When someone is saying stuff about me that is deliberately false, I say they lied. “He lied.” “He’s fulla crap.” “He doesn’t know what he’s talking about.” “That’s bull.”
That’s how I put it.
So Todd McFarlane claims that Neil “gave away” all rights to Miracleman, and ha ha on Neil. And Neil, in the course of calmly dissecting Todd’s claims, says:
“Beyond that, he’s also distancing himself from the reality-based community in his description of the result of the legal case.”
Distancing himself from the reality-based community. You gotta love that.
PAD
• 
// And while we’re on the subject of the NJ Turnpike, why are the cashiers at the rest stops so incredibly stupid? //
It’s all part of an insidious plan to get you to use Ez Pass. Actually, cashiers anywere are not a high paying, high qualifiying job. It’s considered menial service and pays as much as a menial service job would pay. Thus people with education or the finances to get the education usuallly don’t get those kinds of jobs. The people who don’t have any education or low education and don’t have much prospects get those jobs and customer service suffers for it. I see no evidence that the cashiers on the turnpike are any more or less stupid then the cashiers at Wall Mart or anywhere else. Hëll in my experience the cashiers in the NJ/NY area are absolutly brilliant compared to cashiers in the south, although the ones in the south are usually more polite. In any event the point is if you’re gonna pay someone peanuts, you’re going to get the bottom of the barrel. Want smarter cashiers, pay them better.
// And what’s the deal with the not having self-serve pumps at any of your gas stations? //
I like the fact that we don’t have self service especially when the myth that self service saves you money is just that, a myth. See the gas stations are supposed to not pay an attendent and then pass that savings on to you. When self service gas stations started many stations had a choice between full and self service, and you automatically paid less for self service on the conciet that you were getting less then the guy in full serice, (and full service back then often meant full service, checking the oil, cleaning the windows, ect). Soon the gas stations discovered they could make bigger profits if they charged the same for self service and we’ve all suffered for it. And of course that set the stage for other industies to follow, banks got ATM’s and originally there was incentives to use them instead of teller, (yes, Virgina it’s true banks used to give you back money to use the ATM). Now banks not only save money on not paying a teller salary, (and possibly benifits), but they charge you an high fee to on top of it. Can we say laughing all the way to the bank. But I digress.
People love the idea of self service because it’s supposed to be faster, (sometimes it is and sometimes it isn’t), but they never consider the fact that they are really being ripped off in the process.
The idea of allowing self service at gas stations has come up every once in a while an it has always been voted down. People in Jersey don’t want it and since we have practially the lowest gas prices in the country it’s hard to make people swallow the argument that it will save them money when they’re allready paying a lot less then the gas stations accross the border that are self serve.
// Nothing makes long distance travel more fun that waiting 20 minutes to pay 10 cents more per gallon for the privilege of having somebody who can’t speak English pump your gas for you. //
Now you’re just being ignorant, first of all New Jersey has among the lowest gas prices in the country. I believe we are in the top two for low gas prices although at the moment I can’t remeber the other state that’s lower then us, so I doubt you’re paying 10 cents more for gas. I live in Jersey but close enought to New York that I’m regularly there, gas is sometime up to 30 cents cheaper over here then there. I work on the boarder of New York State with people who drive in from New York, Conneticit, and even Penn. Everone, buys thier gas in Jersey becasue, say it with me, “the gas here is cheaper”. I’ve seen pumps in NY for over 2 bucks a gallon for at least the last six months, we’ve just hit the two dollar mark in the past week or two, and there are still a number of gas stations that are still below the two dollar mark. Secondly, I’ve lived here all my life, drove here as long as I’ve had a license, have I waited in line for gas, sure, but I could probably count on one hand and still have fingers left over the amount of time I’ve waited twenty minutes or more, especially on the major highways. Usually getting gas takes about 5 minutes, ten tops. And I’m not even gonna address the potential racism in the “can’t speak English” remark.
we’ve just hit the two dollar mark in the past week or two,
Ooh, now I can’t wait to move back. Silicon Valley is not-so-comfortably in the $2.35 range at best at the moment.
