We’ll make a deal: we’ll stop desecrating the flag and the Pledge of Allegiance when they stop desecrating the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Star Trek pledge of allegiance gets kid suspended: “Cory Doctorow:
A young Star Trek fan was suspended from school for reciting his own version of the Pledge of Allegiance, in which he pledged to the United Federation of Planets. His mom has posted the hilarious story:‘So, anyway. What did he do?’ I picked at the hem of my sweatshirt, looked just to the right of her face. I couldn’t meet her eyes. I felt nervous. I felt underdressed. I wondered where 8 was.
So she told me what he did. And as she told me, I started to laugh. I didn’t laugh a little, either, but I belly-laughed and grabbed my stomach. My son stood with his class this morning, put small right hand over heart, faced the American flag, and recited his own personal pledge of allegiance:
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United Federation of Planets, and to the galaxy for which it stands, one universe, under everybody, with liberty and justice for all species.
‘Mrs. Jaworski. This isn’t humorous. The Pledge is an extremely important and patriotic moment each morning in the classroom. I am ashamed of your son’s behavior, and I hope you are, too.’
Link“
(Via Boing Boing.)
• 
As a parent and a very proud father, let me say that it is MY responsibility to teach MY kids self-discipline and self-control, not the public school system. No one elses. The teachers job is difficult enough.
Jerry,
Thanks from the bottom of the Doctor’s two hearts.
(Space Corp Directive 001001001)
I pledge allegiance to the Jupiter Mining Corporation, and to the Red Dwarf for which she rides, one station under Holly, with smoked kippers and Cinzano Biancos for all.
(“Good morning… Good morning…”)
I pledge allegiance to the Village, and to Number Two in whatever he/she plans, one Number, under Rover, with no liberty and no justice for Number Six.
If I were to re-write the pledge…
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United Stated of America, and to the ideals for which it stands, one nation of the people, by the people, and for the people, with liberty and justice for all.
-Rex Hondo-
Poor kid.
He ignored the Prime Directive and got caught in the Neutral Zone between the teacher and the principal.
I hope he got his shields up and got out of there at Warp Factor Nine. 😀
I love Classic Trek, but ooohhh, the price of Season One on DVD. Oy.
Brian Geers wrote:
“Personally, I’m on the same page as Steve here. The world would be a bit of a better place if there was a little more “logic and Pon Farrs for all.” :)”
Not to mention those funky Vulcan weapons and gear which puts Fear Factor to shame.
Live Long Improper. 😀
Brian Geers wrote:
“Personally, I’m on the same page as Steve here. The world would be a bit of a better place if there was a little more “logic and Pon Farrs for all.” :)”
Not to mention those funky Vulcan weapons and gear which would put Fear Factor to shame.
Live Long Improper. 😀
// That Chapin song has a strong message, but I think it’s silly to try and apply it here. This student wasn’t being creative or expressing himself or whatever — he was clowning around. //
“Clowning around” is very often being creative. What do you think Comedians, comedy writers, Improv performers, comedic actors, ect do for a living? They clown around.
// If the teacher had asked him what 4 + 5 was and he’d replied “20XX,” the situation would really be no different, but who here would be reacting with such outrage? //
I doubt a kid would have gotten suspended for that. It’s not the reaction that people are responding to, it’s the overreation.
// Reciting the Pledge is a rule. //
Not according to various legal decisions over the years. It is against the law to make a kid recite the pledge. I know schools don’t mention this to kids or thier parents but its true, they can’t force you to say the pledge.
// You break the rules, you get punished. That’s how kids are taught everywhere in the world. //
See Above.
// The teacher probably overdid it a bit, //
Yes she did.
// but demonizing her for having the gall to do her job is ridiculous. //
But she wasn’t doing her job, she was overreacting, which when dealing with children often does more harm then good.
// This is not in the remotest sense a case of “desecrating the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.” //
I’m willing to bet the ACLU could argue differently.
Craig said: “It shouldn’t take a 9/11 to get people to act to straighten things out. But, apparently, it does.”
Unfortuneately the dirtbag-in-chief and his neo-cons have only made the country WORSE since 9/11. America is turning in the religion-based governments it preaches against (at least when it’s not a christain-based religion).
