Back in July, the David family had breakfast during Shore Leave convention with George Takei and Brad Altman, and naturally we discussed the upcoming wedding. They were talking about how they’d had to whittle the invite list from several thousand to two hundred. And I had to ask the question that I”m sure you would have asked: “Are you inviting Shatner?”
“Yes,” said Brad, nodding firmly, and George agreed, adding, “I think it’s time to let the past go.” They could not have been more definitive: the olive branch was being extended, bygones allowed to be bygones, hatchets being buried and every other cliche you’d care to roll out.
The result? The invite, which was sent to Shatner’s manager, was never forwarded to Shatner for whatever reason, and now a video Shatner released in which he excoriates George is getting all kinds of media play.
“George came out. Who cares?” asks Shatner in the video. The answer to that, of course, is the opponents of gay marriage who are circulating e-mails and fliers filled with baseless scare tactics in order to try and push through Proposition 8. A Proposition that would make sure joyous days such as the one Kath and I shared with George, Brad and a couple hundred guests–which could have included William Shatner–will never occur again for anyone who’s gay in California. Those bigots, those jerks, those killjoys…they’re the ones who care, Mr. Shatner.
So that answers your questions: The questions of why George Takei didn’t invite you (he did) and who cares that George is gay (those who want to push through Prop 8). So here’s my question to you:
What are you going to do about it?
PAD
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Are the reasons behind this feud public knowledge? I’m not familiar with all the behind-the-scenes Trek stuff.
Also, what should Shatner do about what? Do you mean campaigning against the proposition, apologizing to George, or something else?
What little respect I had for Shatner was tossed out the window today. What an ášš-hat.
Also, what should Shatner do about what? Do you mean campaigning against the proposition, apologizing to George, or something else?
Yes to the first, yes to the second.
PAD
I honestly think that George should respond in a dignified manner to Shatner, Pasionately, yet Diplomatically tear Shatner’s Manager to shreds, and While Shatner should apologize, so should the Manager PUBLICLY.
Actually, Peter, I am fondly reminded of what you had Uhura and RJ Blaise say about men back on your second volume run on Star Trek and think that it applies to most managers, “cant live with them…can’t kill them”
It’s totally uncalled for, totally petty, and at the same time I feel sorry for the man to be this worked up over…a misplaced invitation? Perceived disproportionate media attention? Not getting a cameo in JJTrek? Whatever it is, it’s not a huge thing, probably not even a significant thing, and he’s obviously unpleasantly moved by it.
I don’t think he understood the possible political ramifications (w/r/t Prop-8), if only because none of this seems to acknowledge a truth outside his own gravity. It’s a small thing he inflicted, and he had to know that no good could come of it. That he felt it necessary or justified or even acceptable…is sad.
It’s totally uncalled for, totally petty, and at the same time I feel sorry for the man to be this worked up over…a misplaced invitation? Perceived disproportionate media attention? Not getting a cameo in JJTrek? Whatever it is, it’s not a huge thing, probably not even a significant thing, and he’s obviously unpleasantly moved by it.
I don’t think he understood the possible political ramifications (w/r/t Prop-8), if only because none of this seems to acknowledge a truth outside his own gravity. It’s a small thing he inflicted, and he had to know that no good could come of it. That he felt it necessary or justified or even acceptable…is sad.
Well you can’t blame Bill. He’s got the … Mad Cow.
Well you can’t blame Bill. He’s got the … Mad Cow.
So how exactly did Shatner’s opening his big mouth turn into a tirade again against those of us who think gay marriage is a bad idea?
Ignoring the PAD tirade, it is clear that Shatner is an idiot. Whether he was invited or not is a matter between him and George, not one that should ever be posted on his website. While I clearly am not for gay marriage, to say that George should have stayed in the closet is also ridiculous. While I may disagree strongly with his lifestyle choice (because of my certainty that it is harmful to him, not just society), it does nothing good to keep it hidden.
Bottom line: William Shatner just confirmed again what most of us figured out a long time ago — he really does think (or has come to think) the universe revolves around him. (Either that or he is getting quite grouchy in his old age.)
Iowa Jim
Let’s just cut to the chase. Even if he hadn’t been invited, why the hëll should it matter enough for Shatner to choose to post a public rant about it? I mean, they worked together on a tv show 40 years ago. The last Trek movie they were in was over a decade ago. They’ve never claimed to be close friends. So why, other than raw ego, should Shatner expect an invite to a non-public ceremony or feel slighted for thinking he hadn’t been invited? I certainly wouldn’t if I were in his relative position to a couple.
