While out in San Diego, Ariel and I took in “My Super Ex-Girlfriend.” I have to admit going in, I’m a sucker for Uma Thurman and Eddie Izzard. So I was predisposed to enjoy it, plus we had a good audience, plus my leg was hurting so I was doped up on Vicodin and probably would have applauded a Bush press conference. Thus I have to cop to the fact that I liked it, or at least I think I did.
But–and I’m probably going to do a more detailed “But I Digress” on this later–I find it interesting that fans deplored the scene in “Superman Returns” wherein our hero uses his X-ray vision and superhearing to spy on Lois and her family. “He’s stalking her” was the cry, and that was universally seen as A Very Bad Thing. But Thurman’s G-Girl not only stalks the boyfriend who dumps her because she’s a controlling, needy flake. She harasses him, destroys his property, and dámņëd near kills him. And it’s a comedy. It occurred to me that if you flipped the genders–if it was a girlfriend being harassed by an unrelentingly angry super boyfriend–there is absolutely no way it’s a comedy. It’s…I dunno…a thriller. A horror film. Anything except a comedy, because pìššëd øff girlfriend goes after guy = comedy, unless, y’know, the ex is Glenn Close. But if it’s pìššëd øff boyfriend going after girl, the threat aspect will completely overwhelm whatever comedy you’re going for.
You can do a comedy with a girl going after a guy (Super-Ex). You can do a comedy about a group of girls going after a guy (John Tucker Must Die). You can even do a comedy about a girl going after another girl or group of girls (Bad Girls). But a guy going after a girl who done him wrong? *Is* there a comedy–at least a successful one–ever made on that theme?
PAD
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Diangerous Liasons and Cruel Intentions come to mind. They certainly have comedic moments. As to others? I’ll get back to you.
It’s hard to do a comedy in which the party with historical societal power (aka The Default, aka The Guy) harasses the party which is historically powerless societally (aka The Other, aka The Gal), because harassment, oppression, etc. are serious issues and are perpetuated, in the vast majority of cases, by those with power over those without. The idea of the oppressed turning the tables on the oppressors is part of successful satire, particularly when it ties in with power-fantasy wish fulfillment.
1Wasn’t there a John Cusack movie with MEg Ryan where they were co-stalking their exes? And Shooting Elizabeth kind of fits the bill if I remember it correctly… granted, it’s been a while.
Don’t the movies where it’s a guy stalking a girl usually end up with the guy falling for that great friend who has been right there with him the whole time? That “plot” always seemed more popular. Wehreas when the girl chased the guy, the girl usually GOT the guy and THAT was the big resolution.
I don’t know if it was successful, but “Saving Silverman” had that precise theme.
What about Hollywood Movie Starlet kidnapped by male fan and his cult followers? Cecil B Demented was Melanie Griffith’s best film.
my leg was hurting so I was doped up on Vicodin
Ah, that explains why you kept muttering about “Differential plots” and called Joe Quesada “Cuddy”.
Of course it *could* be that people were up in arms that SUPERMAN was “stalking” Lois, while no one cares that some made-up one-hit wonder superheroine would be doing the same in the movie she was created for. OR, perhaps, the overarching thematic elements of each movie played into people’s feelings as to whether the usage of powers was appropriate or not. If it were a spoof of superhero movies (I hear one’s coming up) and a male superheo was using his powers in the same way as G-Girl, I’m sure no one would have any problem with it.
There was also the Ellen Degeneres movie “Mr. Wrong” which played a guy stalking a girl as a comedy. It was the most unintentionally creepy movie I’ve seen in a long, long time.
I think the big thing about Superman Returns was that it was Superman. I didn’t have a problem with it personally because I thought it was handled well and I think it was to be assumed that his looking in on her wasn’t something he was obsessed with doing but rather just something he had done once or twice to make sure she was ok and to see if she really was over him. Also remember Superman at the end leaves things the way he finds them. If he had tried to take out Richard White that would’ve been something else altogether.
Not sure about any comedies where a guy stalks a girl though. “Better Off Dead” certainly had a bit of it though.
Michael
You left out ex-wives going after ex-husbands: (First Wives Club), and secretaries going after their sexist boss (9 To 5).
There’s Something About Mary
It’s a comedy when the super powerful woman stalks the guy? Of course.
