Well, I’ve read Marvel’s response to the Waid situation (which appears on Newsarama and is also posted way down in the thread just before this one.) What’s truly odd is that I read Mark’s comments, and Joe’s response, and not only are they NOT mutually exclusive, but they actually dovetail.
Joe states that Mark is “mixed up.” That “Honey I Shrunk the FF” was merely a proposed direction from a month ago, and is not the way they’re taking the book. That fans are getting upset over something that’s moot. Okay, I accept that. It happened with “Captain Marvel,” when word leaked of a “Return of Mar-Vell” storyline that we’d already discussed and dumped weeks earlier.
But Joe doesn’t deny that’s the direction Mark was told the series should go a few weeks back. And Mark never says that was the direction the book is now going. All he says it, in regards to his firing, “It would seem the decision to replace me was made the moment I failed to get with the program.” That’s not the same as saying it’s definitely the direction the book is going, although it’s certainly not an outrageous inference for fans to draw.
Joe also said that Bill Jemas is not going to be writing the book, whereas Mark had said he heard Bill would. Once again, evidence of confusion on Mark’s part…except, once again, not an absolute contradiction. Joe didn’t say that Bill was NEVER going to write the book. That there had been no plans for him to write it. Merely that he’s not going to do so now. Yes, it’s possible Mark was misinformed. On the other hand, it’s also possible, based on the phrasing, that Bill was planning to but backed off rather than take the PR hit…either on his own initiative, or at the strong suggestion of someone else.
What I did derive a chuckle from was: “Furthermore, this isn’t a cost saving measure nor is it some flight of fancy. This is a change in direction for a Marvel title requested by the man who schemed the Ultimate Universe, had the guts to tell Origin and turned Marvel’s publishing business around in less than two years. But hey, what does he know.”
Boy, does THAT not logically track. Trotting out Bill Jemas’ business decisions and implying it lends cred to Bill’s writing skills or creative instincts is like saying that because Flipper swims so well, you like his chances running the Kentucky Derby.
PAD
• 
You forgot to mention the bit where JQ says the only people complaining about the new Epic are those who actually want to work under the system and are merely trying to scare off the competition.
I think the “this is not a cost saving messure” comes from that person on the Bendis board who posted about Waid’s firing before it was a news item. They also talked about how Epic and their taking submissions was basicly a sham and the only unknowns to be getting a crack were friend of editors already in the pipeline and internet journalist. Epic isto pay 8,000 for a complete issue, for the whole team- I lot less then the “pros” like our host and a penciler and inker make regularly.
Not to defend them, because I trust them as far as I can throw them., Just the base he is trying to cover I think
Jemas (and Quesada, for that matter) have every right to request and receive “a change in direction” for a Marvel title. They do run the place.
That doesn’t alter in the least the fact that I’m running away from this title at speeds resulting in a measurable redshift. It also doesn’t alter the fact that their “change in direction,” or more particularly the way in which they’re choosing to do it, is what’s driving me away.
(I’ll admit to vague curiosity about who the new writer IS, now that we’ve been told that nononononoit’snotreallyBill. I can think of very few names that would make me stick around, but I’m certainly curious.)
TWL
Yawn…what did people figure? Did they think that the current Marvel’s Management cares about anything more than franchising movies of their characters? To be fair, it’s the only thing that’s kept them from dipping into bankruptcy again.
The current Marvel management doesn’t want me for a fan, they don’t care about the buyers that have invested time & money for the enjoyment that these characters bring.
New X-Men – Grant Morrison has stated many times that he doesn’t care about what the fans that buy the book think, they can take or leave his work as is => why should I care about supporting his stories however good the critics praise is. God, I hope he stays with Marvel instead of going back and X-sizing the Super from Superman.
X-Statics – Give me a break, I hated every issue that I paged through on the shelf.
Ultimate Spider-man – Good for the first year, then Mary Jane found out that Peter was kid Spidey…and is cool with it…killing the major secret in the book. Ultimate X-Men – Ditto (6 months). Ultimates – Ditto (4 issues)
Cable – post Weinsberg…I lasted through the Peruvian Arc…then Nathan Summers went overboard in the freedom fighter direction and I had to go.
