It always takes me a day or so to get geared up after returning from a convention. In this instance, I’m back from ShowMeCon in St. Louis, which I attended along with Ariel. The folks who ran the convention were uniformly friendly and helpful, and escorted Ariel and I out to see the Bowling Hall of Fame (which was really cool.)
Also in attendance at the convention was Noel Neill, best known as Lois Lane from the original Superman movie serials and TV series.
Not in attendance, sadly enough, were fans. It wasn’t expected to be a huge convention in any event–predicted attendance was between 300 and 500. But it seemed to me as if there were less than 150 people. Has anyone been noticing a general drop in attendance at conventions, or is it only the ones where I’m guest of honor?
PAD
• 
Must be you – you weren’t at the one in NYC at all… Hmmmm….
You have the cooties, Peter. Or at least that’s what I’ve been telling everyone.
Seriously, I live in the Rochester, N.Y., area, and we used to have big honkin’ conventions when I was a kid. In fact, I met you at one of them when I was 12. That was 23 years ago. Yikes! Time flies.
I don’t remember the last time Rochester hosted a big convention like that. I’ve been led to understand that the demand just isn’t there.
Also, I went to school at Ithaca College, and attended the Ithacon and some smaller comic-book shows hosted by the Comic Book Club of Ithaca. I’ve been led to understand that attendance has waned at those shows as well.
That’s far from a rigorous analysis of convention attendance in North America, but still, I think it’s safe to say that your cooties have nothing to do with fan attendance at conventions.
(Oh, and by the way, I was an obnoxious 12-year-old who talked your ear off more than anyone had a right to do. You were a gracious professional who gave me good advice and tolerated my obnoxiousness amazingly well. I remember the day quite fondly and would love to have an opportunity to meet you at a convention again. Your detractors would do well to actually, y’know, interact with you before forming judgments.)
There may very well be a drop-off at the lesser known and smaller cons, as the larger ones take up industry folks’ money, time and energy. It’s not surprising that people need to cut back on expenditures during lean times.
I would say that at least of late the cost of gas may preclude many from traveling any distance for a convention. It was a major factor in my son and me not going to the Pittsburgh Con last weekend.
Hmm… we should test that theory.. come to Oklahoma, I bet we can bring in a lot more than 150 people to see you!
I know Soonercon would love to have you as a GOH!
I went to a comic convention in St. Louis a couple of years ago working for an anime vendor. It was the most dead convention I had ever been to up to that point, and I think if you judge by the ratio of floorspace to attendees it still holds the record. The only upshot was that I got a lot of time to wander around and pick up most of the Giffen & DeMatteis Justice League books for 50 cents to a dollar a pop, and then had plenty of time to read them while I was at it; good for me, bad for my boss at the time’s bottom line. I’d say the problem wasn’t you — I guess St. Louis just isn’t a good city for comics conventions.
Kansas City, on the other hand … any plans to hit there on the convention trail? If not, can you MAKE plans to hit there? Please? ^_^
Had Jerome Bettis been inducted yet when you went to the Bowling Hall of Fame?
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06102/681326-66.stm
Posted by: Elayne Riggs at April 25, 2006 09:56 AM
There may very well be a drop-off at the lesser known and smaller cons, as the larger ones take up industry folks’ money, time and energy. It’s not surprising that people need to cut back on expenditures during lean times.
That makes perfect sense. From a selfish perspective, though, I prefer the “lesser known and smaller cons” (although, to be fair, Rochester, N.Y., is a mid-size city — we’re not NYC, but neither are we cow country out here!). In my experience, smaller conventions allow for more interaction between fans like me and pros like Peter.
Unfortunately, if there’s insufficient demand in a certain area, you’re probably not gonna see much convention activity there. Unfortunate? Sure. But also a fact of life.
As one of the staff of Show Me Con, I want to thank you Peter for the kind words regarding our convention. We really are trying to get this thing to fly. This is our fourth year and we have really been struggling to get this going.
St. Louis has been a tough market in recent years.
Our yearly regional con ARCHON is in its 30th year and will be the NASFIC in 2007. I hope this helps draw attention to us as a convention destination.
We really don’t get any professional promoters any more so we do have to make our own fun as they say so we appreciate any good PR we get.
