Newly minted AG Eric Holder, in a speech that must have had his boss banging his head against a wall in the White House residence, declared:
“Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards.” He went on to say, “Though race-related issues continue to occupy a significant portion of our political discussion, and though there remain many unresolved racial issues in this nation, we, average Americans, simply do not talk enough with each other about race.”
Oh, don’t “we?”
I was always under the impression that talk was cheap. Having a black president and a black attorney general, I would have thought, counts a good deal more than talking. To quote another cliche: Actions speak louder than words.
I would concede the notion that there is a certain, shall we say, tentativeness when it comes to discussing deeper issues of prejudice. However, I am moved to ask:
Whose fault is that?
I mean, what should we discuss? Racial epithets that whites can only refer to as “the N word” whereas blacks use the term routinely in rap songs? The word “ņìggárdlÿ,” the utterance of which in a private staff meeting resulted in a mayoral aide in Washington, D.C. being forced to resign? What about off-hand jokes by radio personalities that wind up getting them fired from their gig no matter how much they endeavor to apologize for it? How about rioters in LA who express their dissatisfaction with what they see as racism by smashing into local electronics stores and stealing televisions and air conditioners? How about everyone from the ubiquitous Al Sharpton–as big a racist as there ever was–to the National Association of Black Journalists (were there an Association of White Journalists, such an entity would be declared racist by its very existence) declaring that the only possible interpretation of a NY Post cartoon was one that had racist overtones?
The fact is that black leaders, black activists, black organizations, have made it clear that any slight, real or imagined, is cause for condemnation, retaliation, and media pillorying of the highest order. Under the current atmosphere, who would WANT to discuss racism? Well…Barack Obama did, back when he gave that superb speech about Rev. Wright. I don’t recall whites rioting over it. I don’t recall whites going on TV in droves and screaming for censure. My recollection is that it was a major turning point for white voters to assess Eric Holder’s future boss and deciding that they liked what they saw.
If you touch a hot stove, get burned, and say, “Whoa, I’m not touching that stove again,” is that an act of cowardice? Or is that just a reasoned response to an atmosphere created by many members of the very audience that Holder would presumably claim as his constituency? And by the way, not for nothing, but when did an attorney general become an “average American?”
PAD
• 
Holder should spend more time overseas, where the vast majority of countries are mostly white, or mostly asian, or mostly black, or mostly whatever, and the minorities rarely have much sway on politics, and often have litte or no voice at all — and they certainly do not hold senior leadership positions in their countries.
The U.S., for all of its flaws, is, by comparison, pretty dámņ open and pretty pluralistic.
When he’s running against Sarah Palin and the guy whose fiscal philosophy collapsed 6 weeks before the election and called his wife as c**t in front of reporters, voting for the black guy who doesn’t owe his success to any particular interest 4:3 doesn’t seem very brave at all. In fact, it seems to confirm Holder’s point.
Oh? Then how’d the “black guy” get past this party’s favorite, Hillary Clinton?
You can rationalize all day long and, like Holder, you’d still be wrong.
No matter how many time the boy cries wolf, it never means there’s no such thing as wolves . . .
The black guy beat Hillary because she demonstrated no leadership in her own campaign. She expected the people she hired to get her elected, and she even more stupidly pit them against each other. It was Mark Penn who assembled the “ready at 3 a.m.” commercials and Bill who finally approved them to actually establish a path in her own campaign. She was a joke.
It’s called Fox news, and you don’t like them either.
That press release isn’t on their website. Yeah, if they said that, and deleted the post, they should be held to that severely.
It’s called Fox news, and you don’t like them either.
Do you understand that’s it’s acceptable to say nothing, rather than say something stupid just for the sake of saying something?
PAD
Fox News commenters sincerely speculated that Michelle and Barack’s fist-bump was an al-Qaida signal. That’s the kind of people they hire. That speculation didn’t represent a black interest, and it didn’t represent an off-shore interest. It was Fox News going the extra mile into every permutation of white interest. If they think it represents a white-view somewhere in American, Fox News will labor to include it in their reports.
If anything, calling Fox News the National Association of White Journalist is grossly unfair to the NABJ, who only seek to preserve the integrity of black interest in a medium not dominated by black interest.
And you, keeping how wrong in your heart Holder is, didn’t just try to portray me as damaged for saying something I’m not even asking anyone to take my word for.