Let’s just cut to the chase. Even if he hadn’t been invited, why the hëll should it matter enough for Shatner to choose to post a public rant about it? I mean, they worked together on a tv show 40 years ago. The last Trek movie they were in was over a decade ago. They’ve never claimed to be close friends. So why, other than raw ego, should Shatner expect an invite to a non-public ceremony or feel slighted for thinking he hadn’t been invited? I certainly wouldn’t if I were in his relative position to a couple.
William Shatner just confirmed again what most of us figured out a long time ago — he really does think (or has come to think) the universe revolves around him. (Either that or he is getting quite grouchy in his old age.)
Between his ego being shattered at not being invited to star in the new Trek prequel, and now this reaction, I’m pretty certain it’s the former.
William Shatner just confirmed again what most of us figured out a long time ago — he really does think (or has come to think) the universe revolves around him. (Either that or he is getting quite grouchy in his old age.)
Between his ego being shattered at not being invited to star in the new Trek prequel, and now this reaction, I’m pretty certain it’s the former.
“(because of my certainty that it is harmful to him, not just society)”
It’s so good that you know what is best for us better than we do, Iowa Jim.
You’re in luck, though. Despite my certainty that your brand of religion is harmful to you and to society, I don’t believe in forbidding you from doing whatever you want to yourself in your chosen Christian lifestyle.
I saw the Shatner thing in 2 different newspapers, and on CNN, and well here is a quote:
” Shatner continued. “Obviously, hiding his homosexuality – talk about festering and not living the truth of your life and feeling badly about yourself – and being fearful somebody would find out about this terrible, terrible secret, so he thought.”
“Finally at the age of, I think, 70, he decides to come out of the closet and say, ‘I’m gay.’ Like, who cares? Be gay. Don’t be gay. That’s up to you, George,” Shatner said.
To me, besides the fact this was a horrendous ramble, it seemed to me like Shatner was more annoyed that George didn’t come out of the closet sooner, and that now in this day and age, was saying: “whats the big deal.”
I think for that aspect, Shatner just didn’t word that all too clearly.
I saw the Shatner thing in 2 different newspapers, and on CNN, and well here is a quote:
” Shatner continued. “Obviously, hiding his homosexuality – talk about festering and not living the truth of your life and feeling badly about yourself – and being fearful somebody would find out about this terrible, terrible secret, so he thought.”
“Finally at the age of, I think, 70, he decides to come out of the closet and say, ‘I’m gay.’ Like, who cares? Be gay. Don’t be gay. That’s up to you, George,” Shatner said.
To me, besides the fact this was a horrendous ramble, it seemed to me like Shatner was more annoyed that George didn’t come out of the closet sooner, and that now in this day and age, was saying: “whats the big deal.”
I think for that aspect, Shatner just didn’t word that all too clearly.
Charles F. Waldo: I honestly think that George should respond in a dignified manner to Shatner, Pasionately, yet Diplomatically tear Shatner’s Manager to shreds, and While Shatner should apologize, so should the Manager PUBLICLY.
Luigi Novi: Well, Takei did indeed do that first part, as seen at: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PEOPLE_WILLIAM_SHATNER?SITE=KPUA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Iowa Jim: …to say that George should have stayed in the closet is also ridiculous.
Luigi Novi: He didn’t actually say or imply that, as Michaeljjt pointed out above.
Charles F. Waldo: I honestly think that George should respond in a dignified manner to Shatner, Pasionately, yet Diplomatically tear Shatner’s Manager to shreds, and While Shatner should apologize, so should the Manager PUBLICLY.
Luigi Novi: Well, Takei did indeed do that first part, as seen at: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PEOPLE_WILLIAM_SHATNER?SITE=KPUA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Iowa Jim: …to say that George should have stayed in the closet is also ridiculous.
Luigi Novi: He didn’t actually say or imply that, as Michaeljjt pointed out above.
My impression was that Mr Shatner thought Mr Takai should have “come-out” earlier, rather than keep it secret an dlive with the stress of keeping such a secret. I could be wrong.
What I want to know is, did Takei and his partner invite Leonard Nimoy to the wedding and if so, did he show up?
