Y’know…maybe BtVS might work better as a half hour program.
Once again Jane Espenson helps deliver a witty, character driven episode. But with one episode to go, wouldn’t this be a good time to be plot driven?
The episode starts off with a bang (which is how the previous one ended.) Then we have fifteen minutes of excitement.
Followed by a half hour of very well written character scenes that do nothing to move the plot forward, rolling us into a puzzling five minute sequence with a druid woman who appears to serve the same purpose as the Knights of Expositionium from season 5 (come out of nowhere, deliver exposition, and die), and a climactic final act in which Buffy seems to have tons more trouble with one guy than she did with three uber-Vamps forty minutes earlier. I don’t care how amped Caleb was. Either she’s lethal with this thing or she’s not. Either the uber-Vamps are super-dangerous or they’re not. SOMEbody make up their minds.
Was there fun to be had? Sure. Lots. The classic Whedon-esque twists that Espenson has mastered, from Caleb’s “Oh darn” to Dawn’s literal short-circuiting of Buffy’s syrupy farewell plan. Wheelchair fights. Anya’s off-hand pronouncements of doom while her patient keeps saying “WHAT?!”
Plus, I keep waiting for Xander to solve the problem by calling in SHIELD. Or possibly Brenda Starr.
But. No. Urgency.
Look no further than the TV series that follows on another channel. You know the one I mean. “Smallville” is building with a head of steam that’s…well…more powerful than a locomotive. I’m interested to see what happens in next week’s “BtVS.” I can’t WAIT to see what happens in next week’s “Smallville.” And that, kiddies, is the mark of top flight pacing, and that’s what’s been lacking for weeks now. There’s only so much that can be chalked up to UPN’s abominable scheduling. We are exactly one week away from the end, and we STILL DON’T KNOW FOR SURE WHAT THE FIRST EVIL WANTS. To unleash a horde of ubervamps? WHY NOW? The schemes of every other Big Bad in Buffy history has moved on some sort of schedule. Granted, sometimes it was an arbitrary schedule (Glory had a “narrow window” to bleed Dawn. Why? Dunno.) but at least there was something.
Bottom line, by this point there’s always been a ticking clock. Something bringing matters to a head that gives us a real sense of everything coming together. They’ve done it before on BtVS (sometimes it even outspeeds the villains themselves. Remember, the mayor never got to read his whole section on civic pride.) They did it on “Angel.” They’re doing in now on “Smallville.”
And BtVS just kind of meanders to its conclusion.
Good character stuff. Decent in and of itself, and it wouldn’t have bothered me if this episode had aired, I dunno…five weeks ago. As the penultimate episode? Nope.
PAD
• 
Julio wrote:
“The only other definites I’d heard is that Jane Espenson has — ironically enough — taken a job on GILMORE GIRLS”
I love that show, and Espenson would be a good fit. Can you provide a link to where you read that?
Thanks,
Corey
(though her magicphobia came off as kind of silly in light of the massive power expenditures in “Angel”),
I had forgotten about that. Yet another example of inconsistent characters
oh and this is consisten but when Faith says we can’t get along because there’s only supposed to be one of us, and buffy snips and you went evil and killed people.
How much of a hypocrite is she? Her whole house is full of people who gone evil and killed people. willow andrew anya spike and angel. she doesn;t throw that in their faces. Faith had it exactly right that I think Buffy feels threatened by faith because being a slayer is all she has, and faith is the only one who can really take that away.
In the morning, when he pulls back the covers, Spike will be shocked to discover the Sarah Michelle Gellar has morphed into–Kristy Swanson!!
You say that like it’s a bad thing.
After all these weeks of annoying Potentials I loved the character-driven scenes. The axe was cool (looks better here than in Fray, more shiny).
My big problem was Angel (spoilers, see below):
It seems Angel left for Sunnydale right after seeing Connor with his new family. So, he drives all that way moping over the loss of his son, the “loss” of his loved one (Cordy), and his loss of pride in dealing with Wolfram and Hart. But when he gets to Sunnydale he’s joking and cheerful in a way he hasn’t been since Connor was a baby. Did I miss something? Angel has never been the type of guy to drop his worries and cheer up. And seeing Buffy wouldn’t make him happy. Because it’s been established that it’s hard to “see what he can’t have.”
Very frustrating. The writers must not watch Angel.