It’s also funny when the little dog is bossing around the big dog in the cartoon. It’s funny when the cat gets the crap beaten out of him by the mouse or the tweaty bird. It’s also funny when Dr. Doom gets beaten by Squirrel Girl.
Reversal of status adds to the comedy. Nothing odd there.
The movie In the Company of Men, I think.
In the Company of Men was NOT a comedy. Sure, there was a lot of humor in it, but the actual plot was anything but comedic.
There was also the Ellen Degeneres movie “Mr. Wrong” which played a guy stalking a girl as a comedy.
Or as all of in the know called it, “Mr. Wrong Gender”
The movie In the Company of Men, I think.
Yikes! Worst First Date Movie Ever!
You could sort of argue that 50 First Dates is a funny stalking movie but it works because the “stalker” isn’t really stalking and he’s a nice guy. Conversely, Super Ex-Girlfriend doesn’t work for me because the Uma character is so unlikeable.
A funnier movie might have used the premise but had Uma using her superhero character to help get her alter ego laid. I know, I know–it’s been used by TV Funhouse for Wonder Man. Still funny though.
There was also an imaginary story once where Supergirl lost her memory, married Jimmy Olsen, regained her memory and decided to trick Jimmy into falling in love with her Supergirl identity–possibly the worst plan ever cincieved by ahuman in a non-vegetative state. It’s my favorite Jimmy Olsen story EVER.
there’s a short film about superman being dumped by lois, and he talks about flying by her house and using calling her all the time. it was actually pretty funny. i think it’s all about how you deliver it. sure, the concept sounds scary, but if it’s done right, it can be funny. especially if the icon is someone like the super-boyscout superman.
here’s the URL… it’s called “Losing Lois Lane”.
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2658724
I seem to recall the same thing happening when Felicity premiered. IIRC, a TV Guide reviewer commented that if a male character did what Felicity did—moving to New York to pursue a guy and go to the same school as he did–that he’d be called a stalker, and a reader wrote in to say that it’s either stalking or it’s not, regardless of gender, and that if it were stalking if she were male, then it was stalking for a female as well.
I was going to mention “There’s Something About Mary” but it seems I was too slow. In that film, Cameron diaz got stalked not by a guy but by half a dozen.
But I get the point PAD tries to make, I’ve felt the same everytime an ad aimed at a female target would portray men as clueless idiots. Sure, its fun and help sell whatever they try to sell, but I remember some campaigns that would have fotten people lay off if genders were reversed.
Same people in the media shaking their fists in anger at any demeaning portray of “women” grin and nod when it is “men” who get bashed.
For that matter, men getting punched, kicked, shot, etc in the testicles ios considered high comedy. Imagine something remotely like that performed on women and played for laughs.
Just saw Miami Vice. Nicely done, though I think many will find it needlessly long. Great cinematography, you can’t take you eyes off the screen.
Personally, I didn’t have any problem with Superman stalking Lois. It broght me back to pre-Crisis days.
The movie In the Company of Men, I think.
Yikes! Worst First Date Movie Ever!
No, that would be AUDITION.
Trust me.
Funny you should mention “My Super Ex-Girlfriend,” because I just got back from seeing it with my wife. I also found some of the things you mentioned go through my mind, and I wonder if Wanda Sykes’ sexual harrassment crusade subplot — addressed twice in the film (making it a veritable footstomper from a scriptwriter’s point of view) — was a subtle nod to the apparent double standard.
I mean, look at the different gender-based reactions by society regarding real-world scenarios. For example, if a male teacher sleeps with one of his 16-year-old female students, there is considerably more outrage and anger than when a female teacher sleeps with one of her 16-year-old male students. By rights, one would expect both crimes to be equally appalling to society at large — but that does not seem to be the case.
Peter David:
You can do a comedy with a girl going after a guy (Super-Ex). You can do a comedy about a group of girls going after a guy (John Tucker Must Die). You can even do a comedy about a girl going after another girl or group of girls (Bad Girls). But a guy going after a girl who done him wrong? *Is* there a comedy–at least a successful one–ever made on that theme?
Closest thing I can think of is the season 2 episode of Buffy when Cordelia dumps Xander. Granted, he never tries to, ya know, inflict bodily harm on her, but he did nearly get both of them killed.
