One would think that with a message thread of over five hundred entries, I would have responded to every aspect of a topic imaginable. (Not that responses really matter to the hit and runners who come in with their minds made up, don’t read the thread, hurl invective and boycotts and then split.) But in cruising around the blogosophere that currently portrays me as being so poisonous that a tarantula could bite me and die, there is apparently one aspect that I have yet to address.
It has been wondered in several places whether I concur with the concept that is popularly referred to as “Byrne Stealing.” Namely, John Byrne’s philosophy that reading through a book on the stands and then putting it back is basically theft. Was I, in letting Marvel know about a potential copyright violation, saying that Byrne was right?
Well…hypothetically, he is. In the hypothetical comic shop that he owns (let’s call it Byrne’s Book Store, or Byrne’s BS for short) he is absolutely correct. The books are his physical property. Absent any state or federal laws that prohibit browsing, he gets to decide what does and does not constitute abuse of his property. If you’re willingly dealing with Byrne’s BS, then you don’t get to just stand around in Byrne’s BS, inspecting and fondling comics and reading them while munching on a corn dog, with a big Byrne BS-eating grin on your face. And if he yells at you about it, you can certainly storm out and announce that you are never going to stick your head into Byrne’s BS again. But don’t kid a kidder: It was Byrne, and you knew what sort of BS you were going to be dealing with when you walked in.
However—and here’s the sticky part—Byrne doesn’t get to decide what’s best for other people’s property. Just his own.
Many is the time that I’ve walked into my local Borders and seen people relaxing on couches or in the café, reading books or magazines that they have yet to purchase. They treat the place like a library. They sit there and read books (not mine, of course, because, y’know, who stocks those?) and apparently feel under no obligation to buy them. And if John Byrne waltzed into that store and started accusing them of theft, then the store manager and clerks would have him thrown out.
Why? It’s their store. They get to decide. Again, absent state and federal laws, they set the terms of right and wrong. They have big old magnetic strip detectors set up at the front door to stop you from walking out without paying for a book, but if you sit there, read an entire issue of Final Crisis #7 (presumably without spilling coffee on it or doing a spit-take on it or in some way rendering it unsalable) and put it back, Borders has effectively decided that that’s permissible.
Which they can do.
Because it’s their property and they get to decide what to do with it and what constitutes fair use of it.
So in Borders, reading Final Crisis #7 and putting it back isn’t stealing, Byrne- or otherwise.
Because. It’s their. Property.
Now…here’s where it gets entertaining.
The people who are running around cursing my name and crying boycott and writing my wife threatening e-mails (because she had so much to do with S-D being shut down)—the very same people who would not hesitate to download the latest virus protection software to prevent someone from helping themselves to whatever is on their own computer—are perfectly sanguine with deciding what Marvel should and should not do with Marvel’s property. The images, the characters, the stories…those are all Marvel’s. Legally. Morally. In every way that human beings have to measure such things, it’s Marvel’s property. Granted, the comic book itself is the fan’s property once it has been purchased. Which entitles them to give the physical comic to as many friends as they want to loan it out to, or even resell it if they’re so inclined. It does not, however, give them the right to reproduce it and redistribute it—which is what putting it out onto the net basically is–because there are specific laws that say they can’t do that. For that matter, there are specific rules on Live Journal that say they can’t do that, and Live Journal gets to make their own determinations of how best to handle their own property.
Some people are claiming that Marvel and DC and other major publishers should embrace the concept of having anybody, anytime, do whatever the hëll they want with the publishers’ property because the fans have decided that it’s going to be beneficial to the publishers. The demise of Scans is—I’ve seen this term a lot—killing the golden goose. (Considering that sales have been in a steady decline for the duration of Scans’ existence, I have to observe that golden geese aren’t what they used to be. It seems less a golden goose than golden goose pate.) These fans have judged, on the publishers’ behalf, how the publishers’ property should be disseminated and distributed and marketed. And if the publishers don’t agree with it, then they are somehow uncool or evil or, at the very least, not current with the 21st Century.
Are you following that? These fans are deciding on behalf of the publishers the best way to handle the publishers’ property. It’s not enough that they believe they know the best way to handle their own property (locks on the front door, LoJacks on their cars, virus protection on their computers, etc.) They believe that they have the self-declared right to decide what is right and wrong for the publishers’ property. They believe that their vision of what constitutes theft should supersede that of whose property it truly is.
