You know, it always causes me giggles when Christians complain of how ill-used and oppressed Christianity is in this country. Because, y’know, having the only religion for which government shuts down on your major holidays isn’t enough due diligence. Still, it can’t help the perception of your faith when your major spokesmen in this country are áššhølëš. Kind of skews perceptions of you. Consider Pat Robertson, bastion of Christian charity, advocating the covert assassination of Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez.
Oh yeah. I seem to recall, from my limited familiarity with the New Testament, that Jesus advocated such thinking. Right between “Love thy neighbor” and “The meek shall inherit the Earth,” he espoused,
“We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability.”
I can understand why Pat Robertson is such a prominent religious figure. Every time the guy opens his mouth, people say, “Chriiiiiiist.”
PAD
• 
The Happy Fundy presents “The Ten Commandments”
Won’t it be great to live by the Ten Commandments once they are put up in the courthouse for all to see? As a reminder, let’s go through them one by one so we are prepared for these great principles from the Old Testament!
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Wow, well I guess it’s goodbye religious tolerance and hellooooooo Yahweh! That’s right, we will be unable to worship Jesus, Allah or Buddha since none of these is the Jewish God, Elohim.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. Good golly, all of that artwork throughout the ages from the Sistine Chapel to the wooden crosses that adorn many a neck and steeple will have to come right down! Not to mention the name of God on our currency…
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. Again, this is the Hebrew God so you can say “Jesus Christ!” all you want!
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. And here I’ve been going to church on Sunday, yikes! Looks like we will need to start worshipping on that lazy day of Saturday from here on out.
5. Honor thy father and mother. Dubya has got this one down, now if only he would honor other people’s sons and daughters.
6. Thou shalt not kill/murder. Okay, soldiers, it?s time to lay down those arms. No more killing in Iraq, Afghanistan or any other place for that matter!
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Sure, it seems to be something that only involves those who are in the relationships, but privacy be dámņëd, it’s time for the government to get into the bedroom of straight people too!
8. Thou shalt not steal. This one sounds simple enough! After all, who could accuse Big Business in America of stealing?!?
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. Thankfully, we never accuse people falsely, especially where WMD?s are involved!
10. Thou shalt not covet anything that is thy neighbor’s. Sheesh, I suppose advertising will have to rely on something else to sell products! And no more coveting foreign oil, Dubya and Ðìçk!
Well, that’s it for the Ten Commandments. Oddly enough, they don’t say anything about stem cell research or gay people marrying, but maybe we can chisel in some amendments.
Simply because he states that he is a “man of God,” a great number of Christians allow him to say what he wants, unchallenged. The silence from the people in the pews might be understandable, especially when other public religious leaders won’t challenge him. It seems to take completely insane comments from a public preacher to begin the questions – such as Oral Roberts’s statement that unless he got more contributions, God would ‘take him home.'”
It is undeniable that there is a segment of Christianity that follows and listens to Pat Robertson. It is, however, a rather small segment.
I have in the past and do again now completely disagree and denounce what Pat said. He does not represent me or other conservative Christians. He has always been on the fringe of even conservative Christians.
As a side note, Pat plays a different role than many TV preachers. He is more of a political and social commentator than a TV Pastor. He does not have a church but an audience. As such, he does get into political issues. That is not to excuse his insane comments, but it is wrong to ignore the context in which they were said. Many watch the 700 Club because they get news they cannot get anywhere else, including even Fox News. That does not mean the person watching agrees with everything or with Pat’s comments any more than someone watching CNN or Fox agree with the commentary on those channels.
One final thought: Most pastors in America avoid denouncing others. For every Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson, there are tens of thousands of pastors who would never say the things Pat or Jerry have said. If I was preaching at my church on Sunday, I wouldn’t even bother to mention Pat Robertson — he is a non-issue. The church I attend probably agrees with Pat on some political and social issues, but they are not what identifies us as a church. Most at my church (I admit, there are proably a few who are the exception), do not listen to Pat, or if they do, do not get their “marching orders” from him.
