Angel’s quest comes to a head, Gunn kicks open the cell door that held Angelus (!), Conner the dad undertakes some tough love, and whoever wrote the opening credits should be shot. All this and more on a seriously nifty conclusion to the Jasmine storyline.
Okay, well…considering her true name seems to be “Ahhhiiiihhhh,” which could be just about any dámņëd thing, I’m going to stick with my opinion that she was Lilith. So there, nyaah.
Man does this show rock. I’m not just talking the national reveal of Jasmine, or the gloriously circular conversation with the keeper of the word (as opposed to the keeper of the name), or the fact that, blast them, they actually made me start to like (gulp) Conner, or the fight scenes, or the serious Excedrin headache that Conner gave his daughter. I’m talking in that all the years of both BTVS and “Angel,” we’ve never had a Big Bad do such a terrific job of explaining just exactly why they’re not a Big Bad at all. In the real world, evil is never in black and white, but shades of grey. Evil never believes it’s evil. It always believes it’s serving a greater good. Jasmine is the first Big Bad in the Whedon-verse that I can think of who had that very realistic attitude. The only scene to come close to her “You iiiiiidiot!” chat with Angel was Glory’s tete-a-tete with Dawn in which Glory made a laceratingly accurate description of mankind and described herself as the original one-eyed queen in the kingdom of the blind.
It’s all so simple. Just give up free will and the desire to think for yourself, and you’ll be happy. And really…isn’t that what we’re always being told? Embrace what Madison Avenue is selling, and you’ll be happy. Embrace a particular religious dogma, and you’ll be happy. Embrace the right -ism, and you’ll be happy. Just turn off your brain, give yourself over, and Don’t Worry About it. Jasmine was really the logical culmination of what we do to ourselves every single day, which is why the story worked so spectacularly.
The only fly in the ointment: In the past, when a surprise person shows up at the end, they put their name in the end credits to maintain the surprise. So there’s Stephanie Romanov’s name, and I’m thinking, “So Lyla’s in the episode? Nice trick.” And of course, she’s the big surprise reveal at the end…except since time was ticking away, it was pretty obvious what that “surprise” was going to be. So, y’know, I’m glad Romanov got her up-front credit, but I wish they’d saved it for the end.
Next week, from what I hear, serves “Angel” almost as a backdoor pilot for their own series. Whedon’s been talking about a “paradigm shift,” wanting to sell the network on a new take for “Angel.” Next week’s episode is obviously it. I’m not sure I’m ecstatic about Wolfram and Hart coming back to life. Should the Senior Partners have *that* much power? On the other hand, hey…another shot at Wesley and Lyla, so, y’know…
All in all, great job. Kudos to all concerned, on the off chance they read this blog.
PAD
• 
Well, here’s what I think leads into Wolfram & Hart. Two points; the bit in Pylea where we learned the powers behind that dimension were Wolf, Ram, and Hart. And how Jasmine kept refering to herself as a power…as in the powers that be (to the point where she calls herself a power that was). I’m thinking those powers that be are a lot closer to grey, and that Wolf, Ram, and Hart are also such.
Had to like Gunn’s Galaxy Quest reference.
The one flaw I saw in the ep was how Jasmine’s powers over the hivemind suddenly, and conveniently, jumped back about 2-3 episodes worth. Given how her connection/control over folk had grown by last week, when she ordered the crowd to kill Angel, there was no way they should’ve backed off at all, let alone just because Angel was swinging a head around. Ditto not being aware of Connor’s actions as he kept beating up her thralls…her most critical ones that were guarding Cordy at that. Yeah, during the mass feeding she was out of the loop, but there was no indication she shouldn’t have been back in it once sated.
That and one typical “Evil Overlord” bit of stupidness. No, not leaving AI alive. But why stay at the hotel, when Angel knows it’s been your HQ? Relocate to *anywhere* else in LA so it’ll be harder for Angel to find you (yeah, the magic sphere seems to have auto-brought Angel to within earshot of Name Boy, but Jasmine didn’t know that). Suppose it was a budget limitation on sets or something.
Masterful story. Didn’t expect so much to wrapped up and resolved in this one episode before the season ending cliffhanger. I’m still a little unclear as to what the purpose of the reign of fire, the beast , and blotting out the sun was all for. All just misdirection to cover the Power’s arrival? If so, seemed a little excessive just to get Connor to get it on with Cordy. Those Powers. Such drama queens.