Not a spoiler, just some speculations…
Remember last season when Buffy was having delusions that she was actually a patient in a mental hospital? At the end, there was a short scene that made it pretty clear that Buffy actually IS a delusional mental patient, and she is lost in a catatonic state, living her life as a slayer in her own mind.
I wonder if Joss is going to pull this little bit out at the end… “Ha! It was all a dream!”
If done right, it would be a masterstroke. If done wrong, well, it would just be a mess.
Someone mentioned that last night’s episode ended on a great clliffhanger.
For the life of me, I can’t recall what it was. Wonder if that says anything?
I remember Angel watching Buffy “beat” Caleb (we know from the scenes for next week that “he’ll” be back, if only animated by the First, perhaps), and I remember the pullback to show Spike watching the Buffy/Angel kiss, with the further pullback to the First whispering “That bìŧçh” into Spike’s ear. Nothing else comes to mind.
Was that the cliffhanger? Huh. Didn’t do much for me at all, except to suggest once again that the First may have been setting Caleb up for a fall for some reason, and that how Spike and Buffy feel about each other remains mysteriously fascinating for the writers and a substantial portion of the viewers. 🙂
“If done right, it would be a masterstroke. If done wrong, well, it would just be a mess. “
This is not a plot gimmick that can be done right. It would pretty much take away Whedon’s entire fan base who would see it as a huge betrayal of their support for the past 7 years. People don’t like being told that the characters they like are a dream or fake or whatever. Like the LSH clones were rejected, like Ben Riley was ultimatly rejected when it was sad he was real and Peter was “fake”.
It worked with Newhart‘s final episode as it was all a comedy and they tied it in to another popular comedy (The Bob Newhart Show) but ultimatly saying that the 7 years of Buffy’s life was just some insane dream would pìšš øff the Buffy faithful in an unbelievable way.
An “it was all a dream” ending makes it pretty well impossible to justify doing future episodes of “Angel” or other “Buffy” spinoffs, as well…
Really, everybody– last night’s show just plain…
… Sucked.
Sorry, if that’s a “spoiler” for some of you who haven’t seen it but if you insist on still watching “Buffy” (which I do) even though many of this year’s (and last year’s) inconsistencies are ruining your opinion of Joss Whedon being a masterful storyteller/showrunner (which they are– at least for me)…
All I can say is… you should *want* to be spoiled.
I haven’t read the spoilers for the finale episode of “Buffy” but I’ve got a feeling that watching next week’s finale is going to be painful– and not for the reason I had always imagined (loss of a great show) but because the finale episode will, ultimately, be lame.
As far as spoilers go… These days if you want to watch “Buffy” it might pay to be forewarned.
At least you will be forearmed.
My theory about the white-haired Willow: Last season, when she turned evil, Willow’s hair turned black. Since then, there have been hints and fears that some residual “taint” has been left behind, which is what drives her fear of magic.
Something will happen next week that will purify her and remove the taint. The white hair then symbolizes her newfound purity just as the black hair symbolized her corruption.
Hopefully, the purification will involve Kennedy being sacrificed.
A couple quick items:
I made my Newhart/Kristy Swanson crack BEFORE I read the very similar joke submitted under “Spoilers.” So, no, I’m not a plagarist. This is more like one of those harmonic convergence/X-men/Doom Patrol dealies.
About “Enterprise,” I suppose it could be argued that by going back in time to conquer Earth the Borg changed history, so while in the history we saw Picard & co. never heard of them, in the altered history they already knew who the Borg were. (Note: I haven’t read the last couple hours worth of postings, so if someone’s already suggested this than I have to repeat that I am NOT a plagarist.) However, I think the more important point to recognize is that “Enterprise” really blows, and that if they can’t even manage to generate some excitement out of a Borg episode (the first one I’ve bothered to watch in weeks), then I’m not sure what could POSSIBLY redeem this show! (Yeah, sure, they’d get me to watch a Q episode, but I’m certain they’d somehow manage to screw THAT up, as well!!)
Regarding Enterprise: I’ve never watched it and never will. After four seasons of hoping Voyager would improve, I’ve written the whole Star Trek experience off. Berman and Braga don’t care about continuity or even good story telling techniques, so why should I suffer?
(Note: I haven’t read the last couple hours worth of postings, so if someone’s already suggested this than I have to repeat that I am NOT a plagarist.)
