Okay, so now I *am* going to United Fan Con. Apparently their money situation has sorted itself out (the fact that Aaron Douglas dropped out probably freed up some funds, I’d think) and I was reinvited.
Honestly, I toyed with the idea of saying forget it, but that didn’t seem fair to all the fans who’d written me expressing dismay over my not being there, especially since they’d purchased nonrefundable tickets.
So I’ll be there.
PAD
• 
“I guess my next question is this: if there was that much vemon spewed on both sides of the issue in the previous thread, why did Mr. David accept when he was re-invited?”
UFC isn’t just inviting him down, they’re also paying for airfare and hotel accommodations for him and his family. Without that, him just going on his own to keep from disappointing the fans would have been way too expensive, so it wasn’t feasible. Now that they have re-invited him, they’re also taking care of those expenses again, allowing him to go and not disappoint the fans.
One other thing. When I say, “the fans” that includes people who don’t read this blog and will go to the convention totally unaware of what has been going on.
Dan, since I didn’t mention this before, thank you for your civility and honesty in disagreeing with Peter and most of the others here. 🙂
In answer to your question “If there was that much vemon spewed on both sides of the issue in the previous thread, why did Mr. David accept when he was re-invited?”, Peter answered this in the blog entry at the top of this page, when he said:
“Honestly, I toyed with the idea of saying forget it, but that didn’t seem fair to all the fans who’d written me expressing dismay over my not being there, especially since they’d purchased nonrefundable tickets.”
“UFC isn’t just inviting him down, they’re also paying for airfare and hotel accommodations for him and his family. Without that, him just going on his own to keep from disappointing the fans would have been way too expensive, so it wasn’t feasible. Now that they have re-invited him, they’re also taking care of those expenses again, allowing him to go and not disappoint the fans.”
So, it was a money issue on his side as well? They agree to pay for everything, and now everything is hunky-dorey?
you know, I don’t get this pìššëd øff when they cancel schduled overtime at work…I just take it that I get to go home on time and I’m happy…there’s no drama there…in fact, I get more pìššëd øff if they cancel my OT and then tell me they need me again!!!
I guess I just don’t understand.
You know, folks, I’m just going to have to leave this debate…trying to figure out the logistics of all this is giving me a headache, and that’s when I know its time to let go.
Hope everything works out.
see you guys on another topic.
DT
Dan, I’m not really sure where you’re coming from.
PAD made plans with them a long time ago. They used his name to get people to come to their show. They made an agreement to do certain things for him. He *didn’t* make other plans for the weekend, even thought there were other cons he could have gone to. When UFC fell through on their obligations, that was worth getting annoyed with.
When they offered to take him again and offered assurances that there wouldn’t be more problems, PAD agreed because he didn’t want to disappoint people. No, UFC didn’t make everything hunky-dorey, but there were other people in the consideration.
It’s really fairly straightforward.
And the third offense punishment? I’m imagining a lighting bolt going through the internet and frying his computer. Nobody correct me if I’m wrong, I’m enjoying that image too much. 🙂
One of these days I have to get around to typing up the story of the poor fellow who broke into my house and stole my computer, how I found him, and what happened to him afterwards…
…but think in those terms.
DT: I hear the talk of the talk, but I don’t see the walk of the walk. Even in your language, Christine, I hear you saying ‘I might even consider…’ instead of a ‘I definitely would not.’
Well, I am not in the position to “walk the walk” as I was never going to this particular Con. I was giving an example.
DT: you know, I don’t get this pìššëd øff when they cancel schduled overtime at work.
But have you lost other opportunities to make a living because you had the time scheduled at your job? There is the difference.
DT: I’m just going to have to leave this debate
‘kay.
Dan Taylor, conventions represent an opportunity for Peter to make money by selling his merchandise. When Peter committed to this year’s UFC, he turned down invitations to other conventions that would have conflicted. Therefore, when UFC pulled the plug on Peter’s appearance, it represented a loss of revenue for Peter.
Worse still, the convention advertised Peter as a guest and some people bought non-refundable tickets because of that. When UFC un-invited Peter without having the stones to announce far and wide “this is our fault,” they were setting up Peter for an undeserved backlash from fans.
As far as going at his own expense: why should he? That’s quite a lot of money to spend to attend a convention that’s treated him like crap. A convention where he’s appeared as a guest in years past, by the way.