“I’m still a little unclear as to what the purpose of the reign of fire, the beast , and blotting out the sun was all for. “
Think that ties back into PAD’s
COMMENT: this Big Bad didn’t think of itself as a Big Bad. This was all set up to get rid of demons, vampires, etc. After all, Jasmine’s saving the world….
I think the Rain of Fire was some big locating spell or power building spell so the Beast could go after the Ra-tet.
I’m wondering if Lilah is there because she has a similiar contract that Holland Manners had (not ending with death).
Great episode, great season. I hope next week is good, because that’s the course for the series if it gets picked up (which I hear the ratings have improved).
I am amazed to see a review that raves about Angel so much, while your review of the last Buffy made it sound like it stank to high heaven. You may have guessed – my take is decidedly the reverse. While I think some of the Season Four Angel episodes have been more entertaining than the previous season’s debacle, I think they are just that – entertaining. But ultimately in a superficial way.
Buffy on the other hand has a depth, perhaps bourne out of its longevity, which makes every episode resonant with meaning, so that even those eps which are not so well executed (and Drew Greenberg has always been one of the weakest writers) leave the viewer with plenty to think about and debate – on a deep thematic and character level. I think Season Seven has had some remarkable highs, and some mediocrity, but I believe in the arc, and find it hugely more satisfying than Angel’s plot-driven, on-the-nose, sledgehammer approach to storytelling.
Angel (which has the superior production values at present) is like a Hollywood no-brainer blockbuster to Buffy’s thoughtful, delicately crafted little art-house gem.
It was nice to see the big fight between Angel & Jasmine at the end. When she threw the car at him, I was reminded of the “best super hero film” thread last week.
I can within a hair’s breadth of feeling sorry for Conner, but just can’t quite get there.
>S
>P
>O
>I
>L
>E
>R
If Angel inc. does take control of Wolfram & Hart next week, that would definitely change the dynamic of this show.
Should be interesting to watch.
Bobby
Bobby Nash
Writer @ Large
I don’t necessarily think that Lilah’s “alive” in the conventional sense of the word. I mean, anyone else notice the scarf wrapped around her neck? As in, right where Wes beheaded her?
The events of this season lead me to believe that Wolfram & Hart and The Powers That Be are the same beings, albeit in a Janus-like manner. I also believe that when one of them was destroyed in the Second Season (“Reprise” I believe), it somehow upset the balance. I believe that’s why Jasmine had both Wolfram & Hart and Cordelia taken out of the picture; to sever any connections to any “Higher Powers” that might have information on how to stop their erstwhile sister. Why else would they have allowed Connor to bring Jasmine to the world only to have him destroy her (which I think sets up a potential plotline for next season: The Furies must punish Connor for commiting infanticide and boy will they be able to lay on the guilt for the way he turned on both his parents). I thought Jasmine’s final confrontation was incredibly executed, but was shocked Angel didn’t mention what she did to him, Connor, and Cordy in terms of psychological damage. But a fascinating portrait of a Big Bad with Good Intentions, kudos to Gina Torres who really blew me away this episode. And kudos to Vincent Karthesier (sp?) for reminding us that Connor is a kid who had a “hellish” childhood and wanted to believe the most beautiful lie, and that his eyes have seen things most of us would piss our pants if we knew they even existed.
Now I believe the apocalyptic events served to make people more desperate and therefore more susceptible to what Jasmine had to offer. But perhaps the arc of the Ra-Tet holds some parallelisms to the True Natures of the Powers That Be and Wolfram & Hart, and how they balance out the universe, knowing that there will never be firm line between them and that the balance will always shift between Good and Evil, with neither becoming absolute. I also wonder whether Angel’s re-ensouling is also a parallel to this (as well as Cordy, Connor, Wesley, and Gunn’s arcs) since, when he got it back, both Angelus and Good Angel seemed to merge together, thereby reaffirming Jasmine’s statement that there are no absolutes.
“Art-house gem?” Only if they’re showing sopping wet romance movies in arthouses these days, Bob. I can’t agree with your assessment that Buffy has more depth than Angel. How exactly do you judge such a thing? Because Buffy’s tackling an enemy that first popped up in season 3? Because Buffy’s stuffed fat with Slayer Babies? Surely it’s not because of the long history of the characters themselves, since that history is always ignored whenever it’s convenient.
