…you all think nothing new will be here, right? Hah! Here’s the cover to Fallen Angel #5, by Brian Stelfreeze. David Lop
55 comments on “While Peter’s away… [UPDATED]”
Wow, who’s that odd looking monster in the background, eh? Looks pretty scary indeed, what can I say? Thanks for posting it, Glenn.
Definitely the best one so far.
Purty…
Indeed.
This is one hëll of a cover!
I would like to have tihs one as a poster, same for the previous covers.
Well, Peter David, I gotta tell you if this series, with it’s great covers, great art and great writing, isn’t going to be a hit…
Then the world is flat 😛
Indeed.
This is one hëll of a cover!
I would like to have tihs one as a poster, same for the previous covers.
Well, Peter David, I gotta tell you if this series, with it’s great covers, great art and great writing, isn’t going to be a hit…
Then the world is flat 😛
Wow! You’re bringing Stanley and his Monster back?
JSM
Okay, I’m glad I’m not the only one who had that thought.
Isn’t it a good sign that DC has commissioned five covers (and counting)? When does this series launch?
Very nice indeed.
Bobby
Bobby Nash
Writer @ Large
Far out, man, just far out! Yeah, when is the exact release date?
Well, at least this time the demon from Hëll isn’t killing a preteen child. The young female has passed puberty. As public approval of those great heroes Jason Voorhees and Freddy Krueger has shown, it’s quite acceptable to kill young women in fiction. It’s still a book I won’t buy for its theme, but at least there won’t be adults screaming in outrage over this cover.
< Isn’t it a good sign that DC has commissioned five covers (and counting)? When does this series launch? >
July is the date
Are you sure that this is David Lopez? Both the style and the signature look like Brian Stelfreeze to me.
Rich
Glenn,
Shouldn’t your original message say that the cover is by Brian Stelfreeze – not David Lopez?
Thomas Reed wrote:
As public approval of those great heroes Jason Voorhees and Freddy Krueger has shown, it’s quite acceptable to kill young women in fiction.
You bring up an excellent point there, Mr. Reed, thank you very much. I’ve sometimes complained about various stereotypes of women and minorities as being fair game for violence and such in entertainment, and this reminds me of how, as public acceptance of crummy concepts like the Brothers Grimm tales, 101 Dalmatians, Batman’s Poison Ivy, and even the X-Men’s Phoenix story have shown, it’s quite acceptable to depict women both young and old as murderesses and worse. I’m going to have to admit, I’m not sure just now what the exact premise of Fallen Angel is about, so I don’t know if what you describe takes place in it, but even so, I’m glad you brought up a subject similar to one that I’ve complained about myself.
In past years, the film industry for one has moved away from a lot of the stereotyping that they wasted their time with years before, but even so, there’s still a lot of appalling examples of stereotyping in entertainment, and I for one hope to refrain from doing anything of the sort any favors by buying products that specialize in gruesome stereotypes. Ick.
“David L
Make that three of us who thought of Stanley and his Monster. Could be a relative of the Monster, though, given the changes to the backstory in the Phil Foglio mini-series a few years ago, establishing that the Monster was a demon banished from Hëll because he was a happy-go-lucky kinda guy. 😉
Not to mention the further changes made by Kevin Smith in the Quiver arc of Green Arrow….
By all means, let’s not mention anything at all by Kevin Smith. 😉
By all means, let’s not mention anything at all by Kevin Smith. 😉
Amen to that! 🙂
Is that the cover for #5 or for #4? Because we haven’t seen the cover for #4 yet.
Purty cover this time.
Wow! You’re bringing Stanley and his Monster back?
That was my first thought too, but look a little closer…it’s Sully from Monsters, Inc.!
hey whats wrong with Kevin Smith?
Oh Congratulations Thomas Reed you are actually judging a book by it’s cover. That’s just so very very sad.
Thomas seriously, do you know the plot of the issue? Do you have any idea what actually occurs are you positive that a woman is the victim?
You know what? when the book comes out go to the comic store and flip through it. if it’s a decent store they won’t yell at you. if the content of the book bothers you fine, feel free to come back and complain, but until then (I don’t want to say shut up because that would be wrong for several reasons.) But what you’re doing now is assuming and do you need me to complete the platitude about assuming?
Avi Green.
it’s quite acceptable to depict women both young and old as murderesses and worse
Yes God forbid we actually depict women as actual people who are capable of committing evil acts instead of pure wholesome virgins. Any sign of darkness has been put on them externally and from which they must be rescued.
To my knowledge there have been plenty of men who have been depicted as murderers and worse, and more often.
I will not say there hasn’t been problems with the depiction of women in the movies, and that it still isn’t a problem. But it is changing and getting better and to do a knee jerk response and never have women as a killer or anything is not going to improve things.
However being a man I suppose i shouldn’t speak for women in this.
Kathleen. How do you feel about how Peter depicts women in his work?
i know i’m in the minority here, but i don’t care for the cover mich.
Does anyone know if Peter promotes “Fallen Angel” at WizardCon? Did anyone get the chance to look at/read a preview?
Pascal
Yep. He had issues 1-3 complete Black and Whites. Pages inked from 4 and pencils from 5. With a BIG THANK YOU to Lisa Hawkins who got them to Peter as we were going down to the convention. (We picked them up when we cut through Mahattan)
Kath
hey whats wrong with Kevin Smith?