Just for those not paying attention, PAD didn’t post this little news bit, Glenn did.
As always, there must be more to this story. Does it sound silly and outrageous? Sure. Could there be justification for the suspension? Of course.
I think it’s the teacher’s statement to the parent that makes it more outrageous than justified…”‘Mrs. Jaworski. This isn’t humorous. The Pledge is an extremely important and patriotic moment each morning in the classroom. I am ashamed of your son’s behavior, and I hope you are, too.'”
Fine, be ashamed, feel bad, get angry…but that’s no cause for a suspension, because it’s based on the idea that it’s *wrong* to abuse the pledge in that way. Like some are trying to get us to believe that it’s *wrong* to burn the US flag, or speak out in opposition to our government. It’s taking the idea of “you’re either with us, or against us” way too far, and shows just how unrealistic that viewpoint is.
On the other hand discipline in school is a very key concept to maintain. Could it be that this kid is a smart-ášš joker that’s often interrupting class at inappropriate times? And if that’s the case, and this is just one more instance where he sees an opportunity to disrupt classroomm discipline, that I’ve got no problem with the suspension.
In any case, that teacher also needs a good lesson from the administration in how not to impose discipline based on a patriotic basis. In my school system, we stopped saying the pledge by the time we got to middle school. I didn’t miss it. I didn’t feel any less like an American. Of course, up until that point, I didn’t really understand what it was I was saying…and just when I got to the age that it might have started to sink in, the practice was stopped.
Maybe, instead of trying to brainwash our kids into being patriotic, we should wait until they’re old enough to understand the meaning of the words, why they’re important, and give them the choice of whether they want to speak them or not.
It’s not the reaction that people are responding to, it’s the overreation.
“For every action, there is a ridiculous and overzealous reaction”? 🙂
Robbnn wrote:
> I wasn’t commenting about the kid, I was
> commenting on US, the people on this
> thread.
Thank you for clarifying, as that wasn’t clear (at least it wasn’t to me) from your original post.
Personally, I think this is an admirable young man, and I’m glad his mother undertook an active defense of him.
>> Do all us liberals have to sit at the back of
>> the bus?”
> I’d wager if the far right could have it’s way
> we liberals wouldn’t be allowed on the bus.
Haven’t you read anything by Ann Coulter? She doesn’t wants “liberals” even on the bus, but rather run over by it.
It continues to amaze and disgust me that someone who wishes to murder or have executed by the state those who have political difference with her is considered a legitimate commentator on current events. In a sane, reasonable society, she would be considered beyond the pale, and shunned by polite society or hospitalized as mentally ill, not given employment in mass media.
>> Do all us liberals have to sit at the back of
>> the bus?”
> I’d wager if the far right could have it’s way
> we liberals wouldn’t be allowed on the bus.
Haven’t you read anything by Ann Coulter? She doesn’t wants “liberals” even on the bus, but rather run over by it.
It continues to amaze and disgust me that someone who wishes to murder or have executed by the state those who have political difference with her is considered a legitimate commentator on current events. In a sane, reasonable society, she would be considered beyond the pale, and shunned by polite society or hospitalized as mentally ill, not given employment in mass media.
> If this was a first offense, it was too harsh a
> punishment. If it’s repeated…well, a teacher
> does have a right to keep order in her
> classroom.
There have been no indications in any accounts of the incident that there was any disorder at any time. The young man in question was reciting along with his classmates as a group, and merely said his version to himself during the group recitation.
Is it OK to burn a UFP flag?
Not only is there no indication that the child was disrupting class, the teacher didn’t even notice or react. It was the parent of a classmate (presumably a child talking about “what happened at school today”). It is unclear in the original posts whether the parent complained to the teacher or directly to the pricipal.
So if the child wasn’t disrupting class, this is all about the words he spoke. But from this the child has learned a valuable lesson – Creativity isn’t wrong, but sometimes adults are.
Jester
😉
David Bjorlin wrote:
> No, it isn’t sickening. The child abuse case I
> have on the calendar for next week, in which
> the mother can’t even be bothered to bring
> her child in for trial preparation, is sickening.