This differs a lot from what is well documented in the Arab world. You don’t just have a few Muslim leaders advocating the killing of Jews and acts of terrorism. You have a wide range of lower level religious leaders. Pat Robertson’s inexcusable comments do not resonate with most of Christian churches. His message is not being reinforced every Sunday from 99.9% of American pulpits. So any fear that Pat represents American Christianity is very out of place.
Iowa Jim
Of course Christ said this about people who would hurt children, “it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.”
Also, Evangelical Christians have no Pope or no leaders. Just because a guy can get on TV does not make him the spokesman for the religion.
I also love how people are so quick to seperate terrorism in the name of Islam from Islam itself. We are told time and time again that the terrorists do not represent Islam and the Islam is a peaceful religion.
Then a couple of nuts get on TV and these same people declare these nuts as “major spokesmen” for Christianity.
Wow, thanks.
I agree that the actual number of Christians who would agree with Robertson’s idiocy is very small. However, the fact that he and Falwell and others of their ilk presume to speak for all Christians is one of the primary reasons why I left Christianity behind years ago.
There is no doubt that they, for better or worse, are the public face of Christianity in America today and if other pastors and priests don’t feel comfortable with that, then they need to speak up. They can counter the hate and bigotry these men preach without mentioning them by name.
J’myle: Well, here. Check out the Landover Baptist Bible Quizes.
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/quizlist.html
We’ve been through this: Landover Baptist is a parody site. While I don’t doubt that there are a few people out there who are of a frame of mind to take what the site espouses seriously, it’s fairly obvious that the site is meant to be the ‘Onion’ of church websites.
As for Robertson, well, I hope it’s obvious that he doesn’t speak for the great majority of Christians. One of the problems with following the tenets of Christianity is that the whole ‘turn the other cheek’ thing encourages many people to quietly ignore those who ought to be openly challenged.
Well, at times I sort of like Pat Robertson, I guess I must have a perverse streak in me. But, I agree that his latest statements have me wondering about him. I mean, I don’t know about other religions, but don’t Christians have a commandment that states, “thou shalt not kill”? What happened to that?
“don’t Christians have a commandment that states, “thou shalt not kill”? What happened to that?”
Actually, the 10 Commandments have very little to do with Christianity. Though many Christian churches have adopted the 10 Commandments as being very important.
A lot of the new Testiment is focused on the fact that Christians are no longer under the old law(commandments).
Of course the trick there is that by accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior you follow those commandments anyways. Not because you are told to or because it is writen down as law, but because you want to.
http://www.hebcal.com/sedrot/shlach.html
Moses has sent 12 spies to scout out the promised land, and they have returned. Caleb speaks first:
Numbers Chapter 13 verse 30
Caleb hushed the people before Moses and said, “Let us by all means go up, and we shall gain possession of it, for we shall surely overcome it.”
The other spies are fearful. They proclaim that the people currently occupying the land are giants. Caleb responds:
Chapter 14 verse 9:
you must not rebel against the Lord. Have no fear then of the people of the country, for they are our prey…
Sure, talking about an entire people, and not one guy. And instead of “we have the ability” the sentiment is “we have the backing of God”.
The problem with citing scripture, whether it’s the Bible, Torah, or Koran, is that you can find a passage that will justify just about any position you want to take.
Case in point are many of the Old Testament descriptions of the many wars the Israelites fought to take and hold the land of Canaan, such as the passage from Numbers John quotes. One can argue that they are how-to guides on conducting warfare or simply state that they are descriptions of specific events and are meant to be applied in every conflict.
What irritates me about Robertson is that he claims to be speaking on behalf of Christians, yet precious little of what he uses to justify his positions resembles anything I was taught in Sunday School. His justifications for assassinating Chavez are purely economic, not religious. I think he knows that his views are completely without foundation in Christian thought, despite the fact that tries to dress it up as such.
