Well, THAT was epic.
Spoilers follow…
A major female empowerment story that drove the series to an eminently satisfying thematic conclusion. Just…not entirely blown away by the elements that got us there.
What I liked: Dialogue. Thank God. Everyone sounds identifiably like themselves again. Even though the first half suffered from stand-around-and-talk-itis, at least this time out I was more than happy to listen to it. Everything from the throwaways (Giles repeating his “The world is doomed” from the end of the second half of the pilot) to the self-deprecating (“Once I was a respected watcher; now I’m a wounded dwarf with the magic level of a doiley) to witticism (“Get out of my face”) to, most particularly, Willow sounding like Willow (“That was nifty!”) to the poignant (“I love you.” “No you don’t, but thanks for saying it”) indicated that Whedon was at the helm. Although I’m getting so keyed into his set-ups and punchlines that when Spike said “You don’t need your tongue to say hello,” I immediately said, “Well, yeah, you do,” and then Spike blinked and said much the same. And Wood’s principal-like introduction to Sunnydale high as he led the way was priceless.
Buffy taking charge, and doing so so confidently that the Wanna-Slays literally follow her into hëll. Quite a change considering a few weeks ago.
Ending with a bang. Well, we saw it coming. Although there was no story reason for it, everyone in Sunnydale cleared out, clearly signalling the town was toast by season’s end. Still, if you’re going to top blowing up the school, that’s the way to do it.
Dawn lightly kicking Buffy in the shin and their exchange. Easily Dawn’s best moment in a season in which even Whedon admitted she got short shrift.
Caleb’s demise. As Bill Mumy would say, Ouch, babe. For someone who considered Buffy an emasculating bìŧçh, demises don’t come any more aptly than that.
Wood didn’t get eaten, making that a first for Sunnydale principals.
What I didn’t like:
You say one deus ex machina isn’t enough? You say you want two? You got it!
It bugged me back in season 5 when the Scoobys pulled a spell out of their butt to defeat Adam, but it made thematic sense and it also set up the wonderful following episode. Here, Willow briefly goes cosmic and, boom, all the Slayer-be’s become Slayer-ares, as does every other girl with a smidgen of potential (although granted, I want to see that little girl with the baseball bat in action.) I’m not entirely certain WHY Willow had to wait until Buffy & Co. were in the midst of danger before empowering. I can come up with a few rationalizations, but I kind of wish we’d simply been told.
But that’s not all. A doo-dad which we’ve never heard of is given to Angel who gives it to Buffy who gives it to Spike, like a social disease. And it Just So Happens that said doo-dad is a major element in the destruction of the Hellmouth, even though no one knows what it is, how it’s going to work, if it’s going to work, what’s required to make it work, etc. It’s like planning the invasion of Normandy armed with weapons you’ve never seen, the instructions for which are written in Aramaic (yes, yes, I know Giles can read Aramaic, that’s not the point). With a storyline that seemed remarkably padded over the last ten episodes, we couldn’t have found time to build in a story arc in which they themselves acquire the doo-dad? Because if the object was to work in Angel for five minutes, they could certainly have come up with another reason.
No explanation for Giles acting out of character. No explanation for why, if the First simply wanted to destroy the Slayers, he didn’t just blow up Buffy’s house. If it was good enough for the Watcher’s council…
In sum, an ambitious episode that succeeded more than it failed, made some important points about taking charge of one’s life, and brought the series to a satisfactory conclusion…and considering the many series that fail to achieve that, it’s no small accomplishment. I just wish that more thought had been given to breaking down the overall season so the story arc would seem less hodgepodge and not feel so much as if they were–as Whedon himself said–coming up with plot twists just to have plot twists.
PAD
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I was fairly happy with the way the show ended. There were far more enjoyable points throughout the hour then there were pot holes, in my opinion. As for Spike coming to Angel next year….According to the WB’s website Marsters is definitely on board…and playing Spike! So now it’s just figuring how and in what form Spike will return.
Check out the site for info.
http://www.thewb.com/
Under the new “2003-2004” schedule, click on “Angel”
Non-spoiler spoilers:
In an on-line chat on the E! Web site on Monday, Nicholas Brendan said his Fox sitcom was *not* on the fall schedule but he’s still hoping for a mid-season pick-up.
He also confirmed that he had asked Joss Whedon about guesting on “Angel” and gotten turned down.
Emma Caulfield said she planned to leave the show this season whether it ended or not. She also said she wouldn’t have done “Angel” even if asked, apparently because she was just ready to leave Anya behind.
My question is – at what point did the first die? It looks like Buffy somehow stabs her to death, but The First doesn’t have a true form.
Help, please.
Why would the First Evil, which predates humanity itself, suddenly want to “ruuuule the world?” Or make Angel kill himself in season 3, for that matter?