As a writer & director, he makes a half-decent fanboy working the McDonald’s counter. As an actor, I’m not sure I’d even say he’s that good.
All right, Jason K. You complain:
“Oh Congratulations Thomas Reed you are actually judging a book by it’s cover. That’s just so very very sad.”
It’s not a human being we’re judging, it’s a dramatic work, and the cover is a designed part of that work. Or, perhaps, I should hand you a book of mutilated corpses and tell you “Don’t judge it by the words on the cover, “Horrors of Buchenwald. Read on, perceptive one.”
Avi Green, I didn’t mean that the woman was a murderess. That is not what the cover depicts. The picture is one of a demon about to mutilate a praying woman. Although, of course, with Jason K’s amazing perceptivity, he’ll probably think it’s a collection of Beany and Cecil comics.
My problem is not with women being portrayed as sadists. My problem is with anything that glorifies sadism. Like the previous cover to this one, showing a similar demon about to rip apart a five-year-old. As a victim of violence myself, my PTSD kicks in whenever sadism rears its commercially-profitable head, and I get angry. Comparatively, Jason K’s quoting of inappropriate morals out of context doesn’t bother me in the least.
Wrong. It appears to you that the cover depicts a demon about to tear apart a praying woman. Which is a tremendous leap to make when you don’t know the context, the characters, or even whether the demon and the woman ever come into contact in the story. They may be in proximity on the cover, but they’re not in the same scene; the woman is inset. (Likewise, the cover of #3 is a lot more open to interpretation than you imply.)
Hm.
The cover just as equally implies that the woman is summoning the demon. Or that she is mystically binding the demon.
Less likely (except in Weisinger Silver Age comics) is that the woman is the villain in the piece (though since we’ve seen a similar woman on past covers, that’s not likely) and the “demon” isn’t what they seem they are….(hmmmm…a connosieur who prefers their red meat uncook?)….
I should add that this is not the final version of the cover; apart from the title, DC logo, etc. it’s missing any sort of caption or title. So any statement about the intent of the cover as a designed work is necessarily based on incomplete information.
Wow. Not only are we extraordinarily judgemental about a cover of a COMIC BOOK that won’t come out for months, and as someone points out, isn’t nessecarily final, but now we’re philosiphy majors.
GAWD, people, lighten up. I mean, it looks to me like those who are complaining early WANT to pick a fight. I mean, next you’ll be quoting “Seduction of the Innocent” to get someone’s H.A.E.D.U.S.
As someone said about jusding by the cover, you can’t assume that the woman on the cover is a bad guy or a good guy. Just read the frikken thing when it comes out.
Yeesh.
Oh, and PAD, I liked your CBD #1542 column a lot.
Thanks for the input, Thomas. What I meant in my own reply was that it brought to mind a similar subject in which women are fair game for in “popular” entertainment. To put it this way, both things turn me off. Oh, and not to worry, Jason’s reply doesn’t bother me the slightest bit either.
MikePB and others: We were asked the opinion of the cover. In popular culture, when asked to evaluate something like this, you must assume the worst. You can’t assume that the person seeing the book on he shelf knows the characters or the content. The cover is supposed to indicate what we can expect if we pick it up and read it.
(Sidenote to MikePB: If you pick up a comic book and read it WITHOUT buying it, the clerk will scream for you to get your cotton-pickin’ crumb grabbers off his merchandise. If you have to pay for the book, read it, and discover it makes you want to slash your wrists, you can’t get your money back. The bad guys have already won.)
My whole point is, the cover DOES matter. It has to be designed to clearly indicate what’s inside. The two covers for this book strongly suggest women and little girls are being raped/killed by monsters. If that’s not what is inside the book, the covers need a new design.
You know, it might help if we could see the faces of the women/girls, and if they didn’t have one of those Sandman “expressionless corpse” looks on their faces. Eyes are the windows to the soul, and the only eyes on the two covers are those of monsters – and a little girl who looks like a taxidermist gave her glass eyes.
Thomas I’m sorry could you please explain to me how me quoting the cliche don’t judge a book by it’s cover is inapprorpriate and out of context? That’s exactly what you are doing. You are looking at the cover and making judgements about the content without know anything about it.
You hand me a book with the words, Horrors of Buchenwald on the cover. I’m going to ask you what’s it about. (assuming I don’t know what Buchenwald was.) That being said there is a world of difference between a book that is non fiction and a comic book.
Also I went back to check what you said about issue 3 and I discovered this
you said in response to someone else’s post: ( “You’re literally judging a book by it’s cover.” Exactly. Just as everyone who comes across the book will. I’ll bet Ms. Rowling wouldn’t have sold one hundredth of her hardbound sales if the book had a cover like this.)
So less than a month ago you felt that judging a book by it’s cover was an appropriate moral and in context but now it’s not? How come?
Of course just to counter that argument, Harry Potter is intended for an audience that is somewhat younger than PAD’s intended audience for Fallen Angel.
But that’s a diferent topic, (I would say I digress but I don’t need the lawsuit ;-))
Anyway, I sympathise with what happened to you and your PTSD, but then don’t you think that maybe what’s happened to you has led you to overreact and you might be misintrpreting these covers?
