I think this is important enough to say separately from the previous thread, and it’s addressed to anyone who thinks I might be overreacting to a simple blowhard:
I take threats seriously.
Repeated threats, I take very seriously.
Repeated threats with others joining in adding suggestions, I take extremely seriously.
You think I shouldn’t?
You weren’t standing in an elevator with Bill Mumy at SDCC when a fan lunged for his throat shouting, “Send me to the cornfield, Bill!”
You haven’t had friends who have had to hire private guards, obtain court orders, and never set foot in certain cities, all to avoid stalkers.
You haven’t been subjected to letter writing campaigns of harassment from people because you *refused* to confront them.
You haven’t done a store appearance where a guy showed up and berated fans on line for a solid half hour simply because they wanted your autograph, and the store clerks wouldn’t throw the guy out because they were afraid of him, so you had to do it yourself.
And you don’t have to be worried that you’ll be standing at a convention holding your one year old daughter in your arms, chatting with someone, and suddenly some guy is going to come up to you and take a shot at you and he misses you and you’re standing there covered in your child’s blood.
And of course you can say, in the words of Superchicken, Well, Fred, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it. For every perk of fame, there’s a drawback. And that’s true as far as it goes.
But don’t for a microsecond think that I don’t take threats seriously. And for those people who claim they “know” the people making threats, and “know” they would never, ever, ever, do something truly violent: The majority of murders in this country are committed by someone the victim knows.
Yes, kids. I take threats seriously. If you don’t, that’s nice. It’s nice to be able to afford that luxury.
I can’t.
PAD
• 
I think he is planning on doing ‘something’ to PAD and I’m sure it’s not going to be good either.
Originally posted by fly on the wall “I may have to go with him. If he’s taking on Peter David, he’s going to need some tonnage to back him up.”
If this doesn’t imply a threat, then what would?
I’ve always looked at creators at cons and being there to sign products, sell their books and shake hands. If you’re lucky, you get a half of a minute to actually talk to them. If a fan wants a debate, it would be at the end of a panel, when the creator has some time open for questions and answers. Even then, if the question isn’t relevant to the panel, the creator would probably just ignore the question (or give it smart-assed answer that it deserves).
When I was reading the boards about this, I couldn’t help but wonder (probably like PAD did) where this “something” would happen. Artist Row? Panel Discussion Room? Hotel hallway outside his room? 3rd stall on the left in the men’s room?
Having met and talked to PAD at Dragon*Con, I’ve found him to be one of the most accessable guests there. I would hate to see that change because of threats, even if they are “just kidding”.
It’s important for fans to realize that creators time is often limited by the convention schedule and by the creators own personal time. And the creators aren’t there to have their time monopolized by some fan with a grudge about a comic published several years ago.
I’ve been subjected to very serious threats by folks who objected to this or that in my roleplaying game work, so I sympathize a lot, Peter.
It certainly is worth repeating that the vast majority of fans range from more or less okay on up to really, really good. I’ve made some wonderful friendships out of folks who began with courteous notes of appreciation, and there are a bunch of neat acquaintances out there, too. And it is a terrible shame that the bad behavior of a few imposes any difficulties on the ability of the many to interact with creators in a relaxed and comfortable way.
But there are some real sickos out there, too. Some are violent, and some pathologically wish they were and are restrained more by lack of competence than by anything moral or ethical. And violence is far from the only risk an obsessive can create. There are techniques of razor-sharp cruelty and blunderbuss harassment, too.
I have nothing but contempt for “I didn’t mean it!” and “But why are you making such a big deal out of it?” defenses for reprehensible speech. I think it would be greatly insulting to do anything but grant people enough respect to assume that they mean more or less what they say. All of us sometimes need to back up for clarifications or even outright retractions, but most of the time whe should be saying what we mean, and treating others as saying what they mean. I don’t want you (any “you”) playing guessing games with my meaning when there’s one clearly at hand, and I won’t do you the discourtesy of playing guessing games with yours, either.
There are lots of ways to be funny and critical and all kinds of good stuff without being threatening. Maybe folks need to spend more time reading Twain and Bierce and Mencken for a refresher course in this. It’s possible to be thoroughly exuberant and vigorous and downright entertaining about one’s likes and dislikes without ever making someone like Peter feel the way this round did. The fact that he’s offering up work for sale and is around for conversation is not license to treat him…well, any differently than you’d want to be treated yourself.
Well, I’ll step out of the lurker shadows for just a moment to make a couple of observations…
Threats are illegal. That’s called assault and can be prosecuted. (If they are followed up on, that’s called battery.)
If someone REALLY IS kidding, they better be someone known well enough so that it is obviously a “kid” – and if there is any question, then it’s a bad idea.
And besides, if he’d REALLY been joking, he would’ve said something like, “What do you do with an elephant with three balls?”
