Took Ariel into the city to meet Ken Jennings, Jeopardy’s all-time champ, who was doing a book signing at the B&N in Union Square. Nattily attired, he kept the audience entertained with a discussion and selected readings of his latest book, “Brainiac” (which, tragically, has nothing to do with supervillains) while discussing his slow progression from closeted trivia master to the poster boy for knowing tons of information others would deem useless (although how anyone can deem something useless when you can use it to rake in $2 milliion-plus is beyond me.)
Sometimes I wonder about the wave of genuine hostility to knowledge that many in this country possess. Whether it’s the disdainful description of experts on topics as “geeks” or “nerds,” or the fact that a minuscule percentage of the consumer base is responsible for the vast majority of books bought, or…let’s face it…that so many people would embrace someone as intellectually stunted as George W. Bush, twice, for the presidency…there just seems to be this antipathy toward intellect that I find disturbing.
I’d like to claim that Jennings’ book is next on my list to read–we got two signed copies, one for Ariel, the other for Kath and myself–but it was abruptly displaced when I noticed to my shock that there was a John Mortimer “Rumpole” novel out that somehow slipped under my radar when it came out in 2004. It’s entitled “The Penge Bungalow Murders,” which Rumpole fans will instantly know as the case the British barrister (so memorably played by the late, great Leo McKern) regularly cited as his career highlight. It’s like stumbling over a Conan Doyle manuscript entitled, “The Adventure of the Giant Rat of Sumatra.” But “Brainiac”–which is not merely autobiographical, but instead an overview of the grand obsession of trivia–is right after that.
Strangest question Jennings got: An arena battle between a T-Rex and one thousand turkeys. Who would win? Jennings opined that it would likely be the T-Rex, but I’m not sure about that. Assuming that the T-Rex would probably be eating the turkeys as he went, I’d think all that tryptophan might start to make him drowsy, and the turkeys could eventually wear him down. In terms of pointless discussions, it’s probably right up there with cavemen versus astronauts.
PAD
• 
“Bill Mulligan — I have to agree with Jerry C. Everyone I know who supported George W. Bush told me some variation of the following: “Yeah, well, at least with Bush you know what you’re getting.””
This is a country who, when its citizens go to foreign countries, like to eat in McDonalds. So I guess it’s to be expected.
“My wife and I are working at having our first kid (no comments please) and your stories of how much of the male brain seems to vacate the skull when exposed to a woman in labor is really freaking me out.”
I’ve been there for the births of all four of my daughters and my brain stayed perfectly intact all four times. I’ll tell you, though, I really liked the hospital where Caroline was born. For the first three, I spent all the hours sitting in a plastic chair. With Caroline, they actually had a couch in the room, and when Kathleen was dozing and I lay down on the couch, the nurse came by and said, “You know, that folds out into a bed.” That was great.
PAD
As for McCain, at this point the only people who could beat him in the primary are Gulliani or Romney.
In that case, he has a lock on the nomination, because neither one of has any chance in the GOP primaries.
I don’t know, Den. Romney has been impressive. I know the Mormon thing will give him trouble and you can be sure that the media will bring it up at every opportunity (to a degree they’d never dream of doing to a Muslim) but he seems to have a good political ear and could potentially turn that into a plus. I’d move him up to second place behind McCain, mostly because Rudy doesn’t seem to be working very hard at the nomination (McCain and Romney most certainly are).
People who say that Rudy or Romeny can’t win the nomination may be underestimating how seriously the Republican base takes a strong stance on home security. Rudy 9/11 actions may mean a lot more than his stand on other social issues. Being pro-choice may be less of a problem if he at least promises not to use an abortion litmus test for judges.
Of course, one more attack on American soil and Rudy might vault up to the head of the track. But for now it’s McCain’s to lose. IMHO, of course, and keeping in mind that I usually predict these things incorrectly, not that this stops me.
Jerry C said (in reponse to my post linking NASCAR and Road Rage):
“…two separate things you dislike…”
Ah, but here you are SOOOOO wrong. I loves me some Road Rage. Practice it every time I drive. It’s one of the things I do best.
Bill, if you are generally wrong in your predictions then I must ask you to stop predicting McCain’s victory. I like McCain. Given that the Democrats aren’t likely to field anyone worth a dámņ (I don’t hate Hillary like so many frothing-at-the-mouth types do, but I also don’t think she’s presidential material), it would be nice to have a real choice in 2008.
As for McCain’s ticker, I love the use of the phrase “ill-timed heart attack.” I betcha McCain would tell you there is no such thing as a “well-timed heart attack” for him. 🙂
Posted by: Alan Coil at September 17, 2006 12:44 PM
I loves me some Road Rage. Practice it every time I drive. It’s one of the things I do best.
Yeah, that’s not exactly something I’d brag about, y’know?
Jerry C said:
“…gumball machine technique…”
Jerry, did you find that technique in the Kama Sutra?
—The election of 2000 v. the election of 2004—
The election was more about “stay the course” as opposed to making a change.
The election of 2000 was the one that was more about “which one I’d rather drink a beer with”.
(Notice the anti-intellectual use of a preposition at the end of the sentence.)