If you go back to look at the covers to issues 1 and 2 you can see a woman who seems to have the arm bands just like the praying woman. I’m guessing based on her multiple appearances this woman is the Fallen Angel, or if not actually the title character certainaly one who plays a major part in the story. This being the case the chance that she will actually be murdered by the creature is very minute. How’s that for being perceptive?
I’d actually like to draw your attention to a different cover to a PAD book Supergirl 61
Since it can’t be enlarged I’ll mention that Supergirl is saying “umm Breath mint?” Since I know you won’t read the book because it so clearly depicts that a monster is going to attack and if not kill supergirl then it will at least try. I’ll tell you what the plot is.
Supergirl sees the alien scrounging around the wreckage of a battle. she attacks it. the monster grabs her and then asks what is she doing? It turns out the monster collects debris from war zones for galactic collectors. He isn’t evil at all. He’s a businessman and supergirl loses in the verbal debate they have about the ethics of war. Read the review of the issue here http://www.thefourthrail.com/reviews/critiques/082701/supergirl61.shtml
A larger theme of the issue is not to judge a book by it’s cover. That’s why the cover was misleading, the readership would assume she’s going to fight a monster and then it turns out to be something completely different.
You know what? You don’t have to read Fallen Angel, you don’t have to look at it. You have the right not to like dark books or violent books. You even have the right to say this is what you think the cover means. Here’s the thing, it’s only what you think, it’s not fact. Do not confuse it as fact. You can not read the artists mind, you have not read the issue in question.
I feel sorry for you that what whatever happened has affected your life so much that a comic book cover raises your PTSD. That’s very sad.
MikePB and others: We were asked the opinion of the cover.
Really? By whom? Not me. Not Glenn.
I have the covers posted here because I think they’re cool and I’m hoping they pique interest. End of motivation. Believe me, the “Dangerous Curves” fiasco cured me of asking for opinions in advance of the product.
PAD
oooh Busted Thomas.
Peter I for one appreciate the sneak peak. Do you think you could put up the cover to issue #3?
Please don’t use Thomas as an excuse not to.
oh Thomas one more thing the purpose of the cover has one function to catch the reader’s eye and make them want to open the book. (if you want to get picky you can say that’s two functions, even though they are part of the same thing.)
There are many ways to do this. Giving details on a story is one way, sometimes just a clear iconic image is another way. Like the first issue of the merged hulk. (the one after he merges)
It’s a close up of his face (I’m pretty sure they took that image and are using it for the hulk movie) with the images of the other faces of the hulk imposed on the letters H U L K. No details on what’s going to happen but you know something’s going on.
Sandman covers rarely told you what was happening they were thematically relevant but not neccessarily descriptive. I think the idea there really was to make it fundamentally different from every other comic on the stands at the time. The Fallen Angel covers to me are egnimatic to me there are these images but what do the mean? i want to open the book to find out.
I’d also like to point out. You are the only one who feels those images suggest rape and murder. Well rape anyway I can see where murder comes from, there is certainly an element of danger in the covers but rape? where do you see rape implied in the images.
I really think you are placing your trauma and imprinting on them on the covers to give them a meaning that is explict only to you.
I have yet to see anyone agree with your interpretations of the covers. (or i suppose to be more specific that is all they see when it comes to the covers)
Does anyone want to join in on what they feel the covers mean?
In popular culture, when asked to evaluate something like this, you must assume the worst.
That is one of the most pessimistic statements I have heard in a long time. Why *must* we assume the worst? We not try viewing something with an open mind and forming an opinion that way?
(Sidenote to MikePB: If you pick up a comic book and read it WITHOUT buying it, the clerk will scream for you to get your cotton-pickin’ crumb grabbers off his merchandise.
Try going to a new store. In visiting over a dozen stores, and being a regular customer at four different stores, I’ve *never* had this happen.
The cover is supposed to indicate what we can expect if we pick it up and read it.
and
My whole point is, the cover DOES matter. It has to be designed to clearly indicate what’s inside.
I was always under the impression that the cover was designed to grab your attention. I didn’t know it had “to be designed to clearly indicate what’s inside.” Try checking out the covers of the latest issues of The Crossovers ( http://www.comicsetc.com/issue.cfm/issID/6015 ), and Captain Marvel ( http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/onsale.htm?id=916 ). Explain to me how those tell us what is going to happen in the issue.
Peter I for one appreciate the sneak peak. Do you think you could put up the cover to issue #3?
It was posted about a month ago, roughly. Check the archives.
Does anyone want to join in on what they feel the covers mean?
I’m not even going to guess. The covers for FA have been too ambiguous for a certain meaning. If you look at the current one, it looks like she’s crying a tear of blood.
obeechris oops I meant issue 4
Peter Glenn could you put up issue 4? that one was skipped
Jason K. You read the Fourth Rail??? Aw, come on, those two men who run that site are so biased! You don’t want to read them, you want to read reviews from http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com Why bother about MacPherson and Lander’s stuff, even if it’s good? Why is even JSA’s co-scribe Geoff Johns bothering to write for them either? After seeing how Lander wrote that crap opposing the war on Iraq, I bailed out for good. I keep telling people, the whole writer’s guild is making a fool outta themselves for taking the risk of messing in political matters. Now, just look where it’s gotten us.
MikePB and others: We were asked the opinion of the cover. In popular culture, when asked to evaluate something like this, you must assume the worst. You can’t assume that the person seeing the book on he shelf knows the characters or the content. The cover is supposed to indicate what we can expect if we pick it up and read it.