Race is more than just about black and white, although it’s convienent to think about it that way.
Being an Asian female, well, this article sums it up better than I can. This one too. And I live in Las Vegas, where there are endless escort and massage parlors advertising “beautiful Asian girls.”
From all appearances, white men automatically associate Asian women with sexual submissivness availability. But that’s not something anyone talks about, really, is it?
PAD: “I mean, what should we discuss? Racial epithets that whites can only refer to as ‘the N word’ whereas blacks use the term routinely in rap songs? The word “ņìggárdlÿ,” the utterance of which in a private staff meeting resulted in a mayoral aide in Washington, D.C. being forced to resign? What about off-hand jokes by radio personalities that wind up getting them fired from their gig no matter how much they endeavor to apologize for it? How about rioters in LA who express their dissatisfaction with what they see as racism by smashing into local electronics stores and stealing televisions and air conditioners?”
The LA Riots were almost 17 years ago, so I would presume that’s not what Holder was talking about. Maybe something more contemporary, like the Jena Six or the response to Hurricane Katrina, which are also far more significant issues than whether or not Don Imus has a job. I would take issue with the way Holder phrased his comments, but this seems unfairly belittling to real issues of prejudice that do deserve discussion.
PAD: “the National Association of Black Journalists (were there an Association of White Journalists, such an entity would be declared racist by its very existence)”
Again, agree or disagree with Holder, sure, but this seems more on the level of gripes like “Why isn’t there a White History Month?” or “Where’s the Straight Pride Parade?”
I would almost agree that the NY Post editorial cartoon wasn’t racist if the word Dog was not so prominently displayed above the chimp. Look at the sign, the top word should be “Beware” but as you can see the artist ran out of space, but he sure managed to fit the word “Dog” in such a way that it’s very noticeable. Now who in the past have been referred as dogs?
R-
“Now who in the past have been referred as dogs?”
Slow people are often referred to as “dogging it”
Ugly women are often called “dogs”
Pluto, Lassie and Rin Tin Tin are “dogs”
Anyone can and will find racism if they are bound and determined to find it, and those people should be ignored and shunned…
“From all appearances, white men automatically associate Asian women with sexual submissivness availability. But that’s not something anyone talks about, really, is it?”
I’m curious A.T., why didn’t you write (caps mine):
“From all appearances, MOST white men…”
or
“From all appearances, SOME white men…”
Why did you paint with a broad brush by simply saying “white men automatically associate …”
Brave words, PAD. You’re taking a big chance saying them. There are those whose only chance of making themselves feel better is to try to lower others–yelling “Racist!” is as easy a way as any and, at least for a while, worked.
But shame only works if the person you are trying to shame buys into the premise. The race card has been played so often that a person can pretty easily claim that they are being targeted unfairly and a lot of people will be willing to believe it. Of course, that gives genuine racists an out but that’s one of the consequences of overusing anything–the effect wears off.
It’s naive to think that Obama’s election will make a race baiter rethink their position. What would that leave them with. No, Obama’s election had to be a fluke or inevitable or he isn’t really black or it was just white guilt or it was just white people setting him up so they could tear him down or blah blah blah.
One other aspect of holder’s speech that deserves mention–it was insipid. If you are going to make a bold claim about the cowardice of Americans re race you really ought to follow it up with an example of what “courage” would look like. But does one expect courage from Holder?
Andy McCarthy has the best response to that. Why didn’t Holder bravely say something like the following to Bill Clinton when the subject of a pardon for someone on the most wanted list whose only positive attribute was the amount of his contributions to Clinton: “Mr. President, this is just wrong. You can’t sell a pardon to an international fugitive who defrauded the United States out of millions of dollars and traded with Iran while Khomeini was holding American hostages. I can’t be a part of this. I understand you don’t want to hear it, sir, but you need to know the evidence our Justice Department prosecutors have against this guy. And sure, I know his lawyer — our friend Jack Quinn — might get really angry at me and not help make me the next Attorney General. But you know, sometimes when you see something that is just so wrong, you have to have the courage to stand up and be counted. It’s like I told you a year ago while I was almost bitterly objecting and nearly thought about threatening to resign when we pardoned those FALN guys to help Hillary’s campaign in New York: Though this administration has proudly thought of itself as an ethical melting pot, in things corrupt we have always been and continue to be, in too many ways, essentially an administration of cowards.”