Of course, I’m also hoping not to have a 25-miles-each-way commute next year…
TWL
I’m a bit confused, for the love of pete how did this thread of Neil gaimen and his clever coinage of a phrase (or at least clever allusion to said phrase) turn into a dialogue regarding New Jersey and it’s merits (or demerits as the case may be)?
It’s almost awe inspiring.
The price of gas fluctuates all the time, but everytime I’ve been to Jersey, the gas has been cheaper on this side of the Delaware.
And if you see “potential racism” in the simple observation that most gas attendents in Jersey can’t speak English, then lighten up, buddy.
I can only assume that Blue Ball is some distance away from one of the other cities I mentioned earlier…
Actually, Blue Ball is only ten miles from Intercourse.
// The price of gas fluctuates all the time, but everytime I’ve been to Jersey, the gas has been cheaper on this side of the Delaware. //
According to this neat web site I just found the adverage price in Delaware is almost 10 cents higher then Jersey
http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/sbsavg.asp
Futhermore Jersey is the only state where the adverage price of gas is under two dollars, on adverage we have the lowest priced gas in the country. (And you don’t even have to pump it yourself). Might I suggest that where you get gas in your own state has an unusually below adverage price, not only for your state but for the nation. Or perhaps you’re just using your obvious anti-NJ bias to cloud your memories and cause you to exaggerate on the negitive side just so you can be snide and nasty and put yourself above people in Jersey. For that matter, if you’re going on a long trip why did you have to stop in Jersey for gas all? Our state is realitivly small, unless you have a real gas guzzler of a car you can get from one side of the state to the other on a major highway without having to stop for gas, (I know that for a fact, I’ve done it, many times even before I brought a hybird). So it begs the question, if you dislike our gas stations so much, why do you stop at them?
// And if you see “potential racism” in the simple observation that most gas attendents in Jersey can’t speak English, then lighten up, buddy. //
“Most”? So you’ve been to every single gas station in the state? Spoken to every single gas station employee in the state? In other words, actually collected enought data to back up that statement? I buy gas in this state all the time, (well less so since I brought a hybird, but I digress), most of the gas stations attendants I encouter speak english. The fact that you causually drop a bigoted statement into converstation and then, with nothing to back it up, act as if it’s a bonifid unarguable fact, telling me to “lighten up”, says volumes about you, and the volumes it says isn’t pretty.
So you’ve been to every single gas station in the state?
No, but I’ve been to quite a few fast food restaurants around the Denver Metro…
To potentially lay the Jersey vs The World re gas prices argument to rest, it is very conceivable that the difference in price in NJ could have to do with lower per gallon tax rates and could have nothing to do with the actual cost of the fuel. Has anyone analysed the net cost of the fuel before the taxes are added?
Now….can we get back to Neil, Todd, Peter, and the potential for Todd to bemoan his worthless balls?
Does anyone know the status of the settlement (or the award if you wish) that Neil won and/or the status of Todd’s corporate structure and how it might currently affect his ability to continue business?
// To potentially lay the Jersey vs The World re gas prices argument to rest, it is very conceivable that the difference in price in NJ could have to do with lower per gallon tax rates and could have nothing to do with the actual cost of the fuel. Has anyone analysed the net cost of the fuel before the taxes are added? //
Don’t know about other states but in Jersey the taxes are added to the price at the pump, thus if the pump says $1.99, it’s a $1.99, not $1.99 + tax.
Den:
“Oh, and Mitch –
Frisco
Frisco
Frisco”
Ad Infinitum
Hi Den,
That actually cracked me up! Thanks, I needed a laugh today.
Rock on!