Elayne Riggs:
It’s hard to do a comedy in which the party with historical societal power (aka The Default, aka The Guy) harasses the party which is historically powerless societally (aka The Other, aka The Gal), because harassment, oppression, etc. are serious issues and are perpetuated, in the vast majority of cases, by those with power over those without. The idea of the oppressed turning the tables on the oppressors is part of successful satire, particularly when it ties in with power-fantasy wish fulfillment.
I agree. Unfortunately it only goes to show just how “equal” the sexes are right now. I guess one sure sign that they are equal will be when a man harrassing a women is just as funny as a woman harrassing a man. Which, when all is said and done, probably won’t end up very amusing for either side. (You see what equality does? It kills the funny.)
Posted by R. Maheras
For example, if a male teacher sleeps with one of his 16-year-old female students, there is considerably more outrage and anger than when a female teacher sleeps with one of her 16-year-old male students. By rights, one would expect both crimes to be equally appalling to society at large — but that does not seem to be the case.
I dunno — we’ve got a female teacher somewhere in Georgia (i think; not far away if not) who just started her second round of prison time for messing with a teenage boy — afyer she got out the first time, she violated the conditions of her parole that she have no contact with him (at least until he was legally an adult, anyway).
Bingo. Back Inside.
But consider the reverse — movies with female leads should be either “chick flicks” or comedies — films that would clearly carry no gender-political message are suddenly seen as Feminist Statements if they star women.
Consider Thelma and Louise (one of my favourite films, BTW) — not a stalker film, just a reversal of the standard road picture format (and blowing away a redneck rapist is relatively tame compared to some of the things that have launched road picture plots with male stars), but since it’s not claerly a comedy — “Male bashing!”
The movie In the Company of Men, I think.
Yikes! Worst First Date Movie Ever!
No, that would be AUDITION.
Trust me.
Sasha makes an excellent point.
Actually, one should avoid ever taking a date to a Takashi Miike movie unless one is very very very sure of said date’s tastes. Ok, maybe Zebraman. Maybe.
For the same reason former teacher Mary Kay Letorneau and former student Vili Fualaau were able to have fawning wedding coverage by People magazine and Entertainment Tonight (presumably for large dollars) rather than be ostracized, attacked, or vilified as “Mark Letorneau” and “Violet” Fualaau would have been, had the genders been reversed.
I’ve always said that if the roles were reversed, “My Best Friend’s Wedding” would have been a stalker movie on the Lifetime Network.
Hmmm – male stalks female comedies… i knew there was something knocking on my skull (nice rolling echo effect, too) — His Girl Friday could be considered one, in some ways.
Mel Gibson’s Anti-Semitic Tirade During DUI Arrest
Original link.
TMZ has learned that Mel Gibson went on a rampage when he was arrested Friday on suspicion of drunk driving, hurling religious epithets. TMZ has also learned that the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s department had the initial report doctored to keep the real story under wraps.
The report says Gibson launched into a barrage of anti-Semitic statements: “F*****g Jews… The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world.” Gibson then asked the Deputy, “Are you a Jew?”
Sources say the sergeant on duty felt the report was too “inflammatory.” A lieutenant and captain then got involved and calls were made to Sheriff’s headquarters. Sources say the Deputy was told Gibson’s comments would incite a lot of “Jewish hatred,” that the situation in Israel was “way too inflammatory.” It was mentioned several times that Gibson, who wrote, directed, and produced 2004’s “The Passion of the Christ,” had incited “anti-Jewish sentiment” and “For a drunk driving arrest, is this really worth all that?”
“For the same reason former teacher Mary Kay Letorneau and former student Vili Fualaau were able to have fawning wedding coverage by People magazine and Entertainment Tonight (presumably for large dollars) rather than be ostracized, attacked, or vilified as “Mark Letorneau” and “Violet” Fualaau would have been, had the genders been reversed.”
It seemed to me that Mary Kay Letorneau WAS vilified, rather severely, when that story first broke. On the other hand, there’s Loretta Lynn, who was married at the age of 13 to a much older man, and that was turned into a sweet love story in Coal Miner’s Daughter.
It’s always seemed to me that the level of outrage over adults having sex with minors has less to do with the respective genders of the paricipants, and more to do with their marital status. If they get married first, it’s okay, but if they don’t, it’s rape (which has never made sense to me).