“The election was more about “stay the course” as opposed to making a change.”
True to some degree. The argument could also be made, and has been in many places, that people who were very much less then thrilled with Bush’s course voted Bush because they liked Kerry’s course even less. It wasn’t the greatest choice of either/or for a lot of people.
But that still does not negate some of the things said in some circles of Bush backers and Kerry haters.
When an editor dared to change a sentence of Churchill’s that appeared to end inappropriately with a preposition, Churchill responded by writing to the editor, “This is the kind of impertinence up with which I shall not put.”
You know, I think there’s something to be said for what a couple of previous posters have pointed out about the appeal of a more simplistic message. It’s like that episode of Seinfeld where George talks about enjoying Kenny Banya’s comedy, because you don’t have to think about it too much. For better or worse, the current administration has a spectacularly effective way of boiling things down a pithy sound bite that people remember. That’s why a phrase like ‘Cut and run’ inflicts so much damage on the Dems: they just don’t have an equally pithy counterpoint, so they can stand up and say something like,’Cut and run? How about stay and die?’ or something much cleverer than that. Basically you have to balance the GOP message perfectly, like two sides of an equation. And as a few people pointed out earlier, neither Gore nor Kerry were able to boil their message down to ten words or less. They’re just not hard-wired that way. And to this day, it still puzzles me that there is nobody on the Democratic side of the aisle that can explain to their candidates that there’s no point in giving a ten-minute, carefully constructed rebuttal when just 15 seconds of it will aire on the nightly news. No wonder Kerry always sounded a bit befuddled, whereas Bush can deliver those sound bites just fine, no doubt after rehearsing them a couple of dozen times with Rove and a few key advisors. But that said, Bush’s weakness has always been when we has to move off script for any length of time, which is when his lack of verbal skills often betrays him.
Does this mean that Gore and/or Kerry are smarter than Bush. On a sheer intelligence level, I would say yes. But since Bush has been successfully getting a clear, if wrong-headed message out for half a decade, maybe you could argue that he’s actually the smarter one. I know, it pains me to say it but I’m starting to think that maybe it’s true.
Well, Tim’s Joe Robertson quote re: Jolly Jonah had already put me in mind of a particular song; Sean’s – pretty good – analogy of Bush to a computer, and mentioning seeing no gray, sealed it.
From Billy Joel’s “Shades Of Grey” –
“Now with the wisdom of years
I try to reason things out
And the only people I fear
Are those who never have doubts
Save us all from arrogant men
And all the causes they’re for
I won’t be righteous again
I’m not that sure anymore”
You know, leaving the purely political spectrum for a moment, I wonder how much of what appears to by hostility toward knowledge is actually a fear of leaving ones’ comfort zone or the desire to not let go of long held and deeply cherished beliefs.
I made the ever so slight mistake of reading Misquoting Jesus in a public area the other day. Two older middle-aged women were sitting at the table across from mine and one of the muttered, just loud enough to be heard, something about what kind of trash people buy or read these days. When I looked up and saw that she was looking at me I, being an idiot, asked her if she was talking to me.
She then went on about the type of garbage I was reading and how the so called intellectuals were ruining this country and their attacking Christianity blah, blah, blah. I pointed out that the book didn’t attack Christianity, said Christianity was in fact a good thing and merely pointed out how and why some translation flaws in biblical texts had popped up over the ages. After her reply showed that she had her mind made up I smartened up and went back to my coffee and reading after moving a few tables down.
Now, was she just an O’Reilly level prìçk or was she genuinely, if wrongly, offended by “intellectuals” in the country trying to change what she deeply believes to be the truth?
The times that I see people most strongly hostile to knowledge or “intellectuals”, outside of politics, is usually when the subject being addressed is the correction of a long held belief that is in fact wrong. Mary of the Bible wasn’t a prostitute, the Founding Fathers weren’t all devoted, Bible thumping Christians, they also didn’t have a majority of members die broke or on the run from the British, Columbus didn’t set out to prove that the world was round, Washington didn’t throw his coin across the river or stand, in the much smaller boats then depicted, during the crossing, Paul Revere’s ride was nothing like what most people believe and others did most the riding for him, Benedict Arnold was a great American hero who saved the Revolution at Saratoga before becoming an infamous traitor, there were black slave owners in the U.S., most of the fact based books on the Old West’s gunslingers and outlaws are fiction and so on.
There is no amount of proof that you can show some people if it means that they most give up a cherished belief that they’ve held for a lifetime. They know its true, everybody they grew up with knew it was true and, besides, their teacher told them it was true. Those pinheaded intellectuals don’t know what their talking about.
I had a History Professor who loved to teach like few people I have ever known. But he hated the first half of the school year in classes where he was dealing with first year college students. He used to say that history was traditionally one of the courses where you had to get your students to unlearn huge chunks of wrong knowledge that they had learned for years in school. He would illustrate this by starting the year out by handing out high school or junior high school history books with highlighted sections, break the class into groups and tell each group to track their historical fact back to the best source they could find. My group got a quote from Madison about the place of God in our society (I don’t remember the quote). We thought that was cool as hëll. Little or no work. We’re in Central Virginia. The keeper of Madison’s papers was, basically, right down the street. Then we found out that the quote existed nowhere in any of his papers or works. Two weeks later, the best source we had for the quote was an article in old issue of Boy’s Life where the writer referenced his dad or granddad for the quote in the body of the article. Most the groups came back with weird sources like that.