Anyway, UFC has re-invited Peter and he’s graciously accepted out of a sense of fairness to his fans. Those people who derided Peter in a prior thread for “daring” to air out this issue in the first place should take heed, because Peter is showing more character than they give him credit for.
Kath the Wife David: “Myers – What did I tell you about making sports bets with Mulligan? *grin*”
The same thing you told me about not sticking my finger in a light socket: don’t do it. I should have listened on both counts. 😉
Oops, the prior post contained a double negative. It should have read “The same thing you told me about sticking my finger in a light socket…”
Well, I guess I’ve ruined any potential humor value in my prior post. My work here is done. 🙁
Mr. “Taylor” equates what the con had been doing (before they reinstated Mr. David) to what his resort had been doing, by closing their resort at times when they had promised year-round access.
Why yes, it is like that. The resort advertised and accepted money for something it was not actually prepared to provide. It engaged in improper business. And if someone were to point out to their customers that the company was not living up to its promises, that would be a good communication.
To compare it to non-refundable flight tickets is missing one vital point: even non-refundable flight tickets are refunded if the flight is canceled… and that’s true if the plane still flies, and they just cancel that stop in Akron which you bought the ticket to get to.
It might not be necessary for me to say anything about this, but I just thought I’d offer some information that I have regarding the most recent guest line-up changes at UFC. Aaron Douglas is a friend of mine and he told me that due to BSG filming and a season 4 promo photoshoot the weekend of UFC, he was forced to cancel his appearance. I know some folks will be disappointed, but I hope that they will understand that his professional committments take priority over doing convention appearances.
That being said, I am sure that Aaron’s cancellation freed up a substantial amount of funds (between his appearance fee, his airfare, hotel, and other expenses) that then allowed them to re-invite PAD. I admit that I do not know PAD from Adam, but I think it says a lot about his character that he is willing to risk getting burned again so that his fans will get what they paid for. I hope everything works out smoothly and you all have a great time.
Bill, what have we all told you about employing double negatives? I don’t care if you checked their green cards.
You know, I’m in a comparable situation as PAD right now.
The NLL (which most of you have probably never heard of) canceled the ’08 season 10 days ago after the team owners and the player’s union couldn’t agree on a new Collective Bargaining Agreement.
My wife and I have season tickets for our local team, the Colorado Mammoth. So, the day after the season was canceled, we received info on if we wanted a refund on our season tickets. Since they were willing to refund our money but hold on to our seats for the ’09 season, we wanted the refund.
Then, we went and adjusted one of our trips in February (since there was no more home game to worry about that weekend), and booked another trip for May (which would have been during the playoffs). Since I’m probably going to be changing jobs next summer, we wanted to go ahead and squeeze these trips in now, since the dates are all now open.
In short, we were planning the next 6 months of our life around our love of box lacrosse and the all of 8 games the Mammoth will play in Denver this spring. I imagine PAD is doing much the same when he’s invited to all these conventions each year.
Now, here we are, 10 days after the cancellation of the season, and rumors are floating around that the season may go on after all.
The point?
I made plans based on what somebody else had guaranteed me was going to happen (in this case, no season).
So, I’m completely fragged, and I’m likely going to call today to demand they refund my money regardless, because I can’t wait another month for them to figure out what they’re going to do with the mess they’ve created.
Now I’m not sure I’ll bother with this league again down the road. Why? Because they can’t keep their word, because they are jerking us around. And there’s no reason for me to put up with it.
It is not fun, regardless of whether you’re a professional, or merely a fan, to be pìššëd on in such a fashion.
ALL:
Okay! Okay! I get it already!!!
Fine! You have your way of thinking and I have mine. Lets just agree to disagree!
What is with you people and your incessant need to convince me that you’re right??????
Geeez….I am officially of this topic now.
Bill Mulligan: Ah, but of course you don’t care what anyone thinks of you. You’re a seed planter!
Given his antics, I’d say he’s more of a seed spreader — as in the Onan variety. 🙂
Wish I was in the area to attend this con. Any of the few comic book conventions I’ve attended in my life (and they were long ago, back when Chicago was in it’s pre-Wizard days), PAD was always head-and-shoulders above the rest in terms of politeness and accessibility.
“Any of the few comic book conventions I’ve attended in my life (and they were long ago, back when Chicago was in it’s pre-Wizard days), PAD was always head-and-shoulders above the rest in terms of politeness and accessibility.”
