And once more into the fray…(spoilers below)…
Okay…here’s the thing…
At the end of BTVS’s first season, in “Prophecy Girl,” Buffy suffered a crisis of confidence…by the end of act one. But she had her act back together before the end of act three, and kicked butt in act four.
Although she did experience what I can only think of as various forms of Post Traumatic Stress in the season openers of seasons 2 and 3, she pretty much kept her confidence level up there for the duration of those seasons…which may be why many folks feel those are the best seasons. Season 4, her confidence evaporated for the first episode, but she had it back again by the final tag.
Then, faced with the climactic big bad scenario of season 4…she melted down for an episode before getting her act (and group) back together halfway through next episode. Then, season 5: faced with the climactic big bad scenario, she melted down for an entire episode before Willow pulled her out of it. Season 6, she was off her game for…well…season 6, not getting her act together until the last ten minutes of the last episode.
And now, here we are, season 7…and she spends about, what, half a dozen episodes?, slowly becoming distant and unraveling until she melts down with a lack of confidence, before a pep talk pulls her out of it.
Again.
Now I grant you that real life goes in cycles. I’m just as neurotic now as I was years ago. Some things *don’t* change. But BTVS isn’t real life. It’s fiction, and it has dramatic beats, and we’ve been seeing the same dramatic beats five seasons out of seven. And it’s taking LOOOONNNNGER to hit those beats and LOOOONNNNGER to resolve them, even though they’re fundamentally being resolved in the same way. In seven years of doing this, Buffy should be becoming MORE confident, not LESS.
People, including myself, have been complaining about the snail’s-pace pacing. It’s not just the pacing. It’s that we’ve seem these dámņëd beats over and over and over again, and instead of Buffy becoming more efficient and capable, she backslides every time and solves it with increasingly diminishing returns.
Say what you want about “Angel,” but we sure aren’t seeing the same beats every season.
That said:
An improvement over the past few weeks, definitely. Once again, unfortunately, too leisurely pacing. Great ending sequence: Should have been the third act climax. Spending three quarters of the episode to get Buffy to the point where she’s been gotten to repeatedly in the past…it’s too much. And yes, there was prurient interest in seeing everyone else putting the “lay” in “Slayer, but did it advance the plot? At a point where the plot desperately needs advancement? Compare it to season 3 where Willow lost her virginity to Oz toward the end of the season and yet it didn’t seem to slow down the plot at all…as opposed to, Stop everything, there’s some foxy ladies here t’night!
At least, to the best of our knowledge, Andrew didn’t get any, because that would certainly be a sign of the Apocalypse.
And, of course, the capper: The rumors were true. Instead of Excalibur, Buffy is acquiring the weapon that, in the future, will be wielded by Fray. Now c’mon, admit it. Isn’t it fun knowing that about 99% of the Buffy viewership is totally missing out on that because they couldn’t be bothered to read a mere comic book? Then again, considering it’s taking three years for eight issues of a monthly title to come out…
PAD
• 
Back again…
Not really doing comments on the episode again.
Just been wondering the whole afternoon.
PAD, have you ever had an idea of pitching a SPyboy – Buffy crossover for Dark Horse. I know, completely different properties, and there’s that whole being a FOX property deal on Buffy’s case.
It could be kinda fun, mostly because could be set out of continuity and at anytime – in Buffy’s case – in History. With the freedom of twisting things as you desire. Could be fun back in those high school days.
Back to “Touched”, it’s amazing how the “scythe’ look live-action-ly. As I’ve said before, I alredy knew about through spoilers, but I wasn’t less surprised when Buffy saw it the first time. It was really cool, as cool as seeing Jean and the Phoenix Force (you can actually read Phoenix Effects during when the credits are rolling)in X2, but now in small screen. I paused the screen in all the close ups just to take a closer look at the weapon.
Johny
I don’t know if it was mentioned but to the person in Dallas.
Buffy did come on last night. At 11:10pm AFTER the basketball game went off.
**That’s what I’ve assumed, too. That is, this element’s been thrown in because it contributes to the overall apocalyptic and series finale atmospheres at work. I’m cool with that; it’s a necessity, as you say, for the endgame thematics.
But it hasn’t been given an in-story reason, and it’s therefore more distracting than effective**
Oh, yes, I agree. Kind of like the way Giles has been written (his abrupt killing of the Bringer being the latest example) which makes you wonder if you’re missing a story point or just seeing bad writing at work. I fear the latter.