If there is a hëll, I am sure that there is a special seat waiting there for him and hypocrites like him.
“If there is a hëll, I am sure that there is a special seat waiting there for him and hypocrites like him.”
Well, according to Dante, it is going to be a big, dámņ, lead robe he will have to haul around.
Although an arguement COULD be made that he is a sort of Simonist (one who sells church offices or favors) and would thus be stuck upside down in a baptismal font with the souls of his feet on fire.
Man, which is worse, hypocracy, or simony???
Oh fer crying out loud, like we all haven’t said the same thing about some DICKtator or the other in the past. (Including those of you who think the same thing about Bush.) No worries mates, no ones taking him seriously and since everyones tired of the Sheehan hype, it’s moving onto this. Don’t buy into it.
Sheese there’s gotta be SOMETHING else to report on out there.
“As for Robertson, well, I hope it’s obvious that he doesn’t speak for the great majority of Christians.”
And Osama Bin Laden doesn’t speak for the great majority of Muslims, but there are still millions of Americans who think he does.
As for Pat, he makes me dámņ glad I’m neither a Christian nor a Republican.
–R.J.
“Oh fer crying out loud, like we all haven’t said the same thing about some DICKtator or the other in the past.”
Well, see, that’s just the thing. I haven’t, and my beliefs are such that I never would. And since I consider myself something of a Christian, it does bother me that here’s this guy on TV calling for the execution sans a trial of another human being, yet he’s widely recognized himself as a Christian. Even to the point where some view him as somewhat of a Christian spokesman.
And that goes for our President. He won the election, and no matter how pleased I’d be if he were to be removed from office through impeachment or retirement, I don’t want him dead or killed.
What surprises me is not what Robertson said. I don’t believe he speaks for all christians. My surprise is that people keep sending him money. Who’s doing that?
And then here’s another thought: I have a friend who is a christian and he wakes up and turns on 700 Club while he works out. Turns out he agrees with some of what Roberton says. But does he agree before hand? His turning it on in the morning is kind of robotic. He turns it on because he’s a christian and 700 Club is supposedly christian.
I think a lot of people who have good hearts turn his show on without really listening to him. He has managed to convince them that it’s the “liberal media” spreading lies about him by simply the fact that they absentmindedly turn on the tv.
The thing that muslims, christians and any other people of faith have to do is not so much speak out against people who speak hatred but rather just don’t support them. Don’t send them money, don’t turn on the tv and listen to them. Once you’ve determined that they don’t represent you, don’t support them.
Michael J Norton
no matter how pleased I’d be if he were to be removed from office through impeachment or retirement, I don’t want him dead or killed.
I agree. I’d like him to live a long, healthy life … preferably in jail for offenses against the Constitution and humanity, but I’d settle for him being surrounded by scorn and ignominy.
I’d quite frankly like for him to live long enough to see what history really thinks of his little modern-day Crusade.
TWL
Hey Zeek:
From the Time Article I posted above:
“Chavez, for all his authoritarian tendencies, is a democratically elected head of state who last year won a national recall referendum approved by international observers.”
Thus he’s not a dictator (nor DICKtator as you so amusingly call him.)
Oh fer crying out loud, like we all haven’t said the same thing about some DICKtator or the other in the past. (Including those of you who think the same thing about Bush.)
Let me add my voice to those who have never called for the assassintion of Bush or any other president. Now, are you going to ask any of us when we stopped beating our wives?
Even if I had said that about Bush or even Castro or Kim, who am I? I’m nobody. Robertson has an audience of millions who (apparently) tune in like robots every day. He has a right to say what he thinks, but he also needs to be called to the carpet when he starts advocating murder as a way to get oil prices down.
“He won the election, and no matter how pleased “I’d be if he were to be removed from office through impeachment or retirement, I don’t want him dead or killed.”
I get most feel that way who don’t like Bush, but I’ve seen protestor signs that’ve said otherwise.
