Just to keep things focused.
I find it interesting that whereas Obama picked a running mate who complemented the shortcomings in his slate–someone with a good deal of experience in foreign relations, for instance–McCain chose someone who will appeal to disenfranchised voting bases from both sides: to women who will see an opportunity to put a female a heartbeat from the presidency (and with a president of McCain’s years, that takes on a serious reality) after Hillary’s campaign ended in flames, and to the conservative base who will embrace a bottom half of the ticket who is apparently somewhere to the right of John Wayne.
The easy answer, of course, is that women won’t support her because she’s anti-abortion. Except there happen to be plenty of women who are likewise anti-abortion–yes, even Democrats–and therefore won’t find that a turnoff.
Frankly, I think Palin was a nervy choice that could reap serious benefits. And the timing of the announcement knocked all the post-convention attention away from Obama and onto McCain, which will now build as they roll into the GOP convention.
Personally, I find the notion of an anti-abortion, pro-drilling, pro-creationism, anti-animal protection vice president to be nothing short of terrifying. Then again, anyone that the extreme right embraces is by definition terrifying.
PAD
• 
Argh. This just shows I don’t know what I’m talking about sometimes. I know dámņ well that an increasing amount of venture capital money is currently being put into greentech such as solar power generation. I should be talking about more and longer lasting tax credits for placing VC money into alternative sources and increasing basic research, as most of the VC money is going into very applied work.
But a lot of these alternative methods are going to take some basic, infrastructure changes (which is somewhat better done by government agencies)(and there are some things that have to be done anyway, such as improvement to the national power grid, which I would also hazard may be best done with government oversight).
Tim Lynch: “The bigger questions here are not about Palin — and inasmuch as these smaller things matter *at all*, they matter in that they’re a reflection of McCain’s judgement, not her character.”
The biggest question, however, is whether or not that will make even the slightest dent in the election results. George H.W. Bush picked Dan-jáçkášš-Quayle as his running mate and still crushed Dukakis. Unless Palin gets caught knocking over a liquor store or something, I still wonder whether she’ll make any difference come Nov. 4.
That’s true, Bill — but as I mentioned earlier, a lot of that can be laid at the feet of (a) Bush pere following up a very popular president, and (b) the Dukakis campaign running one of the most inept campaigns in the modern era. Neither of those seems to be in effect this year.
I agree that in the end the VP choice isn’t likely to make a huge difference, but that seems just as big a jab against those people calling this some sort of huge game-changer.
TWL
I’m still catching up from the weekend, so I’ll just address random thoughts from all over this thread:
On the difference between CiC and VP: the next president will only be #44.
Yet, 8 US presidents have died in office. 4 of those deaths were by assassination. 5 more sitting presidents had assassination attempts made on them, and Teddy Roosevelt was also shot after he left office then went to run again.
The VP pick should be taken a lot more seriously than it is. And because of this, you cannot discount McCain’s age in this election. Just as concerns of Cheney’s health were legitimate 8 years ago.
Anybody who thinks that the world has suddenly forgotten about Obama because the RNC has started needs to step back from the cliff.
The pick of Palin I find to be boggling. If the point was to pump up the right-wingers that loathe McCain, well, she does the job. But, as has been stressed, most are voting for the CiC, not VP (even though, as I said, the VP is just as important). If the point was to try and steal away Clinton supporters, then I find it awfully crass that (imo) the McCain camp simply thinks that having a female VP guarantees female votes, regardless of Palin’s views. Which, has also been pointed out, are very much the opposite of Clinton’s.
I find it hilarious to see conservatives fret over Obama’s record, when it’s plainly obvious to anybody that the longer you’re in the Senate, the easier it is for your voting history to work against you. Do they really want McCain’s voting history to be so thoroughly checked? I doubt it.
McCain the Maverick died when he decided to try once again for the Republican nomination. He bent over backwards to endear himself to Bush and the neo-cons (who are still very much in charge), which is why so many conservatives are so lacking in enthusiasm, but will end up voting Republican anyways because they don’t know how to do anything else. McCain the Maverick would not have picked the person that most resembles the hard-core values of the Republican party while pandering for the votes of women.
GILF VP’s and shotgun weddings for the VP’s daughter. When I wanted new ideas in politics, this isn’t quite what I was thinking of. 😉
Bill Mulligan –
Obama’s biggest liability may be that he has supporters who are so stupid they seem to be bound and determined to act in the worst way possible, even if it hurts their own candidate.
C’mon now, Bill, both parties have more than their fare share of dûmbášš supporters.
Or should McCain not also be embarrassed by his supporters intentionally mistaking Obama as Osama, targeting Obama’s middle name of Hussein, and trying to claim he’s secretly a Muslim?
You’ve met Jeannie and I — twice — and you’ve seen by now that I cast a shadow.
