My response on one of the questions on the Q&A thread has touched off a flurry of discussion over on the Talk@newsarama section at Newsarama.com. Specifically, it was the one asking about a potential new project that Tom Brevoort alluded to, to which I said that yes, something was in development on a character whom I’d written before, but there was nothing definite. This response was reposted over on Talk@newsarama (minus the “But there’s nothing definite” advisory, naturally) and now bunches of people are discussing what they think the new project is. Which is fine.
But I still find myself shaking my weary head when I see people saying stuff like, “Peter David’s comics don’t sell the way they used to.” Putting aside that no one’s are selling the way they used to, this belief only works when one is willing to ignore three little words: “Hulk: The End.” My first Hulk book in years not only outsold that month’s issue of the hotly hyped Bruce Jones “Hulk” (at twice the cover price, mind you), but a retailer at the Big Apple convention told me that he routinely asks $45 for the ones he has for sale, and gets that asking price.
If you write the books with the hot characters, your books sell very well. If you take a character who was once hot and do something new and different with him, your book will sell very well. Years ago I was writing Spider-Man (a perennial hot character), Hulk (with whom I did something new and different), and X-Factor (mutants=hot), and they all sold. None of the books I write now fit that mold, so they don’t sell the same as those I was writing years ago. Not much more complicated than that.
PAD
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Well… I buy your books. And recommend them to anyone within reaching distance.
Hulk: The End kicked major booty, especially compared to the trash that is the “Incredible” Hulk, at the moment.
Wow, I had no idea the book was going for that much. Recent auctions on eBay have ended upwards of $50, though sometimes as low as $25 or $13 (from a month ago).
Glad I got mine when I did. So far it’s the only The End book that has been worth reading. (yeah yeah, I know there’s only been one other one that’s finished and the current Wolverine one)
-Ralf
Now that the we relearned the Emperor’s New Clothes fable with Bruce Jones’ Incredible Hulk, I’m praying that PAD returns to the title. Wouldn’t the return of the character’s (arguably) best writer create sales?
Oops, sorry for the wrong quote. That was my fault. The PC I’m sitting right now cannot paste, so I wrote everything down I read from a different window. Somehow I must have overseen the last sentence. And what an important sentence that is. It puts everything in another context. I’m going to explain that on newsarama. Sorry for that.
For “not selling as much as you used to”, I think most posters on the board agree with your comment about the difference of writing a “big” charcter and an “not-so-popular” character.
Pascal
“Now that the we relearned the Emperor’s New Clothes fable with Bruce Jones’ Incredible Hulk, I’m praying that PAD returns to the title. Wouldn’t the return of the character’s (arguably) best writer create sales?”
Not necessarily. Claremont’s return to the X-Men hasn’t sparked any kind of sales revolution. I don’t think a Byrne or Lee or Simonson or Englehart return to Fantastic Four would do anything to increase sales dramatically for that title either.
-Ralf
I also wrote something like “his stuff doesn’t sell as well as it used to”. I didn’t mean it that way though. (I know it sounds weird, but I’m german, and I only write in a very simplistic english, so there are often misunderstandings). Everytime a great book of yours gets cancelled I always hear “because he’s not as good as on Hulk” or something like that. It hurts for a fan of your work. Having read masterpieces (yes, I mean it) like “Supergirl” or “Spy-Boy”, or “Captain Marvel”, I’m always disappointed that everybody acts as if they are as good as they sell (in comparison to “hot” titles).
What I am saying is that I really want to read an ongoing title written by you that features a major Marvel character, so that I won’t fear cancellation everytime I look at the Diamond numbers.
And yes, for a fan, it’s important what other fans think of your work, too. Hope you’ll understand.
Pascal
I’m surprised so many liked The End. I thought The End was awful, so much so that I traded it back to the shop I bought it from. And I received half the amount of the cover price. I never played the comic book stock market worth a dámņ so missing on the $45 scam totally sucks. I thought Dale and Peter returning on the Hulk was going to be fun, but in my opinion it was slow, boring, and depressing.
I don’t think a Byrne or Lee or Simonson or Englehart return to Fantastic Four would do anything to increase sales dramatically for that title either.
Probably not, but Simonson returning to Thor… Now THAT I’d pay money for…
Travis
Re: a Simsonson return to Thor
I’m of two minds about that. Yes, I’d buy it, but with great fear that he wouldn’t be able to go home again. Then again, Miller was able to on Daredevil, so who knows…
-Ralf
What about Supreme Power that is doing really good and it’s an all new series with all new characters.
I think if you have a good writer and a great artist the comic will sell.
My response on one of the questions on the Q&A thread has touched off a flurry of discussion over on the Talk@newsarama section at Newsarama.com. Specifically, it was the one asking about a potential new project that Tom Brevoort alluded to
Why is it always my questions that wind up causing trouble for you? 🙂
I haven’t bought comics regularly in 10 years, but a Walt Simonson return to Thor? Assuming he does what he did best- tell epic, godly Norse stories – I’d be buying them in a heartbeat.
What about Supreme Power that is doing really good and it’s an all new series with all new characters.
Supreme Power isn’t really all new… its based off of an already existing and acclaimed series by Mark Gruenwald. Its a retelling of Squadron Supreme… yes its updated with some changes but still basically the same with the same themes…
Peter, I have faith that whatever you could do with Hulk again would be a huge improvement. No direct disresect to Bruce Jones personally, but his Hulk books are hollow, empty crud. I think about what you said about working inside current established timelines, and that is very brave considering the mess the current book is in.
As a big fan of your Hulk book, I’d like to see you give it another round…
I don’t really think bringing back old writers(Byrne + X-Men) works the same way that bringing back artists does. For example, art is visual and really sticks in our minds. Many of us remember Jim Lee’s classic runs on books like X-Men and when we see something new of his we pick it up because it brings back memoris of the “glory days.” Now, combine that with a great writer, like DC did with their Batman book, and you have a hit.