But Like PAD says, talk is cheap.
Actually “Bladestar” slaves were referred to as dogs, which is what I was talking about. Whether Jewish, Black or any other nationality for that matter; it was and probably still is a common name for human property.
I just found it suspect that the artist misspelled one word covered another all for the benefit of showing that one word over the dead chimp. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see the parallels. Sometime it really is racism.
R-
Richard J. Marcej: Because it’s too dámņ early in the morning and I’m living on adrenaline after two hours of sleep and being denied caffeine by my doctor.
Your nitpicking does not excuse people who assume that one cannot speak English because of how one looks. It does not excuse people who think you cannot possibly be an American because of how one looks.
It does not excuse:
“Where are you from?”
“Texas.”
“No, where are you really from?”
How would you like it if someone came up to you and said, “Oh, you’re so nice and so kind. It’s nice that you people can come to America and learn to speak English and have good manners … “
I’ve had that happen. More than once. This is why I own this bag.
As a Chinese-American I deal with those
assumptions and expecations quite often. I’m sure Hispanics also get this sort of treatment as well, deservingly or not. But we are overshadowed by the whole white/black dynamic.
So, I ask you, o snarky one, why aren’t we Asians and Hispanics viewed as true Americans, despite being born here and/or speaking perfectly good English?
From all appearances, white men automatically associate Asian women with sexual submissivness availability.
Seriously? Because I tend to automatically associate Asian women with the ability to kick ášš using martial arts. So I obviously missed a memo.
PAD
From all appearances, white men automatically associate Asian women with sexual submissivness availability.
I think someone’s been watching too much pørņ.
I thought the Holder’s statement was absurd. We talk about race all_the_time in this country. Way more than most of the world does, I think. The US strikes me as one of the few places in the world where racism is considered a shameful problem rather than the status quo.
Wait a minute.
Where the hëll am I being snarky?
I simply asked you a straightforward question. Why did you paint with a broad brush?
Where did I write any thing to slight ANYONE? Asian, Hispanic, Black, White….
Where?
You say I’m nit-picking? Why, because I think that anyone, and that’s ANYONE, who lumps a person into a group of people are feeding on a sterotype and not addressing an individual. (And you DEFEND your statement because of “living on adrenaline after two hours of sleep and being denied caffeine by my doctor” If that’s the case, why didn’t you wait until you had slept so you wouldn’t be writing under such stress?)
All you had to do was add words like “Some White Men” or even “Most White Men”.
That’s all.
A couple simple words that would take into account that just because someone is a certain sex or color they are NOT all the same. That we are all INDIVIDUALS first.
From all appearances, white men automatically associate Asian women with sexual submissivness availability. But that’s not something anyone talks about, really, is it?
All white men associate all asian women with submissiveness? Wow, you got all that from escort ads?
If you peruse my video collection you might get the impression that all people of pallor associate Asian women with assertive kung fu fighting, hopping vampire bashing, giant monster battling, saviors of civilization…but I don’t know if that characterization is any more valid. Nobody really talks about THAT either, except to gripe at me, “Don’t you ever watch any NORMAL movies?”
Now who in the past have been referred as dogs?
Jews and Christians, in the Koran. Saracens. People in slums from India. Bounty hunters.
You really really have to be looking for trouble to see dog as a code that the cartoonist snuck in there. Never heard the word used as a reference to slaves. You’d have a better argument if you claimed it was actually supposed to be “dawg” which is African American vernacular for a close friend or that “dog’ refers to the use of attack dogs during the civil rights demonstrations.
But you missed the obvious connection: “bewar of dog” is an anagram for “A Bro God Few” I trust the meaning is clear.
Posted by A.T. at February 24, 2009 10:22 AM
From all appearances, white men automatically associate Asian women with sexual submissivness availability. But that’s not something anyone talks about, really, is it?
Oh FFS..
“all appearances”? Citing two examples? One of which points out that part of the appeal is that Asian women are NOT “šlûŧš”?
“white men automatically associate” Is that ‘all’ white men, or just some significant percentage?
Sigh.
A.T. – Flag me as one white man who is perfectly happy to talk about this, if you can present an argument that’s slightly less racist!
