He won. The “West Wing” scenario played out exactly as–
Uh oh.
Has anyone checked on Joe Biden?
PAD
456 comments on “I’ll be darned”
More margin of vote stuff from an AP article:
“Preliminary projections based on 83 percent of the country’s precincts tallied, indicate that more than 131 million Americans will have voted this year, easily outdistancing 2004’s 122.3 million, which had been the highest grand total of voters before.”
So it looks like we’ll beat 2004 pretty decent after all. More faith is restored. 🙂
More margin of vote stuff from an AP article:
“Preliminary projections based on 83 percent of the country’s precincts tallied, indicate that more than 131 million Americans will have voted this year, easily outdistancing 2004’s 122.3 million, which had been the highest grand total of voters before.”
So it looks like we’ll beat 2004 pretty decent after all. More faith is restored. 🙂
…why isn’t there a “European-American” label?
That’s on Monty Burns’s list of signs that will let him know when the rich white man has finally won one.
We Canadians can but applaud enviously. Our federal election back on October 14th saw the lowest [percentile] voter turnout ever. But then, you lot had someone actually worth voting for.
We Canadians can but applaud enviously. Our federal election back on October 14th saw the lowest [percentile] voter turnout ever. But then, you lot had someone actually worth voting for.
“The Abortion Ban in SD failed, the “Personhood” Amendment here in Colorado failed.
Arizona and Florida passed gay marriage bans.
And so far, it looks like California will also pass Amendment 8.
The work to end hatred and bigotry and racism, and to stop making such things part of the laws of states and of the country, is not over.”
And it never will end will it? Is there always going to be some group that’s put down for just *being*?
*sigh* Where’s my pitchfork? Time to go back to the fight. Grow up humanity!
Just watching his victory speech on the BBC, in the interests of balance you should probably have David Tennant off to one side saying “Doesn’t he look young?”, but that was one Hëll of a good speech…
Congratulations to President Elect Obama, and let’s hope that you can all pull together to get the job done!
Cheers.
Just watching his victory speech on the BBC, in the interests of balance you should probably have David Tennant off to one side saying “Doesn’t he look young?”, but that was one Hëll of a good speech…
Congratulations to President Elect Obama, and let’s hope that you can all pull together to get the job done!
Cheers.
I Guess to finish off the West Wing Scenario…
Secretary of State John McCain
I’m overjoyed that Obama will be our next president, and, more importantly (in my opinion, anyway), that Sarah Palin has not been elected to the second highest office in the nation. But it feels a little bittersweet in the face of reports that California’s Proposition 8, Arizona Proposition 102, and Florida’s Amendment 2 have all passed. Progress is made in the office of the presidency while three states backslide into legal support of discrimination and intolerance. *sigh*
Chuck
I’m overjoyed that Obama will be our next president, and, more importantly (in my opinion, anyway), that Sarah Palin has not been elected to the second highest office in the nation. But it feels a little bittersweet in the face of reports that California’s Proposition 8, Arizona Proposition 102, and Florida’s Amendment 2 have all passed. Progress is made in the office of the presidency while three states backslide into legal support of discrimination and intolerance. *sigh*
Chuck
“Funny. I already am reading excuses to explain why Obama doesn’t succeed (such as the mess he has been handed). I grant you the two wars. Those were deliberate choices by Bush. But the current economic situation is directly tied to Democrat policies”
No, *that* is funny: “I can’t believe the Democrat supporters are already using the previous administration’s mess as a reason he won’t succeed. Bush’s mess is the fault of the previous administration anyway.”
“Funny. I already am reading excuses to explain why Obama doesn’t succeed (such as the mess he has been handed). I grant you the two wars. Those were deliberate choices by Bush. But the current economic situation is directly tied to Democrat policies”
No, *that* is funny: “I can’t believe the Democrat supporters are already using the previous administration’s mess as a reason he won’t succeed. Bush’s mess is the fault of the previous administration anyway.”
Ok, so, shall we play out the West Wing scenario, where the new, young president with little foreign policy experience, calls upon his opponent to fill that vital seat in his cabinet, Secretary of State?
I am afraid that it actually makes sense!
Charlie
I would consider Secretary of State Richard Lugar close enough to the Sorkin ending, just as the deaths were similar but not equivalent.
I would consider Secretary of State Richard Lugar close enough to the Sorkin ending, just as the deaths were similar but not equivalent.
Sorry, Chris,
Didn’t see your post until after I posted mine…
Chuck,
Get over it. You can’t redefine things just to suit your own feelings. Maybe in another 20 years it will work, but when something has been defined as one thing for over 2000 years, you can’t make everyone change their minds in 20. You definitely didn’t change mine, and I am about as tolerant and open minded as you can get.
Charlie
Secretary of State John McCain
Oh God, let’s hope not. I mean, I doubt you’re serious, but let’s hope not all the same.
This is a guy of whom Ezra Klein once wrote “I hold John McCain’s foreign policy in rather low esteem. It is wrong, yes, but just as bad, and maybe more dangerous, it is profoundly immature. It is a foreign policy built upon perceived slights, personal grievances, and pride. It is a foreign policy that would risk great power conflict becausePutin didn’t pass the potatoes quickly enough at last year’s G8 luncheon reception.”