Hurm… assume the worst? What in the Wide, Wide, World of Sports do you mean?? If you “expect the worst” of a comic, then why the heck are you reading it?? Not only that, but covers are supposed to be eye-catching, to get a passer-by to pick up the book, not tell you what to expect from the book. Rarely does a cover tell you what to expect. Heck, some covers these days look like Cubist renditions of our faveorite heroes…
(Sidenote to MikePB: If you pick up a comic book and read it WITHOUT buying it, the clerk will scream for you to get your cotton-pickin’ crumb grabbers off his merchandise. If you have to pay for the book, read it, and discover it makes you want to slash your wrists, you can’t get your money back. The bad guys have already won.)
Not MY comic shop…. me and the rest of the Collector’s Edge Irregulars read stuff off the new wall all the time. Heck, the manager encourages us to do so. And look, even though comics ARE getting expensive, it’s not the worst thing if you pick up a book you don’t like. Just don’t buy it again. I bought issue #2 of Spawn and regretted it ever since. I didn’t freak out, I just grimaced, but it down, and never got another issue. That simple.
My whole point is, the cover DOES matter. It has to be designed to clearly indicate what’s inside. The two covers for this book strongly suggest women and little girls are being raped/killed by monsters. If that’s not what is inside the book, the covers need a new design.
Again, the book is not supposed to tell you what’s inside, just catch the eye of a passing reader. Nothing more, nothing less. And really, I really didn’t get what you did outta these covers, and by other posts, neither did anyone else. I think you’re just being overly sensitive, no offense intended.
You know, it might help if we could see the faces of the women/girls, and if they didn’t have one of those Sandman “expressionless corpse” looks on their faces. Eyes are the windows to the soul, and the only eyes on the two covers are those of monsters – and a little girl who looks like a taxidermist gave her glass eyes.
Gah! Again, just read the frikken book. Obviously, the cover design caught your attention, like it was meant to. When it comes out, read it.
Again, no offense was meant.
me and the rest of the Collector’s Edge Irregulars
More fiber in your diet would help with that. 🙂
Guys, it’s really very simple. You put this picture of the Blue, Furry Freddy Krueger next to the cover of a book where you know the content does contain grotesque, sadistic violence against women. (Say, one of those Verotique books that got a comic shop closed.) Find a few people who don’t read comics and don’t know anything about the people concerned. (That’s about 80 percent of the American public.)
Tell the test subjects, “Based on the cover, which of these books has the worse violence?” I’ll bet that the cover of the Blue Mutilator gets at least 40 percent. Go ahead, get Magid and Associates to do the survey. I’ll wait for the results.
“Collector’s Edge”? MikePB, might I ask what city you live in?
Guys, it’s really very simple. You put this picture of the Blue, Furry Freddy Krueger next to the cover of a book where you know the content does contain grotesque, sadistic violence against women. (Say, one of those Verotique books that got a comic shop closed.) Find a few people who don’t read comics and don’t know anything about the people concerned. (That’s about 80 percent of the American public.)
Thomas, it’s VERY simple. We are NOT talking about the deprived 80% that doesn’t read comics. We are talking about the Joe ComicFan who walks into a shop and sees the eye catching cover, not Hysterical Parent who freaks out if the local book shop carries a body building magazine. Seriously, you cannot compare the reactions of the public at large with the reactions of your normal comic fan. We tend to react differently to cover images. Well, except for you, oviously. But I’m getting the feeling you’re reacting like this to get a discussion started. Which is cool, really. Got me to post 😀
Tell the test subjects, “Based on the cover, which of these books has the worse violence?” I’ll bet that the cover of the Blue Mutilator gets at least 40 percent. Go ahead, get Magid and Associates to do the survey. I’ll wait for the results.
Well, again, you’re comparing the results of Joe and Jane Public with Joe and Jane ComicFan. Same first names, different reactions. And really, comparing these covers to Verotique? For shame Thomas!! For shame! 🙂
More fiber in your diet would help with that. 🙂
Heheh 🙂 I LIKE that one..
“Collector’s Edge”? MikePB, might I ask what city you live in?
Sure, I live in Milwaukee.
Wow, I live in Milwaukee too. What are the odds?
Collector’s Edge rocks! I used to live on 68th, just a few blocks down from the store in West Allis. I now live a lot farther North, but I still frequent the store on a consistent basis.
Small world!
Tell the test subjects, “Based on the cover, which of these books has the worse violence?” I’ll bet that the cover of the Blue Mutilator gets at least 40 percent. Go ahead, get Magid and Associates to do the survey. I’ll wait for the results.
So you’re basing your reaction to the cover upon what *you think* other people’s reaction would be?
**Wow, I live in Milwaukee too. What are the odds?
Collector’s Edge rocks! I used to live on 68th, just a few blocks down from the store in West Allis. I now live a lot farther North, but I still frequent the store on a consistent basis.
Small world! **
Small world indeed! Do you still hit the 68th street store or do you go to the one on Burligh?
**Tell the test subjects, “Based on the cover, which of these books has the worse violence?” I’ll bet that the cover of the Blue Mutilator gets at least 40 percent. Go ahead, get Magid and Associates to do the survey. I’ll wait for the results.