He said that many K-12 books at the time, and I don’t know how much it’s changed in the years since, weren’t put together by teachers, educators or scholars in most cases. They were simply thrown together by whatever group was put together by the printing company to do the job. Often they pulled together “history” from other books in their inventory or whatever quick sources they could find. Often they were Boy’s Life types of magazines or books. Nice stuff but more full of feel good urban myths about history then actual, hard, fact based history.
Some of us thought it was cool that we were going to unlearn junk and relearn good stuff along with a foundation to check up the stuff we wanted to. But there were some students that didn’t like the idea that they were being told that things they knew to be true their entire lives, however short, just wasn’t so.
Why am I telling you this long and possibly dull story?
“Sometimes I wonder about the wave of genuine hostility to knowledge that many in this country possess.”
I’m 35. I went to schools with textbooks that still said Betsy Ross made the first U.S. flag and had historical events leading up to wars out of order or omitted entirely to create a different picture of events. I couldn’t be from the last class to have had books like that. Hëll, there are poorer school districts all over the country that complain about their budget and point out that their textbooks are five to ten years out of date. Look at how many more people there are in the U.S. older then my generation. A whole lot of them must have had the same type of history books. Now take into account the relatively small number of those people who had at least a year or more of college to undo some of that or who at least got bit by the bug to go out and learn as much as they could on their own.
You have a lot of people in this country who are being told that they’re wrong in their lifetime’s belief. Take into account that, with history, some facts about actual history don’t always make the good old U.S. of A. look like it’s always acting as the greatest, most loving or most benevolent and charitable of countries. Then you have people angry because the facts aren’t what they know to be true and you’re obviously part of that pinheaded, liberal intellectual hate America first crowd.
Now throw in knowledge being espoused about common misconceptions in science, medicine, cultural matters and religion. You, me and lots of other people are likely to think that’s cool, check it out for ourselves and see if there’s anything to what’s being said. But a lot of people are going to be hostile to both the knowledge and the knowledge givers because it’s stripping away the comfortable stability of lifelong held beliefs. That makes some people resentful or afraid. Both of those feelings are often acted upon with anger.
Then some opportunist comes along and plays pied piper. Follow me and I’ll tell you comforting “truths” and protect you from those frauds and charlatans that want to attack with their lies the foundations of life we hold so dear. Come with me and I’ll help you fight back. People are going to gravitate to what they want to hear as often, if not more often, then they will towards something that they don’t want to hear.
Is that an explanation for everyone’s apparent “hostility” towards knowledge? No. I’ve known jocks and GQ types who boast that they didn’t read (the word being said in the most insulting manner they could muster) because they were cool and reading was for nerds. They’re just morons. But it is a thought, an extremely long winded thought, on maybe why so many people will so willing sign up with the mob that’s standing against whatever knowledge or intellectual is the target of the week of the pied piper of the moment. They may not actually hate the knowledge itself. They may just not want to give up the security of the familiar and what they “know” to be “right”.
And it’ll take a better man then me to figure out a solution for that kind thing.
Rudy and Romney are doomed because because the Christian fundamentalists vote in the GOP primaries in overwhelming numbers. That’s why McCain is busy sucking up to them right now. He doesn’t want another phone campaign accusing him of fathering an illegitimate black child.
To be honest, Bill, I don’t think national security is going to be a factor in the primary, but most GOP primary voters consider any republican to be better than any democrat on security. It’ll only be an issue in the general election.
I had to stifle a laugh when I read Peter’s McDonald’s in foreign countries line. See, I have a beloved picture of Stacie kissing a Wendy’s sign in St. Thomas. Now, under NORMAL circumstances, we never would’ve thought about it, but she was REALLY hung over, and all the rich food on the ship we were on was a little too much for her.
And you had a couch for Caroline’s delivery? Eesh, we barely had a doctor for Brian’s!
Jerry made me think of something that happened when I was a senior in high school. While I was still in my history class, my teacher talked about how Americans blamed Jews for the death of Jesus before WWII, and how the war just made them stop saying it. Now, my sainted mother, who was around 10 years old when the war broke out, had a thing or two to say about that. He doesn’t teach it that way anymore. I don’t think most people can seperate the FACTS of history with their own INTERPRETATION of said facts, regardless of what the texts say. And, since most people are taught that way, and hardly any do anything further with history once they’re out of school, that’s what they continue to believe. If they remember it at all.
I had to stifle a laugh when I read Peter’s McDonald’s in foreign countries line.
I couldn’t decide whether to laugh or cringe.
When I was in New Zealand last month, we ate at a Denny’s, KFC a couple of times, McDonald’s, a Domino’s and a Subway.
When it comes down to it, for me, eating at “American” places is as much because you actually like the food served as it is because they’re familiar, or even in some cases, because it’s purely a matter of convenience.