The First, in fact, did not “want to make Angel kill himself” in season 3’s “Amends.” The First was goading Angel into taking Buffy out of the picture. When Angel announces his intention to kill himself, the First’s response is, “But that’s not the plan!” followed by a quieter, “But it will do.”
I don’t remember where I read it, but somewhere Joss has denied that either James Marsters OR Spike is scheduled to be on Angel next season.
He said something like “that’s not been decided yet AT ALL.”
So, maybe Spike is really most sincerely dead. 🙂
Well, i have to say first that i’m not a Buffy fan but i like watching last episodes, to see how they end a series.
Well, this one was very uninspired and was as bad as the Seinfeld finally.
The only good thing was the mention of THE BURNINATOR!
Of which i emailed StrongBad about 🙂
Possibly the thing I liked the most was that a show famed for its use (and occasional overuse) of metaphor finished off with the final metaphor being the idea of show itself taken literally. Buffy the vampire slayer, icon of female empowerment, empowered lots of females around the world. A meta-metaphor, perhaps?
Just had to post re Joyce’s prophecy to Dawn (“When it’s bad, Buffy won’t choose you. She’ll be against you.”).
I think that prophecy came true back in ‘Empty Places’ — things were bad, the house was divided and as much as it seemed that Dawn didn’t choose Buffy, it is also true that Buffy didn’t choose Dawn. “I can’t stay here and watch her lead you into some disaster.” Buffy chose what she knew to be right over what Dawn and the others believed (falsely) to be the wiser option.
Verdict…Joyce was right, and as usual the prophecies of the First were all completely correct if only they were correctly interpreted. Willow did use magic again and did indeed “kill everybody” on one side. Just not the side the First wanted her to believe.
I had a couple of thoughts. Now that Willow bought Buffy back from the dead, can she really die again? The First seemed to think that Buffy was dying.
Secondly, do I feel sorry for that 5 year old boy on the playground picking on a 5 year old slayer. She’s going to implant that tea set into his skull. Which they had put an age limit on the turning into a slayer thing.
Third, how are they going to identify and train all the slayers now?
Fourth, why did Amanda have to die but Kennedy got to live? And I loved the redheaded slayer, Vi, who got a lot of screen time and popped up out of really no where for the past couple of shows.
Five, I hope the next show is centered on rebuilding the council.
I think that prophecy came true back in ‘Empty Places’ — things were bad, the house was divided and as much as it seemed that Dawn didn’t choose Buffy, it is also true that Buffy didn’t choose Dawn. “I can’t stay here and watch her lead you into some disaster.” Buffy chose what she knew to be right over what Dawn and the others believed (falsely) to be the wiser option.
So, if the spirit of Joyce somehow knew that weeks or months down the line Buffy was going to leave the house… for a day… why would she feel compelled to return from the afterlife to “warn” Dawn about it. No harm comes to Dawn as a result of it. Harm comes to some potentials who follow Faith, but if Joyce wanted to prevent that, she’d have warned Buffy, right? It doesn’t seem to track.
This is so embarassing. Not only do I have multiple posts but in more than one place.
I got the error message on my work computer but I just thought it was the connection there so I posted again when I got home.
The only thing that’s keeping me from feeling like a complete Andrew is that it’s obvious that lots of others had the same problem.
Any chance someone is going to go in and delete all those multiples?
Talk amongst yourselves. I’ll give you a topic:
Who was right, Buffy or Spike?
I think it’s Spike but I’m a cynic.
Re: Joyce’s prediction. Maybe it was the contents of the briefcase in “Pulp Fiction.” On the other hand, it may have been when Vicki Vale wandered into the Batcave.
Other people wrote:
Was I the only one who felt short-changed on the Angel/Buffy wrap up??? Where was it? The loves of each other’s lives…and only a few minutes of wrap up??? Just to be clear…I am not against the Spuffy relationship…I just thought that there should of been more of a heartfelt closure to this Romeo/Juliet relationship? Anyone else???
I think the point of the scene was that the relationship between Angel and Buffy *wasn’t* over. There can’t be “closure” because, from that scene, it seems like Angel still loves Buffy (I guess Cordy was some cheap fling or something).
I guess Joss hopes against hope that SMG can be talked into an ANGEL guest shot or two in the future. Given she’s banking her newfound “movie career” basically on a sequel to one of the worst movies of 2002 (SCOOBY ironically), I’d guess if their’s an ANGEL Season 6, you’ll see her.
Oh, and the point of the Buffy-Spike scene at the end, “I love you” “No you don’t”–that kind of says that she likes Spike but doesn’t like like him, and both know it.
I actually think both scenes (Buffy-Angel and Spike-Buffy at the end) tied in nicely with stuff from previous years.