As far as I’m concerned, Angel has been superior to Buffy in every respect this season, and it’s largely due to two things. One–the story has kept moving. Cordy’s missing, Cordy’s found, reign of fire, the beast, Angelus, Faith, Cordy’s pregnant, Jasmine arrives, the plague of kindness…with the exception of “Players,” Gunn’s spotlight episode, there haven’t been any monsters-of-the-week episodes (and even that kept Evil Cordy as the B plot). Compare this with Buffy this season. The main arc really gets going in the seventh episode of the season, “Conversations with Dead People.” Following that, there are three arc episodes. Then we’ve got a Dawn episode (“Potential”), a Willow episode (“The Killer In Me”), and “First Date”, which seems to be trying to set up a Buffy-Spike-Wood triangle…then an arc episode, then an Andrew episode (“Storyteller”), then a Spike episode (“Lies My Parents Told Me”), followed by two arc episodes. You see what I’m saying? What really changes over the course of these episodes? Spike gets dechipped, Buffy defeats the first Turok-Han and finds out that there are hundreds more itching to get out, Andrew closes the Seal of Danzig, and Caleb shows up and pokes out Xander’s eye. That’s not a lot of plot for 13 episodes.
The other reason Angel’s been better than Buffy this season? No one relationship is more important than another. Angel-Cordy, Connor-Cordy Fred-Gunn, Fred-Wesley, Wesley-Lilah, Lorne-a nice cool sea breeze, they all get equal time. Buffy, on the other hand? It’s all about Buffy & Spike. Okay, maybe they take a couple of minutes to shove Kennedy down our throats and try and get us to like her, but largely, it’s all about the Spuffy. (And look at the trailer for next episode, for cryin’ out loud. Two episodes left and I’m gonna have to watch Buffy/Spike, Willow/Kennedy, and again with the Xander/Anya? Oy.)
So, uh, yeah. Angel good, Buffy bad. Anyway, anybody catch the Miracles shoutout last night? “God is nowhere. Jasmine is the way!”
I taped tonight’s Angel for later viewing because I was curious about the current Twilight Zone remaking the classic episode “Eye of the Beholder”.
For all the hype, it was pretty anti-climatic.
They pretty much aped the original dialogue word for word. The only real difference: this version was in color, although you did get more of a feeling that this was a post apocalyptic earth trying to cope with the ‘scars’ of war.
The second feature “Developing” was pretty much standard tv fare.
Can no one truly recapture the magic of the original series, or have we become so jaded (for lack of a better word) by everything since then?
Overall, to me, great episode. Loved the conversation with the Keeper, the Galaxy Quest line that someone else noted, the fight and Jasmine’s hurt expression and attitude towards the frightened and confused ex-followers. Nicely played. And I was suprised how quickly they ended it, tho it fit. They mentioned that as her Mom, Cordi could hurt Jasmine. Makes sense that Dad could as well.
And yes, I hate to admit it too, but Conner grew on me with his monologue to Cordi. But not a whole lot.
I didn’t notice Romanov’s name in the credits. So when she showed up I jumped and yelled “Lyla’s there?! OH CRAP, IT’S THE FIRST!!!” So now we know how Angel and the gang are gonna know what’s up in Sunnydale and be there for the final episode. Or is it just going to be Angel there? Does anyone know?
StS
> Or is it just going to be Angel there? Does anyone know?
Just Angel (but he’s in 21 & 22)
So, Peter… why don’t you like Connor?
Fantastic episode. There was a weak spot here or there (opening the cell was ridiculous… I kept expecting for Wesley to give it a shot (or pick the lock)and have it open). Funny that Angelus couldn’t escape…
LOVED LILAH coming back… I really hope that it is Lilah, not Cordelia in Lilah’s body.
ATS has had some ups and downs this year but this has been a great season. Can’t wait for the next episode.
Then again, I don’t think Angelus tried repeatedly kicking the lock out of sheer frustration. Instead, he had fun mucking with the minds of our heroes.
Connor’s elimination of Jasmine certainly brought to mind the old Bill Cosby line: I brought you into this world and I can take you out.
I was actually a bit surprised that the death of Jasmine did not involve the sacrifice of either Connor or Cordy. Since she seemed to be absorbing the wounds of her worshippers and then healing herself by feeding on the healthy ones, I wondered if killing either her mother or father might be the only way to kill her.