Worst first date movies…
“Boys dont cry”
There’s Something about Mary.
Mike Weber –
Good point re. His Girl Friday. And with the remake “Switching Channels” and its male co-star Christopher Reeve we even get a kind of superhero angle 😉
Both those films actually can be described as “My Best Friend’s Wedding” in reverse. Come to think of it, a lot of those comedies involving a wrecked wedding may qualify, e. g. “The Philadelphia Story” (as a musical: “High Society”). BTW, remember what Cary Grant did to Katherine Hepburn in the opening scene of that film? (One aspect that I sometimes find a little creepy about that film is that Tracey Samantha is made out to be a bad gal for failing to be accepting of her father’s philandering).
In general I am not sure if there is that much of a taboo on males “harmlessly” stalking women. It is treated as a kind of lovable manifestation of the shyness of Marty’s dad as a teenager in “Back to the Future” and as “sweet” in “Gregory’s Girl”. John Cusack stalks Catherine Zeta-Jones in “America’s Sweethearts” but she’s the unsympathetic one (don’t know if that film will turn out more or less successful than My Super Ex-Girlfriend).
Successful comedy with male going after female? Dare I say “The Taming of the Shrew”? Or more recently, “The Quiet Man” and “Overboard”?
What about The Temp and Single White Female? Didn’t those movies feature females stalking and/or manipulating males (only one scene in the case of the latter)?
I always thought John Cusack was sort of stalky in Say Anything, but obviously I’m in the minority on that.
There’s a difference between “pining away for” and the kind of serious stalking that happened in My Super Ex-Girlfriend. A lot of the examples here cite comedies where the guy is obsessed, but he’s still trying to get the girl (Something About Mary). My Super Ex-Girlfriend featured a woman who wasn’t doing really creepy things to get closer to the object of her affection, she was scorned and she took very drastic measures to get revenge.
The only movie I can think of that’s similar — a comedy where a man seeks revenge upon a woman — is Saving Silverman. I don’t know how successful that movie was, but I really liked it.
There’s a movie coming out, John Tucker Must Die, where a group of girls intricatly plot their revenge on an unfaithful boyfriend. There’s no converse to that kind of movie.
Well, in “America’s Sweethearts” one scene involves John Cusack on a big motorcycle crashing through the front window of a restaurant onto the table where Catherine Zeta-Jones and her new boyfriend (Hank Azaria) are having dinner, endangering both their lives. It is ultimately rationalized by saying that he went crazy, but one has to sympathize with the complaint of CZ-J’s character that no one cares that he tried to kill her. The movie is clearly skewed in favor of Cusack’s character.
Not having seen “My Super Ex-Girlfriend”, I also wonder if this movie is setting up the audience to laugh with or at Uma Thurman’s character. In quite a few cases, the vindictive ex-girlfriend out for a guy’s guts is portrayed as funny because of her ineffectuality (e.g. Carrie Fisher’s character in “The Blues Brothers”).
Another possible aspect: men are expected to act rationally, while women are still frequently expected to be irrational, let their emotions run riot, go into hysterics even. So for many people would be much more likely to expect a story in which a rejected man goes homicidically nuts as a drama or tragedy, while in the case of a rejected girlfriend they would regard it as so “normal” that it can be used as comedy more often than not.
But having a man go after a woman can be used for comedy, e.g. Danny DeVito trying to do in his wife in “Ruthless People”, or Michael Palin going after an inoffensive old lady in “A Fish Called Wanda”.
Speaking of “A Fish Called Wanda”, that also featured Kevin Kline as an insanely jealous wronged boyfriend in violent stalking mode, but then he took his anger out mostly on Archie (John Cleese), not Wanda (Jamie Lee Curtis). Which makes me wonder if one of the reasons why we don’t see more ex-boyfriends going after ex-girlfriends in comedies isn’t because the expected thing would be for him to go after her new boyfriend…
For a comedy movie, where husband is trying to kill wife, how about ‘Ruthless People’? I’m probably showing may age for remembering that one.
Then again, I can remember when running two miles after school so as to walk up and down the street where a girl you fancied lived, in the vague adolescent hope of seeing her on her way home, was considered romantic…
Go figure…
Cheers.
In quite a few cases, the vindictive ex-girlfriend out for a guy’s guts is portrayed as funny because of her ineffectuality (e.g. Carrie Fisher’s character in “The Blues Brothers”).