Wolverine – Origin flipping through this book on the shelf just confirmed it for me that enough money will get any writer to sell out…shouldn’t Logan have had a “cool” origin?
Captain America – maximized into the thoughtful/avenging american due to 9/11…garbage…Americans want fantasy worlds, not this half baked “real” crap.
the Truth – yeah right…seriously, it’s great that they (Marvel) want to tell black stories, but if the art in issue 1 didn’t set a huge sterotypical tone that was completely degrading to black folks, I might have read the words…probably not, but maybe. Then these guys spin off into “the Crew”
Iron Man – reveals his secret identity…like 14 other superheroes that quarter…over a puppy dog about to get run over in the street??? Or was it a kid…I just went argh and closed the book.
Thunderbolts – great team book, beautiful continuity destroyed so the book could become fight club with ugly characters. I mean, maybe with the sales it was getting it deserved the axe, but it didn’t deserve to become simply a name to sell the fight club concept.
***
Back onto the current topic, I started buying Fantastic Four regularly with the Mark Waid reboot, and was enjoying the title. I had never really been into the characters, have picked up various arcs over the years…but these FF4 were at least more interesting than the previous versions…the book had a direction.
Vote with your pocket book, that’s the only way that any fan can impact Marvel’s current management.
I am officially boycotting Marvel and I will not be PAYING to see any future Marvel movies (bášŧárdš could have waited until I had seen the Hulk on the 20th to break the news)…maybe Kazza will have it for free in a week or two or I can buy a ticket for another movie and sneak in.
I will not buy Marvel again until Jemas and Quesada are gone.
My only exceptions: PAD’s Captain Marvel and Jurgen’s Thor as both these guys shouldn’t be punished for management’s misdeeds.
Thanks, Ricci
***
Be seeing you!!!
Six Best Writers in Comics:
Chuck Dixon, Peter David, Dan Jurgens, Mark Waid, Tony Bedard, Geoff Johns.
Six Best Comics:
Negation, Thor, Ruse, Detective Comics, the Flash, Captain Marvel
All the stuff about Jemas writing the comic or Epic being a massive screw-job just obscures the main issue (at least as far as I’m concerned): Why the hëll was Waid canned from the book when it’s critically acclaimed and selling pretty well?
All too typical of big companies people at the top think they can do no wrong.
I just read the news on Waid leaving the FF. Man..
I just started reading the title again. I really enjoyed his Doctor Doom. Hated Johnny at first, but he started to grow on me.
I was very disappointed when he left Captain America.
About the Grant Morrison comment. I’m actually glad he doesn’t care what the fans think. I quit the X-Men years ago because I wasn’t the X-men fan it was aimed at, I guess. I enjoy his series better than anyone elses in a long while.
Eric
Not being close to any of the particulars and abiding by the “innocent until proven guilty” mantra … I can conclude that the Open Letter by Q was “damage control”.
And this is killing the momentum that had been building up on FF.
Well, I’m not going to drop the two Marvels I currently buy (The Crew and Black Panther…so make that “the only Marvel”) because I really enjoy Priest’s writing.
But I will say this…man, Quesada is a master of the passive-aggressive response. He makes the entire imbroglio sound like it was Waid’s and the fans’ fault and that poor ‘lil Marvel is just gettin’ bashed up and down for no reason at all.
I really laughed over his comment about avoiding the message boards. 🙂
JSM
A couple of things sit with me the wrong way about what Joe Q had to say
1) They say that they offered Mark Waid 1st crack at the new direction, but then say he has the new direction wrong? Didn’t they tell him what the new direction was going to be when they gave him 1st crack at it?
Okay- I didn’t have a couple of things. Maybe I did at one point, but now that is all I have. I’ll be going now…..
Don’t look now- but someone spilled pea soup all over your web site Mr David.
Uh oh! Greenish tint…Someone’s made PAD’s website mad!
And you’re not going to like it when it’s mad!
Oh wait. Yes we do.
Sorry.
