Apparently John McCain’s campaign manager is contending that Palin is being shielded from the media, not because she can’t handle an interview, but because they’re gonna be mean to her:
“Why would we want to throw Sarah Palin into a cycle of piranhas called the news media that have nothing better to ask questions about than her personal life and her children?” he asked. “So until at which point in time we feel like the news media is going to treat her with some level of respect and deference, I think it would be foolhardy to put her out into that kind of environment,” he said.
Three things occur to me:
1) If McCain’s people were taking this position with a male candidate, the perception would be that he’s weak and inept. So McCain’s people are banking on the concept that her being a woman will preclude that criticism, because anyone who says that will be tagged as being insulting and anti-feminist.
2) This sounds unbelievably patronizing to her and monumentally arrogant to the media. They’re saying she can’t handle tough questions, or at least shouldn’t have to, and they are endeavoring to dictate terms as to how the media has to treat her in order to rate an interview.
3) Someone who needs this much handling and protection doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in contemplating her being toe-to-toe with various foreign dictators and strong men, particularly if a stilled heartbeat thrusts her into the presidency anytime after January 2009. Golda Meir didn’t need insulation. Neither did Margaret Thatcher, to whom Palin has ludicrously been compared. Well…NOW Thatcher needs insulation, because she has dementia. So basically Sarah Palin needs as much protection as a former world leader who has trouble recalling her husband is dead. Make of that what you will.
PAD
• 
“…but if it were Mr S Palin, rather than Mrs S Palin – would there still be the same remarks regarding the number of children, special needs child, etc?”
Well, that depends. If Mr. S Palin said, “I firmly believe my wife should never use birth control, and even though we learned early on that the child had Downs Syndrome, I insisted she bring the child to term,” then he would probably be pilloried. After all, where does someone else get off telling a woman what to do with her body?
Unless, of course, someone on the Supreme Court does so. Then I am sure Sarah Palin would be fine with it.
PAD
Men don’t breast feed.
And where both parents are present, I understand that the first months and years of life and the relationship between the mother and child are considered crucial to the child’s development.
As far as Palin is concerned, I have hardly heard anything at all about the number of children she has. I have, however heard about the fact that she has a four-month-old with special needs, and yes, that is relevant. If she’s going to be a hands-off VP, it might not be a big deal, but if the trend that has been developing with regard to giving VP’s larger amounts of responsibility, even if Palin’s would be the same amount as Cheney’s, then yes, having such a child would be an issue. And if McCain is incapacitated or dies in office, then it’ll be an even larger one. I’d feel the same way if it were Hilary with the same child.
Mr. S. Palin likely would not have been picked for this ticket, being seen as a prototypical white republican governor (who probably told his wife she had to have the Down’s baby no matter what).
Luigi: Men don’t breast feed.
Well, lots of working families deal with that. Many working moms breast feed their kids plenty, some even store it at night to be used during the day. I’ve even heard one story that Palin breast fed her a baby while heading a meeting as Mayor of Wasilla.
I don’t think breast feeding really changes the issue.
“Men don’t breast feed.”
No, they don’t. They can, however give expressed breast milk from a bottle. How do you think other working mothers/studying mothers keep breast feeding going? Pump and store in the fridge.
“I don’t think breast feeding really changes the issue.”
It seems to confuse some men though. That, and possibly the thought of women being anything other than barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen…
The latest from Fact Check.
“False Internet claims and rumors fly about McCain’s running mate.
Summary
We’ve been flooded for the past few days with queries about dubious Internet postings and mass e-mail messages making claims about McCain’s running mate, Gov. Palin. We find that many are completely false, or misleading.
*Palin did not cut funding for special needs education in Alaska by 62 percent. She didn’t cut it at all. In fact, she tripled per-pupil funding over just three years.
*She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a “What if?” question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin’s first term.
*She was never a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a group that wants Alaskans to vote on whether they wish to secede from the United States. She’s been registered as a Republican since May 1982.