Just as John Byrne apparently believes that his vision should supersede the opinions of the book store owners whose property the books and magazines are.
So basically…every single fan who is excoriating me and condemning me and boycotting me for slights either real or imagined…
… is buying into Byrne’s BS.
Perhaps some fans should consider boycotting themselves.
PAD
• 
I thought your website was under attack. I kept getting malware error things popping up when I clicked on my bookmark. I read Comicmix and found this new site, but I wonder how many people knew of the move and how long it will take the usual gang to find you again.
Well, typing http://www.peterdavid.net should get you straight here, so hopefully it won’t take too long.
PAD
Nice redesign, though all those buttons on the bottom had me confused for a while. I couldn’t find the simple comments option. Then I realized it was up at the top, near the subject line. This seems counter intuitive. The comments button should be at the bottom, so you don’t have to scroll back up after you’ve finished reading the post.
Just a suggestion. But, you know, it’s a good one.
You see, you could have done a post about the color of daffodils, or the start of March, but ya just keep pokin’ at that hornet nest.
I believe you just did a post a couple days back where you made the comment that when one touches a hot stove and experience extreme sensory input, the natural reaction is to avoid said action again.
There you go folks – incontrovertible proof the Peter David is not natural.
Another thing I found interesting is that a post about comics books, and “right” to access of scans got almost three times as many comments than a post about racism.
I *think* that’s progress.
Topic’s not going away anytime soon, Vinnie. The hornet’s nest doesn’t need any poking; judging by my email box, they’re swarming just fine whether I say anything or not.
PAD
Oh, my goodness, have I ever occasionally gotten an earful on the Byrne board in discussions about this topic, when I mention that my comic store’s owner has specifically extended to me (and a select handful of other regular customers) the privilege of reading a book cover-to-cover as long as we don’t abuse it. I’ve been called a “thief” for this.
When I then point out that, since this privilege was extended to me around 1995, I’ve exercised it exactly twice, I’m called a liar. Even though I can still point out exactly which two books they were: Once for Liefeld’s Captain America #1, just out of morbid curiosity, and once for Thunderbolts #1 because “Heroes Reborn” led me to drop all Marvel books but Hulk, but I’d heard good things about T-bolts. The first instance led to me putting the book back on the shelf, the second led to me adding the title to my pull list.
I’m sure the Scans supporters will add another name to that list: “hypocrite,” attempting to tell me that I’ve done with those to actual, physical books far worse than they’ve done with their “partial” posts. The difference, of course, being exactly as you’ve spelled out in your post.
Not that I expect many of them to acknowledge the difference.
There’s a scene I remember well from the tv series “The Shield”. (Bear with me, it’s sort of related.)
The police are doing their job on the street, and asking for eye witnesses to come forward after an incident.
One lady does come forward as a witness, only to be met with cries and invective from youths on the street shouting “Don’t be no snitch!” etc… As you can imagine, there’s some amount of swearing too.
The scanners and the hit and run posters, remind me of those youths. They are essentially protesting against someone who is obeying the law, and acting as a good citizen, because it deprives them of the benefit of law-breaking.
At this point, it’s not about who’s right and who’s wrong. It’s about their side losing their benefits, and feeling aggrieved, even though their benefits were obtained illegally.
The ones who go so far as to send hate mail and death-threats, whether to Peter or his wife, are just the same sort of low-life scum.
“Well, typing http://www.peterdavid.net should get you straight here, so hopefully it won’t take too long.
PAD”
Actually, my bookmark for http://www.peterdavid.net kept sending me to a GoDaddy.com page saying that peterdavid.net was available–or at least, it did up until about 10 PM last night (before I left for work). Seems to work fine now, though.
With the fancy new window dressing of blue-washed book covers, I assume that this change was in the works for a while? It looks quite nifty.
Chuck
The new look is indeed spiffy, and – believe it or not – I got a big grin on my face seeing the original, paperback cover for Knight Life in the mix.
But you tattled! Wah!
Peter David: If you’re willingly dealing with Byrne’s BS, then you don’t get to just stand around in Byrne’s BS, inspecting and fondling comics and reading them while munching on a corn dog, with a big Byrne BS-eating grin on your face. And if he yells at you about it, you can certainly storm out and announce that you are never going to stick your head into Byrne’s BS again. But don’t kid a kidder: It was Byrne, and you knew what sort of BS you were going to be dealing with when you walked in.
Luigi Novi: LOL.