To me the whole taboo of discussing race and racism is tied to the way that the PC pendulum has currently swung too far to one side;
It used to be that if you said something intending to give offense it was automatically bad.
That moved to the point were if you took offense at anything someone said to you they were automatically bad.
We’re now at a point where if you say something that a third party thinks *might* cause offense to someone else you’re automatically bad.
Frankly, it’s no bloody wonder people are afraid to express any opinion, even the opinion that they flat out don’t give a rodent’s rectum about what race you are, because that shows insensitivity…
Don’t even get me started on how in the UK anyone who wants to discuss immigration is instantly tagged as a racist!
Feh!!
Cheers.
Yeeeaaahhhh, it’s the blacks who make it hard to talk about race.
1Posted by A.T. at February 24, 2009 11:25 AM
How would you like it if someone came up to you and said, “Oh, you’re so nice and so kind. It’s nice that you people can come to America and learn to speak English and have good manners … “
If a stranger came up and said that, I’d assume they were an idiot. Some percentage of people are idiots,and there may well be a significant correlation between those who are racist and those who are idiots. But I suspect there are probably a whole lot of people who don’t come up to you and say that…
I’ve had that happen. More than once. This is why I own this bag.
Which seems like a very suitable response. (It’s also a curiously funny/depressing thing that someone’s manufacturing and selling those bags! Ahh, capitalism!)
As a Chinese-American I deal with those
assumptions and expecations quite often. I’m sure Hispanics also get this sort of treatment as well, deservingly or not.
Gronk? OK.. under what particular set of circumstances would a random Hispanic possibly deserve that? 🙂
Cheers!
(Look, I’m white, male and over 50 – if I can say anything that’s not racist, sexist or ageist it probably counts as a minor miracle! But my intentions are good!)
So, I ask you, o snarky one
You might want to step back and review your own posts, because there was nothing wrong with Richard’s. He asked a simple question, and now you’re going off on him.
No, there’s no defending the notion that white guys have a thing for Asian women, but the qualifiers *some* or *most* certainly should be applied.
But perhaps instead of çráppìņg all over white guys (which seems to be an acceptable practice to all minorities in this country, whether it’s deserved or not), it might be better to examine a little bit about why this is the case.
Oh, another quick thought regarding something I remembered from a buddy of mine and his girlfriend. They spent time in Japan teaching English. He’s Hindu Indian, but she’s six feet tall and about as flour white as you can get. She spent plenty of time while there fending off the advances of Japanese men who were basically the same as men here when it comes to Asian women.
So, this whole this is not unique to American males.
Hi, PAD and crew!
Long time blog reader, occasional poster.
I think PAD makes some good points, but perhaps errs a bit TOO much on the side of coming down on African-Americans for the reticence regarding racial discussions. There are plenty of other examples on the white side that would showcase how some whites are still racist but refuse to acknowledge it. For example, racial profiling – if a black man jogs down the street, some automatically assume he’s running due to crime…not just for his health. Or perhaps the automatic assumptions that some have that if a person is black they must neccessarily know all about rap music and be able to play basketball well.
I have an Asian friend from college who often got comments like the ones A.T. got. One time she visited a church and afterwards someone asked her “Are you from Nepal?”. She said, “No, I’m from North Carolina!”. I don’t agree that all white men should be lumped together, but, again, there are overt and covert examples of racism and stereotyping that do happen because a person is of a certain race (and, yes, that includes assumptions about whites as well).
Look, first of all I want to address the Post cartoon. No matter what the original intent of the artist was, it’s no shocker that someone would see it as being racist. I mean, c’mon, making parallels between chimps and a black man… I don’t know where the average PAD blog reader hangs out, but I still have to tolerate people around me starting sentences with “I’m not a racist, but those fûçkìņg monkeys in Oakland…” Long story short, it probably shouldn’t have been published in a major newspaper. And yeah, it’s pretty clear why.
Secondly, to all of you who are up in arms about the “white men/Asian submissive” statement. How many of you have made a generalization in the past without qualifying it (as she didn’t), and afterward found that no one was willing to examine your intent, but rather berate you for it? I know I’ve been there. Especially when discussing an issue as sensitive as racism or sexism. So let’s everybody cut everyone else some slack her, and step off the defensive long enough to have a discussion.