Deh, I just think it’s a slow news cycle of late if this is all the press has to talk about.
As far as Chavez, I realize he’s been elected “by the people” it’s his friendship of Castro that makes people think of him as otherwise.
And by the way, I’m not defending PR, he does need to keep his opinions to himself with the audience he has and all.
Just sayin’ I’ve heard similar comments in the lunch breakroom, he just said it on the air.
There is no doubt that they, for better or worse, are the public face of Christianity in America today and if other pastors and priests don’t feel comfortable with that, then they need to speak up. They can counter the hate and bigotry these men preach without mentioning them by name.
The problem is that 1,000 pastors could get up Sunday and denounce Pat or at least what he says and you will never hear about it. While most pastors avoid tearing down anyone (political or religious) by name, there are a few (like Falwell or Robertson, or Rev. Sharpton and Jackson for the other side) who do so regularly. And they are the ones who get the press. Billy Graham and Franklin Graham emphasize the positive and focus more on meeting people’s spiritual and physical needs, and they do get some press, but they are the exception. Most of the time, the only religious leaders you hear about are those making outrageous statements.
As I said earlier, some of you are making the mistake of not understanding that Robertson is as much of a political entity as he is religious. Many who support his ministry do so because of his political viewpoint and because the 700 Club gives a perspective they find missing in the mainstream news media. Obviously there is a mixing of politics and religion and you cannot divorce the two when you evaluate Pat.
Let me use an example: Rev. Jesse Jackson. I bet some of you disagree at times with what he says, but support some of his political causes. Those who give to Robertson do so as much because of the political perspective he has that they agree with, even if they disagree in some particulars. Personally, he has never received a dime from me and never will. I think he hurts my cause more than helps it. But others feel he does help in some ways and so overlook his past comments because the 700 Club is more than just Pat. (My understanding is that giving to the 700 Club is in decline, so I think more people are being turned off by his comments.)
Bottom line: Other than perhaps a Billy Graham or even a Jerry Falwell being allowed “air time” to denounce Pat Roberston, name for me a major Christian Pastor who has the name recognition and national visibility? Protestant Christianity does not have a Pope or anything close to it. Except for a few authors (such as Rick Warren), the only Christians that are nationally know are political/social commentators (such as Jesse Jackson, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, etc.) and Billy Graham. I know some of you already feel Christians are too involved in politics. The reality is, most are not and so they do not have a platform to denounce Pat. So don’t wait for it to happen because it can’t.
Iowa Jim
So don’t wait for it to happen because it can’t.
I think “can’t” in this situation is more a situation of “won’t”.
Look at Cindy Sheehan and tell me that somebody can’t get the attention of the media to denounce somebody like Pat “Wacko” Robertson. Or Falwell. Or the latest up-in-comer Dobson.
“If you think calling for the assassination of a foreign president is weird, the Daily Show had a clip of him last week praying for more openings on the Supreme Court. So he’s also called on God to bump off a few justices as well.”
Okay, well, to be totally fair, he COULD simply be praying for more justices to retire…
PAD
Got to admit, it would make a funny scene on Family Guy;
God: I going down there..
Jesus:(sighs) Dad..
God: I’ll go old testament on his ášš.
Jesus: Dad!
God: I’ll reach through the clouds and send him to Hëll! And put it on tv. Then people will know not to mess with the Creator, ME!
Jesus: Buddha? We’re going to need that meditation tape again.
Dobson’s an up and comer? Wow, he’s had a huge audience since I was a kid…and he’s just now become an “up and comer”? 🙂
Say something like this in a bar, and you’re a kook. Remind me to tell you about the guy that told my sister-in-law about all the invisible people in a bar sometime. Say something like this on TV and you’ll have those with just enough brain power to push buttons on a remote but not much else following you like just what they are-sheep. Unfortunately, most people lack the intelligence to question what’s said on TV or in the paper. Doesn’t seem to happen much around here, but I’ll guarantee it happens more than you might think. Unfortunately, though, you can’t just say the guy’s a nut and ignore him or say he doesn’t speak for me. Reason being, there’s someone out there that will agree and think it sounds like a good idea and do something about it and people end up dead.