So you’re basing your reaction to the cover upon what *you think* other people’s reaction would be? **
Not only that, but doesn’t he know that 78.5% of all statistics are meaningless? ;D
• 
Wow, who’s that odd looking monster in the background, eh? Looks pretty scary indeed, what can I say? Thanks for posting it, Glenn.
Definitely the best one so far.
Purty…
Indeed.
This is one hëll of a cover!
I would like to have tihs one as a poster, same for the previous covers.
Well, Peter David, I gotta tell you if this series, with it’s great covers, great art and great writing, isn’t going to be a hit…
Then the world is flat 😛
Indeed.
This is one hëll of a cover!
I would like to have tihs one as a poster, same for the previous covers.
Well, Peter David, I gotta tell you if this series, with it’s great covers, great art and great writing, isn’t going to be a hit…
Then the world is flat 😛
Wow! You’re bringing Stanley and his Monster back?
JSM
Okay, I’m glad I’m not the only one who had that thought.
Isn’t it a good sign that DC has commissioned five covers (and counting)? When does this series launch?
Very nice indeed.
Bobby
Bobby Nash
Writer @ Large
Far out, man, just far out! Yeah, when is the exact release date?
Well, at least this time the demon from Hëll isn’t killing a preteen child. The young female has passed puberty. As public approval of those great heroes Jason Voorhees and Freddy Krueger has shown, it’s quite acceptable to kill young women in fiction. It’s still a book I won’t buy for its theme, but at least there won’t be adults screaming in outrage over this cover.
< Isn’t it a good sign that DC has commissioned five covers (and counting)? When does this series launch? >
July is the date
Are you sure that this is David Lopez? Both the style and the signature look like Brian Stelfreeze to me.
Rich
Glenn,
Shouldn’t your original message say that the cover is by Brian Stelfreeze – not David Lopez?
Thomas Reed wrote:
As public approval of those great heroes Jason Voorhees and Freddy Krueger has shown, it’s quite acceptable to kill young women in fiction.
You bring up an excellent point there, Mr. Reed, thank you very much. I’ve sometimes complained about various stereotypes of women and minorities as being fair game for violence and such in entertainment, and this reminds me of how, as public acceptance of crummy concepts like the Brothers Grimm tales, 101 Dalmatians, Batman’s Poison Ivy, and even the X-Men’s Phoenix story have shown, it’s quite acceptable to depict women both young and old as murderesses and worse. I’m going to have to admit, I’m not sure just now what the exact premise of Fallen Angel is about, so I don’t know if what you describe takes place in it, but even so, I’m glad you brought up a subject similar to one that I’ve complained about myself.
In past years, the film industry for one has moved away from a lot of the stereotyping that they wasted their time with years before, but even so, there’s still a lot of appalling examples of stereotyping in entertainment, and I for one hope to refrain from doing anything of the sort any favors by buying products that specialize in gruesome stereotypes. Ick.
“David L
Make that three of us who thought of Stanley and his Monster. Could be a relative of the Monster, though, given the changes to the backstory in the Phil Foglio mini-series a few years ago, establishing that the Monster was a demon banished from Hëll because he was a happy-go-lucky kinda guy. 😉
Not to mention the further changes made by Kevin Smith in the Quiver arc of Green Arrow….
By all means, let’s not mention anything at all by Kevin Smith. 😉
By all means, let’s not mention anything at all by Kevin Smith. 😉
Amen to that! 🙂
Is that the cover for #5 or for #4? Because we haven’t seen the cover for #4 yet.
Purty cover this time.
Wow! You’re bringing Stanley and his Monster back?
That was my first thought too, but look a little closer…it’s Sully from Monsters, Inc.!
hey whats wrong with Kevin Smith?
Oh Congratulations Thomas Reed you are actually judging a book by it’s cover. That’s just so very very sad.
Thomas seriously, do you know the plot of the issue? Do you have any idea what actually occurs are you positive that a woman is the victim?
You know what? when the book comes out go to the comic store and flip through it. if it’s a decent store they won’t yell at you. if the content of the book bothers you fine, feel free to come back and complain, but until then (I don’t want to say shut up because that would be wrong for several reasons.) But what you’re doing now is assuming and do you need me to complete the platitude about assuming?
Avi Green.
it’s quite acceptable to depict women both young and old as murderesses and worse
Yes God forbid we actually depict women as actual people who are capable of committing evil acts instead of pure wholesome virgins. Any sign of darkness has been put on them externally and from which they must be rescued.
To my knowledge there have been plenty of men who have been depicted as murderers and worse, and more often.
I will not say there hasn’t been problems with the depiction of women in the movies, and that it still isn’t a problem. But it is changing and getting better and to do a knee jerk response and never have women as a killer or anything is not going to improve things.
However being a man I suppose i shouldn’t speak for women in this.
Kathleen. How do you feel about how Peter depicts women in his work?
i know i’m in the minority here, but i don’t care for the cover mich.
Does anyone know if Peter promotes “Fallen Angel” at WizardCon? Did anyone get the chance to look at/read a preview?
Pascal
Yep. He had issues 1-3 complete Black and Whites. Pages inked from 4 and pencils from 5. With a BIG THANK YOU to Lisa Hawkins who got them to Peter as we were going down to the convention. (We picked them up when we cut through Mahattan)
Kath
hey whats wrong with Kevin Smith?
As a writer & director, he makes a half-decent fanboy working the McDonald’s counter. As an actor, I’m not sure I’d even say he’s that good.