> The Abu Ghraib mess is sickening, and the
> Guantanamo Bay allegations, if true, are
> sickening. The murder of Kitty Genovese
> was sickening, and the non-response of the
> onlookers was more sickening. That people
> find time to be outraged by this picayune
> nonsense, when there are real outrages in
> the world, is sickening.
I would posit that this was a matter of (admittedly comparatively minor) abuse of a child by a school official. While there was no physical abuse, I am certainly of the opinion that there was psychological abuse here. I would have acted in the defense of one of my sons in much the same way as this boy’s mother did.
> This is one child clowning around in an
> amusing fashion, and one teacher
> overreacting.
There is no indication that clowning, however one defines it, was involved. This young man was making a personal statement of heartfelt belief, or so it seems to me.
> If he’d launched into a discussion of warp
> engines during a science class, the
> behavior would have been precisely the
> same, but nobody would have cared.
As one who has participated in such discussions, I can say it would depend on the context. If the class is discussing possible or fictional extrapolations of advanced physics as a thought exercise, then, yes, talking about “warp drive”, etc., would be okay, but not in a basic physics class where one is trying to learn what works and what doesn’t in the real world. Context is relevant.
> But because an eight year old kid, who
> almost certainly has no political objectives of
> his own, happened to choose a political
> hot-button in which to show off, you’re
> sickened by school discipline. This is as
> asinine as the humorless principal’s
> behavior.
But he did have political objectives of his own, and all reports indicate that he was not showing off. As reported, this appears to me to be a fairly clear-cut case of political repression on the part of a humorless, narrow-minded, abusive school bureaucrat with the aid of an equally reactionary parent assisting in the class.
The difference between this incident and the more horrible physically violent examples you cite is one of degree, not of kind. In a third-world dictatorship, the same incident would have been punished violently, for the same reasons as this young man was punished.
Rex Hondo wrote:
> I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the
> United Stated of America, and to the ideals
> for which it stands, one nation of the people,
> by the people, and for the people, with liberty
> and justice for all.
Works for me. Nice rewrite.
“Rex Hondo wrote:
> I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the
> United Stated of America, and to the ideals
> for which it stands, one nation of the people,
> by the people, and for the people, with liberty
> and justice for all.
Works for me. Nice rewrite.”
Agreed, to bad those in powers can’t say it with a striaght face or an ounce of honesty or integrity.
Actually the thing that astonished me most about the story was that the pupils in that class (school?) are required to recite the Pledge of Allegiance EVERY day. Seems a bit much. I sometimes wonder if the recurring heated controversies involving the Pledge as well as the treatment of the US national flag seem almost like symptoms of some kind of insecurity about US national identity. Also, especially since the addition of “under God”, it does smack a bit of turning loyalty to the nation into some kind of religious activity (either turning the US into a deity or into a divine enterprise, “God’s Own Country”). Charles M. Schulz may have gently poked fun at this in a “Peanuts” strip where Linus (IIRC) recites the Pledge, sits down, then stands up again to add: “Amen.” And it seems to occupy a position on the course of events that was or is occupied by communal prayer in nations with established religions or in denominational schools.
Describing it as “fascist” is going overboard, still, is there anything comparable in other nations that aren’t ruled by totalitarian regimes?
(Btw, any chance of the proposed amendment being broadened to include state flags to prevent protesters from burning the flags of the 50 states to circumvent it?)
Not that I want to sound negative. I have very fond memories of the year I spent in the US as a child, attending pre-school and starting first grade at Frances E. Willard School, Pasadena. (As far as my own memory and that of my parents can tell, the six-year-olds in my class were not yet required to recite the Pledge in 1964, although I did learn to sing “America the Beautiful” (with gusto!) and to stand at attention with my hand on my heart when the flag was raised.)
“seem almost like symptoms of some kind of insecurity about US national identity.”
Give that man a prize. You know you’re in trouble when your leaders start to take more action to protect the symbols of a nation (flag, the pledge) than they do to protect the people of the nation (reducing health care programs, education funding, and bankruptcy protections, providing our soldiers at war with the best available protective gear, etc.)