(sitting back down quietly again)
Speaking of green, now that the hulk movie is coming out, do we get to hear Mr David’s thoughts on it? (Ebert and Roper- two thumbs up)
Is there any way we can get Peter David to shut up about this stuff until his Captain Marvel run is over (not prematurely, I hope)?
Can I translate the letter?
Dear Comics Fans,
Translation: “Hey Suckers,”
I’ve been busy as hëll of late and found my life much more enjoyable
these last few months that I’ve avoided Internet message boards, but
sometimes things get so out of hand that issues just need to be
addressed and tackled head on.
“Everyone was P.O.’d at me for viciously attacking “AOL Comics.””
First off, regarding Mark Waid’s exit from the FANTASTIC FOUR (pretty
much the only part of this ‘story’ that’s completely accurate). Let
me preface this by saying that Mark and I have been friends for years
and years and I expect that that relationship won’t change over this
creative decision.
“All of the photos I had of him have been cut up.”
Mark is one of the most talented guys in the
business and I have the utmost respect for what he does, but his
departure from FF is now being siphoned through inaccuracies,
mistaken impressions and hardcore enthusiasts inability to wait for
the whole, real story before slitting their proverbial wrists and
launching profanity-ridden grenades. Hey, what the heck, it’s so
much more fun to be angry at Marvel even with only half the story.
“Waid got on the Newsarama website and shot his big fat mouth off before we could get our spin out.”
Over a month ago Bill Jemas asked for a change of direction for the
FF monthly title … business as usual and no different than asking
for a
costume change, a change of cast or story line. As President, it’s
Bill’s right and responsibility to call for changes as he feels will
benefit any Marvel title just as it is mine. This is not the first
time such changes
have been asked for and I certainly hope it won’t be the last.
“Bill’s a petty dictator who demands changes in the middle of a writer’s storyarc just to mess with them.”
Bill called up Mark and asked him personally to steer the book
towards a new vision and Mark made it clear that it wasn’t a
direction that he felt he wanted to write in or was comfortable with.
That in turn is Mark’s right and responsibility as a creator – if
it’s not his cup of tea and if he can’t bring his “A” game to a
project then that’s okay, no harm no foul. I respect
Mark for making his decision as I respect Bill for giving Mark the
first crack at the new storyline.
“Mark thought Bill’s idea was stupid.”
Mark has also been given every opportunity to work on other books
here at Marvel.
Note tense.
“Mark was told not to let the door hit him in the behind on the way out.”
But like with every creative change at Marvel, this change has been
met with much “fanfare” and fear. Let me assure the fans that while
Mark will be missed, the high quality standard of FF stories that
Mark and company have set, will continue.
“Please, please, please don’t drop the title.”
As for Bill Jemas writing the monthly FANTASTIC FOUR title, and
the “wacky suburban dramedy” description, with all due respect to
Mark, neither is accurate. A new FF writer will be announced shortly,
“As soon was we find one now that backlash has made Bill taking over the title impossible.”
but it won’t be written
by Bill and won’t be as described. Everyone getting upset and angry
over this are getting upset and angry over nothing … or in other
words, business as usual. I’m in no way saying that Mark is
misleading the fans, only that he may be mixing up stories he’s heard
and judging the new direction on what was a very initial pitch that
was circulated over a month
ago.
“Ðámņ, you’re kidding? You mean NO ONE thinks the wacky sitcom approach is a good idea?”
Furthermore, this isn’t a cost saving measure nor is it some flight
of fancy. This is a change in direction for a Marvel title requested
by the man
who schemed the Ultimate Universe, had the guts to tell Origin and
turned Marvel’s publishing business around in less than two years.
“Bill insists on taking credit for everything here. I’m not allowed to tie my own shoes withuot giving him an ‘attaboy!'”
But hey, what does he know. Yes, Bill is indeed working on an FF-
related concept, but then so am I, along with a couple of Marvel’s
top creators and perhaps that’s where the stories get mixed up …
but more on that when the time is right.
“We rushed to shift things over. Bill still wants to write about a naked Franklin Richards, but it’ll be an Ultimate title now.”