Did you say CHICAGO? As in the legendary Chicago Comic-Con? Were you there that one summer when the convention was downtown at the Congress Hotel and THE AIR CONDITIONING BROKE DOWN?? I think they called it ‘the Con of Wrath’?
Those were some FUN conventions….
Dan Taylor: “What is with you people and your incessant need to convince me that you’re right??????”
Conversations are a two-way street. If you’re not comfortable hearing what others have to say, you should probably steer clear of the conversation.
Dan Taylor: “What is with you people and your incessant need to convince me that you’re right??????”
It’s not trying to convince you that we’re right, it’s more just pointing out that your observations haven’t swayed us to your point of view. That’s the thing with a topic like this one though. This isn’t like a debate where we’re discussing provable facts of whether or not some political figure lied about facts or whether or not 4+4=8 or not. This is pure POV.
Your trying to convince us that our POV that was formed by our past experiences and from what we had already discussed about this before you started posting on the topic should be altered to your POV. Rather then simply persuading us that you have a valid point of view for yourself, you’re trying to convince is that you’re right and we’re wrong. So far, you haven’t done that and we’ve not said anything that has dissuaded you from your POV on the subject.
Dan, that’s actually fine. Don’t get so flustered with it. Flip through the archives and you’ll see lots of us hitting points in debates ranging from musical genres to how to deal with African genocide were we just agree to disagree and walk away from things in a friendly manner. You can’t win ’em all (any more then any of us can) and some of ’em ain’t worth trying win past a certain point.
Dan, we agree to disagree here. Catch you in the next debate, thread or even the not-quite-totally-rare none-argument discussion.
Posted by Jerry Chandler
…City Hunter (the silliest movie Jackie Chan ever did)…
…and apparently somewhat de-silly-ised from the original anime source. (Which i saw once in Japanese without subtitles. At opne point, remarked to a friend that “…now is when the girl pulls out the ten-kilo hammer…” and he said “Nah – this isn’t Lum, and then she pulled out the ten-kilo hammer…)
Posted by Alan Coil
As to the TRLL, were it my site, it wouldn’t get a third chance. I’d just contact Verizon and have its account deleted.
Except that i bet it wouldn’t happen – there’s a spammer who continues to hit rec.arts.sf.fandom with drive-bys advertising things on eBay, and, despite numerous complaints from several rasff regulars, neither eBay nor his ISP (one of the majors) will do anything, even though it’s in clear violation of both their abuse policies.
Posted by Dan Taylor
Okay! Okay! I get it already!!!
Fine! You have your way of thinking and I have mine. Lets just agree to disagree!
What is with you people and your incessant need to convince me that you’re right??????>
Perhaps it’s a reaction to someone who comes ’round here to our playground and begins to lecture us on why we’re not playing right because we don’t do it the same way kids at his playground would do it?
And then lectures us on how his game is much superior to our game when we point out to him that we’re not playing the game he thinks we are?
(Personally, i *enjoy* playing Calvinball…)
“Nah – this isn’t Lum…”
Don’t be hating on one of my favorite aliens from days gone by. I haven’t seen any of the Anime or read the manga in years, but I really like the humor in that series when I was younger.
“liked”
I’m really not awake yet… Sheesh.
“Perhaps it’s a reaction to someone who comes ’round here to our playground and begins to lecture us on why we’re not playing right because we don’t do it the same way kids at his playground would do it?”
Huh? Who’s LECTURING????? I was just presenting another point of view!!! What’s with this ‘our playground’ vs. ‘your playground’ nonsense????
You know what? You’re right. You’re RIGHT. GO and play in ‘your playground.’ Apparently I don’t fit in.
HAVE BLOODY FUN.
Guess I’m going to be considered a TROLL now. If I am, then look back at my thread—ever stop to consider that maybe, just maybe, the reason you get so many trolls here is because you create them?
Take a look back at ALL your threads…I would be willings to bet you anything that 99.9% of the people who don’t agree with you, you end up labelling as trolls. Why is that?
Do it. I dare you.
AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Dan Taylor: Okay! Okay! I get it already!!! Fine! You have your way of thinking and I have mine. Lets just agree to disagree! What is with you people and your incessant need to convince me that you’re right??????