M
PAD said
“…Todd got gargantuan bang for his buck. For a while you couldn’t turn on any TV or radio without them talking about him, plus it got him huge contacts and contracts for his toy line.”
You know, I did not know that. I admit I shared the thought that that was an absurd amount of money, but to actually get business deals from it does help.
I have always been one of those who appreciated the business mind of Todd, of all the original ‘Image’ guys he seems to be the only one still going strong, or at least strongest (haven’t really kept up much with them as my comic buying habits have slacked WAY off since then).
According to this neat web site I just found the adverage price in Delaware is almost 10 cents higher then Jersey
So what? I live in Pennsylvania. Maybe you’re a little cheaper now, on average, the price has been higher in NJ than PA.
And again, I’d suggest a humor transplant. Yours has obviously atrophied due to lack of use.
Was it a shrewd Todd Mind, or a lucky break into artaction figures? I dunno, but whatever, SOMEone out there had a cool idea of collectible “action” figures for adults (honestly, what kids play with Spawn action figures? They’d have surely been recalled for putting out countless eyes by now…unless they’re forced to play with them without removing them from the packaging). It tapped into or even created a whole new market. And Todd’s national exposure because of the huge sums he shelled out for baseball memorabelia probably didn’t hurt his business rep. Think about it: You’re the Hasbro toy exec. Who’s going to make a better impression on you? Some guy that draws “funny books?” Oh, and he had that HBO Spawn thing. Based on his kiddie books. Right, next. OR, the guy that just dropped $3 mil on McGuire’s record baseball? The first guy belongs on Saturday morning cartoons. The second guy has some serious cash, which means investors, which means even more serious cash for Hasbro…or whoever bought into that deal.
Money opens a lot of doors, and whatever the publicity value of Todd’s collecting hobby, it proved that money was something he had a lot of.
PAD, if I’m applying the Inverse Irony interpretation of your Todd v. PAD debate results, I’d hardly say you’ve not gone anywhere. And I’d much rather see you maintain your work’s integrity and high quality than have you sell out for the sake of a quick buck.
Don’t know about other states but in Jersey the taxes are added to the price at the pump, thus if the pump says $1.99, it’s a $1.99, not $1.99 + tax.
That’s the way most states work, I thought.
McFarlane
I attended the University of Richmond in Richmond, Virginia. Half the student body comes from Pennsylvania or New Jersey. You could tell the students who came from New Jersey, because the first few weeks of the fall semester you’d see them lost at the gas station right off campus, and there would be letters in the school newspaper about what a frelling shame it was that people had to pump their own gas. One of the gas stations on Three Chopt Road actually had full-service pumps, which confused the hëll out of me one time–what the hëll was a full service pump?
“Don’t know about other states but in Jersey the taxes are added to the price at the pump, thus if the pump says $1.99, it’s a $1.99, not $1.99 + tax.”
OK, here we go:
Most jurisdictions charge you the gas price at the pump. BUT, within that price there are a variety of TAXES that are included. So for example, the actual cost of the gas might be 50 cents per gallon. But then there is state gasoline tax, federal gasoline tax, federal highway maintenance tax (I might be inventing things here), state maintenance tax, state or federal pollution tax, national gouge your tuchus tax, etc.
So everywhere you go, the pump price is what you pay. All I postulated is that NJ’s tax regime may be more benign than that of its neighbours…..until of course someone in the state legislature decides that they need a new tax and that gas is the easiest place to get it.
Now, back to Todd……it would be ironic if in fact the comments made above turned out to be true. He’d be the Richie Rich of the comics world. Be that as it may, anyone have any of the info I asked for yet?
So what is the consensus then? Are people from Jersey too lazy or too stupid to pump their own gas. 😛
Maybe everyone should just take some Beano and we’d get rid of all this gas.
Tom Galloway: For ten points, which of these was written by someone raised in New Jersey, and which was written by someone raised in Britain?