Finally, I want to get to all of the anti-Epic garbage that has been
hitting the streets.
“Quickly changing the topic, I want to attack the other thing we’re getting bad press on today.”
It seems that there are those that feel that
perhaps the best way to get accepted by Epic is to scare off anyone
who wants to submit. Think about it, put out some nasty rumors that
this is all some evil plot by Bill, that there are 3000 submissions
gathering dust, that the editors
aren’t reading pitches and the fewer people that submit, the better
the chances of those that are already through the door. Epic is no
more nor
less than what we’ve stated from the beginning. We feel that there is
a wealth of undiscovered talent out there in need of a break. We
honestly
feel that there are stories out there that need to be told that are
just looking for the right opportunity. If you believe all of this
Epic
conspiracy nonsense, then you’re falling into a horrible trap.
“Wanna work in comics? Drop your shorts, bend over, and grab you ankles!”
See ya in the funnybooks,
“Screw you! Kevin let me make out with Eliza Dushku!”
JQ
Man… was I surprised when I accessed the site merely hours after my last visit, and find it Green?? Then it dawned on me… ohhh.. Hulk…..
ANyway…. I guess I’m kinda glad that my own finacial crisis forced me to choose. Being mostly a DC fan, I opted to drop most of the Marvel titles, even the ones that I quite enjoyed or at least had a few greater expectations. Now I only pick DC (yes, I already included Fallen Angel in my pick list) and Dark Horse regurlary, and the sorely marvel title that was left standing was Exiles, simply because I was having fun, and it’s not really a continuity heavy title.
Won’t be another 2 weeks before Hulk’s movie open here in Brazil. Never been a Hulk fan, read very few Hulk books in my whole life. Maybe I’ll go see it mostly to support Ang Lee, more than anything else (and Jeniffer Connely is gourgeous, so maybe I’ll go because of that also).
Expecting to hear PAD’s impression about it soon.
Johny
I think I’ve got it figured out. Joe Quesada is really “Bagdad Bob” – the public information director of Iraq’s last regime. You know, the guy who kept saying “We’re winning. The Americans are being crushed by our valiant troops!” Except now JQ is telling us “There’s nothing wrong. Marvel has again made a great decision and you’re all stupid for getting upset. Everyone else is always wrong and Bill and I are the only ones who are right.” All I know is that lots of readers are going to be dropping the FF after Waid leaves. Spin it however you want, Joe and Bill. You screwed up. (And why do I even waste my time bìŧçhìņg about it? Joe and Bill don’t care what we think. Never have, never will.)
“The truth of the matter is, and I’m not going to speak for our compatriots over at CrossGen, the truth of the matter is that… the Net is overrated.
We did the math and we figured that we are reaching about one percent of our constituents through the Net. It may seem like it’s thousands and thousands of people because it’s two of three guys with twenty assumed names going out there and talking about comics but the real world, the real world is not pursuing their entertainment on the Net and not complaining about their entertainment on the Net.”
-Joe Quesada
So you got to wonder why even responded to this . ANd why he did the U-Decide thing . Or why they keep announcing on the comic websites that books are cancelled and then a day later say they’re uncancelled.
Oh…good….the green tint is not the result of a evening drink…seemed kind of..creepy…making me angry…you wouldn’t like me…..
Yes, yes, congrats on the “Ultimate Universe”! …sheesh
When a music artist puts out an album full of cover songs, they’re considered uncreative. Yet Marvel “re-imagines” classic comics, and they pat themselves on the back.
first off, i had a fever of 103 over the weekend, and feared the green website was me going into relapse, and thus causing a hallucination. thanks to all the people who made mention of it so that i didn’t go insane.
secondly, mark waid is a writer who you should not “let go”… you should lock him in a basement and hope to God he writes something for you. jq and bill are just schmucks for not realizing that.
finally, and totally off thred, tmnt#1 was awesome, PAD. can’t wait for the next one.
-eD
Excellent posts folks.