PAD
Hmmm….judging from those pictures of the finale, it looks like the real, corporeal Angel will be in that episdoe, at the very least.
Still wouldn’t be surprised to see the First pose as Dead Boy I at some point over the next two episodes, though, given the strategic advantages it could provide over nearly everyone of its opponents, especially three of the four most dangerous (Faith, Buffy, Spike).
Then again, the First may well be an idiot, so who knows….? 🙂
Part of the leaving town might stem from all the havok that went down at the school when students were possessed by seal. After the school got trashed there, were there any school scenes with students in them? With all of the repeats thrown in it is hard to get a sense.
Anyway, if there was a direct line from that episode to people leaving Sunnydale then that might make sense.
Neil
Someone wrote:
“It seems I missed the part where Faith said where she and the Slayerettes were going to look for the weapons. Did they go to the school or the vinyard? “
Neither I think. They searched for a large underground cavern/area, on-line I believe.
Three more things:
1. I like the role that Dawn has evolved into… while it is a bit of a stretch to have her a master linguist it is nice to see her actualy have a non-hostage role in the series. Perhaps they are setting her up as a love interest to Connor and assistant to Fred on ATS next year… maybe she moves back to LA after something happens to Buffy.
2. Why didn’t the wise and savy senior members of the scooby team long ago institute required anti-non-coporeal high fives for greating… to prevent infilitration.
3. Something is definately going on with Giles.
One other bit of bad writing no one’s mentioned yet; just when did Spike find out the specifics of what’d gone down at the Slaya Slaya Slaya house? He comes in, figures out they booted Buffy, then leaves to go find her. When he finds her, he talks about what Buffy’s specific plan had been, etc….things no one told him about when he was at the Summers house and that Buffy’s had no chance to mention yet.
Other bit; I was also a bit fuzzy on where the weapons cache bit came from…and why they thought they needed weapons in addition to what they’ve already been shown having. I mean, they were going all “oooh and aaahing” over knives, which they have in abundance. A nice magic hammer, some rocket launchers, yeah, that’s worth some ooohing over, but another bunch of knives?
And where were all the slayer wannabes during the mass make-out scenes? Did Xander miss out on an orgy in the basement? 🙂
The Slayerettes were not looking for weapons for themselves. They were looking for the cache the Bringers had been making/storing (by finding a location large enough), as a way of finding the Bringers themselves…I think. I also think the oohs and ahhs were over the vast quantity of weapons collected, not the quality. But on my tv, it was so dámņ dark that I could barely tell what was going on, so I may be mistaken.
“It seems I missed the part where Faith said where she and the Slayerettes were going to look for the weapons. Did they go to the school or the vinyard? “
The Bringer they captured told them it was underground at the outskirts of the city
“it’s pointless. As is the electricity going out.”
The reason the power went out in Sunnydale was to isolate the Buffyverse from Jasmine’s broadcast over on “Angel.”
Thanks for the X2 spoiler Johnny. That’s just great. I mean, I was hoping to have aspects of a movie ruined for me. Thanks. A ton.
In general the episode was OK. But what bothered me a bit was that nobody seemed be the least worried about what happened to Buffy. Non of her so called friends bothered to check if she was OK. Sure after 2 days Faith sent a few people after her but that was not out of concern for Buffy
>>One other bit of bad writing no one’s mentioned yet; just when did Spike find out the specifics of what’d gone down at the Slaya Slaya Slaya house? He comes in, figures out they booted Buffy, then leaves to go find her. When he finds her, he talks about what Buffy’s specific plan had been, etc….things no one told him about when he was at the Summers house and that Buffy’s had no chance to mention yet.<<
It was worded such that he could have been referring to her earlier assualt on the Vinyard. I thought the same thing at first.
The reason the power went out in Sunnydale was to isolate the Buffyverse from Jasmine’s broadcast over on “Angel.”
That’s the out-of-story need, sure. Gotcha– and good catch.
But, in a way, knowing that makes it worse: there’s no in-story reason. Faith says something like “Guess the power company left town with everyone else.” by way of explanation, but that makes no sense. Electrical grids don’t work that way, not in this day and age, and certainly not in suburban southern California.