Luigi Novi: I don’t think anyone here has an “incessant need to convince anyone that they’re right”. You simply asked a question, and we answered it. We thought that’s what you wanted. And I think most of the responses here were very polite to you, weren’t they? I even complimented you on your honesty and civility in disagreeing with Peter above. I don’t see how merely expressing our opinion–in answer to a question you posed–constitutes an attempt to make you agree. 🙂
Dan Taylor: Huh? Who’s LECTURING????? I was just presenting another point of view!!!
Luigi Novi: Well, you did a bit more than that, actually. You criticized us for answering your question by accusing us of trying to make you agree with us. “Lecturing” isn’t the precise word I would use to describe that, but at the same time, I wouldn’t call it “just presenting another point of view”. You seemed to become genuinely angry that most of the others here disagreed with you, even though they explained to you why they did so, and politely. Why is this?
Dan Taylor: Guess I’m going to be considered a TROLL now. If I am, then look back at my thread—ever stop to consider that maybe, just maybe, the reason you get so many trolls here is because you create them?
Luigi Novi: No, but I’d be more than willing to do so, if the evidence for that assertion existed. A troll is someone who deliberately tries to invoke a negative emotional reaction from others on the Net. You’re saying that if someone began doing this after seeing that others on a thread disagreed with him, that this would be the fault of the others? Obviously, this would just be an attempt to absolve the troll of responsibility for their actions, since mere disagreement with someone does not justify trolling.
Dan Taylor: Take a look back at ALL your threads…I would be willings to bet you anything that 99.9% of the people who don’t agree with you, you end up labelling as trolls. Why is that? Do it. I dare you.
Luigi Novi: Actually, there are plenty of memorable threads that I’ve read and participated in on this site since its inception, and I’ve even archived many of them in Word documents that I keep on my computer. They show me and many others here disagreeing with both Peter and with others, and they do not depict such people being labeled as trolls for mere disagreement, even when they’re in the minority.
Dan,
It’s kinda chilly here in southeast Michigan. The wind is howling. I am wearing a sweater and I have wrapped a throw around me to keep warm. I haven’t yet turned on the furnace, even though it has been in the 30s a couple nights in the last few days. Brrr. I sometimes think I am more than frugal, perhaps a little miserly. Other than that, life is treating me just fine.
Talk to you soon.
Dan, you’re only going to risk being labeled a troll if you chose certain course of action here. And, no, disagreeing with even 100% of the people here on a given topic doesn’t get you tagged as a troll. I once brought up a point about Iraq that had everybody disagreeing with me, and a couple of people borderline flaming me, for the better part of a day. Next topic, everything started over from zero. It’s not whether someone disagrees or not, it’s how one comports oneself that invites a troll label.
Now, you may be getting close to that line in some people’s eyes by your above reaction. Here’s why. Bill Myers, Mike Weber and I all responded to you on this topic. Myers was fairly neutral, I was trying to be as neutral and polite as possible and Mike Weber, while being neutral in his own way (Mike’s examples have to be read in a friendly tone of voice rather then a nasty one. He’s actually a really nice guy and I say that as someone who has been in many disagreements with him.) can be taken the wrong way, taken with a grain of salt or ignored. Plus, please bare in mind that Mike was responding to a rather… impolite… posting of yours. Instead, you ignored Bill’s post, ignored my post and went off the rails about Mike Weber’s post.
Pick and chose what you feel is worth responding to at any given time. There are some people here who don’t respond to others here at all or very infrequently. There are some here who respond to everybody because they don’t take anything here the least bit personally. Figure out what works for you.
Again, chill out a bit and don’t get so flustered with it.. This is a fun little blog, even if you disagree with others here, if you don’t take anything too personally, don’t read everything like it’s meant to be insulting and pick and chose how much you really want to debate some points here.
Oh, and cutting out silly stuff like this…
“HAVE BLOODY FUN.
Guess I’m going to be considered a TROLL now. If I am, then look back at my thread—ever stop to consider that maybe, just maybe, the reason you get so many trolls here is because you create them?
Take a look back at ALL your threads…I would be willings to bet you anything that 99.9% of the people who don’t agree with you, you end up labelling as trolls. Why is that?
Do it. I dare you.
AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
… will go a long way towards not having too many people here wanting to lump you in with the other trolls here.
Cheers.
You lose that bet, Dan. Almost everyone on here disagrees with other people here on a regular basis.
And nobody has called you a troll. But the screaming at the end of your last post isn’t helping you.
You had an opinion. That’s fine, but it’s also fine for other people to explain why they disagree with you. Most of the responses have bee quite calm, while you’ve been going, “AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!”