I remain,
Sincerely,
Eric L. Sofer
The Silver Age Fogey
Captain Comics Message Board Administrator
http://www.captaincomics.us/forums
Bruce? I didnt know you posted ehre or that you were a comics fan. I’m used to seeing your name on the WW boards, caught my eye seeing it here.
The guy has already apologized, but there’s one comment I didn’t get a chance to reply to…
Have any of those throwing stones never themselves said something reckless and stupid?
Yes. And I paid for it big time, which is why the same behavior in others makes me nuts.
Time to go tangentially into the law again…I’ll be quick, I promise.
Assault is the ‘imminent apprehension of physical contact.’ That means if I swing at you and don’t hit you, I’ve committed assault. Even if I’m kidding. If I point an unloaded gun at you and you don’t know it isn’t loaded…that’s assault. There has to be something more than words to constitute assault, although words can help create the ‘imminent apprehension.’
Battery is the physical contact. That’s right.
Many jurisdictions also have laws concerning “threats and intimidation” (as Indiana does). That’s where this would fall.
Actually, waving around any firearm still isn’t assault. Assault is a misdemeanor. Brandishing a Weapon is a felony. I know, because I have a criminally arrogant relative doing time for the latter.
If you want to pick a verbal fight with someone, maybe you should just say “I didn’t like this, and I’m gonna enjoy debating the author about it.” The guy’s apologized for a poor choice of words and I hope we’ve all learned not to mouth off at our keyboards when security will be present.
And besides, if he’d REALLY been joking, he would’ve said something like, “What do you do with an elephant with three balls?”
Walk him and pitch to the Rhino.
(Sorry. Didn’t want to leave that unattended to.)
PAD
Way you put it, it’s fair enough, PAD. After all, it’s you with the recognizable face and the desk in a convention.
Just to add regarding the incident with Starving Writer and the National Alliance for the Deaf– this occurred before PAD’s Supergirl deaf school issue came out, and it regarded, as I recall, a deaf character in Young Justice (I think a friend of Cissie’s).
SW had a heated argument with PAD over an unrelated subject (I believe it was political) and when PAD made him look bad in front of everyone on the board, he vowed that he would get revenge by writing to NAD and claiming that PAD had made defamatory portrayals of deaf people in YJ. He later produced a copy of the e-mail (subject headers and all) to prove it wasn’t an empty threat. When PAD’s Supergirl deaf school issue came out, SW claimed it was an F.U. to him.
The sad thing about this is, in his role as a moderator over on comicboards.com he’s perfectly normal and socially acceptable… but I guess he just couldn’t handle not having control over a message board situation.
Good Morning PAD:
I realize that threats are nothing to take lightly but I have meet you at some comic book store appearences and you are always accessible and friendly to the fans. I hope that you will continue to do so in the future, in spite of the insane people that exist in the world.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
Regards:
Warren S. Jones III
Do I recall correctly that PAD got some kind of recognition or award for the deaf school issue of Supergirl?
Mike: Yeah, been reading Peter’s log for a while, and have been a comics fan since well before I discovered rolegaming. (I can still vividly recall precise bits out of James Sherman’s first issue of LSH, Engelhart/Rogers Mr. Miracle, and like that.)
One important additional comment a friend reminds me of:
You may think you’ve constructed something so ludicrous that nobody could possibly take it seriously. But honestly, it’s a crazy world. With a few minutes of Google time, you can find home movies of people engaged in self-trephination – that is, drilling holes in their skulls to energize the brain by exposing it to good emanations from outside. You can find gay zoophiles writing stories about the hypothetical delights of being sodomized by kangaroos. You can find people who believe that all American presidents since Nixon have been clones under Soviet control. You can find John Byrne. 🙂
So if you’re planning a gag that depends on people realizing that it’s exaggerated…you need to plan some more. Reality’s ahead of you.
Threats are against the law kiddingly or not.
This has got to be the most insane thing I’ve read online in a mighty long time….
We had a stalker in a Jeri Ryan news group that used to threaten and you know what?? He is now in jail for stalking Jeri Ryan.
His name was Omar. He too kidded about it until the law caught up with him.
It is not cool to threaten or stalk. It’s always kiddingly onlune until something happens.
I knew the nut too. His posts were as way out there as could be. It is not funny period.
Insane internet threat-makers are among the reasons I don’t make my real name, address, and serial number public on internet discussion boards.
**We had a stalker in a Jeri Ryan news group that used to threaten and you know what?? He is now in jail for stalking Jeri Ryan.
His name was Omar. He too kidded about it until the law caught up with him**
There was a guy who called himself Omar on the comic USENET groups.He was pretty much a a&#.Was this the same guy?
Michael Norton
Yes, thats him!!!
And for the record, in the story, Mary Marvel was not raped. All right? Here’s the deal. For some reason, this cop in Leesburg takes Mary out to his car. From his point of view, he’s just giving her a good talking-to. From her point of view, he’s a leering old man trying to grope her.