*Palin never endorsed or supported Pat Buchanan for president. She once wore a Buchanan button as a “courtesty” when he visited Wasilla, but shortly afterward she was appointed to co-chair of the campaign of Steve Forbes in the state.
*Palin has not pushed for teaching creationism in Alaska’s schools. She has said that students should be allowed to “debate both sides” of the evolution question, but she also said creationism “doesn’t have to be part of the curriculum.”
*A few of these claims were included in a chain e-mail by a woman named Anne Kilkenny. We’ll be looking into other charges in that e-mail for a future story. For more explanation of the bullet points above, please read the Analysis.”
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html
As far as Palin is concerned, I have hardly heard anything at all about the number of children she has. I have, however heard about the fact that she has a four-month-old with special needs, and yes, that is relevant. If she’s going to be a hands-off VP, it might not be a big deal, but if the trend that has been developing with regard to giving VP’s larger amounts of responsibility, even if Palin’s would be the same amount as Cheney’s, then yes, having such a child would be an issue. And if McCain is incapacitated or dies in office, then it’ll be an even larger one. I’d feel the same way if it were Hilary with the same child.
I’m going to take a guess here that the infant children of the President and/or Vice president of the United States are well taken care of. Jackie Kennedy gave birth to John Jr only 2 weeks after JFK was elected. I don’t recall her pregnancy or having a young daughter being an issue during the campaign and after his birth it didn’t stop her from traveling the world and hosting dignitaries from all over. Nor have I seen anything that indicated people felt JFK should not run again when she later gave birth to their second son, Patrick, who died a few days later.
Near as I can tell, both John and Caroline thrived as children in the White House. These are not single parents holding down two jobs with no help. Palin and crew would be fine, I think.
There are lots of good reasons to not want her in the White House, depending on one’s politics, but I don’t think concern for her kids is a very good one. If it is it will disqualify a lot of good talent.
AnthonyX reads foreign newspaper results and blames the US MSM. How droll.
And his consistent spelling of center as ‘centre’ indicates to me he is not even American.
All opinions are welcome, of course.
“And his consistent spelling of center as ‘centre’ indicates to me he is not even American.”
Or from Danville, Kentucky or Central Pennsylvania.
~8?)`
I like factcheck.org, but I disagree with how they summarized the book banning incident. One of the good things about facktcheck.org is that they have more details after the summaries. I suggest everyone go to the link that Jerry provided and make up their own mind about whether the book banning claim is reasonable. I think the full analysis brings up some good points, but also points out some additional questionable stuff.
Posted by Rene at September 8, 2008 05:04 PM
“I’ll admit that it’s shocking, how Obama’s half-brother is living. But helping an adult that doesn’t want to be helped (if that is the case here) is harder than it looks. I know that from personal experience with MY brother. Still, that Obama only met his half-brother twice, it doesn’t look good.”
Rene, if his brother grew up and lived in convenient travelling didtance, I might wonder. However, given the general consensus is family should be off limits, none of our business.
Jason M. Bryant: Well, lots of working families deal with that. Many working moms breast feed their kids plenty, some even store it at night to be used during the day. I’ve even heard one story that Palin breast fed her a baby while heading a meeting as Mayor of Wasilla.
Megan: No, they don’t. They can, however give expressed breast milk from a bottle. How do you think other working mothers/studying mothers keep breast feeding going? Pump and store in the fridge.
Luigi Novi: Perhaps you’re right. I allow for the possibility that it can be done (since, as a general rule, I tend toward possibilities rather than knee-jerk dismissal), but I do think the issue should be explored. Thanks you both for your input.
Jerry Chandler: The latest from Fact Check…
Luigi Novi: Jerry, thanks for looking this up and relaying the info. A few responses to some of these:
She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a “What if?” question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin’s first term.