Yes, we disagree with you. But just because several people are disagreeing with you at the same time doesn’t mean that we don’t think that you have a right to an opinion. Nobody is oppressing you, Dan, nobody even wants you to hold back.
But at the same time, we’re not going to stop disagreeing with you or writing out our own thoughts on the matter. We might want to keep discussing something even after the person who started that part of the conversation has left.
And yes, some of your comments have had a lecturing tone. Statements like “Okay! Okay! I get it already!!!” sounds like a lecture. Perhaps you’re just not used to having several people respond to your statements at once, but that’s how message boards work. We’re not a mob who are all attacking you, each individual person is stating an opinion. Those individual opinions can sometimes add up to an onslaught, but they weren’t meant that way since each person was only trying to state their own opinion.
Wow. I started typing as soon as I saw Dan’s post, but three people posted their’s before I finished typing.
That’s another odd thing about the internet, Dan. Sometimes you get several responses at once just because each person didn’t realise that the others were typing already. 🙂
Guess I’m going to be considered a TROLL now.
Nope. You presented your argument reasonably (remember, in my first response I said I could almost see your PoV) I just didn’t agree and presented a different PoV.
Trolls tend to throw personal insults rather than present their thoughts coherently.
No harm, no foul. See you at the next topic/debate. 🙂
Now we’ve had our very own Howard Dean moment. 🙂
What happened to Dan Taylor? Up to the last one or two pots there was a seemingly regular conversation — quite calm in the standards of this blog. But then all these capital letters.
Strange.
Actually, Jason brings up a good point that I should have thought of due to my own past with the old style BB’s. We’re all answering or disagreeing on our own and as only one person, but we’re doing it at more or less the same time. Dan mentioned above that he’s new to the blog and, from some other comments in that post, I think new to blogging regularly.
Am I right in my guess Dan?
See, years ago now, I got on to a BB for the first time and picked one where they were discussing Star Trek. Yeah, I wasn’t looking for polarized POV’s. I mentioned some point I had (I don’t remember what it was now) and had 30 or 40 posts responding in no time at all to disagree with me. Some responses phrased in very brusque manners I might add. It felt like a pile-on to me at the time.
My buddy, whose computer I was using, pointed out that they weren’t all disagreeing with me together, they were all just doing it individually at the same time. It happened to him, and everybody else, all the time. It was an obvious when you thought about it, but I can definitely understand someone not seeing it that way at first.
Dan, no matter how it seemed, if you are relatively new to blogging and if that’s how you took it, we’re not all jumping on you as a group to disagree with you or dismiss your ideas or views. The thing with blogs like this is that you’re not having one discussion with 20 other people; you’re having 20 different conversations on one subject with 20 different people and with frequent crosstalk.
No pile on. Again, chill out, relax and just enjoy the debates.
Hmmm. Micha brings up an interesting point. Can someone check to see if the Dan Taylor who first appeared has the same URL as the one who last appeared on this thread? Could it be an imposter?
J. Alexander-
Dan Taylor is Dan Taylor. Trust me on this one.
And everyone play nice. Don’t make me pull over this Internet.
Kath
I thought most of us were playing nice. Some of us have even been bending over backwards to convince him that we’re not engaging in a metaphorical gang beating of him or his opinions. Are any of us, by your perspective, trying too hard and coming off as condescending instead? I was a bit worried about that with some of my posts, but I was trying to make my points to him as clearly and as understandably as possible.
Over did it?
Jeez… I’m having a hëll of a problem with typos today. I really need some rest.
Dan, it doesn’t seem to be so much disagreement that gets you labeled as a troll than people disliking the principles you demonstrate you live by or failing to comprehend them fearing you don’t live by principles at all. Either seems to give them what they feel is a justification to abandon any pretense of consistency when principle doesn’t get them what they want.
Although I live by rules, the most recent assessment of me by some of the people responding to you — without referring to anything I’ve said to deserve the assessment — is that I’m a šhìŧ.
Let me offer a word of advice to you, Dan. When it comes to looking to anyone around here for tips on proper blog behavior, Mike is not the place to go. Actually, at this point, Mike is someone you should avoid as often as possible. His status as a nuisance, a troll or a trollish presence on these boards is quite legitimately earned. And it’s not just a viewpoint that the posters on this blog have. Note the following exchange from the August 29, 2007 Miss South Carolina Teen thread:
_____________________________________________________________
Posted by: Mike at August 31, 2007 11:48 PM
Are you saying art is qualified by consensus? That if enough people, or one, or the right person disqualifies as art what you are credited with writing, it isn’t art?