Actually, I considered it funny for how utter over the top it was. (A *flamethrower*? Classic!)
Cable Guy was a comedy about a guy stalking another guy…
Of course, it bombed at the box office, so it may not be the best example.
It’s funny, but I had this same discussion about MY SUPER EX-GIRLFRIEND with a female friend of mine. I believe my exact words were, “If there’s a movie where a man is terrorized by a physically stronger woman who stalks him, pursues him, and threatens his life, it’s a comedy. If a movie haas a physically superior man doing all that to a woman it’s a drama — or, if done cheaply enough, a Lifetime Original Movie.”
With I’d gotten here sooner — I thought of MR. WRONG as one of the few “man threatens woman” comedies. Ah well. It’s interesting that of the many “examples” given above, where a woman is threatened by a man, they’re either not comedies (all movies have some comic elements, but that doesn’t make them comedies) or they don’t involve actual threats (big difference between John Cusack standing outside his ex’s room with a boombox and hanging your ex upside-down by a fire hose from the top of the Statue of Liberty.)
Also, in “Fish Called Wanda” Michael Palin’s character repeatedly attempts to assassinate an innocent old woman and the results (and eventual killing) are played for laughs.
In one episode of the TV show “Firefly” The main character tracks down, pulls a gun on, and punches out a women who, “done him wrong.”
In “Revenge of the Nerds” a fraternity gets back at a sorority by planting hidden video cameras throught their house, spying on them in various states of undress, and selling nude pictures of them. Not violent, but definately stalking.
As for reactions to “Superman Returns” vs. “My Super Ex-girlfriend” one was played as straight action drama, and while I haven’t seen the other, it seems to be played as a live action cartoon. Rather like comparing “Naked Gun” to “Hill street blues.”
Also, thought I didn’t see “Disclosure” the plot was Demi Moore’s character harrasses/stalks a man, and it wasn’t played for laughs. I beleive that it was a success.
Lastly, I’ll suggest that there is a “real world” factor aspect. How many times have you read in the paper about a woman being violently murdered by a stalker (usually she has a restraining order which does no good) versus the reverse. I’m not saying that it doesn’t happen, but it seems to be rarer.
Oh,and this probably doesn’t count because it was a parody of horror movies, but the First “Scary Movie” was about killers stalking (mostly) women and it was played for laughs.
And again, I didn’t see it but “Mr. and Mrs. Smith” may have worked because it was “man and woman trying to kill each other.”
Lastly, does “Fargo” count? That had a woman being kidnapped and murdered, and it was mostly played for laughs.
Robin Williams stalked his family in Mrs Doubtfire as much as Superman stalked Lois and Richard and Jason in Superman Returns, and it was a successful comedy.
Prizzi’s Honor? Didn’t that get oscar nominations?
Robin Williams stalked his family in Mrs Doubtfire as much as Superman stalked Lois and Richard and Jason in Superman Returns, and it was a successful comedy.
I was going to so that you were crazy for comparing Superman Returns to a man impersonating someone else to be close to his family… except that Superman impersonating Clark Kent isn’t too far off base.
Superman as a stalker is totally bogus. Not withstanding the fact that the scene is a blatant plot device for emotional momentum, the man sees and hears everything, either from the upper atmosphere or outside a house. Lois was talking about him, his ears were burning, and he listened in. Big Brother (in more senses than one)? Maybe. Stalker? Not at all.
Revenge of the Nerds was a great citation for comedies where men get revenge on women. It’s older, but it fits.
The War of the Roses was a comedy where a seperating couple antagonized each other.
Lastly, I’ll suggest that there is a “real world” factor aspect. How many times have you read in the paper about a woman being violently murdered by a stalker (usually she has a restraining order which does no good) versus the reverse. I’m not saying that it doesn’t happen, but it seems to be rarer.
I think you’re correct though I suspect the number of non-murdering female stalkers is pretty high in real life. Of course, they often stalk other women–a Lifetime TV staple is the one where the crazy ex-girlfriend/wife/mother of the heroine’s new husband causes all manner of trouble.
“It seemed to me that Mary Kay Letorneau WAS vilified, rather severely, when that story first broke. “
Yes she was. I was clearly referring to the subsequent wedding a few years later which received the “fawning coverage”.