Then again, a fist through the back of the head works, too.
Matt
If Lilah is “alive” after Wesley dismembered her dead body, we’re talking major re-set.
Could the reality created by the rain of fire (reign of fire?) been undone by Jasmine’s “loss of power.”
Jasmine would still have been the personality behind an ancient power that existed metaphorically like a Titan or spawn of Chronos and Rhia, but what does it mean when her “power” is stripped from her.
Do we have a time slippage?
I’m all for the concept of the last ep of something being a new “pilot” (ever see the last ep of Kung Fu the Legend Continues with the set-up of the local tactical/sniper police guy ((played by a fan favorite)) as a major foil for Peter Caine as newly accepting Priest duties yet having the instintcts, trainings and contacts of a former police homicide detective). I’m only hoping I’ll like the new Angel.
Liked the episode, but being the geek that I am, I loved the several references to other movies/shows:
Gunn’s “it’s To Serve Man all over again,” Lorne’s “creepy in a Night of the Comet kind of way,” and then of course the Galaxy Quest line.
I laugh at these little added bits.
Just thought I’d point out to folks that the episode had what seemed to be a little tip-o-the-hat to a short-lived recent supernatural series; when heading into the church where Cordy is stashed, the sign out front says “God is Nowhere”, a key phrase in Miracles.
As for me: I’m trying Angel again. I really am. But while it doesn’t seem as scattershot as the early episodes, it still isn’t doing anything that gets me to emotionally invest in the characters. Having watched most of the last half-dozen episodes, I’m not even being interested in the characters that I know from my repeated viewings of Buffy. I’m curious about Fred and enjoyed Jasmine in action, but that’s about it. (Although am I the only one that wants to see a spin-off with Conner and Buffy’s Andrew as roommates?)
Wow. Great ep. Also (tooting my own horn) – just as I predicted here a few weeks back — AI will become the new owners of Wolfram and Hart. From the previews, it looks like Lilah is back & that Angel is somehow able to be in sunlight, but I suspect that she is not “alive” again, nor is Angel made human or turned sun-proof. I don’t think that was the First posing as Lilah, either as she was shown opening the shades (First can’t touch nothin’). She’s real, but back to life… I dunno. I can’t imagine that ME would turn Angel human just yet…that seems like it would be a season long story arc. Maybe next year. Fingers crossed. I predict that Conner will turn out to be the big next season – if there is one. Toes crossed, too.
(Although am I the only one that wants to see a spin-off with Conner and Buffy’s Andrew as roommates?)
I feel confident in saying yes. Yes, you are.
The only fly in the ointment: In the past, when a surprise person shows up at the end, they put their name in the end credits to maintain the surprise. So there’s Stephanie Romanov’s name, and I’m thinking, “So Lyla’s in the episode? Nice trick.”
Actually, I missed seeing her name in the credits.
When the crew opened the door and gasped, I actually thought maybe it was Buffy there (after being kicked out of her house) to ask Angel for some help.
Angel becoming human… I’m starting to wonder, now. What with all the rumours flying about where Buffy is concerned. After all, from “Blind Date”:
Wesley: If I’m right, the Prophecies of Aberjian – for centuries thought lost. I translated some of the text. [snip] There is an entire passage – about you. – It doesn’t call you by name – but it tells of a vampire with a soul.
And in “The Shanshu in L.A.”:
Wesley: Ah, the vampire with a soul, once he fulfills his destiny, will Shanshu. Become human. It’s his reward. [snip] Well, it’s saying that it won’t happen tomorrow or the next day. He has to survive the coming darkness, the apocalyptic battles, a few plagues, and some – uh, several, – not that many – fiends that will be unleashed.
It never mentions Angel by name and now there are two vampires with souls running around, suffering in apocalyptic battles and fighting the good fight.
I think it would tick me off if, after everything Angel has done, Spike (as much as I love him) would be the one to Shanshu. I might be a real possibility, though.
My guess for Lilah is that she’s just trapped in some kind of after-death clause, like Holland was. Not really alive, but not quite dead. I bet W&H has a really lousy retirement plan.
I’m another one of the people who was really impressed by Connor this episode. My appreciation for his character has just jumped ten points. Let’s hope he keeps it up.
What if the Lyla actually killed
wasn’t Lyla, but Lyla had switched
with Cordelia and was Jasmine’s mother ?