Luigi Novi: Watch it, Galloway. 🙂
And just out of curiosity, did Albert Einstein ever live in YOUR state? Hmmm??
Tim Lynch: Re: the “Born to Run” as state song — I can’t be the only one who remembers a great stand-up routine from Robert Wuhl riffing on that exact bit.
Luigi Novi: Yeah, not a lot of anthems with the word “suicide” in ’em, eh? And imagine Grandma standing up in a baseball stadium yelling, “WARRRRRRRR!!!!!” 🙂
Tim Lynch: I’m from *northern* NJ. 🙂
Luigi Novi: Didn’t know that. Whereabouts, Tim? Hudson County? Bergen? Me, I live in Union City.
Tim Lynch: Besides, calling it “Jersey” is rather like using “Frisco” when you’re in the SF Bay area. It’s good way to ensure you end up in the actual bay…
Luigi Novi: With all due respect to you and Harlan Ellison, I disagree. I use “Jersey.” (Or is it okay with you cuz I live here?)
Darren J. Hudak: And I’m not even gonna address the potential racism in the “can’t speak English” remark.
Luigi Novi: That has nothing to do with racism. It’s a valid observation that many people in the area (at least the one I live in) do not bother to learn to speak English, even if they work in occupations where it’s vital, like driving a bus, and even discriminate against non-Latinos who do not speak Spanish (which has happened to me on more than one occasion).
So what is the consensus then? Are people from Jersey too lazy or too stupid to pump their own gas. 😛
Now, now.
It wasn’t all that long ago (ie, within my 23 years of life) that there were full service stations still around in Illinois and Iowa. 🙂
Yeah, Pennsylvania once had full service stations. Then people realized that you could train a monkey to pump gas.
Recently, there was a bill introduced to require full service pumps at gas stations in PA. It was laughed out of the General Assembly.
As long as we’re completely off topic, I think if someone were to open up a full service gas station (in any state) today, they’d do pretty well. After all, as long as the price was the same, who _wouldn’t_ want to have someone pump your gas for you, so you didn’t have to get out of the car?
Of course, when I was a kid, and we still _had_ full service stations, I always got out of the car to keep an eye on the attendant, and make sure he was putting the gas into the car’s tank, and not, say, a gas tank on the ground. One of the downsides of full service was that sometimes an attendant would try to scam you, somehow.
Getting back on topic, I have to say, I like Neil Gaiman’s turn of phrase.
Also slightly on topic, Neil Gaiman addressed the “Frisco” vs. “San Francisco” name in _Sandman_, in which Joshua Norton pointed out that the former was more appropriate because the town was named for Saint Francis.
Rick
If you haven’t guessed, I’d rather pump my own gas anytime, even in the pouring rain. I’ve never had a positive experience buying gas in Jersey.
Never.
I’ve been on the NJ Turnpike on days when they had one attendent working six pumps at once, with lines three or four cars deep. Off the Turnpike, I’ve had a greasy rag rubbed on my windshield and called “service.” I’ve had to wait for 20 minutes for an attendent. One told me with a straight face that I couldn’t pump my own gas because I’d blow myself up.
I’m not disabled. I’m not lazy. I’m not stupid. I can pump my own gas, why would I want to have somebody do something I can do myself?
Den: “I’m not disabled. I’m not lazy. I’m not stupid. I can pump my own gas, why would I want to have somebody do something I can do myself?”
Den, if you were at a clean, well-run gas station with uniformed attendants (enough to cover all the pumps) who provided actual service (like the old Texaco stations, in which attendants also checked your tires, oil and other fluids) rather than the half-hearted “service” you described, would you still choose to pump your own gas?
Nothing wrong with that if you did, but I do think that if someone opened a gas station as I described above with good quality service, they’d be pretty successful. Given how people, as a rule, tend to prefer those things that require the least amount of effort, I think many would choose to let someone else pump their gas, if they had the option.