Last thought-anybody else feel like Robertson and a few others want to start the Tower of Babel Rebuilding Project?
“Why am I allowing him to imagine that he does speak for me?”
How am I gonna stop him? Assassination?
Christians had the opportunity to show just how much support they had for Pat a few years back when he ran for president. He got shot down even by the southern conservative republicans that were supposed to be his base. And this was a much less transparently crazy Robertson than the one we have now.
What exactly is it that makes him a “leader” of Christian values? He has enough ratings to stay on the air and there are people who CALL him a leader…but I’ll bet I could ask the next 100 people here in North Carolina about him and get less than 25 who care much about what he has to say and about 10 who like him. With the number of U.S.A. Christians said to be around 85% of the population, I think that Mr Robertson’s base of support is woefully inadequate to legitimize his ranking as a Christian leader.
Criticizing Christians for Pat’s random neural misfirings is like blaming blacks for whatever idiocy Al Sharpton spews forth. It tells more about the critic than the people he or she is blaming.
I agree that the actual number of Christians who would agree with Robertson’s idiocy is very small. However, the fact that he and Falwell and others of their ilk presume to speak for all Christians is one of the primary reasons why I left Christianity behind years ago.
Why? It’s no reflection on you. I might question my beliefs if a huge majority of the people with the same beliefs were insane or evil but not just because a few media chosen “leaders” were. And even then, my conclusions might just be that my truth happens to be one that appeals to crazy people. That doesn’t make it crazy.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad PAD and others are mocking him. It’s the only time I like to see him get any press. I’ve heard some conservatives bìŧçh at how right wing nuts get publicity when they say stupid things and left wing nuts get a free ride. Fine. That’s ok; it will help conservatives eliminate the idiots from the ranks while the left is still stuck with theirs. Why would conservatives WANT Cynthia McKinnon (D-Conspiracyville) out of the picture?
The problem is that 1,000 pastors could get up Sunday and denounce Pat or at least what he says and you will never hear about it.
Maybe somebody should organize a million pastor march to bring sanity back to organized religion. I’ll bet that would get some camera time. Or at least a mention on the Factor so that O’Reilly can call them a bunch of loons.
As I said earlier, some of you are making the mistake of not understanding that Robertson is as much of a political entity as he is religious.
No, I understand fully that he is a political animal that manipulates religion to rake in tons of money that he can invest in a slave operation with Charles Taylor. The problem is that many people buy the crap he is selling and drink the Kool-Aid he is passing out. As somebody who was raised in a Protestant church, if you ask me which is a greater threat to Christianity today, Pat Robertson or openly gay couples getting married, I think the answer is obviously Pat Robertson.
Let me use an example: Rev. Jesse Jackson. I bet some of you disagree at times with what he says, but support some of his political causes.
Not me personally. I think he’s every bit the opportunist as Robertson. He just works the other side of the street.
Bottom line: Other than perhaps a Billy Graham or even a Jerry Falwell being allowed “air time” to denounce Pat Roberston,
I can’t speak about Graham, but no way Falwell would agree to denounce Robertson. He’s a con man cut from the same cloth.
name for me a major Christian Pastor who has the name recognition and national visibility?
You have to start somewhere. Robertson and Falwell didn’t just walk into their empires of greed and graft one day. It took years of conning old ladies out of their social security checks to get as rich and famous as they are now.
I know some of you already feel Christians are too involved in politics.
Every citizen has a right to participate in politics. What they don’t have is the right to make their religious beliefs the law of the land or expect the taxpayers to subsidize their faith.
Of course, I’m sure there are numerous people who are involved in politics and consider themselves to be Christians (Michael Moore, John Kerry, Al Gore, etc) that I am sure do not meet the definition many people have of Christianity.