No. And no. But thanks for suggesting something that didn’t remotely relate to what I said.
You said “I don’t think that most of the crap that passes for entertainment and music could reasonably be termed art…” but withheld a definition of art. Thank you for making my suggestion — which gives you a point of reference from which to provide a definition of art if you feel like it — relevant regardless of its remoteness from what you are thinking.
Posted by: Peter David at September 1, 2007 01:34 AM
“You said “I don’t think that most of the crap that passes for entertainment and music could reasonably be termed art…” but withheld a definition of art. Thank you for making my suggestion — which gives you a point of reference from which to provide a definition of art if you feel like it — relevant regardless of its remoteness from what you are thinking.”
Didn’t do that either. However, if it’s any consolation, it could be easily said–based upon your track record on this board–that you’ve transformed obtuseness into an art form. So you can take some pride in that, I suppose.
Done with you now.
PAD
____________________________________________________
Just some advice. Ignore or not as you wish.
Dan, notice how Jerry will visit a page to gather evidence, yet obstruct your own review of it by withholding its location.
He only seems to stand by the principle that never let him down: whatever you can get away with is always an option.
Posted by Jerry Chandler
Actually, Jason brings up a good point that I should have thought of due to my own past with the old style BB’s. We’re all answering or disagreeing on our own and as only one person, but we’re doing it at more or less the same time. Dan mentioned above that he’s new to the blog and, from some other comments in that post, I think new to blogging regularly.
(First, if i came across as too snarky, i apologise; this thread has led to all too many people nver before seen here coming in and lecturing us, and i guess i just conflated some of the unfamiliar names… Though Dan was getting a little defensive/everyone’s-out-of-step-but-me by that time, it seemed to me…)
If you think this is bad, you ought to have been in an amateur press alliance, back in the days even before BBS’s. An APA consisted (well, consists, there are a few still going, i’m in one) of paper fanzines containing anything at all the author feels like doing … plus Mailing Comments – responses to *previous* zines by other people. Sorta like a BBS/Usenet group with a latency operiod of two months.
So in January, Member A says something that seems stupid or offensive to some of the other members. By March, he’s thought better of it, and is apologising, but meanwhile, Mwembers X, Y and Z are either correcting him or flaming him.
Come May, Member A is either lashing back at X and Y and telling Z She completely Misunderstood. Meanwhile, Member B is taking A’s side in an intemperate manner, and Member C is telling them all just to Grow Up…
One little remark can lead to literally *years* of bickering. (And entertainment – or otherwise – for the bystanders.)
Posted by Kath the Wife David
Dan Taylor is Dan Taylor. Trust me on this one.
Not, i trust the Dan(iel) Taylor i’ve known for years here in Atlanta…
Although i’m sure Daniel would have a lot better idea how things work – not to mention knowing me and responding differently to my remarks, than we’ve seen…
Posted by Mike
Dan, notice how Jerry will visit a page to gather evidence, yet obstruct your own review of it by withholding its location.
It took me about ten seconds using Google, and about five using the archive listing at the bottom of the page, to find the thread in question. If i really wante do, it ould have taken me just a few more seconds to find your posts in it.
But why would i bother? The thread is over and done, and you contributed nothing but a lowering of the signal-to-noise ratio, anyway.
How does you asking “why would i bother [searching for an unlinked page]?” not simply demonstrate my point?
Dan asked a question, and I provided an answer no one has demonstrated is implausible.
If you think this is bad, you ought to have been in an amateur press alliance, back in the days even before BBS’s. An APA consisted (well, consists, there are a few still going, i’m in one) of paper fanzines containing anything at all the author feels like doing … plus Mailing Comments – responses to *previous* zines by other people. Sorta like a BBS/Usenet group with a latency operiod of two months.
So in January, Member A says something that seems stupid or offensive to some of the other members. By March, he’s thought better of it, and is apologising, but meanwhile, Mwembers X, Y and Z are either correcting him or flaming him.