You plagarized my thoughts! 😉 🙂
Seriously though I agree about the bord screwing up the timeline as far as they are concerned. 🙂
I had a lot more written but lost it somehow – I forgot to copy my post before previewing!
I am glad to see the listing for PAD’s new Star Trek books for October. One a hardcover ::wahoo!:: Are they both New Frontier? Also Mr. Glenn has a book out as well –
SCE: NO SURRENDER Book Four, by Mike Collins, Ian Edginton, Robert Greenberger, Glenn Hauman and Jeff Mariotte
Pocket Books, Mass Market Paperback, $6.99, ISBN: 0-743-46443-5
Have to pick that one up as well.
X
However, I think the more important point to recognize is that “Enterprise” really blows, and that if they can’t even manage to generate some excitement out of a Borg episode (the first one I’ve bothered to watch in weeks)
What about the problem that we’re seeing hashed and re-hashed plot lines from Voyager, which were re-hashed from Next Gen. Shows…
As in… unescapable prison in which they escape… Borg… ah, hëll… too many of them.
DS9 was way more interesting.
I also like the One Name episodes… Enterprise: Canamar
So I’m waiting for all the plumbing to stop up on the ship so we can have Enterprise: Lavatory.
They need to give up, and seriously think about where they really want to go… And get rid of Berman.
At least Pillar is doing Dead Zone… that’s an interesting show. ST has just about been caput.
Sorry to rant, but I hate it when they take a beloved franchise and turn it into… a franchise…
Travis
OK…Enterprise sucks, Berman and Braga have all but destroyed the franchise and need to be sacked. Whedon’s workload is down to one show, and he has a stable of talented writers, not all of whom can go to Angel. The answer’s simple: Give Joss the Star Trek franchise. Imagine what he and his writers could do with that universe full of continuity (good or bad, it’ll be more interesting than what’s on now).
Actually, what we need to do is have Joss team up with the Hensons… they can bring back FIREFLY and FARSCAPE and combine them into one great show!!!!!
We can call it… FIRE ESCAPE!
OK, I’ll stop now.
😉
Why does everyone hate Kenedy? Frankly, she’s more interesting then most of the characters sludging around Sunnydale these days.
They hate her because, as opposed to virtually every other regular character who’s shown up in the history of Sunnydale, she’s got money, confidence, intelligence, a sense of entitlement, and she’s not afraid to display any of it. Consequently, she comes across in that environment as unbelievably obnoxious and annoying, to most viewers including me.
That said, one has to admire one thing: It’s not hollow bravado. Faced with overwhelming odds, she didn’t back down for a second. Last night was the first ep I actually liked her.
PAD
There sure has been a lot of complaining about how the plot slows down… did any of you see the “Twin Peaks” finale? You can learn a lot about patience by watching the old guy at the bank fetch Audrey a cup of water.
From the preview, I’d say the end of “Buffy” is going to be the destruction of all the demons, just as people last week were saying will happen eventually, according to “Fray”. Which reminds me, the end of the weapon in that drawing (above) looks like wood, while the weapon on the show doesn’t. The TV version has some extra doodad, also.
Spike will have to go, too. He’s a demon.
But, just as Angel returned after death, perhaps Spike’s soul will allow him to return, too, eventually.
I will feel cheated if “Buffy” DOESN’T acknowledge the “reality” (mentioned above by Hugh Casey) of “Normal Again.” As was the case with the final scene of “St. Elsewhere,” it would explain every inconsistency we’ve ever wondered about.
As long as the conversation has drifted into Smallville, can anybody identify for me the Elizabethan couplet that Lex quoted to Clark at the rehearsal dinner?
That’s been nagging at me, but I wasn’t able to write it down at the time. Author and/or work. [I’d suspect that Luthor Sr.’s favorite Elizabethan poet might be Marlowe, just for the Macchiavellian aspects, but I couldn’t recall enough words to conduct a search.]
And, while we’re on the subject, just how conniving is Lex? I watched a few episodes of the show in the beginning, caught the Christopher Reeve ep, and just rejoined the series recently. Putting the most manipulative spin on things, my husband wonders whether the entire engagement was merely a way for him to get Clark’s medical records… Any clue what he’s plotting??
…as opposed to virtually every other regular character who’s shown up in the history of Sunnydale, [Kennedy]’s got money, confidence, intelligence, a sense of entitlement, and she’s not afraid to display any of it.