I put American in quotes because, in some cases, they really are just local joints with American names. Denny’s and Domino are being prime examples – their menus were way more varied and better than here in the States.
I like eating at Subway, but even at burger joints, the food is generally healthier than what you’ll get here, especially when a company like McDonald’s resists changing their unhealthy cooking oil here in the US when they’ve changed it to a far healthier alternative in the rest of the world.
But, as I said with convenience, if you’ve just gotten into a town after dark, and you’re only staying the night to catch a bus somewhere else in the morning, then, yeah, McDonald’s will usually suffice. 🙂
Posted by Luke K. Walsh at September 17, 2006 02:20 PM
Sean’s – pretty good – analogy of Bush to a computer, and mentioning seeing no gray, sealed it.
From Billy Joel’s “Shades Of Grey”
Even more succinctly, from Dylan:
Posted by Luke K. Walsh at September 17, 2006 02:20 PM
Sean’s – pretty good – analogy of Bush to a computer, and mentioning seeing no gray, sealed it.
From Billy Joel’s “Shades Of Grey”
Even more succinctly, from Dylan:
Posted by Luke K. Walsh at September 17, 2006 02:20 PM
Sean’s – pretty good – analogy of Bush to a computer, and mentioning seeing no gray, sealed it.
From Billy Joel’s “Shades Of Grey”
Even more succinctly, from Dylan:
Sorry to reply so late–I have a life and quite frankly, had a wonderful weekend.
“I applaud you on your defeat of such a callous, base villain. Maybe you’ll get a story out of it.”
Awww, but Dan…you’re such a funny guy! At least that’s what you’ve been claiming. Certainly you can appreciate the humor, right? Right?
The fact is that at least half a dozen posters have had their messages rejected or been unable to post at various times because (unbeknownst to them) of spam filters, and every single one has written to me and said, basically, “Hey, what’s up with this? What did I say that was inflammatory?” Only you, the King of Comedy, flashed his stigmata, complained how ill treated you were, accused me of censorship and then went fetal…and never even bothered to apologize for your accusations when they were proven wrong.
I’m saying that claiming hey, you’re just goofing around, while at the same time calling people names and then claiming you’re being ill-used when your attitudes cause you to be dismissed out of hand, is not a good mix. What you think of as humor or even expressing a differing opinion comes across as mere petulance. So if people treat you with the same weight they’d give a ten year old banging on kitchen pots to get attention, you’ll understand why. Or, more likely, you won’t. You’ll just feel you’re misunderstood and mean old Peter David and his drones beat down someone who disagreed with them. If it’s of any consolation, I’m sure you’re not alone. Trolls tend to come and go here; the people of real consequence, even those I disagree with, tend to hang around and contribute.
Where you fall in that category is up to you. But you may want to consider dropping the martyr bit. It doesn’t really play well.
PAD “
Again Mighty Zeus and his godlings speak from on high to lavish his wisdom upon mere mortals such as myself. And as usual,he knows how I will respond even before I take action.
He knows full well that as the angry mere mortal (Or Titan, as the case may be), shaking his torch-wielding fist at Olympus, that I will take the latter position…
And so Prometheus, justified in his beliefs, accepts his punishment as a MAN and daily awaits the talons of Ethon…
———————-
To Alan Coil–RE: me as Dan Nakagawa–I could be all, I could be none…does it really matter?
“Painful is silence; everywhere is woe.
For when the high Gods fell on mood of wrath
And hot debate of mutual strife was stirred,
Some wishing to hurl Cronos from his throne,
That Zeus, forsooth, might reign; while others strove,
Eager that Zeus might never rule the Gods:
Then I, full strongly seeking to persuade
The Titans, yea, the sons of Heaven and Earth,
Failed of my purpose. Scorning subtle arts,
With counsels violent, they thought that they
By force would gain full easy mastery.
But then not once or twice my mother Themis
And earth, one form though bearing many names,
Had prophesied the future, how ’twould run,
That not by strength nor yet by violence,
But guile, should those who prospered gain the day.
And when in my words I this counsel gave,
They deigned not e’en to glance at it at all.
And then of all that offered, it seemed best
To join my mother, and of mine own will,
Not against His will, take my side with Zeus,
And by my counsels, mine, the dark deep pit
Of Tartaros the ancient Cronos holds,
Himself and his allies. Thus profiting
By me, the mighty ruler of the Gods
Repays me with these evil penalties:
For somehow this disease in sovereignty
Inheres, of never trusting to one’s friends. 15
And since ye ask me under what pretence
He thus maltreats me, I will show it you:
For soon as He upon His father’s throne
Had sat secure, forthwith to divers Gods
He divers gifts distributed, and His realm
Began to order. But of mortal men
He took no heed, but purposed utterly
To crush their race and plant another new;
And, I excepted, none dared cross His will;
But I did dare, and mortal men I freed
From passing on to Hades thunder-stricken;
And therefore am I bound beneath these woes,
Dreadful to suffer, pitiable to see:
And I, who in my pity thought of men
More than myself, have not been worthy deemed
To gain like favour, but all ruthlessly
I thus am chained, foul shame this sight to Zeus.”