Honestly, I think there’s a tendency of white men (not all white men, mind you, and this is also only a tendency) to try to blow the racism whistle on minorities whenever they feel like they’ve got a clear shot. Why this is, I don’t know. I guess we all want to feel sometimes like we’re fighting the system, even if by making a victim out of ourselves we neglect to see that we are the perpetrators of said system. Again, I’ve been there. As an incredibly staunch feminist I find it easy to lose sight of the racism issue when I’m defending my own cause. But honestly, if you’re white, Christian, heterosexual, above the poverty line, and yes, also male, in America, you’re not going to be facing racism in the magnitude that someone who doesn’t fit all of those qualifications. And please, don’t try to cite specific examples of what you said to disqualify the previous statement, I’d be disappointed to try to decipher laundry lists of bad encounters and pin them up against each other to compare.
I think racism needs to be talked about a lot more than it is. Probably largely due to the fact that I’m a young adult and associate mostly with other young adults, I encounter a lot of people who have some disbelief that racism (against minorities!) is still an issue here in America. An overwhelming number. And I think it’s the little things, like a Hispanic or Asian person being asked how they know English so well, that kind of show the enormity of how large scale this issue is. There will always be jerks who beat people because their skin isn’t the right color, but maybe if we can get people more used to the fact that people with brown skin don’t necessarily have an accent, these little things will dissipate. Alright, I’ll get off my soapbox now.
“How many of you have made a generalization in the past without qualifying it (as she didn’t), and afterward found that no one was willing to examine your intent, but rather berate you for it? I know I’ve been there. Especially when discussing an issue as sensitive as racism or sexism. So let’s everybody cut everyone else some slack her, and step off the defensive long enough to have a discussion.”
Good points, but I believe there’s a difference between making a remark towards a person during a quick moment in time and writing a statement, like one posts on a Message Board, for example.
I can ALMOST cut someone slack if they make a remark or statement off the cuff, in the heat of the moment as it were. But where’s the excuse here?
As you state “Especially when discussing an issue as sensitive as racism or sexism.” when you’re joining in on discussing a sensitive issue, when you take the time to write down your points, when you have that luxury of time to reread your statement to make sure that you’re getting exactly the point that you wish across to those who may read it, I believe those words hold more water than someone making a snap generalization.
Honestly, I think there’s a tendency of white men (not all white men, mind you, and this is also only a tendency) to try to blow the racism whistle on minorities whenever they feel like they’ve got a clear shot.
I’m not entirely sure what you mean. You mean that whites unjustifiably claim that blacks are acting in a racist manner toward whites? I’d be interested in some examples. Because it seems to me that the very act of observing that someone who is black is acting in a racist manner is likely to immediately get one accused of being racist oneself. But I’m willing to be convinced otherwise.
PAD
“But honestly, if you’re white, Christian, heterosexual, above the poverty line, and yes, also male, in America, you’re not going to be facing racism in the magnitude that someone who doesn’t fit all of those qualifications.
Wait, so now we have QUALIFICATIONS for racism? That it’s OK to hate or treat someone badly because their qualifications aren’t as severe as others? Do you truly believe this?
I’m sorry Jasmine, I cannot understand this thought process.
ANY abject hatred or intolerance towards ANY person simply because their sex, race or religion should NEVER be accepted. When you begin placing qualifiers to that, IMO, you’re not much different then others who practice racism.
Jasmine, can I borrow the soap box? 🙂
I mean, c’mon, making parallels between chimps and a black man…
But that’s kind of the point–it isn’t clear to all of us that the cartoonist WAS making parallels between a chimp and Obama. If anyone thinks that was the case then sure, one could take offense. But that has yet to be established and to me the preponderance of the evidence suggests otherwise.
How many of you have made a generalization in the past without qualifying it (as she didn’t), and afterward found that no one was willing to examine your intent, but rather berate you for it? I know I’ve been there. Especially when discussing an issue as sensitive as racism or sexism. So let’s everybody cut everyone else some slack her, and step off the defensive long enough to have a discussion.
Point taken but since her complaint was that it bothered her to have people making generalizations it stands out like a sore thumb that she would so carelessly do the same. Especially when her generalization was based on such flimsy evidence. Were I to generalize a minority based on my impressions of escort ads I would think that my friends and family of the non-caucasion persuasion might gently smite me upon my noggin. In fact, I rather hope they would, unless it was clearly some joke. I believe that Ms. A.T. was being perfectly serious.