But not a reflection in a mirror. What the hëll is THAT all about?
Drilling in America? That only helps in America. It doesn’t keep China from putting 30,000,000 more gas burning cars on the road over the next decade.
true that. One of the great things about finding a cheap limitless source of energy would be the sheer amount of now wasted human potential that will be released. Imagine it. Golden Age my friends, a Golden Age.
Oil, on the other hand, is a FINITE resource. Nobody’s making any more dinosaurs.
One possible clarification here–there are many possible ways that we CAN stay on the oil for energy bandwagon, even if all the wells run dry. Hydrocarbons can be made from many sources–food waste, vegetable matter, bacteria, algae, etc.
Now, I see these technologies just as a stop gap soultion, buying us time to develop better, cleaner technologies. But we should all keep in mind that we are not going to run out of oil. We are going to run out of cheap oil, barring any new advances. and, even if those advances come, it behooves us to strive for something better.
I’d really like to see some more thought put into little things that could make a difference in our homes. It’s hard to get reliable info. Example–my attic. It’s hot. Really hot. having the equivilant of a pizza oven above my bedroom means I have to run the AC more than I would have to.
So some people put in fans. makes sense to me. Blow in cooler outside air and the attic isn’t so dámņ hot. But then I read analysis on the web that pretty much discounts any benefit, any net savings. I start thinking–why not have my water heater up in the attic? I have it in the basement, the coolest part of the house. Wy not stick it up where the heat of the attic might do some good? Is it purely the fear that the thing might burst and cause damage to the whole house as opposed to flooding the basement?
My point is, if we build houses with the goal of saving 2% here, 5% there, we could come up with something that is significantly more efficiant than normal and not have to cost a fortune and look like something from The Jetsons.
Hmm. They say that family members (in this case, Palin’s teen daughter’s pregnancy) should be off limits. But I’ve also heard some pundits claiming that this shows how pro-life she is, since she wants her daughter to have the kid rather than get an abortion.
Therefore, I (less than) humbly present the new slogan for the McCain-Palin ticket:
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY:
THE PARTY IN FAVOR OF UNWED TEENAGE MOTHERS
Then again, if you oppose birth control and abortion, what did you expect?
never said otherwise. I said Obama’s idiots were his biggest liability. McCain’s biggest problem is not his idiots, it’s running in a year that should be almost impossible for a Republican to win.
Or should McCain not also be embarrassed by his supporters intentionally mistaking Obama as Osama, targeting Obama’s middle name of Hussein, and trying to claim he’s secretly a Muslim?
Who, Ted Kennedy? Ok, that one WAS an accident. But I recall McCain critisizing a supporter at a rally who kept emphasizing Obama’s middle name. And I would also point out that a lot of the really egregious Obama bashing came from either Democrats who supported Hillary and the real dregs of the conservative movement. Some of the blogs who have been pushing the Palin fantasies are blogs that have been considered legit sources, at least by the left.
(And to be fair, not every diarist or commentator on Daily Kos has approved of these attacks, though the percentage of loons who are apparently willing to do or say anything to win should give one pause. If it doesn’t profit a man to gain the whole world at the price of his soul, how much more poor a bargain is it to merely gain an election win. Or maybe I give them too much credit for selling smoething they didn’t have.)
At the end of the day someone will win, someone will lose. Those who support the winner will feel happy but they will not really have gained all that much on a personal level. It’s not worth doing or saying things that, when passions have cooled, make one ashamed. Or at least should do so.
(In case it’s in doubt, I would consider the liberals here to be, with a few exceptions, far more typical of the group as a whole than I would those drinking the kool-aid at some of the more popular sites.)
Bill, Tim, anybody else who might know something–what do you think of the problems with cold fusion experimentation? Think it’s worth researching? From what I’ve read most scientists don’t tink it’s possible, but then there are people producing thermal reactions with what they say is fusion.
Jason, I hang my head in uninformed shame. Can I use the fact that I spent all of from 9 AM this morning to 6:30 PM 60 feet in the air in a camera tower in 90 degree heat as an excuse? And I spent last night consoling my kid who’s scared to death of starting school because he’s afraid he’s going to fail everything? No? Wow, tough room.
There just seems like to be crazy season….a few of the blogs I read have been flooded by some wild and crazy conspiracy theoriists as well as some bozos wanting Palin blood.
Hmf. As if that would be something to accomplish…..
Oh yeah, plenty of conspiracy theories. I saw a blog earlier today where some random poster listed off about twnety of them.
Like one about how this was all planned since the primaries. McCain thought Hillary was going to win at that time, so he asked Palin to make her daughter get pregnant on purpose for the sympathy vote.
Or the theory that Ðìçk Cheney has actually been coaching Palin for months.