HA…first things first…..I was right Connor never saw the “Beautiful Jasmine” that was Gina Torres, he saw the maggots. Because he grew up in a Hëll Dimension. I got it! Wow…I think that’s a first for me….Although I did not see Lyla..I thought it was Cordy the whole way even though I noticed the credits…by then I had forgotten….Great ep. Great Show!!
Tobin
-tpl
I have a hard time believing that the “shanshu” prophecy is referring to Spike.
I just recently finished rewatching the first season on DVD. In the episode where Angel first stole the scrolls from Wofram and Hart’s offices he says that he felt drawn to them for reasons he couldn’t explain. It was like he was compelled to steal them by some supernatural force. If the prophecies were referring to Spike, why would Angel be drawn to them?
I also noticed that Wesley’s translation said THE vampire with a soul, not A vampire with a soul. Implying that when the prophecy finally occurs there won’t be two vampires with souls running around. In other words, as long as Angel’s around, Spike can’t be “shanshuing” on the final episode of Buffy, as some are predicting.
Of course, as we’ve seen in the Buffy-verse before, prophecies can sometimes be wrong, Wesley’s translations can sometimes be wrong, and the writers, sometimes, just don’t give a rat’s behind about continuity. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
Of course, as we’ve seen in the Buffy-verse before, prophecies can sometimes be wrong, Wesley’s translations can sometimes be wrong, and the writers, sometimes, just don’t give a rat’s behind about continuity. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see
I quote myself… whom are you going to believe? A demon or a hamburger stand?
Connor is still alive, but that doesn’t mean Angel won’t kill him.
Travis
I think I’d like Giles to go over to “Angel,” so Wesley and Faith can travel the world killing demons in “Faith the Vampire Slayer.”
>I think I’d like Giles to go over >to “Angel,” so Wesley and Faith >can travel the world killing >demons in “Faith the Vampire >Slayer.”
For that to happen, Eliza Dushku’s upcoming SF show on FOX will have to be cancelled. Fox? SF? Come to think of it, that probably will happen…
Corey
Why are Wolfram & Hart back? Why do they seem to want AI? In the immortal words of Buffy herself DUH! W&H are in the evil business, Jasmine, well Jasmine was probably a real drain on business. Angel and Co. get rid of Jasmine, destroying perfect happiness, in effect doing something kinda (dare I say it?) evil. Providing W&H with work, once again, and even seeming to be sorta W&H-y.
Now, stop yelling at your computer screen, don’t give me that Angel didn’t do an evil deed bullshnit. He did what we seem to do every election year, chose between two evils. On one hand you have perfect happiness, utopia, with the down sides of possibly being eaten by your savior and losing free will, on the other you have chaos, people going back to hating their lives and feeling empty and unfufilled, but oh yeah they get to choose that, and they may still be eaten by a beastie but just not a false prophety one. In the grand scheme of things both of these options were bad. I loved the big diatribe about how Angel was mad at Jasmine because his life was brooding and helping others to make him feel better, and not being able to do that was killing him. That the AI crew’s entire self identiy rested on ‘helping the helpless’ and with Jasmine in the picture they lost their purpous, and without being Jasmine-zombies they didn’t get her purpous either. The big deal being that people want to fill their lives with meaning, and purpous and when that is gone, what do you have? Wow, talk about deep for a Wensday night.
I thought this episode was F-ing brilliant.
I, personally, up until now have not been a real fan of Angel’s. I don’t really like him unless he is evil, but this season I saw the old Angel. The Angel we first saw on Buffy, who was witty, and a bit harsh at times. Now I only hope that a trip to SunnyD doesn’t make him lose his edge and become the slobbering Buffy lap dog that so many Vamps seem to turn into around her.
I hate to say it, but I think Spike’s gonna Shanshu. Actually I think he’s gonna Shanshu because he is gonna make a sacrifice that Angel can’t afford to make. But thats just my opinion, and I haven’t read any Spoilers so don’t spoil me at all.
I also hope that when Angel shows up in SunnyD that he brings some of the build up and excitement generated at AtS this season which BtVS has been seriously lacking. I love BtVS, but right now I am just not feeling like this is the end, things are moving too slow with so little time left, its kinda maddening.