But honestly, if you’re white, Christian, heterosexual, above the poverty line, and yes, also male, in America, you’re not going to be facing racism in the magnitude that someone who doesn’t fit all of those qualifications. And please, don’t try to cite specific examples of what you said to disqualify the previous statement, I’d be disappointed to try to decipher laundry lists of bad encounters and pin them up against each other to compare.
If, as a general rule, you are saying that a white male Christian American who isn’t poor is far less likely to face any harm from racism than someone who does not belong to that demographic, no question. If you mean, as it seems to be written, that no WMCA who isn’t P could ever be victimized more than any non-WMCA who isn’t P, well, that makes no sense. And I think part of the problem with Whites discussing race is that there is an attitude among some minority members that they had dare not complain about any shabby treatment or even out and out race hatred directed at them because their problems are small potatoes compared to what the vast numbers of minorities have suffered.
Well you know what? It doesn’t really matter to me if a white girl is 100 times less likely to be attacked because of her race than a black girl when the situation is that my daughter is attacked by a black girl for the “crime” of dating a black man. That’s a racist thing to do and I have no patience for any qualifications. Maybe you’re right that some white guys love to point out when minorities are being racist but however wrong it is to seek out those instances it seems to me that it’s a paltry wrong compared to the actual racism. Unless one thinks of minority members as children, not responsible for their actions, not deserving of being held to the same high standards as white men.
And I think it’s the little things, like a Hispanic or Asian person being asked how they know English so well, that kind of show the enormity of how large scale this issue is.
See, I read that and I think it shows how far we’ve come. It’s wrong, to be sure, but it’s several orders of magnitude less wrong than what was commonplace and accepted just a few short decades ago.
All that said, Jasmine, I think we’d get along. You remind me of one of my feminist friends from college, who I still regard as one of my favorite people of all time, even if we would only agree on politics during those rare times when our views crashed together during the crazy times of college, like two moths swinging through the flames. I think most people are fundamentally decent and can overcome the prejudices of their upbringing. People like Al Sharpton don’t seem interested in doing that, their power depends on keeping the old hatreds burning.
Ha, ha, ha! X-D
This post started with “Actions speak louder than words”, but posters keep picking apart each others words and verbiage!
Posted by Alan at February 24, 2009 04:45 PM
Ha, ha, ha! X-D
This post started with “Actions speak louder than words”, but posters keep picking apart each others words and verbiage!
I believe the only appropriate expression here is “Doh!”
It’s a written medium.
The action of posting your words kind of means that you’re either going to be expected to stand by them, or to get shredded to a variable extent by a fairly intelligent audience if you do seem to be talking through your áršë.
Which is why it’s good to choose them carefully.
Cheers.
Substituting one stereotype for another?
Bad form.
“I think someone’s been watching too much pørņ.”
Or too much anime. But then again, that’s somewhat redundant.
Substituting one stereotype for another?
Bad form.
I don’t think Peter actually associates Asian women with martial arts ášš kickers. The point was, the stereotype mentioned was the exact opposite of the (in my opinion) more common stereotype. I mean, if someone claimed that white men believe that all black men are bad athletes with small pëņìšëš one could point out that this is not the generally held description of the stereotype (without necessarily claiming that one believes the stereotype to be true).
Yipes. Given how this thread has gone, with a readership that is probably more in agreement on the larger issues than most, is it any wonder people would rather talk about safer, less contentious issues, like the Middle East and abortion?
Racial epithets that whites can only refer to as “the N word” whereas blacks use the term routinely in rap songs?
I’m not exactly an expert in hip hop, but believe it or not, there are lots of rap songs out there that DON’T use that word, and there are even quite a few people of African American extraction who aren’t 100% thrilled with that word being casually thrown about like that.
As long as ‘black people’ are treated as some kind of unified mass, whether in speech or assumption, then we still have a ways to go with racism. Frankly, that’s the root of the problem–most white people operate under the assumption that everybody has the same latitude of choices that they do. If you’re unhappy with the notion of a National Association of Black Journalists, the answer is make it obsolete by dismantling the power structures that make such an association necessary to begin with.
http://mmcisaac.faculty.asu.edu/emc598ge/Unpacking.html
Substituting one stereotype for another? Bad form.