This brings me full circle to another reason why I have left Christianity. I got tired of listening to people, many of whom wouldn’t cross the street to help out a starving child, tell me that I wasn’t a Christian because I didn’t vote for the “right” candidate. So, I’ve said fine. The fundamentalists want an exclusive right to say who is and is not a Christian, then count me out of the club. I’d rather focus on treating people the way that Jesus preached then to try and conform to their label.
Criticizing Christians for Pat’s random neural misfirings is like blaming blacks for whatever idiocy Al Sharpton spews forth.
The irony behind this statement is that Sharpton has toned down his rhetoric in recent years in an effort to broaden his appeal while Robertson has just gotten nuttier.
Why? It’s no reflection on you. I might question my beliefs if a huge majority of the people with the same beliefs were insane or evil but not just because a few media chosen “leaders” were.
No, but as I said above, the fact that too many people were telling me that I wasn’t a “real” Christion because of who I voted for or that I wasn’t in favor burning women who had abortions at the stake wore me down. Ultimately, I realized that I just didn’t want to be in the same club with people who preached that 9/11 was caused by homosexuals, feminists, and witches or that AIDS was God’s judgment on the wicked.
And yes, I know that not all Christians believe those things.
Den, you are the only example of a decent Christian I’ve ever seen. *applauds*
-Q.A., card-carrying agnostic
“I know some of you already feel Christians are too involved in politics. The reality is, most are not and so they do not have a platform to denounce Pat.”
Yeah, nobody paid any attention to those Catholics last year who were saying it was a sin to vote for John Kerry because he supported abortion rights…
–R.J.
I think “can’t” in this situation is more a situation of “won’t”.
Two different issues. I think you are right that most won’t. But why? In many cases it is because they already believe Pat is a nut, and think the overwhelming majority agree. If the news had not replayed his comments, virtually no one would have even known. Pat quite simply is not a mover and shaker in any way that matters. He has no clout or credibility. (Which may be why he utters such nonsense — because he finally gets the press he seems to crave.)
My point, though, is that short of a million pastor march (as someone suggested), they can’t in the sense of no one will listen. And quite frankly, a march is not needed. This is such a non-issue it is pathetic. No one other than a lone pscyopath is actually going to even consider doing what Pat suggests.
Compare that to someone who truly is making a difference. Rick Warren is pushing for a variety of programs to combat poverty, illiteracy, disease, etc., in America and around the world. He has made millions from his book, “Purpose Driven Life.” What has he done with it? He has repaid every dime his church has paid him in salary for the last 25 years. He is living on 10% of the royalties and putting 90% of the income into foundations that change peoples lives. And he is working to get other Christians and churches to join his “PEACE” initiative. I am glad to say, Rick Warren is much more representative of the Christians I know and the churches I have attended. While most are not as effective as he is, they are acting on their beliefs to make a real difference. I would much rather have a bunch of pastors doing things like Rick than bothering to do a purposeless protest of an insignificant TV commentator such as Pat Robertson.
So yes, you can say most pastors and Christians “won’t” say anything, but for at least some of us, it is because to do so is to quit doing things that really matter.
Iowa Jim
I just have problems with any powerful people or organizations who condem sexuality – homo or hetero – and the expression thereof – and then closes up ranks to protect it’s adulterers and peophiles – Jim Baker, the Catholic Church, the Boy Scouts….
Yeah, nobody paid any attention to those Catholics last year who were saying it was a sin to vote for John Kerry because he supported abortion rights…
I have plenty of Catholic friends who did ignore the church and voted for Kerry.
The Catholic Church is different than protestant churches. It is able to speak with a single voice in a way other churches or denominations are unable to match. But even there, other than the pope, most of the nation has no clue who is a Catholic Bishop or leader in America unless they happen to be Catholic (and for some of my friends, not even then).