Waid came to them with a proposal (see Imaginauts TPB) on FF they accepted it. It worked critics and fans loved the book… newcomers started buying FF for the first time (like me) and SALES WENT UP for the first time in years.
Then they want a change of direction and fire him HUH what am I missing here? His way worked and they fire him huh?
Marvel losing Waid Winnock Johns and having comics written by Jemas Zimmerman and Austen what a travesty – Jemas needs to wake up sure he has done lots of great things but lately his Big Ego is causing screwing up of major proportions.
Excellent posts folks.
Waid came to them with a proposal (see Imaginauts TPB) on FF they accepted it. It worked critics and fans loved the book… newcomers started buying FF for the first time (like me) and SALES WENT UP for the first time in years.
Then they want a change of direction and fire him HUH what am I missing here? His way worked and they fire him huh?
Marvel losing Waid Winnock Johns and having comics written by Jemas Zimmerman and Austen what a travesty – Jemas needs to wake up sure he has done lots of great things but lately his Big Ego is causing screwing up of major proportions.
Excellent posts folks.
Waid came to them with a proposal (see Imaginauts TPB) on FF they accepted it. It worked critics and fans loved the book… newcomers started buying FF for the first time (like me) and SALES WENT UP for the first time in years.
Then they want a change of direction and fire him HUH what am I missing here? His way worked and they fire him huh?
Marvel losing Waid Winnock Johns and having comics written by Jemas Zimmerman and Austen what a travesty – Jemas needs to wake up sure he has done lots of great things but lately his Big Ego is causing screwing up of major proportions.
Hey Peter,
Did ya notice you were breifly mentioned in the letters section of powers???????
I for one would like to know Mark Waid’s reaction to Joe Q’s Open Letter.
I was going to mention Peter’s mention in the powers column.
The question: What do you think the future holds for comics?
Bendis’ answer Rob Liefeld, lying Erik Larsen bìŧçhìņg, John Byrne being silly and Peter David burning bridges.
The next question is What are the hardshipsfacing people hoping to work in comics?
Bedis’ response: Having to deal with Rob Liefeld, lying Erik Larsen bìŧçhìņg, John Byrne being silly and Peter David burning bridges.
I can’t take Bendis’ letter column too seriously right now it’s the equivilant of a stand up act, he can’t give a serious answer even if he wanted to. I do think he’s in favour of the shut up if you want to work aspect of things though. (has he ever given a straight answer on why he stopped working for Toddler?)
Joe Q wrote: Furthermore, this isn’t a cost saving measure nor is it some flight of fancy. This is a change in direction for a Marvel title requested by the man who schemed the Ultimate Universe, had the guts to tell Origin and turned Marvel’s publishing business around in less than two years. But hey, what does he know
Hey!! Great point Joe! Now where did I hear it before..let me think…wait for it…oh yeah, ME.
In the previous NotePAD Entry, I made the exact same points. And a whole bunch of people posted in reply to tell me I’m nuts. Well now, looks like I only know about as much as the Editor-In-Chief of Marvel Comics.
As for PAD’s reply to Joe’s statement, that’s why I quit reading his political (IE Bush is Evil) postings. His basic argument style is that any quote attributed to a friend or person he likes is interpreted as truthful and factual beyond question. Any statements made by enemies or those he doesn’t like are interpreted in the harshest of lights and/or to be outright lies. Never is a word taken at face value.
As for the specific quote listed above, Jemas DOES deserve credit for Marvel’s creative fortunes. PAD writes like Jemas is an accountant who balanced the budget books and then claimed that is why Amazing Spider-Man is a top seller today.
That’s far from the truth. Everybody at Marvel (and those out of Marvel) acknowledge that Jemas is involved very closely with the creative direction of the company. He is listed as a co-creator on Ultimate Spider-Man so giving him credit for the line/title isn’t exactly out in left field.
As I stated in my previous post, Jemas decides on a direction for each Marvel book. A writer can either accept that or move on. Waid moved on. His right and Marvel’s right. Nobody did anything “wrong.” You may be mad because you enjoyed Waid’s writing but that doesn’t mean his departure should be charactarized as some sort of evil, sly, underhanded maneuver.