Yeah, but she doesn’t have Cordy’s sense of style or cutting wit. 🙂
RE: The taser.
As I recall, the car was full of weapons (I recall Dawn holding a sword, and they were looking for her crossbow). It’s not a stretch to believe that a taser was in the arsenal. 🙂
With BUffy ending it’s time to complete the cycle.
Have the new Hellmouth open Mondays at 8pm on the WB, when Glen Oak finds a new slayer in Ruthie….
How I fervently hope and pray that the vampires finally win and that Hëll takes over the college, which is used as a base for unending vampire conquests, and that the first targets are network executives and auteur television producers who get bit in the neck but good, only to discover that besides developing an aversion to vegan cuisine, nothing about them, not their goals, their imagination, nor their very spirits, have changed, having become part of the undead. Goodbye, Buffy. You’ve been on long enough for me.
**They hate her because, as opposed to virtually every other regular character who’s shown up in the history of Sunnydale, she’s got money, confidence, intelligence, a sense of entitlement, and she’s not afraid to display any of it. Consequently, she comes across in that environment as unbelievably obnoxious and annoying, to most viewers including me.
That said, one has to admire one thing: It’s not hollow bravado. Faced with overwhelming odds, she didn’t back down for a second. Last night was the first ep I actually liked her.
PAD**
Nuts.
I hate her because she’s Cousin Ollie, a plot device tossed in to make cheap points. Whedon took a beating because he killed off Tara and had to toss Willow back into another relationship as a sop to the gay community. (Despite the fact that there was absolutely no reason to think Willow was gay as opposed to someone who had a relationship with a person of the same sex.) Willow had been in two relationships with intelligent, flawed, sweet characters that fans loved. I guess they decided Kennedy had to be different and, well, she is. If she’s intelligent, I haven’t seen it any more than in the other Ciphers In Training and it’s news to me that she’s supposed to be rich.
Why do we hate her? Because in the Buffyverse, there are a group of people who have earned their place and then there’s Silverclaw-Vibe who is by their side, because, well, just take our word for it. She belongs. She just does.
It sounds like your saying that people don’t like Kennedy because we’re all geeks jealous of the popular kids but who didn’t like Cordelia who met all the qualifications you described? Or Lila? How do Spike or Angel or Jennie Callendar fail to meet that standard? This is universe that made Andrew a sympathetic character, that made even Principal Snyder sympathetic (in the band candy episode). If Kennedy is a failed character, I don’t think the audience has to take the blame for it.
And not running from the Uber-Vamp isn’t character, it’s just stunt work. Xander does it once a week and he doesn’t treat the Lil’ Slayers in a way that would make Bobby Knight blush. (And I’m no sports expert but I hope Knight at least played basketball before he developed that admirable beating-kids-30-years-younger-than-he-is style….)
**A couple quick items:
I made my Newhart/Kristy Swanson crack BEFORE I read the very similar joke submitted under ?Spoilers.? So, no, I?m not a plagarist. This is more like one of those harmonic convergence/X-men/Doom Patrol dealies.
Posted by Shortdawg @ 05/14/2003 02:54 PM ET**
Yeah, right. You’ll be hearing from my attorney…
🙂
Last, was I the only one who yelled at the screen during the wheelchair fight, “TIMMY!”?
Given, I was hoping that Kennedy would be killed off by now and agree with Pack. The main reason I hate Kennedy though? She’s not worthy of screen time, she’s zapping it from Dawn, Zander, or Anya. Before, when Willow was starting a relationship, we were teased with the person- a minute here and there, showing us that they are really right for her, that they share common intrests and personality traits. Before long, you want the two to get together.
Kennedy walked in to the house and just about announced she’s a lesiban. And… that’s really about it for why she and Willow should be together. I so hope that if Willow has another apperance on Angel, she reveals that Kennedy was the rebound girl and she’s with Oz- or even better, Zander.
Was watching the end of Sailor Moon S and I realized how if the writers of Buffy could just sit down and see how the whole “blonde,-sort-of-ditzy-girl-with-dark-haired-boyfriend-who-she can’t-count-on-because-he-keeps-becoming-evil-or-sick-and-lots-of-power-along-with-amazing-friends” things SHOULD work. But nooooo, that would make the show worthwhile and we can’t have that. In my humble opinion Buffy died end of 5th season and stayed dead.