Now, if the writers had wanted to, they could have killed two birds with one stone and had the ‘Bringer reveal–with one lousy line– that a group of Bringers had blown up or otherwise sabotages a substation or several transformers in accordance with the First’s plans to use the Hellmouth’s energies and other mayhem to spread panic. That would have indicated that A) The First actually has a plan, as opposed to merely an attitude B) the writers were sweating the small stuff, like they used to.
Simplier expliation for the lights going out… rolling blackout.
To the the Droopy fan that decided to get personal about Eliza…MY GOD! What is your major malfunction? Comparing a human being to a cartoon dog? And not the nicest looking dog in the world either! And you think Eliza *can’t* act? You must be on really interesting drugs considering Ms Dushku is easily one of the MOST talented people I’ve ever seen in my LIFE! And…IMO…one of the prettiest too! Are you a ‘Buffy/SMG ‘fan’? I haven’t seen such puerile comments since Buffy fans first encountered Faith and decided to hate her “coz she’s after Angel'” Go watch Scooby Doo. Come back when you can talk like an adult. Or…better still…DON’T come back EVER!
I have a question for this board: Should Buffy end up with Angel or Spike?
Now, hold on, before you dismiss this, let me explain a bit.
I know that question isn’t going to be resolved. From all I hear, “Angel” is a virtual lock for renewal so his series has to go on and his girlfriend isn’t going to be a character who’s forever off-camera. Also, I keep hearing James Marsters will be appearing on “Angel” although it’s not clear if they mean that he would join the cast or guest star.
But I bring it up here because this is one of the few boards where the conversation wouldn’t devolve into “James Marsters is a HOTTIE” and “David Boreanaz is so COOL”
So approaching this from the perspective of character growth, series’ themes, etc. should Buffy go off into the sunset with her high school sweetheart or the guy she saved with her love?
Alison, take a chill pill, the man’s entitled to his opinion, personally, I like Eliza and am tired of that Prima Donna bee-atch SMG. Telling him to never come back because his opinion doesn’t match yours is just sad….
Pack, If you like dark and brooding, then I’d say Angel. If you want someone with a dark sense of humor and on the edge, go with me and vote Spike/Buffy ’03!
Thanks to all who explained what that thing in the rock was, but to all who complain that Buffy should just shoot her way out of her predicament, do you really think that anyone either behind the scenes of “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” or in front of the TV wants the program to be the umpteen-millionth to have the philosophy that all one’s problems can be solved with a gun?
It somehow reminds me of the kids who used to write in to DC to ask why Superman didn’t stop the Vietnam war.
Regarding Wood, I think he just has an Oedipal complex. His mom is dead, he wanted to lay a slayer, he had his chance, so he took it.
I keep waiting for Buffy to tell Spike (fulfilling Cassie’s prediction).
Regarding Buffy’s sudden change in attitude, I know there’s no indication that she and Spike had sex, but there have been some recent studies regarding a woman’s state of mind and ëjáçûláŧë (or whatever… I’m getting a little carried away here). Anyway, it cheers her up.
After reading the comments about the battle-axe first debuting in FRAY, I went back to the series to look at those scenes again. (I realized that I had yet to read FRAY #6 as I was waiting for #7 and #8 to be released first.) Buffy’s discovery of the axe/scythe has much more impact having read the narrative about it in FRAY.
However, while browsing through the story of the last Slayer in FRAY #3, I noticed one more possible connection between the comic and the TV Buffy-verse. As Urkonn describes the exile of the demons to other dimensions, Karl Moline’s illustrations show a variety of different creatures. One of them appears to be a female spider-centaur, much like the creatures who “worshipped her [Jasmine] first” on Angel. Neat nod, if that was intentional as well.
Matt
Pack, interesting inquiry regarding Buffy’s little love triangle though I have a hard time coming to any sort of personal resolve.
On one hand we have the guy who is supposedly the love of her life. This love is felt by both individuals and though they have both had to move on without one another I think by the show of the upcoming kiss they partake in when Angel makes his appearance next week on BTVS, they both still feel passionately about one another. Regardless it always feels like a tortured and tainted love, a forbidden love that will never again be in full bloom.
On the other hand we have the guy who won his soul back despite his demon heart, for the girl he loves. This love seems to be only felt by Spike really, and although I think Buffy has always respected him to a degree (enough not to kill him countless times) it is only recently with the arrival of Spikes Soul that Buffy has shown any tenderness towards him. Albeit a slow and arduous start perhaps it’s the kind of thing that can turn into a strong and fulfilling bond, a love that would be stronger that her and Angel’s.