All right, Jason K. You complain:
“Oh Congratulations Thomas Reed you are actually judging a book by it’s cover. That’s just so very very sad.”
It’s not a human being we’re judging, it’s a dramatic work, and the cover is a designed part of that work. Or, perhaps, I should hand you a book of mutilated corpses and tell you “Don’t judge it by the words on the cover, “Horrors of Buchenwald. Read on, perceptive one.”
Avi Green, I didn’t mean that the woman was a murderess. That is not what the cover depicts. The picture is one of a demon about to mutilate a praying woman. Although, of course, with Jason K’s amazing perceptivity, he’ll probably think it’s a collection of Beany and Cecil comics.
My problem is not with women being portrayed as sadists. My problem is with anything that glorifies sadism. Like the previous cover to this one, showing a similar demon about to rip apart a five-year-old. As a victim of violence myself, my PTSD kicks in whenever sadism rears its commercially-profitable head, and I get angry. Comparatively, Jason K’s quoting of inappropriate morals out of context doesn’t bother me in the least.
Wrong. It appears to you that the cover depicts a demon about to tear apart a praying woman. Which is a tremendous leap to make when you don’t know the context, the characters, or even whether the demon and the woman ever come into contact in the story. They may be in proximity on the cover, but they’re not in the same scene; the woman is inset. (Likewise, the cover of #3 is a lot more open to interpretation than you imply.)
Hm.
The cover just as equally implies that the woman is summoning the demon. Or that she is mystically binding the demon.
Less likely (except in Weisinger Silver Age comics) is that the woman is the villain in the piece (though since we’ve seen a similar woman on past covers, that’s not likely) and the “demon” isn’t what they seem they are….(hmmmm…a connosieur who prefers their red meat uncook?)….
I should add that this is not the final version of the cover; apart from the title, DC logo, etc. it’s missing any sort of caption or title. So any statement about the intent of the cover as a designed work is necessarily based on incomplete information.
Wow. Not only are we extraordinarily judgemental about a cover of a COMIC BOOK that won’t come out for months, and as someone points out, isn’t nessecarily final, but now we’re philosiphy majors.
GAWD, people, lighten up. I mean, it looks to me like those who are complaining early WANT to pick a fight. I mean, next you’ll be quoting “Seduction of the Innocent” to get someone’s H.A.E.D.U.S.
As someone said about jusding by the cover, you can’t assume that the woman on the cover is a bad guy or a good guy. Just read the frikken thing when it comes out.
Yeesh.
Oh, and PAD, I liked your CBD #1542 column a lot.
Thanks for the input, Thomas. What I meant in my own reply was that it brought to mind a similar subject in which women are fair game for in “popular” entertainment. To put it this way, both things turn me off. Oh, and not to worry, Jason’s reply doesn’t bother me the slightest bit either.
MikePB and others: We were asked the opinion of the cover. In popular culture, when asked to evaluate something like this, you must assume the worst. You can’t assume that the person seeing the book on he shelf knows the characters or the content. The cover is supposed to indicate what we can expect if we pick it up and read it.
(Sidenote to MikePB: If you pick up a comic book and read it WITHOUT buying it, the clerk will scream for you to get your cotton-pickin’ crumb grabbers off his merchandise. If you have to pay for the book, read it, and discover it makes you want to slash your wrists, you can’t get your money back. The bad guys have already won.)
My whole point is, the cover DOES matter. It has to be designed to clearly indicate what’s inside. The two covers for this book strongly suggest women and little girls are being raped/killed by monsters. If that’s not what is inside the book, the covers need a new design.
You know, it might help if we could see the faces of the women/girls, and if they didn’t have one of those Sandman “expressionless corpse” looks on their faces. Eyes are the windows to the soul, and the only eyes on the two covers are those of monsters – and a little girl who looks like a taxidermist gave her glass eyes.
Thomas I’m sorry could you please explain to me how me quoting the cliche don’t judge a book by it’s cover is inapprorpriate and out of context? That’s exactly what you are doing. You are looking at the cover and making judgements about the content without know anything about it.
You hand me a book with the words, Horrors of Buchenwald on the cover. I’m going to ask you what’s it about. (assuming I don’t know what Buchenwald was.) That being said there is a world of difference between a book that is non fiction and a comic book.
Also I went back to check what you said about issue 3 and I discovered this
you said in response to someone else’s post: ( “You’re literally judging a book by it’s cover.” Exactly. Just as everyone who comes across the book will. I’ll bet Ms. Rowling wouldn’t have sold one hundredth of her hardbound sales if the book had a cover like this.)
So less than a month ago you felt that judging a book by it’s cover was an appropriate moral and in context but now it’s not? How come?
Of course just to counter that argument, Harry Potter is intended for an audience that is somewhat younger than PAD’s intended audience for Fallen Angel.
But that’s a diferent topic, (I would say I digress but I don’t need the lawsuit ;-))
Anyway, I sympathise with what happened to you and your PTSD, but then don’t you think that maybe what’s happened to you has led you to overreact and you might be misintrpreting these covers?
If you go back to look at the covers to issues 1 and 2 you can see a woman who seems to have the arm bands just like the praying woman. I’m guessing based on her multiple appearances this woman is the Fallen Angel, or if not actually the title character certainaly one who plays a major part in the story. This being the case the chance that she will actually be murdered by the creature is very minute. How’s that for being perceptive?