If you want to say it wasn’t a funny joke, go ahead. Me, I thought it was at least a little funny. Either way, it really WAS intended to be a joke. The original assertion was so ludicrous to me that I felt the only proper response was to put forward something equally ludicrous.
PAD
I don’t think Peter actually associates Asian women with martial arts ášš kickers. The point was, the stereotype mentioned was the exact opposite of the (in my opinion) more common stereotype.
I still remember when I was researching the Punisher manga-style comic that I was writing for Marvel. The concept was that I was supposed to re-imagine a character called the Punisher with a Japanese angle. So I ran a google search on the following words just to get a start: Japanese and Punishment.
Holy mother of God.
If for some bizarre reason any white guys out there DO have a mental image of Asian women being sexually submissive, go do that research. That’ll pretty much put an end to it.
PAD
I’m not exactly an expert in hip hop, but believe it or not, there are lots of rap songs out there that DON’T use that word, and there are even quite a few people of African American extraction who aren’t 100% thrilled with that word being casually thrown about like that.
Sure, I know that. For the most part it’s only in gangsta rap. Doesn’t mean anything I said was inaccurate. I said blacks use the term routinely in rap songs. They do. If you want to find me some rap songs that use that language that were written by anyone other than black rappers, be my guest. But I doubt you’ll succeed.
Frankly, that’s the root of the problem–most white people operate under the assumption that everybody has the same latitude of choices that they do.
I know I’m not operating on that assumption. My point, however, was that too many representatives of the black community have made it extremely difficult to discuss racism without being accused of being a racist.
If you’re unhappy with the notion of a National Association of Black Journalists, the answer is make it obsolete by dismantling the power structures that make such an association necessary to begin with.
Never happen. Will never happen. It has far less to do with “power structures” and far more to do with the fact that we, as Americans, loooooove our special interest groups and organizations. Not only that, but we love segregating ourselves. If you don’t believe me, go to a university and float the notion that student organizations or fraternities or sororities that are divided along racial or nationalistic lines should be shut down. See how far you get.
Two hundred years ago, people fought and died for the right to be called “Americans.” Not British-Americans. Americans. And now we’re not. We’re African-Americans. Italian-Americans. Asian-Americans. Japanese-Americans. Irish-Americans. Etc, etc. People embrace these notions and call them celebrating of roots. But it could be argued that it’s also divisive, turning us into a nation of hyphenates rather than a nation that takes pride in itself.
My mother was born in Israel, which is on the continent of Asia. Most African-Americans have to go back centuries to trace an actual ancestor from Africa. I have more cause to call myself an Asian American than they do to call themselves African Americans. Curiously, I’m perfectly satisfied to just be an American. Maybe there’s something wrong with me.
PAD
I just spent more than a half-hour composing my thoughts into a message that I hoped would not offend. Then I erased most of it as something that would likely offend. I guess I fit the “coward” category. Sigh.
Well, I will say that I think Holder is right in the sense that yes, the United States still has a problem with racism. (I’m not comparing it to other countries. Even if we do better, we should still address the standing problem. How? Not a clue.)
However, I agree that he made a mistake by saying that we’re a nation of cowards because that’s not going to get people in a talking or listening mood.
“The word “ņìggárdlÿ,” the utterance of which in a private staff meeting resulted in a mayoral aide in Washington, D.C. being forced to resign?”
Seriously? This really happened? That’s outrageous! So, what, we can’t say any words that have “nig” in them, regardless of whether they have anything to do with the N-word?
A similar thing happened to my husband recently. He was suspended from work for almost a month, and nearly fired, because of alleged racial slurs that he made against his co-workers. It turned into this big witch hunt, during which they actually asked him if he used the word “renege,” which they apparently thought was a racist term. Of course, in his defense, he couldn’t help but bring up his co-workers’ gay jokes aimed at him, until it became a huge inquisition that ultimately forced him to transfer to another office.
“The word “ņìggárdlÿ,” the utterance of which in a private staff meeting resulted in a mayoral aide in Washington, D.C. being forced to resign?”
Seriously? This really happened? That’s outrageous!
Yes. Anthony Williams, the mayor of DC, accepted the resignation of David Howard, for using the word “ņìggárdlÿ” during a staff meeting. Williams asserted that the use of the word by Howard was not reflective of the sort of judgment he expected from his top aides.