Unfortunately we won’t be seeing either way or the other.
I think both affairs are deserving and strong, but from my personal standpoint I believe that Spike has done more to prove his love for Buffy and if she ever thought she could emotionally give herself to someone again, I think Spike would be a wise choice.
And … James Marsters is in fact, a hottie … 😉
Who should Buffy “end up” with, Spike or Angel?
Neither, thanks, at least not if the show wants to be true to its original concept: strong young women don’t need any man to complete them, make their sacrifices worthwhile, or bring greater meaning to their lives. Angel’s always going to be the love of her life, and Spike’s always going to be the obsession of her life, but she should end up with herself. We all do anyway, one way or the other.
(Besides, my money’s on Spike finally moving into the great Dustbuster in the Sky the way he should have at some point in Season 4…. They cuddled, people: he’s a gonner.)
Having thus preached, I think it would be kewl if good old Pike came in to town at the end and they rode off on his bike together into the sunrise, with no promises needing to be made. 🙂
Actually Heather, that was something my wife and I debated about right after the climax of Season 6.
Did Spike want his soul back, to be human again, or just the chip out of his head?
“Make me like I was before.” The line leaves the demon wish-granter TONS of leeway to screw around with Spike. Considering his attitude going into the trip to Africa to see the demon it seemed like he just wanted the chip out, although his inner turmoil (boiling over at that point) points to wanting a soul ;like Angel; so he can get Buffy to love him.
Going into the scene I KNEW that’s what the demon was going to do to him (no spoilers involved, I just felt it)…
Another weird Buffy thought that’ll never be answered, if Buffy had made it into her 30’s (well, actually Faith, since after dying at the end of Season 5, no new slayer was called [that anyone know of]), could another slayer be activated, based on the whole “One girl in each generation”-thing…
Ken, are you saying you think that Spike went to the Demon to get the chip out and got his soul back by mistake?
Interesting inquirey about the new slayer per generation detail.
PAD’s right, a certain amount of storytelling license is required to swallow various plot points…
The medium usually dictates how something plays out. A nurse doesn’t say “sure thing, Doctor Smith” because that would necessiate the show to pay the extra for those lines of dialogue. Instead, she just nods. The camera doesn’t follow Xander when he has to take a wicked dump because that’s a waste of screen time, not to mention it’d look grossly unsuitable according to the normal tv-watching public.
A number of nitpicks for any show can be written off by dramatic license.
Still, there’s something to be said for writers sweating the small stuff, as George Grattan wrote.
eddie
Yep, I think he had had it and was ready to give up on Buffy at that point, he realized he wasn’t worthy of her and couldn’t stand being a “good guy” after he tried to rape her, he wanted to bad again, when he didn’t have to care about the consequences of his actions. The chip’s removal was what he wanted.
But I think he’s happier now the way things turned out. He was a pretty sappy bloody-awful poet in life. And it looks like in life he’d never known love, so he really had no frame of reference when Dru turned him…
**Who should Buffy “end up” with, Spike or Angel?
Neither, thanks, at least not if the show wants to be true to its original concept: strong young women don’t need any man to complete them, make their sacrifices worthwhile, or bring greater meaning to their lives. Angel’s always going to be the love of her life, and Spike’s always going to be the obsession of her life, but she should end up with herself. We all do anyway, one way or the other.
(Besides, my money’s on Spike finally moving into the great Dustbuster in the Sky the way he should have at some point in Season 4…. They cuddled, people: he’s a gonner.)
Having thus preached, I think it would be kewl if good old Pike came in to town at the end and they rode off on his bike together into the sunrise, with no promises needing to be made. :-)**
Gotta disagree with your logic. Being in a relationship doesn’t make anyone less independent or strong. I fail to see how having a boyfriend/lover/husband would be untrue to the series original premise.
This sounds like the old argument that a woman can have a career or a family but not both.
I think that it would be pretty depressing if Buffy was going to live out her life alone.
But better than Pike, how about she looks at Xander and says, “Okay, you’ve waited long enough.”? 🙂
Angel would do anything to protect Buffy. Spike would do anything to love her. Speaking as a strong woman in this world, I prefer the second.
Should Buffy end up with Spike or Angel?