Oh, and I was hoping Kennedy would drop off too, but then we might waste time having characters actually mourn for her and that would be worse, methinks.
“not to mention Anthony Stewart Head (raise your hand if you remember when Giles was a character, not a prop….)”
No kidding. Those coffee commercials he was in years ago did more to keep me on the edge of my seat than the way he been fed mothballs this season. Why did he even agree to do another season…he should sue!
…SERIOUSLY…
Kennedy …eh. Who cares? I hate the black chick. She’s more negative than the First. Every black person on Buffy dies within an episode or two for seven years. Now, during the final episodes, we get one that won’t go away, and she’s annoying as heck!
I can’t wait until you’re all complaining about “Smallville” the way you do about “Buffy.” If thy show offends thee, turn it off.
I can’t wait until you’re all complaining about “Smallville” the way you do about “Buffy.” If thy show offends thee, turn it off.
One could say the same about boards where you don’t like the conversation, and yet, here you are, bìŧçhìņg because you don’t like the opinions. You’re not saying anyone is wrong. You’re not saying the points aren’t well taken. You aren’t saying that the show has been great this season. You just complain because other people are saying the 7th season hasn’t been in top form.
The sad thing is, the series started off *so strong* this season. The first half seemed to motor forward. The only problem I had with it was that the acting itself, the chemistry, seemed off, almost as if the actors were trying to work through disappointment that this was the final season, with the only person truly on his game being James Marster. But they seem to have gotten past that. Instead now the writers have fallen down. Seems a wasted opportunity to me.
Hopefully the storytelling and/or acting won’t fall off on “Smallville.” So far it shows no signs of doing so.
PAD
In response to what PAD said about the acting on Smallville. I gotta say it’s great having John Glover as a regular on the series. He’s raised the bar this past year and I wouldn’t mind if the show focused on him and Michael Rosenbaum exclusively.
“With only one episode to go, I find it doubtful that we will have any explanation for Giles mysterious behavior or disappearances. And how has he been supporting himself since he left for England? The magic store is long gone.”
my guess is saving/watcher salary/ affluent family. giles has never been showen to have money problems. indeed he has always been show to have plenty of money to live comfortably on and afford expensive toys. he opened the magic shop because he was bored without a job/focus not because he needed the money.
“Not quite sure why, maybe because I was expecting it to a degree, but Angel’s entrance seemed to me to pale considerably next to Giles’ similar entrance last season. On the other hand, his casual attitude afterwards was cool…even if Buffy suddenly went from not holding her own to winning awful darn quick.”
A lot of time buffy seems to suffer form a lack of focus then regain the focus and kick butt this is just the most recent example
“Y’know what’s funny. In countless interviews over the past couple of years Joss has stated that Buffy WOULDN’T have a proper ending. The series would stop, but the characters lives would continue on without any simplistic resolutions or things being neatly wrapped up in a bow.And while I could make many complaints about the last two seasons of the show, and while I wouldn’t have made the same decision myself, I do admire the man for sticking to his decision.I guess people just thought he was lying all those times, “
or we never read/heard the interviews 🙂
“*Ok, Giles wants Willow to use her power…wasn’t he going all John Constantinish a year ago, zapping bolts left and right? Perhaps he should be stepping up to bat, himself.”
he was using borrowed magic for a coven to kick butt then and no longer has the energy
“Any way Xander takes off with dawn and when she wakes up she zaps him with a stun gun? Where in the hëll did that come from? did he hand it to her with the note? and if so why?I could fix this scene so easily. Instead of cloroform have Xander zap her with the stun gun, as Dawn wakes up he shows it to her and explains he borrowed it from an SiT who brought it with her. he put’s it down on the dashbord or on the seat while he pulls out the note she grabs it boom much better.”
Fred gave it to Willow since she didn’t need to use it on conner and Willow gave it to Dawn when she got back?
wouldn
I think part of the reason this season has had so many plot holes and seemed so strange in the 2nd half is because maybe Giles really was supposed to be the first.
What if Joss had intended for Giles to be the First but because fans had caught on and guessed so quickly he decided to change everything to not be predictable? That would explain everything. New episodes still need to come out within a reasonable time so he would have to completely shift gears and do quick rewrites. It could also explain the new episode/repeat episode pattern because they were scrambling to put them together fast enough.