My main “problem” with the new design is I think the column in which the text is located is a bit too narrow.
The screen looks good/right on an 800×600 window, but that’s rapidly losing its place as the standard screen one must design for. On a 1024 screen, the column looks tiny, on a larger screen it’s positively lost in an ocean of covers.
In can understand wanting to make sure the background is visible (or what’s a background for) but a dynamic column width based on percentage or with set left and right margins might work better.
Hmmm. Column where Peter defends himself for not doing what he said he didn’t do – 510 comments. Column where he suggests that the people complaining might need to examine themselves and also squeezes in a jest or two at John Byrne’s expense, 10 comments, most of them about the new site design. Rage on the internet is like John Hobbes’ definition of life – nasty, brutish and short.
I like the look of the new site, but I wish the text area wasn’t so narrow. It’s a thin column of text.
http://peterdavid.malibulist.com/index.html currently leads to an empty page with some random code.
Wait, they’re actually emailing Kathleen?
What the WHAT?
Urgh.
People. People. How do you actually wake up in the morning, decide to do this and not realize how horrible and wrong it is?
All right, I’m gonna mention it here. My podcast has started a Do Not Be A Douchebag On the Internet Campaign (or DNBADOTIC, since that’s much easier to say). If you click the link in my name, there’s a lovely icon up for grabs.
Because manners shouldn’t have to stop at the keyboard.
Give people time. The news was just posted on S_D that he posted this and that it was him talking about “us” again. MOst people are at work and such.
Frankly, why would you want readers who send death threats and such over this flap? Death threats is beyond the pale and I wouldn’t want them reading anything I did.
The mind boggles.
To everyone who emailed Peter Davids wife, you have feeling me deeply ashamed for merely being an internet fanboy who has browsed scans daily.
Why do you think it took so long for scans_daily to be shut down?
When I think about it, it seems odd that a public community with thousands of watchers was never reported to DC or Marvel before this. You saw something illegal and reported it to Marvel. That’s a very logical and rational course of action, and yet, it would seem that no one ever bothered before.
Comics is a difficult hobby to just stumble into. An online community like scans_daily often helped people acclimate to the medium, the hobby and the industry. I think where comics companies have a problem is failing to effectively market their products to new customers.
If I pick up a Batman or an X-Men comic for the first time, am I going to understand what’s going on with twenty-or-so years of continuity of which I’m ignorant? Maybe, but maybe not. I think a place like scans_daily kind of filled that knowledge gap, whatever its legality.
Au contraire, I view bookstore reading as a trial period. If I enjoy it, I will certainly buy it. Think of it as purchasing a laptop: you use it, but if something is wrong you can return it for another item or your money back. What are buyers to do with a book that fails them? If the pages are loose or the letters smudge it’s one thing, but why would we not be allowed to return a book that is terrible? Buyers use then return all manner of finely working items all the time because of whatever dissatisfaction, after all. Why would the time spent in Borders be different?
Yeah, anyone emailing Kathleen with abusive snark deserves to have their names prominently displayed (though I’ll bet few of them have the guts to use their real names, a telling clue as to their true motivations and personal qualities).
The Byrne B.S. stuff was funny.
Places like Borders and my all time favorite bookstore, The Tattered Cover in Denver do give one reason to think that something like S_D could be useful to the comic book companies. I’ve spent far far more in stores that let me–encourage me!–to browse than in ones that enforce the “hey pal, this ain’t a library.” rules. The S_D fans could be correct that the site was doing more good than harm. It’s just that this isn’t their call to make and attacking PAD (not to mention his wife! Jesus! What’s wrong with some people?) certainly doesn’t make a good case for that argument.
PAD, I’m from Jersey (exit 13) and as a former Jersey boy, I’m sure you know a guy who knows a guy. Maybe those mooks who mail your wife – your wife!!!- need to be reminded that there are guys who know guys.
I’m using Firefox to view the page, and the width of the text is about half the screen. It’s the perfect width for reading. Text that is too wide or too narrow is hard to read.
Mr Tyron, how does this reply give you – and this website – a higher moral ground than the people Mr David’s post (rightly) complains about?
Insert illegally posted youtube clip of Buck Henry’s speech about what Mrs Moretto’s husband can have done to Casey Affleck’s character’s genetalia with one phone call here.
Byrne’s BS…
😀
Bill Mulligan, I don’t think that the reading policies of those stores really say much about the benefits of Scans Daily.