Just because he was able to check his loathing for Obama at the door long enough to give a speech last night doesn’t mean that he can rein himself in whenever he likes, so while he’s clearly a competent Senator he is not somebody you pick up the phone and call when you need somebody to smooth over rocky relations with another country. Good chance that he’d say something to make things worse.
On another note, while this letter is no longer as relevant as it would have been before the election ended I think it gives you a good idea of how long and how much John McCain has disliked the President-Elect:
Oh God, let’s hope not. I mean, I doubt you’re serious, but let’s hope not all the same.
This is a guy of whom Ezra Klein once wrote “I hold John McCain’s foreign policy in rather low esteem. It is wrong, yes, but just as bad, and maybe more dangerous, it is profoundly immature. It is a foreign policy built upon perceived slights, personal grievances, and pride. It is a foreign policy that would risk great power conflict becausePutin didn’t pass the potatoes quickly enough at last year’s G8 luncheon reception.”
Just because he was able to check his loathing for Obama at the door long enough to give a speech last night doesn’t mean that he can rein himself in whenever he likes, so while he’s clearly a competent Senator he is not somebody you pick up the phone and call when you need somebody to smooth over rocky relations with another country. Good chance that he’d say something to make things worse.
On another note, while this letter is no longer as relevant as it would have been before the election ended I think it gives you a good idea of how long and how much John McCain has disliked the President-Elect:
Charlie E.: Get over it. You can’t redefine things just to suit your own feelings. Maybe in another 20 years it will work, but when something has been defined as one thing for over 2000 years, you can’t make everyone change their minds in 20. You definitely didn’t change mine, and I am about as tolerant and open minded as you can get.
This has nothing to do with definition.
I really find it bizarre that people keep saying that they’re fighting for the definition of a word. Even my father has made that argument to me. And yet, in 1970, the word ‘arcade’ had nothing to do with video games. The word had been around for a long, long time, it just had nothing to do with video games. It took much less than 20 years for that to change. Words change all the time, yet how often are state amendments passed to keep their definitions from changing?
Within the last few hundred years, marriages in many places had absolutely nothing to do with love. They were arranged. Some communities didn’t even have the parents arrange them, but community leaders or the wealthy. So even the word ‘marriage’ has changed considerably over the last few centuries.
This was never about the definition of the word. This was about how separate-but-equal policies don’t work, they always lead to more discrimination. Even if the California amendment and the Florida one that I voted against didn’t go the right way, it was still worth trying and it is definitely worth lamenting. This is not remotely in “Get over it” territory.
Charlie E.: Get over it. You can’t redefine things just to suit your own feelings. Maybe in another 20 years it will work, but when something has been defined as one thing for over 2000 years, you can’t make everyone change their minds in 20. You definitely didn’t change mine, and I am about as tolerant and open minded as you can get.
This has nothing to do with definition.
I really find it bizarre that people keep saying that they’re fighting for the definition of a word. Even my father has made that argument to me. And yet, in 1970, the word ‘arcade’ had nothing to do with video games. The word had been around for a long, long time, it just had nothing to do with video games. It took much less than 20 years for that to change. Words change all the time, yet how often are state amendments passed to keep their definitions from changing?
Within the last few hundred years, marriages in many places had absolutely nothing to do with love. They were arranged. Some communities didn’t even have the parents arrange them, but community leaders or the wealthy. So even the word ‘marriage’ has changed considerably over the last few centuries.
This was never about the definition of the word. This was about how separate-but-equal policies don’t work, they always lead to more discrimination. Even if the California amendment and the Florida one that I voted against didn’t go the right way, it was still worth trying and it is definitely worth lamenting. This is not remotely in “Get over it” territory.
Charlie, not to pound this too much, but “marriage” HASN’T had the same definition as we Westerners now recognize. It wasn’t until 342 that the Romans outlawed two guys marrying, and even then it didn’t have the same meaning as what we have now. Progress will be made only after the first step is followed by the second and the pattern repeats from there.
Michael Crichton RIP
1942-2008
Also other sad news according to reports Forrest J Ackerman is not long for this world.
Michael Crichton RIP
1942-2008
Also other sad news according to reports Forrest J Ackerman is not long for this world.
Michael Crichton RIP 1942-2008
Westworld is still one of the greatest movies of its genre and The Andromeda Strain as a book or film still has the power to cause chills. The man was a master when he was on top of his game.
Bad time for multi-genre geeks like me. Michael Crichton passes right behind Tony Hillerman and Ackerman is going to be a very all too soon next passing. But oh what wonderful things they left those of us who are still here.
Michael Crichton RIP 1942-2008
Westworld is still one of the greatest movies of its genre and The Andromeda Strain as a book or film still has the power to cause chills. The man was a master when he was on top of his game.
Bad time for multi-genre geeks like me. Michael Crichton passes right behind Tony Hillerman and Ackerman is going to be a very all too soon next passing. But oh what wonderful things they left those of us who are still here.
“Get over it. You can’t redefine things just to suit your own feelings. Maybe in another 20 years it will work, but when something has been defined as one thing for over 2000 years, you can’t make everyone change their minds in 20. You definitely didn’t change mine, and I am about as tolerant and open minded as you can get.”