The clarification is less dámņìņg, but factcheck says that Palin asked hypothetical questions “What would your response be if I asked you to remove some books from the collection?” I’d be curious to know more about what Palin’s intent was. I’d hope that she’d want to simply test the librarian’s resolve to uphold the First Amendment, but factcheck itself says, “Palin initially volunteer[ed] the episode as an example of discussions with city employees about following her administration’s agenda.” This is not very reassuring, and I’d like to know what the site means when it says that she “initially” volunteered this. Did Palin realize that she revealed herself as a potential censor, and then backpedal from it? If so, this might serve to confirm the questions about her as a censor.
She was never a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a group that wants Alaskans to vote on whether they wish to secede from the United States. She’s been registered as a Republican since May 1982.
I believe this has already been reported, in that her husband was a member, and not her. However, at the 2008 Alaska Independence Party Convention, she said to that party, “I’m delighted to welcome you”, and “Keep up the good work”. The head that party said, “The fires of hëll are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government.” Compare this to how Obama was attacked for his association for Reverend Wright, who made similar comments, even after Obama publicly denounced Wright and distanced himself from him. Where has the equivalent criticism of Palin been?
Palin has not pushed for teaching creationism in Alaska’s schools. She has said that students should be allowed to “debate both sides” of the evolution question, but she also said creationism “doesn’t have to be part of the curriculum.”
That last phrase is a bit reassuring, but when she says “debate both sides”, I’d like to know if she means in a class dedicated to discussing social controversies, like social studies, history, debating class, etc., or in a science class.
Bill Mulligan: Jackie Kennedy gave birth to John Jr only 2 weeks after JFK was elected. I don’t recall her pregnancy or having a young daughter being an issue during the campaign and after his birth it didn’t stop her from traveling the world and hosting dignitaries from all over.
Luigi Novi: I wasn’t talking about First Spouses. I was talking about office holders.
Alan Coil: [AnthonyX’s] consistent spelling of center as ‘centre’ indicates to me he is not even American. All opinions are welcome, of course.
Luigi Novi: Putting aside the fact that I’ve seen “theater” spelled as “theatre” in the U.S., and that we all sometimes make spelling errors, if all opinions are welcome, then why bring up the notion of his not being American? I don’t recall you bringing this up with Micha, who’s from Israel, or El hombre Malo, who’s from Spain. Why is this?
“I allow for the possibility that it can be done”:
Of course it can.
I’m Canadian. And as a Canadian who cannot vote, I would not prefer Mr. Obama as President.
Why?
1) His protectionism, so much so, that someone in his campaign contacted the Canadian embassy to say, paraphrasing(obviously) “don’t worry we will not be that bad”. Which brings about trust issues
2) His stance on the military. I was for orginally, still am and will debate anyone on the merits of the Iraq war. Americans do good work and the rest of the world, whether they think so or not, need you.
That is all. I approve of this message.
And have we even begun to discuss the bias in the comics industry!
Luthor becoming president…..fair and balanced indeed!
[AnthonyX’s] consistent spelling of center as ‘centre’ indicates to me he is not even American.
If we allow this sort of thing it won’t be long before our kids are saying “Leftenant”. Is that the kind of America you want?
AnthonyX:1) His protectionism, so much so, that someone in his campaign contacted the Canadian embassy to say, paraphrasing(obviously) “don’t worry we will not be that bad”. Which brings about trust issues
2) His stance on the military. I was for orginally, still am and will debate anyone on the merits of the Iraq war. Americans do good work and the rest of the world, whether they think so or not, need you.
Thank you! *That’s* stuff worth debating! While I don’t agree with these points, I can see where you’re coming from and see that these things are worth talking about. When you’re talking about how horrible it is that the media is going to Alaska or how terrible it is that Obama met some bad people once, that’s garbage. When you talk about stuff like this, it becomes a serious discussion.
Please feel free to bring up the stuff that really bothers you. It’s productive and much more interesting.
“Is that the kind of America you want?”
No. I want the type of America where they pronounce the word “charade” char-odd rather than char-aid.
What can I say? I’m a Cary Grant fan.