Next year we are moving to a new hotel and hoping that the change of function space will help reenergize interest. I would ask all readers of this blog (shameless plug here)to bookmark Showmecon.com and check back often for our plans for 2007.
Again, thanks to Peter and Ariel for being our guests. I really enjoyed meeting you both and hope to see you again at another event in the future.
I can’t imagine the people throwing this con did much, if any, promotion for it. I’m in the St. Louis area and I didn’t hear about it until Saturday afternoon. I’ve talked to two different local comic shop owners and they didn’t know there was a con going on. It is nice that it was well run for those in attendence, but the local outreach was non-existent.
The real “problem” with the St. Louis con scene is that the fan base is already well served. We’ve got a lot of great comic shops in the area with several flea market style conventions held each year. Since living here I’ve never spent more than a month looking for any comic before I’ve been able to find it at a reasonable price somewhere local.
Unfortunately, I think that ShowMeCon is still competing for the people that go to Archon in October even though they’re months apart. Coming from out of town, I can only go to one St. Louis convention a year – and that’s always going to be Archon. Believe me, when I found out you were going to be GoH at SMC I was torn, but all of my friends were going to Archon, and it’s always cheaper to travel with others that you can split the cost with ;/.
I can say that MidSouthCon in Memphis has seen a *massive* upswing in attendance over the last 5 years (even after the DHS took over our hotel one year) – each year we on the concomm keep wondering if the previous year was the ‘peak’, and yet each year we have been topping the attendance record of the year before. In addition a smaller birthday parte/relaxacon/convention that has been running in Memphis for the last decade (ShadowCon) is getting larger itself – not as dramatically as MSC, but still increasing.
I think timing is an issue here – ShowMeCon is only 4 years old, but it started out competing with a 2000+ person, 25+year-old con. A tough nut to crack. In Memphis’ case, MidSouthCon had only been around for about 15 years, and had only a 500-700 person or so attendance when ShadowCon started, so it was somewhat easier to establish a new convention – and they address slightly different niches – ShadowCon is essentially a big SCAdian birthday party, while MSC is a traditional convention
I signed up on the ShowMeCon’s website to be notified about any updates. I didn’t receive any. I didn’t see any posters at my local comic shop either. That said, I still remembered the convention because I wrote it on my calendar last winter. Sadly I was unable to attend due to family obligations. Also, $25 dollars for admission seemed a little steep since I am not really in the market for any specific book. As was said above, it’s not too hard to find missing back issues. I would have liked to have PAD sign an issue of Fallen Angel and I want to buy Noel Neill’s book, but here in the Midwest it is spring and my Dad’s garden needed planting, my wife had landscaping wishes and we’re hosting a baby shower for my step-daughter next weekend so cleaning was a priority. Also the cows needed milking, Mr. Myers.
As another staff member of ShowMeCon, who enjoyed finally getting a chance to meet PAD, I am disappointed to hear that any comic shop owners were unaware, as I know we did hand out flyers to the local comic shop owners to pass out to customers, as well as at various local comic shows and toy shows. We knew these were prime locations to reach PAD’s fans as well as those of Noel Neill.
I’m also surprised by the comment that there are sufficient outlets for comic book fans in St. Louis. There are certainly sufficent outlets to find comics in the area, but I’ve never attended a convention just for the dealers room. The ‘flea-market’ style comic cons I’ve been to have been just that — people selling comics. No guests. No panels. Useful for finding back issues, but not really a convention in my mind.
I can understand how someone out of town will only go to one convention in St. Louis, but I feel St. Louis is large enough to support two conventions.
All that aside, I too wish to thank PAD for being such a gracious guest. I was greatly impressed to learn he was as humorous in person and on the spur of the moment as he is in print. I highly recommend him as a guest to anyone anywhere running a convention.
Wow. I would never pay $25 to find back issues. I would go online (ebay, milehighcomics, etc) or go to one of the ‘flea-style’ comic cons mentioned above, where admission is often free.
The admission fee at conventions I am familiar with is for meeting guests, attending panels run by these guests, masquerades, gaming, and often free food and drink in the hospitality room. Plus the chance to meet other local fans I haven’t met before. All that is worth $25 in my mind.
I would have liked to attend, but unfortunately our finances have been tight of late. I was hoping to hear the con had done better.