Seriously? 2000 years? One man and one woman. I guess all those cultures from the past 2000 years that allowed men to marry multiple women were just stretching the definition of a word?
This isn’t about a definition. It’s about discrimination being cultivated and bred right in front of us. To think that on the same day that a minority, of African descent no less, is elected to the highest seat of government for our country, when mere decades ago this same man wouldn’t have been allowed to walk through the same door as his opponent…on that same day, we get several states seeking to embed in their constitutions repressive and oppressive missives about who can and can’t enjoy the public union that is marraige.
It seems we’ve come so far, but have we, really?
My earlier comments were from a time when I saw Obama had just taken California, catapulting him to the top of the electoral votes, but the “popular” vote at the time underneath was still a close 51% to 49%. Yes, it’s a clear win either way, but somebody’s going to quibble about how “close” the margin was, to be sure.
It is hard to overcome a prejudice but it is much harder if not impossible to overcome prejudice.
“To think that on the same day that a minority, of African descent no less, is elected to the highest seat of government for our country, when mere decades ago this same man wouldn’t have been allowed to walk through the same door as his opponent…on that same day, we get several states seeking to embed in their constitutions repressive and oppressive missives about who can and can’t enjoy the public union that is marraige.”
And if that same man walks the walk, and isn’t just an empty politician, he’ll come out and condemn the various anti-gay rights votes. I’ll be waiting for that.
“To think that on the same day that a minority, of African descent no less, is elected to the highest seat of government for our country, when mere decades ago this same man wouldn’t have been allowed to walk through the same door as his opponent…on that same day, we get several states seeking to embed in their constitutions repressive and oppressive missives about who can and can’t enjoy the public union that is marraige.”
And if that same man walks the walk, and isn’t just an empty politician, he’ll come out and condemn the various anti-gay rights votes. I’ll be waiting for that.
“And if that same man walks the walk, and isn’t just an empty politician, he’ll come out and condemn the various anti-gay rights votes. I’ll be waiting for that.”
Don’t hold your breath. He’s danced around that topic several times now. I doubt that he’ll risk the backlash over what he may see as a “minor” issue given the larger problems he’ll be walking into.
“And if that same man walks the walk, and isn’t just an empty politician, he’ll come out and condemn the various anti-gay rights votes. I’ll be waiting for that.”
Don’t hold your breath. He’s danced around that topic several times now. I doubt that he’ll risk the backlash over what he may see as a “minor” issue given the larger problems he’ll be walking into.
One sad part: up here a couple of papers had photos of jubilant people, ostensibly somewhere in Africa, who were hopeful that,with a black in office, the U.S. might finally start giving Africa the aid it needs. Unfortunately, it would appear they haven’t been paying attention. America’s economy is in tatters, and its government is in fiscal hole so deep that, next to it, Project Mohole is as a small roadside pothole. I don’t see them being in any position to bring major aid to anyone else any time soon.
One sad part: up here a couple of papers had photos of jubilant people, ostensibly somewhere in Africa, who were hopeful that,with a black in office, the U.S. might finally start giving Africa the aid it needs. Unfortunately, it would appear they haven’t been paying attention. America’s economy is in tatters, and its government is in fiscal hole so deep that, next to it, Project Mohole is as a small roadside pothole. I don’t see them being in any position to bring major aid to anyone else any time soon.
One sad part: up here a couple of papers had photos of jubilant people, ostensibly somewhere in Africa, who were hopeful that,with a black in office, the U.S. might finally start giving Africa the aid it needs.
The irony being that W has taken sub-Saharan African aid more seriously than any President in living memory. It’s the one place he’s popular. California is discussing naming sewage plants after him, but he’s getting highways named after him in Africa.
And if that same man walks the walk, and isn’t just an empty politician, he’ll come out and condemn the various anti-gay rights votes. I’ll be waiting for that.
A little late to do much good. Prop 8 would have been defeated if it were not overwhelmingly supported by the Black vote (and latino vote, though to a lesser degree). Had Obama made a plea to his Black supporters to not vote for the measure it might (maybe) have made enough of a difference. It isn’t like there was any way it would have cost him CA. But either he genuinely believes that marriage is strictly exclusively for heterosexual couples or he doesn’t but is unwilling to expend any capital on it. Both are unfortunate though to me the latter would be more so.
Considering that Bill Clinton got embroiled in the whole gays in the military thing and it cost him early momentum I don’t think Obama will risk doing the right thing. Unfortunate but not unexpected. Hope I’m wrong.
And if that same man walks the walk, and isn’t just an empty politician, he’ll come out and condemn the various anti-gay rights votes. I’ll be waiting for that.
A little late to do much good. Prop 8 would have been defeated if it were not overwhelmingly supported by the Black vote (and latino vote, though to a lesser degree). Had Obama made a plea to his Black supporters to not vote for the measure it might (maybe) have made enough of a difference. It isn’t like there was any way it would have cost him CA. But either he genuinely believes that marriage is strictly exclusively for heterosexual couples or he doesn’t but is unwilling to expend any capital on it. Both are unfortunate though to me the latter would be more so.