BlackEyedGurl, Adrianna
Well, I had pretty much given up on ME after the disasterous last couple seasons of Buffy, and the dissapointing (at best)past year of Angel. And the latter show’s being opposite The West Wing didn’t help. So for the last month or so, I’ve been watching WW
and checking in on Angel during the commercials. Kind of depressing how easy it was to follow that way, too–you get all the big points without the pissy bìŧçhërÿ and padding.
It also has the advantadge that unlike Peter and the rest of you, I missed the opening credits last night and was therefore caught completely off guard by Lilah’s reappearance. Since her death and beheading were the last straw for me (I have a thing about the truly interesting and likable women on ME shows ending up dead on the floor, see Tara), her resurrection left me with my mouth open and actually anxious to see next weeks episode (dámņ, now I gotta figure out how to program my VCR).
However, I still don’t know how I feel about whether Angel should be renewed next season. On the one hand, it never got as maddeningly bad as Buffy did (and was also generally a lot lighter and brighter, which is saying something right there), but it also never, to me, found a consistent tone or level of quality.
There’s a lot of “if’s” here. If…
Angel (the series) can really make a new start next season, and leave all the šhìŧ behind (one big problem I think this season had was covering up the messes of last year)
Steve DeKnight is made show runner (the best episodes seem to have his name on them)
The WB can move it to another timeslot (Mondays will be good for me, if anyone’s looking in)
Lilah is written in as a regular (and Fred, Gunn and Connor are written out)…
…then yes, I’d be happy to see a fifth season of Angel. Especially if they could possibly go into it knowing it would be the last season, and not stagger to a halt the way Buffy is.
Re Angel’s forthcoming return to Sunnydale, I suppose the thing I;m most curious about is how he’ll react to Buffy and Spike having been lovers (as he must find out).
Re Spike’s possible death: There was a time when I thought the perfect ending for both shows would be Spike’s dying in some way by which his sacrifice allowed Angel to become human and be with Buffy, but given that ME hopes to continue Angel and SMG almost certainly isn’t one of the Buffy
cast who might be moving over, that’s unlikely at this time.
I suppose I will tune in for the Buffy big series finale, but right now I just don’t care enough anymore to watch the glacially-paced steps in between. It seems clear to me that ME ran short of ideas for the UPN seasons and had to stretch them out interminably.
What that Lyla, or was that the First ?
Ben- for someone who only watchs the show the show during the comerical breaks- you sure have a lot of ideas about what is wrong with the show. While I will admit that buffy has pretty much blown all year- Angel has “Oh my God” moments week after week. Not not just from shock (ie- Xander’s eye), but from storyline revelations. Thats something even West Wing hasn’t had this year (I have tivo and a VCR- so I can watch both). And if the shows stays as strong has it has this year next year- I’m all for season 6 and 7 too.
Anyways- thats my 2 bits
Wolfram & Hart never made much sense to me. It seemed like such a bad deal for the lawyers. They were all unquestionably brilliant (anything less than that would mean getting “terminated” after all), so they could have gotten legit work and done well without, you know, selling their souls and risking eternal dámņáŧìøņ and living a life of fear.
It’s not like being in the Mafia — in which conditions usually force you into such a life. No, this just seemed like “decisions very dumb people make.”
It just hit me.
Connor broke into the church for only one reason. Not to wake up Cordelia. Not to protect her from Jasmine. He did it because he needed someone to talk to.
He’s already alienated his father and all his friends. And, ironically, in order to talk to Cordelia, he had to tick off Jasmine, his last remaining ally. Whom he later killed.
Cordelia’s the only person he’s got left. And she’s unconscious.
Poor kid.
–Daniel M.
Yossi-you missed the “for the last month” part of what I said. Up until the second episode with Faith this season I’d watched every episode in full, which I think entitles me to at least a few ideas about what’s wrong with it.
All year, Angel has had only
three moments that left me either shouting “Yeah!” or open-mouthed with shock (Angel confronting Connor in the opener, the “it was only a dream” revelation, and Lilah). Other than that, much like Buffy, it’s turned into a lot of yeahyeahyeah getonwithitalready!
West Wing isn’t really a fair comparision because they aren’t on the same level. I don’t
want to get into better, worse, but not on the same level. It’s like comparing a comic book (a really good comic book, as Buffy and Angel used to be)with a movie or a play; they suceed or fail on different levels. Or like the difference between a punk rock or a classical concert, you can get a lot out of either, but you wouldn’t expect to get the same out of both.