JSM
I was the only comics dealer at the con, and I think we may have done better than most of the other dealers (if their grumbling was accurate). But there were primarily SF people there, despite the two Guests of Honor. I can’te tell you how many people glanced over at us, realized we were selling comics, and walked by with their nose in the air. I have no idea how the marketing went, but there definitely should have been more comic people there. The SF people sure weren’t buying.
I heard lots of excuses over the course of the weekend. The primary ones were money, both gas prices (as the show was by the airport and fairly inaccessible, but this will change next year) and economics in general.
The most rational one I’ve heard for the drop (as everyone I talked to confirmed the 300+ estimate from past years) was that this year’s con was much earlier. past shows have been in July, this was moved up, obviously. Either people didn’t know about the change or didn’t want to come so early in the year. People are creatures of habit.
Mike
We moved from July for one main reason — its closeness to Archon. Next year, Archon will be in August for the NASFiC, and we definitely didn’t want our convention 1 month prior to Archon/NASFiC. Into the future, we figure a Spring convention will nicely offset a Fall convention.
But you are correct, it is likely that our move did confuse some, even though we did work to prevent that. As will our move to a new hotel next year, but the new hotel will be a superior location in the future. I assure all the local/regional readers of this thread that the comments regarding promotion will be relayed to the rest of the SMC staff.
PAD posted:
“The folks who ran the convention were uniformly friendly and helpful, and escorted Ariel and I out to see the Bowling Hall of Fame (which was really cool.)”
Um, PAD, “escorted Ariel and I“? For shame, PAD, for shame. Tch, tch, tch.
I guess we can allow you this heinous error since you’re obviously not quite back on track.
Just watch it next time. 😉
Gosh, if I had known PAD was going to be in StL, I would have made an effort to go. I know he had to cancel the comics show he was doing across the river in Collinsville a few years ago.
Instead, we went to MTAC in Nashville (about the same drive from Memphis). We didn’t know about this con.
And I agree that a lot fo the Sci-Fi con attendees can have an elitist attitude toward comic fans/dealers. It’s sad.
If ShoMeCon can work to get more comics guests, and promote their con some more to the comics crowd, I think St. Louis would be a great place for another con.
Also, I went to school at Ithaca College, and attended the Ithacon and some smaller comic-book shows hosted by the Comic Book Club of Ithaca. I’ve been led to understand that attendance has waned at those shows as well.
Bill,
If the con where you met Peter was 23 years ago, then we’re almost the same age, which means we may have been at one or two of the same Ithacons and/or CBCI meetings. (My wife and I are Cornellians, and her brother was an Ithaca grad, class of ’94.) Did you ever attend any of the club meetings, or mostly the cons?
(Just curious — one of my fondest comic-related memories is still Roger Stern doing an open reading of Scott McCloud’s “DESTROY!!!” during the Special Goofy Fight Scene meeting one winter’s night. 🙂
As for me and cons in general … tough to do of late, what with a cross-country move and a 1-year-old. When Katherine gets a bit older, we may start going to at least semi-local ones.
TWL
I find that it’s harder to get to conventions these days – too expensive is the main thing.
I remember when I used to go to cons in the 1970s – in New York City – I remember one at the Ambassador Hotel (long gone, I think), that hosted, over three days, 15,000 (yes, it’s not a typo) people – 6,000 alone on the Saturday.
You *never* see numbers like that now.
Ah nostalgia.
I think ShowMe con has an identity crisis. Most of the local residents don’t know what it is. Is it a comics con? Is it a media con? They need to find an identity and settle on it instead of being something different each year….the local comics fans think it’s a media con and don’t go, and the local media fans think it’s a comic con and don’t go. The masquerade is too small to appeal to the local costumer’s contingent, which is a strong, organized group, and there’s not enough anime content to appeal to the local anime contingent, another very strong, organized group. (A small anime ‘show’ – not a con – did moderately well here a year ago, despite being badly mismanaged.)
The airport location is also very bad – difficult to access and inconvenient for just about everyone local. I’m glad that’s changing.
St. Louis can host good cons. CostumeCon 25 is also slated for St. Louis in 2007, and should do well – the costumers are a dedicated group and it’s a con that is planned for roughly 300 in attendance or so.