Still waiting for a non-blogging news source to pick this story up, and provide some details confirming its veracity…
I think it’s the teacher’s statement to the parent that makes it more outrageous than justified…”‘Mrs. Jaworski. This isn’t humorous. The Pledge is an extremely important and patriotic moment each morning in the classroom. I am ashamed of your son’s behavior, and I hope you are, too.'”
Do we know this is what the teacher actually said? For that matter, do we have any news stories on this, or is the only account the repeated linking to the mother’s blog, who, understandably is biased toward her own son.
“Is it OK to burn a UFP flag?”
Yes, but only if you use a phaser. 🙂
Howard, does it matter if this actually occured or not? Even if it’s totally fabricated, my opinion that such a response in that situation would be just as valid. I’m not calling the teacher a bunch of names based on hearsay…just stating an opinion based on the discussion.
“(“Good morning… Good morning…”)
I pledge allegiance to the Village, and to Number Two in whatever he/she plans, one Number, under Rover, with no liberty and no justice for Number Six.”
I am NOT a number! I AM A FREE MAN!!!
I love that show.
Actually, speaking of stupid rules, at my high school, we were required to have ID cards, which we had to carry on a lanyard around our neck. Not to have this was a crime punishable by a weeks suspension. Nice way of preparing the children for society. This way, you have a whole generation used to carrying their “Papers” like some kind of bad war movie. It was really sickening.
“Actually, speaking of stupid rules, at my high school, we were required to have ID cards, which we had to carry on a lanyard around our neck. Not to have this was a crime punishable by a weeks suspension. Nice way of preparing the children for society. This way, you have a whole generation used to carrying their “Papers” like some kind of bad war movie. It was really sickening.”
I work for a Federal agency. Take out the week’s suspension, and you have my building. And a lot of other buildings. Face it, we don’t live in a society where you know everyone, and it’s realy easy, absent some form of easliy recognizable device, to tell who belongs where. Any place where security is an issue uses this these days…airports, Federal buildings. I think having schools require them is a good idea. It won’t stop another Columbine, since that was committed by students, but it might stop another Olkahoma City bombing (granted, I know those guys just drove the van up to the building, but you can’t even do that these days without some form of ID).
Requiring ID badges is SOP in state government and is becoming more and more prevalent in the private sector, too.
Unfortunately, concerns about security are forcing schools and employers to take such measures. That being said, I think a week’s suspension is overboard, but then schools abandoned all reason when it comes to what punishments are appropriate when they started adopting “zero tolerance” (ie, zero common sense) policies.
Posted by Michael Brunner at June 23, 2005 10:53 AM
When someone asks me if I believe/think that there’s life in outer space, I usually reply ‘I hope so. I’d hate to think that the universe stopped trying to create intelligent life after only one attempt’. This opinion is proven every time someone doesn’t get what I say.
My ex-wife used to do a zine for the APA SFPA entitled “Hydrogen and Stupidity” — after the two most common things in the Universe.
In direct response to your post, remember the words of The Man In The Refrigerator — “Pray there’s inteligence somewhere out in space — ‘Cos there’s bûggër-áll down here on the Earth…”
Having followed the posted links back to the original blog post, i am a bit more cynical about whether this really happened — particularly because the author has expanded the post to offer CafePress t-shirts and mugs imprinted with “her son’s” cute pledge for sale…
1
Personally, I’ve never understood the pledge of allegience. From what I understand, this is a few sentences you have to say at the beginning of every day in public school… for what reason? Is it legally binding?
I find the US’s fixation on the symbols more than the principles quite odd. Your national anthem is about your flag rather than your nation itself, you plaster your flag over everything, you have kids say the words before some even know what they mean… I just don’t get it. We have no analogue to the pledge of allegience, Our national anthem is about our nation, and the only time I worry about my flag is when I pin a small version to my collar when I’m out of the country, just to let people know I’m not from around.
Your national anthem is about your flag rather than your nation itself
Our national anthem, the Star-Spangled Banner, was written during the War of 1812 (US vs Britain). It was written by Francis Scott Key while he was detained aboard a British ship during the attack on Baltimore.
After much bombing over night, the flag was still seen waving in the morning
So, the anthem is a theme of endurance against attackers, etc etc.
As a song, I find it to be quite powerful and appropriate for our nation. I don’t think it’s meant to make the flag out to an end-all symbol of this country though.