—Prometheus Bound, Aeschylus (525–456 B.C.)
“”Bill Mulligan — I have to agree with Jerry C. Everyone I know who supported George W. Bush told me some variation of the following: “Yeah, well, at least with Bush you know what you’re getting.””
This is a country who, when its citizens go to foreign countries, like to eat in McDonalds. So I guess it’s to be expected.
————————————
So what? Americans eat a lot of McDonalds’ food here in the USA too..Oh I GET IT!!! You’re implying that Americans are so stupid that they don’t even bother sampling the local cuisine!!!
Ha HA! Sarcasm! I get how its done now!!!
You have to be the owner of the blog in order for it to be FUNNY!!!!
Wow, what an education!
I tell ya, the touch of the Master’s hand….
“”Bill Mulligan — I have to agree with Jerry C. Everyone I know who supported George W. Bush told me some variation of the following: “Yeah, well, at least with Bush you know what you’re getting.””
This is a country who, when its citizens go to foreign countries, like to eat in McDonalds. So I guess it’s to be expected.
————————————
So what? Americans eat a lot of McDonalds’ food here in the USA too..Oooooooh I GET IT!!! You’re implying that Americans are so stupid that they don’t even bother sampling the local cuisine!!!
Ha HA! Sarcasm! I get how its done now!!!
You have to be the owner of the blog in order for it to be FUNNY!!!!
Wow, what an education!
I tell ya, the touch of the Master’s hand….
Before anyone says anything, yes I know it got posted twice, however Bill Myers did the same thing on this thread at on September 16 at 10:33am and 10:34am, I figured it was ok…
Oh yeah. Nice to know Dan took the advice to heart.
Dovetails nicely with Jerry’s treatise on how people are reluctant to give up dearly held beliefs. In Dan’s case, it’s that he’s a misunderstood martyr. He’s now recast himself as a titan bringing mankind the fire/knowledge and being disemboweled by vultures (read: Us) for his trouble.
And into the “ignore” pile he goes…
PAD
Oy…
Oh well, at least I get to be a Godling. Cool.
Way to go, Danno! That’ll show them you’re not a troll!
-Rex Hondo-
I need to practice my nit-picking skills…
“He knows full well that as the angry mere mortal (Or Titan, as the case may be), shaking his torch-wielding fist at Olympus, that I will take the latter position…
And so Prometheus, justified in his beliefs, accepts his punishment as a MAN and daily awaits the talons of Ethon.”
As a Titan, Promeheus isn’t a mortal. He’s a proto-god, if anything, and thus immortal. He did, however, create a race of mortals.
Jerry C, don’t sweat the delivery thing. It’s not so much that men’s brains freeze up during the delivery. I think it’s got more to do with the fact that there’s a room full of people that deliver babies on a daily basis around you that know what they are doing, and you (the father) end up watching and not having anything to do, and now knowing what you’d do anyway even if there were something you could do. You don’ freeze up so much as feel like you should be as active as everyone else in the room, but knowing that if you were to be active, you’d just mess something up.
“And so Prometheus, justified in his beliefs, accepts his punishment as a MAN and daily awaits the talons of Ethon.”
As a Titan, Promeheus isn’t a mortal. He’s a proto-god, if anything, and thus immortal. He did, however, create a race of mortals.”
————————————
I know that, Bob. I meant “MAN” not in the mortal sense, but as in the expression “take it like a man.”
“Oh yeah. Nice to know Dan took the advice to heart.
Dovetails nicely with Jerry’s treatise on how people are reluctant to give up dearly held beliefs. In Dan’s case, it’s that he’s a misunderstood martyr. He’s now recast himself as a titan bringing mankind the fire/knowledge and being disemboweled by vultures (read: Us) for his trouble.
And into the “ignore” pile he goes…
PAD”
Actually, Ethon was an Eagle, not a vulture.
But, if the shoe fits….
(Ðámņ shame you can’t ban me, isn’t it?)
“Way to go, Danno! That’ll show them you’re not a troll!
-Rex Hondo-“
Trolls don’t read literature, much less quote it (and quote it appropriately).
“Oy…
Oh well, at least I get to be a Godling. Cool”
Yeah, like you guys would’ve come up with the Prometheus analogy.
Right. And you all are supposed to be creators? (well, Myers and Peter are…)
I thought creators were supposed to be creative?
Me? I’m just your dumb ol’ consumer…You create the books, I buy the books, read the books, bag the books and box up the books and 20 years later I toss out the books, cuz’ they ain’t worth diddly-squat on E-Bay….
Investment my ášš…
Dan, in the interests of fairness and accuracy, I am not a professional comic-book creator. At the moment it is a hobby I hope to turn into a career. To say that “Myers and Peter” are fellow creators is like saying a guy who plays flag football and Tom Brady are fellow athletes. Peter is a professional writer. I, at the moment, am not.
I’ve always made my amateur status clear whenever I’ve mentioned my aspirations in my postings here.