And, as I repeat again, Jemas takes chances by trying weird and different ideas. FF has been the same boring book about the same boring characters (with a brief exception during the She-Hulk version) for like 35 years now. I think it can use a shake-up.
And even if you don’t, I ask again: Would you rather have a Marvel President who does nothing, just publishes the same vanilla titles with the villain-of-the-month, where status quo never changes, month-after-month until nobody is left to read them….or a president who tries new and fresh takes on old characters? Hmmm??
Best–Chris
Know what I’d like, Chris? A Marvel that, after building up a title with a wonderfully different take, and spending lots of money promoting it, would allow the new take to, well… take.
It isn’t very smart to do a 9 cent issue to promote a new FF, just to then kill the new FF right when it is picking up readership and critical praise.
This isn’t about wanting Marvel to publish the same old stories all the time, and pretending it is isn’t helping your case.
By Ricci:
I am officially boycotting Marvel and I will not be PAYING to see any future Marvel movies (bášŧárdš could have waited until I had seen the Hulk on the 20th to break the news)…maybe Kazza will have it for free in a week or two or I can buy a ticket for another movie and sneak in.
Well said. And while we’re at it, with Capt. America and the Ministry of Truth miniseries being spoken about, I thought to recommend to everybody to read this article on National Review about just how bad they are. The most horrifying thing about Marvel now is how they’re humiliating and insulting some of their classic characters, also alienating the fans there too.
By Eric Recla:
About the Grant Morrison comment. I’m actually glad he doesn’t care what the fans think. I quit the X-Men years ago because I wasn’t the X-men fan it was aimed at, I guess. I enjoy his series better than anyone elses in a long while.
Mr. Recla, I wouldn’t go that far if I were you. Fans deserve to be listened to, and I’m going to have to point out that what discouraged a lot of people in the past from reading it was the fact that the X-Men stopped being superheroes and spent too much time on soap-opera storylines. Even now, they still are, and they’ve even abandoned the superhero theme altogether. But what I really find distasteful about the book is how it seems to put an emphasis on ugliness, relies most of the time on graphic violence and gore, is more or less unsuitable for children, and I shouldn’t have to tell anyone that graphic violence and language aren’t what make a good series. I might also point out that Morrison is writing only for those who follow his work, and not for a general audience, which is just what the book needs to succeed.
You might also want to take a look at this article on the liberal magazine The New Republic. It tells some interesting stuff about New X-Men’s current state, and could help explain why I for one will not be reading it.
I must say, it really puzzles me, what exactly do those who say they’re X-fans want of the books? I just don’t understand.
“You might also want to take a look at this article on the liberal magazine The New Republic. It tells some interesting stuff about New X-Men’s current state, and could help explain why I for one will not be reading it.”
A link would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Here it is in plain format:
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=express&s=salam050703
I actually did post it with HTML codings in the paragraph(as well as the one for National Review), but the current color font makes it hard to see. I hope the color font can be restored to normal later on.
Oh, and here’s another link to an article on DefendDemocracy.Org that tells more about the state of recent comics that’s an expansion of what National Review published on their site:
http://www.defenddemocracy.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=166189
The full article is in a PDF filing in a link below the word “attachements” and it’s almost 8 pages long.
Thanks for the link.
I just went and skimmed the New Republic article, and it should be noted that I found at least one inaccuracy (that Magneto took Rogue as his lover in the early 90’s while traipsing around the Savage Land). There were a few other instances (like the insinuation that Magneto wasn’t written as a Holocaust survivor until around the same time) that I don’t think are the case but I couldn’t verify at first glance.
So take it with a grain of salt.
Posted by Chris:
Everybody at Marvel (and those out of Marvel) acknowledge that Jemas is involved very closely with the creative direction of the company. He is listed as a co-creator on Ultimate Spider-Man so giving him credit for the line/title isn’t exactly out in left field.
You’re kidding. FF was the only Marvel book I have purchased in years (sorry Peter), so I did not realize that BJ was claiming a co-creator credit.