Considering that Bill Clinton got embroiled in the whole gays in the military thing and it cost him early momentum I don’t think Obama will risk doing the right thing. Unfortunate but not unexpected. Hope I’m wrong.
Congrats from the North. It’s especially great that unlike here in Canada, it sounds like voter apathy was *lower* than usual.
I actually wonder if the show 24 helped with the election outcome: thus far the series has had two black Presidents, with the colour being a non-issue. Since the first of them in particular was well liked and his coliour was a non-issue, it might have helped some people get used to the idea of a black President.
Congrats from the North. It’s especially great that unlike here in Canada, it sounds like voter apathy was *lower* than usual.
I actually wonder if the show 24 helped with the election outcome: thus far the series has had two black Presidents, with the colour being a non-issue. Since the first of them in particular was well liked and his coliour was a non-issue, it might have helped some people get used to the idea of a black President.
blindpew: My earlier comments were from a time when I saw Obama had just taken California, catapulting him to the top of the electoral votes, but the “popular” vote at the time underneath was still a close 51% to 49%. Yes, it’s a clear win either way, but somebody’s going to quibble about how “close” the margin was, to be sure.
The final results were 52% to 46%, which is a very big mandate for this country. There won’t be the slightest bit of quibbling about things being close, it wasn’t close at all.
I actually wonder if the show 24 helped with the election outcome: thus far the series has had two black Presidents, with the colour being a non-issue. Since the first of them in particular was well liked and his coliour was a non-issue, it might have helped some people get used to the idea of a black President.
You also have to credit DEEP IMPACT which showed that a black president would preside over the destruction of the eastern seaboard by a comet…ok, maybe not that one. There was Terry Alan Crews in IDIOCRACY…maybe not such a great example either. Ok, Tiny Lister in THE FIFTH ELEMENT. You think anybody would screw with a country who had Tiny Lister as its president? He could invade Vietnam and tell the World he was just settling an old score and the World wouldn’t say šhìŧ.
Actually, Americans have been ready for a black president for quite a while. Colin Powell could have had the job if he’d wanted it.
I actually wonder if the show 24 helped with the election outcome: thus far the series has had two black Presidents, with the colour being a non-issue. Since the first of them in particular was well liked and his coliour was a non-issue, it might have helped some people get used to the idea of a black President.
You also have to credit DEEP IMPACT which showed that a black president would preside over the destruction of the eastern seaboard by a comet…ok, maybe not that one. There was Terry Alan Crews in IDIOCRACY…maybe not such a great example either. Ok, Tiny Lister in THE FIFTH ELEMENT. You think anybody would screw with a country who had Tiny Lister as its president? He could invade Vietnam and tell the World he was just settling an old score and the World wouldn’t say šhìŧ.
Actually, Americans have been ready for a black president for quite a while. Colin Powell could have had the job if he’d wanted it.
Colin Powell could have had the job if he’d wanted it.
Not as a democrat in 2000, and he chose saying condoms make sex safer over keeping the option of running as a republican for president.
Jason M. Bryant: I really find it bizarre that people keep saying that they’re fighting for the definition of a word.
Luigi Novi: Thank you. I just love how, in a country in which something like 80-90% of books are bought by 5% of the population (IIRC), and in which anti-intellectualism and contempt for eduction, intelligence, and knowledge is firmly enshrined in some circles, those intolerant of letting gays be happy, none of whom can maintain a coherent footing in articulating this position in a discussion, all of a sudden become sticklers for vocabulary, as if that’s not a smokescreen for what just boils down to matters of aesthetics and taste.
Jason M. Bryant: I really find it bizarre that people keep saying that they’re fighting for the definition of a word.
Luigi Novi: Thank you. I just love how, in a country in which something like 80-90% of books are bought by 5% of the population (IIRC), and in which anti-intellectualism and contempt for eduction, intelligence, and knowledge is firmly enshrined in some circles, those intolerant of letting gays be happy, none of whom can maintain a coherent footing in articulating this position in a discussion, all of a sudden become sticklers for vocabulary, as if that’s not a smokescreen for what just boils down to matters of aesthetics and taste.
Here’s some pools I’d like to start:
1) How soon before the second asassination attempt? (Especially since the Bush DOJ doesn’t seem interested in prosecuting the first one.)
2) How many blanket pardons will Bush give to his cronies in January before he leaves office? How many in his own administration will he give a pass from any future prosecution for any possible crimes committed in office?
3) How long after the new congress meets before the Republicans threaten to fillibuster legislation? For extra bonus points, how many seconds of TV coverage will the media give to reporting that?
4) How soon after the election will gas hit $4 a gallon again? Y’all do know that lowering before the election is a Republican ploy, right? Reduced demand, increased stockpiles my eye.
4) How soon after the election will gas hit $4 a gallon again? Y’all do know that lowering before the election is a Republican ploy, right? Reduced demand, increased stockpiles my eye.
And the relative strength of the dollar has absolutely nothing to do with it, either, right?
4) How soon after the election will gas hit $4 a gallon again? Y’all do know that lowering before the election is a Republican ploy, right? Reduced demand, increased stockpiles my eye.
And the relative strength of the dollar has absolutely nothing to do with it, either, right?