Remember in the Musical, Spike told her “when you figure out what you want, we all will throw a parade”–kind of shows that she’s never figured out her life. And in the Double Xander’s ep, Riley did this long speech on how much he loved Buff but ended by saying “But I know she doesn’t love me.”-I got the impression that he meant Angel was still on her mind. And always will be.
Someone else wrote: In the paper today they made a very interesting comment. For a show about girl power it essentialy came down to two men. who were ultimately responsible to save the world. Angel to give her the amulet and Spike to use it.
which is an interesting point.
Actually, whoever wrote that doesn’t really seem to have watched to show or understood what happened at the end.
The amulet Angel gave Buffy could only be used by a “resouled” person, a Champion. In other words, Spike.
But Spike would never have gotten a soul in the first place if not for Buffy. His love for her made him go to that voodoo guy and get resouled. And it was her believing in him when everybody else wanted him dusted that made him a Champion. If Wood had killed Spike 5 eps ago, they would of lost the Big Battle.
So basically, what Joss is saying is that the love of a fiesty blond hottie can make you be a better man, it can make you want to change your life.
So, Buffy ultimately was the major factor in the amulet working. And, in its own way, is a statement of “girl power.”
Best–Chris
Other people wrote:
Was I the only one who felt short-changed on the Angel/Buffy wrap up??? Where was it? The loves of each other’s lives…and only a few minutes of wrap up??? Just to be clear…I am not against the Spuffy relationship…I just thought that there should of been more of a heartfelt closure to this Romeo/Juliet relationship? Anyone else???
I think the point of the scene was that the relationship between Angel and Buffy *wasn’t* over. There can’t be “closure” because, from that scene, it seems like Angel still loves Buffy (I guess Cordy was some cheap fling or something).
I guess Joss hopes against hope that SMG can be talked into an ANGEL guest shot or two in the future. Given she’s banking her newfound “movie career” basically on a sequel to one of the worst movies of 2002 (SCOOBY ironically), I’d guess if their’s an ANGEL Season 6, you’ll see her.
Oh, and the point of the Buffy-Spike scene at the end, “I love you” “No you don’t”–that kind of says that she likes Spike but doesn’t like like him, and both know it.
I actually think both scenes (Buffy-Angel and Spike-Buffy at the end) tied in nicely with stuff from previous years.
Remember in the Musical, Spike told her “when you figure out what you want, we all will throw a parade”–kind of shows that she’s never figured out her life. And in the Double Xander’s ep, Riley did this long speech on how much he loved Buff but ended by saying “But I know she doesn’t love me.”-I got the impression that he meant Angel was still on her mind. And always will be.
Someone else wrote: In the paper today they made a very interesting comment. For a show about girl power it essentialy came down to two men. who were ultimately responsible to save the world. Angel to give her the amulet and Spike to use it.
which is an interesting point.
Actually, whoever wrote that doesn’t really seem to have watched to show or understood what happened at the end.
The amulet Angel gave Buffy could only be used by a “resouled” person, a Champion. In other words, Spike.
But Spike would never have gotten a soul in the first place if not for Buffy. His love for her made him go to that voodoo guy and get resouled. And it was her believing in him when everybody else wanted him dusted that made him a Champion. If Wood had killed Spike 5 eps ago, they would of lost the Big Battle.
So basically, what Joss is saying is that the love of a fiesty blond hottie can make you be a better man, it can make you want to change your life.
So, Buffy ultimately was the major factor in the amulet working. And, in its own way, is a statement of “girl power.”
Best–Chris
I don’t get why most assume it either won’t be Spike or he’ll be brought back like Darla was. The Powers yanked Angel back when he was in Hëll. Maybe Spike will be brought back as the new Champion (imagine how annoying that would be for Angel).
Maybe Spike will be brought back as the new Champion (imagine how annoying that would be for Angel).
Now there
So, if the spirit of Joyce somehow knew that weeks or months down the line Buffy was going to leave the house… for a day… why would she feel compelled to return from the afterlife to “warn” Dawn about it
Okay, but the way I see it, the First was doing its darnedest to isolate and erode the power sources. It appeared to Dawn as Joyce for the same reason that it appeared to Spike as Buffy (and as himself for that matter), and that it claimed to carry a message from Tara to Willow. Note that the first only appeared to those who had some power within the Scooby Gang (a pertinent question therefore, might be why it didn’t appear to Giles) and it appeared to each in the guise of a person whom they would trust or believe.
It miscalculated Spike’s resolve to follow Buffy when it appeared as Dru; it appeared to the Potentials as one of their own (Eve), thus as someone whose opinion they would take seriously. Even when the Mayor appeared to Faith, you can read his comments a couple of ways, but it was playing on the likelihood that because of the guise in which it appeared, the gang would take the prophesies literally. It knew that Buffy and the Scoobies presented the greatest threat to its success and pretty much all its interactions were designed to destabilise the gang.