Going to a store takes more effort than going to website. If someone does have the urge to buy the comic, the cash register is right there, as opposed to having to get up and go make the trip. People who go in stores are more likely to buy something than people who just walk down the street and look in windows. Neither is a guarantee, but one is more likely than the other. So giving reading permission to the ones who are most likely to pay is a better bet than giving permission to everyone.
At the store the customer knows he can’t take the comic with him and it might not be there when he comes back. On the internet, if you have access to it now, that’s pretty much as good as owning it.
At small comic book stores especially, the customer can usually turn around and see the guy behind the counter. The person giving him permission to read the comic feels like a real person and not just a name.
It’s like PAD said, there’s a difference between loaning and redistributing. If a comic book shop owner lets someone read a comic, he’s taking a chance that they won’t buy a single issue that they otherwise would have. He bought that issue, he can take that chance. If a website posts something, they’re pretty much giving it away, not loaning it, and taking the chance that a whole bunch of people will never buy the comic. The website didn’t pay anything to take that risk and it affects a lot more people.
For what it’s worth, assessing the importance of scans_daily is difficult because of the lack of information, and also because other market factors affect the sales of comics. For example, the decline in comics is also related to the rise of video games, manga/anime, and the internet as entertainment.
Or to put it another way, without scans_daily it’s possible that X-Factor 39 might have sold 28,000 copies rather than 32,000 copies last month. If video games didn’t exist, X-Factor 39 might have sold 100,000 copies. There are a lot of factors involved, and just saying “Comics declined the last 5 years, so scans_daily can’t have helped” doesn’t really work.
Darn it. My comment looks more infammatory than anything. Geez. Sorry about that as I should’ve re-read it before posting to see if actually contributed anything positive instead of negative in tone. Please feel free to delete it as it doesn’t contribute anything to the topic at hand while I go smack myself for being stupid.
Really, I think all should just let it go. What is done is done. I am more interested now in the change of format here. It is very different. Not sure if it easier or harder yet to read. Will it effect the feed format as that is normally how I keep up to date?
If you’re so upset about it, why make multiple posts? You knew doing what you did you’d be vilified, there’s no way you didn’t know. So now you’re trying desperately to hoist yourself up on that cross in hopes some brown nosers will weep at your feet, but no one cares. You did a dickish thing. That’s the end result.
SnB-
As I understand it, it should not. But I am still a little fuzzy about what was done to the site.
Kath
Jason–good points. I don’t know if S_B did more good, more harm, or did nothing at all. I know that PAD did nothing wrong. I know that at least some of the S_B members have their hearts in the right place. I know that access to free music CAN lead to you buying music you would not otherwise have bought. I also know that the collapse of the music Cd and the ability to download music are connected. I have little doubt that the death of newspapers is probably linked to the internet making them superfluous. I also think that the rising prices of comics is not something that can be easily fixed and will most likely lead to their demise, sorry to say.
There are so many factors at play here and it’s a shame that we are fighting when we should all be trying to keep this medium alive.
Great stuff, PAD. Will probably go right over the head of some, and be completely misinterpreted by others, but excellent work nonetheless. 😀
Spot on Peter, I don’t understand how people expect things to be free, yet for there to still be a product.
The only thing that confuses me here is the note that in Borders you can relax and read comics and books before you buy them. Although overall that is true, I find it somewhat amusing to note that of all the aisles in the Borders nearest me, it’s the “Superheroes” aisle that is singled out with a sign that says “Do Not Sit.” And yet, they leave benches in the magazine section.
Alright, deep breath. Let’s all step away from the “fandom bìŧçhëš” (official term, I didn’t make it up) and the 15-year-olds touting their God-given right to steal music on the Internet and focus on the adults. 🙂
There were a healthy number of the afore-mentioned “fandom bìŧçhëš” and trolls in the 2,000+(?) members of the community, but, given the limits, I don’t really think the mods or even the majority of members were there for ZOMG free books! I know I sure wasn’t. If the limits weren’t enough for some creators (i.e. if there were spoilers), and if mods were asked to tone things down, posts got pulled.
That said, there *were* creators there – big names and nobodies from both Marvel and DC and many indie presses. Given the implicit consent from the copyright holders themselves who were active members and commenters on the community (and who even posted their own stuff) as well as the community’s near-draconian rules over how much could be posted, I really think the mods thought they were in the right. (I’m not here to argue whether they were or not – I’m just saying, that’s what they thought. It was a public community, not some shady torrent sharing service.)