“If we allow this sort of thing it won’t be long before our kids are saying “Leftenant”.”
Oi… are you having a go at the Commonwealth Countries?
🙂
The comic book industry indeed has a strong leftist bias. The only thing I disagree with is when Conservatives say that as if it were a recent development (“The left has infiltrated comics! Outrage! Remember the good old days when comics were pure escapism?”)
At least since the 1970s, superhero comics have been mostly liberal. Roy Thomas, Steve Englehart, Steve Gerber, Denny O’Neill, Chris Claremont, Alan Moore, all of them liberals, all of them writing political stories. Even Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were extremely liberal in civil rights issues (even though they were anti-communist).
It’s been that way for far longer than that, Rene. Go find the first Superman stories and look at the politics in them some time.
Yeah, anyone remember Richard Nixon blowing out his brains on the White House lawn right in front of Captain America?
The person who writes Fables is very right wing. In the beginning it was interesting and fun, but at a certain point it started harming the stories.
Sci-Fi writers Larry Niven or Jerry Pournel seem to be right wing. In two of their books I’ve read they refer to how the democrats have neglected the space program and nuclear developmemt, and how the soviets are going strong. They voice hope that things will improve now that Regan was elected. It’s fun to read.
Heinlein is something beyond right or left. But he’s fun to read because of his challenging political opinion.
Ursula La-Guin seems to be left. Sometimes its good one or two times it was a little too much.
“I don’t recall you bringing this up with Micha, who’s from Israel”
He is!? I mean, I am!? That’s terrible.
Actually, I have a US passport and am entitled to vote. I voted in the previous elections after a lot of moral doubts, but these elections I decided it wasn’t right for me to vote in the US elections even if it is legal. I also don’t have the patience to research the candidates and follow all the news in enough detail to make an informed decision.
Obama seems like a sensible thinking man. I am worried about his inexperience. But I think if you compare him to Palin her inexperience is more glaring + he did make sure to take a VP who will complement his inexperience.
I think it is unwise of democrats to demonize Palin in order tp disagree with her opinions or with McCain’s decision to pick her. Obama showed clasas when he criticized the focus on her daughter, but he perhaps should show more leadership in the way she’s dealt with by democrats.
What I’m not seeing here is any mention of Palin’s husband. Does he work, or is he a house husband? If he’s home, and committed to his kids, then I don’t have as much trouble with her on the campaign trail (outside of politics). But if he’s out doing a career, too, then as a mother I think her family is enough of a wreck that her place is at home. The last thing that family needs is more disruption. How self-centered and narcissistic and just plain greedy of her to put her children second to her ambitions. It shows her children are objects to her, not people. Is it that her disabled child isn’t a problem, because after all, he’s retarded, so it won’t affect him anyway?
I think her move is an insult to all those women who have those same issues, but do not have any help from spouses, for various reasons. It’s an insult to those mothers who, especially with funding cuts, truly struggle with their disabled children, when such simple things as seizure helmets ($50), leg splints ($300), or wheelchairs are NOT covered by most insurance companies, and the costs make your head spin (a child’s wheelchair can cost several thousand dollars. Try a large-size carseat for a child that can’t sit up. And then they get outgrown), to those women who have lost yet another job because their kid was home sick again, or had another surgery, or they have to go to the school. Down’s can run the gamut from mildly impaired to profoundly retarded and autistic, and it’s not something intervention can change much. Can she predict what level her child will be, and if he’s the latter, are we going to see him as part of the family, rolling on the floor and tantrumming, or will he be hidden away, “off limits” to the media? What is her take on the severely behaviorally disturbed? She’s been mum on these issues, mostly because I don’t think she knows them.
My foster sons don’t have mobility issues, but where’s Palin when the bus doesn’t show? Will she lose her job for being late again? How can she learn how to handle Down’s Syndrome, when she’s trying to learn international relations? Who’s staying with the kids when they’re sick? A nanny?