So it wasn’t a case of Joyce returning to save or protect Dawn but rather the First creating the illusion of Joyce to further divide and conquer (if you will) the cohesion of the Scooby Gang.
Cannot agree with you more.
I love this episode for its intensity. I think it ranks as one of the best episodes in BtVS history.
But I just wish the whole season’s plot could hvae been structured better. And the finale’s plot explained clearer. Like you said, we *can* come up with an explanation, but I would much prefer to just have been *told*.
I want to go “ooh…!!”, so that’s *why * this and that happened! Ah ha!…
*sigh* But I still love this episode with all my heart.
Just to clarify my previous post — I think the goal was to isolate Buffy and have the Scoobies make choices that would ensure the Buffster’s defeat. Spike — kill innocent people (and be killed by Buffy), kill Andrew (and be killed by Buffy) choose the dark side and fight as Buffy’s enemy. Willow — kill herself and deny Buffy a powerful ally. Dawn — turn against Buffy and thus divide Buffy’s resolve by splitting her emotional ties. The potentials — wig them out so they couldn’t join the fight. Faith — make her distrust Buffy thus prevent the divide the slayer-power from being united.
Interestingly, it’s just occurred to me that the only one to whom the First appeared but who consistently resisted it was….drumroll…Captain Peroxide himself. Spike knew what it was pretty much from the beginning and even insane knew it wasn’t helping.
Gotta love the blond guy…
Just to clarify my previous post — I think the goal was to isolate Buffy and have the Scoobies make choices that would ensure the Buffster’s defeat.
I more or less came to the same conclusion. However i thought that apart from that Giles was working for the first. He should be able to know about the big counsel meeting when it was blown up. He could also have organized the potentials beeing sent to the Summers house and depriving Buffy ot the much needed rest keeping her on the ropes and off-balance.
Since he was in the house when she came up with the plan to attack the wine cellar he could have informed the first what to expect and how to best undermine her authority ( killing 2 potentials and wounding Xander).
The files W&H supplied to angel could mention the existence of a mole in the counsel. Buffy having had a good rest could have made the connection to Giles.
Could be that this was intended but they changed there minds since it looks like Giles might return to Angel as a reoccurring character. If that was the case that they could have claimed that he was possesed by the first like what we have with Caleb.
Alas none if that had happened leaving the impression that the first was not as big an threat as one would have hoped.
Although the final did not have the same impact as the end of season five it was OK.
Ok, sorry folks i just don’t have time to read through all of the posts, so forgive me if someone else has previously said what I’m about to.
A complaint I hear about this ep is when the slayers go into the HM before Willow did the spell.
I think they did that in a way to avoid the interference of the first, surprise attack stuff so #1 wouldn’t warn the UVamps and have them hang out by the door waiting to push out.
That’s the only explanation I can come up with on the basis of strategy to explain that other than the *the writing was bølløçkš* point.
All in all I liked this ep. Great character interaction, Nice tie ups (non BD sense of course) Nice inuendos toward the entire run of the show, All in all a good series finale.
I have to keep saying that because they killed my 2 favorite characters on the WHOLE D$#@ SHOW!!
I’m not bitter.
Thank god it didn’t go the way of the last season of xFiles, (though I’ll ne’er turn down a chance to see GA)
Well…I’m glad that I don’t have to do with Buffy what I have to do with the X-Files and pretend that the 2 seasons never happened. But it was close. The basic problem with seasons 6 and 7 has been raised elsewhere: how can you possibly top Buffy sacrificing herself to save the world…and her sister. After that, every other crisis seems small by comparison and apart from a few highlights the last 2 seasons just went through the motions. They were mostly out of gas after Season 5.
But the finale, while rushed, was pretty good and surprisingly understated.
A few complaints: these “Uber-Vamps”. Suddenly Anya and Giles and Wood are decapitating them after the first one knocked the stuffing out of Buffy in their first go. (A problem that the series has had all along, actually: are vampires really dangerous, or are they just people with fangs? As often as not, they’ve been portrayed as just been people with fangs. If Willow and Dawn can stake Vamps with a tiny poke of a pencil…why do we need a Slayer?) Anyway, if the Ubervamps can’t go out in the sun and Anya can decapitate them, I’m not all that afraid…I think the US Army can handle it.
Anya…a pointless death for a pointless character. I liked her, she was pretty and had funny lines, but served no real purpose most of the time.
But, all in all, a better ending than I expected given what was an often sluggish season. One thing I never understood about Season 7: it was universally agreed that Season 6 was the weakest: so how come they kept bringing back the members of the trio? Again and again and again?