“Dan, in the interests of fairness and accuracy, I am not a professional comic-book creator. At the moment it is a hobby I hope to turn into a career. To say that “Myers and Peter” are fellow creators is like saying a guy who plays flag football and Tom Brady are fellow athletes. Peter is a professional writer. I, at the moment, am not.
I’ve always made my amateur status clear whenever I’ve mentioned my aspirations in my postings here. “
Guess your status as Godling is appropriate then…
Dan,
I’ve been given so many second and third chances in life that I tend to want to return the favor in my dealings with others. I’ll try this one, and just one, last time.
You came in and went from zero to sixty in one post. You said a few things that were maybe not that well phrased and you used your humor in places where, not knowing you at all, some people didn’t know if it was to be taken as humor or insult. People reacted badly towards the posts and you.
You said you were trying to be funny. You were just adding a bit of humor into the exchange. Some of us tried to meet you half way. I’m not going to write again everything that was posted before since I’m sure you read the posts already already. If not, look those posts up, read them and think about taking the advice. Some of us did offer the second chance olive branch.
But then you seem have gone and decided to notch it up and go from sixty to one hundred instead and try to run over us. You’ve also wrongly taken to seeing everything as what you view as the worst it could be. You seem to come of as wanting to take anything from the spam filter to posters comments as deeply personal as you can.
Don’t, ’cause it ain’t.
Again, if you’re really telling the truth about just wanting to join in the fun, all you have to do is chill out, start over and maybe build back up to sixty a little more slowly. You’ll have more fun that way.
“Trolls don’t read literature, much less quote it (and quote it appropriately).”
If they only use it to be a pest then yes they can.
“Ðámņ shame you can’t ban me, isn’t it?”
No, but if you go out of your way to be a pest towards him then he can disemvowel you.
Archives, July 2005. Got to the bottom of the page.
🙂
(Ðámņ shame you can’t ban me, isn’t it?)
Dan, you’re laboring under a serious misconception here.
Peter can ban you. Any time he feels like it.
He chooses not to ban people except under extremely egregious circumstances.
That is a major difference, albeit one you’re either going to have trouble with or ignore.
That said, if you really WANT to get banned, I’m sure you can read through past threads and figure out what sort of things will bring it about.
And “trolls don’t read literature” is the biggest load of crap I’ve seen in a very long time. (I’d make a Fish Called Wanda reference here, but that’s in another thread and I’d hate to confuse you.) Trolls, at least good ones, will assume exactly as much intelligence as they need to try to get a firestorm going.
BAD trolls don’t read literature or quote it appropriately. At the moment, you’re proving to be a very talented one.
But we can hear the trip-trap, trip-trap, trip-trap just the same.
TWL
“”And so Prometheus, justified in his beliefs, accepts his punishment as a MAN and daily awaits the talons of Ethon.”
As a Titan, Promeheus isn’t a mortal. He’s a proto-god, if anything, and thus immortal. He did, however, create a race of mortals.”
————————————
I know that, Bob. I meant “MAN” not in the mortal sense, but as in the expression “take it like a man.””
But the analogy doesn’t really hold true here. Prometheus’ son and wife cared from him while he was imprisoned, and defended him from Ethon until Hercules/Herakles came along and defeated Ethon. Were Prometheus really taking his punishment “like a man,” he’d have gritted his teeth while his liver was chewed every day, not allowing his family to try and protect him.
At the risk of throwing another log on the fire for those-inclined-to-argue-politics, I note that the Washington Post is reporting that Al Gore is to publish a book in 2008 called “The Assault on Reason” described by editor Scott Moyers as “a meditation on how ‘the public arena has grown more hostire to reason’ and how solving problems such as global warming is impeded by a political culture with a pervasive ‘unwillingness to let facts drive decisions.’ ” (http://tinyurl.com/zax47 )
To give equal time to the Republicans, I note that the October 2006 issue of Discover Magazine has an interview with Newt Gingrich in which the former Speaker of the House opines quite thoughtfully about science education and policy.
Though perhaps tangential to the topics and arguments raging on this discussion, both of these developments might give hope to those who want to think that there exist some opposing forces to whatever anti-intellectualism may be running through the culture…
To Jerry C:
I appreciate someone finally trying to be civil with me, but at the risk of once again being trollish, I must once again take to task come of the things you wrote:
“People reacted badly towards the posts and you.”
——————–
I appreciate your admitting that to me, although I am sure that other individuals on this board may take YOU to task over that sentiment.
“Some of us did offer the second chance olive branch”
———————–
Perhaps, but to me it looked less like an olive branh and more like the blue pill from the Matrix.
———————-
“You seem to come of as wanting to take anything from the spam filter to posters comments as deeply personal as you can.
Don’t, ’cause it ain’t.”
————————–
Really? Tell that to Bill Myers. Not only does he think I’ve been personally attacking him from the very beginning, but he thinks I do this to somehow gain his attention or curry his favor.
I don’t know the man, nor do I care to. I’ve been to his website…I can count on two hands the number of people that have contributed to his blog…Chirst, I don’t think I’ve even seen a posting on it by Peter David, and here Myers is practically Peter’s number one fan (just an observation)
———————-
“Again, if you’re really telling the truth about just wanting to join in the fun, all you have to do is chill out, start over and maybe build back up to sixty a little more slowly. You’ll have more fun that way.”