Midwestern SF cons have — on the average — been trending down in attendance over the last decade or so. Identifying all of the reasons is tricky at best.
But, no, it’s not you. 🙂
MaryM — you raise an interesting point. And perhaps its something others, who may not be interested in the struggles of a particular local con, may have opinions on.
I know when I am trying to decide whether to go to a convention, I look at the guest list, and scheduled programming, etc. I don’t really care whether they label themselves as a MediaCon, ComicCon or AnimeCon.
If they specialize, I’m actually less likely to go, as there’s less chances I will see something I like.
I actually don’t feel we have had that different of a convention each year.
Every year ShowMeCon has had an Author GoH (Mercedes Lackey, Eric Flint, and PAD for the last three)
Every year ShowMeCon has had a Media GoH. (Bill & Toni Blair, Lani Tupu, and Noel Neill for the past three)
Every year ShowMeCon has had an Artist GoH. (Larry Dixon, Lucy Synk, and John Kaufmann for the past three)
Yes, we’ve also been trying to build in other activities for other fans — such as anime, masquerade, gaming, etc. And I feel each year each of these have grown stronger.
Personally, I don’t feel trying to provide as much fun for as many fans as possible is an identity crisis. I feel the more we offer, the more people we should attract.
However, you are the first person I have heard suggest that you or those you know will only go to a con that specializes in your particular flavor of fandom, and are confused by cons that offer more than one thing. This goes against my personal experience, but I am curious if others feel this way.
PAD,
I’ll make a suggestion. When you sign up to do a convention, please post the information in your blog or elsewhere on this site.
On a totally unrelated matter, I’m hoping you post a comment tomorrow on there being less than 1000 days left to Bush’s presidency.
Brian
It’s not you.
Smaller cons are likely taking a hit from their own lack off good promotional thinking. My wife and I love sci-fi and fantasy and would love to have some nice cons closer to home. It turns out that we had one, Ravencon, just a few days ago (with Terry Brooks as guest) and neither one of us know a thing about it until I was driving home from work and heard the local radio pinhead making fun of the people that went (it was in that day’s paper).
I didn’t see or hear any ads for it, I saw nothing posted in the local bookstores and none of my friends had heard word one about it. Apparently, they promoted through comic book shops (dámņ few in the area these days), card shops, purely “fan” environments and their own website. Well, I get what comics I do get by sources other then comic shops, I don’t do cards and my wife and I had never heard of Ravencon to look up the thing’s website and find out about it. We thought that it kinda sucked as we grabbed the local paper, read about it and figured that we would have had a blast at it.
I’ve spoken to a number of people who would have loved to have gone had they known about it. Ravencon could have packed in quite a few more people into their books had they made a little more noise. It’s not even as though we all just ignored what they may have put out. My friends and I can tell you about lots of stuff coming up in Richmond, some as small or smaller then a startup Con like this, that we have no interest in because the events’ promoters advertise themselves in a manner that gets their name out.
My friends and family in other states have all said the same thing from time to time about the smaller cons in their area. They don’t promote outside of their own little box and they end up losing out on paying customers that would have loved to come had they not read about the event that was rather then the event that will be.
Driving several hours to get to a con (or much of anywhere else) doesn’t appeal to me as much as it used to twenty-thirty years ago.
Bus or train? Hours stuck having to put up with ill-mannered jerks shouting into their bloody cell phones, or listening to their over-loud iPod or other music thingies.
Flying? With overpriced airports the way they are nowadays?
I used to enjoy three or four conventions a year … then. Now? Getting there is more than half the hassle. I’m getting too old for that.
Posted by Tim Lynch at April 25, 2006 03:32 PM
Bill,
If the con where you met Peter was 23 years ago, then we’re almost the same age, which means we may have been at one or two of the same Ithacons and/or CBCI meetings. (My wife and I are Cornellians, and her brother was an Ithaca grad, class of ’94.) Did you ever attend any of the club meetings, or mostly the cons?
(Just curious — one of my fondest comic-related memories is still Roger Stern doing an open reading of Scott McCloud’s “DESTROY!!!” during the Special Goofy Fight Scene meeting one winter’s night. 🙂
As for me and cons in general … tough to do of late, what with a cross-country move and a 1-year-old. When Katherine gets a bit older, we may start going to at least semi-local ones.
