of Creel is unacceptable. I half expected Creel to cry out “Bruce, I’m your father!” by the end of the arc. I mean, this Absorbing man acted more like Bruce’s father than Creel.
As for Mr. Blue, I doubt that those who fear/hope that it’s Betty have anything to worry about. If Banner is Mr. Green, then it should follow that Mr. Blue should actually be blue, or wear blue at least some of the time. I’m thinking this means that Mr. Blue is either a Kree, Mystique, or The Tick. Or the little boy Hulk killed. Or Bucky Barnes/Agamenmon.
Speaking of the boy who got killed, is there really a national outcry against the Hulk, or is it just the conspirators conspiring to make it look like one? God, I hate conspiracies. But, what can one do when all the good stories have already been written? I wonder if I’m just reading the book out of some morbid fascination, like when you drive my an accident and you just can’t help but look.
dAN
re: Dragonball. . .a perfect example of how bad a property can be when its dragged on and on and on, Japanese or otherwise.
I’ll collect the Hulk even if Todd McFarland is writing it. I love the character. That said, like many of the above posters I thought that Jones’ Hulk started off fairly strong. It was an intriguing concept, making Bruce a man on the run, and limiting the times you saw the Hulk to give them more impact.
But after awhile, the stories began to make less and less sense. I mean, a good Grant Morrison tale can be stranger than 15 monkeys eating frozen porridge with the three little bears, but at least it usually fits whatever story he’s telling. Jones seems to throw weirdness in there and then figures it’ll work itself out in the end.
Granted, as the Hulk movie neared, I feared we were back to Bruce Banner, lonely hitchhiker on the road, wandering from town to town into strange adventures everywhere he goes type stories. Formula – Bruce meets new people, new people attack or have hidden secret, Hulk comes out to wreck havok and save the day.
But a super strong Banner? Bruce is best when he’s puny and he knows he’s puny, but still is one of the top brains on the planet. I don’t want Bruce lifting cars over his head!
Marvel needs to bring the widescreen sensibilities of “Startling Stories: Banner” and “The Ultimates” to the Hulk. That’s the take I feel is really missing (minus the Ultimate Hulk’s horney streak). Hulk IS widescreen, and when you can envision people running in fear because of a Hulk siting, and Hulk battling toe to toe with the Leader (he’s not dead, by the way) in Chicago, crashing through the Sears Towers… that’d be good stuff.
But I’ve rambled on. Let me just finish by saying that I’ll pay for Hulk every month, but right now I’m not getting my money’s worth.
I’m 29 and haven’t followed the Hulk since 1993. Personally, until you get Peter back on the book…who cares. I mean, “Joefixit” for christ sake. The storylines today are just dumb. That says it all.
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