Now that I think about, maybe I will pretend that Buffy ended after Season 5.
PS
Looking forward to the next Angel season and hoping that David B. will get to the gym and lay off the donuts…round mid-season when Angelus returned the dude looked positively puffy (note the double-chin around his neck collar when he’s chained to the floor in the episode where he and Faith share a mind-meld) but apparently went on a crash diet for the rest of the season. I don’t mind actors gaining weight…but I don’t think vampires should…or could, for that matter.
I don’t mind actors gaining weight…but I don’t think vampires should…or could, for that matter.
What…you think Kakistos was that huge before becoming a vampire? 😉
Jim: Except in V:TM Vampires are lethargic and generaly forced into sleep durring day…while in Buffy, Vampires just can’t go out in the light.
They aren’t really forced into it, they just experience the lethargy you mention, which is reflected by a limit on their dice pools. It’s also determined (mostly) by how close to humanity they are, so a vamp like Angel would be a lot less affected than the atavistic ubervamps. While Angelus did beat up on Faith during the day, that was after she’d been pretty banged up fighing the Beast.
I had been anticpating this since EW released its “End Of Buffy” issue. PAD is awfully good at making note what most of us think so here’s support for that realization…
Sad to see it go, the end was justifiable but not unforeseen.
I look for the flames after this, but there is a torch that gets passed amongst entertainment like this. Much as the Beatles claimed that Monty Python was the recipient of their populace garnering energy, so Buffy was the inheritor of the X-files flame. The contents of which is a dark and entertaining cynergy that allows the watcher (excuse the pun) to be taken by surprise once in a while. At least for me, most plots (especially for television) are so formulaic I am customarily forced from the viewing room because my moans and eye rolling ruin for those who might not see the inevitable.
But Buffy is over. Will (has?) Angel taken that torch? What is the next idyllic show to catch our intellectual and action-thirsty attention?
First off, I think I’m the only one who really really enjoyed the sixth season (with the exception of the Doublemeat Palace episode). The best part of the show was the turmoil between the characters, and season 6 focused on that exclusively.
Second,
I posted this a while ago but no one wants to help me. My question is – at what point did the first die? It looks like Buffy somehow stabs her to death, but The First doesn’t have a true form.
Help, please.
At the risk of sounding like a total unrealistic romantic, I’m going to comment on the ‘lack’ of Buffy/Angel wrapup. Angel was her first true love. Only the future will/would show who her truest of loves is. Now, here’s the romantic in me jumping out: I don’t think there’s ever an end to a person’s first love. There’s always that soft smushy feeling when you think about that person … even if it ended badly, the good times are just heightened in memory somehow. True love doesn’t end, no matter how the relationship ends … And that’s especially true in this case – they didn’t break up because the feelings between them changed, but because of the situation. I’ll stick my neck out even further, and mention PAD’s definition of soul mates: Fractured souls who find part of themselves in another. Those pieces will always be there, calling to each other.
Are Buffy and Spike soul-mates? Is Spike her truest love? Could be. It really wasn’t explored fully. He’s ‘in her heart’ … and that’s a start. She admitted loving him. And yes, I believe she does, BUT there are many different kinds of love, just as there are different degrees of soul mates. And I think that’s what Spike was responding to – a love that wasn’t the one he wanted.
~so ends the unabashed and proud romantic comment ~
That’s the thing Matt, in theory, it’s IMPOSSIBLE for “The First” to die without all trace of evil being eliminated from all of humanity. The First was supposed to be sort of like trhe snake in the garden of Eden, the original evil from from which all other pours. As long as there is jealously and need, anger and greed, the First will live, it’s just a matter of how much it can directly influence others. It’s army of UberVamps is gone, but as long as there is any unfulfilled desire in any human heart, the First will always exist.
It can have its plans thwarted, but it cannot truly be destroyed/eliminated/expunged/defeated in the long run.
Sorry if it sounds bleak, but that’s the impression I got of what the Firast evil is from this season and the Amends episode in Season Three…
First off, I think I’m the only one who really really enjoyed the sixth season
Your not the only one but we heavily in the minority. I loved season six and it one of my favorites. Good as season 1 to 3 are if the would have continued with that until season 7 i would have stopped watching it a long time ago. the most interesting part of this show was the development and growth of the characters.
It made a lot of sense to me that bringing Buffy back from the dead especialy from heaven would be something that you can not brush off in a few episodes. also the relationship with Spike was very logical since he was only one who must have had a similar kind of expirience
I have also seen quiet a number of comments on how Angel is so much mature then Buffy. I tend to disagree to this because Angel looks more like a traditional super hero show then Buffy. I can relate a lot less with characters and the problems they have to deal with. The acting talent in the show is also not up to par.
compare the acting talent of
Boreanaz to Gellar -not even close
Acker to Hanigan
Head to Denisof
True this season was not its best. And maybe it was time to stop but do not blame season six for that because i thought it was brilliant.