So – a character that has been around for 40 years – and I’m sorry, but Peter Parker as Spider-Man is not a new character – and li’l Bill is claiming Co-Creator status? Has there also been an executive memo demanding the removal of all mirrors in the Marvel offices?
Simply put, I’ll be dropping the book with Waid’s last ish because I need to drop some titles to make up for some other ones I’ve started getting. Same deal with Iron Man when Grell left the book.
If you wanted to make the place green, couldn’t you have chosen a nicer shade?
Eugh.
Oh, and the inviso-text doesn’t work any more
Well, here goes one more nail in my proverbial Marvel coffin. Regardless of what the “new direction” is – whether it’s the “wacky dramedy” or something completely different – Jemas and Quesada prove once again that they don’t understand the old adage, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”
Each time they do something like this, I find myself asking why I continue to support Marvel at all (by buying their few books that I enjoy) when it’s pretty clear to me that they don’t want someone like me as a reader. Perhaps, with Mark Waid’s departure, it’s time for me to finally cut my losses and drop all Marvel titles. Except, that is, for Captain Marvel…not because I’m trying to suck up to PAD on his site, but because, in light of the U-Decide nonsense, and Quesada’s apparent willingness to fire Peter if he “gets out of line” one more time (so, does discussing this story qualify, Peter?), I feel it only appropriate to continue to support the book. Well…as long as PAD’s at the helm, that is.
Scott Nelson: I’m with you. I was starting to get worried that I was adding too many new titles and not dropping enough old ones. Thank goodness that management can always be counted on to make silly decisions and give us books to drop!
(And to Glenn/PAD: the green text on green background is hard to read. Please–make it stop!)
Chris wrote: In the previous NotePAD Entry, I made the exact same points. And a whole bunch of people posted in reply to tell me I’m nuts. Well now, looks like I only know about as much as the Editor-In-Chief of Marvel Comics.
Yeah, but now everybody’s saying JQ’s nuts too, so you really can’t claim that people are interpreting the remarks differently based upon the speaker.
Chris again: any quote attributed to a friend or person he likes is interpreted as truthful and factual beyond question. Any statements made by enemies or those he doesn’t like are interpreted in the harshest of lights and/or to be outright lies. Never is a word taken at face value.
There’s a concept in rhetoric called “ethos” which refers to the reputation and authority of the speaker/writer. If someone is caught telling repeated lies or consistently exaggerates their qualifications, then their words do deserve greater scrutiny. [Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.] The speaker does matter, but it’s not necessarily based on like or dislike, but trust and distrust, which comes from past experiences with that person.
[Oh, and PAD — if people are having problems with green text on green backgrounds, how about making the text purple?]
Okay, is anyone else seeing a problem with the story Joe’s telling here? Follow along here:
Marvel comes up with a new direction for FF. Which is their right.
Waid says, “I don’t think I could write that.” Which is, also, fine.
Marvel says, “Well, then we’ll have to let you go, and go with a different writer.” Which kinda sucks, but still, makes sense.
Then Marvel decides not to go with that direction after all, but don’t keep Waid on the book. Which seems a stupid thing to do. Or, they dropped the new direction first, and then let Waid go, which is just vindictive and mean.
Either way, Marvel isn’t looking too good coming out of this. Either they don’t know what they’re doing, or they’re evil.
The article on the X-Men is indeed wrong about when Magneto was established as a Holocaust survivor; that was established by Claremont in the early ’80s, not “in the late ’80s and early ’90s” as the article suggests. (Likewise, Magneto first became a good guy in the mid-’80s, also under Claremont.)
I like the green.
Gail
Christ, I KNEW I shouldn’t have put this website in the fridge after buying it and not eating it for a week!
Ricci: I am officially boycotting Marvel and I will not be PAYING to see any future Marvel movies (bášŧárdš could have waited until I had seen the Hulk on the 20th to break the news)…
My only exceptions: PAD’s Captain Marvel and Jurgen’s Thor as both these guys shouldn’t be punished for management’s misdeeds.