Now me, I’ve been pumping my own gas for more than 20 years. So I’d probably continue to do so. But I’ve got to admit it’d be nice to have the option of letting someone else handle that chore from time to time.
Rick
Den, if you were at a clean, well-run gas station with uniformed attendants (enough to cover all the pumps) who provided actual service (like the old Texaco stations, in which attendants also checked your tires, oil and other fluids) rather than the half-hearted “service” you described, would you still choose to pump your own gas?
Yes.
Not that I believe such a place currently exists in Jersey.
Okay, here’s a response to some statements about McFarlane, some stated quite frequently.
1.) Why are we still talking about a “debate” PAD and Todd had 12 years ago? Talk about beating a dead horse!
So the general consensus is that PAD took the debate seriously and Todd was trying to entertain. While taking such a debate seriously is fair enough, I think we also have to remember this was not about national security or even a debate on a college campus. It was at a comics convention, right? A lot of the people in the audience probably did want to be entertained. So Todd’s response to cater to that audience is just as valid as PAD’s, if not more so, in my opinion. Unless one wants to be an obsessed intellectual about it, I see no reason why after all this time this would still irk people the wrong way.
2.) Why all this venom toward McFarlane’s success? The “selling-out” charge is absolute garbage. PAD ias cheered, and rightfully so, when he takes chances on smaller characters he can play with rather than the “icons”. What people forget is that if all Todd wanted to do was make money he could have kept drawing “Spider-Man” and continued to rake money in and hand over fist. He chose a different path. He took the risk of starting his own company, with his own character. There was no guarantee of success for either. As Liefeld’s “Youngblood”, “Keown’s “Pitt” and most of the other creations by the Image crew have faded, “Spawn” is still here. It is still here through the will and vision of one man, who has written virtually every issue, got that character a movie deal a TV series deal, a toy deal where HE makes the toys and numerous other projects.
I think we should respect that, at least.
“McFarlane batted away any real questions or legitimate discussion with jokes that fell flat or less than stellar responses, while Peter responded with very well thought out answers and comments.”
I’ve still got a scan of that “Hulk vs. Spawn” pinup that George Perez did after the debate. A funny and succinct summary of the whole exchange, and having J.J. Sachs was a bonus. 😉
There ought to be a copy on this site somewhere…
–R.J.
Jerome Maida: So Todd’s response to cater to that audience is just as valid as PAD’s, if not more so, in my opinion.
Luigi Novi: If he wanted to merely entertain
McFarlane’s a sellout because he started his own comic company in order to maintain the rights to and artistic integrity of his own work. Anybody who’s seen the atrocity that is the Spawn movie knows that THAT particular ethic went right out the window as soon as Hollywood money became available.
I also haven’t been able to take the man seriously ever since he sued Palladium when they named their new RPG “Nightspawn.” Even less so when he threw a hissy fit when sued over naming a mass murderer after a real person. The man has no integrity.
-Rex Hondo-
Tim Lynch: I’m from *northern* NJ. 🙂
Luigi Novi: Didn’t know that. Whereabouts, Tim? Hudson County? Bergen? Me, I live in Union City.
Essex County. Montclair, to be specific — which makes it all the more eerie that Lisa’s imminent professorship is at MSU. She’ll be teaching less than 3 miles from the house I grew up in.
(As for the “Jersey” thing — I don’t agree, but if it’s your state you can call it whatever you wanna.)
And for the record, while I’ve had few experiences of needing to buy gas in NJ (I didn’t get my license until after I’d left for college), the ones I’ve had have overall been quick and pain-free. I’m perfectly happy pumping my own gas, but I don’t have the “anything else is devil-spawned horror” attitude towards it that Den seems to.
(Of course, I still can’t tell whether Den’s being entirely serious with all of this NJ-aimed venom. If he is, I think he’s spending way too much energy on it; if he’s taking the piss with all of us, then well played.)
TWL