I never attended the club meetings, and I think I only attended the Ithacon once, in ’91. I did go to other shows hosted by the club, though. I remember them being held at the Masonic Temple. I was always afraid someone would ask me for the secret handshake and then kick me out when they realized I wasn’t one of them.
Roger Stern reading “Destroy!” sounds like a real hoot. Too bad I missed it.
Did you shop at Comics for Collectors? ‘Cause that was always a great store. And I understand it still is. Tim Gray is still running it, after all.
We may well have been at the same Ithacon and not known it. I was the guy in the tee-shirt and jeans walking around doing stuff.
What? How many people like that could there have been?
Smaller cons are likely taking a hit from their own lack off good promotional thinking.
We have Starfest here in Denver – in fact, it was just this past weekend.
It gets some sci-fi names from movies, tv, and print. Yeah, lots of Trek names (Takei was here this year, Shatner a couple of years back), but some others too, like Karl Urban and Dean Haglund also this year.
But they really don’t advertise. They get good crowds apparently, but they hold the convention in the Denver Tech Center, which is like the least accessible part of town on the weekends for those of us who rely on public transportation.
So, I’ve missed this con every year since I’ve moved here, as much as I want to go.
When it comes to conventions themselves, I’m not overly needing something specialized. Like, Starfest is pretty much sci-fi. Ok.
I want to go to a GenCon one of these years, and San Diego ComiCon last year was in fact the very first bonifide convention I’d ever been to – which is a helluva choice to start out with. But I got to meet PAD there, among others, so it’s all good. 🙂
As another ShowMeCon writer, I can honestly say attendance seemed low and sales lower, but it was still a good time. Maybe it’s just that we St. Louisian writers keep seeing each other at the same Midwest conventions on the circuit each year. 🙂
But the folks running it were great, and hopefully we can work together to promote the new site next year. I would put money on gas prices being a major factor on con attendance.
I imagine ShowMeCon is going through some growing pains, but I hope it doesn’t specialize too much. I think it’s good to have an alternative con on the other half of the year from Archon, which seems bigger each year (I have no numbers to back that up, just my impression). I personally prefer a con with multiple themes, rather than a comic-only con or an anime-only con. But your mileage may vary.
It would be nice to see more bodies at next year’s ShowMeCon, and to see more readers and aspiring writers in the panels. Of course, more people buying our books would be nice, too… But no, Peter, I don’t think it was you. 🙂
🙂 ekd
I live in St. Louis and didn’t hear a thing about this convention, until a friend who lives five hours from here mentioned that you were coming, but didn’t know when. (He told me this on Saturday.) But if it cost $25 to get in, I doubt I would have went anyway.
KIP
PAD: It’s probably not you. Due to work and financial constraints I have had to miss out on every single one of the local cons so far this year. In fact, I might have to write off this entire con season. The same factors are also preventing me from going to any of the big out-of-town cons, like SDCC. The friends of mine who are still attending cons this year have reported smaller than usual crowds at all of them so far. And it doesn’t seem to matter who the guests are either.
I don’t know if it is so much the cost of gasoline, but just the cost of living in general (fueled in no small part by the cost of gasoline) that is making it harder and harder for fen to make it out to cons. I mean, if you have rent or a mortgage, utilities, car payments (though I don’t have this one because I don’t own a car), and similar things to pay each month, and yet you’ve had no real raise in your income in years, or whatever raise you have received is barely equal to the cost of inflation, then how many fans can pay their living expenses and still have enough left over to fork over hundreds of dollars just in entrance fees to cons, and maybe a hotel room and meals if they are coming in from out of town?
Though as usual, the ONE year I have to skip all the cons is the ONE year the authors I want to meet FINALLY make the trip up here to Toronto!
I don’t think it was you, PAD, and I’ll give you an example. I worked at the same tables with Mike (the guy with the comics up above here) at the con and I had a woman approach me on the second day, appalled that we would bring comics into a SF convention to sell. When I pointed out that some of the comics we had were “written by Peter David,” her response was an indignant “WHO?!”