However, to be fair, spokesman for the NAACP weighed in on Howard’s side.
PAD
It turned into this big witch hunt, during which they actually asked him if he used the word “renege,” which they apparently thought was a racist term.
This is why I’d advise anyone in this situation to have a tape recorder with them.
I get the “racist” card thrown at me every so often for merely stating the obvious just at the changes I’ve seen all around Long Island in my lifetime. I’ve lived the first half my life in the Levittown/Hicksville area, and the last 15 in Islip, and in that time there’s been a huge influx of immigrants of several nationalities. And guess what? No matter how polite I am or cordial, whenever I’m in an area they’ve congregated in, ALL of them act as if I’M the outsider, the one who’s been in the community long before them.
I worked in a bank in Mineola where we had to hire a Spanish speaking teller specifically for the clients who refused (REFUSED, mind you) to speak to any English-speaking teller. And they also refused to let their children learn English as well. Why? They claimed it was a “Matter of cultural pride”. If you’re so proud of your culture, why go elsewhere for the “opportunitites” you don’t have back there, but then demand that it completely change it’s ways so you feel more at home? I can’t fathom the logic. I was already reprimanded for my “insensitivity” when I said that no other ethnic group I’ve come in contact with has taken such offense that I didn’t try to learn THEIR language. Indian immigrants don’t demand I speak Hindu, Chinese immigrants have never demanded I speak Mandarin, Russian immigrants have never demanded or expected me to speak their language, etc.
Specific groups aside, most immigrant group advocates in general will cry out that America’s supposed to be a “melting pot” in the same breath that we should be endeavoring to learn their language to make them feel more welcome. Sorry, but any group who uses that argument should do a little “melting” themselves rather than floating like huge, solitary potatoes in the stew.
But as has been pointed out above, pointing out the hypocrisy of any special interest group is the quickest way to get the “racist” label slapped on you.
2 quick things, because this is one of those topics I can go on a tirade about, but I just refuse to get involved. 🙂
1)Peter, I completely agree with everything you have said so far.
2)In that regard, I have a supervisor who is black. We get along really well. But I am always afraid of bringing up anything race related because of a huge fear of being labeled a racist. Even though I know I am speaking positively about her/racial issues, in the back of my mind I sit there and think: Am I wording this correctly? Will she misconstrue it? And that really bothers me. Because I hate having to censor myself in the slightest.
I applaud your post, Mr. David. Well put.
The comments on this post are awesome. They’re pretty much the embodiment of what always happens when discussions of race and racism come up, and why covert racism is not talked about as often as it should be.
We’ve been taught that “raciest” is such a huge, ugly, mean word, such an utterly horrible thing to be, that whenever it’s mentioned, everyone goes on the defensive. “I’m not raciest, what happened there wasn’t raciest, and you know you’re being raciest, too. We can’t talk about this if you’re going to call me a raciest.”
The armor and weapons come up and it becomes a battle of one-up-manship to prove who is in the wrong. All real discussion falls apart.
And it’s really sad, because many incidents of racism are being done by good, honest, compassionate people who may not even realize what they’re doing or understand why it’s an issue. But when it gets pointed out to them, they often get so caught up denying being raciest that they miss the entire point. They learn nothing and nothing changes.
Really everyone, we need to get over ourselves. Doing something raciest or having raciest thoughts doesn’t mean we’re evil incarnate. No one is perfect. What matters is that we learn, understand, and bring about change when possible.
And yes, I totally realize I spelled “racist” wrong in my entire comment. Firefox spell checker, you fail me.
We’ve been taught that “raciest” is such a huge, ugly, mean word,
I realize you’ve already mentioned the truly classic misspelling, but all I can think of is
“But what’s wrong with being sexy?”
“Not sexy, Nigel. Ist. Ist. SexIST.”
That’s all I have for now. More another time when I have coherent thoughts, perhaps.
TWL
Well put PAD.
“From all appearances, white men automatically associate Asian women with sexual submissivness availability. But that’s not something anyone talks about, really, is it?”
Sorry,A.T., I associate Asian women with the same things as Black women, white women, Jewish women, and all other ethnicities I have or have not dated.
Look pretty, smell nice, feel soft, LOTS smarter than me.