And the theory that Sarah Palin didn’t actually have a monther. Ðìçk Cheney had a headache one day, so he hit his forehead with the butt of his rifle. His head cracked open and Palin jumped out, fully grown.
Okay, I made that last one up. I’m very proud of it.
Posted by Jason M. Bryant at September 1, 2008 09:51 PM
Sorry Pat, but those comments weren’t even well thought out enough to be worth answering.
No Jason, Im sorry you have nothing better to do than belittle other posters.
I think I believe the Cheney one is the most credible of all…
It was worth belittling, Pat. You’re capable of doing a lot better, I don’t know why you didn’t.
Like when you started talking about oil company conspiracies. All I said was that there was promising research in wind and solar, but you turned that into an accusation of a conspiracy. How am I supposed to respond to that? By defending the claim I never made?
Or the part where you asked me how more wind and solar energy would run your car. All you had to do was read my post, I talked about that immediately after I talked about wind and solar. I didn’t even put anything in between, I just went from wind and solar to how the power would be used.
Look at all the people who picked apart your post. You really should have put more effort into it.
I think it’s helpful to talk as knowledgably as we can, supplying key details as we can.
There IS considerable money being put into greentech; as I mentioned, it’s the fastest growing segment of the venture capital investment industry. However, if you remember the nature of venture capital, particularly these days, there’s a tendency to focus and fund closer-to-market firms–thus there’s a lot of competitive companies with similar (though slightly different) technologies. And as it is, getting to market with new technology takes a long time….
There is less money given to more basic research. It’s not going to come from venture capital–the failure rate of companies based on mature technologies is bad enough that any funding of more speculative ideas is going to be sporadic. There’s a need, from where I sit, for systematic funding of basic and slightly less applied research, to build larger foundations to launch more advanced applied research.
Sean,
Cold fusion? Wow! My knowledge is limited. But here is what I know from a “New Scientist” article from September 2001:
“A ‘cold fusion’ experiment in California has produced tantalizing results – but critics say they may not indicate that any kind of nuclear reaction has actually taken place.”
“Most physicists treat claims of cold fusion with derision. However an underground of enthusiasts has continued performing experiments which, they say, demonstrate that deuterium nuclei can fuse to produce tritium and helium isotopes during the electrolysis of heavy water with palladium electrodes. The few outsiders who have tried to repeat the experiments have failed, and claims for cold fusion have not survived peer review to appear in mainstream journals.”
“Now Brian Clarke of McMaster University in Ontario, Canada, has found something that is not easily explained away.”
“Researchers at SRI International, a private laboratory in California carried out a cold fusion experiment – passing a current through heavy water using palladium electrodes – and claimed to see more heat produced than could be explained by the electric power used. They then sent their electrodes to Clarke for analysis. He discovered that they contained more than 10 to the 15th power atoms of tritium, a heavy radioactive isotope of hydrogen.”
“There’s no question of the tritium being real”, Clarke told the New Scientist.
“Although this is more tritium than you would expect to find in a palladium electrode, it is far less than would be needed to account for the amount of heat produced during the experiment.”
“A spokesman for the UK Atomic Energy Authority’s Culham Laboratory who has seen Clarke’s analysis said the small amount of tritium ‘indicates it’s and electrochemical effect’ – that the heat is produced by the making or breaking of chemical bonds rather than the fusing of nuclei.”
“‘I have no explanation of how the tritium was produced’, Clarke told ‘New Scientist’
Bill Mulligan,
“McCain’s biggest problem is not his idiots, it’s running in a year that should be almost impossible for a Republican to win”.
As Rocko said to Michael Corleone in “The Godfather: Part II” in regard to killing Hyman Roth: “Difficult. Not impossible.”
Really, Bill. I find it disheartening that you are buying into the notion that things are THAT bad. I mean, the way the pundits are describing it, you would swear we are in a period WORSE than the Great Depression. Some facts to consider”
1.) The economy grew by 3.3 % last month. So we’re not even in a recession.
2.) Unemployment is at a five-year high, true. But at 5.7%, it is still close to what used to be considered a level of full employment. Thanks to both Clinton and Bush, we have gotten so used to such a low unemployment rate, that it is almost impossible to go anywhere but up a bit.
3.) Gas prices – Gustav being an anomaly – have been going down.
4.) Even much of the mainstream media have acknowledged that the surge has worked and we are winning the War in Iraq – a war Democrats, especially Harry Reid and..Joe Biden declared was lost. Expect McCain to drive this home from now until Election Day since the current Commander-In-Chief seems incapable of doing so.
5.) The Republicans’ energy policy of “all of the above” is resonating nationwide. It seems much more reasonable than Nancy pelosi refusing to even bring drilling to a vote because she wants to “save the planet”.
6.) As a result of things like #5, the approval rating of Congress is lower than that of the despised-by-many. lame-duck Bush.