Ignoring the fact I think her politics belong up there with Mao and Mussolini, as a mother I will continue to point my finger at a woman who glorifies herself as the perfect mother whose daughter was chosen for virgin birth (the only kind, when you abstain), but in reality puts herself and her ambition above her family.
Posted by: AnthonyX at September 8, 2008 11:17 PM
I’m Canadian. And as a Canadian who cannot vote, I would not prefer Mr. Obama as President.
Why?
1) His protectionism, so much so, that someone in his campaign contacted the Canadian embassy to say, paraphrasing(obviously) “don’t worry we will not be that bad”. Which brings about trust issues
2) His stance on the military. I was for orginally, still am and will debate anyone on the merits of the Iraq war. Americans do good work and the rest of the world, whether they think so or not, need you.
That is all. I approve of this message.
As a Canadian who CAN vote in this election and is going to vote for Obama (unless Obama does something to really upset me between now and then), I say this:
Hawks like AnthonyX do not speak for the majority of Canadians.
That is all.
Alan Coil wrote:
Does the writer have it in for Sally Plain? Maybe. I do. She is evil.
WOW! That is mind boggling. She is evil? What gave it away? Was it her cloven hooves? Her tail? Her horns? She may be misguided on some things, but evil? Please.
Looks like you forgot to take your medication this moring.
What are you talking about? Do you mean protectionism like how McCain won’t crack down on you for sneaking across the border and lowering US wages by taking farmwork for $50/hour?
What I’m not seeing here is any mention of Palin’s husband.
Well, we’re not supposed to talk about her family, don’tcha know?
But then, the GOP doesn’t want you to know things like the fact he was the one who was a member of the Alaska Independence Party, a secessionist group.
Posted by: Scott at September 9, 2008 08:20 AM
Alan Coil wrote:
Does the writer have it in for Sally Plain? Maybe. I do. She is evil.
WOW! That is mind boggling. She is evil? What gave it away? Was it her cloven hooves? Her tail? Her horns? She may be misguided on some things, but evil? Please.
Okay, how about this? She is a mean-spirited, ethically deficient, bìŧçh. She’s a liar (see “Bridge to Nowhere” for one example). She thinks that women who get raped should be forced to bear the offspring of the men who victimized them. She has called the Iraq War “a task that is from God”, meaning that she doesn’t really care all that much about the death that has resulted from the invasion because to her all of it’s justified.
“Evil” is a strong word, yes. But I have no trouble thinking of her as “one of the bad guys”, because she is.
In one Hulk annual written by PAD sometime around 1990 or 1991, the grey Hulk said that for all we know Hitler might’ve had great intentions, but it didn’t really matter. The result was the same as if he’d had evil intentions: “stiffs”.
I agree with that statement. So I don’t really care whether Palin’s misguided or not, because intentions don’t count for squat.
Well, it’s a wonder you never felt like demonstrating your own point about backlashes. Your arbitrary hate of John Edwards — which never referred to any justification — only obscured his sociopathic-feeding on his wife. You would have done more here to undercut Edwards’s credibility by not acting on your irrational hate at all, since all you did was summon and back-off from backlashes.
Well, we’re not supposed to talk about her family, don’tcha know?
But then, the GOP doesn’t want you to know things like the fact he was the one who was a member of the Alaska Independence Party, a secessionist group.
Obama is a member of the GOP? No wonder some Democrats are ignoring his call to lay off the family.
The democratic party isn’t a top-down authoritarian-hierarchy like the republican party.
Everyone look at Bill deny republicans have been circling the wagons around Palin’s personal life.
Obama is a member of the GOP? No wonder some Democrats are ignoring his call to lay off the family.
Not sure where you got that from, Bill. We were talking about Sarah Palin’s husband. 🙂
If we allow this sort of thing it won’t be long before our kids are saying “Leftenant”. Is that the kind of America you want?
KNEEL BEFORE ZED!