I’d actually like to draw your attention to a different cover to a PAD book Supergirl 61
You can see the image here http://www.thefourthrail.com/images/reviews/082701/supergirl61.jpg
Since it can’t be enlarged I’ll mention that Supergirl is saying “umm Breath mint?” Since I know you won’t read the book because it so clearly depicts that a monster is going to attack and if not kill supergirl then it will at least try. I’ll tell you what the plot is.
Supergirl sees the alien scrounging around the wreckage of a battle. she attacks it. the monster grabs her and then asks what is she doing? It turns out the monster collects debris from war zones for galactic collectors. He isn’t evil at all. He’s a businessman and supergirl loses in the verbal debate they have about the ethics of war. Read the review of the issue here http://www.thefourthrail.com/reviews/critiques/082701/supergirl61.shtml
A larger theme of the issue is not to judge a book by it’s cover. That’s why the cover was misleading, the readership would assume she’s going to fight a monster and then it turns out to be something completely different.
You know what? You don’t have to read Fallen Angel, you don’t have to look at it. You have the right not to like dark books or violent books. You even have the right to say this is what you think the cover means. Here’s the thing, it’s only what you think, it’s not fact. Do not confuse it as fact. You can not read the artists mind, you have not read the issue in question.
I feel sorry for you that what whatever happened has affected your life so much that a comic book cover raises your PTSD. That’s very sad.
MikePB and others: We were asked the opinion of the cover.
Really? By whom? Not me. Not Glenn.
I have the covers posted here because I think they’re cool and I’m hoping they pique interest. End of motivation. Believe me, the “Dangerous Curves” fiasco cured me of asking for opinions in advance of the product.
PAD
oooh Busted Thomas.
Peter I for one appreciate the sneak peak. Do you think you could put up the cover to issue #3?
Please don’t use Thomas as an excuse not to.
oh Thomas one more thing the purpose of the cover has one function to catch the reader’s eye and make them want to open the book. (if you want to get picky you can say that’s two functions, even though they are part of the same thing.)
There are many ways to do this. Giving details on a story is one way, sometimes just a clear iconic image is another way. Like the first issue of the merged hulk. (the one after he merges)
It’s a close up of his face (I’m pretty sure they took that image and are using it for the hulk movie) with the images of the other faces of the hulk imposed on the letters H U L K. No details on what’s going to happen but you know something’s going on.
Sandman covers rarely told you what was happening they were thematically relevant but not neccessarily descriptive. I think the idea there really was to make it fundamentally different from every other comic on the stands at the time. The Fallen Angel covers to me are egnimatic to me there are these images but what do the mean? i want to open the book to find out.
I’d also like to point out. You are the only one who feels those images suggest rape and murder. Well rape anyway I can see where murder comes from, there is certainly an element of danger in the covers but rape? where do you see rape implied in the images.
I really think you are placing your trauma and imprinting on them on the covers to give them a meaning that is explict only to you.
I have yet to see anyone agree with your interpretations of the covers. (or i suppose to be more specific that is all they see when it comes to the covers)
Does anyone want to join in on what they feel the covers mean?
In popular culture, when asked to evaluate something like this, you must assume the worst.
That is one of the most pessimistic statements I have heard in a long time. Why *must* we assume the worst? We not try viewing something with an open mind and forming an opinion that way?
(Sidenote to MikePB: If you pick up a comic book and read it WITHOUT buying it, the clerk will scream for you to get your cotton-pickin’ crumb grabbers off his merchandise.
Try going to a new store. In visiting over a dozen stores, and being a regular customer at four different stores, I’ve *never* had this happen.
The cover is supposed to indicate what we can expect if we pick it up and read it.
and
My whole point is, the cover DOES matter. It has to be designed to clearly indicate what’s inside.
I was always under the impression that the cover was designed to grab your attention. I didn’t know it had “to be designed to clearly indicate what’s inside.” Try checking out the covers of the latest issues of The Crossovers ( http://www.comicsetc.com/issue.cfm/issID/6015 ), and Captain Marvel ( http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/onsale.htm?id=916 ). Explain to me how those tell us what is going to happen in the issue.
Peter I for one appreciate the sneak peak. Do you think you could put up the cover to issue #3?
It was posted about a month ago, roughly. Check the archives.
Does anyone want to join in on what they feel the covers mean?
I’m not even going to guess. The covers for FA have been too ambiguous for a certain meaning. If you look at the current one, it looks like she’s crying a tear of blood.
obeechris oops I meant issue 4
Peter Glenn could you put up issue 4? that one was skipped
Jason K. You read the Fourth Rail??? Aw, come on, those two men who run that site are so biased! You don’t want to read them, you want to read reviews from http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com Why bother about MacPherson and Lander’s stuff, even if it’s good? Why is even JSA’s co-scribe Geoff Johns bothering to write for them either? After seeing how Lander wrote that crap opposing the war on Iraq, I bailed out for good. I keep telling people, the whole writer’s guild is making a fool outta themselves for taking the risk of messing in political matters. Now, just look where it’s gotten us.
MikePB and others: We were asked the opinion of the cover. In popular culture, when asked to evaluate something like this, you must assume the worst. You can’t assume that the person seeing the book on he shelf knows the characters or the content. The cover is supposed to indicate what we can expect if we pick it up and read it.