If McCain gives a speech like he did in 2004, continues to separate himself from Bush, continues to show America he will lead them to victory in Iraq and prosperity at home and continues to act as the most seasoned man at the top of the ticket and reinforces that during the debates, he has a great chance of winning.
Bill, Tim, anybody else who might know something–what do you think of the problems with cold fusion experimentation? Think it’s worth researching? From what I’ve read most scientists don’t tink it’s possible, but then there are people producing thermal reactions with what they say is fusion.
My guess is that the weird results some have seen are more of an interesting artifact than of a true breakthrough and unlikely to be scaled up to where they are useful. But who knows? Even if these results are not true fusion they may be something else, something that could be useful. It isn’t the technology I’d put the most hope into but it would not be the first time something great came out of left field.
Really, Bill. I find it disheartening that you are buying into the notion that things are THAT bad. I mean, the way the pundits are describing it, you would swear we are in a period WORSE than the Great Depression. Some facts to consider”
Jerome, I appreciate that the severity of things has been overblown. But by any measure this is a bad year for Republicans. I see no scenario where the party does not lose house and senate seats, do you? Too many retirements, to much money going to the Democrats, too many crooks like Stevens, too much excitement and likely high turnout on the other side.
McCain may pull it off–he’s probably the only candidate that could. It’s something the party got right–but such wisdom has been few and far between. And when the best hope is a guy who has been around as long as McCain it’s time to start cultivating some fresh blood.
No, picking on Bristol Palin directly shouldn’t be allowed. But picking on her condition? It should be talk of the day. How can you glorify your daughter if you’re cutting funding programs for unwed teen mothers, of which social service programs are usually the first things the Republicans like to cut (in favor of “faith based” money)? Is she against divorce, too? Because teen marriages are notoriously short lived. Does she recommend shotgun weddings in cases of rape and incest, too? The rates of child abuse and unintentional infanticide among teen parents, who have no experience, less wisdom, and little patience, are astronomical. I’d like to know Palin’s plans to reduce those statistics.
This should be a hot topic, raising a lot of difficult issues besides birthcontrol for teens. At 17, she can’t legally sign for a cell phone – how can she legally be guardian of another child? We insist our baby sitters and daycare workers be of certain ages and have certifications and training, but we give newborns to 15, 16, 17 year old girls without supervision, which doesn’t make sense. Ms. Palin, what do you plan on doing for all those girls without family support?? Are you as forgiving and proud of them?
,i>At 17, she can’t legally sign for a cell phone – how can she legally be guardian of another child? We insist our baby sitters and daycare workers be of certain ages and have certifications and training, but we give newborns to 15, 16, 17 year old girls without supervision, which doesn’t make sense.
Not sure i understand your position here–should teen mothers NOT be allowed to keep their children? It sounds like something from pro-life propaganda; kids are allowed to have abortions without supervision but if they choose to have the kid the state must step in and take control.
I would tread very carefully if I were the Democrats. If Hillary–Hillary!–was able to come off as the victim of sexist attacks (and there may be something to that charge, at least against certain newscasters) I think Palin will be a much more sympathetic character. Take a cue from Obama–“Back off.”
>4.) Even much of the mainstream media have acknowledged that the surge has worked and we are winning the War in Iraq – a war Democrats, especially Harry Reid and..Joe Biden declared was lost. Expect McCain to drive this home from now until Election Day since the current Commander-In-Chief seems incapable of doing so.
We’re winning? If you consider that the second the last bag of bribe money is handed to religious leaders / tribal heads by an american soldier and our troops are leaving the place will go once again to hëll a win…. Then I guess you are winning. But you are also ignoring the reality that is Iraq.
>5.) The Republicans’ energy policy of “all of the above” is resonating nationwide. It seems much more reasonable than Nancy pelosi refusing to even bring drilling to a vote because she wants to “save the planet”.
Ðámņ those grand children. It is our right to burn, burn, burn, burn and to hëll with anyone who follows us. Let them choke on acid rain, smog and weather gone insane. Who cares about wildlife! The country who pokes the biggest hole in the ozone wins!
>6.) As a result of things like #5, the approval rating of Congress is lower than that of the despised-by-many. lame-duck Bush.
And why are their ratings lower. As my local rep was told again and again in his last town meeting: BECAUSE THEY HAVEN’T DONE ANYTHING TO STOP THE WORST REPUBLICAN MIS MANAGEMENT OF THIS COUNTRY IN HISTORY! Just rubber stamped and asked for more.
Brian
Palin: Poster grandmother for failed parenting and no-sex education.
No.
Yeah, to paraphrase Obama, Sarah Palin’s private life has no relevance to how Sarah Palin interfere’s with the private lives of others. Her private life is still relevant to her choice to interfere with the private lives of others, and the outcome of that interference.