———————
Maybe its my writing style. Maybe I come on a bit strong for you people. I say what I think I need to say, then I get out, with just enough verbage to get my point across. One thing I’ve noticed about you people is that more often than not, you seem to spend paragraphs expressing an opinion when only a few sentences are necessary (again, an observation, not a criticism.)
Its a style I’ve noticed in quite a few writers–my favorites–Harlan Ellison, Spider Robinson, Mike Resnick, and yes, Peter David.
I don’t like to be force-fed ideas. I like for the writer to write just enough to let my imagination fill in the rest. I’m a fairly intelligent adult–don’t worry, I can figure it out.
——————————————
“”Ðámņ shame you can’t ban me, isn’t it?”
No, but if you go out of your way to be a pest towards him then he can disemvowel you.”
You’re saying he can force me to stop using the letters A,E,I,O,U…and sometimes Y? Wll, gss bttr wtch wht sy, hdn’t ? (grin)
His rule of maintaining a ‘civil tone’ is rather confusing. If he is saying that I need to start writing 3-4 paragraph treaties on why I think evil is ‘bad’, then I guess I’d better move on, cuz’ I can’t do that–I find that boring. Say what you want to say and then get out so that the other guy can respond. The you respond to what he says.
I try to be confident in what I say and only say what I mean, even when I’m trying to be ‘funny.’
I will not use profanity..if you (not YOU, personally…the ‘royal’ you…) have to resort to interjecting profanity into phrases like “grow the f*ck up”, or “stop being a pr*ck”, then you truly are a knuckle-dragger and not worth MY time.
But a lot of people are going to be hostile to both the knowledge and the knowledge givers because it’s stripping away the comfortable stability of lifelong held beliefs. That makes some people resentful or afraid. Both of those feelings are often acted upon with anger.
excellent post, Jerry C
I put American in quotes because, in some cases, they really are just local joints with American names. Denny’s and Domino are being prime examples – their menus were way more varied and better than here in the States.
friend of mine did his student teaching at an army base in Germany. his (and the other student teachers’) first night there the guy who was showing them around told them they were going to McDonald’s.
the general response was, ‘but we can go to McDonald’s back home.’
‘yeah, but what type of beer do they serve at your McDonald’s?’
To Jerry C:
You know, you’re right…guess I’m the only one that says insulting things.
I turn your attention to July 2005, the thread entitled “This just in…”
As an Asian-American,I found that whole thread to be extremely offensive. You people ought to be ashamed of yourselves. I may call you ‘bucko’, but your offensiveness tips the scale if the first thing you can think of when you think “Japan” in Godzilla (and to quote the American movie, “its GOJIRA, you idiot!”
Thank you all. I feel much, much better
It is nice to know that I’m no more offensive that you people are, and what a bunch of dammned hypocrites you all turned out to be.
Jerry C, don’t sweat the delivery thing. It’s not so much that men’s brains freeze up during the delivery. I think it’s got more to do with the fact that there’s a room full of people that deliver babies on a daily basis around you that know what they are doing, and you (the father) end up watching and not having anything to do, and now knowing what you’d do anyway even if there were something you could do. You don’ freeze up so much as feel like you should be as active as everyone else in the room, but knowing that if you were to be active, you’d just mess something up.
the day i was delivered my dad spent most of the day fixing some machine the hospital needed to hook my mom up to.
i don’t recall if it was broken or if they just didn’t have anyone who knew how to operate it. anyway, it helped my dad not go nuts.
Posted by Dan Nakagawa
I may call you ‘bucko’, but your offensiveness tips the scale if the first thing you can think of when you think “Japan” in Godzilla (and to quote the American movie, “its GOJIRA, you idiot!”
Those who find that offensive are thin-skinned. A statement’s or idea’s level of offensiveness should never be based on the thin-skinned.
Besides, I live in Oklahoma USA. I wish that my state’s stereotype was a giant, radioactive monster instead of a rolling dustbowl/prarie with cowboys shootin’ up injuns.
J H C on a pogo stick, Dan, I think you’ve totally lost it.
You know what the problem is with saying your piece as briefly as you can, and then getting out to let the other goy say his piece? It’s that sometimes a complex idea isn’t well conveyed in a short sentence or two. Like your Prometheus analogy. On the surface, it may look like a good choice for you to use. But any in-depth examination of it reveals that there’s very little in the way of genuine parallels between the punishment inflicted upon Prometheus and the events that have occurred here regarding you.
If you don’t understand that for American Godzilla fans, any extraordinary oceanic activity near Japan really IS going to conjure thoughts of the Big G, then you don’t understand American Godzilla fans. And in a comic-related community, I’d guess you’d find a pretty good number of Godzilla fans (and yes, it may be Gojira in Japanese, but we aren’t typing in Japanese, we’re typing in English, and in English, it’s Godzilla).
In what was was that thread offensive? There’s nothing that I saw that should be offensive to the Japanese. If anything, it’s a testament to the success of one of their (if not THE greatest Japanese entertainment export) that a bunch of yanks half a world away know so much about the character.