Hurm… assume the worst? What in the Wide, Wide, World of Sports do you mean?? If you “expect the worst” of a comic, then why the heck are you reading it?? Not only that, but covers are supposed to be eye-catching, to get a passer-by to pick up the book, not tell you what to expect from the book. Rarely does a cover tell you what to expect. Heck, some covers these days look like Cubist renditions of our faveorite heroes…
(Sidenote to MikePB: If you pick up a comic book and read it WITHOUT buying it, the clerk will scream for you to get your cotton-pickin’ crumb grabbers off his merchandise. If you have to pay for the book, read it, and discover it makes you want to slash your wrists, you can’t get your money back. The bad guys have already won.)
Not MY comic shop…. me and the rest of the Collector’s Edge Irregulars read stuff off the new wall all the time. Heck, the manager encourages us to do so. And look, even though comics ARE getting expensive, it’s not the worst thing if you pick up a book you don’t like. Just don’t buy it again. I bought issue #2 of Spawn and regretted it ever since. I didn’t freak out, I just grimaced, but it down, and never got another issue. That simple.
My whole point is, the cover DOES matter. It has to be designed to clearly indicate what’s inside. The two covers for this book strongly suggest women and little girls are being raped/killed by monsters. If that’s not what is inside the book, the covers need a new design.
Again, the book is not supposed to tell you what’s inside, just catch the eye of a passing reader. Nothing more, nothing less. And really, I really didn’t get what you did outta these covers, and by other posts, neither did anyone else. I think you’re just being overly sensitive, no offense intended.
You know, it might help if we could see the faces of the women/girls, and if they didn’t have one of those Sandman “expressionless corpse” looks on their faces. Eyes are the windows to the soul, and the only eyes on the two covers are those of monsters – and a little girl who looks like a taxidermist gave her glass eyes.
Gah! Again, just read the frikken book. Obviously, the cover design caught your attention, like it was meant to. When it comes out, read it.
Again, no offense was meant.
me and the rest of the Collector’s Edge Irregulars
More fiber in your diet would help with that. 🙂
Guys, it’s really very simple. You put this picture of the Blue, Furry Freddy Krueger next to the cover of a book where you know the content does contain grotesque, sadistic violence against women. (Say, one of those Verotique books that got a comic shop closed.) Find a few people who don’t read comics and don’t know anything about the people concerned. (That’s about 80 percent of the American public.)
Tell the test subjects, “Based on the cover, which of these books has the worse violence?” I’ll bet that the cover of the Blue Mutilator gets at least 40 percent. Go ahead, get Magid and Associates to do the survey. I’ll wait for the results.
“Collector’s Edge”? MikePB, might I ask what city you live in?
Guys, it’s really very simple. You put this picture of the Blue, Furry Freddy Krueger next to the cover of a book where you know the content does contain grotesque, sadistic violence against women. (Say, one of those Verotique books that got a comic shop closed.) Find a few people who don’t read comics and don’t know anything about the people concerned. (That’s about 80 percent of the American public.)
Thomas, it’s VERY simple. We are NOT talking about the deprived 80% that doesn’t read comics. We are talking about the Joe ComicFan who walks into a shop and sees the eye catching cover, not Hysterical Parent who freaks out if the local book shop carries a body building magazine. Seriously, you cannot compare the reactions of the public at large with the reactions of your normal comic fan. We tend to react differently to cover images. Well, except for you, oviously. But I’m getting the feeling you’re reacting like this to get a discussion started. Which is cool, really. Got me to post 😀
Tell the test subjects, “Based on the cover, which of these books has the worse violence?” I’ll bet that the cover of the Blue Mutilator gets at least 40 percent. Go ahead, get Magid and Associates to do the survey. I’ll wait for the results.
Well, again, you’re comparing the results of Joe and Jane Public with Joe and Jane ComicFan. Same first names, different reactions. And really, comparing these covers to Verotique? For shame Thomas!! For shame! 🙂
More fiber in your diet would help with that. 🙂
Heheh 🙂 I LIKE that one..
“Collector’s Edge”? MikePB, might I ask what city you live in?
Sure, I live in Milwaukee.
Wow, I live in Milwaukee too. What are the odds?
Collector’s Edge rocks! I used to live on 68th, just a few blocks down from the store in West Allis. I now live a lot farther North, but I still frequent the store on a consistent basis.
Small world!
Tell the test subjects, “Based on the cover, which of these books has the worse violence?” I’ll bet that the cover of the Blue Mutilator gets at least 40 percent. Go ahead, get Magid and Associates to do the survey. I’ll wait for the results.
So you’re basing your reaction to the cover upon what *you think* other people’s reaction would be?
**Wow, I live in Milwaukee too. What are the odds?
Collector’s Edge rocks! I used to live on 68th, just a few blocks down from the store in West Allis. I now live a lot farther North, but I still frequent the store on a consistent basis.
Small world! **
Small world indeed! Do you still hit the 68th street store or do you go to the one on Burligh?
**Tell the test subjects, “Based on the cover, which of these books has the worse violence?” I’ll bet that the cover of the Blue Mutilator gets at least 40 percent. Go ahead, get Magid and Associates to do the survey. I’ll wait for the results.
So you’re basing your reaction to the cover upon what *you think* other people’s reaction would be? **
Not only that, but doesn’t he know that 78.5% of all statistics are meaningless? ;D