Obama is a master campaigner who can make the point without explicit references. But trying to dominate the conversation by creating a taboo against people talking about it amongst themselves seems to qualify as the epitome of being a tool.
I think she’s trying to say teens divesting themselves of the lifelong responsibility of being a mother, and the birth trauma, should be as easy as condoms and medicine allows. It sounds like common sense to me.
I disagree that Obama is acting like a tool here. He’s a class act. Would that his acolytes had his wisdom.
I disagree too, since he’s only threatened to fire those managing his sales-pitch, urging everyone else, and hasn’t resorted to name-calling or threats of dogpiling to enforce taboos.
Posted by roger Tang:
If this is so wonderful then why dont they show it?
ROI.
Argh. This just shows I don’t know what I’m talking about sometimes. I know dámņ well that an increasing amount of venture capital money is currently being put into greentech such as solar power generation. I should be talking about more and longer lasting tax credits for placing VC money into alternative sources and increasing basic research, as most of the VC money is going into very applied work.
You dont know what your talking about? Imagine how I feel.:)
But a lot of these alternative methods are going to take some basic, infrastructure changes (which is somewhat better done by government agencies)(and there are some things that have to be done anyway, such as improvement to the national power grid, which I would also hazard may be best done with government oversight).
Sounds great. You have a lot more trust in the Federal Government to handle these issues then I do. After the last round of brown outs? we had you would think the power grids would be top priority.
5.) The Republicans’ energy policy of “all of the above” is resonating nationwide.
Well, it’s time to back up the rhetoric.
Excerpts from an AP article a couple of days ago:
“About $500 million in investment and production tax credits will expire Dec. 31 unless Congress renews them. Without that help, solar and wind-power companies say they will reverse planned expansions and, in many cases, cut payrolls and capital investment.”
“Congress let the credit expire in 2000, 2002 and 2004. In those three years, wind capacity installation dropped 93 percent, 73 percent and 77 percent, from the previous years.”
“Almost all the provisions are popular. But Senate Republicans have blocked consideration of tax-extender plans by Max Baucus, D-Mont., the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. GOP congressmen are protesting efforts to offset the costs with other taxes or other items attached to the proposals. In the House, conservative Democrats promise to block any extension that adds to the deficit.”
“The credit has been allowed to expire 13 times since it was adopted in 1981. One repercussion, said Monica McGuire, the executive secretary of the R&D Credit Coalition, is that more companies are taking their research dollars overseas.”
So will Republicans help renew these tax credits to help an industry that cannot yet stand on it’s own? It’s long past time politicians put up or shut up. And right now, it sounds like they need to shut up.
Obama’s made it clear that he thinks anyone who engages in that sort of behavior is contemptible. There’s nothing he can do about it, of course, except hope that such people would discover some bit of common decency in some underused part of their souls. Such hope is, as we have seen, mostly in vain.
“Let me be as clear as possible, I think people’s families are off-limits, and people’s children are especially off-limits. This shouldn’t be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin’s performance as governor or her potential performance as a vice president. How a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn’t be the topic of our politics, and I hope that anybody who is supporting me understands that’s off-limits.”
Posted by: Jason M. Bryant:
It was worth belittling, Pat. You’re capable of doing a lot better, I don’t know why you didn’t.
Like when you started talking about oil company conspiracies. All I said was that there was promising research in wind and solar, but you turned that into an accusation of a conspiracy. How am I supposed to respond to that? By defending the claim I never made?
Or the part where you asked me how more wind and solar energy would run your car. All you had to do was read my post, I talked about that immediately after I talked about wind and solar. I didn’t even put anything in between, I just went from wind and solar to how the power would be used.
I wasn’t inferring that you were saying there was a conspiracy with the oil companies and Im sorry if my post came off that way.
Look at all the people who picked apart your post. You really should have put more effort into it.
Im frustrated, we not only need to come up with an alternate form of energy but mutiple forms to cover all aspects of the energy spectrum.
On top of that it seems we need to have it all come together at roughly the same time for it to be practical.
I dont really see that happening anytime real soon.
It certainly doesn’t mean we should stop but it does mean that we are going to need oil/petroleum for a long time to come and if we can become less dependent on foreign oil while we’re developing these other means of energy would be wonderful.
I think we need to become less dependant on foreign oil before we can become less dependant on oil in general. I know wishful thinking!!
Jerome, lots of problems with that list of yours.
1.) The economy is having trouble. Whether or not we’re technically in a recession, there are some bad things happening, so that’s a real issue.
3.) Gas prices may be going down, but they’re still ridiculously high. It’s good that they’re not the highest they’ve ever been, but that still doesn’t change the fact that a $50 fill-up is common and painful.