Sure, there’s gonna be bile from the 10 or 20 pathetic jerks who get off on sticking it to someone on the Internet, but the real hurt for us milder fans comes from what’s in the paragraph above. I’m not a mod, and I was fairly new to the community, but the whole thing feels a bit like being stabbed in the back.
My advice on the áššhølëš though is, man, when you get those nasty comments, just delete that crap unread. Better to spend that time writing. And send the scary ones to the cops. Most of them are probably thirteen year-olds, but you never know. Even if they are thirteen year-olds, they probably need the lesson in How To Behave On The Internet.
“The demise of Scans is—I’ve seen this term a lot—killing the golden goose. (Considering that sales have been in a steady decline for the duration of Scans’ existence, I have to observe that golden geese aren’t what they used to be.”
I’m with Thok on this one. Attributing the decline of sales mainly to scans (and by implication, s_d) seems to simplify the situation in a black-and-white manner. I’m sure there are other factors that contributed to the decline of sales, such as poor marketing.
But if the decline of sales is correctly identified (which would be rather hard to prove) to s_d, I have to wonder if that will be end of the problem. Aren’t there a lot of comic book forums and message boards that discuss spoilers or post up scans/download links as well?
If this problem (hypothetically defined as the decline of sales mainly attributed to scans, and if such is the case, it is serious indeed) is to be tackled, then why not give the forums and message boards similar treatment? Leaving the traditional forums and message boards alone while shutting down s_d seems to be of double standards. In the long term, punishing scapegoats doesn’t do anything to solve the core of the problem that still exists.
As for my part, I think Bradley analyzed the situation pretty well and gives us food for thought:
“In the end, it seems to me that this argument points out a fundamental difference in the way that people view the Internet. On the one hand, you have people (I imagine over the age of 35, in most cases, but I could be wrong) who keep a cautious eye on the ‘new medium,’ concerned (and rightly so) with how this technology might be used to hurt people or damage their livelihoods– I think these people tend to view the Internet as a useful tool, something that supplements more traditional modes of communication. Then, you have other (sgain, I’m guessing younger) people, who have come to view the web as their primary mode of communication– for these people, social networking sites and online community forums have (almost) always been there, and the friends they’ve made in these places are as ‘real’ as the friends who comprised the comic book club that used to meet after school when I was in the 7th grade. So they use this forum to discuss and share comics, just as we did back in the 7th grade– not in an attempt to get stuff for free or screw creators, but because, you know, discussing and sharing comics is one of the joys of this hobby. And this is the medium they use for discussion.
“I think, in the end, Gail Simone is right– that a sensible compromise can be reached. But it probably won’t happen until people on both sides stop saying, ‘It’s just this simple’ and following that statement with a reductive argument that doesn’t really acknowledge the ethical and artistic complexities that arise when people start using new technology to communicate with each other.”
Is it possible the “Do Not Sit” sign refers to sitting on the floor? Because I’ve actually seen, not that sign, but that phenomenon in my local Borders. For some reason, in the comics trade section, I routinely see customers sitting cross legged on the floor in front of the trades, flipping through them. Never anywhere else. They just sit on the floor in the graphic novels section. And of course that’s a rather dumb thing for them to be doing because it blocks the aisles, it makes it difficult for other people to get near the books and, oh, by the way, there’s some benches, couches and the cafe within about twenty paces.
PAD
Pete, like I said in the other one, I’m more worried about you and the family than about those halfwit posters who have sent you and Kathleen nastygrams.
Look, I know we’ve never met in person, but you look enough like me to be my brother, and I feel a degree of concern and responsibility for you. I care. And this mess will blow over soon enough. I’m far more worried about you.
So, as stated elsewhere, you’ve got my email. Write me and let me know you’re weathering this. And give Kathleen a hug from me and the wife. Family needs to support each other, and you have ours.
Miles
I don’t know whether Scans Daily or its ilk lead to more sales or fewer sales. But I do agree that it’s Marvel’s (or DC’s or whoever owns the copyright) call to make. If Marvel doesn’t want scans of their comics going on line, then you can come in with all sorts of regression analyses about how every comic posted to Scans Daily increases sales by 0.01347 copies and it doesn’t matter because Marvel is not obliged to distribute copies if it doesn’t want to.