I also liked season 6. I think JW and company take a very novelistic approach to each season with the individual shows acting as chapters. Season 6 had some campy Villians 3 episodes and some angst filled Buffy/Spike ones. But Tara’s death and evil Willow brought it all to a brilliant climax that played all the better due to the trivialities of the earlier parts of the season. The shooting of Tara, the return of Giles and Xander’s heroism at the end effected me in a way that most TV does not.
One maybe loose thread. Though the blinding of Xander was horrific and showed how bad Caleb was. (More so than the death of a SWB, because we care so much more for X.) I though this would become more of a plot point than it did. I guess the “This is the one who sees.” comment was not the clue I thought it was. Was I the only one dupped?
“Not much for me to say about the finale since others have said ’em already… except for one logical inconsistency which I will point out and also refute in a schio episode of point and counter point. Spoiler Presto Changeo!
Buffy had been going on about how the Slayerettes had to make a choice, which was to accept the power of the Slayer or not for her battle plan. Willow got to kickin’ it, and awakened it in ALL of the potentials, not just the Slayerettes… uhm, doesn’t look like those other girls got a choice in the matter… and Buffy did go on a bit about how it was an important choice…Oh I’m sure Baseball Girl would’ve taken the power, but some of the other girls may have not wanted the power foisted upon them.
CounterPoint- maybe the choice was actually the decision whether or not the Slayerettes should accept the power, which would also be forced upon all the other potentials in the world-, that they were being asked to make the choice for those unaware potentials in order to make Buffy’s battle plan work.
Here ends your episode of Point/Counterpoint.”
course let’s not forget they also had to choose to go into the mouth of hëll and fight the vamps.
“Anyone else hoping that on the first ep of next season’s Angel we see Fred casually exhibiting super-strength as a Slayer? :-)”
no more confidence and surity of self yes but super strength especially considering how flexiable it is on these shows no
“5) Speaking of death (and poor storytelling), how about Preacher Caleb? What a useful character he was. So he attacked Buffy randomly a few times, poked out an eye and then got chopped to suey soon as Buffy got a pickaxe? And the way she did it tonight, like swatting a pesky fly. He sure was an essential part of the season…I think he was only written in because Joss felt sorry for him being part of that Fox series that tanked.”
could be since gina became the big bad on angel. who did he play on firefly? postion would help 🙂
“Just because a person gets the power, doesn’t mean they’re emotionally stable. I mean, look at Faith. She was pretty much over that ledge from the beginning, even before she killed the Mayor’s aid. I envision evil Slayers for Angel to fight next season. Without Watchers to tell them what they are, I can see that power going to their heads. Should be interesting, at the very least.”
I sometimes wonder if it is power or focus they get. if it is focus to tap that which is within themselves that might explain some of the fluctations
I tried to see if someone had already said this… but it looks as if no one did so…
That doo dad that Angel gave Buffy. Me thinks its the doo dad from Wolfram and Hart. After all, Angel does own that whole place…
Duh! Like, yeah Mr. Obvious.
SPOILER: Well, only partial, but TVGuide asks Joss about the scoop on Spike, and gets some partial answers. http://www.tvguide.com/newsgossip/insider/030523b.asp
Chris
About that victory…
1. If one Slayer keeps the vampires in balance, and two Slayers lets the First Evil have an army of Turok-Han and the anti-Slayer Caleb, what havoc do you suppose a world full of Slayers will wreak?
2. Anyone else see a KINGDOM COME future in the works? With dozens, if not hundreds, of young women gaining superhuman abilities and no Council to guide or train them, we’re going to end up with more than our share of rogues. For every abused girl who strikes back, you’ll find a perfectly-coiffed bully perfectly willing to use that Slayer strength to shove someone through a locker.
Interesting…
I see a lot of comments about the “dangerous” future of a world full of activated Slayers. I never thought of that. For one thing, the Buffyverse is already full of extraordinary creatures, werewolves, demons, and the like. My take on it was more like “Welcome to Marvel/DC earth.” Suddenly there would be these super-powered people but for every one who used their power selfishly, there would be those who would oppose them (Or you could say Good and Evil but I think those terms hopelessly naive…)
Could this possibly be fear of a super-XX planet?
Also, I don’t want to even *think* about the implications here. Does this mean that every time one of these girls die, another will be called? Or will their existence activate a field of potentials like what exists now? Does that mean that eventually, by sheer numbers, all women will have Slayer power?