4.) The surge was not the entire war. The fact that many Republican leaders don’t want to talk about anything but the surge is a sign of how shaky they know they are on every other part of the issue. Also, most Americans want our troops to come home, so things being now better in Iraq supports that more than it supports John McCain’s reluctance to leave.
5.) The Republicans’ energy policy is *not* “all of the above.” John McCain’s plan has a lot of detail about drilling, a lot of detail about nuclear power, and briefly mentions alternative power. He doesn’t have anything solid about any energy other than oil and nuclear. Obama’s plan is closer to “all of the above” than McCain’s.
6.) Congress’ approval rating traditionally sucks. That’s the nature of a 638 headed beast. However, The approval rating for just the Democratic portion of Congress is higher than for Congress in general. It’s still pretty terrible, but it is higher than Bush’s approval rating.
Gas prices may be going down, but they’re still ridiculously high.
Are they? How high should they be? And if they are supposed to be significantly lower why would you expect anyone to push hard for alternative fuels?
Seems to me that gas prices are getting to where they probably should have been for some time.
There was a time when those who were concerned about the environment called for a tax on gas to get the price up and lower consumption. Sure enough, high prices have lowered consumption of gas and all the pollution it causes. But now some of those same people are unhappy about the high prices. Why? Or was it all just to get more tax revenue.
Like anyone else I’m getting hurt by high gas prices but if it’s the only way to stimulate interest in long term solutions it’s a price worth paying.
Jason,
No, the surge was not the entire war. Many mistakes were made. But we are winning now, thanks to an extremely politically risky surge that McCain pushed even more than Bush. America wants the troops to come home? So does McCain. As he said in a recent speech to the American Legion: “So do I. The difference between me and my opponent is I intend to win it (the war) first.”
Brian,
“We’re winning?”
Yes. Sorry if that disappoints you or if you simply don’t believe it due to the media’s reluctance to say those words.
And “bribe money”? Given by American soldiers? Are you writing the script for “Syriana II”?
“You are also ignoring the reality that is Iraq”
No. You are. The situation is much more complex – and optimistic – than you portray it. But that’s okay. Our soldiers will continue to do their jobs, with or without your support.
As for your over-the-top environmental screed and sarcastic rip against Palin, well they pretty much speak for themselves.
America wants the troops to come home? So does McCain. As he said in a recent speech to the American Legion: “So do I. The difference between me and my opponent is I intend to win it (the war) first.”
1) I trust you’re willing to acknowledge that the implication of that point (namely, that Obama doesn’t want to “win”) is about as mean-spirited an implication as one gets without accusing the other side of treason.
2) Define “win.” That’s something that almost nobody in this whole debate is willing to do. What constitutes a winning situation, in your view — and what do you think McCain might say?
TWL
Bill, in regards to how high gas prices should be, there are different answers depending on the nature of the question. If we were talking about how high they should be in regards to changing things so we help the environment, then it could be argued that they should be higher.
However, we get a different answer when talking about gas prices in regards to the economy. As far as the economy is concerned, people hate what the rise in gas prices has done to their pocket books, and the fact that gas used to be 50 cents higher doen’t make them forget that gas used to be $2 cheaper. This is especially true for the families that can’t afford to buy a new, fuel effecient car, but have to buy whatever is on the used car lot.
Jerome, McCain says he wants to bring them home, but with his resistance to timelines that comes across as insincerity. There’s no such thing as “winning” this war. McCain knows that, he has refused again and again to define what “winning” means. Right now McCain comes across as the friend who borrows money and then tells you he’ll pay you back “eventually.”
Also, the surge is not solely responsible for the improvements that have been made. It was one factor out of many. The fact that he was in favor of something that was partially responsible for an improvement does not trump all the other mistakes he has made.
Well, sure, there are different answers to the same question but at least a person should pick one snd stick to it. As is you have some of the same people bìŧçhìņg that gas prices are too low and hurting the environment and then bìŧçhìņg that gas prices are too high and hurting the economy. They may be right on both accounts but you have to choose one or the other as a desired outcome. Otherwise it looks like you just want to bìŧçh about things.
Hey, at least this is something we can control. The sun just went for a whole month without any sunspots. What that means I don’t know but there sure as hëll isn’t anything we can do about it.
It’s a fair analysis that the price of gas affects people’s opinions about the economy. It’s not at all inconsistent with the environmental issue, if clean electric power was workable and cheaper than gas, then moving to that would save people money *and* help the environment. You don’t have to choose argument or the other.
That was supposed to be, “You don’t have to choose one argument or the other.”
Jonathan (the other one)
Hey, no problem.
Sean: Bill, Tim, anybody else who might know something–what do you think of the problems with cold fusion experimentation? Think it’s worth researching?
Luigi Novi: If you mean room temperature cold fusion, which is the kind Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischan claimed they had produced in the March 1989 debacle, there’s no scientific validity to it. It’s essentially a variation of a perpetual motion machine, in that it claims to produce more energy than is put into it. Thus, it violates the Laws of Thermodynamics (the Second one, if I’m not mistaken).