That said, Marvel would also be wise to understand that scanned comics are a bit like Hydra — cut off one limb and two more will take its place. There is enough of a demand out there for scanned comics, and enough contempt for IP laws among the general public, that scans will be distributed. The trick for Marvel is to figure out a way to see that scans get distributed on Marvel’s terms. I would guess that within the next year or so, we’ll see all of Marvel’s comics online for a nominal fee — pay a dime and download the latest issue of X-Factor, which will stay on your computer for 24 hours. Pay a buck and the issue will stay on your computer for as long as you want. Pay $15 bucks a month and read as much as you want with no extra charge. That sort of thing. I believe Marvel is already doing some of that, or at least they experimented with it; other publishers seem further behind the curve.
The saddest part is that Scans_Daily was the only place that encouraged me to pick and buy new good comics that weren’t previewed in “serious” comic sites. Fûçkërš. Now I’ll have to buy less and less comics. T____T
Speaking as a small press creator who’s just trying to survive, I don’t really give a dámņ about your X-Factor spoilers or your Big Two copyright laws. Seems like it never helps the small guy and always hurts. Like, for example, right now.
What you are absolutely not understanding was that the community was not about you, that it was not about the Big Two, it was not about copyright and theft. It was a community of people who loved comics. You helped smash it, and, most importantly, you seem impervious to any insight into what you just did.
That’s the big deal right there. Everyone’s allowed to say stupid crap on the internet. It’s how you handle the aftermath that counts. And I can’t tell you how quickly I’ve gone from singing your praises to wishing that you would just go away and let the little guy try to survive.
I don’t care about Marvel. I don’t care about DC. They don’t pay me so I don’t care about them. I’m exactly as interested in them at scans_daily as I am interested in Marvel or DC at any given comic shop; they are there to bring people in so that maybe while they are there they will give me a chance too. I am realistic. This is the way it is right now.
You, essentially, help destroy one of my best shops. Even though I could not promote directly on scans_daily and did not make sales directly, because everything I had up there was absolutely FREE for the taking, because it’s the freaking INTERNET, you better believe that it helped a lot. I understood scans_daily, I was part of the community, they appreciated and supported my work. They helped my marketing, my technique, and my sales.
I’m sorry they weren’t your golden goose; possibly it was because you didn’t spend enough time looking at it to figure out which end the eggs come out of. Believe me, they were a golden goose for me.
You broke it. You don’t care. You don’t see a problem. I seriously do not appreciate it.
Hiding behind the law is ludicrous from this point of view. I saw a great bit of graffiti on the way to the coffee shop today; it made me think of you.
“Justice is like a snake. It only bites the barefooted.”
I will continue trying to survive in this industry, I don’t need your help or ask your permission.
Now, I’m going to go draw, because being angry on the internet doesn’t pay my rent. Drawing comics does.
Mr. David, this isn’t comics. This isn’t making comics, selling comics, or reading comics. It does nothing for the industry or the art form. This is a colossal waste of time. Every bit of it would have been better if it had never happened. I’m going to go draw. I don’t plan to trouble you again.
I think, in the end, Gail Simone is right– that a sensible compromise can be reached.
Well, which compromise would you suggest?
The compromise in which scans of nearly a third of the book are made available in advance so people can get a feel for what the book is going to be like? Marvel and DC already do that on a regular basis.
The compromise that reviewers can write reviews and illustrate them with a few pages or panels as a means of providing critical review or commentary? That’s called fair use. Allow me to provide an example: If someone on Scans had done a posting called, “Top 5 most screwed up things ever done to babies in comics” and pulled a key page from X-Factor #39 (you know the one I’m talking about) and run it as part of that posting…it never even would have occurred to me to contact Marvel.
The mechanisms to provide people an idea of what’s in a book already exist. Certainly far more than they did years ago.
PAD
Yeah, the “No Sitting” policy is if you sit on the floor. I’ve been sitting there sometimes, looking through the bottom row of the shelf, while at the same time there’s a whole bunch of people reading the manga section in the floor and I’ve been asked to not block the aisles. They don’t actually tell you anything if you sit down in one of the benches or the couches.
I was gonna say, yes, the “do not sit” signs refer to plopping yourself down right there in the aisle (which, in addition to being a pain in the ášš for browsers, is also a fire hazard). Which, I don’t know why anyone would when Borders has those big comfy chairs. B&N have phased them out, but still have the cafe and areas with ordinary chairs (and, at least here in New York, people still also find out-of-the-way spots, like the windowsills in the Union Square store, to sit and read as well).