Buffy has been presented as being in the Hal Jordan/Jim Kirk mode. The greatest example of that particular mode. I thought it was interesting to ponder whether that was earned because she “slayed” two vampires through love. Spike reclaimed his soul and became a champion for love of Buffy (Another interesting question: Do the vampires who are re-ensouled get their souls back or are they new souls? Do they get a fresh start or another chance?) Angel had already gotten his soul back when he saw Buffy but he wasn’t doing any real good with it until he saw Buffy. In fact, you could even say that he *allowed* Spike to kill Wood’s mother through what would be called on “Law & Order”, depraved indifference to human life. Then Buffy comes along and >Bam!< he’s a hero. (Another question: Angel apparently first saw Buffy on the day she was activated. So did Pike walk out of her life or was he pushed behind the scenes by Angel? Would Angel have allowed that relationship to go on without *some* attempt at breaking it up given what we know about how she affected him from first sight?)
Anyway, it seems that Buffy has caused *two* vampires to voluntarily reform while we’ve never heard of another Slayer who’s turned even *one*.
(And I know the Buffyverse, like most other genre fictions, can’t take too much scrutiny, but I find this really intriguing. Spike fell for Buffy while he was still a vampire only he had the chip. This lead him to reclaim a soul. Doesn’t that call into question the whole idea that vampires are just evil killers who deserve to be killed without mercy, frequently [on “Buffy”] mere moments after they’re “born”?)
Last thought for now: When I first saw Granny Clampett who gave Buffy the scythe, I thought my mind was being read because I thought it was a character I really thought would be a fascinating addition to Buffy’s world: An elderly or middle-aged Slayer.
It wasn’t, but think about the implications. The best of Slayers wouldn’t be much good in her 50’s. (Probably even before that but I guess depending on the person, maybe sooner, maybe later…) We’ve always heard that the death of one Slayer activates another but does that mean being a Slayer is a death sentence which requires you to die while young and agile?
Maybe it is. But wouldn’t it have rocked Buffy’s world if she met someone who got out of the life? Someone who was able to pass the power on because it was time not because she died?
This ties into the question I posed before about whether Buffy should be with Angel or Spike. I still think many interpreted my question as being ‘Which Backstreet Boy is hunkiest’, but what I was getting at is, What is Buffy’s fate? Some people have interpreted this series finale to mean that Buffy can now have a normal life. That may be true, but I don’t know if that’s what fans really see.
An example of what I mean: Bruce Banner will end up tortured and alone. Even if he ends up ridding himself of the curse of the Hulk, he will never recover and have a normal life.
Peter Parker will have at least one divorce. He’s not going to be as unhappy as Banner but he never *quite* gets to win.
Ben Grimm is married with grandkids. He was part of a strong family structure and whether he’s the Thing or not, he finds his balance.
Just my perceptions of the characters of course, but Buffy… I don’t know about Buffy.
There are other Slayers now. Faith has experience and I’ll bet a few of the Scoobies would want to stay involved in the Game. Now Buffy has expressed a desire to walk away but now that she *can*, *would* she? Can Buffy lead a normal life?
One thing that’s been bugging me for two seasons now and I just have to know if I’ve missed something. When Buffy died at the end of season 1, Kendra was called even though Buffy came back. When Kendra died in Season 2, Faith was called. When Buffy died (again) in Season 5,…
Were we not technically a slayer short for all of seasons 6 and 7? I don’t watch Angel so was it explained there somehow, or was there one we just never found???
Deb posed the question:
When Kendra died in Season 2, Faith was called. When Buffy died (again) in Season 5,…
Were we not technically a slayer short for all of seasons 6 and 7? I don’t watch Angel so was it explained there somehow, or was there one we just never found???
Joss Whedon made the comic book convention rounds a few years ago (I believe even attending the famed SanDiego Comicon) and was asked that exact question.
His answer was that once Buffy died in season 1, the “line of succession” didn’t go through her any more. In other words, each slayer only passes on being “The Chosen One” once.
So Buffy passed to Kendra and Kendra to Faith. Technically then, Faith was the last “Chosen ONE” since now there appears to be Chosen Thousands.
Pack wrote:
There are other Slayers now. Faith has experience and I’ll bet a few of the Scoobies would want to stay involved in the Game. Now Buffy has expressed a desire to walk away but now that she *can*, *would* she? Can Buffy lead a normal life?
I think you missed the point of the ending. It was pretty clearly spelled out in the last two eps. See the Buffy-Faith “we’re hot chicks with superpowers” scene for instance.
The point, it seemed to me, was that with only 1 slayer, Buffy had the weight of the world on her shoulders. She was expected to be, as the Slayer Tagline goes, “the one girl in all the world who fights the forces of evil.” She mentioned a few times how alone it made her feel having to be the only slayer. Now she’s one of thousands (if not more), the responsibility isn’t all on her.