Which gets back the to topic of this thread. Dan N. is like the poster child for intelligence that refueses to let a little thing like facts and knowledge get in the way of a good preconcieved idea. Dan thinks he’s being targeted by this community, and abused, and makes himself out to be a martyr. So he goes out and finds a thread that contains a humorous dialogue on Godzilla, and parades it as an example of how the board members are just as offensive as he’s being accused of being.
Fact: there’s only 2, maybe three, posters in common between the two threads.
Fact: Most, if not all, of the comments on the other thread are expressed in terms of admiration of Godzilla, an entirely Japanes creation.
Fact: If there’s a derrogatory Japanese comment in that thread, I missed it.
Despite this, Dan tells us we’re hypocritical because we lambast him for having an abusive, personally affronting tone. Dan’s expressed some complex and cogent ideas, so we know he’s not dumb. He just refuses to let his brain assimilate facts which allow him to make good decisions and draw correct conclusions. Which makes him look like an idiot.
“Those who find that offensive are thin-skinned. A statement’s or idea’s level of offensiveness should never be based on the thin-skinned.
Besides, I live in Oklahoma USA. I wish that my state’s stereotype was a giant, radioactive monster instead of a rolling dustbowl/prarie with cowboys shootin’ up injuns.”
So, I take it then, you LIKE the dustbowl/prarie/Cowboy/injun stereotype? You embrace it? You pattern your own personal culture around it? It doesn’t offend you in the least if I were to come up to you and call you ‘pardner’ or ‘buckaroo’? ‘Wanna rustle up some grub?’
You would not be offended if, when people visit your hometown, no matter how much you’ve worked to modernize the image, all they remember are cowboys/injuns/dustbowl?
You would LIKE to be remembered as a stereotype?
Really? And you would not be the slightest bit tired of being tied to that stereotype?
You don’t want them to know that the Oklahoma has a rich Native American history, where the Witchita, Osage, Caddo and Quapaw tribes lived? You don’t want them to remember Steinback’s “The Grapes of Wrath”, or the “Black Wall Street” of Northern Tulsa?
My point is that it isn’t a matter of being thick or thin-skinned–you shouldn’t have to tolerate stereotypes–especially not in this day and age.
You may not give it a second thought, but speaking as a minority, I’m sick and tired of having Japan’s image tied to that stuipid lizard…
Ok, Dan, now you are just acting like an idiot. That’s not the same thing as actually being and idiot but it’s close enough.
You’re lucky it’s been a slow news week, you’ve managed to get the attention you so desperately crave (your constant cracks at Bill Myers suggest that one cut deep) but you’re beginning to exhaust your limited repertoire. For a guy who dislocates his shoulder from the constant back patting over his supposed ability to say things in a few short pithy sentences, you sure do seem to be endlessly repeating the same tired points over and over and over…
I mean, are you serious? As an Asian-American,I found that whole thread to be extremely offensive. You people ought to be ashamed of yourselves. I may call you ‘bucko’, but your offensiveness tips the scale if the first thing you can think of when you think “Japan” in Godzilla (and to quote the American movie, “its GOJIRA, you idiot!” Holy crap. It works best if you read that in a thin whiney voice, like an 11 year old feigning outrage. I’ve known a few people of Japanese descent (my stepson, for one) and they make more Godzilla jokes than I do. Which is saying something. But then they, unlike you, are actually funny, though they brag about it far less often than you do. There’s a lesson there.
(And it’s Godzilla here. Showing off by insisting that it’s Gojira would be as stupid as insisting that The Seven Samurai be referred to as Shichinin no samurai. Being a knowledgable jerk is only a little better than being a jerk.).
I normally don’t like name calling but nothing seems to be getting through to you. You’re bright but clueless. Is this some kind of performance art? Someone from the John Byrne board here to teach us a lesson about how they feel we go on their board and start trouble? Fodder for an article? (I Was An Internet Troll: One Man’s Story). Are you like this with everyone?
As for your comments on Bill Myer’s blog- I don’t know why you would expect to see PAD blogging there when he has plenty of opportunity to comment on what we say here. Peter doesn’t comment often on his wife’s blog either. This must baffle and confuse you.
You could have been welcome here but that wasn’t your agenda. There are a couple of people who may enjoy having you around for easy target practice but I’ll bet I speak for the majority when I say: “Bored now.”
Bob Alfred states:
“He just refuses to let his brain assimilate facts which allow him to make good decisions and draw correct conclusions. Which makes him look like an idiot.”
—————————–
“good decisions” and “correct conclusions”—what a bunch of elitist crap.
‘Oh, we’re not denegrating the Japanese culture, we’re just big Godzilla fans!’
Yeah, that’s like Japanese reducing the sum total of American culture into Ronald McDonald…I’m sure you’d really enjoy that…
Bill Mulligan:
“You could have been welcome here but that wasn’t your agenda. There are a couple of people who may enjoy having you around for easy target practice but I’ll bet I speak for the majority when I say: “Bored now.”
————————
Now I know how the Stepford Husbands felt….