What story was THAT (I’m assuming it’s one of the Supergirl’s if it’s set in Leesburg)? Especially seeing as this is Mary Marvel we’re talking about…
Never Mind. The Other thread makes it clear…
Bruce Baugh: Yeah, been reading Peter’s log for a while, and have been a comics fan since well before I discovered rolegaming. (I can still vividly recall precise bits out of James Sherman’s first issue of LSH, Engelhart/Rogers Mr. Miracle, and like that.)
I’m surprised you didn’t comment when the White Wolf/Sony lawsuit was brought up. (My take is that if Harlan Ellison can successfully sue the Terminator franchise, WW has a case.)
Regarding the “deaf character” thingy … Matt Adler’s the only one who got it right. It was indeed some issue of Young Justice, #23-25, or something like that. The Australia Olympics issue. Not the Supergirl issue that KET was talking about. Which I flipped through the store and found to be trite and boring with a hackeneyed cliche “evil big corporation ruins the live of poor innocent kids, and a superhero(ine) comes in to save the day” story. I said as such, and apparently KET didn’t like that I dared dis his favorite author. Whatever.
I did find the deaf parts of that story to be well-researched, but the plot sucked. But I digress.
Anyway, the NAD never got the e-mail about the Young Justice issue anyway, as the address was forged. And even if they had gotten it, they would’ve not done a boycott anyway. A comic isn’t worthy of their time. I knew that when I sent in the fake letter. And for the record, I look back at that and that was an incredibly dumb thing that I did and I apologize for doing that. I let my anger get the better of me. I realized that I was basically being a troll on PAD’s board and doing things I would’ve not accepted on my boards, so I decided to just leave the forum instead.
As for the Young Justice story, I only reviewed the first part of that storyline. With the second and third issues, I quickly saw that PAD was ripping off various Marlee Maltin B-movies in his portrayal of the deaf character, and by then I had stopped reviewing that many comics and didn’t really care enough to pop out a review of those two issues.
KET’s wrong about the “fallout” causing the message board to shut down. The site shut down because 9/11 completely destroyed any interest I had in reviewing comics for a long time (I think it took something like three months before I even cared to review a comic again), and I stopped doing updates to the reviews site. And when the reviews site stopped being updated, the board (which was the place to submit reviews to the site) naturally slowed down, as people were posting so they could see their reviews on the site. And with the site not being updated anymore, the board became pointless, so I shut it down.
PAD did threaten to sue me for libel. He also said that the next time he’d talk to me it would be through his lawyer. He didn’t keep that promise, though. Which one could argue makes him a liar.
And I saw PAD at a con recently in Baltimore. Didn’t care enough to say “hey” to him, as I was there for my brother. Wasn’t worth it to cause a scene anyway (I dunno if just saying “Hey, I’m Starving Writer, remember me?” would’ve caused a scene and didn’t want to risk anything). His wife’s nice, and his baby’s cute, though.
Food for thought.
http://www.bangornews.com/editorialnews/article.cfm/ID/411896/
Well good that you’ve brought this up, my friends. Sorry if I’m chiming in on this subject a bit late, but, if to add my own two cents on the topic, I’m very displeased with the knowledge that threats were made.
I myself once posted on a small forum where the first moderator assigned to it was pathetically dreadful, and worst of all, he was a hypocrite(he claimed to be against graphic violence in comics and movies, yet at the same time he blandly tolerated graphic violence against Jews in Israel at the hands of the PLO and the Hamas, and even against the blacks in the Sudan at the hands of Arab and Moslem slave traders in Africa). He allowed three or four very obnoxious members to insult some other members of the board, myself included, and to harass them them as well. I eventually chose wisely to boycott this forum, and am glad I did.
A couple months afterwards, a new moderator was assigned to the forum, and he was more responsible, and took the proper steps to throwing out at least 3 of those who acted up on the board. An interesting aside, get this, is that one of them was a newspaper reporter whom I later discovered may have been fired from the paper he worked for. Do I know this for sure? No, but I will say that if they did indeed fire him, they did the right thing, and it shows that someone was offended by his revolting behavior. In fact, I later discovered, that said reporter was once also a member of another forum where (shudder) other weird trolling posters of all sorts hung out, where he had been posting insulting messages every which way but loose, not to mention that they looked like they were written by someone who escaped from the loony bin.
It simply amazes me as to how weird characters like the one I encountered are considered de riguerre by some forum managers, which just goes to show how badly our society is deteriorating online.
As for this aforementioned forum, I later went back to it, but lost interest in it shortly afterwards. It was still too PC for my tastes, and I wanted to take more time to work on my college exams anyway. And who knows, in time, I think I’m going to quitting online forums altogether.
I think that, to set a really good example, if you see something that looks even remotely intended as an insult, it’d be best to intervene immediately, whether to address the parties directly or to erase the offending messages ASAP. Believe me, it could certainly work that way.