PAD,
I don’t find that I get treated poorly for reading comics at Borders, just merely amused that the “Superheroes” aisle is the only one singled out with that sign. And as far as people blocking the aisle, it still happens just as often, only now with people kneeling in the aisle and subsequently complaining about the discomfort. Which of course means a lot of people complaining about the actions and rules of other people, with no one really acknowledging that they are only perpetuating an easily solvable (and I find, rather silly) problem. But then, I’m only an observer to this phenomenon, I buy all my comics at a locally owned store, never spend more than 5 minutes thumbing through issues not on my pulls list, and on average spend only about $15 on comics (which, apparently means that I’m out of control with my money. Hrumph.)
What you are absolutely not understanding was that the community was not about you, that it was not about the Big Two, it was not about copyright and theft
I agree with the first and I agree about the second. As for the third, well, if that were true, then Live Journal wouldn’t have buried them. Because if the speculation is to be believed, Live Journal seems to be under the impression that it WAS about copyright and it WAS about theft. The reason I believe this is that in their TOS, I’m not mentioned and the big two aren’t mentioned.
The small guy?
Let’s review: For the sake of discussion, let’s say that the perceived chain of events is to be believed. We’ve got two corporations, each of them endeavoring to protect their property. These are the big guys.
So who are the fans screaming at?
The freelance writer and his wife.
The funny thing is, you’re saying it’s not about them, and it’s not about me. What it’s about…is you.
You care about your property and making a living at it with just as much fervor as Marvel and DC and, for that matter, Live Journal. So basically your righteous indignation would be more impressive if it wasn’t so self-serving. To say nothing of the fact that you can take your small press material and have it displayed all you want on the brand new iteration of Scans.
That’s your right. Because it’s your property. And I have absolutely no wish to interfere with how you choose to protect or not protect your copyright and your property. It’s just a bit sad that you, on the other hand, would begrudge others that same right simply because you figure that, as a “little guy,” you’re entitled and they’re not.
If you were really concerned about protecting your livelihood, then rather than sit around for five years with your fingers crossed, you might have wanted to actively petition the mods and say, “You know what? The LJ terms of service say that people posting this stuff shouldn’t be doing it. It’s pretty explicit, and sooner or later we’re going to get shut down, so for God’s sake, make them stop doing it.”
But you didn’t do that. You took no action that could have saved Scans. Because in the end…you felt it wasn’t your problem.
And now it is.
PAD
I specifically read through the previous post just to see where all this was going and purposefully only spoke to people misrepresenting what S_D was about and even that defence admits we were in a legal dark grey area, and no not with malicious intent. I don’t think people sat at home cackling as they scanned up recent comics and prepared them for post (barring ‘context is for the weak’, one panel images).
I recognize the pressure and nastiness of some of the comments you are receiving is probably a factor here but from all I have followed so far I have not yet reached a forum with Byrne commenting regarding S_D specifically. Even if he has his stance represented in the thinly veiled backhanded analogy in your comments is horribly rude and exactly the kind of thing you are trying to denounce on our parts. I’m certain the bookstore analogy could have worked perfectly fine without namedropping another author needlessly.
I feel badly for you and your wife’s inboxes but while hard to do, standing up as the good guy leaves you on firmer ground if you can avoid the petty barbs and it would get you left alone on this faster.
You know, I think you’re leaving money on the table.
In the tradition of the MARK WAID IS EVIL t-shirts, I suggest you set up a cafe press site selling T-shirts reading
PETER
DAVID
HATES
COMICS
But do it quickly, before the internet’s rage subsides. I made “It’s magic – we don’t have to explain it” shirts and sold all of 20 of the dámņ things, and that was AFTER the plug on Newsarama.
I don’t find that I get treated poorly for reading comics at Borders, just merely amused that the “Superheroes” aisle is the only one singled out with that sign. And as far as people blocking the aisle, it still happens just as often, only now with people kneeling in the aisle and subsequently complaining about the discomfort.
That is hilarious. It says “Don’t sit” and so they kneel, and then complain about it besides.
I suppose the smart thing to do would have been to put up a sign that read, “Please Don’t Block the Aisles.” That way the intent is clear, rather than people figuring it’s okay if they block the aisles as long as they’re doing it in a crouch or something. They might want to add “Please Don’t Eat the Daisies” while they’re at it.
PAD