I’m not so sure about that “art sticks in our minds” thing… mostly i remeber the stories. while thats partially the art as a comic is usually filled with it… its more the writing than the art that keeps me going. I stick through bad-art on a book if i like the writer… and i almost never buy a book soully on the artist. Peter back on Hulk is a good idea. Claremont back on X-men is/was a good idea. I loved it when he returned and i love X-treme now. Did Hulk get any better when Keown came back? nope Its still Jones writing and thats why. Its the writer who tells the story with the help of the artist.
Keown didn’t come back. The current Hulk Artist is Mike Deodato Jr. Dale is going to be working with Paul Jenkins on a Darkness/Hulk project next year though.
Hulk right now is suffering from probobly the worse bout of Editorial Laziness I have ever seen in a comic book in my lifetime. as far as Im concerned nothing good can come of any writer change on Hulk unless Kit Keefer…I mean Axel Alonso steps away from the book.
“If you write the books with the hot characters, your books sell very well. If you take a character who was once hot and do something new and different with him, your book will sell very well.”
Unless, of course, you’ve made that once hot character suck even more with your “new and different” changes.
“If you write the books with the hot characters, your books sell very well. If you take a character who was once hot and do something new and different with him, your book will sell very well.”
Unless, of course, you’ve made that once hot character suck even more with your “new and different” changes.
Not necessarily. Fans will give A-list characters gobs of time to get their act together under a new writer. “Fallen Angel” I feel like if I have one off issue, I’ll lose readers. “Captain Marvel,” I already had readers snapping their fingers as of issue #7 going, “Okay, I get it, he’s crazy, bored now, outta here.” Yet I see reviews of “Hulk” where people say, “I’ve hated this book for going on two years, I have no idea why I’m staying with it even though it’s so bad.”
Why? That’s easy. Because readers are willing to make long-term financial and emotional investment in the characters who have been continously published since the 1970s, and they’re not willing to do so for other characters.
When you’re on an A-list character, fans cut you slack. When you’re not, you’re on a *very* short leash as many fans practically look for reasons to drop a title rather than stick with it.
PAD
Of course, there are exceptions to that rule; there are plenty of people (myself included) who will drop a book they don’t like very quickly. I always assume an issue or two might just be off, but two years? I wouldn’t buy something I’m not enjoying for more than four months, and that’s only for a series in which I’ve emotionally bonded with the characters.
For example, Young Justice, which I loved, had kind of a slump after Robin left the team (I felt, anyway; Robin was my favorite character in the group, and while he was gone, the team really just kind of hung around the house), but I kept reading because I loved the book. Even though I thought World Without Young Justice was an ill-concieved and poorly-executed crossover (save for the YJ and Impulse issues — your issues were great, and the Impulse issue established the story well), I was there waiting when the series was back up and running. I gave YJ more slack because I loved the book than I would have a book featuring popular characters I didn’t enjoy as much.
Okay, I hate fan-boy type fanatasism (sp?)uber-praise posts like I hate root-canal… so let me balance mine with some non-fanatic stuff: I rarely agree with PAD’s opinions and politics. I think anyone who enjoys bowling has probably been hit by a few bowling balls in their time. I haven’t bothered reading his fantasy stuff because I’m not interested in fantasy books. I would read the New Frontier stuff but I keep losing track of what I’ve read and what I haven’t so I gave up.
…but if he returned to the Hulk, I’d buy it (and I don’t buy anything comics related anymore). And, honestly, I can’t think of any other writer I’d “follow” in that manner. I think Waid, Morrison, and Grant are incredible writers, but I wouldn’t follow them around the carol rack.
Bad art can ruin good writing, but good art cannot save bad writing. PAD took a really stupid character (actually, two: Hulk and Aquaman) and made them the best things on the rack. Let me compair it quickly to Giffen’s take on the Legion, which I love, but I recognize it really wasn’t “the Legion” but a wonderful spin-off of the heart of the Legion. What PAD did to H and A was bring lame characters to a greatness that WAS the heretofore undiscovered heart of the characters. Change either of these characters anyway you want it, but the One True Hulk (and Aquaman) are PAD’s versions.
As a writer, I can’t think of any higher accomplishment than what PAD pulled off with these two.
…but I still don’t agree with his politics… (darn good thing I don’t have to, to enjoy his talent, huh?)
its based off of an already existing and acclaimed series by Mark Gruenwald.
Which was based off of a lot of things. Including the Squadron Sinister, and other. Gruenwald just added to the myth, and that’s the version that was accepted.
JMS has taken that and stuck it in the “real” world (non-Marvel Universe) to show how a world would react to superheroes.
Excellent stuff.
Travis
JMS has taken that and stuck it in the “real” world (non-Marvel Universe) to show how a world would react to superheroes.
Ah.
So he’s riffing Miracleman and Watchmen instead of Squadron Supreme, then? 😉
Not only do I agree with you, but when you think about it, you know you made the charactor “Hot” to begin with. I’ll come out and say it straight out (I’ve said it before and I’m gonna say it again)
you were the best dámņ writer on the hulk period. I know, cause I was “convert” I remember thinking how stupid the hulk (title and all) was. but over time your style grew on me, the humor you injected into your stories, the fact that when you used guest stars the way you wrote them wanted me to know what was going on in their books (thor/x-factor(the first time)/x-men/punisher) only the other writers really didn’t hold my intrest….I’m babbling now so I better stop, but your right…
Great Writer + Hot Charactor = Cool Stories.
I don’t hate the current Hulk.
But I won’t miss the version when it’s gone.
Man I miss PAD on the book.
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