Iowa Jim
Back in ’84, when Robertson was running for President against Mondale and Reagan, he held a rally at my college (Gannon University in Erie, PA). It was too much to resist: I had to go. So My friends and I showed up early and got seats near the front and listened to him rant on and on about the horrible shape tha country was in (the memory of this speech had me laughing out loud last summer when he was on TV nightly eulogizing Reagan as such a great man). Finally, he asked for questions from the students gathered. My hand shot up and I waspicked to be first. So I walked up to the microphone and told Pat that God had spoken to me last night and told me that I was to be his canidate for Vice-President. So where were we headed next? He gave me a look like I was Satan himself and then snapped “Get him out of here!” to some aides. I was bumrushed out of the auditorium like Hitler at a Bar mitzvah. The thing is, I think I would have made a great canidate.
What irritates me about Robertson is that he claims to be speaking on behalf of Christians
Actually Robertson claims to be speaking on behalf of GOD.
Oh fer crying out loud, like we all haven’t said the same thing about some DICKtator or the other in the past
Yes, but we aren’t the ones claiming to be preachers, we don’t have a TV show aired worldwide that makes it seem that he represents us, and what’s more, we’re not the ones condeming an entire major religion as being violent, claiming that ours is peaceful, then using our religious pulpit to call for the death of others.
===================
Couldn’t post this earlier, because I was out & didn’t have access to the link, but …
You know, it always causes me giggles when Christians complain of how ill-used and oppressed Christianity is in this country
For those who think Christians are being ‘oppressed”, “suppressed”, etc, this should be required reading:
“Life In Our Anti-Christian America”
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=649961&lastnode_id=124
I know it’s a long read, but nevertheless interesting.
Chavez and Robertson are both a can or two short of a six-pack, in my opinion. It’s a shame either one wields the influence they do. However, I do think it’s safe to say that Chavez does not speak for a majority of Venezualans, just as Robertson does not speak for a majority of Christians.
to quote Jon Stewart,
“Yes, the long war on Christianity. I pray that one day we may live in an America where Christians can worship freely, in broad daylight, openly wearing symbols of their religion, perhaps around their necks. And maybe — dare I dream it — maybe one day there could even be an openly Christian president, – or perhaps 43 of them – consecutively.”
What would you have done if he had agreed to it?
I dunno—maybe it’s time to burn down ALL the churches.
That’ll stop this kind of bulltish.
That last post was directed to Tim. The thing wouldn’t update until after I posted… so I thought mine would be right after his.
Ultimately, I realized that I just didn’t want to be in the same club with people who preached that 9/11 was caused by homosexuals, feminists, and witches or that AIDS was God’s judgment on the wicked.
So if we give yuou a list of evil non-Christians it may be enough to get you back in the fold?
Just kidding, believe what you want. just don’t let anyone else, especially a flea brain like Robertson make the choice for you.
I dunno—maybe it’s time to burn down ALL the churches.
That’ll stop this kind of bulltish.
Bulltish? You lyxdexlic?
Bottom line: Other than perhaps a Billy Graham or even a Jerry Falwell being allowed “air time” to denounce Pat Roberston, name for me a major Christian Pastor who has the name recognition and national visibility?
Roger Mahony?
Cardinal O’Connor certainly would have qualified while he was alive: anyone whose death causes a major Onion headline (“Heaven Tired of Hearing O’Connor Talk Of ‘How We Do Things In New York'”) has visibility.
I agree that there aren’t a lot of people, but I don’t think the set of prominent religious people who could speak out against Robertson and his ilk is *completely* empty.
TWL
“Actually Robertson claims to be speaking on behalf of GOD.”
Yet so many assume he speaks for Christians of all denominations.
::sighs, hops up on a soapbox and yells in her loudest voice::
PAT ROBERSTON AND ALL THOSE OTHER NUT JOBS THAT POSE AS CHRISTIANS DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME!