Shhh!!! Roger, don’t use logic or bring real world facts into this matter. It just messes the arguments up.
• 
More margin of vote stuff from an AP article:
“Preliminary projections based on 83 percent of the country’s precincts tallied, indicate that more than 131 million Americans will have voted this year, easily outdistancing 2004’s 122.3 million, which had been the highest grand total of voters before.”
So it looks like we’ll beat 2004 pretty decent after all. More faith is restored. 🙂
More margin of vote stuff from an AP article:
“Preliminary projections based on 83 percent of the country’s precincts tallied, indicate that more than 131 million Americans will have voted this year, easily outdistancing 2004’s 122.3 million, which had been the highest grand total of voters before.”
So it looks like we’ll beat 2004 pretty decent after all. More faith is restored. 🙂
That’s on Monty Burns’s list of signs that will let him know when the rich white man has finally won one.
We Canadians can but applaud enviously. Our federal election back on October 14th saw the lowest [percentile] voter turnout ever. But then, you lot had someone actually worth voting for.
We Canadians can but applaud enviously. Our federal election back on October 14th saw the lowest [percentile] voter turnout ever. But then, you lot had someone actually worth voting for.
“The Abortion Ban in SD failed, the “Personhood” Amendment here in Colorado failed.
Arizona and Florida passed gay marriage bans.
And so far, it looks like California will also pass Amendment 8.
The work to end hatred and bigotry and racism, and to stop making such things part of the laws of states and of the country, is not over.”
And it never will end will it? Is there always going to be some group that’s put down for just *being*?
*sigh* Where’s my pitchfork? Time to go back to the fight. Grow up humanity!
Just watching his victory speech on the BBC, in the interests of balance you should probably have David Tennant off to one side saying “Doesn’t he look young?”, but that was one Hëll of a good speech…
Congratulations to President Elect Obama, and let’s hope that you can all pull together to get the job done!
Cheers.
Just watching his victory speech on the BBC, in the interests of balance you should probably have David Tennant off to one side saying “Doesn’t he look young?”, but that was one Hëll of a good speech…
Congratulations to President Elect Obama, and let’s hope that you can all pull together to get the job done!
Cheers.
I Guess to finish off the West Wing Scenario…
Secretary of State John McCain
I’m overjoyed that Obama will be our next president, and, more importantly (in my opinion, anyway), that Sarah Palin has not been elected to the second highest office in the nation. But it feels a little bittersweet in the face of reports that California’s Proposition 8, Arizona Proposition 102, and Florida’s Amendment 2 have all passed. Progress is made in the office of the presidency while three states backslide into legal support of discrimination and intolerance. *sigh*
Chuck
I’m overjoyed that Obama will be our next president, and, more importantly (in my opinion, anyway), that Sarah Palin has not been elected to the second highest office in the nation. But it feels a little bittersweet in the face of reports that California’s Proposition 8, Arizona Proposition 102, and Florida’s Amendment 2 have all passed. Progress is made in the office of the presidency while three states backslide into legal support of discrimination and intolerance. *sigh*
Chuck
“Funny. I already am reading excuses to explain why Obama doesn’t succeed (such as the mess he has been handed). I grant you the two wars. Those were deliberate choices by Bush. But the current economic situation is directly tied to Democrat policies”
No, *that* is funny: “I can’t believe the Democrat supporters are already using the previous administration’s mess as a reason he won’t succeed. Bush’s mess is the fault of the previous administration anyway.”
“Funny. I already am reading excuses to explain why Obama doesn’t succeed (such as the mess he has been handed). I grant you the two wars. Those were deliberate choices by Bush. But the current economic situation is directly tied to Democrat policies”
No, *that* is funny: “I can’t believe the Democrat supporters are already using the previous administration’s mess as a reason he won’t succeed. Bush’s mess is the fault of the previous administration anyway.”
Ok, so, shall we play out the West Wing scenario, where the new, young president with little foreign policy experience, calls upon his opponent to fill that vital seat in his cabinet, Secretary of State?
I am afraid that it actually makes sense!
Charlie
I would consider Secretary of State Richard Lugar close enough to the Sorkin ending, just as the deaths were similar but not equivalent.
I would consider Secretary of State Richard Lugar close enough to the Sorkin ending, just as the deaths were similar but not equivalent.
Sorry, Chris,
Didn’t see your post until after I posted mine…
Chuck,
Get over it. You can’t redefine things just to suit your own feelings. Maybe in another 20 years it will work, but when something has been defined as one thing for over 2000 years, you can’t make everyone change their minds in 20. You definitely didn’t change mine, and I am about as tolerant and open minded as you can get.
Charlie
Secretary of State John McCain
Oh God, let’s hope not. I mean, I doubt you’re serious, but let’s hope not all the same.
This is a guy of whom Ezra Klein once wrote “I hold John McCain’s foreign policy in rather low esteem. It is wrong, yes, but just as bad, and maybe more dangerous, it is profoundly immature. It is a foreign policy built upon perceived slights, personal grievances, and pride. It is a foreign policy that would risk great power conflict becausePutin didn’t pass the potatoes quickly enough at last year’s G8 luncheon reception.”