And in case Joss or some other ME guy is reading this (I think they visit this site), may I repeat my 1 request for next season of ANGEL, make Justine a Slayer. Please!
Best–Chris
If one Slayer keeps the vampires in balance, and two Slayers lets the First Evil have an army of Turok-Han and the anti-Slayer Caleb, what havoc do you suppose a world full of Slayers will wreak?
I had a thought while watching (a couple of days after it aired) which was vaguely along those lines. Based on this thread, I seem to be the only one who’s thought of it, which surprises me.
My thoughts went something like this:
Okay, now every potential Slayer’s been activated at once. Let’s estimate VERY conservatively that there are, say, a hundred of them wandering about now.
Magic always has a cost — there are always consequences. What if activating a hundred Slayers “early” winds up short-circuiting the process for many generations — say, the typical lifespan of an active Slayer times 100?
Wouldn’t that explain the lack of Slayers we see in Melaka Fray’s time?
It doesn’t look as though that’s the way JW and company chose to go, but I thought it was potentially (pardon the pun) a nice way to set up some of the Frayverse.
As for the episode itself … wondrous dialogue (any show that makes me dislike Kennedy less is nothing short of miraculous), and some seriously nice moments. I wish the season had led up to this a lot better — I found myself holding on to way too many might-have-beens.
TWL
I haven’t posted on the last few episodes because of computer problems that lasted for over a month, but I couldn’t not comment on the Series Finale. I haven’t read yet most of the comments in here, so please forgive me if I repeat things already said.
I liked it, but I also had my share of problems with it.
I thought that they left way too many plot threads dangling with absolutely no explanation, which annoyed me a little. I realize that life isn’t always neat, with everything explained, but here there was just too much. For instance, the thing that the Eye Oracle/Demon told Giles and Anya, as far as we know, was never even brought up with anyone else. I was joking with a friend of mine sometime after Xander lost his eye that, keeping up with Xander’s “Demon Magnet” fame, the Eye Demon should have taken residence on the vacant socket, giving Xander “Knowledge” (sort of a reverse Odin deal), which could be used first to help the Scoobies and eventually to recreate the watchers.
Another plot, which was Joyce’s prediction to Dawn, a friend told me they were going to address but it ended in the cutting room floor. It seems that Dawn demanded to wear the amulet, since she’s also a “non-human with a soul”, but Buffy refused, hence the “not choosing her” that Joyce mentioned. I feel a little better knowing that there was supposed to be an explanation, but hate it that they didn’t show it.
Also I have to take some issue with the power fluctuation of the bad guys. They always seem to grow weaker whenever one of the Scoobies is confronting them. I can see the Scoobies taking on the bringers, but not on a bunch of Ubervamps (even regular vampires are supposed to give them problems). It’s ironic that it was the Bringers who gave them the most trouble, with one killing Anya and another seriously wounding Wood.
Aside from that, the episode was great! Dialogue as good as ever; epic final battle which I was wondering if they would be able to pull off in the time left, since halfway through the episode there had still been no sign of it; great resolution with the empowering of all the Potentials which opens all sorts of doors, which I hope will be somehow explored on “Angel” next season (along with maybe tying some of the ridiculous loose threads they left here). Also, some great visuals: loved seeing Willow with the white hair, wish the shot was longer.
I felt a lump on my throat when Anya died, and would have felt really bad for Spike if I didn’t know that he’ll be back in some form on “Angel”; poor guy, I wish he had believed Buffy when she told him she loved him (but the scene, and the story, are better this way).
All this showed me that Joss can still write as well as ever. I just wish that he had paid more attention to the show this season, whoever was in charge clearly had no idea what they were doing. It’s clear that they were lost, making things up as they went, and just throwing in as many plot points as they could think of, hoping that something would come of it.
So to sum up, I mostly liked the finale but I wish they had another season to clean up some of the mess that was left behind; although they probably would just have made things worse unless Joss kept a firm grip on it. This season was supposed to fix the last one after all (which it kinda did, but it also broke it’s share of things).
Raphy
Everyone should check this out, it’s the alternate script that, in my opinion at least, would have made a much better finale.
http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=731
Now there’s a couple things I’d keep from the version that aired, but overall this alternate script did a much better job of tying up some loose ends and wrapping up the series.
I thought the final season of Buffy as a whole sucked big time!!!!!!!! Buffy wasn’t Buffy anymore. Buffy became a self-cented cold- harted woman. Willow became a guilt-ridden incompetant coward. All Giles was ever good for in Season Seven was standing around all the time lectering the gang on what they should not do. And all Spike ever did was fulfill the obligation of being a sex toy for Buffy. And another reason I loathe Season Seven is no Tara!!!!!!!!!