I hesitantly explained that you were the guest of honor at the con; whereupon she pulled out the convention program. Once she was assured that I was telling the truth, she came back with a flip, “Oh, I don’t go to these things to see the guests anyway,” and stomped off.
Which was a general vibe I did get at the con – that the people there were there not to see the guests so much as to see their friends and party with them. Now, before anyone jump on me for saying that, let me explain that this is actually one of the main reasons of my convention travels over the years as well. In the past, conventions were one of the few places I could get together with long-distance friends and have some fun in an agreeable, usually fun atmosphere. I can’t tell you how many conventions I’ve gone to where I ended up seeing perhaps one panel at most, or rarely cared to see the special guests. In light of that, when I hear someone say, “Oh, I don’t come here for the guests,” and see people avoiding panels in order to yak it up in the halls, I understand the feeling.
The problem these days is that the Internet and emails make sharing with long-distance friends so much easier and there is not quite the need to meet up as one did in the past. In fact, I would say that the Internet probably has done more to reduce the number of people at cons than anything else. Why go to a convention when you can go on line and read anything new happening with them or a book or a movie or a tv show that you would have spent months waiting to hear at the annual con? Or correspond with someone like yourself instantly like this instead of traveling hundreds of miles to do it in person?
Thus, I feel the “need” to attend conventions is no longer there as it was in previous decades. Another reason in a long line of ones to show for the demise of the SF/comic conventions.
…I had a woman approach me on the second day, appalled that we would bring comics into a SF convention to sell. When I pointed out that some of the comics we had were “written by Peter David,” her response was an indignant “WHO?!”
Did you bring David Brin’s graphic novels along, too? It might have been fun to watch her elitist head explode…
John wrote:
“As another staff member of ShowMeCon, who enjoyed finally getting a chance to meet PAD, I am disappointed to hear that any comic shop owners were unaware, as I know we did hand out flyers to the local comic shop owners to pass out to customers, as well as at various local comic shows and toy shows.”
I mentioned the ShowMeCon to my local comic shop owner, Steve at Comic Headquarters on Telegraph Road in South St. Louis County, last evening. He said he had not gotten any flyers about it and I was only the second person to ask him about it since the weekend. No one had mentioned it before the weekend. There were about 5 people in the store when I was there so I asked aloud if anyone there had gone or even heard about it. No one did.
What happened at Showmecon is not unlike what happens at a lot of other local, fan-run, general insterest SF Cons. When we had Peter out as our GoH for LepreCon 28, I did special flyers at the comic shops promoting Peter, even offering a discount at the door. Very few comics fans showed up. Most that I asked about it indicated they didn’t want to go to a general SF con to see someone. That it was too much money to get in, etc.
It is still hard to promote locally to fans any event when you don’t have large financial backing to promote it via newspaper ads and such. Phoenix’s local cons drew 1500+ people back in the 1980’s and now we struggle to get 500 even while the population in the Phoenix metro area has probably quadrupled or more.
Getting the papers or TV stations to pay attention to any SF event is pretty hard. I’ve been attempting to get them interested in promoting the Nebulas happening here this coming weekend and only one of them is doing an article, and based on what I heard from Connie Willis of the interview she had with him, I’m afraid to see what he writes. I haven’t yet heard from Harlan Ellison how it went with him (must not have been too bad or I probably would have gotten a call from Harlan).
Anyone in the Phoenix area might want to show up at the Nebulas next weekend to see Harlan Ellison be awarded the SFWA Grand Master. I received an envelope in the Nebulas PO Box today that indicates readers of this web site may have an extra incentive to come….
http://www.sfwa.org/awards/2006
We have gotten a comic convention started up in the Phoenix area that has been a one-day mostly dealer’s only with a few panels event for the first few years that is going for its first two-day event this fall. Hopefully that will do well and we can entice Peter back again for our comic convention. http://www.phoenixcomicon.com
Lee Whiteside
2006 Nebula Awards Weekend Chair
There was a ShowMe Con in St. Louis????
Great publicity, because I never knew anything about it. Would have been there, had I known about it.
I live in St. Louis and didn’t hear word one about this convention. No promotions that I saw in the comic shop I frequent (Hey, Starclipper!) and no coverage in the local community radio (KDHX FM88.1) events calendar, which my wife compiles and reads on air.
Had I known about it, I probably would have spent a day there.