Just because he was able to check his loathing for Obama at the door long enough to give a speech last night doesn’t mean that he can rein himself in whenever he likes, so while he’s clearly a competent Senator he is not somebody you pick up the phone and call when you need somebody to smooth over rocky relations with another country. Good chance that he’d say something to make things worse.
On another note, while this letter is no longer as relevant as it would have been before the election ended I think it gives you a good idea of how long and how much John McCain has disliked the President-Elect:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/07/politics/main1289745.shtml
Secretary of State John McCain
Oh God, let’s hope not. I mean, I doubt you’re serious, but let’s hope not all the same.
This is a guy of whom Ezra Klein once wrote “I hold John McCain’s foreign policy in rather low esteem. It is wrong, yes, but just as bad, and maybe more dangerous, it is profoundly immature. It is a foreign policy built upon perceived slights, personal grievances, and pride. It is a foreign policy that would risk great power conflict becausePutin didn’t pass the potatoes quickly enough at last year’s G8 luncheon reception.”
Just because he was able to check his loathing for Obama at the door long enough to give a speech last night doesn’t mean that he can rein himself in whenever he likes, so while he’s clearly a competent Senator he is not somebody you pick up the phone and call when you need somebody to smooth over rocky relations with another country. Good chance that he’d say something to make things worse.
On another note, while this letter is no longer as relevant as it would have been before the election ended I think it gives you a good idea of how long and how much John McCain has disliked the President-Elect:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/07/politics/main1289745.shtml
Charlie E.: Get over it. You can’t redefine things just to suit your own feelings. Maybe in another 20 years it will work, but when something has been defined as one thing for over 2000 years, you can’t make everyone change their minds in 20. You definitely didn’t change mine, and I am about as tolerant and open minded as you can get.
This has nothing to do with definition.
I really find it bizarre that people keep saying that they’re fighting for the definition of a word. Even my father has made that argument to me. And yet, in 1970, the word ‘arcade’ had nothing to do with video games. The word had been around for a long, long time, it just had nothing to do with video games. It took much less than 20 years for that to change. Words change all the time, yet how often are state amendments passed to keep their definitions from changing?
Within the last few hundred years, marriages in many places had absolutely nothing to do with love. They were arranged. Some communities didn’t even have the parents arrange them, but community leaders or the wealthy. So even the word ‘marriage’ has changed considerably over the last few centuries.
This was never about the definition of the word. This was about how separate-but-equal policies don’t work, they always lead to more discrimination. Even if the California amendment and the Florida one that I voted against didn’t go the right way, it was still worth trying and it is definitely worth lamenting. This is not remotely in “Get over it” territory.
Charlie E.: Get over it. You can’t redefine things just to suit your own feelings. Maybe in another 20 years it will work, but when something has been defined as one thing for over 2000 years, you can’t make everyone change their minds in 20. You definitely didn’t change mine, and I am about as tolerant and open minded as you can get.
This has nothing to do with definition.
I really find it bizarre that people keep saying that they’re fighting for the definition of a word. Even my father has made that argument to me. And yet, in 1970, the word ‘arcade’ had nothing to do with video games. The word had been around for a long, long time, it just had nothing to do with video games. It took much less than 20 years for that to change. Words change all the time, yet how often are state amendments passed to keep their definitions from changing?
Within the last few hundred years, marriages in many places had absolutely nothing to do with love. They were arranged. Some communities didn’t even have the parents arrange them, but community leaders or the wealthy. So even the word ‘marriage’ has changed considerably over the last few centuries.
This was never about the definition of the word. This was about how separate-but-equal policies don’t work, they always lead to more discrimination. Even if the California amendment and the Florida one that I voted against didn’t go the right way, it was still worth trying and it is definitely worth lamenting. This is not remotely in “Get over it” territory.
Charlie, not to pound this too much, but “marriage” HASN’T had the same definition as we Westerners now recognize. It wasn’t until 342 that the Romans outlawed two guys marrying, and even then it didn’t have the same meaning as what we have now. Progress will be made only after the first step is followed by the second and the pattern repeats from there.
Michael Crichton RIP
1942-2008
Also other sad news according to reports Forrest J Ackerman is not long for this world.
Michael Crichton RIP
1942-2008
Also other sad news according to reports Forrest J Ackerman is not long for this world.
Michael Crichton RIP
1942-2008
Westworld is still one of the greatest movies of its genre and The Andromeda Strain as a book or film still has the power to cause chills. The man was a master when he was on top of his game.
Bad time for multi-genre geeks like me. Michael Crichton passes right behind Tony Hillerman and Ackerman is going to be a very all too soon next passing. But oh what wonderful things they left those of us who are still here.
Michael Crichton RIP
1942-2008
Westworld is still one of the greatest movies of its genre and The Andromeda Strain as a book or film still has the power to cause chills. The man was a master when he was on top of his game.
Bad time for multi-genre geeks like me. Michael Crichton passes right behind Tony Hillerman and Ackerman is going to be a very all too soon next passing. But oh what wonderful things they left those of us who are still here.
“Get over it. You can’t redefine things just to suit your own feelings. Maybe in another 20 years it will work, but when something has been defined as one thing for over 2000 years, you can’t make everyone change their minds in 20. You definitely didn’t change mine, and I am about as tolerant and open minded as you can get.”