People of course always mention Shatner but Nimoy gave a bit of the cold shoulder too, and he always seems to be left out of the confrontations (cause admittedly the other 4 have always said they has better relationships with him, but also not as friendly).
At the same time, you’d think after 40 years of working on and off together, even though they may not have the best relationship, they have better ways of getting in touch with each other than through managers, agents, and 2nd parties.
George should have asked Mr. Nimoy for Shatner’s phone number if he didn’t have it.
What I want to know is, did Takei and his partner invite Leonard Nimoy to the wedding and if so, did he show up?
People of course always mention Shatner but Nimoy gave a bit of the cold shoulder too, and he always seems to be left out of the confrontations (cause admittedly the other 4 have always said they has better relationships with him, but also not as friendly).
At the same time, you’d think after 40 years of working on and off together, even though they may not have the best relationship, they have better ways of getting in touch with each other than through managers, agents, and 2nd parties.
George should have asked Mr. Nimoy for Shatner’s phone number if he didn’t have it.
If we make allowances for McCain being a dottering old fool, then we probably should make the same for Shatner, who’s even older. By the time my grandmother hit 70, she didn’t hold back an opinion, ever, as if making up for all the years she did. Perhaps that’s a more universal trait. But Shatner’s done volumes of public whining over the years, it’s nothing new. Make the public apology, Bill, and stop making us believe your reputation. Just because George’s relationships have lasted longer than yours is no reason to trash him.
Just looking at the “George came out. Who cares?” comment and reading nothing further, I would think that it is sokmething of a “good” thing. It would appear, to me at least, that homosexuality is such a non-issue to B.S. that it wasn’t worth making a big deal out of.
Jim
Just looking at the “George came out. Who cares?” comment and reading nothing further, I would think that it is sokmething of a “good” thing. It would appear, to me at least, that homosexuality is such a non-issue to B.S. that it wasn’t worth making a big deal out of.
Jim
For what it’s worth – which I think is probably very little – it seems somewhat daft to me too that anyone would send a wedding invite through the intended recipients manager.
“George came out. Who cares?” also tends to sum up my own reactions to anyone saying they are gay… In all honesty, as a straight guy there are only ever two scenarios in which I care about what floats another person’s boat; if he fancies me or if I fancy her. (Been there, done that, for both options, survived both with friendships reasonably intact). I think there is a tendency these days on a number of issues, not just gay ones, to perceive insult in neutrality, or in anything less than enthusiastic support. I think that is slightly daft too.
Or, in other words, “Bill Shatner said something about George Takei. Who cares?”
Cheers.
For what it’s worth – which I think is probably very little – it seems somewhat daft to me too that anyone would send a wedding invite through the intended recipients manager.
“George came out. Who cares?” also tends to sum up my own reactions to anyone saying they are gay… In all honesty, as a straight guy there are only ever two scenarios in which I care about what floats another person’s boat; if he fancies me or if I fancy her. (Been there, done that, for both options, survived both with friendships reasonably intact). I think there is a tendency these days on a number of issues, not just gay ones, to perceive insult in neutrality, or in anything less than enthusiastic support. I think that is slightly daft too.
Or, in other words, “Bill Shatner said something about George Takei. Who cares?”
Cheers.
Taking into consideration of PAD’s comment, I have to assume there’s more behind Shatner’s comments.
Yes we could assume Shatner was gracious when he said “George came out, who cares?”, by assuming he meant who cares enough about homosexuality to warrant a strong reaction. IE: Straight, gay, big deal.
But Shatner could have also implied “Who cares about George”. A simple statement could be loaded with a giant backhanded slap if you know the private particulars.
Once again, considering PAD’s rant and PAD’s friendship with Mr. Takei, I’m betting there’s much much more to even with my limited Trek knowledge. Shatner should be ashamed of himself.
Taking into consideration of PAD’s comment, I have to assume there’s more behind Shatner’s comments.
Yes we could assume Shatner was gracious when he said “George came out, who cares?”, by assuming he meant who cares enough about homosexuality to warrant a strong reaction. IE: Straight, gay, big deal.
But Shatner could have also implied “Who cares about George”. A simple statement could be loaded with a giant backhanded slap if you know the private particulars.
Once again, considering PAD’s rant and PAD’s friendship with Mr. Takei, I’m betting there’s much much more to even with my limited Trek knowledge. Shatner should be ashamed of himself.