For one thing, enjoyment of ME’s series seems to have become dependent on, as you put it, “Oh my God!” moments, wheras enjoyment of WW is the more consistent pleasure of a good writer with good actors.
All that said, today’s announcement that said writer/creator Aaron Sorkin is leaving The West Wing at the end of this season means the WB can now feel free to schedule Angel anywhere they wish (can’t you just feel them exhale?)
What I love best about this last arc, specifically, is the whole father-son dynamic. Poor Conner. I don’t hate him anymore. After he came back from Quortoth (sp?), we all but forgot what he’d been through, why he was such a little brat, why we hated him so much. His life has been nothing but suffering. After 16 years of pain, he’s brought to Earth only suffer more. Now, when the whole world has a chance to be happy, he’s the only one incapable of hapiness. His life has been nothing but pain, and there’s been no way to end it. He doesn’t agree with AI on what and why they do what they do. He doesn’t have a family to spend time with, he doesn’t know love (that line about Angel stealing his girls was great), and now, when world peace ensues (only to be destroyed shortly thereafter), he’s immune to it.
Wasn’t that the whole theme behind the first season of Angel? Angel, for all his fighting and crusading, was never able to be a part of humanity.
Connor isn’t a second-rate cog in the drama machine, he’s a victim, without a prophecy or a Buffy to give him hapiness.
Kudos to the Whedon team.
Just had a thought.
Imagine everything that Jasmine did …
Now, imagine it if it was Cordelia.
Remember, Charisma Carpenter’s pregnancy made them rework the season arc a little. Eliminate the pregnancy, and what you have is …
A higher power who returns to earth , who knows better than everyone else what they need, and who will give them peace and joy at the price of their own free will.
Saint Cordy … could have been great.
Of course, Jasmine was pretty great, too.
I wonder, though — would the story have been better with Cordelia in the Jasmine role?
There are major MAJOR spoilers ahead. I’ve forgotten how to do the blank out spoiler thing, so please don’t read this post if you don’t want to know anything………
I’m not kidding there are major plot revelations, and story line enders in this post so please don’t read it if you don’t want to have it ruined……
YOU’VE BEEN WARNED!!!
!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!
Wolfram and hart are offering a reward to angel and company because they ended world peace. Pretty evil act if you ask me.
The windows were ‘necro tinted’ keeping out the part of sunlight that is bad for vamps. So no angel isn’t human. Just magic windows.
Don’t get to cuddly with Conner. He goes buggy next ep and takes hostages and kills people. Angel has to take him down.
Hard.
Lilah has a binding contract with Wolfram and Hart. Not even death gets you out of your obligations with these fools. So they brought her back.
Angel and co do take the job offer on two conditions. 1 he gets an amulet that helps Buffy with the first, and two his son is taken care of.
Angel kills conner, and he is reborn with a new family and new memories ala Dawn from Buffy. He is tottaly erased from everyones memory as Angel’s son. The only one that remembers him is Angel who checks up on him with his new family. Conner looks happier than he ever has as Angel heads out to Sunny D.
On Buffy, Angel has no effect whatsoever. he and Buffy kiss, pìššëš øff spike, then he gives her the amulet and she tells him to leave. She needs a second wave in case she can’t stop the first.
Buffy and gang cast a mega spell that turns every potential Slayer into a full blown slayer, and the army dives into the hellmouth and attacks the ubervamps.
The gangly chick, Anya, and Spike all die destroying the hellmouth and the first.
Willow becomes a Goddess, white hair and all glowy as she casts the spell to distribute the girl power.
As a result, since the mayor built SunnyD to harness the power of the Hellmouth SunnyD collapses in on itself and is forever destroyed.
Dear God I hope NOBLE is WRONG! That would be such a crappy ending to both a season and a show. It makes little sense for character or action. The Angel stuff seems a bit more “believable” but the BTVS stuff now has me worried. Ok, it’s over. I never trust anything I read out here as anything more than opinion. I mean, I’m hoping the teaser for next Angel is showing a “dream” of sorts again. A mind trick. Angel gets a gift (sun walking), Wesley gets Lyla, and that’s all we see. But hey, I’m guessing. I mainly just wanted to offer my prayers that Noble is completely friggin wrong!
Noble isn’t wrong…
But this week’s Angel… WOW. Go Conner. Finally did something right. My big complaint was that the rest of the team did nothing the entire story.