Posted by: Craig J. Ries at June 24, 2005 02:14 PM
I don’t think it’s meant to make the flag out to an end-all symbol of this country though.
No, that seems to be Congress’s job.
If you want to go by simple wording, Britain’s national anthem is about protecting the life of whatever inbred moron currently reigns over them, while France’s is about slaughtering their enemies, which is kind of ironic.
Craig, perhaps you want to forward your summation of the events surrounding the creation of our national anthem on to congress? Seems there are some members there that have forgotten that the anthem has a point to it, rather than just a glorification of a symbol.
Now, if early reports from the senate are accurate, and there are at least a few republicans that detest the idea of passing an amendment allowing flag burning, at least we have some hope that this idiocy doesn’t get passed.
Craig, perhaps you want to forward your summation of the events surrounding the creation of our national anthem on to congress?
I’d love to, but we poor Independents don’t have much sway these days. Not that we ever did. 🙂
“I work for a Federal agency. Take out the week’s suspension, and you have my building. And a lot of other buildings.”
Your point is well taken. In places where secure information is processed, or where there might be a terrorist threat, or where you might just need to identify yourself in a hurry (say in a hospital, to get quick access to patient records.) My point was is that requiring students to wear picture ID’s for no real reason was a little disturbing. I remember a few years ago when they had the little micro-chips that went under your skin, my worry wasn’t that the government would require all citizens to have these under their skin, but that private companies would require them. My problem wasn’t with the idea per say, but more with the idea that people were getting comfortable with it. I felt it created an air of “Implied Suspicion.” One of the reasons the school board passed them was so teachers could instantly identify trouble-makers, and I felt that the implication was that we were all a bunch of hooligans who could riot at any moment. Again, in some places they make sense. that place is not in a school.
I had to say the pledge and sing a song everymorning in elementary. Patriotic songs mon-thurs and the school song on friday. Even in kindergarden I knew what allegience meant. I just didn’t care all that much at the time.
Knuckles said:
As a parent and a very proud father, let me say that it is MY responsibility to teach MY kids self-discipline and self-control, not the public school system. No one elses. The teachers job is difficult enough.
Very true. The sad fact is that too many parents don’t do that. It falls on the teachers to try to train a child in proper social conduct.
There was a bit of discussion earlier about how teachers stamp out all individuality and creativity and how once a child starts to show too much of either they diagnose ADHD. Well, as the middle child, only girl, and younger sister to a severely ADHD brother, I say THANK GOD FOR RITALIN!!! Mom went through MANY baby sitters when we were growing up. They never had a problem with my younger brother or myself, but having a 1-year old walk in the front door, climb to the top of the rock-fronted chimney (every day, many times a day), and start speaking in complete, clear sentences tended to wear them out. This was him at one, imagine him at 10, in a classroom full of kids, with one poor teacher. Thankfully, we have a great mom who taught us well. When he broke things he would always apologize.
And now, after this rant, an amusing though sad story. Mom teaches “gifted ed” in grades 1-5. Teachers can refer students for testing if they think they should be in the gifted class. Every year she will get many referels of students who “don’t seem very engaged in their work”, “He is always distracted and finishes his work quickly. I think he might need more.” Yes, dicipline at home. First, who isn’t easily distracted in elementary, and second, if the work isn’t right, it’s not done.
One last thing, then I’ll shutup. Everyone, and I mean Everyone, should watch the Nanny 911 or Supernannies tv show. You’ll notice that the only thing wrong with the family is the parents. Say no once, and stick to it. If you say no for five minutes and then give in to your whining child, what does your child learn? To whine for five minutes and he’ll get his way, every time.
“And we will force you to be patriotic even if we have to beat you with this here “Freedom Stick”!”
Does that mean it was originally French?
Ray: Does no one accept the possibility Craig’s comment was a summation of his feelings after reading numerous incidents which stretch the limits of credulity — most of them manufactured in the USA? PAD’s website lists example after example of such items. Perhaps this incident was one of many (the proverbial “straw that broke the camel’s back”) prompting Craig to submit his comment.