I sort of agree that Tuesday’s episode had (briefly) a better Kennedy character. I also liked her when she was the “bait” in the previous episode (“first time I was bait…. then admits being scared”)). However, another poster hit it on the head when they said the root of their dislike for her was he stealing screen time from other characters. I am just perplexed how all of the characters/plot can get resolved in just another 42 minutes, or so, of airtime.
I sort of hope that they don’t try to do too much but leave the obvious unsaid. I don’t think there was a better episode ending then “Hush”… after the voices are finally returned, Buffy and Riley sit down, “we need to talk”… then lapse back into silence.
I’ll give Weldon the benefit of the doubt until episode airs, I am not too worried. I have a strong sort of confidence that, while it won’t be everything that we want, he will provide something that is both true to the characters and true to his intentions for the series. I’m a fan and have received more than my fair share of outstanding episodes… even if the finale is a dud I’ve had 1/2 a season of fun thinking about it.
for instance: the episode with Faith, Mayor, Box of Gravlox, etc…. when Faith (after kidnapping her) confronts the escaped Willow (Choices part 2):
FAITH
Oh, yeah, please give me the
speech again: “Faith, we’re still
your friends, we can help you,
it’s not too late.”
WILLOW
It’s way too late.
The finality and courage of Willow’s statement and Faith’s reaction (like she had in her mind still that they were trying to “convert” her back to “good”). Absolutely priceless. If the finale falls flat there are moments like that and dozens more to remember. And the delicious dialogue.
RE: White-Haired Willow
Didn’t she seem to resemble the woman that “watches the watchers”? I guess we could call her the guardian of the slayer knowledge (which apparently can be summed up in the two or three sentances she spoke to Buffy after the spoof on the name Buffy). I guess it would sort of suck to be part of a endless line and so quickly be killed after delivering a message that could have just as easily been carved on a tablet. Why was her location not located with the sythe?
I wonder if Buffy was the first slayer to come to Sunnydale? Did the previous Hellmouth episode involve one of the slayers?
RE: Willow/Kennedy
Another reason why Kennedy might not be liked is the perceived weakening of Willow’s character by Kennedy. While they have avoided some of the female couple stereotypes… clearly Kennedy is the aggressor and with Willow’s timidity from her walk on the wild side (evil) a beloved character is now more of an object of affection than someone who needs affection. (I hope I said that correctly in a non-controversial manner). For a founding character is is hard to see her minorly subordinated like this (not sexually, she doesn’t even take conversational initiative). I miss Tara… with her complex sweet, searching yet resolved manner.
I can’t wait until you’re all complaining about “Smallville” the way you do about “Buffy.” If thy show offends thee, turn it off.
Actually I already am complaining about Smallville. If it weren’t for the Superman Mythology, I would turn it off.
I am soooo tired of the Chloe/Clark/Lana thing that I’d rather stick a fork in my arms than even discuss it. And the freak of the week biz is getting old.
Their take on the mythology, now that’s interesting
Travis
Ron posted:
“wouldn’t it be cool if it turned out that Giles had been working for the first right from the start?”
That’s what my husband suspects. He’s just waiting for it to be revealed in the show.
Not only has Giles been behaving entirely out of character after not having his head chopped open, but none of his advice has been correct this season!
* When he and Anya sought out the Eye, Giles interrupted it and came up with his own interpretation
* He went behind Buffy’s back in trying to kill Spike after she told Giles how important he was to her
* He let Faith take the group to the Bronze, forcing Buffy to be the meanie
* Then he helped push Buffy out so Faith would be in charge
* He killed the captive Bringer before they were finished interrogating it
* He helped mastermind the attack on the timebomb.
What has Giles done right this season???
Oh, re:Kennedy, lots of good points have been made, but Denise’s hits home most with me. We’ve been given no reason why Willow loves her beyond convenience. In fact, Kennedy’s initial come-ons to Willow were so aggressive, they seemed just shy of harassment.
I actually like “the black chick” because while she may be negative, she’s also sounded most like a normal person who got plucked out of normal everyday life into a horror campaign. She felt all too real. Unlike Cho Ahn, who apparently is just going along with everything without anybody speaking the language. [You’d think with all ancient languages they’re picking up, somebody would learn Chinese or teach her English!]