Wow. They killed a Power that Be… Maybe we’ll actually get to have the other ones involved again next season? Or at least let Cordelia wake up for a bloody scene…
Is it just me, or is enterprise getting a little desprate for ratings now?
If Noble wants to add so many spoilers, they need to learn to use the code to make it invisible. I am not upset – because I read too much stuff about shows I like — but that is a lot to scroll down through for those who hate spoilers and not see something…I just watched the show before looking here (at least I did that 🙂 )
This episode could have been the season ender in my opinion (but I am glad we have one more to look foward to…)
X
But some of them sound pretty ridiculous anyway…..LOL
X
Note that, per my request to Glenn, the HTML code that you can surround spoilers with to make them invisible until selected is, well, listed right under the “Preview Your Comment” “Post This Comment” buttons.
As to Angel Shanshuing…I don’t think it’s going to happen unless he faces another demon that has magic blood. Didn’t Jasmine say SHE never knew whether Angel would be Good or Evil? I think that means that she wrote those prophecies to give Angel a reason to go on in the fight, to get him to the point she needed him to be at to allow her entry into the world. She offered him what he wanted the most. Anyone else feel sorry for Jasmine at the end?
Thanks for the heads up on where to find the spoiler html code.
I couldn’t remember how to do it, or how long ago it was posted.
But seeing as how I can’t remember how to put my pants on most of the time, I suppose this is par for the course for me 🙂
Thanks again!
Wait a minute….As I was getting ready to post this message, I just spotted the code at the bottom of the page….
DOH!
I is an idjit 🙁
I don’t feel sorry for her. She subjected us to Conner and Angel singing karaoke, and that’s just unforgivable.
Oh, come on, that was a good kind of pain. I sat there watching that scene with a mix of absolute horror and amusement.:)
Since there are others now supporting the validity of Noble’s “spoilers”, I must spend the next week saddened bye the loss of a truly wonderful show. not because it’s ending but because it is being destroyed with silliness. Entertainment is one of the few places where the end cannot ever justify the means. If a story ends like crap, it is a reflection on the WHOLE series. I would have rather it ended after last seasons ending. As for Angel (since this is an Angel piece), I just hope they can get past this. Sure both shows suffered and both had a near shark jump when they added a young cast member. I men, they both lost a big chunk of their “monster of the week” shows when they added Dawn (who should’ve died instead of Buffy…period) and Connor who just can’t be likeable. At all. In no way. Not the actor’s fault, either. they have a character they can’t do anything with except make Angel a wuss because he has to try to be a daddy. Growth is fine in a show and should be encouraged. But the Angel people seem to believe they were stuck into a corner like with Charisma’s pregnancy. But they can kill connor. Easy! And let Angel do it! Please GOD, let Angel do it! And then let him get over it…I don’t care…wipe his memory or make Connor be a pawn/totem of evil and NEED killing. Or better yet…put Connor and Dawn in a car together and drive them off a cliff. now that would be a GREAT crossover. That’s the only bright spot of some of those spoilers… the possibility of losing Connor. My question though is why would the actor playing Spike reference moving over to Angel after Buffy in several interviews if it would not be a possibility?
Man I am so pìššëd! Not because I know. I knew about the Vader/Luke/Leia thing well before the movies came out. I knew about most of x2 before it came out. I still liked all them and more. Probably because the stuff I learned was GOOD stuff! Joss must just be pìššëd about losing Firefly. I know I am. But if the Buffy finale is how he ends a show… maybe it’s best it wasn’t his decision on Firefly.
You know I thought this week’s episode episode was oddly familiar and then I remembered. Deadpool. This whole Messiah who takes away free will was done in Deadpool 22-25.
Maybe Joe Kelly should say something
As for the spoilers they do sound terrible which is why i kind of hope they are true. The ME shows really haven’t been very good. (angel has been better but I have to say if I hadn’t been watching from the beginning I can’t see myself starting in the past 2 years.)
I’d hate for the show to end on a brilliant high note because I’d be mourning for the fact that this can be so goodbut just hasn’t Ending badly would give me at least the sense that the show just ran out of steam and it couldn’t work after highschool.
A couple of people mentioned how odd it was that Gunn managed to break the cell open when Angelus couldn’t, and when you think about it, there’s a relatively simple answer to that: Angelus weakened it enough for Gunn to be able to finish the job. Had Angelus kept it up just a little longer while he was in the cell he’d probably have broken it himself.