On a more serious note, I certainly hope that the national conversation starts getting steered more towards issues. However, I’m a bit worried that the backlash against some of the Palin stories will make it difficult for The Media (™ Jerome Maida) to pursue any investigation, even the justified ones. Others have already brought up the example that her “Bridge to Nowhere” statement is pretty much a bald-faced lie. That sort of fact-checking needs to be done a lot more often.
TWL
Heinlein was a Libertarian, from what I’ve heard. Pournelle started as one, and then just became more and more Conservative as he grew older. Larry Niven I think is more of a centrist than anything else (and next to his buddy Pournelle he is a leftie!)
I didn’t read all there is to read of Fables. I stopped at the 20s or 30s. Is the writer so Conservative as all that? The only right-wing bit I remember from the first issues was a pro-Israel comment about the world “blaming the victims”. And I don’t think the comment was so out of line. Did he turn the comic more Conservative later?
Let’s hope the debates will steer the conversation in that direction.
I think Obama would rather we not spend much time on her husband either. Strictly speaking, the AIP isn’t a secessionist group–I think they want Alaska’s status put up for a vote. Seems pretty wonky to me and the founder was a real nutcase but I’m not sure I’d write off all the members as hardcore crazy–they did win the governorship in 1990 with Walter Hickel, who was no kook (he famously was fired from his position as Secretary of the Interior over his environmentalism and a letter he wrote to Nixon critical of the Vietnam war and the Kent State massacre).
Look, obviously Obama can’t control the nutty elements of his base, people who probably care less about him winning than they do displaying every possible manifestation of their rotten personalities. McCain made a surprising choice for VP and gave an average at best speech and what do we see in the headlines today?–Michael Luo and Jeff Zeleny report that the Obama campaign is falling short of the fundraising needed to make up for not accepting federal funds. McCain meanwhile raised 5 million in 5 hours…in Chicago! Gallup has McCain winning among independents 52% to 37%. That a big honking jump. ABC News–“McCain Campaign Crowds Grow Exponentially” (Didn’t realize Robert Duvall was a big Palin fan. Wonder how that will play in Hollywood?).
Now while all these will cause the nervous Nellies in the party to run around with their hands in the air (Huffington Post’s Adam McKay– “We’re Gonna Frickin’ Lose this Thing”) calmer heads should prevail. This is the moment that will tell if Obama has what it takes. Hillary was a lot more formidable and he overcame setbacks there that would have sunk lesser campaigns. He obviously can’t count on others in the party to smarten up, he needs to take control of this thing himself. Stop letting it be framed as Palin vs Obama; it diminishes him. Start playing up Biden; from the vanishing act he’s pulled you’d think HE was the one who should be compared to Eagleton. For starters, who came up with the banner that has a blue background with OBAMA in white and BIDEN in a lighter shade of blue? It’s like he’s fading into the background. Get him out there, he has a good story to tell, let him pound away on foreign policy as a contrast to Palin.
Unless there is some really good smoking gun yet to be found about Palin it looks like the overkill on her will turn out to be one of the great political blunders of the race.
What of the reaction to the never read American Power by Chuck Dixon? Which was literally judged by it cover?
Hi Rene. You are right about “Liberals” being at the helm for along time. However, being a Liberal then and being one now is a completely different kettle of fish. I can say that Comics in the 50’s and 60’s had at the very least a Patriotic stance. Which is now poo pooed.
I believe it was Grant Morrison or Alan Moore who said something to the effect of”…if you lived thru the Thatcher years you would think like me to…” which is fair.
Re: Complaint # 1 Obamas protectionism. His campaign did not contact the American embassy that story was rebuffed. So he still is very protectionist!
Yes Rob Brown is right. Obama would win an election in Canada about 95% to 5%.
Interesting point from Micha on how Fables writers assumed righty politics harms the stories…..don’t you think that could happen from the other side…
example…Using the Hatemonger as a villain in his Punisher to discuss the illegal immigration issue….?