**Actually I already am complaining about Smallville. If it weren’t for the Superman Mythology, I would turn it off.
I am soooo tired of the Chloe/Clark/Lana thing that I’d rather stick a fork in my arms than even discuss it. And the freak of the week biz is getting old.**
I’ve already turned it off, and it was mainly because of the Chloe/Clark/Lana thing. All I can say is that Smallville makes Clark Kent come off like a self-centered jerk. He ignores Chloe’s feelings for him while he pines away for Lana. He has to know what that’s like for her since he’s going through it himself. And it only makes matters worse when you know he’s destined to dump Lana after graduation because he fixates on Lois.
Then there’s the future for Lex Luthor. It’s getting harder and harder to picture the kind of transformation that he has to go through that will turn him into Superman’s arch-nemesis.
Re: Jane Espenson
Apparently, she got an upgrade and will be a Consulting Producer on GILMORE GIRLS and its mid-season spin-off. She’s also working on the new Fox series THE O.C.
More on her official site at http://www.janeespenson.com
Re: The end of BUFFY pulling a ST. ELSEWHERE and being all a figment of crazy Buffy’s imagination:
Joss has specifically said he would not do that. But then, Joss has been known to speak untruths before…
Re: St. Elsewhere ending for Buffy
Not a chance, folks. Any jones Joss had for the idea was already slaked specifically, self-consciously, and even parodically in the asylum episode, which made things abundantly clear that Sunnydale as we know it is the real reality. Add to that the fact any such ending for Buffy would utterly fubar Angel–now an ongoing series–and the fact that Joss has spoken specifically of how not to end a series by citing the St. Elsewhere finale and it’s clear we’re not getting the dream, imaginary story (aren’t they all), or hoax exit here. (Much as some of us might wish we could do so with the last two seasons, at least. My wife and I have already decided that when we buy the DVDs, we’ll stop with Season 5 and just pretend….we’ll miss the musical, but that’s a small price to pay.)
For what it’s worth for those of you too young to have seen it the first time through: the St. Elsewhere ending was divided into two parts, really, with the infamous autistic dream sequence being more of a coda than people generally speak of it as. It was shocking, yes, but it was also entirely in keeping with the quirky, unpredictable, experimental, bittersweet nature of the show through its entire run–not really a violation at all. For Buffy, it would be.
Re: more problems with the Slayerettes. The langauge, powers, and financial absurdities have been well and duly noted. I’ve also been wondering about the cover stories that have been given–if any have– to their parents, friends, and families. Surely they’re not all orphans/street kids (ala Faith) or from cultures that were already aware of their potential (ala Kendra): just where the heck are their parents and other loved ones? What have they told them? It’s an especially vexing question when one considers Amanda (? I think?) who, as Willow’s classmate, obviously lives in Sunnydale, presumbably with at least one parental unit, possibly a sibling, etc. Given that everyone in Sunnydale has headed for the hills (and why, oh, dammit, why this time and why hasn’t this urge hit anyone in the Summers house???), don’t you think Amanda’s family would have gathered her up on their way out of town? Too bad they attached such an unfortunate plot hole to the only geuninely likeable Slayerette. (Who, as such, will probably therefore die next week, too, along with Anya and Spike, leaving Kennedy as heir apparent…….)
I have got to stop thinking about this show….
What if Joss had intended for Giles to be the First but because fans had caught on and guessed so quickly he decided to change everything to not be predictable? — dámņ it Scotty, man — i think you hit the nail on the head! The show has suffered from rewrititis (twaaanng – new word). Much like AtS suffered rewrites due to CC’s pregnancy, BtVS was prey to SMG’s deciding NOT to do another season. The writers may have planned on a lot of set ups for next season that had to be scrapped. And I think Mr. Bierworth was correct about the writers change things because we-the-fans had sussed them out —- they DO read these boards. Check out the last issue of the Buffy magazine – there’s a huge article about a bash thrown for “the Posting Board”. BTW to my knowledge, the first person to postulate that Giles wapossibly the first was our dear host PAD, so we can all blame this on him – LOL!
It’s a somewhat new thing to find a character with the lack of experience a SIT has but who speaks with the bravado the Slayer should have by now and lately, rarely displays it. That is Kennedy. But her biggest offense is probably that she all too quickly took Tara’s place. I guess I’m stuck on real time instead of TV time but it pains me to see Willow move on from Tara so quickly. I mean, she didn’t just mourn Tara. She killed Warren and nearly destroyed the world for her. Is Kennedy’s character worth the same? Hardly. I think it’s human nature for people to want to see the cocky and successful knocked down a peg or two. We just want Kennedy’s peg or two to lay just inside the Hellmouth.