Luigi Novi: No, I do not accept that. Even if it was a characterization based on “numerous” examples instead of one, so what? My reaction is the same. Are those incidents the sole criteria by which one judges the entire country? Craig points out the 200 people in the House who made an unwise vote. So what? What about those who didn’t? What about people like us who are offended by those situations, and speak out against them, and even work to resolve them? Aren’t those “America” too? Isn’t Peter’s site part of the “country”? Again, why characterize the country only by the bad?
Again, why characterize the country only by the bad?
Because, these days, the bad tends to outweigh the good.
How so? In what way? It seems to me that bad simply gets more press precisely because it’s bad. The good isn’t news.
The good isn’t news.
And what good has Congress done lately?
They pass a bill making bankrupcty more difficult, and reject every amendment to the bill that would help those who actually need it the most (elderly, military personnel).
They pass a bill in the House to outlaw flag burning, which just goes to show that they put too much stock in a symbol, rather than doing more to make sure our soldiers aren’t dying on a daily basis.
Somebody makes a comment about torture at Gitmo? Well, they need to be thrown out of office. So does any Republican willing to compromise with Democrats.
In the meantime, we won’t import drugs from Canada, because, heaven forbid, the prices get lowered for everybody and the drug companies lose some profits.
We have no fûçkìņg clue as to what’s going on with the quagmire known as Iraq. College tuition? More and more outrageous and nothing being done.
This country is taking steps backward every day.
Because the November elections, the increasing popularity of moves towards censorship and stronger governmental restriction of freedoms, of dissent, of questioning, seem to indicate that the majority of the country WANTS things which Craig (among other of us) see as bad. The jury is still out, of course, on whether the current state of government is a passing phase, a hiccup before retuning to a more opened and balanced status, or, as many of us were left feeling after the election, indicative of the future course of this country. For me, post-election was the first time that I considered, even half-seriously, that this country may someday not be MY country anymore. I’ve gotten (cautiously) more optimistic since then, but I don’t necessarily think Craig – and I did understand exactly what he meant by his original post, as I first read it – has.
Oops. While I was answering Luigi for him, Craig posted a – much more detailed – reply for himself. Oh well 🙂
I’ve read some of the posts regarding wearing ID tags for government work. I work at a government file storage site & we had to wear these for a few weeks until we got fed up with them. Around the same time they decided to run bomb drills. So we have to congregate in the middle of the warehouse we’re working in (there are around seven on site) so a head count can be taken to make sure everyones ok. We then get told we can’t wait outside as the bomb could be placed at the doorway & if we go outside this could set the bomb off (keep in mind this is all still a practice) at this point someone says “What if you’re working outside the warehouse & the bomb alarm goes off?” the reply was “Well you have to come back inside.” So lots of confused looks & then the next question “How does the bomb know if you’re entering or leaving?” We never did get a answer to this.
“[Congresses] pass[es] a bill making bankrupcty more difficult.”
Your position is that bankruptcy should be painless, easy and simple for everyone? Figures. It frees one person of debt while saddling others with that same debt. The liberal way of life!
“They pass a bill in the House to outlaw flag burning, which just goes to show that they put too much stock in a symbol, rather than doing more to make sure our soldiers aren’t dying on a daily basis.”
Absolutely! They obviously WANT the soldiers to die. It will increase support for the war! Errr… won’t it?
“Somebody makes a comment about torture at Gitmo? Well, they need to be thrown out of office. So does any Republican willing to compromise with Democrats.”
I agree! There should be no compromise with treason.
“In the meantime, we won’t import drugs from Canada, because, heaven forbid, the prices get lowered for everybody and the drug companies lose some profits.”
We? How many drugs are YOU importing, hmmm?
“We have no fûçkìņg clue as to what’s going on with the quagmire known as Iraq.”
Substitute “I” for “we” and you are so right! It’s YOU who have no clue.
“This country is taking steps backward every day.”
Or, to put it another way, “This country is disagreeing with me more every day. The horror … the horror …”
X-Ray: “Or, to put it another way, ‘This country is disagreeing with me more every day. The horror … the horror …'”
Are you sure your own views are mainstream? Look at what you’re doing: setting yourself up as better than everyone here, and “here” is the web page of an author you’ve never read.
Are you thinking this behavior is “mainstream,” or even admirable?