I have to agree with Bill Mulligan, (who I admire) if Obama loses the left will go insane…..see Rob Browns nasty post on Palin “She is a mean-spirited, ethically deficient, b****h”
The continued insulting of anyone who disagrees with you as either stupid, retarded or evil. Does not help people!
I am concerned.
Posted by Rob Brown at September 9, 2008 08:09 AM
“Posted by: AnthonyX at September 8, 2008 11:17 PM
I’m Canadian. And as a Canadian who cannot vote, I would not prefer Mr. Obama as President.
Why?
1) His protectionism, so much so, that someone in his campaign contacted the Canadian embassy to say, paraphrasing(obviously) “don’t worry we will not be that bad”. Which brings about trust issues
2) His stance on the military. I was for orginally, still am and will debate anyone on the merits of the Iraq war. Americans do good work and the rest of the world, whether they think so or not, need you.
That is all. I approve of this message.
As a Canadian who CAN vote in this election and is going to vote for Obama (unless Obama does something to really upset me between now and then), I say this:
Hawks like AnthonyX do not speak for the majority of Canadians.
That is all.”
From another Canadian who cannot vote, ditto, Rob.
Anthony, the story about the meeting was blown out of proportion. McCain is also a protectionist, he just blames other countries for not putting American interests first, as well as seeming confused by this. Obama at least appears to be putting responsibility for outsourcing where it belongs. Qelle suprise, corporations want to reduce operating costs to increase profitability, and foreign governments are more worried about their own citizens welfare.
As to the war in Iraq, Bush wanted an excuse to invade Iraq before he was even in the White House. He and most of his barking dogs didn’t even wait for the clean up in NYC to be under way before they were creating links between the 9/11 hijackers and Saddam’s regime.
When those links didn’t hold up, the WMD line started. OOPS!!!!
IMHO, George War II is just W trying to outdo Daddy. And he has succeeded spectacularly. Where daddy inherited a massive defecit, and left after one term with a massive defecit, W inherited a budget surplus and created a huge defecit in his first term, got re-elected and deepened it.
Don’t even mention Katrina, Valerie Plame…
Heckuva job there, Georgie.
Hoping Obama would go away on the issue of her war vote was Hillary’s great political blunder in the primaries. She didn’t start recovering support until she finally said her vote was what got Saddam to let inspector back in, after which Obama backed off. But by then, it was too late.
The republicans win elections because they attack everything, even if it’s a faithfulness to reality. Look at you advocating the democrat should arbitrarily back off an opponent’s vulnerability.
AnthonyX: His stance on the military. I was for orginally, still am and will debate anyone on the merits of the Iraq war. Americans do good work and the rest of the world, whether they think so or not, need you/
AnthonyX, if you really want the US to be the police of the world, then the Iraq war was a huge failure in that.
I was for the war at first. I believed that we should have finished what we started in Desert Storm under the first President Bush. I didn’t even care about WMDs, I cared about Saddam being a bad dictator and how much better things would be after he was gone.
What changed my mind was the chaos that came afterwards. Like the current administration, I didn’t think about what would happen after we reached Baghdad. Instead of toppling the current regime and leaving, like I expected, there was a gigantic occupation.
This has *crippled* the USA’s ability to act anywhere else in the world. Problems in Afghanistan? We don’t have any troops to send. Problems in Georgia? We don’t have any troops to send. Problems in Darfur? Sorry, can’t help there, either.
We also lost a lot of our political pull in the world. Through all the mishandling of the Iraq War, other countries don’t feel as much need to follow our lead. So we have a lot more trouble getting anyone *else* to send help to those countries. Germany has troops in Afghanistan, but only on the condition that they stay far away from the hot zones. Anything else would be politically unacceptable for Chancellor Merkel, so that’s all she can do.
If you really think the rest of the world needs the US, then you should know that the Iraq War hurt our ability to fulfil those needs.
Jason M. bryant, Just a quick comment regarding my media bias meme I have got going here.
I realize have not made the case for this at all in my previous posts. Though I am not sure I could convince others from there current positions on this subject.