I would say neither… and do both of them a favor. 🙂
Peter, yes, I love smirking my ášš off about most people not getting the scythe/Fray reference. God, I love Fray. Too bad #7 took a WHOLE ÐÃMN YEAR to come out. But hey, comic people. What can you do? 🙂
Anyone else notice Kennedy had a pierced tongue? If Willow’s eyes had mouths, they would have been drooling.
I still can’t stand her, though. I miss Tara. Mmm…Tara…
Ðámņ you, Joss…
I am so with you Queen Anthai about little miss tounge bolt. Geez that nasty! But on a lighter note “Buffy” was perfect.
who cares about FRAY- it’s not in the Buffy tv series(maybe yet) but no one loses out other than the relation betwen Joss’ stories. PLUS+ that scythe thing looks totally cheap and plastic looking from the view that we got. Maybe they’ll make it look better next ep. like the Ubervamp did.
why does mutant enemy or members of the cast notlike sarah michelle gellar?
Posted by James Lynch @ 05/07/2003 09:55 AM ET
\\For a really fun way to celebrate the end of the show, check out the June 2003 issue of FHM. “The Girls of Buffy” tribute has both some very nice photos and good articles. (Anyone know why there are no pics of the Drusilla actress?)
And I defy any bi- or heterosexual male, or gay or bisexual female, to peruse the pictorial of Charisma Carpenter and not buy this issue immediately! Yow!!!\\
Yeah, but the pictures of Charisma Carpenter in the mag are about five years old and are reprinted from her appearance in the mag while she was still on Buffy.
why does mutant enemy or members of the cast notlike sarah michelle gellar?
I’ll respond to this because I’ve mentioned this in the past.
First, I don’t know that ME or the other actors don’t like SMG. But there are things you can pick up, some subtle, some not so subtle, if you follow the backstage gossip in places like “Entertainment Weekly” or E! On-line.
When a show is winding down after a successful run, there seems to be a collective feeling that it’s time to leave the stage, so to speak. You saw it with “Seinfeld” and “The X-Files” and a lot of other long-running shows. But with “Buffy”, it seemed like everyone was willing to keep it going a little longer. When SMG decided to leave, she essentially took the jobs away from a number of people. Unlike a show like “X-Files” where you can replace even a lead character and continue calling the show the same thing and continue the premise, you can’t really replace Buffy.
I also heard that SMG didn’t even show up for the series wrap party. The lead actress shouldn’t miss the season wrap party let alone the series wrap.
There were a lot of quotes from the other actors and I didn’t see one about missing SMG.
Now I should also point out that I’m not one of these fans who thinks that an actor or actress “owes” their fans to stay with a show. I’ll miss the show but I don’t know SMG and don’t really feel one way or the other about what she does with her career. So I’m not trying to take a personal swipe at her.
But I think the decision to leave the show and pursue a film career has generated a reaction… and like any decision, some people will agree with it and others won’t.
I just saw end of days part 1 and you could tell joss was back its easily the best episode of the season so far.
Several things:
1) What about the wanna-bes’ parents?
What about them? Every year THOUSANDS of children disappear and more than a few of them are teenage girls. Sure I imagine their parents are freaked but so are thousands of other sets of parents whose kids aren’t off trying to save the world.
2) Kennedy
People hate Kennedy for one reason: She’s not Tara. Same things happened to Robin II, who come to think of it also got blown up. Hmm.
3) Pacing
Season 2 worked so well because it was composed of two related 11 episode arcs. The recent seasons have been slow paced because an 11 episode story has been played out over 22 episodes.
4) Guns
The main reason why we don’t see them on BtVS is probably because it’s still a show about and aimed at teenagers. No one wants to be putting guns in teenagers hands right now. A few years without any gun incidents in our schools and maybe you could get away with it on TV. Angel’s a different situation and thus Wesley the gunslinger (what the hëll was up with that dive roll, cool, but still…) is allowed and against Skip even effective.
MJA
I have a news! I heard a rumor..that can be true!from a newsboard in my school. So..heres the news:I heard that Joss Whedon is planing on making a Angel & Buffy movie, also I think a spin-off, Spike. Now if all thats true..it’s life for us, and also I think they’re thinking of re-peating the whole series of Buffy on Star-World. Ooh! Thats the life, if thats true..I finally get to see S1-2-3 Of Buffy!