Seriously? 2000 years? One man and one woman. I guess all those cultures from the past 2000 years that allowed men to marry multiple women were just stretching the definition of a word?
This isn’t about a definition. It’s about discrimination being cultivated and bred right in front of us. To think that on the same day that a minority, of African descent no less, is elected to the highest seat of government for our country, when mere decades ago this same man wouldn’t have been allowed to walk through the same door as his opponent…on that same day, we get several states seeking to embed in their constitutions repressive and oppressive missives about who can and can’t enjoy the public union that is marraige.
It seems we’ve come so far, but have we, really?
My earlier comments were from a time when I saw Obama had just taken California, catapulting him to the top of the electoral votes, but the “popular” vote at the time underneath was still a close 51% to 49%. Yes, it’s a clear win either way, but somebody’s going to quibble about how “close” the margin was, to be sure.
It is hard to overcome a prejudice but it is much harder if not impossible to overcome prejudice.
“To think that on the same day that a minority, of African descent no less, is elected to the highest seat of government for our country, when mere decades ago this same man wouldn’t have been allowed to walk through the same door as his opponent…on that same day, we get several states seeking to embed in their constitutions repressive and oppressive missives about who can and can’t enjoy the public union that is marraige.”
And if that same man walks the walk, and isn’t just an empty politician, he’ll come out and condemn the various anti-gay rights votes. I’ll be waiting for that.
“To think that on the same day that a minority, of African descent no less, is elected to the highest seat of government for our country, when mere decades ago this same man wouldn’t have been allowed to walk through the same door as his opponent…on that same day, we get several states seeking to embed in their constitutions repressive and oppressive missives about who can and can’t enjoy the public union that is marraige.”
And if that same man walks the walk, and isn’t just an empty politician, he’ll come out and condemn the various anti-gay rights votes. I’ll be waiting for that.
“And if that same man walks the walk, and isn’t just an empty politician, he’ll come out and condemn the various anti-gay rights votes. I’ll be waiting for that.”
Don’t hold your breath. He’s danced around that topic several times now. I doubt that he’ll risk the backlash over what he may see as a “minor” issue given the larger problems he’ll be walking into.
“And if that same man walks the walk, and isn’t just an empty politician, he’ll come out and condemn the various anti-gay rights votes. I’ll be waiting for that.”
Don’t hold your breath. He’s danced around that topic several times now. I doubt that he’ll risk the backlash over what he may see as a “minor” issue given the larger problems he’ll be walking into.
One sad part: up here a couple of papers had photos of jubilant people, ostensibly somewhere in Africa, who were hopeful that,with a black in office, the U.S. might finally start giving Africa the aid it needs. Unfortunately, it would appear they haven’t been paying attention. America’s economy is in tatters, and its government is in fiscal hole so deep that, next to it, Project Mohole is as a small roadside pothole. I don’t see them being in any position to bring major aid to anyone else any time soon.
One sad part: up here a couple of papers had photos of jubilant people, ostensibly somewhere in Africa, who were hopeful that,with a black in office, the U.S. might finally start giving Africa the aid it needs. Unfortunately, it would appear they haven’t been paying attention. America’s economy is in tatters, and its government is in fiscal hole so deep that, next to it, Project Mohole is as a small roadside pothole. I don’t see them being in any position to bring major aid to anyone else any time soon.
One sad part: up here a couple of papers had photos of jubilant people, ostensibly somewhere in Africa, who were hopeful that,with a black in office, the U.S. might finally start giving Africa the aid it needs.
The irony being that W has taken sub-Saharan African aid more seriously than any President in living memory. It’s the one place he’s popular. California is discussing naming sewage plants after him, but he’s getting highways named after him in Africa.
And if that same man walks the walk, and isn’t just an empty politician, he’ll come out and condemn the various anti-gay rights votes. I’ll be waiting for that.
A little late to do much good. Prop 8 would have been defeated if it were not overwhelmingly supported by the Black vote (and latino vote, though to a lesser degree). Had Obama made a plea to his Black supporters to not vote for the measure it might (maybe) have made enough of a difference. It isn’t like there was any way it would have cost him CA. But either he genuinely believes that marriage is strictly exclusively for heterosexual couples or he doesn’t but is unwilling to expend any capital on it. Both are unfortunate though to me the latter would be more so.
Considering that Bill Clinton got embroiled in the whole gays in the military thing and it cost him early momentum I don’t think Obama will risk doing the right thing. Unfortunate but not unexpected. Hope I’m wrong.
And if that same man walks the walk, and isn’t just an empty politician, he’ll come out and condemn the various anti-gay rights votes. I’ll be waiting for that.
A little late to do much good. Prop 8 would have been defeated if it were not overwhelmingly supported by the Black vote (and latino vote, though to a lesser degree). Had Obama made a plea to his Black supporters to not vote for the measure it might (maybe) have made enough of a difference. It isn’t like there was any way it would have cost him CA. But either he genuinely believes that marriage is strictly exclusively for heterosexual couples or he doesn’t but is unwilling to expend any capital on it. Both are unfortunate though to me the latter would be more so.