Having said all that, as an experiment, lets take a look, together, at the coverage of Palin in the next few weeks.
Lets wait for the inevitable mistakes that come out and see the attention it gets. And then compare and contrast to the gaffes by her opponents. Of course I have a list of those.
I am waiting for the inevitable who is the interior minister for IDONTGIVEAHOOTASTAN?
Iraq post to come
I have to agree with Bill Mulligan,(who I admire)
Well, that’s your problem right there. 🙂
if Obama loses the left will go insane
Let me just amend that to “a small but significant chunk” of the left. I don’t mean to slime everyone on the left with the blame that should be reserved for those who deserve it. I think a McCain win will drive them crazy. Granted, it won’t be a long drive.
But the result will be 4 more years of nothing accomplished. I can see a slim chance of McCain/Palin pulling it off but there’s no way I can see the republican snot losing big chunks in the House/Senate. It’s not even on the radar for them not to get creamed. The Democrats would have to have a perfect storm of bad luck and incompetence. And frankly, the republicans in the Senate and House need a sound good thrashing, otherwise they’ll never learn. The worst thing about Sarah Palin is that she’s so popular in Alaska that she may well help Ted Stevens keep his seat instead of him getting the drubbing he so richly deserves.
So anyway, McCain left with a majority democratic house and senate that are still reeling from the fact that they had every reason to have the presidency as well is a recipe for 4 years of partisan gridlock.
If Obama wins, we’ll have a good chance to get some things done and I would not be surprised at all to see some of those things be very pleasing to Republicans. Of course, the rabid partisans on the right will be as dumb as their liberal counterparts and reject anything that comes from Obama, even if it’s what they wanted but,that’s how it goes.
Considering his insists on referring to Obama bypassing the state department as “protectionism,” I’d say his admiration is more Bill Mulligan’s problem than Anthony’s.
AnthonyX: Having said all that, as an experiment, lets take a look, together, at the coverage of Palin in the next few weeks.
That would be fine, but it’s not worth much unless it is a comprehensive look.
Earlier you claimed that all the news other than FOX was biased liberally, then you sited one incident as proof of that. That’s anecdotal evidence, which isn’t real proof because it is just one isolated sample out of many. Meanwhile there has been actual study showing that overall NBC, CBS, and ABC have all been significantly more critical of Obama than of McCain.
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-onthemedia27-2008jul27,0,712999.story
So I’m willing to take a good hard look at the coverage of Palin in the next couple of weeks, but not if it is a dueling gaffs contest. It’s the overall coverage that matters, not us dueling over which particular example is more meaningful.
Plus, the next few weeks probably aren’t going to provide much anyway. Obama may be going on the O’Reilly factor and Biden going on Meet the Press, but Palin’s only announced interview is with Charlie Gibson. So they’re seeing people who like them and people who don’t, while she’s being questioned by someone known for softballing interviews.
Plus, the next few weeks probably aren’t going to provide much anyway.
It shouldn’t, but every article about Palin will just bring out the “liberal bias” claim. Even though, in what should be obvious to everybody, Palin is the only thing new to the equation here, so, not surprisingly, she’s going to get more coverage right now specifically because of that fact.
Biden, McCain, and Obama have all been thoroughly covered in the past, and Obama certainly got more than his fair share of negative coverage during the primaries, while McCain seems to enjoy the fact that he was being ignored.
In the end, if Obama had made a choice along the lines of Palin, a virtual nobody in the political scene, the situation for that individual would be much the same as it is with Palin now. This is simply a case of McCain making his bed and refusing to lie in it.
Luigi Novi whinged:
“I don’t recall you bringing this up with Micha, who’s from Israel, or El hombre Malo, who’s from Spain. Why is this?”
2 reasons.
AnthonyX wrote a couple things like he was directly involved with our voting process, although I suspected he wasn’t American. Micha and El Hombre never tried to hide that they were not from here.
And to give you yet another opportunity to attack me. Because I care. xxx ooo xxx