Speaking of being offended….
One of the things that’s been bugging me about the current storyline is this: Why is Caleb wearing a priest’s collar? Maybe I just missed it, but is there some reason for this?
For years now, I’ve been fascinated by the topics of God, faith and religion (which is surprisingly typical for us atheists…) One of the things I’ve noticed is that there seem to be few repercussions to kicking the Christian faith. Even if you’re a popular musician, you can call yourself “the Prince of Darkness” and be a sitcom dad. (You have to go after our legally elected president to get any real response. I guess now we really know who’s bigger than Jesus.) But you can count the number of “good” Christians on one hand. Now I know that everyone here can find faults with the Christian church (of whatever denomination) but this is true of any religion, isn’t it? I happen to know a lot of good people who take their Christian faith very seriously. I’ve argued the point with them many times but I try to be respectful.
Now, in the Buffyverse, they’ve always played fast and loose with religion. Crosses repel vampires but there’s no indication that there has to be any belief behind the symbol. (Who remembers when Giles used a cross to rescue Cordelia from vamps Xander and Willow in the “Wish” episode. And the cross worked on Willow because…?) Holy water seems to work on vampires but what about the symbols of faith for Muslims? Does a blessing from an Islamic Ayatollah make a weapon deadly to a vampire?
These are all questions that haven’t even be raised, let alone answered. That’s fine, there’s a certain amount of suspension of disbelief involved in shows like this and if I can accept the fact that the cops ignore the paramilitary training of teenage girls in the backyard of the Summers’ house or that Principal Wood could hire Buffy (For those who don’t know, principal’s don’t hire anybody, school boards do.) with the background check that anybody who would work at a high school would need and somehow get past the few months where she was, you know, dead, then I can accept the separation of church and Buffy.
But then there’s Caleb.
I can’t see any more reason for them to dress him up as a preacher than they would to put him in a sailor’s suit or a rugby outfit or a rabbi’s outfit. I understand the power of juxtaposition – Caleb seems even more menacing because he has the appearance of a “good guy” – and that worked in, for instance, T2 where Robert Patrick largely appeared as a cop but I can’t see a single reason for this particular outfit.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not someone who hates to see religion mocked. “The Simpsons” does it regularly with such accuracy and precision I’m continually amazed at what they get away with. But in this case, it just doesn’t seem to represent anything but a cool image – the priest as villain.
I don’t find it offensive because it’s an attack on a symbol of something sacred and important in many people’s lives… I find it offensive because it seems to be an attack on those values without making a single point, good or bad.
I can’t wait until you’re all complaining about “Smallville” the way you do about “Buffy.” If thy show offends thee, turn it off.
One could say the same about boards where you don’t like the conversation, and yet, here you are, bìŧçhìņg because you don’t like the opinions. You’re not saying anyone is wrong. You’re not saying the points aren’t well taken. You aren’t saying that the show has been great this season. You just complain because other people are saying the 7th season hasn’t been in top form.
The reason we bìŧçh is, we’re all science fiction geeks here. Sci-fi geeks are required to slam every flaw in their favorite shows, no matter how trivial. That’s how we prove we love the show.
(A note to anyone offended by the above: You, of course, are a person of noble character and refined intelligence, and raise the quality of the board merely by reading this message.)
The sad thing is, the series started off *so strong* this season. The first half seemed to motor forward.
I agree. The early episodes–some of them, anyway–were among the best in the history of the series. Even now, it’s still a great show. It just hasn’t been at its peak lately.
That said, I’ve also been annoyed by all the carping about Buffy on this board (and not just this board). I wish we had a few more posts along the lines of, “Buffy‘s a really good show, and I’m sad it’s going off the air.” But people’s opinions are what they are.
So: Buffy‘s a really good show, and I’m sad it’s going off the air.
Hopefully the storytelling and/or acting won’t fall off on “Smallville.” So far it shows no signs of doing so.
Yeah, it’s been fantastic lately, although the first half of the season was close to unwatchable. That’s my sci-fi bìŧçhìņg for the day. Your mileage, as always, may vary.
–Daniel M.
Buffy has been, at times, a really good show; at times among the best shows on television. I’m sad it’s going off the air. I’m particularly sad it’s doing so with such a poor season overall, following what was also mostly a poor season.
Does that help? 🙂