Considering that Bill Clinton got embroiled in the whole gays in the military thing and it cost him early momentum I don’t think Obama will risk doing the right thing. Unfortunate but not unexpected. Hope I’m wrong.
Congrats from the North. It’s especially great that unlike here in Canada, it sounds like voter apathy was *lower* than usual.
I actually wonder if the show 24 helped with the election outcome: thus far the series has had two black Presidents, with the colour being a non-issue. Since the first of them in particular was well liked and his coliour was a non-issue, it might have helped some people get used to the idea of a black President.
Congrats from the North. It’s especially great that unlike here in Canada, it sounds like voter apathy was *lower* than usual.
I actually wonder if the show 24 helped with the election outcome: thus far the series has had two black Presidents, with the colour being a non-issue. Since the first of them in particular was well liked and his coliour was a non-issue, it might have helped some people get used to the idea of a black President.
blindpew: My earlier comments were from a time when I saw Obama had just taken California, catapulting him to the top of the electoral votes, but the “popular” vote at the time underneath was still a close 51% to 49%. Yes, it’s a clear win either way, but somebody’s going to quibble about how “close” the margin was, to be sure.
The final results were 52% to 46%, which is a very big mandate for this country. There won’t be the slightest bit of quibbling about things being close, it wasn’t close at all.
I actually wonder if the show 24 helped with the election outcome: thus far the series has had two black Presidents, with the colour being a non-issue. Since the first of them in particular was well liked and his coliour was a non-issue, it might have helped some people get used to the idea of a black President.
You also have to credit DEEP IMPACT which showed that a black president would preside over the destruction of the eastern seaboard by a comet…ok, maybe not that one. There was Terry Alan Crews in IDIOCRACY…maybe not such a great example either. Ok, Tiny Lister in THE FIFTH ELEMENT. You think anybody would screw with a country who had Tiny Lister as its president? He could invade Vietnam and tell the World he was just settling an old score and the World wouldn’t say šhìŧ.
Actually, Americans have been ready for a black president for quite a while. Colin Powell could have had the job if he’d wanted it.
I actually wonder if the show 24 helped with the election outcome: thus far the series has had two black Presidents, with the colour being a non-issue. Since the first of them in particular was well liked and his coliour was a non-issue, it might have helped some people get used to the idea of a black President.
You also have to credit DEEP IMPACT which showed that a black president would preside over the destruction of the eastern seaboard by a comet…ok, maybe not that one. There was Terry Alan Crews in IDIOCRACY…maybe not such a great example either. Ok, Tiny Lister in THE FIFTH ELEMENT. You think anybody would screw with a country who had Tiny Lister as its president? He could invade Vietnam and tell the World he was just settling an old score and the World wouldn’t say šhìŧ.
Actually, Americans have been ready for a black president for quite a while. Colin Powell could have had the job if he’d wanted it.
Not as a democrat in 2000, and he chose saying condoms make sex safer over keeping the option of running as a republican for president.
Jason M. Bryant: I really find it bizarre that people keep saying that they’re fighting for the definition of a word.
Luigi Novi: Thank you. I just love how, in a country in which something like 80-90% of books are bought by 5% of the population (IIRC), and in which anti-intellectualism and contempt for eduction, intelligence, and knowledge is firmly enshrined in some circles, those intolerant of letting gays be happy, none of whom can maintain a coherent footing in articulating this position in a discussion, all of a sudden become sticklers for vocabulary, as if that’s not a smokescreen for what just boils down to matters of aesthetics and taste.
Jason M. Bryant: I really find it bizarre that people keep saying that they’re fighting for the definition of a word.
Luigi Novi: Thank you. I just love how, in a country in which something like 80-90% of books are bought by 5% of the population (IIRC), and in which anti-intellectualism and contempt for eduction, intelligence, and knowledge is firmly enshrined in some circles, those intolerant of letting gays be happy, none of whom can maintain a coherent footing in articulating this position in a discussion, all of a sudden become sticklers for vocabulary, as if that’s not a smokescreen for what just boils down to matters of aesthetics and taste.
Here’s some pools I’d like to start:
1) How soon before the second asassination attempt? (Especially since the Bush DOJ doesn’t seem interested in prosecuting the first one.)
2) How many blanket pardons will Bush give to his cronies in January before he leaves office? How many in his own administration will he give a pass from any future prosecution for any possible crimes committed in office?
3) How long after the new congress meets before the Republicans threaten to fillibuster legislation? For extra bonus points, how many seconds of TV coverage will the media give to reporting that?
4) How soon after the election will gas hit $4 a gallon again? Y’all do know that lowering before the election is a Republican ploy, right? Reduced demand, increased stockpiles my eye.
4) How soon after the election will gas hit $4 a gallon again? Y’all do know that lowering before the election is a Republican ploy, right? Reduced demand, increased stockpiles my eye.
And the relative strength of the dollar has absolutely nothing to do with it, either, right?
4) How soon after the election will gas hit $4 a gallon again? Y’all do know that lowering before the election is a Republican ploy, right? Reduced demand, increased stockpiles my eye.
And the relative strength of the dollar has absolutely nothing to do with it, either, right?
Shhh!!! Roger, don’t use logic or bring real world facts into this matter. It just messes the arguments up.
~;?)