If, on the other hand, you mean super-cooled cold fusion (the kind achieved with muons at temperatures near absolute zero), there is some validity to this idea, as it has been achieved. Calculations show that the system produced in this way can produce more energy than it consumes, but only if the muon chain achieves 300 fusions in the lifetime of the muon, and to be commercially viable, 900. As of the writing of the 1998 book Scientific Blunders by Robert Youngson, the Japanese team that achieved this managed 200 fusions. They’re hoping to eventually reach 300, and Youngson says indications is that it eventually will be, but I assume they haven’t reached 300 yet, much less 900, or else we probably would’ve heard about it on the news, much as we did with the Pons-Fleischman “breakthrough”.
Sean: From what I’ve read most scientists don’t tink it’s possible, but then there are people producing thermal reactions with what they say is fusion.
Luigi Novi: This was also true of the scientists who tried to replicate Pons and Fleischman’s experiments in 1989. At first, there were some confirmations. But most reported lack of success, and this is how the Peer Review Process works. It holds that such tests should be able to recreate the same results as the initial experiment consistently. If only a few anomalous ones do, and most don’t, then conclusion is there is some explanation other than the one suggested by the original experiment for them.
I highly recommend Youngson’s book. It details all sorts of famous scientific blunders and achievements, and is written for the lay reader.
But we are winning now
What are we winning, exactly? Please answer the question for once, because you keep throwing things out there, regurgitating political points, but like the politicians they’re spewed forth from, you never seem to be willing to go so far as to back them up.
Yes. Sorry if that disappoints you or if you simply don’t believe it due to the media’s reluctance to say those words.
Ahh, yes. More bravado from the “you’re obviously not a patriot” types. It adds *so much* to the conversation when we’re simply working with rhetoric than words that actually mean something.
Going back to the other thread about Georgia & Russia, does anybody still think we “won” the Cold War? And given that, who actually thinks that the war on terror is one that can be defined so easily as to be given such abstract terms as ‘won’ or ‘lost’?
Bill Mulligan : Not sure i understand your position here–should teen mothers NOT be allowed to keep their children? It sounds like something from pro-life propaganda;
No, no agenda here. I’m still divided on the idea of unconditional teen abortion myself. A close friend of mine was in fact the father of 15-year old’s baby, and his daughter has done just fine. I do feel that teen mothers need more supervision and support. Mandatory parenting classes would be a good start. A guardian ad litem (however the heck it’s spelled) for the baby until the parent is 18 would not be a bad idea either, unless the other parent is legal adult. (Yes, I realize the nightmare this creates in a social services system that already cannot find its way out of a paper bag). Technically, a 14-year old in most states cannot even give consent for sex; they are not seen as capable of understanding the implications. But they have the brains to raise a baby? I do not, however, propose removing all teen babies. All I’m saying is that an adult – be it a relative or friend or court-appointed aid – should be responsible for making sure the teen and baby have all the supports they need to start off well and thrive. Not every pregnant teen has family support, and they shouldn’t be left to struggle on their own.
So, now that it’s coming out that Palin was part of the Alaskan Seseccion movement – I have to wonder if a woman who didn’t even want to be a US citizen should be running for VP.
I see what you’re saying and I don’t necessarily disagree but imagine the furor if it was proposed that teens seeking abortion under go mandatory classes before getting one.
Legislating these things opens up many cans of worms. For example, if a 13 year old gets an abortion isn’t it self evident that she has been raped? So must the clinic save tissue samples for DNA analysis and inform the police that a crime has occurred? Or does her right to privacy trump society’s desire to arrest child rapists?
It’s an area of law and personal freedoms that is fraught with peril.
Meh. Not sure the AIP membership is that pertinent. From what I understand, that’s a local idiosyncracy that’s popular in the state. ANd it’s more of an honorary membership when the party had a convention in her town; her political membership has been as a Republican for well before that.
However, I think this is actually indicative of McCain’s sloppiness and poor decision-making qualities. Anybody who knew what they were doing would have known this three months ago and have had decent explanations in place right now, instead of scrambling for them after the fact.
roger Tang: “A lot of Dems are itching to nail Palin on her kid’s pregnancy.
“As if that’d do any good. A) That just pìššëš øff not only the right wing, but a good portion of the the middle and left and B) IT A SMALL THING IT’S A SMALL THING IT’S A SMALL THING.”
It turns out this is not, as I suspected, “a small thing.” At least not according to this article in the Chicago Tribune:
“Voters nationally are just getting to know Palin, 44, and the revelation Monday led some Republican strategists, speaking anonymously, to question whether she would survive on the ticket.”