::hops down::
I return you now to your regular programming…
“I agree that there aren’t a lot of people, but I don’t think the set of prominent religious people who could speak out against Robertson and his ilk is *completely* empty.”
Here’s an idea…just a nutty thought, off the top of my head:
How about Bush?
Certainly the Christian-in-chief who claims to take his marching orders from God can’t possibly share Robertson’s murderous views, can he?
Or does he?
Here’s a man who would have NO problem denouncing the religious extremism that Robertson swills out. Bush opens his mouth and denounces Robertson as having anti-Christian attitudes, and it’s on every news cycle for the next 48 hours.
Perhaps he feels Robertson isn’t worth his time. But why? This guy is using a public pulpit to advocate murder and is causing an international stir. Certainly a few words from our Christian-in-chief to quell those fears and say, Hey, Robertson’s an áššhølë, don’t listen to him, wouldn’t be out of line.
Let me know when Bush gets around to that. I would find that very interesting.
PAD
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/23/D8C5NJBO0.html
U.S. Dodges Robertson Comments on Chavez
By BARRY SCHWEID
AP Diplomatic Writer
WASHINGTON
The Bush administration swiftly and unequivocally distanced itself Tuesday from a suggestion by religious broadcaster Pat Robertson that American agents assassinate Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, a frequent target of U.S. foreign policy.
Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, appearing at a Pentagon news conference, said when asked: “Our department doesn’t do that kind of thing. It’s against the law. He’s a private citizen. Private citizens say all kinds of things all the time.”
Well, if he can take the time out of his busy vacation schedule to comment about Cindy Sheehan, we should be hearing “Pat Robertson expressed his opinion. I disagree with it,” within the next day or so, right?
-Rex Hondo-
“Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, appearing at a Pentagon news conference, said when asked: “Our department doesn’t do that kind of thing. It’s against the law. He’s a private citizen. Private citizens say all kinds of things all the time.”
So what? Rumsfeld isn’t the Christian-in-Chief. To say nothing of the fact that invading a foreign country without provocation is against the law, and ignoring the Geneva convention is also against the law, so our hands aren’t exactly clean.
I want to see Bush himself say something like, “Pat Robertson is hypocritical for claiming to be a man of god while advocating murder. He is not a good Christian and should be ignored by anyone who truly believes in the teachings of Jesus.” THAT would impress me. As was pointed out above, if he can take the time to repeatedly crab about Cindy Sheehan (“I have to go on with my life.” God almighty) then he can cut five minutes of a busy day of picking up brush to say that Pat Robertson is a douche bag.
PAD
Unfortunately, such a statement on Bush’s part would effectively cut him off from his staunchest supporters, the “Christian” nutbars who think the US of A (Love it or leave it!) should be at the head of a worldwide theocracy.
-Rex Hondo-
***It’s not as if I’m against killing foreign heads of state if they prove to be dangerous to our country, but to have a religious leader saying it is just plain creepy.***
When is a foreign head of state dangerous? obviously if he points his weapons to your country and say “I’m gonna kill you” then he is dangerous. Maybe if he pays terorist to do it, too.
But, as wingnut as he is, all Chavez really did was to start selling oil to China (wich is actually wise on his part, beign the largest growing economy) and use some old fashioned anti-american rethoric to win votes (cause, you know, hes not a dictator, hes an elected president…maybe not the best election system but better than others).
Real problem here is his toppling of the activities of certain evangelic churches in his country. Evangelic churches like those who funneled money into the pockets of Guatemala’s military while they killed indians and catholic bishops in the name of “war on communism”. Evangelic churches that teach things like “catholic mass is a satan’s inspired ceremony” and advocate legal prosecution against anyone who defies their morals. Frankly, in Venezuela i think Chavez is just the lesser of two evils.
I’ve been lurking for awhile and I “decloaked” to ask why is it ok to use “Christian-in-chief” with sarcasm? Wouldn’t someone be upset if you said Muslim-in-chief or Jew-in-chief? This is why some feel there is an anti-christian vibe out there.