Come May, Member A is either lashing back at X and Y and telling Z She completely Misunderstood. Meanwhile, Member B is taking A’s side in an intemperate manner, and Member C is telling them all just to Grow Up…
One little remark can lead to literally *years* of bickering. (And entertainment – or otherwise – for the bystanders.)
tell me about it. I was one of the early members of the late great X-APA. At one time it was, pound for pound, the best collection of amateur comics fandom writing around, in my humble opinion. Then there was The Feud. The details of said feud are too silly to mention, but the feeling it created were not. When it was over…so was the apa, more or less. At the very least, the family–and I still consider some of the members to be among my very favorite people ever, even the ones I’ve lost touch with–was never the same.
I’m still glad I was in it–for starters, it’s directly responsible for my meeting my wife. It’s also nice to have the closest thing to a diary I’ve ever kept. But if the internet makes it too easy for trollish dolts like you-know-who to make pests of themselves, the apa made it all too easy for decent people to get embroiled in long term feuds.
I have a feeling apas were a terrifying glimpse into what it will be like to communicate with alien life forms many light years away. One intemperate message and the next thing you know it’s all ray guns and screaming and stuff.
“I have a feeling apas were a terrifying glimpse into what it will be like to communicate with alien life forms many light years away. One intemperate message and the next thing you know it’s all ray guns and screaming and stuff.”
I actually remember something like that idea being used once. The radio series Alien Worlds had an over zealous Earth Force military leader attack a group of aliens because of a communications breakdown with Earth followed by scrambled transmissions from Earth describing an alien assault launched from Mars. After lots of stupidity and unnecessary deaths, the communications net comes back up and the attack is stopped by the not under attack Earth Government. The scrambled communications from Earth detailing the attack was the Mercury Theatre’s War of the Worlds, still traveling through space on it’s trip to infinity.
And then, of course, there’s always Galaxy Quest.
Here’s another one on that theme–Carl Sagan said that some people complained about the plaque put on one of our space probes–Voyager?–that showed two naked humans with the male holding out an upraised arm in greeting because they feared that aliens would misinterpret it as proof that the Nazis won WWII.
I wasm’t actually suggesting that Dan Taylor was not Dan Taylor. I was just surprised by his reaction. although, Jerry is right, he might have felt people were ganging up on him, just like Mike weber felt he was being lectured to by a newcomer. I personaly did not find ang of the replies he received to be very aggresive — I’ve seen worse here — but that’s just my perspective.
In any case, dan Taylor seems to have left. Somebody should develop some sound-emoticon that will sound like a door slamming and play whenever you read the relevant post.
I think that some of the time, but not all, when people misinterpret a message in a way that causes them to perceive it as an insult or offence, it is indicative of their own state of mind — in a way they were looking for a fight or expecting it. But this is not a general rule.
I find the idea of Dan Taylor (or anybody else new to this blog) actually going over any or all of the Mike-discussions we’ve had, to be quite funny. Imagine if aliens got hold of those discussions.
Bill’s observation seems to literally demonstrate the plausibility of my answer to Dan’s question.
“Here’s another one on that theme–Carl Sagan said that some people complained about the plaque put on one of our space probes–Voyager?–that showed two naked humans with the male holding out an upraised arm in greeting because they feared that aliens would misinterpret it as proof that the Nazis won WWII.”
I wonder why they weren’t concerned about the far more likely misinterpretation that the world was conquered by nudists.
PAD
Hello all,
Sorry for going all Howard Dean on y’all…been a bad week at work and I think I’m coming down with a cold…all these posts about my ‘behavior’ on this board didn’t help either.
But step back with me and look at the big piture for a minute, will you?
I voiced my opinions about this UFC thing in one reply. Then, someone mentioned Chicago, and I mentioned the old Chicago Comic-Cons of the early–mid 80’s.
There have been no less than TWENTY-SIX responses back to my UFC rant from yesterday at noon till now, of everyone wanting to get their licks in on that topic–reminded me of vultures swooping down to pick a carcass clean.
Guess how many replies I’ve received on the comparatively innocuous topic of comic book convention history?
Zero. Zip. Nada. No replies.
I mean, in its heyday, the Chicago Comic-Con was almost as big a deal as Worldcon. I didn’t just meet writers and artists there–I mert LEGENDS–Gil Kane, Julie Schwartz, etc. Their panel discussions didn’t take place in some dinky little meeting room—they had them in the hotel BALLROOM.
I’m sorry, I was wrong.
Your need to prove to me that you’re right isn’t incessant.
It’s obsessive.
I tried to take the discussion back to a neutral, civil digression, but you people simply would not let it go.
(Sound of door lock gently clicking shut behind him…)