As a liberal Democrat, I happen to agree that Palin’s family should be off-limits. But it’s not the liberal Democrats that she and McCain need to worry about. It’s the conservative base of the Republican party. They tend to be somewhat… unforgiving… of personal indiscretions.
Tim Lynch: “Now, in the short term it did its job beautifully: it took everyone so completely by surprise that discussion of Obama’s speech on Thursday got knocked off the radar. In the long term, I think it raises questions: the first thing McCain does under stress is roll the dice on someone he barely knows and apparently hasn’t vetted very much.”
“Long term?” Hëll, it’s still the short term and already McCain’s choice for a running mate is problematic. But, yes, I agree: this raises serious questions about McCain’s judgment and ability to lead. For a man who campaigned on experience and is trying to fire up his party’s conservative base, he picked someone who seems to hurt him on both scores.
Could be. But all I have control over are my actions, so I’m just saying that I don’t want to deal with that. And that I can walk the high road (unlike John McCain and his remark on Chelsea Clinton)(cause he was wrong in more than one way about that).
“does anybody still think we “won” the Cold War?”
Yes, you did. And now it’s possible that you’re getting into a new cold war with a new Russia. It doesn’t invalidate the acheivement of the fall of the USSR. Winning one war doesn’t guarentee you won’t have to fight another, or else victory would have to be defined either as the complete eradication or the complete forced change of heart of an enemy, which rarely happens.
But it is true that a victory in a cold war is not like a victory in a conventional war.
However, in a war against terrorists victory is even harder to define, if at all. And you are not winning. Not sure if you can, or if it’s possible. You are doing better in Iraq, which is nice.
Talking about and expecting a clear cut victory like in WWII or Return of the Jedi is a mistake made both by the left and by the right. The right presents a pipe dream of a great victory which is always just over the horizon, as an excuse to continue with policies that are often wrong and pointless. The left uses the same pipe dream to present limited positive successes as failures — after all they’re not Victory with a capital V. But, in the real world sometimes you acheive limited successes and sometimes you have to realize that what you can acheive is limited.
But it’s not the liberal Democrats that she and McCain need to worry about. It’s the conservative base of the Republican party. They tend to be somewhat… unforgiving… of personal indiscretions.
Well, we will see. So far it is the left that has been critical. I suspect that talk of here leaving the ticket is more wishful thinking than anything else. Since the convention is back on I guess we will have our answer. I’ve seen Dobson voice his support–is there any evidence of any mainstream conservatives or evangelicals calling for her ouster or even offering criticism?
Given how common a thing this is, something that most families can relate to, I think any overkill on this will bounce back and hurt the critics. It’s like when Al Gore’s son was busted for pot. The media wisely backed off and it got little play, no speculation on whether or not it was due to unfit parenting or any of the other snide comments Palin has been getting (much less any claims that it was actually Al, disguised as son, who was really the one who got arrested).
I’ll say this though–if Palin were to be removed it would be Obama by a landslide. She seems very popular with the base.
She seems very popular with the base.
Pro-life, pro-gun, etc etc.
For all the talk of McCain being the maverick in choosing her, she’s as safe a choice to the core of the Republican party as Biden is with the Democratic party.
Yes, you did. And now it’s possible that you’re getting into a new cold war with a new Russia.
Well, then we have substantially differing views on what was ‘won’. For example, Reagan’s policies of “spend, spend, spend” continue to this day and it’s really hurting the US as a whole. And while the USSR became Russia, they’re still the same belligerent nation. To me, it doesn’t feel like anything has truly changed, that the Cold War was merely postponed and it never really ended.
“As a liberal Democrat, I happen to agree that Palin’s family should be off-limits. But it’s not the liberal Democrats that she and McCain need to worry about. It’s the conservative base of the Republican party. They tend to be somewhat… unforgiving… of personal indiscretions.”
Well, I can only be anecdotal about this. But as a conservative evangelical Christian who is married to a conservative evangelical Christian and who attends church and is friends with many such individuals, I can disagree wholeheartedly with what you are saying. I was always luke-warm towards McCain. My wife was flat out refusing to vote for him, prefering to cast her ballot for a third party candidate. The Palin pick has changed both of our minds. We are now, both of us, enthusiastic McCain/Palin supporters. This is the ticket for us. Our enthusiasm is shared generally by many of our friends.
There’s no judgemental attitudes towards Sarah Palin over the revelations of the past few days. If anything, the piling on, insults, attacks on family members, and bottom feeding are getting us even more fired up. These people who are acting in such a repugnant fashion are not the sort that we think should be leading our country. It’s one thing to attack someone’s experience or politics. Using a daughter’s out of wedlock pregnancy or inventing rumors that Palin faked her own pregnancy? That’s perversely sick and twisted.
I don’t know what will happen in November. But I know what SHOULD happen.