Luigi Novi: So in other words, you’re actually not boycotting Marvel. At least, your boycott is such that you’re going to be buying one more Marvel book than I do every month (I don’t read Thor), and I never even claimed to be boycotting anything in the first place.
Den: Can I translate the letter?
Luigi Novi: LOL. Nicely done, Den. 🙂
Johny: I’ll go see it mostly to support Ang Lee, more than anything else (and Jeniffer Connely is gourgeous, so maybe I’ll go because of that also).
Luigi Novi: Sorry, Johny, she doesn’t get naked in it. Not even close. Hëll, she and Bruce aren’t even an item in the friggin’ movie.
Joe Quesada: “The truth of the matter is, the Net is overrated. We did the math and we figured that we are reaching about one percent of our constituents through the Net. It may seem like it’s thousands and thousands of people because it’s two of three guys with twenty assumed names going out there and talking about comics but the real world, the real world is not pursuing their entertainment on the Net and not complaining about their entertainment on the Net.”
Luigi Novi: That’s right, Joe. The 40 or so people on this one board alone? Just one or two guys. Nah, they’re not real. We’re figments of your imagination. The sound of people reacting to Waid’s departure? It’s just a windmill. And that naked guy walking down the street? Nah, he really has a brand new set of clothes on……
Here’s hoping that Mark will find another high-profile assignement after all of this. His FF was enjoyable, and with Birthright and Empire coming out soon over at DC, I hope that Mark can finally get his hands on a Superman title, as he always wanted to.
Personally, I don’t see the logic behind all this. While I can see a whacky suburban superhero parody kind of book (especially if written by Peter or Gail or even Keith Giffen) as something worth a try, I’d have guessed that at least the FF, being a Lee/Kirby original, was safe from such hackneyed concepts and would remain as what it always was — high adventure for all ages with a solid dose of humour. Which is, for all intents and purposes, what Mark was delivering.
As the situation sounds now, either Mark and Tom are delirious for imaging Jemas wanting such a shift in content, which – according to JQ – will not come at all … or this was simply used to get Mark out, for reasons which are beyond me. Whichever way you turn it, this doesn’t look good on Marvels resume and it nicely dovetails into what happened on AgentX and Captain Marvel and some other titles.
Which, in the end, means that Marvel is quite busy getting rid of capable writers. And they haven’t much of those left, actually. Millar, Morrison, Bendis, JMS are at the very top of the profession, Gaiman is probably just doing a guest-stint with 1602, PAD is reduced to writing Cap, Gail is just back on AgentX (but is it permanent???) and beyond that we got… Chuck Austen. Oh Joy.
Having just about four or five top-name writers doesn’t sound like a solid business idea to me.
I had the impression that Gail was coming back for 3 issues that would wrap up the series, but I don’t remember where I read that so take it with a grain of salt.
For those wondering when to jump off the book, icv2.com reports that Waid’s last issue would be “#608.” Since I doubt he’s got ten years’ worth of stories written, I assume that’s meant to be #508.
Mark Waid brought me back to FF for the first time since John Byrne (…who brought me back for the first time since Jack Kirby!)
Apparently, Waid brought quite a number of followers with him, based on the comments I continue to read.
I can only hope that Marvel and the FF’s loss is DC and Superman’s gain — and that Dan Di Dio has Mark on speed-dial!
Joe Quesada: “It may seem like it’s thousands and thousands of people because it’s two of three guys with twenty assumed names”
Luigi Novi: That’s right, Joe. The 40 or so people on this one board alone? Just one or two guys.
And of course, no women could possibly read about comics or write about them on the boards, so clearly we’re figments of somebody’s imagination… 🙂
I kind of resent the idea that Bill Jemas has single-handedly saved Marvel with his “creative” ideas. I guess fans, aka consumers, have had nothing to do with Marvel’s current success. As to Bill working on a pitch to fix something that is certainly not broke- Y’know… Stan and Jack created four adventurers that helped us discover the Marvel Universe along side them. They surely didn’t intend the FF to be a “wacky, suburban dramedy.” I mean, sure, Stan and Jack have had a pretty good track record. These are the men who created Marvel Comics as we know it today. But hey, what did they know?