“By assuming he meant who cares enough about homosexuality…”
That should have read as:
he meant who shouldn’t care enough about homosexuality. Since Prop8 does care, when they shouldn’t.
🙂
“By assuming he meant who cares enough about homosexuality…”
That should have read as:
he meant who shouldn’t care enough about homosexuality. Since Prop8 does care, when they shouldn’t.
🙂
Leonard Nimoy was indeed invited and, in fact, RSVP’d that he’d be coming. A last minute scheduling conflict precluded his being able to attend.
PAD
Get a life, Kirk.
Get a life, Kirk.
I hope there will come a day when someone’s sexual orientation will be a “who cares” thing. Unfortunately we’re not there yet. Society still cares, parents still freak out when they discover their kids are gay, in most places gay couples still aren’t able to make the same public gestures of affection straight couples take for granted.
I don’t perceive an insult in neutrality, but neither do I see it as a great favor.
I hope there will come a day when someone’s sexual orientation will be a “who cares” thing. Unfortunately we’re not there yet. Society still cares, parents still freak out when they discover their kids are gay, in most places gay couples still aren’t able to make the same public gestures of affection straight couples take for granted.
I don’t perceive an insult in neutrality, but neither do I see it as a great favor.
Maybe Shatner needs a new manager.
However, I do wonder why George sent the invite through his manager rather than directly, unless that is standard Hollywood procedure.
Maybe Shatner needs a new manager.
However, I do wonder why George sent the invite through his manager rather than directly, unless that is standard Hollywood procedure.
I’m with you, Rene. The world will be a better place when “I’m gay” gets the same reaction as “I’m straight.”
I am made equally uncomfortable by any combination of people snogging next to me in a line.
Susan, that’s a bit harsh given that Shatner’s last wife committed suicide.
I’m with you, Rene. The world will be a better place when “I’m gay” gets the same reaction as “I’m straight.”
I am made equally uncomfortable by any combination of people snogging next to me in a line.
Susan, that’s a bit harsh given that Shatner’s last wife committed suicide.
I’d be hurt if someone I thought I had gotten over quite a bit of animosity with to come back out as friends didn’t invite me to their wedding. It would make it seem like all the talk of “being past it” seem hollow.
It may not be the case, but it’s not his fault that he didn’t know he was invited.
I think by saying something about it he’s showing that it was actually important to him.
Perhaps if Shatner had read George’s book (or for that matter, some of the other books written by his former co-stars) he might have understood the reasons for their long-standing annoyance.
As for the his not appearing in the upcoming Star Trek film, what Shatner seems to forget is that J.J. Abrams has gone on record as saying a scene had been written for him but Shatner said doing a cameo didn’t interest to him. And considering Kirk was killed off in a previous film, it could have been a stretch to bring him back. And for anyone who fels the need to point out that Shatner brought his character back in a series of novels, please don’t. That’s really a side issue.
Perhaps if Shatner had read George’s book (or for that matter, some of the other books written by his former co-stars) he might have understood the reasons for their long-standing annoyance.
As for the his not appearing in the upcoming Star Trek film, what Shatner seems to forget is that J.J. Abrams has gone on record as saying a scene had been written for him but Shatner said doing a cameo didn’t interest to him. And considering Kirk was killed off in a previous film, it could have been a stretch to bring him back. And for anyone who fels the need to point out that Shatner brought his character back in a series of novels, please don’t. That’s really a side issue.
Did anyone record “Entertainment Tonight” last night? They apparently did a piece on the whole thing, including footage from George’s wedding, and Kath, Harlan and Susan Ellison and I are all visible.
PAD
Did anyone record “Entertainment Tonight” last night? They apparently did a piece on the whole thing, including footage from George’s wedding, and Kath, Harlan and Susan Ellison and I are all visible.
PAD
Posted by Rene
Bill Shatner and Iowa Jim
Separated at birth?
Bill Shatner and Iowa Jim
Separated at birth?
“Finally at the age of, I think, 70, he decides to come out of the closet…”
Yeah, Billy, but George has been out for quite some time. Where has your head been…up your ášš?
Maybe it was pictures of Ellison at the event that set him off. Didn’t paramount use threats of letting him write Kirk’s death as a negotiating tool against him in negotiating his movie fees?
Maybe it was pictures of Ellison at the event that set him off. Didn’t paramount use threats of letting him write Kirk’s death as a negotiating tool against him in negotiating his movie fees?